Rebel FM
Rebel FM Episode 75 - 09/10/10
We're back from PAX to spend some time talking about our experiences in Seattle last week. We talk about Duke Nukem Forever, Bastion, and a ton of others with special guest Ryan O'Donnell from Area 5.
This week's music, in order of appearance:
The Thermals - I Don't Believe You
The Deftones - Sex Tape
[MUSIC] Rebel of Fame episode 75, brought to you by area5.tv and IGN.com. >> Not really, but those two sites that we like, I'm Anthony Guegos with me. Sorry, they're geese, who's looking fucking baffled right now. >> Yeah, I'm not really sure where that came from. >> Sometimes it just happens. >> Sometimes the media training actually comes out. >> We got training? >> Plus, I like to keep Arthur on his toes, keep him guessing. And I sometimes like to play around and see how he reacts. >> Which is why he occasionally puts his finger in my butt. >> Ryan O'Donnell. >> With me as always. >> Also here for finger in the butt, match engine A. >> Hello, hello. >> And then there's also one Tyler Barber. >> Just a one. >> Just a couple guys hanging out, talking about games. >> So we all went to PAX. >> We took for time, we didn't. >> Tyler didn't go. >> Well, okay. >> You're a dick. >> Well, when I said we ought, I was looking at it. >> We're all going to PAX. I'm like, no, we're not. >> [LAUGH] >> Well, everyone except Tyler. >> Everyone cool went to PAX. >> You went to the last fake, the half. >> And one or two people who weren't, honestly, weren't cool, went to PAX? >> That's true, I would say. >> You went to PAX East though, right? >> Correct, he did, but you guys can tell me all about it, man. >> Yeah, I'm excited to hear about it. >> There were games there. >> In general, PAX was a downloadable show for me, yeah, you guys. I saw you mentioned Matt, I wanted you to talk about that game horde that you saw. >> Yes, thank you for not pointing your gun at me anymore, and I think he's been waving around a gun pointing at it people, so I'm glad. >> It's a plastic pellet. >> Oh yeah, but you probably mentioned that, no, it's a nine millimeter. >> It's high points of people, be excited. >> [LAUGH] >> I could use that during a soundtrack. >> So what, which one is called? >> Hoard, hoard, hoard. >> Yeah, I saw that, I wasn't sure what it was about. >> It's actually super cool, it has sort of a tabletop gaming metaphor, think like Warhammer or whatever. But what it actually is, it's up to four player, co-oper versus it has several different modes, and each player plays a dragon. And the goal is to make your horde the largest. So if it's cooperative, then it's all four players trying to make their horde reach a certain amount in a time limit, and then you get gold silver or bronze based off how big your horde is at the end of the game. >> So this is horde meaning pile of gold. >> Pile of gold, yes, H-O-A-R-D, not H-O-R-D-E. So, huh. >> Important distinction, yes. >> Yes, I am hoarding gold, let's put it that way. >> And not to be confused with W-H-O-R-E. >> Yes, which is what happened to me at PAX. And so what actually happens is that there's humans basically that are out there making developing little towns and wizards that are raising wizard towers and stuff like that, and you attack the towns to steal their gold. But if you attack them while they're too small, you don't get a very big reward. If you let them grow up a little bit, then they start sending wagons with gold back and forth, and the bigger the towns are, the bigger the wagons are. But the bigger the towns are, the more defenses they have. So they're really hard to attack. And like I said, wizard towers will pop up, and they have really long range attacks. And if you capture a princess and you bring it back to your horde, and if it can sit there long enough, then I think what happens is the town pays you ransom. Basically, you just get a big bonus. But also if a town gets too big, then they start sending knights after you. And knights after your horde, you have to keep thieves from stealing from your horde. And you know, there's just lots of little things that are all going on at once. It's kind of like you're a single-player actor while there's almost like a real-time strategy game being played by the AI all around you that you're trying to manage. And you know, let it build up big enough that you can keep plundering it, but not let it get too big that you get overwhelmed. It's a PSN only game, right? PSN only for now, yeah. It sounds like a PC game from the '90s or something. It almost does. It kind of looked like it in a way, not in a bad way. I'm just saying. Yeah, exactly, not in a bad way. The graphics were still really nice looking, but it does look like a... It's conceit. Yeah, exactly. The era of sim before, say, the Sims. Like it could be sim dragon. Yeah, exactly, almost. It's really cool because it had, you know, it's all about being the bad guys. It's about burning villages, capturing princesses and all that kind of stuff. And it seemed like, and they had multiplayer modes and all the different multiplayer modes you would expect, like head to head and co-op. And it can be played locally or over the internet. And you can have like two people on one PS3 and two people on another PS3 elsewhere in the world and they can play together, you know? So it seemed really cool to me. Like I got a chance to check it out for a little bit. And I was like, wow, I really want to play more of this. Yeah, actually, it surprised me that that was PSN only. I don't know if like the people at PlayStation have been courting indie developers more or something because I also saw this other game called "Tales from Space About a Blob". And that's another two-player co-op PSN only game. "Tales from Space About a Blob". About a blob. So the whole premise. No, no, no. It's like, you know, there used to be an old comic series called like "Tales from Space" and it kind of looked at "Tales from the Crypt". And so this one's, the premise is like you're a little blob or two, they're experimenting with more co-op than that, but right now it's just two. And you start off as like the size of like probably like a quarter. Right. And so when you play the first levels, the world's really big. And then you kind of, it has a little bit of Katamari in it where you roll over things and you absorb them to make your blob bigger. And so each level you have a target size you're trying to reach so that you can proceed to the next area. And so... God damn it. Slowly over time. Did our chair just break? No, the chair didn't break, my phone just fell down into it because my cat is a whore. Well slowly over time, what happens is you're getting bigger and bigger. So eventually, you know, you're like swallowing people, eventually you're swallowing like cars and city blocks and that sort of stuff. But it isn't just about rolling because that would get kind of boring. So a lot of it's about puzzles and using like shooting maybe things out of your body to like nail things in a distance and then or maybe like you get other abilities for your blob like the ability to temporarily magnetize yourself. So you might have to like jump and then turn on the magnet ability to like stick yourself to a pipe so you could slip along it. You know and it does a lot of play about the fact that you're kind of made of liquidy material. So you might like slip and slide in between like cogs and stuff like that to try and get through. It sounds really similar to this game I played at the Nintendo booth called Fluidity. Yeah, we'll tell me about that because that's pretty much that's pretty much tales about a blob. Yeah, I think so. Oh, it is it's a weird game we were and it's weird because I was just trying to look it up. It's called puddle. There was a game that we covered on co-op live that was a IGF student showcase winner from this last year's GDC that was called puddle and it was just this game that was sort of controlled like local roco where you tilt over yeah tilt the whole world and then you're just this blob of liquid and you sort of fly through a stage and it was only like a quick five level demo is really straightforward and simple. Not much gameplay to it and this game fluidity that we saw at the Nintendo booth of packs had no developer listed on it at all actually and I was trying to find out online just now who it is but it seems like most people are still clueless. I would guess if I had to that it involved some part of the student team I think which I think they were from France or Germany I can't that made this game called puddle one point. Yeah, that made this game puddle and the cool thing about the corner the we wear game fluidity is that it you know it it has the same basic gameplay but then there's all this imagine like a Nintendo platformer level of shit to do layered on top of it. So there's these sort of rainbow drops hidden throughout these kind of wide open stages with many many many different paths and then you basically solve puzzles using physics and you know the motion of this giant blob of fluid to gather these rainbow drops and move forward to new stages. So it's basically a 2D like a giant open stages in a 2D platformer where you're blob of water. I don't know. It's kind of cool. That is really cool. I don't know see I'm really excited that's it's funny because it coming out of packs in general for me the consensus like amongst a lot of people I talked to was every game that people were buzzing about was not like the dragon ages and all that because a lot of us have seen those before and even the people that didn't like even the kids I would talk to kids people my own age that packs that were there you know they would see these games and they were talking about the downloadable ones much more than they were talking about like the bigger games too. I was definitely playing more of those but it could be maybe it's you know laziness built into being a guy who used to get into stuff like this without having to wait in line because of media so I could just like you know talk to PR and we weren't really doing that at this show so most of the big games had giant lines and I ended up not waiting in those lines but you know I could walk up to the indie games with you know not to mention you not to mention you would walk up to them and when you talk to them you got to talk to like the level designer and as I was watching about a blob for instance they were basically using that like a focus testing thing like they they were letting people go up there and the guy was like every like you know every few people it seemed like he wasn't exactly walking them through it because he would just want to see like you know and it was really cool talking to him getting his perspective on that you know because right there and then they're talking and learning about what's wrong with their game you know and it's so cool to talk to someone who knows like every intricacy of that thing going to like a major game booth and having talking to someone like oh actually I don't know I just got hired for this yeah that's the same thing like why we love the IGF so much as you can do the same thing all the developers are right there you can talk to them and like a question that I always ask them is like so if he got a lot of good feedback and they're like yeah this is like having focus testing and QA testing like all at the same time and all we had to do was be in the IGF it's awesome for us yeah we went to play that game Bastian that you know everyone is talking about because well all of us whatever media people were talking about because all these games I didn't get a chance to see because I was running up panels or other things that sucks Bastian was really cool looking yeah I think by it's you know Greg Kessavin from former game swap EIC just joined the team and he was there manning the booth pretty much every time I walk by which is six times throughout former producer on spec ops the line that's and when I talked to him he also told me that you know he just joined the team but the game is kind of like a thing they were he gave me the impression the game is something they were all kind of dreaming up when they were at ELA together right so it's and it's you know the type of game that's I mean I could go into describing it's a sort of isometric isometric perspective action adventure game sort of looks like a Zelda but the graphics I don't know I can't graphically more anime it was instead they almost remind me like a meri masa I was going to say like the vanilla where games I didn't get a good look at it are they 3d or no it's all it's all 2d it's all hand but a hand painted stuff it's 1080p super high right right okay it's gonna be right instead of yeah instead of 3d models yeah and they I mean it looks like I can't be said sort of like a vanilla where game and I think what is really nice about it is a lot of these a lot of indie games that are 2d tend to not have a ton of frames of animation you know they sort of look like maybe they came from you know if they're flash games or converted from flash games you can usually tell sure but where it depends on tweening as opposed to frame by frame animation and this game has just like what's which is where basically the program figures out how to move one thing to another place all right there you go man educated and yeah even little things like there's these I don't know like turrets that drop down onto the stage and it's just that when you kind of arrive the floor forms up in front of you from below and then turrets drop down from above but they don't drop down in one piece they drop down like two or three pieces and like form in front of you before firing there's just lots of little attention pieces of detail in the visuals there's a spider that I sorry go ahead you're okay you're okay it was on you but you're fine now okay I was just what like Anthony's cat was just staring at his foot like it was alive yeah it's because my cat saw the spider on your shoe and now she's after it we're fine you're fine now I hate spiders it'll be my cats on the hunt so okay so anyway it's I'll go ahead Tyler I was gonna say like gameplay wise this is sort of like Zelda link to the past like where you're slashing and it's actually the combat's a lot more like a lot deeper than as Zelda game is because you have like an attack you have arranged attack just like Zelda you could do the things as Zelda I know but then on top of having a shield buck you also have the role and I think that role makes it are we talking about different sort of like shank has a very in-depth combat system yeah kind of you know it's it's much more complex than I think people would expect okay so the key is that it's it's it's item based which is we haven't played enough of it to say that you can unlock like a ton of different combos first you know any single weapon well not unlock you actually purchase a series of weapons like you start with I can't remember some sort of it you know you start with a hammer right the hammer and then you get a repeater and then shortly after that you get like a cross or a bow or crossbow or something like that and then as the demo goes on you make your way to the shops where you can purchase other weapons and upgrades for those weapons in the forms of potions it's all really visual and it's it's made to be plain and simple and you know something like like what we used to play when we were kids yeah but what I think makes the game stand out aside from the visuals which are really striking when you see it is this it's got this outstanding voice over yeah the doesn't hear her voice it's not annoying at all even though it like narrates everything what I think is great is it's not when I saw the game from far away because I watched it for a while before sitting down to actually play it I would have had no idea I mean it really the voice sounds seriously strange juxtaposed against these like really cartoony you know manga-esque visuals and it's great I mean the character starts in bed like Link does in a lot of the Zelda games it's like you know our hero was in bed and then you tap the analog stick and the kid wakes up and the kid woke up and then you know you walk forward the world walked up well you know moved up around him and it's just thought it was really I hated it in Alan Wake when Alan Wake narrated what was going on but in this game I don't know it feels like it's great it feels awesome they did get like a guy with a perfect voice for it and somehow you're right it does work even though it sounds like the voice sounds like it belongs something more in like a like a cheesy samurai game or something like okay it does sort of feel like that like it should have been a samurai type voice or something right but but it totally works with this game yeah the combat I you asked Tyler asked if it felt like Zelda and I think it's you know the each of the different weapons is fun and you add very early on you can kind of choose which weapons you want to be holding so and you have a lot of different choices which is nice because Robin said they were inspired by Bayonetta you know which which is kind of mashy and like you know like your face are there when he said that I call Bayonetta mashy okay let me talk not in terms of not in terms of the actual like combo system but just in terms of like the amount of breakables in the world and the how you can kind of quickly dash around and destroy things to you know gain gold and that sort of stuff this game has that as well where there's barrels and blocks and walls all over the place and you can use this role mechanically so you mean it's a video game it's a video game inspired by old video games that have lots of breakables yeah but I mean much more than many other games like there's they're just like littered everywhere you know you can destroy half of what's on screen in every screen that you that you visit yeah down to like the floor tiles it's like because you see the because the whole thing is basically floating island you know yeah that builds as you move like people can find videos of it all over the place online I guess I don't need to talk about that part of it but like you'll see the tiles come into place and then you'll see the all the buildings in the walls land on the tiles and you can destroy all of those things down to the tile but that role maneuver is not you know it's not permanent there's you know one of the other shops you go to has different abilities you buy saw a jump maneuver and there was a third one but I don't remember what it is but that gets replaced on whatever button like a button does the role so you won't have that you won't be able to rely on that the whole game I guess unless you want to in which case but I'm sure they're gonna use one at a time it was in the A button slot like sort of like the action maneuver slot and all the rest were where the weapons I know at any given time you like those potions that are like modifiers you can only have two of them at any given time right I think that's a and a lot of them like they're really good if it adds like a crit chance it also takes like 50 health off right like you have to kind of pick how you're gonna customize and you will get more of those they said I guess the other thing that is sort of like Bayonetta versus something like Zelda even though this game you know aesthetically sort of it's overhead and looks like a Zelda game maybe is that Zelda combat usually feels fairly deliberate like you're focusing on one enemy at once you know you do a lot of sort at least in the more modern Zelda games you do a lot of dodging first or like waiting for the enemy to attack and then you counter attack whereas this is more at least what we saw there's a bunch of little weak enemies on screen and you kind of slash your way through them mashing across the screen and more constantly spawning in all around you and eventually you know you clear them all out and you're done so it's just it's not quite like fighting in a Zelda game I mean even though it might look like that's what it is yeah it's more about controlling a battlefield than any Zelda game is right like because you can change direction of attack so fast yeah totally but anyway I'm I'm highly looking forward to it this is always talking about combat combined with really shank a few weeks ago it's gonna drive me back into the arms of Ninja Gaiden 2 I could feel it why - why - yeah I thought you would go back to one I mean probably both honestly because I've just been itching for that kind of thing I just didn't get the impression that you like yeah I was gonna say I didn't get the impression either of you like to that much I you know what two is a good but very flawed game with some pretty serious issues but the combat at its most fundamental level is better I guess I sort of disagree but I think the encounters in the first game are better designed I don't know that I need the eviscerate or whatever and also like the the challenges that like the little portal challenges that you go into are just so fucking frantic and and awesome maybe maybe so the first game is I hate myself - you know so there's that the first game is so surprising I think even now if I sat down and played it it holds up really fucking well it's just there's it's so much bigger than you expect in the first level feels so linear when you're going through it and the fact that it opens up and turns out to be this sort of open world-ish experience but the first game is also like it has some pacing problems and also like it just makes you wait for it all the time I guess like there's just so many load screens and so many moments where the game isn't happening and and that is nothing to experience overall than to it has nothing to do with packs and I'm sorry for it's okay no I mean get the two games that Kasaben mentioned in terms of the combat system were Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden I just there you go didn't really find anything ninja and tipped over yeah playing ninja guy and I didn't I just didn't notice the ninja guy didn't I think that narrator though is definitely like it's funny because most people that just walked by and saw it they didn't even get any of the narrator no you didn't get up on they did they did but if you stood in front of it you could hear it but if you were to the sides at all it was like around that area it was too much noise yeah it's a convention is an awful place to display something yeah well and speaking of games that like you really needed to hear also in the packs ten was a solace I didn't I did not try that one it was a it's another digi pin game but it was done it's a sophomore student project so you can actually go and download it for free because since it's a student project or whatever they can't sell it and but it's really cool it's like a you know it's a 2d 2d bullet hell kind of shooter but it has an art style that's a lot more like flow and they even said that that was deliberate you know that they that they were using that art style as inspiration so your ship you know kind of looks like one of the organisms from flow and it looks like you're fighting other organisms from flow and as your ship gains in health it like gains you know like a diaphanous wings and like little tendrils and stuff like that in that kind of art style but the really cool thing about solace is that it's also very music based so as so it auto fires you know as you're holding down as you're holding down the attack button or you can tap it just to you know just a fire however you want but every time you fire it like make some music note and then whenever you destroy enemies you know they make another music note and so the idea is that the soundtrack is dynamically generated while you're playing the game and and you would think that like all right well that has a high probability of to be really cacophonous but it turns out to sound amazing and they have and the stages are based off different emotional states so like the anger stage is all you know kind of rock and metal music and then there's the envy stage and it's all you know the background is all green and everything and it has a much more subdued soundtrack but it's wild I would have made it very cool with people but yeah that's a game that like you look at and you're like oh wow this looks really pretty but it's just a bullet hell shooter you know and and the actually that's why I didn't play it yeah as I saw it and I was like but you put on the headphones and like wow this is really awesome it's like it's just one of those kind of things where the the aural presentation really increases the immersion of the experience you know and they pulled it off extremely well and also it's like it's not just straight up bullet hell like the bullets also move in really interesting patterns that help enhance the music and all that kind of stuff so yeah I think that narrator just talking about sound and stuff you know the narrator and bastions is what really could make it because when I was talking to Gregus I was saying that they wanted to have the narrator kind of adjust based on what you're doing and I kind of got an idea for that like there's like a part in the end of the demo where the level is falling apart you know and I just kept on rolling and rolling and rolling and at some point the narrator was like the world was falling apart around him and he just kept on running because I didn't stop to fight any of the enemies whatsoever and so they want they want to have yeah like deny dynamically changing voice based around like they if they pull it off like that where it's really changing based on what you're you know whatever I in Zelda if you kicked you know kicked a bunch of chickens or something like that all the chickens would come you know rolling down something like that if there was a cool narration for something like that happened and the chickens got extremely angry and link this guy doesn't like the chicks or something I don't know but yeah that game they said it's coming out next year yeah so it's still it's just still weighs off there's a lot of good stuff in the packs the packs 10 like it would take a long you know you could you know do a whole podcast on everyone well another download again it's coming out next year it looked really cool that swarm the one from the next one from Hothead you know I mean they have the second death spank coming out really soon but then they also have swarm which is coming out around the same time as Bastian the funny thing is we saw video that came my friend Tori went with us to TGS like two or three years ago and he has a friend at Hothead so Tori he had taken a like a point and shoot camera with him and he shot some video of an early version of swarm and we put it up on game videos.com it's a long long time it's funny you said because I was talking to the guy that they brought in now for the current version of swarm uh-huh and they said it has changed like four times like completely oh really like it's it's like changed like no longer the same game is there is still the same sort of dynamic as before where you have a bunch of these little critters around sure and they are all ais they can learn things so you teach one to do something and then every one of the other ones learn so now the way it works is that you have you start at any time with 50 these little blue creatures okay and use the stick and you control them all at once so you're they're not really ai driven as much as like you're just moving a blob with the stick okay and you know and so they some of them might get caught on things and trail behind so you're kind of guiding them through like horrific shit you know like saw blades and stuff always just trying to get to the next like egg sack where you can replenish your ranks and so since you're controlling them all you can be like jump jump jump and bring them all together like like you can kind of control how spread out and how and how condensed they are so if you condense them really tight and then have them just sit there and jump over and over again they actually start landing on top of another and you can form a huge column and then run walk really slow with this huge column all balanced to like so that like maybe the top three will reach a platform and the rest will fall to their death like you might do like tilt the column to where it falls right to make like a bridge of the little creatures so a couple of them make it across nice but yeah now it's all about controlling all of them once you still have times where you have to be like how do i get past this oh there's a bombs on the ground everyone interact with the nearest object and they'll all pick up bombs but since they're really dumb they'll also pick up like random friends and then you'll be like throw and they'll just throw all their friends and the bombs right you know it sounds similar to what it was like before i wonder how much the algorithm has changed and if they didn't if there was a little bit more ai before what did what made them decide to axe it and uh yeah i don't know what's happened to that code and if they're gonna use it for anything else because it was really interesting before you teach one guy to jump and then everyone would start to jump if you wanted them to and then you would have one guy jump on top of another guy and then everyone would try to jump on top of you know it would oh so you were basically just like teaching yeah you would teach one how to do something and then everyone else would go and do it and it worked so it worked the same way where there were puzzles where you wanted one to throw another one across the gap and as soon as one did it everyone would just start throwing dudes across the gap yeah uh see that that sounds really cool too yeah now it just sounds like it's a little bit different it's more simplified but still i think that the puzzles will end up being similar to what they have going before right did you guys see uh that microsoft game that's coming out for windows one seven but also for xbox library kid called elo milo i've heard it also called isle milo but when i heard the guy say he said elo milo so that's what i'm going with everyone's calling it like a cute game it's like it's from these guys in sweden but they're developing kind of like a japanese sort of art style to it like you see the characters and they immediately look like they're meant to be plush toys like a hundred percent like even though the japanese dude that was talking to was like don't you think they'd make great plush toys but the whole premise of it is it's kind of like a 3d world like echochrome except uh and the whole point is to reunite elo and milo they start in two different places you can switch back and forth between them and there are certain blocks that they can walk over the edge so it's like if the earth was square they can kind of go up and over onto the other surfaces but along the way they also have to collect these boxes that they can then drop to do things so certain boxes like you might pick it up and when you drop it it turns into three boxes so you might have to like use that to make a bridge to cross a gap and then the other one might have to like come and pick that up and like tilt the world and then use that one where it sends the three and make like a column i know it's really hard to picture but it's like you know on one plane it's a it's a bridge and then on another it's a column right so it's just about these really complex 3d puzzles that yeah they just it's just really beautiful like that that's interesting that's coming to windows phone seven because there was another launching with windows phone seven nice there's another windows phone seven game that made me jealous that i'm probably not going to have a windows phone seven and that's uh full disclosure it's a friend of ours game his name's jake castell he worked at sega during uh he was worked an artist that worked on rez actually but now he's developing his own game and it's kind of a turn-based strategy game that uh is coming out for xbox live arcade pc and windows phone seven and uh actually think it'll work best on windows phone seven because it's a game that would be great to be played as a multiplayer but asynchronously like the way you play i don't know words with friends or scrapple on your on your phone like where they get to it when they get to it exactly you did you play your move and then wait it gets sent across and you know who knows when they're going to send it back because essentially you are you know you control this little squad of samurai's there's a few different there's like a cavalier man uh an archer and a soldier and then like a shogun who's like the the main guy and you kind of move them forward in a turn-based game sort of like in advance wars but if you can imagine a game like that with no grid so you can kind of the the activation area you click on a unit and there's a circle that surrounds them that let you know how far in any distance you can go and you get bonuses um like defense sorry i'm just gonna say it's for people who are familiar with war hammer tabletop or whatever it's a little bit more like that and it's like you just know that you can move x many inches or whatever right okay yeah yeah that makes sense that you get uh defense bonuses for keeping them together in a group and if you know each one of them has certain attacks and there's different spots on the map that you can uh kind of take over to gain resources i mean it's kind of traditional turn-based strategy game but the fact that it's got physics it has physics like you can do an attack and it'll make a unit fly back very far and then beyond that there's uh you know it's just this kind of liquid non gridded movement where units can get kind of clumped up together that makes it feel a little bit different and it was pretty fun and i was wishing that you know i'll buy it on xbox live arcade but i think i'd rather play it on my phone oh it is coming to arcade as well though yeah as far as i know it's going to be xbox live arcade pc and windows phone seven which for people to get windows phone seven they can share the achievements are not shared between the different versions oh really so if you're an achievement whore you could buy the game on both and get the achievement points for both and it would count total towards your gamer scoring there you go what about pc i mean that's not surprising like i don't know like a games for windows live game right has achievements that are separate from in xbox 360 game right although although i did hear people complain that the windows phone seven games are only 200 they're like why do they have to be 200 achievement points like a lot of game of the year additions of games have separate achievements in the original version like they're you can play batman arkham asylum you can there are four different versions that have achievements wow i know that's fucked up there's like the american arkham asylum there's the japanese one which is playable on american consoles that has separate achievements there's the games for windows live version of the original and the game of the year version wow all right that's ridiculous i'm glad i'm not an achievement whore that did you guys see any bigger games i mean arthur saw yeah and played a small indie title that finally found a publisher yeah called duke nukem all right now i can play it but i've been curious to hear more about it uh picture in your mind what a duke nukem game might look like now i got it right here and that's what it was it uses their own engine right is it like a version i guess so that's no i didn't think it was unreal you're the not the first person i thought maybe you point you know i thought maybe it was like an adapted version of the engine from pray or something i don't think it looks very much like any of those engines um it doesn't look like texture-wise it looks like crap it's so it's not stylized at all or no it's not uh i mean there's a goofy sensibility to a lot of it that's very difficult um uh no just visually i don't know much about how the dialogue sounds because my demo didn't have any sound ah that's like that's like at least 50 percent of the different experience come get some yeah those aliens bastards are gonna get their asses whooped but it does start in a typical duke nukem way right isn't it like him getting a blowjob or something no it starts with uh you starting in a locker room or whatever getting a blowjob with with like bodies everywhere and you can go to a toilet and piss and you can draw on a whiteboard and you go out and you'd see these guards getting their asses kicked by by aliens and then you go out to this football field and you're fighting a giant alien which should be very very evocative of the original duke nukem like to or duke nukem 3d it's anybody who played it uh and then you kick this alien's eye through a field goal through goal post and that sounds familiar uh and then that pulls out to a screen like a tv screen and it shows duke holding like an xbox controller and then you see a pair of school girls get up on either side of his lap off their knees so i can't imagine what they were doing uh in that section it's of him ends and you're driving this really poorly controlling truck type thing through kind of an uneventful set piece of falling rocks and people shooting at you and uh so you sound like this is the best game ever it sounds awesome it's just really super boiler play and plays very much on your and whatever nostalgia feelings you may have for duke nukem um there's some really weird like super aggressive depth of field going on all the time like if you focus on anything everything else goes blurry but you watch it go blurry yeah like it's like it pops in boar um that's weird that's something they could fix though the shrink ray is back that's good that was my favorite yeah i was gonna say who knows how much of this stuff will stay the same once gearbox actually i mean they said it's pretty much content complete weird uh it doesn't look like it uh we were playing on the pc version we were playing the pc version with 360 controllers it didn't control well it's pretty stiff um i mean i can see why i got canceled what game has the shape it was in when it got canceled it was nowhere near being ready for release have they made like when it was 3d ram said they made a game since pray they didn't make pray no they just that was just their engine they uh it wasn't their engine it was in tech 4 oh but i thought i i remember seeing 3d realms how were they involved with pray i think they had they owned some rights to it but they didn't develop okay i remember seeing 3d realms name right who someone else had developed pray as far as uh 3d realms originally i do not remember pray i would call up a web browser but i'm afraid it will crash crash garage band so what i don't think it was Raven what did anybody all the time uh i spent a lot of time actually looking over people's shoulders with uh mortal combat i also looked at mortal combat you played it i played it so you was a fighting game person yeah you're a fighting game guy right how does that make you feel because when ryan scott who also plays fighting games played it he said that he was like you know this is like the first mortal combat that might feel like a real fighting game that's what he said but i'm just curious how you um i guess to say that mortal combat one and two weren't real fighting games is like uh snobbish a little bit you know like that doesn't that doesn't okay i know i'm not i'm not saying ryan whatever fuck that i just mean like i played mortal combat two and one in the arcades like a lot and i consider mortal combat two one fighting games for sure i went to arcades all the time when i was a kid or teenager whatever and uh dropped a lot of cash playing those games but a lad well i think i think actually ryan like the first two as well i think he's just saying that this is the first in a long time that feels like it could be like taken seriously by like a tournament circuit normal combat versus dc but maybe he liked it but he thought it was silly like he thought it was like a really fun party game right but ryan is a different idea of party obviously but uh to be honest it's hard to say mrs scott it's his idea of a party i don't i don't know you know exactly what it's gonna feel like when you know sat down and played more than two very very quick rounds with it i just said you plan with jason i played uh scorpion because jason played sub zero and i was like a classic matchup let's do this do you have the move still the same how you did them um no and some of them were different also the you know mortal combat has always had uh punches and kicks like aligned the you know uh 90 degrees off from street fighter and it seemed like they had twisted them back around to be more like street fighter on the controllers that i was playing around uh so that was a little bit weird and yeah some of the moves just felt a little different and fatalities in the demo they were showing it packs were all done no matter who you were playing by pressing down and triangle so so you could see him yeah so you could look at him oh that's nice of him yeah did uh did what like let me ask you this is something like as a person likes fighting games but things like marvels just cap com three and stuff coming out i find it super appealing yeah yeah i'm ready for it i think it's i like i don't understand why what they did something right to appeal to nostalgia in a way that something like duke nukem totally doesn't you know it's i don't i kind of don't care i mean duke nukem's not coming out for a while so any of my comments should be taken with a grain of salt in addition to the normal grain of salt my comments should be taken all the honest moral combat is for me the first game fighting game that i've thought about playing a long time purely mostly out of an astounding effect well and i was looking at it what made me want to play it honestly was just like the the crazy x-review stuff like that's just one that's it's called the x-ray attack yeah oh okay every character has an x-ray attack what did you like breaking bonds yeah imagine a fatality that yeah like chose the bone actually breaking inside the body it's like a pre-fatality fatality with an x-ray vision mode and it looks like super meta in here yeah and it looked like it it happened like whenever you did a particular combo series or something like that or no it just does not it's what special moves it has but they were they were really cool looking i mean it it looks to me like kind of what mortal combat needs to be which is like you know we're gonna make it as ridiculously violent and gory as possible and i kind of like that because you know like why why shy away from that why shy away from your legacy i kind of worried that they're bringing it out though so soon because it almost feels like there's some fighting fatigue starting up again like releasing super street fighter four or yeah releasing street fighter four last year super street fighter four sold way fewer copies um marvers capcom three is everywhere now like Tekken six didn't exactly set the world world on fire well i think super street fighter four didn't sell simply because people just thought that no i already have street fighter four i mean that i think capcom knew that one was going to be a difficult sell but i kind of i mean maybe it's just the people that i hang with but i'm not a fighting game guy but i know so many people who are i feel like it there's been more like a revival than it's been like fatigue happening i mean i would say that right now that i i don't know what capcom expected and i don't really follow numbers but super street fighter four was definitely a game that was targeting this super hardcore straighter players where street fighter four the original was you know targeted at everyone who remember playing i mean i don't think there's been fighting game fatigue amongst hardcore fighting fans for like a decade right there's been like a drought but you're saying it's not like that in a day where me and matt were like getting together if you let's play a fighting game right i disagree i mean i feel like Tekken Tekken five and six didn't make that biggest splash soul caliber series you know three and four didn't really do as much as i'm sure they helped right not not with a wider audience but for hardcore fighting fans like they're still like oh okay soul caliber let's play that you know or i guess i don't know i just played soul caliber three for three hours or four hours at an arcade that was open to any packs attendee who could make it or the first 800 or something like oh the sega party yeah that game works at packs it was pretty awesome that was a hell of a party it was great uh sega through yeah thank you sega but uh Jason cesar and i from area five uh we sat there taking turns yeah we held that machine down i mean other people came up to challenge us there was probably like seven challengers total and you just beat them so bad they'd walk away non i mean Jason jay loved it Jason beat the crap out of a bunch of them he was doing really well and yeah i i can hold my own um but the street fighter four machine which you know they had every street fighter that you know almost every conceivable street fighter going back to many Tekken's the one soul caliber machine there was a bunch of fighting games a blaze blue machine but really yeah i don't know they made blaze blue machine there was a blaze blaze blue machine and uh the street fighter four machine it wasn't super street fighter four it was just street fighter four was the only one of the fighting game machines besides hours which was you know had the three of us around it that one had a crowd of people around it the whole night and i feel like no other if you're a fighting game now you're hoping to do something like street fighter four and i don't know there's something about mortal combat there's something i don't know it feels right like when you play it like controls is just like what you would expect it to be like if it came out i feel like immediately after street uh mortal combat i feel like you're defending some girl that all of us are like wondering why you want to date her like she was a bitch in the past man i feel like i mean i think i think a lot of people would admit that that this is the first mortal combat in a while that they've actually considered playing oh i think that's 100% true i mean i just know at IGN whenever we post a new video people go crazy for it i know it's like if it feels people want this game like it's the street fighter four thing i mean they're like it looks just like street fighter two but with you know more modern with like nicer graphics and it's 3d like you can fight in the acid bath in the pit you know they're all in the old areas are there i don't know it feels cool i don't know why i i don't think i should be as excited about it as i am well you should be excited as excited as you feel i mean if you're interested in game you're interested in the game the developer of prey was human head studios and produced by 3d realms produced the xbox 360 port was developed by venom games fair not capidio um yeah i also saw dragon h2 was there and now i will be honest i did not finish the first dragon h merely because i have not gotten to it i really wanted to see dragon h2 but but the demo in my mind it was uh kind of from a butt kind of boring only because like i have no doubt that that game is going to be rad like i think they're doing some really cool things i think that there are a lot of people who do have a doubt that that yeah i don't i i i think that like from what i was being told about it but i think uh it looked really cool but the demo it was like only the first 10 minutes of the game like starting from the very beginning so it's like between the amounts of dialogue there was between the characters initially i got to kill like three things you know and then the demo was over it was in like 10 minutes i just thought you know it just wasn't the best situation for like a really cool demo i i would have much rather have had hands off and seen like 30 minutes so what do you think of like the actually having seen it in action what do you think of the actual art style and everything this the change up on that i don't remember the first one super well but it doesn't seem that different to me yeah yeah it seems a little grittier uh-huh or angular i mean you're definitely taking place and use maryland manson for the like first trailer or the commercials for the first game like how much more gritti well no but there's like oh hi we're high fantasy and then there's like we are illustrations by brom okay like where it's darker and browner i mean i do like the way the story is being told in this one because the story it's like being told the way that princess bride is that's what they compared it to in the sense that your grip is reading you exactly it is someone telling you a story the whole time so if it starts off at first in your characters in the first five minutes like spoilers this is how the demo started you're you're killing everyone in like one hit and eventually like just when they think you're probably getting bored of it it like stops and the voice breaks and it's like bullshit that's not how it happened and then you find out that yeah you know it's the story being told in every and then you go back and you then you when you play that part again it's like oh this is what i was really supposed to be playing you know it's actually supposed to be kind of challenging um i played bionic commando re-armed to co-op and you loved it i like you loved it crazy amounts terrible really i you know what i don't i don't know i didn't play the first re-armed because this because i never got around to it i did i liked it um it controls so badly tyler shaking um like it's just like it's like throwing it's like being inside of a sack of potatoes trying to fling it around uh and the physics don't seem to work like real physics like swinging it's like you'll you'll swing to the end and then it's like the weight will suddenly shift and you'll lose all momentum and just swing back to the center instead of swinging backwards and it never jumps when you expect it to and the jump controls like shit and but co-op is super uh unentrusive like you can't shoot each other and you just run by each other and you know it the screen zooms way out so people can get shot sounds it sounds sad i bet it's not as bad as you're making it out to be a better fan of bionic ball i was playing it three separate people came up and walked away well if if you've played re-armed though and you like to re-armed it can't control that much different yeah i can't see them changing the jump like them changing the game around a jump could certainly change the way that the game plays sure but i mean it can i mean the guy that i was talking to said that you could play the entire game without jumping if you wanted to in that way there's gonna be a lot of required jumping jumping is not a violent commander thing i won't play this game without jumping that was the whole thing with bionic command and yeah that you couldn't jump because you could shoot and grapple and that was that but uh yeah i it just had a really high attrition rate uh i want to see ghost trick man i forgot to see that while i was there god damn it um that game is awesome you know a game was there that i wanted to try and tried and just walked away like in utter confusion was a world of keflings uh oh oh the sequel to kingdom for keflings which was kind of a cute moderately entertaining game but that is not a game that translates well to a show floor where you're surrounded by people with no one demoing it for you right i didn't get to uh i was really disappointed i stood in line for like 15 minutes and they wouldn't get off the fucking computers i was trying to play torchlight too all right um if you'd showed them a business card they might have kicked someone off well i hate doing that yeah me too like i i walked up with my IGN card saying i would like to set up a time to see this and like no it's cool we'll totally kick someone off one of these computers and i like no yeah they did that for me for tron and there was a family and i was like oh i told them they didn't have to but they just did it well i mean tron was a last second assignment on i'm sorry family you probably don't listen but i'm still sorry but yeah like i don't i feel like that's not cool because yeah you know it's not for it's not for us it's for these games it's for the gamers and i agree and like i'm like i'm not going to just wave my media card and cut in front of people but i was getting kind of frustrated because i get that torchlight is an awesome game and that everybody was really happy to play at co-op but they have four machines there that were all networked together so that you could play for a player co-op and all four of those people were in different areas yeah no one's gonna play no one was playing together i have a i have the business card for their PR person if you wanted to get in touch with them yeah i yeah definitely but you know i'll definitely be playing it when it comes i just wanted to play it while i was it's not coming out for a long time it looks amazing it's like a year walk a year away not far away huh well anyway i stood behind people and watched them play uh years of or three's beast mode for a while which i haven't like looked at much preview coverage of so i'm sort of having either although i totally want it looks rad i knew it existed but i hadn't i didn't had no idea what it was like i mean i guess how robust it was yeah i mean i guess it's like you know left for dead versus mode where you're playing as the boss infected or something like that sort of but it slowly earned the right to spawn this more powerful locust right exactly and i don't know looked awesome i mean gears gears one and two sort of have the same core gameplay you know it's pretty simple or multi sure why changes vane broke right yeah well in this one they just decided hey we're not going to change that stuff and then we're going to add this whole other thing on top of it because you know you have the opportunity to play a so many different beasts i mean everything from takers and those centipede things or milike things were crazy milike dudes that you can just go up and claw enemies with and you know as arthur said and as you gain more whatever the currency is through killing guys you can be some of the bigger enemies like a butcher and i saw a couple guys you know as butchers run up to two cogs behind cover slash like once with their blade and take down both the cogs i mean that that's kind of cool it's a little bit different than before and you know it sounds like the type of mode that maybe i would play because did you where you i don't think anyone here was anybody here really into standard gears multiplayer like i thought it was okay but it wasn't huge into it i was way more into horde but i exactly i like toward these other modes sound like they might be the thing that would make it me want to play that would have been much more into horde if the game managed connectivity more reliably like it took forever for us to always join games with each other here's one too yeah i didn't have that problem until uh until firefight yeah uh well that firefight just had awful net code it did um i also saw the portal to multiplayer demo i purposely did not go see that oh my god multiplayer um you didn't go see multiplayer co-op demo no but i heard now through you guys that it has a hug button or does it has a hug maneuver it does like you had a pressy when you do you first person hug someone uh no uh you initiate your hug and the camera pulls out and you do the sort of like eh want to hug me kind of motion and the other person has to reciprocate otherwise they just sort of turn turn your guy down and your guy looks all sad and ejected so what do you look like are you like a your robots okay it's like abbot and castello robots yeah one is tall and thin and the other is short and fat yeah it's almost like one one looks almost like uh uh like an eye from glados you know only with arms and legs and the other one is arms and legs but he's like more egg shaped and tall and thin that's because they've been they've been built out of existing components the one is actually made of one of those spheres you know it's been crafted out of it and the other one's made out of a turret and all the all the personality that was in that I don't know if you saw the trailer that released that didn't release like there's an off-screen video I think on IGN of the trailer because they didn't release it like dicks uh it'll come out in the next video but all all the personality that was present in that is present in the game and also multiplayer is it feels like the levels are designed to set up slapstick moments of comedy yeah like one of the sections they used to demonstrate how you would have to cooperate is that you know the endless loop that you could set up between portals or you could build up a ridiculous amount of speed that had no real practical purpose so in this like they entered this room and one player stood on this platform and the other player did a portal on top and a portal beneath and they started their little loop and then what are you doing I was closing my ears why what is wrong with you people you're talking about gameplay i'm on a preview blackout of portal to have stand strong leadership twitter followers stand strong with me okay this is ridiculous all right keep going anyway so there's like this slanted platform uh that you're you're supposed to use to try to get across this gap yes so as soon as the the second player is built enough up enough speed the first player is supposed to fire a portal uh onto that platform that's slanted to sort of catapult them up so the first player fires is portal at that platform and the other player catapults out of it and slams straight into a wall wow because it's not tilted enough and then they sort of slide down bugs bunny styling to a pit of acid what happens in the game when one player dies in coop they they they're rebuilt and they run from a spawn point back and in the in the trailer it shows the uh one of the robots getting the other killed and freaking out about it and then and then that robot runs up behind him ready to to go again and that's when it shows the hug hilarious so i i just think it's hilarious and awesome that it does have the hug button thing because it also has wave you can wave at each other right i just remember chanelli at night talking i mean when half-life two episode two came out or no i maybe was one it was episode one one when uh you know Alex was getting scared you know at certain points or where she put her hand up on the glass the first person yeah and you know there's just well it's just like you're this emotion this fucking turret walking around and she's got she's full of emotion right you know you you know at some point you wanted to be able to walk up to her and be like oh it's okay we're gonna be fine you know give her a hug we we've been asking for a hug button half-life for a long time and how portal to i can i can see the abuse come from these things like just like i used to what wasn't like one of the metal of honors like maybe the most recent one where there was like a button to pull out your papers i would just walk around hitting everyone with my papers i could just i could see like the hand on shoulder and half-life i'd be like shoulder was like shoulder zoey zoey exact zoey so anyway and they've also added something called the ping tool that basically allows you to set i just want to go up and slap tower in the face right now because it keeps plugging his ears you just basically like set a marker saying i want you to set a portal here because even if you're talking to people like saying sorry to shoot a portal over there it was on the white wall on the white wall yeah exactly oh there are white walls everything is made of tile shut up so that's it's just a very clever way of addressing it and do each of you control one side of the portal is that no you both have your own pairs of portals okay yep uh one player has a red and orange portal and the other has blue and purple aww i want to be blue and purple but uh yeah it looks really cool and the the co-op is twice as long as the campaign in the first portal and the single player is also twice as long yeah so you're getting four times as much portal and what's wrong with that so good i think it all can't wait i'm sure it's the game of the show but like i guess like a slightly less hardcore version of tiler i'm not watching any more videos yeah you know this video i decided to stop well it's like in the portal like the i saw the gameplay videos and it totally looks like they've stepped up the the quality of the graphics too oh god it looks amazing yeah it's like they were running it on ridiculous pcs obviously but they were so well modeled and animated so it's still sourced but it's just like even tired i mean they just keep adding the source chambers are really detailed you know i thought the art direction in portal one was incredible and you know now that they're actually putting the full budget of whatever valves our team yeah you can you can even just imagine how good it's gonna look and it does look that good even in the original videos they're showing it e3 i mean it was plainly visible just how amazing i mean source is like six years old now but they just keep building onto it and building onto it and building onto it and lighting has always been a strong suit well that some people are just really good at like isn't it the infinity word guys we're always using they well they started with the quake three engine no it's quake three infinity word yes uh if you look at if you look at the credits of uh taking a pep life of call of duty you'll notice that it says uh elements of this engine copyright id quake three is a copyright of id software my cat is grinding her cause straight into my thigh but yeah but they've been using quake three for years you know making that look better and better yeah i mean that part of that explains why modern warfare plays the way it does which is basically like quake with slower jumps um but uh and i mean just their valves visual design has always been so fucking strong that that certainly helps yeah that is my most anticipated game coming out um so we're looking forward to it it comes out soon no it doesn't it comes out like next February maybe well can i uh i want to hit uh segue into another game that i thought it was incredibly visually strong and it was another one of the packs 10 and it was uh hegmani philip amissadon um where these guys are just up like greeks yeah yeah yeah and it was like their presentation was kind of cheesy at their little booth area but the game is like this giant real-time strategy game that has satellite map accuracy of ancient greece and like that's the whole setup and basically you're you're uh you know um uh alexander the great's father philip philip amissadon and uh you can the crazy thing about this game is you can do way way way out and till like everything like the cities become icons and like the the map names are like you know written straight on the on the ground and everything like that and you can zoom all the way down in until you can see like your troops like individual faces and the face and the faces are different and uh it's it reminded when i was looking at the the combat it reminded me a lot of like bungee's myth and that like you had to set things up really accurately you know you had to have your archers on high ground you had to flank with your calvary and uh it was very involved tactical combat in a real-time strategy game only it looked like you could have this sort of real-time strategy thing going on going happening over like a very large area it was kind of you hadn't hit myth yeah that's my favorite bungee game over so i i don't know if there's any videos out there this game right now i there should be because the game you can already buy it like i don't know if it's not really edible yeah it's available it's like 30 bucks and uh it doesn't look like a 30-dollar game it looks like a 60-dollar game it's really graphically impressive yes no monico yes Arthur knows monico i know monico it's uh i've been in communications with the monico designer and he hooked me up up with a build because i did not have a chance to talk with him yeah you're playing it today right swing it yesterday yeah i was uh is that going to be on xbox live he has only determined one platform which is pc yeah he said it might be on one console consoles he didn't say which one i definitely want to play that with we can talk more about that during the break okay he uh that game was in the igf in fact it won the chemis McNally grand prize i was irverly i was an igf judge and i voted for it for the chemis making i like grand prize that game is kind of a whore by yourself it is but it's still it's still fun it's i guess what i the reason i'm mentioning it is it's come a long way since it was in the igf has it really i didn't have a chance to play back in certainly especially like graphically too yeah i mean in there like the lighting model totally the build they had it packs definitely demonstrated that there's a ton of stuff that they haven't shown yet like there are like at least three other character types and there when the original version of it that was not for the final round of the judging but for the initial round there were four character classes and then the second version there was like eight and i can't even say for sure whoa we should back it up real quick only say what type of game it is i don't even honestly okay monico what the fuck it is all right monico is a heist game okay it is a cooperative heist game okay where you each pick a character that has a specific skill none of those skills involve being able to fight you can incapacitate guards with one particular kind of class what type of game is it like overhead first it's overhead it looks like overhead 2d and yeah it's it's very very like a heist game done on the Atari 2600 and with thrown head first through the pac-man championship edition filter it's very retro but very modern looking yeah so the the main differences now from then being you know whatever february march uh is that uh the graphics have changed the lighting is totally different you have every character has like sort of cone of vision kind of like a metal gear sort of thing that is different than the way it was before before is a sort of radius around you and now it's like a cone and the way that the lighting moves all around is totally different i don't know what the tech is but it's it's very interesting and then in addition now the areas that are outside of that cone of vision look like a blueprint so that it kind of plays into that overhead metaphor um you know you'll actually see it written out living room garage whatever bathroom over here and then as you walk into it it becomes that sort of for-bit looking Atari graphics and you can imagine like uh like you're looking down at on top down and where the blueprint or blueprint wall is there's now like just a black line that represents that wall and there'll be like breaks in it that'll be doors or windows and certain characters certain character classes can unlock a locked door really fast and get through it other characters are really good at climbing so they'll climb through a window really fast while other guys have to go through really slow and there's alarms to to uh to disengage before you trip them and so you would go with that so you could go in with like four people and be like i'm gonna be this guy you're gonna be this guy let's try and see if we can pull this high stuff exactly what you're doing exactly yeah but the thing is that back in the older versions of it everyone could do everything like well you just do it almost you just do it slower right everyone has a secondary ability uh every class is a secondary ability like you know someone can use like a smoke bomb to escape some of them are much faster at picking locks yeah so that that is the key thing is that when i was playing it before it seemed like everyone could essentially do everything if you could you could break into a window if you wanted no matter what class you were it's just you know but some classes fast some are slow that's everyone could hack till the way it is no now there are classes that can uh like there's one class that can bomb through walls this is totally new it wasn't in the version i played before the muscle can do that he couldn't be four so what i'm saying is like there are totally different abilities now that really do change the the way you can uh but every class can still do everything well maybe it's just playing single player any class can do everything huh but can you class bomb through a wall i i've been playing by myself and haven't had time to play all of it all was saying is that it seems deeper now when i saw it now i was like this is it wasn't gameplay complete when we saw him he's just tweaking the graphics or something like that there's this is a side note it's really bizarre looking at a pc with four 360 controllers plugged into it but that's probably the best way to play that game that's how we played it for sure yeah um were there any other games from packs that were notable to people right next to Monaco oh by the way game yep if you want to find more about Monaco i think the website is mine.com like an early early spc game right that's the one i think the graphics second life yeah the graphics are pretty crappy but i think it's developer graphics developer art right now um the only john blow put his games in the igf a long time before braid put braid in the igf a long time before it looked like what it looks like david home is that Jonathan blows game it's Chris hecker's game he's the duct tape two game cubes together to make a wee guy okay i built the character or at least was mostly responsible as far as i know for the character creator and spore okay and um have i mean this is going way back but i i hear he has there were two teams in the spore team there was the make it more simi team and there was the make it easier for everyone to play team and chris hecker was the head of the sim team and will write was the head of the make it easier to play team i i could be wrong about all this but basically he was working on spore for a very very long time but so what's the has been working on spy game for or spy party for a long time what's the elevator pitch of spy party all right so there's it's a two player game head to head one person is a sniper that it doesn't even take any skill it's not like you're aiming very hard to hit someone like you can pretty much press left and it'll aim to the next person there's a sniper and then someone else is controlling a spy in the middle of this party with a bunch of NPCs the thing that's interesting about this game is that the person who's playing a spy is trying to blend my yeah mime and ai trying to pretend that they're one just another one of these ais in this room without the person who's playing as the sniper noticing who they are so if they snipe the wrong person do they lose exactly the game is over when the sniper desires and shot one or the other yeah and you either kill the right person or you don't or i guess there's the spy is also trying to do a number of different objectives in the room and i can't remember but you may be able to win that might be a win condition if if uh you know you finish all the things right to pressure the sniper into taking a shot at some point too i'm sure exactly but i mean that's the core the that's it that's the whole game but it was one of the few games uh on the show floor where there was always a crowd of like 10 15 people and every time it's someone the sniper took a shot it didn't matter if what what the outcome was everyone always went oh so it was like you know he showed me when they shot the right guy i noticed oh yeah i was there one or two times when they the right guy done got shot everyone ever was real excited for that yeah totally so i i was impressed because it seems you know it's a it's a really interesting concept trying to mimic an ai totally um and then you know it's just trying to figure out which one is the human it's a weird sort of reverse Turing test yeah exactly but uh i guess what was impressive about it is that despite the sort of ugly developer graphics and this sort of weird premise the crowd was always there and they seem to be super into it and i i mean it's a complex game there was a a tl dr you know too long didn't read manual there was printouts of it there it was like four pages front and back with like tiny text on it telling you all the different things you can do it was like if you want to play this demo you need to read this first there's just like still so despite that so many people watching this game being played i yeah i thought that was pretty awesome that sounds that sounds awesome turns out john blow was sitting right next to him showing off his new game the witness but no one knew that he was doing it because he was just doing it all laptop yeah apparently he just had he just left that shit set up and just it was just sitting there i watched some video of the the witness so did i uncotaku yeah i was bummed i missed it what is the witness i i'm so you had no idea he was showing a game that's uh first-person game set on an island that doesn't have much uh inter i didn't see any sort of wildlife outside of a few trees there's supposed to be like no NPCs or anything right and there are puzzles all around the environment that you can solve and the the core component is discovery and you're supposed to sort of walk around and figure out what you can do uh based and essentially solve as many these puzzles yeah i yeah he's not talking about it at all and like the whole thing is is that from what i read too is that they weren't even that their whole quote unquote showing it at packs was literally just setting up a screen and just sitting it there and just letting people walk up and just happening by it yeah check it out so yeah i didn't actually see all i saw was the videos that steven tiel posted on kataki so i can't say much more about it than that i was just bummed that i'm standing right there for like 20 minutes and i saw john blow sitting there and i didn't even think to go that his game would be there arthur uh you reviewed a game from pax and it and you reviewed it and it went up yesterday oh jesus bress i think we should take a break before we're going to any of that because we're at an hour and 12 so before we get into games we're playing outside of packs matt wanted to talk about comic jumper which is the next game from twisted pixel twisted pixel people that made things like the maw and explosion man yeah exactly and uh something else well comic jumper is definitely more in the vein of explosion man and it's like a pretty it gets it ramps up in difficulty quite right it's very twitchy yeah it's very twitchy but it like it does change things up a little bit like you um so we got a demo of it and like in the first stage they're at most of the time in the first stage anyway it was you know left to right platformer and uh with a lot of melee attacks and eventually you get guns and so you're using combination of guns and melee attacks and uh but there were also scenes that were like it actually had quick timer events it had a scene where uh so you're playing as this comic book character um smiley what is it like smiley something he's basically a happy face on the super hero body super smiley something like that captain smiley captain smiley that's right and captain smiley is basically the worst comic book hero ever and all of his comic books really really suck so he and his friends develop this way so that he can jump into other comic books and mess around with those and like go into and so every time you jump into a different comic book you also jump into a different style so the art totally changes and in some ways the gameplay changes like there was uh another stage that we did we did the japanese style so he jumps into like a classic japanese style comic book from like the 70s or something like that and the art style of it again totally changes he changes his look to look more kind of realistic you know and uh there he is like suddenly floating in space and it's a lot more like a like a bullet hell shooter all of a sudden and uh so it changes up gameplay styles as well and i don't know i was just really impressed by the whole presentation i would like the writing and the dialogue was actually really funny and uh the um i just i enjoyed the different art styles that i saw and there's there's another thing that's kind of kind of interesting uh there's a hub that you launch levels out of mm-hmm and like you can see trophies and achievements and stuff you've collected but also in the very back of this hub area are arcade machines with the maw and explosion man trials wow oh i don't know oh so they can like sell their own games within their game genius isn't it right i didn't know that that's awesome fucking genius yeah uh and i mean it's got the whole twisted pixel humor thing um definitely does i know i wanted to buy explosion man and i didn't you never bought explosion man i didn't either no no no no i meant a physical explosion man doll because they were selling them there they they're really good at creating like things that could be made into sellable crap yeah i actually saw the the explosion man explosion man the explosion man like uh the big they had a guy in a big explosion man suit there i actually saw him at that uh that itoi kung fu game and uh i guess he also did dance central did he so funny so that the what it like kung fu freedom kung fu free something like that the itoi one kung fu redder no god no no it's this is a whole new game it uses the itoi and you play kung and basically it it mapped your body ah yes i saw this game too yeah and uh it was crazy because it actually mapped him in his costume and it worked anyway oh yeah uh comic jumper looks if you're a fan of twisted pixel games it seems like it's gonna be this fun it was just really hard and pretty unforgiving yeah so explosion man yeah true extremely apparently they actually did a an impromptu like a one i don't know if he's impromptu but they did a uh a small concert of the guy singing everybody loves donuts with a ukulele right there on the silver thing awesome it packs dammit um so me and arthur and you guys i assume have been playing games outside of packs i played uh spider man shattered dimensions that just came out this week for what did you think but i played the ds one i did not play the next gen one i have been the current gen i've played yeah i've played the 360 i've seen the 360 one never played it and i've played the we one which is like those ones are platformed the same like they made it on an engine that they could have all the exact same stuff in the we of the ps3 and the 360 one so so the ds one uh yeah they yeah it's like their big thing is they have this engine that can work on all three um but the ds one is completely different it's made by this company called griptonite which is owned by foundation nine um i've heard of them yeah um and griptonite actually makes really pretty good license games like uh like i think i might have reviewed a shrek game they made it 1.2 and that one was okay but this is like this is a second spider man game as far as i know that they've done it's really cool they get they have like a it's really short which you know i'm not like one that would normally complain about like lengths because there's things like like limbo it's like fine it's really short but it's fine like this one the only reason i would complain about the length is that it's a 2d side scrolling kind of like metroid or castlevania style game where you're gaining powers as you go and able to backtrack and find new things except it really doesn't give you like all the powers that make the combat and stuff really cool until right at the end that's like what sucks about it that's what makes it feel too short because you're like just when you're finally like feeling like you can go into combat and pull off really crazy combos and be like really good like it really feels good is like right when it ends no it's not because it's only like a three-hour game it's very short but uh yeah that's if you play it on normal anyways because on normal it actually shows you where to go on the map which is kind of like a bad thing too because you immediately just gravitate right there like it's there's no exploration really to it when you play like that but what it's it's just got like such a really cool combat it might be like the best combat i've ever seen in like a kind of a side-scrolling like DS game like that or even PSP because it's you know a spiderman can dodge he can roll he can web people into the air and juggle them like he would in like a god of war or something like that and then kick them into the ground his moveset is just like really robust um yeah the combat in that game is just really cool plus you play these various spider mens like he plays the amazing spiderman and he can do all the web sweet stuff and then you play as uh spiderman from 2099 and he can glide so there is like small variations in the gameplay you know and you play as the noir spiderman who can't web crawl or wall crawl but they slowly all start to share these abilities with each other um but i am a little sad that they didn't do more with uh the differences between the spider men so you i had this debate whether it was spiderman or spiderman's spiderman's it's spiderman Stanley has has laid it down it is spiderman um but the family know um a thing or two but but yeah it's interesting because you know in the in the 360 we won all that there is actually small differences like the noir one being the most different because when you play the noir spiderman in the 360 one it's like a stealth game like he can't be seen because he dies pretty easy so he's all about like sneaking up and taking guys out like Batman style you know but this one doesn't really do any of that but it just is like a side scrolling like adventure like if you guys can like get a copy on the cheap or something or even if you're like the type of person that will replay something like that like it's really cool like it is like such it would be such a good way to like kill plain right no problem and if you're spiderman fanatic i guess you know there's extra cool things in there like voice actors from all the cartoons do voices in the game it's voice acting on the ds one there is voice acting in the s including narration by Stanley a lot or a little uh little quips and stuff i mean he makes this typical spiderman like ha ha i'm going to make a quip to you and to you and it's actually pretty cleverly written um actually there's something at the very end of the game i don't get to this spoiler where he's talking to other spider-man's and and he's like and he says to them he's like thanks spider spider-man's spider-man spider-man whatever which is funny because that's the exact debate we had whether it was like you know you wouldn't say editors editor-in-chiefs you would say editors-in-chief if there was most of us so we were like spiders man we weren't sure like what it was but spider-man Stanley laid it down say yeah if you're looking for a cool ds game you're going to trip or something that actually to me like was the most appealing of all the versions i saw of that game like i thought it was really cool come right on you also saw a show gun oh yeah so i saw the campaign of that you know if you guys like like i haven't played a total war game since the first show gun there's a show gun too this is like them returning to it finally you know whenever played was medieval right so i tried to play a couple and they're so buggy um they are so really intense still building on their engine you know and it looks really beautiful like when you're in the battles the weather effects and everything are really intense now but uh the cool thing is definitely like the turn-based kind of like uh map of japan where you're doing like all the crazy negotiations and stuff so there are like four types of units i can't remember them off top of my head but there's like basically you're constantly sending out these like hero units to fuck with other empires and to influence them so like you might send this negotiator to try and talk an enemy general into joining you and so they might join you and bring a sizable chunk of the army with you but if you see that that other person has one of those you might send like a priest like a Buddhist priest and send him and he'd basically go and chastise their their hero for leading like a really worldly life and they might dissipate like it's all about basically it has like a lot of chest chest-like elements like you know counter punches that you're always trying to deal with each other tell me about some puku it yeah and so and so that's the other thing so honors like a huge thing obviously in you know feudal japan honors a big thing so you can now tell like your generals to commit seppuku if you want so you know you would think why the fuck would i ever want like my like most powerful general to do that but if you're like if like Ryan is like my best general like never let me down is 100% loyal to me i can see how loyal he is and Ryan targets sir and Ryan commits suicide everyone else would be like his men are so loyal like other because you're trying to you know unite japan so these other feudal areas you might be able to win them over without taking them over because your influence would be like well you know without military taking them over like it by force you might be they'd be like man he anthony is so respected by his by his generals that they will kill themselves on command we should join him so you can win huge respect bonuses can your generals say no yes they can say no and a lot of times if they say no then they go they go ronin you know and they just take a huge chunk of the army and then they just start burning fucking countryside of wherever they are so you know sometimes you do that as a risk like if tyler was like a really unfaithful general and i thought he was on the verge of breaking from me like or like he might get lured away at any moment i could be like kill yourself and then that might result in me taking out tyler gaining respect and never worrying about tyler rebelling or it might result in tyler fucking burning the countryside so it sounds like a combination of romance of the three kingdoms it is kind of and now your generals really matter because in the old one if you lost a general like oh whatever build a new general but in this one generals have skilled trees and once you start going down a tree it locks out the other one so you have to really specialize with the general so you can specialize with a general that's like really good with like archers or you can specialize in general that's really good with cavalry so they matter now they are worth something to you and you can marry them into your family that kind of maybe novenaga's ambition yeah that's what i asked him about it they said you know it is kind of like that and you know you can marry them into your into your family to gain loyalty you can also do other things to gain loyalty like if ryan was the pedameo of another province and i was like dude i think we should be allies and at ryan's like dude you're just gonna attack me when i'm off fighting someone else i could be like no take my son arthur and you can hold him you can hold him captive this just got weird and if i ever go to war with you you can kill arthur so it's like you can you can basically use your children as as like bargaining tools i've gotten arthur in treaties and stuff yeah hostages yeah exactly that's how it makes when you find me exactly so to me it's like that's the cool part right like the seeing the 3d battles and all that that's still cool too i mean obviously the strategy battles are really cool part there's a golly g factor in seeing that kind of shit but just the the pull just the you know the little political like maneuverings like the the scheming part of it really seems like really in medieval i always was just like auto do the battle like i couldn't be bought right a lot of people still auto do the battle because they really just want to sit there and see how they can how they're going to manipulate or be manipulated yeah like that's the cool part of the campaign um there are also sea battles now nice but it's japanese style sea battles so they don't have sails they just kind of row at each other and then fight it sounds like you uh finally wrote your elemental review yeah just so people now i ended up not giving elemental the best score in this game of things i thought that game was fun it had some really cool parts but it's like two weeks out man the game's still pretty busted like it's like a lot of the stability issues have been resolved multiplayer on you the multiplayer when i checked as of when i recorded this a few hours ago it was not um or yesterday it wasn't sorry as of Tuesday it was not so um you know it's it's it's just also that it's just so user unfriendly it is so unapproachable to people that don't play hardcore strategy games a lot like if i always think about situations like if my dad had to play this game at like to save my life that he successfully given a year play a game i don't know i don't know you know it's super un like unfriendly and they're making a tutorial for it which to me says that they know there's a problem you know i just i just think that it's it's a really cool game and i have like no doubt like in a few months it'll be the game that it should have been when it released day one but i kind of feel bad for a few people that bought it initially like that seems kind of fucked up yeah it was like uh you know i've been playing it a lot more too uh and definitely going around like the forums to try to get just some gameplay tips but then i saw a post by the developer and he was um it was a post on the patch that's coming out soon and the next few days and so i was like sitting down just like starting to read the patch list and uh you know like scrolling down and i was like man you know like all right all right you know scrolling scrolling and i was like how long is this fucking list dude so i was scrolling down i was like oh man the number one gameplay tip for elemental is wait two weeks problem yeah and if you want to learn to play it you don't do it in the game or with the instruction booklet you've read forums like that's what sucks videos yeah that's what i that's my my most luck i don't think we're ready for that yet like i don't think every game needs a tutorial like there are certain games that you can get by without a chore but this is not one of this game needs a fucking in-depth tutorial and the campaign is not it because the campaign does not walk you through stuff enough so it rapes you that game is still cool i have started out it has a really good tracker supporting their games but it's just like this and they just had a couple of rough releases they don't have a good tracker for introducing their games not for not not as of late yeah it's too bad um and then arthur played hawks i did play he played the shed of hawks too he played it for like 20 hours more than that jesus christ almost like 24 almost a full day of hawksing wow that's a day you'll never get back that's true that is a day i will never get back uh hawks too is kind of fucked in a lot of ways uh it just doesn't feel like it was designed for single player like or if it was even tested for single player um the the example i have in my review is i start it with uh an anecdote if you will uh and i will i'm flying around this is toward the end of the game and i'm just surrounded by megs and i'm constantly turning and pulling back and bucking all over the place to to avoid missiles because i've long since run out of flares uh and the enemies never seem to run out of missiles and i'm dodging and dodging and trying to get locks and never quite getting it and missing and just not having a lot of luck and i look over on my radar to see where my wingmen are and they're just sort of flying in circles like several kilometers away good look over their geese yeah it's not really doing anything not helping uh and also there's a time limit that i have to kill these guys before my ground forces are completely annihilated and i have to restart from a checkpoint right three waves of planes back uh so then i think well shit i've got to do this in multiplayer like that's the only way i can do this right and co-op so i bring uh one of my bosses ryan get us in and he's kind of enough to play it with me and so we both fly in and start the mission and like i played this game a lot now and i'm using the stick which controls a hell of a lot better than the controller does so eventually i'm at the point where i have like 70 kills and he has seven you see at least a distraction more to himself than to the enemy so again it gets to that wave that i was stuck on in single-player and i'm surrounded by fucking planes again and i fly up and i die and eventually i literally fling my my headphones off of my head and say fuck this game and walk away and i walk over to me and say dude i was just looking at you and i always saw was you and a swarm of planes all around you and nothing near me so that's my experience with hawks or like a 45-minute dog fight where i have only guns and they have missiles and everything else and if i go below a certain height i will get this shit pounded out of me by flat guns but i can't finish that mission until i kill all the planes so i guess i better start shooting wow that's harsh but with the sticks it's actually pretty pretty interesting in spots and fun even it's really hard character or carrier landings can suck my balls because you have to get it a certain speed to open your landing gear and then you have to beat an appropriate angle to touch down without destroying yourself and you have to do it at such a point that you have enough care like runway space to slow down without just flying off the edge and tipping over the edge of the other side of the carrier into the ocean so that's all interesting and like starting up your engines and taxing down the runway and taking off is interesting and refueling is interesting but uh it's just not a very well-made game the audio is mixed terribly you can't hear the dialogue over explosions and sound effects i really hate that again assuming you give a shit because it's the same bullshit tom clancy story that's been in every fucking tom clancy game for the last seven years with the exception of splinter cell conviction which was still weird in its own way uh and yeah it's awesome that you see ghosts like in operations with their little ghost logo and you see a soviet spy that looks an awful lot like kestrel from splinter cell conviction blah blah blah blah blah but hawks too is just not very good and i'm surprised that they made a second one and it was made by a bunch of dudes in Romania so i feel sorry i feel bad for picking on hawks but god damn it as map put it that is a day of my life i will never get back yeah oh well can't win them all did anybody else play games outside of packs i also played some xbox live plants versus zombie yeah it's right you played i forgot that that just came out and got my ass kicked all over the place by dame and halffield because he is too good at plants or zombies and it's been a while for me was he the zombies are the plants both oh i got my ass kicked by both um multi versus multiplayer in plants zombies is interesting i was gonna say i think most people the thing they're worried about the most of it is that you don't have a mouse to drop things or touch me that doesn't matter uh you hold down the right bumper or the right trigger to suck sun towards your cursor and it works super well hmm cool and the grid isn't as wide for the xbox 360 oh really version the grid on the pc's wider like you have more zombie field yeah oh yeah little things but yeah it still sounds like it's really it performs really well too like no matter how many zombies i saw on screen and i saw a lot they have control issues worked out because it always seemed like it would be weird to me yeah to be completely honest i have that game on so many platforms now i just oh yeah i mean i didn't work for the iphone originally when i played it and then i played an iphone i was like oh this works but pop cap seems to be really good it on mac pc iphone and i because yeah i think i be the absolute version of the answers analog shit rules um i finished uh death spank that was fun i'm looking forward to the to the next one thongs of me too even if we can't import our characters can you not really now there's no but you start back at level one in this one yeah it doesn't really matter i mean that game's not so much about like i mean yeah it's not about choices or anything like that i mean the loot stuff is fun but it's like it's kind of just to help you move forward in the game did anybody play the Mass Effect DLC that came out no no not yet apparently this is the only Mass Effect DLC you have to play i thought that's what they said about the last one wasn't that one no the last one was supposed to be pretty good but this one like will stuff that happens in this can go directly into Mass Effect 3 to deal directly with the chick that's on the charts yeah yes okay our emissions that's why i really want to play it is because i was super disappointed with her role in Mass Effect 2 looks like someone's gonna have to get his Mass Effect 2 diss back from Jay Fresh who's downloading them yeah i mean this like this wraps up some of the stuff that happened between the beginning of Mass Effect 2 and the beginning of Mass Effect 2 if that makes any sense to people who have played Mass Effect 2 i know what you're talking there is a gap of time at the beginning of Mass Effect 2 that's what i can say without spoiling it i think no it's been so long no it's been like eight months in game time that's like so long now not enough bold and they're about to release they're about to release a greatest hits version and ps3 owners are gonna get it in a few months why would i spoil i really about to release the greatest hits version yeah with a bunch of DLC why would i spoil the all in majesty of Mass Effect 2 for anyone that might experience it for the first time yeah i was reading on a monster would i be i was reading that it's supposed to have a some really awesome combat and really awesome boss battles yeah i don't know about that all i know is that it it explains the shadowbroker and leora in your relationship in great detail in such a way that it i think that they i have read that they're that data from this is being taken into Mass Effect 2 awesome just tell j fresh to give it to you bitch works 3a you should get it for free he has a copy he loaned it to someone and then he took mine because you know i wasn't playing it but then i made the mistake of starting about two weeks ago i was like i do want to play another mass i want to do Mass Effect 2 again so i started Mass Effect 1 to start a new character that is really yeah playing Mass Effect 2 is starting Mass Effect 1 again yeah i expect you wanted to do a renegade character too so slow i don't know i'm sorry but it is like i love going through the citadel the first time and doing everything in there but in this time i'm just like the load tons of this before i don't want to talk to a v-never again you know i just want to just want to play Mass Effect 2 yeah i just want to play the dragon age tlc uh everybody looks at me well i'm i'm interested because it's supposed to wrap up morgan's storyline and i was like the which the only thread from dragon age that i really gave a shit about and then i read on on a forum that apparently they assume certain decisions that you made right you did not make yeah that that's what i read too i'm but no neither of those dlc's have i played it and both of them must be played by me i mean i haven't played any of the other dragon age dlc and have no desire to but i liked morgan as a character you guys know how to handles it because i got the impression when i heard the presentation nor is it completely that well i got the impression that in two you still get to influence the world before you play like you got to say what major decisions you made in the first game it doesn't import a save but you can be like i chose to do this i chose this and i chose to do this like this or this this or that so that way certain things are in place like so-and-so is i mean i didn't see that i just saw that there is no character importing and direction to which essentially means nothing you did means a fucking thing yeah the wardens are off doing their thing and you're doing your thing like the only reason that mass effect has as much effect on mass effect too as it does is because it just fucking takes literally just takes that character and dumps it into mass effect too with all those decisions which is i need my baggage god damn it yeah exactly i don't like game yeah me too did any of you guys get to see firefall at packs no but i did hear that a lot of people thought that was cool yeah Levi Levi Buchanan and i jan wrote that up and seemed pretty interested in it yeah and unfortunately i didn't get to see it is that the game that has the like logo that looks just like Starcraft yes yes but it's made by some people who made tribes so that's kind of like what got me interested and it's like i heard people telling me it looked like tribes yeah so imagine like a tribes that you could play in first or third person and it's a completely open world as in a giant world and it's massively multi online player you know man just man just was like well now i will google this one was directly ripped off from Starcraft yeah exactly like it but i mean it's i don't know the the little gameplay trailer they showed it seemed pretty fucking it seemed really cool like at first it looked a little mundane like the art style reminds me a lot of a kind of a combination between like borderlands and pre-courtrous or something kind of yeah or even that Monday night combat game yeah it looked like that yeah that's you know that that whole thing that's kind of popular now so it just showed them like rolling up to an area and like throwing like calling in this missile from the sky that basically like drilled into the land for resources and basically while you're doing that like some creatures were trying to come because it was like calling them almost like half-life too in a way you know with the little thumpers right and so at first i was kind of like oh you know this looks just kind of like a mundane shooter and then like after they were done with that this dropship flew down and they went to go get inside the dropship and i was like oh it's kind of interesting the dropship took off and then like you just see the land like further and further go away like from you like below you and it's like this big world opens up where you can just see so far in the distance and like you can see like little guys like you can see dudes in firefights like off in the distance and even some of them start like shoot towards you and uh like after this long flight you land in your home base and uh while you're there you can you go to the shops and like upgrade your jetpack things and you know it's all about the aesthetics of it and while you're there your base gets rated so you got to go and defend your base and shit looks cool. Tribes. Tribes equals boner. Do we want to do letters? I think we should. Do we have the energy to do letters? Or can y'all talk about the meetup? I want to hear about it. Oh there was no real meetup. Yeah there was my jam meetups but the panel went well we should have the audio of that hopefully at some point if you guys want to hear it was our podcast panel that was me and Arthur and then Ryan Scott and Karen True from the Geekbox talking about you know making your own independent podcast. Yeah you forget about the internets Jeff. Oh yeah I forgot that Jeff Green wasn't supposed to be there originally but he joined us which was awesome. Yeah that was that was really cool. I was there. Cool. What was there any highlights? Any fun moments? When Anthony and Arthur showed some photographs of the equipment they used to record this podcast and Karen got grossed out by the amount of dust on the top of the compressor. It's no fucking dusty shit. This does do the sound board too. You can actually see clean spots. Right there where my cup was where there's no more dust. It was awesome. Yeah it was really good. Dude I could construct a whole other human being out of the amount of dead skin cells sitting in this apartment. What would you call it? Sort of exaggerating. Her. Yeah for sure. I'd call her lonely nights. She's paying for it now with her packs plague. She's her and Ryan Scott didn't Purell at all. Yeah actually that's a funny thing if you ever go to packs my one tip that Arthur was right you got a Purell. I remember there was even times that I must have looked like the most OCD freak to people because I would shake someone's hand and without even thinking subconscious they immediately pull up Purell and put on hands and start talking and just rubbing it like right in front of them. I just didn't even think twice about it. It just became like habit. I mean it was just like I would go like there were so many developers and stuff in places where they had the Purell in there. I just thought oh can I use some of that and go sure. Oh see me it wouldn't matter if I so much if I so much as touched the handrail of the escalator I immediately put out my Purell and put on again. Sometimes I would do that three times writing down the same escalator but I you know I'm not fucking sick. That is actually OCD but that's okay. Well I'm not sick. I got so sick. Yeah we made it out without without plague. So you know so Karen and Ryan Scott got sick. Yes. Yes and they were the only ones that I've heard. Ryan is currently bleeding from his eyes. Oh not really but he's gross. Did you give away any new mott? Oh we gave away some of some of the secret sent to them. We did some Oprah-style shit where the first four or five rows had a mod sample underneath their chairs. Exactly. And then I gave a few of the bottles away too to random kids. Did you give a bottle to that guy that had been broken up with? I think we got him a sample but I don't think we got him a bottle. But yeah you know. Why didn't you give me a bottle? Because I was a little friends. What so. How about my girlfriend would like it? So yeah. So just oh and just as a pointer I smelled someone who bought the Amazon stuff. It's the same. So if you want to buy them on and you can't get it from like a manufacturer the stuff on Amazon is legit. The only thing is they've raised the price on Amazon in like the last month from $5 to $15. Really? Yes. Xbox Live gets raised and now I can't take it anymore. So if you're confused of which one it is just look for the one that says customers who bought this also bought Bad Company too. That was an excellent point. I love it. And then hey last question we got an email from a listener who's making like plushy toys of a few different game journals. Were they at PAX with the jar? Did you see the physical ones? I certainly didn't meet them. I messaged that guy saying that they looked great. They looked super. I was like wondering if he was going to have them at PAX. He's like oh I'm not going to PAX. I'm sorry. Oh because I know he wanted to have them. Dude they were super awesome. He's making them of people that we know. You hadn't seen them? Jesus. There's one of you done. There's one of you, Matt, Ryan, Karen and him. All right. All right. This guy. I'm in an effigy. I got to go. Yours is badass. It like shows your brain. I had another girl that wanted to send us plates. All right. More dishes for us to break. So I guess I don't know if I'm quite ready to put up ceremonial plates like on the wall. I don't know. We'll see. I do. It might, it might crowd the tank style. I don't know who knows. All right. We're not doing letters this week. Sorry y'all. Hopefully we'll have a, we'll have the letters on to do with Jeff next week. That's what I'm hoping that we can finally get Jeff Green. I know I'm talking about it right now. Perhaps Jeff on, on Twitter and tell him to be on our fucking podcast. With his Twitter, it's just Jeff's Greek. Yes. So you need to all that message, green speak, all over the place. Remember you can find us on Twitter as well. You can find me at Jeff Money. You can find Arthur AGIS. You can find Tyler at dirty tea, like the drink you can find Matt at Talking Orange, and you can find Ryan O'Donnell. You're just Ryan O'Donnell, right? Yeah, man. Keep it simple. Yeah. You can send us letters to letters@eat-sleep-game.com. Does anybody have anything to add before we go out? This is the newly redesigned Area 5.TV to see all of the videos that Area 5.TV has ever made. Thank you very much. Area 5.TV. Yeah. Yeah. You know tonight. Tonight. Tonight. Tonight. Tonight. Tonight. Tonight. Tonight. Tonight. I'm not alone. The sound of the waves could light. The sound of the waves could light. The sound of the waves could light. Tonight. Tonight. The sound of the waves could light.