Rebel FM
Rebel FM Game Club: The Thing -- Episode 4
It's the final episode of our The Thing playthrough podcast! For this show you should have played through the end of the game (starting from Level Eight).
The next Game Club won't start for two weeks, which should give you plenty of time to find Freedom Force vs. The Third Reich. We'll post shortly on the site how far you need to play for the first episode, but for now just go out and get it on Steam.
(soft music) (soft music) (soft music) (soft music) - Hello, hello, and welcome to Rebel FM Game Club for the thing. - God damn. - Partful. - You're sniffing bats, too. - I, why? - 'Cause I sniffed at the very beginning. Is that why? - Yeah. - Quiet for three seconds. - Oh, whatever. (laughing) - People know I'm getting over his sickness. - We actually, the sniffle songs last time, I forgot to put in the thing outtakes last week, so I put it on the Rebel FM. It's really gonna be boring. They killed Matt before they recorded. (laughing) - Yeah, you can do it with a little bit of sniffling. So we're here to talk about the thing, which was what, levels eight through the ending? - 100. - Eight through the ending. - Yeah, eight through 10. - 10 was the last one. - Yeah, and what is, I may think I guess first of all, sorry. Tyler Barber is with me. - Hey, everyone. - Arthur Geeze. - Oh. - And Matt Changerine. - Hello. - But truly, if you're listening to part four of this, I would assume you know that by now. But maybe you don't. - I don't know. - You just want to jump in right to the ending and see like, you know. - Don't. - What the end of the thing is all about. - Don't shit on ritual. (laughing) - It's like the people who read magazines back to front. - What? - Which is dumb. - Like most people. - It's like accusing the Pope of pedophilia. - Who reads magazines back to front? - I don't know, man. A lot of Japanese people. - You just have most people. - A lot of people. - A lot of people. - Tyler reads them back to front. No, Japanese people do not read their magazines back to front. - They read them front to back. It's just that they go from right to left. - If James, if someone that has worked in the magazine industry is listening to this, write us in and tell us if some of their-- - Why would they know how most people read magazines? - You just want more people for waiting your font preferences. (laughing) - Again, we have people come back with on that. - That still doesn't mean that they're dumb. - Backing me up. - I'm offended by this. - Dude, virus. - Okay. (laughing) So let's start with just some, well, where did we even leave off last time? It starts off, oh. Now I remember. - You start off in an ice cave. - Yeah. - So you start off after you drop down from blowing up the plane. - Okay, you don't actually, what you really do is you start from the last save spot in the last double because there's no fucking save spot in this forest. - Oh, where in the beginning? - Yeah, we didn't talk about that in the last game, though, even though we all played to it. - Just to establish that this is probably going to be a 45 minute bitch session. - But actually, I didn't actually play that part until four days later. My PS3 was on for four days because I couldn't bear to just shut it off and have to go back to the previous save point. I just kept leaning it on. - Oh, that's that's hardcore, dude, that's old school style. - I kept not having time to go back and play it and sorry, finally. - I mean, I at least had a save file where basically all it required me to do at that point was run out. - Yeah, yeah, me too. - Me too, I mean, I had to kill one walker, but honestly, at this point, walkers are easy. - I mean, you still have, first, the load screen before you leave, and then the load screen to get into the cave. And if you're playing on the PS2, like I am, dude, it takes forever to build. - Yeah, it took quite a while on the PS3 to be loading the PS2 game takes a long time. - I guess, it's not bad on 360. - Yeah, it doesn't really make any sense to this part when you think about it, right? You start off in this cave, and there's that elevator that they make you think you're going to use, and you don't. Instead, you're guys just like, you know, if I go up this ridge, there's probably a way to fucking build it. - No, it makes sense that you wouldn't get on the elevator because you were going below the ground to find this complex, to find this. - Right, I mean, it's like the classic, like, you're going to start where you end up, you know? - Yeah. - Eventually come back. - But you go in there specifically to find something though, right? - Research. - Research. - The research they've been doing. - The weapons drive, right? - Yeah, all right. - I know the weapons drive is down there. - At least that's what I gathered. - Yeah, no, that's accurate. - First in the cave, it's like pitch black. It's like super dark unless you have your flashlight, and you have to turn on the lights, and that's when that. - The funny thing is, I never really had to turn on my lights because I'm playing on my Dell monitor in my room, which doesn't have a very high contrast ratio. So it's almost like the brightness is constantly turned up in-game, so it wasn't that big a deal. - See, for me, I never even had that walker come out 'cause I knew he would. So I just went immediately up the ramp. - Oh, you just bypassed ammo and stuff. - But there is, so yeah, so that's what I did at first. But then when I realized that I just could not make it through those machine guns that are coming up, like without some health pecs, yes. - And then I went back, restarted the whole level so that I could just go in there and get those health pecs. - This fucking section, so. - And I remember I went in there and that guy, the first time that I went in there, well first of all, I died twice in this starting area with the two sheds and the walkers or whatever. I can't even remember why I died, I just remember I did. And then you get to the ramps and you jump down out of the vent and there's a guy right there who's like, "Give me a gun!" Like running upstairs. - Running from two guys with shotguns. - And here I am like running after him, like I'm trying to give you a gun, slow down. I'm trying to give you a gun, fucker. - If you hit the button fast enough, you can give him a gun, but he doesn't stop. He runs all the way to the top of the area. - And if you chase him, you're gonna just run through the steam that'll murder you. - I had to go up to the gangway up there to get him to follow me. - I had to go all the way up. Like one time what happened to me is the two soldiers were kind of like, "I'll just give him a gun later." And I killed both of the soldiers and then I got up there and the medic turned into a weapon. - He turns, he turns immediately. Yeah, I've never had him not turned. - Dude, yeah, but no, I've never had. Dude, he's never turned from me. - Yeah, he turned once for me and then I caught him in time and he never turned out the same thing. - I know the near the ending of the game, this actually happens more and more, that there are a couple of guys that will randomly turn. - Yeah, well it's not like this. - If he makes it up there, he'll turn. I notice every time, if he makes it to the top. - He made it there every time I played. He never turned. - If you don't give him a weapon. - No, I gave him a weapon and he's never turned. - Right, that's what he's saying. He's saying if he makes it up there without ever getting a weapon, he'll turn. - Yeah, he'll turn. At the very top. Or at least that's what it was for me. - That would make sense because I never gave him a weapon. He always reached the top. I go up there, he'd turn every time. - Yeah, I gave him like the time that I didn't get up there and he was and I didn't give him a weapon and I didn't get up there in time. He turned into a guy, I didn't even think about it being based on whether or not he had a weapon 'cause the second time I got him a weapon in time and I gave him a shotgun 'cause I remembered last week when we talked about it and Arthur is my holy engineer who could do no-- - I mean, that totally makes sense to me that it would be something like such an arbitrary trigger whether or not-- - I think there's a logic to it because otherwise he'll get attacked by all those things that are and get infected. - Right, immediately. - Yeah. - And I figured it out because I died so many fucking times in this section and I don't know why but this playthrough, more than any of my other playthroughs, my fire button would not work. - We mentioned that before that happened a few couple times. - That happened to me over and over again. - Dude, I couldn't believe how much my weapon wasn't firing when I would-- - I know, I know, that's one of those bugs where you just can't believe it's actually in the game. - Well, yeah, I can't believe it's in this game. - Well, you're like screaming. - Yeah, but I mean-- - X butt down! - Yeah, but I mean like what I mean is like every time it happens, it's a surprise. You know, it's not like after a while I'm expecting it to happen. - It's true, I mean, when I fire my shotgun though, that's why I mash the button over and over again. So when I shoot my shotgun, it's always like, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. I'll shoot again five times. - There's always at least one extra shot. - Yeah. - Which is better than the alternative of missing a shot and not killing him in the game east. - Yeah, this part where you get up there and you get that guy and then they make you like, because that guy lures you up there, they make you think that you need to go into that vent. - Yeah. - And that vent's-- - We try to do it. - And the vent's nothing. - It just drops you right back down to where you were-- - At the end of the horrible, horrible part. - And if you take, and if you go down, if you go through that vent, which I did and I picked up the gun from the corpses in there and then you drop down, you take damage. - You take damage, yeah, when you drop. - And I only had one health kit when I'd gotten in here, by the way. That was one of the reasons why I died and I went back and then I went in the shed and got the extra health kits in the shed, but still it was like, what the hell? - Yeah. - And then going down this part. - Yeah, well, so you-- - It's an even bigger kick in the box. - You go up there, you get him, either you go in the tunnel or you don't, and then guys come around the thing and so you need to take them out. - Yeah, I used a grenade launcher for that because if they get around the corner, they ended up shooting me at least once and I was like, that cannot happen 'cause this shotgun takes off like a third of health. - I totally didn't, it totally wasn't an issue for me. Like as they were coming up the stairs, I just, I actually used R1 and zoomed in with and went into first person with my MP5 and the MP5 headshot just jibs their head. - It's true. - You get every headshot jibs their head. - Did you, how did you deal with the machine gun turrets? Those are the ones that I ended up just using a grenade launcher to lob grenades over. - Grenade launcher. - Some of them were easy though because they had like barrels underneath them and you could just shoot the barrels. - Yeah, you could just shoot the barrel. - But yeah, and there are a few too where you can shoot the one on the level below you and it's on the same side as you, you look over on the rail and-- - I didn't really. - You can get a really close shot with like a pistol and take it out really. - But that's the part that fucked me up though as you get towards the bottom of this descending ramp. - And then you get to that part where there's a turret in front of you that you need to lob grenades at but there's these bodies that are like non-stop producing things. I don't think they stop, do they? - No, they still never stop. - You encounter some bodies that stop but there's one in particular that's down the hall from the door you need to get in a corner. - In a corner. - That has the two turrets in it that you need to just walk into. And basically I just kept walking into that room and getting wasted because it never occurred to me that if I only walked in like a foot and went to the left that it wouldn't hit me. But for some reason their targeting sensors weren't accurate at 15 feet and were at 14. - Right. Oh, it sucked to me that I had my medic and I got him down all the whole spiral ramp thing all the way down to the bottom. We were both fine. And then I walk into this room and I'm getting hammered on by turrets so I run immediately across into the security room 'cause I'm like, well, there's the freaking door. - And they shoot you through the window. - And I'm like, finally, a save point. And I run in there and he doesn't follow me in there. He just stands out there shooting the turret and of course he dies. And I reloaded once, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna try this once more and try to keep him alive. And he did the same thing. And I tried having him stand by the door but then he wouldn't come in far enough and the door would stay open and those freaking head crabs kept coming down the stairs at him and he ran out of ammo and died. And I'm like, well, I don't know what to do here, so. - Dude, it was so frustrating for me to die. Like, one frustration I ran into a bunch at times was like, for this area, I would clear out that charging bull thing. I don't know, I call it a bull. - It's the pinky demon. - Yeah, and my medic would be behind me getting hit by the damn steam the whole time and I'm like trying to scoot up for him to scoot up and I was just like, oh my God, steam, really? - It's like bad, bad level design, bad collision, bad AI and just like shitty rules of engagement that don't make any sense come by to create the perfect bad level. - Once you get into this hallway and there's the sets of two turrets with the switches to turn them off, I don't know about you guys, but that first one where you get into the save room, like for me, I didn't, was there a way, so there was a way to walk in that room and not be shot? 'Cause for me, I just was like, I guess I'm gonna take it on the chin and took it as I ran across the hallway. - Oh, yeah, yeah, well, I just took it on the chin and ran across the hallway, but I did figure out the hard way that if you run in there and you stand right next to the switch, they wouldn't shoot at you. But if I was like backed up from the switch a little bit or maybe next to the shelves, next to the switch, you just get pummeled. - Yeah, there's a lot of that going around on this level. - Yeah, yeah, there is. - Including the next to last one. - Yeah, I was gonna say, so these next few rooms where it's a sets of two turrets, how did you guys get through it? Like, there's the one with the boxes that I was able to crouch into and reach the boxes, but even then, I still was lobbing grenades at 'em. But sometimes they would take like four and five grenades. Like it didn't make any sense to me. - I stayed far back and used the shotgun, usually. - Just aiming yourself? - Yeah, yeah, I would use the MP5. - Or the MP5. - Well, what I did is like any room that had, any hallway that had a door in it, I just ran straight for the door to hit the switch and turn 'em off. But, there was a room, I don't know if it was the second one or the third one or whatever, where there was like four or five of them in there? - That's the last room of the level. - That's the last room of the level, okay. - Yeah, that one was killed there. - 'Cause I blew up, well, yeah, we're not there yet, but all these turrets, like it was so dumb, right? The MP5 would take out these turrets in like one burst, but then the grenade launcher, you could lob like five, and if it wasn't like dead on, it wouldn't blow up. - The sniper rifle, you could use like-- - The sniper rifle, I used like four clips. - I don't know, it's like the sniper rifle, you can see things that you can't hit. Like it's like the range isn't actually as far as you can see. - The range is, I mean, I've shot guys from really far away. - This was easily within range, it just wasn't doing anything. - Yeah, like the sniper rifle doesn't seem to damage those things, I don't know why. - This section made me come up with a phrase, "Dude, turrets give me turrets." (laughing) That's cussing so much, man. - Yeah, honestly, I did have the thoughts where I was like, "Man, this might be the first game I don't beat." (laughing) - I definitely died on that beginning like catwalk point, like five or six times. - Which to be fair, this is also the first game that like I told Arthur, like Arthur was like probably like 15 minutes from the end, but as you know, like the 15 minutes right before the last boss are kind of kicking the balls. So Arthur just watched me do it. And I was like, "Dude, don't even do it yourself." 'Cause I was like, "That is like an unnecessary..." (laughing) - This is after I counseled Anthony on the next to last boss, I'm like, "Really, you don't need to be doing what you're doing." - But yeah, so I forget what comes right after you get through these rooms with all the turrets immediately. - You go through and then you're in the next level, which is the Mexican standoff. - Yeah. - Oh, yeah, these two guys, I ended up arming the one who turned. Like does one always turn for you? - Yes. - Because one in particular turns, only one of them is infected. - Yeah, so I gave the gun to the one who turned on it today. - The funny thing was just like the one guy, the one guy turned and then I reloaded the level again. 'Cause I gave him the gun too. And I reloaded the level and I came back in and I tried to test him, didn't work. - See, I tested him and he did turn. - Really? - Yeah. - See, I guess that's what you're supposed to do. Like you go through-- I didn't have a test. - There's a test thing on the other side of the desk. - Oh. - But yeah, I tested the guy who turned and like nothing. - I guess I should have known, right? Because it's obvious that the guy that's gonna be infected is the one in the cutscene that's like the other guy's like, what were you doing down there by yourself? - Well, they're both definite like hostile jerks to each other. - It's true, but the one guy's hostile because he's like, you were with someone, but the two of you, now you're coming back by yourself. - Yeah. - And it's like, what's up with that? - Dude, my situation, I handled it once. You know, I didn't reload or anything. I think it's kind of hilarious. - You just killed someone? - Like, I saw this situation. I didn't know what the hell to do. And I was like, well, I never used my taser, so I just took out my taser and tased both of the guys. (laughing) And then the other one turned after I tased them and I was like, well, I guess you're the one that's gonna die. And then the other guy didn't trust me, so I just tested myself and he was like, well, you're cool. - Yeah, that guy's actually really untrusting. 'Cause yeah, 'cause even when I gave him a gun and all my ammo, it only brought him up to like, just within the range of when he would follow me. Like an MP5. - Okay, 'cause the kind of weapon you give them determines how much trust. - Yeah, I mean, I gave him MP5 and a bunch of ammo, but it only brought him up to like, just like where he was doing what I said. - Apparently giving him the sniper rifle makes them trust you more than any other gun. - Weird. See, that happened to me too. Like I gave, he barely got his trust up. And I think for me, it was because when the other guy turned, he shot the walker and then I flamed the floor. And I think he was standing a little bit too close to the guy hurt by the flames. - You know what happened to me? After I tased him, it took me a little time to take down the walker and at that, he was just about to turn on me. He was like, "Time's up for you, buddy." - But you killed the walker. - But I killed the walker and he's like, "Yeah." - Did the test on myself in time. - Right. - But he said the line, "Time's up for you, buddy." He went to the menu real quick, tested myself. (laughing) - Wait. (laughing) Okay, we're good. - Yeah, so you get your little engineer and you run up into the next room where there's that box, which is funny, huh? 'Cause you're doing the power for the box and then it's just like, that is like the one instance in this game where there was just a very clear monster closet. Like that walker burst through the wall and you look inside the room where it bursted out and it's just a chunk carved out in a cave. - Not only this, but I looked at the wall before anything jumped out and I was like, "Wow, I can see every little crease in the wall where it's filled to where it's gonna break." (laughing) - That's like the dangers of asbestos and thing form. It wasn't a thing. - I didn't realize that, weird. - Remind me of like when I was a kid growing up watching cartoons, it always used to frustrate me that the things animated, you could always tell because you know they were done. - Yeah, you could tell they were all animated to move. - Yeah, the background's all painted and stuff. - Right. - You should be like, why don't they blend it? - Was this, was it right after here where you get into the room where the guy locks you in with the gas or what's the thing? - That's a little bit later, we're not there yet. This is the one where after you, if you want to, you can read all the PCs and it talks about how people are slowly losing their shit. - Yeah, all right. - And then they bust through that wall. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You have to activate the door for the uninfected guy to go through. - Yeah, you have to like watch on the camera to type it, right? - Which failed on me, by the way. - What do you mean? - Like he ran away, I opened the door, I saw the camera, he ran toward the door and the camera cut out just as he was like running inside. And I was like waiting, waiting, waiting. Like, okay, what's going on? I started to run back and then he runs back through the door and he's like, what the hell, I gave you one simple job to do, you know? - Way to blow it. - And then I was like, okay, we'll go do it again. He's like looking at me like, no. - He will go eventually if not. - The thing is is, but I walk back over there, I walk back, I'm like pushing him. I'm like, I'm nudging him like, oh, you fucker. And then like, I walked back to the console. I seriously, for probably 10 minutes, I was walking around the area, I couldn't trigger him to go again, I had to reload. - Oh, well, you could do us kill yourself and restart the level from that point, I guess. - Well, I mean, yeah, that's what I did, actually. - But that guy, once he goes through, like it doesn't make any sense, right? He gets through the room and there's an explosion. I have no idea what causes that. - Things like burst through, like that's what causes him. - But what things burst through? And I think he has a gun and there are barrels in there. - The thing for me though was weird was that like, yeah, you go through and then there's like those, it's another time where it's like the second time you ever see it, those like ground pods that spawn thing beasts. - That you can shoot and stop. - Yeah, so I did that and then inside that room, that's just to the right of where you entered. - You weren't hit and he's hurt. - He's in there and he turned. Yeah, that pissed me off too. I was like, why did he survive said explosion just to turn and be in that room? Cause I was like, are you in here, buddy, hoo. - Yeah, you know, I saw that guy, but is it him because you meet someone else later that looks a lot like him. - Not him. - And I thought maybe-- - Cause it's not the same name, the two. - So yeah, so he goes in there and turns and I got my shotgun back from that bastard and loaded up on the ammo that was in that room. - Such as it was. And then you go into the next room, which is-- - A shooting range. This is the shooting range now. - Oh, right, a shooting range, yeah. - Yeah, so this is where-- - Kind of ammo. - If you're looking, like you'll kill some guards and then there's a-- - And then there's an engineer up in the top part, yeah. And so you grab your second engineer and go and jigger the door to get you into the, and he takes you into the room where he's like, "Here, go this way." And he's the one that-- - No, no, it's not. - No? - No? - No. - No. - He might. - I think that is actually after the part we're thinking of. - I don't know. - Yeah, cause we're, yeah. Okay, so-- - Cause there's two exits off of right when you enter the level. - Yes. - There's the way that we were talking about first and then there's another way that goes down a long hallway. And as you go down the hallway, guards are continuously spawning behind you. There's like five waves of guards or something until you get into that room. - So which part is it? Is it that when we go through this door, it's the shooting range? No, it's not. - No, the shooting range is later. - It's later. So this is the part where now you go through this door and a guy's like, "Hey, come with me this way." - Or he, like he's freaking out because he can't fix such and such. Like he's a little, maybe you can figure it out cause I can't-- - Check out the terminal. - Yeah. - He says, "Go into this room and check it out." And you go into the room and the door slams shut and starts going with gas. - And you check the terminal and it says breathe deep. - This took me three tries actually because of the box that you have to fix. - It is really good. - It doesn't spark either. It's not like sparking really bright to where you notice it. - Yeah, I'll find it. - So-- - Yeah, I fixed the box but I didn't realize that that unlocked the door. I thought it was supposed to make the gas turn off. - Oh no, it's-- - It doesn't unlock the door. - Right, it activates the terminal. - You're right, it activates the terminal. - It activates the terminal. - Yeah, and then you have to use the turret to shoot the gas there. - Yeah, and see like, I thought it was supposed to just turn the gas off and I'm like running around, I'm like, what do I do? - I'm running around, yeah. - I'm running around, yeah. - See, there's some things in this game like this, like I did first time, like without, oh nice. - Well, I mean that box takes forever to fix too, so by the time you figure it out, if you aren't like Johnny on the spot with fixing it and then shooting the turret immediately, you're going to die. - The first time I did it, it took me 20 seconds to find the box and then I'm fixing the box and it's like, the time is ticking down and it's like, oh my God, am I gonna make it, am I gonna make it? And he finally diffuses it at 1.7, I'm like, sweet. And then it kinda reminds me of Johnny because I didn't realize that I had to hit that tank until it was like a try. - Yeah, I mean that part, that part is kind of dumb, it's like so arbitrary 'cause it's not like you go out and the guy's there now or something like that, like you don't get revenge on that medic, you know. - Well, right. - It's kind of, it's kind of chasing. - It's kind of just in Demingo a whole game about how impersonal it is to the character. - Yeah. - You know, everything that happens in this game just feels kind of artifice outside of what your main task is. - And it never properly explains that you're immune. Like it's just like you could totally miss that the reason that you'd never get infected is because you have a cellular anomaly that makes you immune, which is dumb. - Whatever, we should all turn at the end. - True. - But yeah, so now you get out of this room. - But you never get set on fire and act all cool. - And now here's where you go outside and now that other door in the first room opens up and guards come out. - Well, now you see a cutscene triggers as you walk into the room. - Right, where they're coming out. - And then you go into that red hallway or whatever. - Right. And then, so now we're going into the area with the shooting range, finally. Okay. - After saving, God willing. - Yeah, the shooting range for some reason, I thought I remember a ton of guys there, but it's just like two. - Two, yeah. Well, and after saving God willing, like after the last stage, basically every time I did anything of note or cleared out of room, no matter how far it was, I would run back and say. - Because they're just giant stretches where there are no saves and at all. - Yeah. And that, and I, and like as I was doing this, I was like, I used to do this in a lot of games. I remember a lot of games where there were save points where I would go like halfway or three quarters of the way through the level and run all the way back to the beginning to save. I mean, it was just a common gameplay pack. - Yeah, and that fucking sucked. - Yeah, it's just like a battle of attrition of your time. - Yeah, and that's what this game is because if you do it, if everything you do, you do correctly the first time, this game would be like an hour and a half. - But see, that's the way that's, that's what it used to mean when a game was challenging. - Yeah. - Like it used to be like, can you get through this section to the next save point without dying? And it wasn't until later, I think, that game designers that weren't PC designers 'cause they'd been used to quick save for a long time. It wasn't until later that game designers realized that people will run all the way back to the save point. They're not gonna, they're not gonna instigate in that challenge unless they have a particular hardcore view of their game playing Skizzles. - And unfortunately, I think that there's still some people that are sort of stuck in the past as far as games saves go. And then there's like something like Dead Rising a few years ago that still did it. - Yeah, yeah. - And then you had the people upset about like Bioshock, like the way you could just always, you know, come back to-- - Oh, because of the, the Vita Chamber. - Yeah, yeah, or, you know, games like this, Prince of Persia's, you know. - I think it's just indicative that, like what I was saying to Anthony is that I think it's that game mechanic, like hardware has advanced to the point where mechanics can be much more complicated, as opposed to a game that has relatively simple systems parts to it. Like this does, or like games from the last generation of the generations before, whereas games have much more complex systems now, so they don't need to rely so much on the trial by death and trial by anger stuff. - So-- - So when they do, we just see that shit and get really angry about it. - So you kill the two dudes at the firing range, go up and get the engineer from the observation room. He unlocks the door into what? I can't remember what-- - It's a savoring amount. - It's like a weapons development room, like there's like broken gun on the table and there are jars in the corner with things. - That's right, and you get a ton of ammo and key, the key, the key to the boss. - And then right across in the firing range, there's a bunch of shotgun or a bunch of grenades. - And it looked like there were, and is that the same, yeah, that's the same room where it looked like there was some kind of gun that belonged on maybe battleship over in the corner. - Yeah, like let me take this bitch with me. - Yeah. - Yeah, and so now you go through this-- - It's trolling. - That shit to a wheelbarrow. - Now you go back out and you don't really know that a boss is coming unless you read a fact. - And I assume-- - Nope. - So you roll so-- - But I did say-- - Thankfully you save, yeah. Yeah, so then you roll through and you kill those two guys. And then what I did is I didn't tell my guy to wait for me. I had him sitting right outside the door when I finally beat the boss, mind you, 'cause it took me like eight tries to beat the boss. - Well no, let's talk about that before we talk about your war crimes. - So yeah, so what'd you guys think of this boss? How cool was that? (laughing) - How did you say the easiest boss in the game? - Oh man, totally. - It's totally the easiest boss in the game. And the reason why-- - How did you guys beat it? How did you beat it? - The reason why-- - Circle strafe the entire time. I could not, no, I got hit all the time. - I don't either. - So you're using a different control scheme than we are, I think. - The reason why it was, I got really good at circle strafing after a while. I got good at using R2 and L2 to strafe. But the reason why this was the easiest boss ever, 'cause I went in once, I died and then I read the fact on how to beat it. - And it tells you you just run up to him. - Yeah, you-- - And when you run up to him, he can't swing, so he can't hurt you. - Yeah. - So if you stand against him, point blank, he cannot attack. - Meaning why you just unload the fucking shotgun into him. - Why were you like point blank strafe? - I was pretty much under him-- - Yeah, that's why. - Running in circles. - So he can't swing. - I did get hit quite a bit though. - Well, see, he can't swing. - I must've been running on-- - Point blank. - Yeah, I went right, I actually ducked and went directly underneath him. - That's what I started up with. - The idea of his part is if you drop a grenade and go to the back of the room, because there are a bunch of grenade boxes that will burst into flames. - Right, so for me all I did is I'd drop a flame grenade back up to the door that I entered in, and then when that didn't kill him, the first time ran back to him crouch, dropped the flame grenade, used the health back, backed up again. It's like such a pointless boss fight, it's horrible. - And then there's the walker in the corner that you can, you can actually leave alone if you're careful. - Right, I actually killed him before going into-- - Like I opened the door and then I shot him and he ran at me, and then I killed him before him. - If you nudge your guy into the door, he'll open it, and you can see the walker in the distance. - Yeah, so I just broke the glass with the range. - Whoa, you know what happened to me? When I was fighting the boss and I got him into the red, and so I put him on fire, and he started going eight shit and broke the test tube with the guy. - Yeah, see, I think that's supposed to provide an additional challenge. - I have actually-- - I know, it did, I was like, holy shit. - I have nailed like my guy didn't come through with me, he was on the other side of the door and because the collision in this game is fucking testicles, he got hit by a grenade blast on the other side of the wall, and one time it killed him and another time he just changed. - Oh wow, he just changes into a thing, and I can see his mutant arm poking through the collision of the wall. - Yeah, so that boss sucked balls. Tyler's the only one who beat him the right way, quote unquote, all of us use the fact way, and-- - Fact this game. - And so yeah, so then immediately the door opens, and you know how there's the guys that roll in trying to get you immediately? - I like this game. - You know the guys that roll in to try and kill you right away with it. - So the way that I did this is I told my guy to wait, not in the sub room for this, but in the hallway, and he took care of business. - Yeah, whereas my guy waited right in the anti-room, and then as soon as the door opened, I knew there'd be guys there, so I just started firing, shot through my guy, killed him, and killed the two guards. - You killed your guy before you killed any guards too. - I had to get through him first. - My guy must have took care of business 'cause I didn't even know there were guys after the boss. - Yeah, there was a couple of-- - You got two guys rushing immediately. - I mean, it took me five or six tries to kill this boss. - Yeah, me too. - And one of the times I beat him, and then the guys came through and just shotgun me. - How about this next awesome part? Now that you've killed the thing-- - Oh man, this next class is so awesome. - Now you save, and now it's a-- - And then everything-- - I get to work your way out. - Yeah, the objective is escape. - But why does everything explode? I mean, like, there's no reason for it. - I know it's like, it's just happened. - It just happens. - It's somehow connected to the self-destruct button of the base. - Yeah, it was really, like, I didn't understand it. And I was like, wait, did I plan a bomb or something at some point that I don't remember planting? Like, you know. - No, he didn't, man. - No, it just blew up. - And not only that, but it only blows up when you get close to it. - Yeah, that was the, like, when you head back and you get, like, the-- - There's the first door. - The rush back, well, the first door blows you back. - And you can't avoid taking damage from it, no matter what you do. - Welcome to the first level in the game that has no save spot at all. - Yeah, this whole part. - And then, like, you're on your way, then you're on your way back up, and there's, on the ramp, like, twice, I got trapped next to explosions going up the pipes, knocking me against the wall, and then I couldn't run away and got hit, like, four times in a row. - Okay, my favorite part is the first room you go through, the door that explodes outward. - Yeah, but you can't-- - Yeah, you have to take care of it. - There's no explosions you cannot escape. - No, that's the only explosion that I never would say-- - There's one when you're going up the ramp, and a vent blows out in front of you that I could ever figure it out. - Oh, yeah, I could never eat. - You can't see here. - But it's not even a vent when I saw it, it was just flame shot out of the wall, like, not through. - Okay, you're right, I did get hit by that, too. - Just flame shot out of the wall. - So, I mean, fuck, man, if you start this level with no health, you're basically screwed, and that's time. - Hello, hi, I didn't beat the game, you know why? Because I used every one of my house packs on the boss, and I had one tick of health. - Aw, it's hard. - So, I ran into, like, oh, okay, this is back when you could literally get to a point in a game and not to rest. - Yes, see, this is the only reason that I made it past it was 'cause I did the boss cheat. - I would have done a save before, like, I would have loaded a save, because I have 56 saves for the thing on my hard drive. - Really? (laughs) See, I'm doing PS2, and there's only three save spots, and I'm-- - There's only three save spots, yeah. - It's my fault, I've been using one save spot. Whatever, but yeah. - I didn't realize there's only three, though, that's fucked up. - I could not progress past this point. - Yeah, I'm like, 50,000 blocks. - Yeah, I did, I just, when you make it out eventually, which I did, basically, by doing what Arthur said, you crouch walk the whole time, so that things, ideally, will mostly blow up in front of you. - Yeah, I played it several times. I got there yesterday, played a bunch, tried, and got there and tried to get through today again, but there were those two hits that I knew that I could never avoid the first door, and then the one that blows out of the ramp, and then I knew-- - It's just total bullshit. - And I also knew there was the drop-down damage that I was gonna have to take. - I don't think I took any damage on that part, really. - See, that part is really weird, because it is far enough that you do take drop-down damage when you get to that vent at the top of the ramp. - 'Cause I fell through it, and I took it before. - Yeah, definitely, but there was one time work, 'cause I died several times here, too. I even died on the aliens afterward, on the things afterward. - Oh, there's a trick to that shit. - Yeah, but yeah, I figured that out, too, but there was a time when I dropped down the vent, and I think I was pressed against the wall or something, and the shitty collision detection worked to my advantage, 'cause I caught the wall just a little bit, and then fell the rest of the way, and I didn't take any damage. - That's exactly what happened to me. And the next part where you finally reach out to the cave again, with the elevator going up. There's like three demon after three demon. - Three of those pink demons come out, and they attack you, but they run up the ramp, and luckily I figured out if I just backed up into the vent, they can't get in. So then you just sit there. - Oh, no way, there's no way. - Well, what I actually did is I was on the ledge up there, and they were about a 45-degree angle to me, coming up the ramp, and they would try to charge at me, and they would always just jump off. So all I did was keep shooting them with the shotgun, and you crouch your shotguns like a sniper rifle, and so I just kept shooting them with the shotgun. - It's like in any aircraft. - And they would jump off the ledge toward me, and there was fire down on the bottom, and they would land in the fire and kill themselves. - I backed up into the vent. - I did think of one funny mishap that I think I saw when Anthony was playing through, when he was playing against the boss before I said, do you want to not hate life anymore? Just walk straight up to him, which is where I think you were trying to use the grenade launcher and high explosive grenades. - Yeah, and he just swung out at me, and just I shot my first grenade, and it collided with the arm right in front of him, and just blew him into pieces. - Yeah, the collision detection works great on grenades, like the wall to attack the grenade any time. - Tyler, that was the greatest laugh that's ever like this. - Yeah, you shoot the demons, and you ride the elevator up, and now you're officially like in-- - The collision is great with grenades. - The next kick in the balls part, which Tyler apparently did not make it too bad, it's okay. - Which is another part without-- - This is the part where basically Arthur tried it, but eventually this is from where Arthur just watched. - Are you kidding? - I thought the fire part was the part you were mentioning. Was the kick in the balls? - No, no, no, no, this is, it gets worse. - So now you're back out in the snow, and your objective is find and kill Whitley. - So there's a really long snow valley corridor. The cool thing is, is this the first time it's actually been in daylight. - Yeah. - So I'm like, oh, it's daylight. But that just means that the soldiers-- - There's symbolism there. - But that just means that the soldiers can shoot you from very far away with shotguns. - And it's all soldiers. - With sniper rifles. - And sniper rifles, and do a shitload of damage, and you don't have anything, hardly any say about it at all. - There's no say point. - And like no cover. - And no coverics. - The worst thing about this is the first time I got to this area, I had used all my health packs going up the fucking ramp. - Me too. - And then like I got here, I had one health pack, and like one quarter of my health left. And so like after dying three times, I was like, all right, I'm just gonna use my health pack right away. And I got a little further, died three more times. And I was like, well shit, I know I can get up that ramp better. So I reloaded an old save, went all the way back and got up the ramp, this time I had five health packs left. - Oh, that's nice. - Which was the only way that I knew I was gonna get through this fucking corridor, fucking guys, fucking shooting their fucking shotguns. - The reason Anthony finished it, and I didn't realize that there's like a little ice rabbit hole. - Yeah, so you also have to worry about freezing it, even though it's daylight. And so like you're running out, and I would kill all these guys, and then I would run back all the way to the beginning. And then eventually just out of the corner of my, I was like, oh, there's a little cave. - Yeah, I thought I was, oh, there's a weird smudge on that texture. - Yeah, it's really small. And then eventually you figure out. So eventually it just turns into you running and killing a bunch of guys far away, and just barely making it back to your little cave and being like, okay, I'm good. - Which has a ton of health packs and a bunch of ammo. - I didn't have any health. - They had four health packs in it. - Oh, does it? - Yeah. - Three or four in it. - You can only use some of those, and then you got into a little mini sniper battle trying to do that. - Oh, yeah. So yeah, now it's just mainly like I would try and snipe, but sniping, so like wonky for me. - It sucks. - So I would just broad barrel straight at them with my shotgun, just holding down the fire button. - There's no stickin' version on the sniping in that game. For people who invent their sticks. - Yeah, well, for retards. - I didn't really need it, but-- - For what? - I play stickin' version. - I play stickin' versions of the only way to play. Slip up. - Um, but yeah, so the, that whole section, like I use-- - I'm gonna leave that in there, so then-- - I ended up like, by the time I got done with this, it was freakin' down pat, man. Like I, the beginning elevator where you spawn, I'm like, run up the hill just a little bit. There's three guys that like come immediately down there, and like target them. Bam, bam, bam, bam. I even got a shot off on Whitney once. She didn't do anything, but I totally hit him. I know I did. And the-- - For all the fuckin' good at what I've done. - I know. So there's three guys down there. Bam, bam, bam, headshot. Get around the corner just a little bit with my shotgun. Shot on the first two-- - And then the guys come. - And then back up, and they come and like, get them all as they come around the corner. Load my grenade launcher, get the guys at the end of it. You know, like, peek around the corner, snipe the sniper that's in there, and of course I'm running back to my base to like, you know, get my-- - To warm up. - To warm up every time. Then I got into the little hole, figured out belatedly that it spawns a bunch of guys when you climb into the Heidi hole. - But there's no-- - Yeah, it spawns like four guys, like right there. - Oh yeah, well, I did kill guys while I was in the Heidi hole. Like they came to the edge, and I just shot them. - I killed every, there was like nobody around, and I went into the Heidi hole, and I started to climb out, and there were four guys there all of a sudden, all shooting me. And so like, once I figured that out, I repeated the process that I just described to you. Made it to the Heidi hole. Got those guys, sniped some guys from really far away, got that guy on the cliff after he almost killed me, died three or four more times, you know, trying to get to this section. It was basically like, it was almost like our hit man two thing where we talked about like the trial and error in order to get silent assassin on every stage, you had to do it. - Just way, way, way, way, way, way, and so eventually you reach those catwalks that are out there for no reason, rather than to have snipers on them. - You have to go, but you have to go through like a, well, there's like a set of boxes, but you don't go, this is before the dome. - This is like after you, like after the valley, you go out and there's like a couple catwalks with like four snipers on it. And I just did it on the-- - You do the dome first. - You do the dome first. - Oh, you do the dome first. - Okay, yeah, so the dome's out. - So you go after the valley, you go into the dome and that's where Whitley is. - Right. - And you shoot barrels next to Whitley inside the fire. - And you light 'em on fire. - And he likes to-- - So what? - 'Cause it's chilling. - 'Cause Whitley is like the controller thing, you know, he's the one controlling everybody else on the island. - Yeah. - Or you're on an act. - So he's like the hive mind. - I'm a continent. - And he's the hive mind. - He's the hive mind. - He's harnessed the virus. So, so now you have to fight your way through this dome, which it's like the stupidest dome. It's like if somebody went into this little bio dome and stacked a bunch of supply boxes into corridors. - And then they also put all these trip minds everywhere. And the funny thing is that the enemies don't know that they exist either, 'cause the enemies just blow them. So like every time I would see one, I would just wait. - Yep, and undoubtedly a guy would walk up-- - And then you'd look off in the distance and you'd see like these gyps of meat flying. - Yeah, flying in the distance where guys are spawning and just walking right in the-- - Or I'd like shoot my gun to get somebody to spook them and they start running at me and then over trip mine, yeah. - Yeah, I mean this part was basically just shocking. - Yeah, and it's a long thin hallway like around all these boxes. - They basically make you walk through a maze just to make this dome last as long as possible because it's like, imagine like basically Disneyland lining through this dome. - Yeah, there was a section earlier in the game like inside of a hanger and you could totally tell like, oh yeah, this is like what it would be like if I went to a haunted house, you know. - Or they make rooms inside a big room and they just make it long to make it long. Like that's exactly what this is. - Every time you go around a corner, you knew there was gonna be a guy around every single corner which is why you always had your shotgun out. - And you were just firing as you ran around the corner. - Yeah, and I did die once or twice because like guys would get the drop on me or whatever. But by this point I was like, you know, save point, thank God, so I was doing the same thing in the dome. Every time I ran around like two or three corners or cleared like a group of five guys. - You would run all the way back to the maze to save at the beginning of the dome. And like, which I'm glad that I did because right when you exit the dome, the snipers killed me instantly. - Anthony didn't save at all. - I didn't save it all but the snipers didn't kill me but what ends up happening was I kept on thinking that I had to go somewhere up on those catwalks with him and so I ended up falling twice and taking like a ton of falling damage and then only realizing that if I just looked off to the side, there was kind of this little valley and you're like, oh, that's where I need to go. - Well yeah, well because the mission objective for this part is to chase Whitley and then the mission objective for the next part is to kill Whitley. - Well, when I saw guys up on top of these catwalks I just assumed that they would lead me to where I need to go. Guys meant where I needed to go. - The worst part about like fighting those snipers on the catwalks is this like, I like, I enjoy sniping in any game even a game where sniping controls suck. So like the moment I got the chance to use my sniper rifle I was like, oh, okay, well-- - Yeah, they're just way better than me. - Yeah, they are. - And like their sniper rifle will kill you in like one shot whereas yours it takes three body shots. - Yeah, well it would take like three shots or whatever to kill me when they hit me but like I would shoot everybody that I could see and then I'd like kind of edge my way between a couple of the crates and start getting shot and be like, what the hell? And like I'd back up, I'd look, there's nobody there. Go forward a little bit, get shot twice more and die. - Yeah, I just, that's why I just ran, I ran zigzagging towards them with my shotgun in my one hand, so. - It's good to know you're more accurate with the shotgun than the sniper rifle. - Well, the shotgun auto hands for me thankfully and I put the auto in on easy for a reason. - Yeah, I put it on easy too but I ended up finally, finally figuring out that like I could see every sniper on the catwalk, if I was looking in the snow I could barely see like a darker gray outline. - And you could shoot him through that. - In the fog and I could shoot him from that far away. So I ended up finally getting them all and then I ran up there and I got the spliser ran into the valley where you finally load the kill Whitney level. - Where you fight the Cartman's Trapper Keeper monster? - Yeah. (laughs) - Yeah, basically it is just like a, it looks a lot, it actually the way it comes out and looks, it kind of reminds me of the monsters in Beyond Good and Evil. - Yeah, it looks exactly like the monsters from Beyond Good and Evil and it looks exactly like, which is funny because you know like this king came out before Beyond Good and Evil. But like it also, and also when I was watching it I was thinking to myself, man, as far as flesh monsters go, dead space had the best flesh monster here. - It really did the Leviathan. - Well the thing that doesn't make the most sense, that makes the least amount of sense to me, was that I don't, okay, so if I wanted to nerd out about it was like at least in like the movie The Thing, every time it would create something out of flesh it was like because it had obtained flesh, it didn't make any sense to me how Whitley went from like being dude to being like this towering monster. - Yeah, like, I mean it's very resident evil of it. - At this point we've told everyone to watch The Thing, so. - Yeah and in the movie it absorbed another flesh. - In the movie like the monster at the end, I'm not gonna say who the monster is at the end, but the monster at the end, it's been gathering like material and it's been growing under the base. So it sort of explodes out of the floor, but it's like a little more plausible because you figure that it's got all this like matter to work with and this is just like I don't know where, he just like makes a bunch of new saddles basically. I don't know, but yeah, this last boss fight is funny because now you, if you have seen the movie and we're gonna spoil the ending for you right now, was that when you play The End, you know, the helicopter comes and who's in it, but McCready from McCready? - McCready, McCready. - McCready who's Kurt Russell's character, which you already knew from the very beginning of the game that obviously something happened to him because if you watch the movie, it ends with McCready. - And Childs. - And Childs who's played by... - Keith David. - Keith David and they're in the snow and they're like, well, we'll just wait it out and see what happens 'cause they don't trust each other. And so you find Childs dead in the snow, but you don't know what happened to Kurt Russell's character. Was he a thing after all? Was he not? And now you find him and yeah, now he's just piloting his helicopter, apparently not the thing. Apparently he came back to help you. - And apparently he somehow knew where you were. - And he also somehow had a helicopter with a machine gun in it. - Yeah, I was a little curious about that. - Which was very convenient because this was actually the only boss battle in the game that I kind of enjoyed. - Yeah, I know, this is like the only boss file. This boss fight's too easy in my opinion. But it was purposefully easy. - So yeah, but see, that's the funny thing is that like this game does... This is one instance, one definite instance where this game is very modern in its game design is because modern games have figured out that the most difficult... In a game that has boss battles, the most difficult boss battles in the game need to be the second to last boss. And the last boss in the game needs to be an easy boss battle so that you have like a really powerful sense of triumph at the game. Like you look at like Gears of War II and Gears of War II, the last battle in that game is-- - Yeah, it's easy. - That's how last boss sucks. - It's easy, but I enjoy-- - You're talking about the Brumac. - Yeah. I enjoy fighting my really difficult boss battle at the second one from the end of the game. - To be fair, I also hated the last boss fight in the first Gears of War that was really hard. So I think it's like-- - But that's trumped by like almost the entire ending sequence of Gears of War. Like the entire part of Gears of War II, like the last 20% is just like a steady punch to the balls over and over again. - Yeah, I guess there isn't like, it's tough 'cause I don't really know what I want. But at the same time, it's having a really easy boss. I'm not sure if I like it, but having a really hard boss, I hate to. - I think it's like dead spaces, bosses were good. - Dead spaces, bosses was really good. - Dead spaces, boss was easy. - I thought dead spaces, yeah, dead spaces, end boss was easier than the boss before. I kind of don't remember the boss before that, but I remember thinking-- - It's even the burn. - Okay, but I do remember thinking like this end boss, thank God it's easier than the last boss, because by the end of the game, as the hero, you're supposed to fucking triumph, you know? You're not supposed to, I mean yeah, you skate by the skin of your teeth, but it's not supposed to be the skin of my teeth because my thumbs and fingers aren't good enough to make the character. - Right, I mean the last boss fight since you didn't get to it, Tyler, is just that Whitley turns into this big giant monster. He comes in a helicopter and now you're just manning the gun on the helicopter. - You can probably find it on YouTube, we can take a break and show him. - Whatever, we're just telling him. So it's a big thing, and as long as you shoot these little tendrils that are popping off of it. - It's one tendril that pops up out of the back. - Yeah, as long as you shoot the red rocket, as long as you shoot the red rocket, you'll keep them from attacking you. Which I did for awhile, but I couldn't figure out what I was supposed to do, and then you realize that he's also conveniently spawned himself right around with four piles of barrels surrounding him. So then you shoot the four barrels and they start shooting flame on him, which for now, which for now will hurt him, even though earlier he was standing in flame and it didn't seem to have any effect on him. So yeah, so you have to get all four flame things on him. - He's gonna bring continuity. - And then once you do that, it's like he does the stereotypical boss thing of like, I'm dead and falls down. And then it just ends with like, you never gave me your name. And he's like, my name's McCready at the end. - With a horrible saliva song. - Oh my God. - Saliva, dude, that's one of the worst bands ever. - If you look at, it's actually a selling point on the cover of the game, as it says with an original song by Saliva. - Oh, he was named. - 'Cause what we really want to end this game with is a saliva b-side. That is the cherry on top of the game. - It was hilarious, dude. Was that actually Kurt Russell's voice or was it just a good impression? - No, I actually think that it was an impersonation mixed with McCready voice cut from the movie. - Really? - No, it's not at all. - 'Cause I thought that was-- - How do you know? - Because we listened to it, like I showed you guys the part where he speaks into the mic. I've seen that movie enough to know a guy doing it. - I thought the voiceover in the beginning-- - No, that's not Kurt Russell. - In the end, but at the end-- - Don't look at me like that. - I will look at you like that. - I didn't even know, like when McCready-- - Fucking know it all. (laughing) - Art, there's a fucking know it all. Say it in the comments. - Yeah, and you know what? The dog special effects scene wasn't directed by the same director as the other special effects scenes. - There we go, fucking know it all. - Are the others better or that one's the best? - No, Stan Winston actually did the dog scene in the dropout and did the other part. - Actually it was Stan Winston. - What was Stan Winston for? - Stan Winston did Terminator, Aliens-- - They brought in a dog effect specialist. - Rob Button did the howling before this. - So you would know he was a dog effect specialist? - So anyway-- - He did the first whirl of transformation on screen. That's why they got him to do this because of all the stretching and stuff like that. - Because he was a dog effect specialist. - So I thought the Kurt Russell voice impersonator was actually pretty good. - He was. - At the end anyway. - No, I'm afraid you're wrong. - But it's another game where it just ends. Like it's just like Anna McCready at the end. - Okay, well first of all, the thing should have split into like four different pieces that scatter to the ends of the end. - Yeah, because not all of it got burnt. - Second of all, if this is a thing, video game, it's supposed to end on a downer. God damn it, we don't know what happens. - Hey, this script was approved by the people-- - By universal. - Yeah. I mean it had to be approved. - The ending should have been, I'm a greedy and then he just barrels the helicopter into the ground. (laughing) - The script was approved between lines two and three of blow, okay? So, but yeah, I mean it's, in the end it is like a, it's not a great game. - It's not a good game. - No, but for the time it came out, it was a good game. - That's really cool. - I disagree, I think that when it came out, it was an okay game. - No, it was a good, cool game that did things different than what other games were doing out there. There's a reason that so many people remember it fondly enough that Edge would do a retrospective on it. - See, I've got to agree with Anthony and that like, it was clear to me the entire time that I was playing this and I was thinking this a lot during this last horribly punishing part of the game that in the context of the times, this game was very clearly attempting to do something new and interesting. And like, I think even if I played this back in the day, I would have, I would have felt, you know, punished and if there were definitely things when it played it back in the day. - I just feel like there are-- - Well, I was also-- - The game-- - That did interesting stuff that came out before this and after this and in the same time period that-- - That's the, I'm not saying, no one's saying that this is the only game that came out in this time that did interesting things. - I just think that this is an example of a game that had really interesting ideas that didn't go anywhere, that when it came out, you could say, well, I haven't really seen much like this so I can say, oh, you should check that game out because it does this stuff. Whereas even now, like, I wouldn't even say that this is an okay game. Like, it's an example of a failure. - Yeah, well, I don't-- - I don't-- - I disagree with you. - Yeah, I mean, I still think that it has a lot of things that are wrong with it and parts that are designed poorly but when it came out, it was like, it wasn't just me, this was like me and all my friends were talking versus games 'cause it was like doing all these things that we weren't used to. - Yeah, but you also said that you can't believe that you back then thought this game was good. - I know, nowadays it's hard, it's one of those games that's incredibly hard to go back to. Just like, I wouldn't wanna play the original Resident Evil anymore, the remake maybe, but the original Resident Evil. - Well, the event is pretty bad, too, actually. But I still think that it's still, I wouldn't call it a bad game. Even though nowadays if you were to release Resident Evil 1, even with refresh graphics, you would think it was a bad game if it got reviewed today. But I still think-- - I think that that game would get higher reviews than this game was. - But I still think that this game, I'm not saying that this is a great game, but what I am saying is that it did cool things and for the time, it was a special thing. - Yeah, like, yeah, I agree, man. Like, and you know, I agree with Arthur too in saying that like, it's a game that means it seems like it's a great concept, but like, failure to execute. - Yeah, I highly recommend that everyone goes to edge online and reads their retrospective on it, 'cause you find out that they really did. They were like, "We have all these cool ideas," and then at some point they were like, "We can't do any of them." - Yeah, and you know, like, I couldn't shake the thought the entire time playing it, that if someone took this game concept today and made a game of it, like a live arcade or a PSN game, if like, visceral did it, like, could you imagine how amazing that would be? You know, just like, take that very stripped-down concept, but like, make it work, like-- - I just sometimes think that people that are around today and that have all these games that we have now think like that 2002 was like way similar to the like, game design times as it was today, what it wasn't, I mean, there were so many things that were different and at the time, especially not being involved in the press and especially not having very big budget 'cause seven years ago, I was still in college, very poor. Like, I didn't play that many games, so this was like one of those games that I had heard about and so I didn't have this idea of like, what else was really going on at the time. So at the time, when I played this in 2002, you know, it was like, this really special thing connected to this movie, I like to paid a lot of fan service to it and more importantly, did these things with trust and stuff, which weren't implemented necessarily well, but I hadn't experienced that in other games. - I think that the foundations for the kinds of games that we expect now were being laid before this game even came out. - Maybe the foundations, but they weren't being done very often, I mean, I think that you could show like a few examples, but they obviously weren't that common. - I see, but I just hear you attributing like, like a success or a legacy to this game that I don't think that it has-- - I don't think it has a legacy to it. - Like saying things like, this is why people remember this game, I think almost no one remembers this game. This is another one of those games where-- - The people that played it, no, the people that played it, they do remember it. - But not a lot of people played it because-- - But that's perfectly fine out there, but I'm saying the people that did, they remember it for a reason. - But we don't really, we're not talking about this, like, you know, it's like it's Citizen Kane, it's somehow changed-- - No, not, I mean-- - I'm in the face of gaming, but at the same time, I'm like, you know what, I'm really glad that we did this game on Game Club, because otherwise I probably never would have played it. - Well, it's just like called the Thule as a game that no one remembered, like no one remembered 'cause no one played it, but it was still a game that was doing cool things for the time. - I mean, it's, you could say it's like a game that was ahead of its time. - And when the team couldn't finish it. - Yeah, and that, you know, there were technical limitations in place that couldn't-- - I think it was a game ahead of its developer. - Yeah, I mean, I think that they were just, it was too ambitious, but I'm not saying that it attributed and that we have it to, like, we certainly don't have it to thank for things that are around or anything like that, but I think looking over this and thinking that in some ways it wasn't special for the time is just being-- - You know, you said we don't have anything to thank for, and it's like I said before, like, I'm really surprised that-- - Maybe someone played it and was like, we need quick saves. - Right, exactly, maybe, but like, you know, I'm surprised like some other game hasn't tried to take this trust mechanic from it. I mean, that's a really novel idea that no one's, you know, taken up. - Yeah, I don't know. - I mean, like, you sort of get that in modern RPGs, especially BioWare games, you know, where you can, where you can lose, you can actually lose members of your party because they don't trust you enough. - Yeah, in like certain circumstances-- - In certain circumstances. - In like a few instances through dialogue choices, yeah. - I mean, there's never been anything where you're worried that someone might suddenly transform into a monster. - I think the only reason people right now are being semi-defenses is 'cause it feels like you're just writing this game off, it's saying it was a piece of crap, start to finish, not worth anything. It's kind of how it's coming across Arthur, and it's like, I mean, I just don't think that that's necessarily true to me. Like I-- - I think that you were closer to 2.8 than-- - Yeah, I just think that even for the time it was made, there were other games that were laying down things way better, but I just think that for the time this was made and stuff, just looking back, it's like, it's just a special game. I mean, there's a reason that I wanted to pick it. - Well, part of-- - I mean, I played it when it came out and I didn't think it was good. Like, I took it back and discussed because the mechanics were bad and it was-- - My name's Arthur and I love everything good and hate everything good. - I'm not saying that everything I love is good, I mean, like-- - Was smack my bitch at it. - I hate it. - Which I love. - I love good man. - I love good man. - I was like, I have a no. - I love good man blood money, but that is a flawed game. I love like Hitman 2, but that's another flawed game. Like, I like games that aren't necessarily great. - Well, part of the reason, you know, why we do game club is to cover things that are just, you know, outside the common purview or that have something, have an interesting story to share for one reason or another. And I feel like this game definitely does that. Where I think its biggest failure was is the lack of the lack, everything feels so piecemeal. - Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say, has no cohesion at all. - Yeah, it's like, if-- - Now there's a boss fight. - You know, it's like, at the end, when those two guys are doing their Mexican standoff, I'm like, man, what if this was connected to the rest of the story? What if the guys that I started with ended up in this situation where there's me and two of my guys left and now I've got two of my guys like pointing their guns at each other because they don't trust each other? - What if there were more moments like this? - Yeah, what if there were more moments like this and what if those moments were tied together so one led into another? Like I was, and then I was going back on my head thinking about other moments in the game where like, I've run across an NPC and an NPC did something really interesting or like had something to say or is like, I trust you now or don't trust you now and what if those things like played into one another throughout the course of the game? So I felt like I'd gone on this journey with these other people. So that I cared about what happened to them and said them just being like my engineering automaton and my med kit dispenser, you know? And I think that when they first started to do this game, I think that's what they had in mind. - Yeah, from what I read and the thing, that's what it seemed like as well, but just eventually it was like, ugh. - That's what they did. - There was any unifying vision behind the game. Like there was no-- - No, but that's what I'm saying is there was a unifying vision behind the game but it wasn't executed on. So now it just, so it didn't happen. I think that, you know, because of the piecemeal things they feel to me like they were all meant to go together but it didn't end up that way. And I think that's what makes this game so interesting to me and what makes me glad that I played it is because now I can see the ideas not coming together and compare them to other games where I played where people had these kinds of overall cohesive ideas that did come together. And it like, it gives me a really interesting perspective on the scope of ambition that they originally tried for in this game and I appreciate that. - Stipping on nails has helped me appreciate choose more. (laughs) - Whereas I just feel like it, in a lot of ways, it feels like a game that was designed by a committee. Like it's, these guys would say most of the really interesting stuff is stuff that's taken directly from the movie, like the idea of fear and paranoia and you never know who's gonna turn. And then they said, oh, but we can't do a game without shooting, so let's put in guns. Well, we can't do a game this mostly just walking around and talking to people, so let's make it 90% shooting at shit even though the movie was like maybe 15 minutes of that with 120 minutes of exposition. - Yeah, that's why when you first started playing I was like, I wish there were less things to shoot at. - And we can't think of a way to make that a good game but there are someone out there that could make that into a good game where most of the fun parts don't involve shooting at things. - Yeah, well, that's a problem with games in general as well. And I don't really feel like, I don't really feel so much like this was a game designed by committee although I understand your point. It just feels to me more like what we've been saying all along, big ideas that couldn't be delivered on. - And so eventually I had to throw in, well, this will make, this will fill it out. - Yeah, but if we put in a whole bunch of shooting that'll fill out this level. - Modern example, sports is high. - I just don't think that the source material, the source material didn't lend itself to the capabilities of what they were aiming it at. I still don't know that there's a game like or that systems could handle that kind of source material. - Right, and why not be it? Might not be it. - Yeah. I still find this game to be extremely thought-provoking and in a good way. And I'm glad that I-- - Or we are sitting around me to talk about it. - Yeah, well, and I'm glad that it, and I'm glad that I punished myself to get through it because at the end of the day, I have an entire experience to look back upon and think, like, man, they're like Tyler said. There are some really good, awesome ideas in here that I just want somebody else to pick up on and go with. - Yeah, so I mean that could happen because they're making a thing prequel that's starting shooting in March. - Yeah, but then it's gonna be a movie tie-in, so let's not put new faith in that. - But it doesn't, I mean, again, that doesn't necessarily mean that it would be terrible. Like, the Riddick movies went themselves well to a fiction like that. - Yeah, but I'm just saying assuming that it's gonna be awful is probably a safe bet. And then when it's not, it's like, yeah, it's not, but-- - I mean, it couldn't be worse than this. - Yeah, well, I hate you. I don't hate you. Actually, like I said earlier than the thing, this was like the first game I was like, I'm not gonna beat this. - Not just, I can't, but I won't. - No, yeah, it wasn't that I couldn't. It was that I just was like, I was like-- - This is not a test of the humans. - To be fair though, I actually thought that was Call of Cthulhu as well. So that was another game. I was like, I'm not gonna beat this game more than once. - I thought that with Crimson Skies once or twice. I never felt that way with Call of Cthulhu because Call of Cthulhu, honestly, you were doing other stuff way more than you were ever shooting. - Oh yeah, shooting was such a, but so our next game, we decided, there's a wild card left field. - Nah, it's not that, people did suggest it. It was suggested to buy a couple people, yeah. It was a Freedom Force. - Versus the Third Reich? - Here's the Third Reich, the sequel to the original Freedom Force, which is available on Steam for Super T.S. - And the things you guys might be excited to hear about this game is it is from the house of-- - A rational, this is yeah, this is one of Kent Levine and all of your rationally-- - One of his games. - One of his games. - It's awesome. - Before Bioshock. So, we're gonna play through it. I don't know how far we're gonna play through it 'cause I don't really know that much about it. - Okay, so we're taking a week off. - Yeah, we're taking a week off so you guys can all have time to get it. - So you've got a week to find it and then we're gonna give you-- - And then we're gonna post on our website, eat-sleep-game.com the place that you should play to. - Once we figure that out. - Once we figure that out. So it's gonna be Freedom Force and then I think the next game we're gonna do if you wanna try and pick it up in advance, it's gonna be Splinter Cell Chaos Theory after that. - Are we or were we gonna do-- - Or Bioshock 2, we haven't made up our mind. You guys should talk about that in the comments for the show. Would you prefer Splinter Cell or do a new game, Bioshock? - And yeah, don't have any Freedom Force conversation in the comments for this. - Yeah, not yet. - You can have conversations about our conversation. - Yeah, you should have held my hand about what you would prefer for the game club after Freedom Force. Bioshock Chaos Theory, they're both gonna get done at some point, I'm sure. But Bioshock 2, mind you, not the original Bioshock. We might do a new game as it comes out, so. Which will be weird because I'll be reviewing it. So I'll probably have to play it and then play it again, yeah. - I'm gonna try as hard as I can, not to review Bioshock. - So it'll be the first new game I think we've ever done on game club. - It would be. - We thought about doing the Saboteur, but then Anthony, I had to review it. - Yeah, yeah, so. - The idea of playing it again sort of made me want to die. - Yeah, that happens. - So yeah, so thank you. - It's not terrible, it's just not something on a play again. - I just would rather not live than play the game. - So thank you for listening. You should listen to our Friends podcast, the mobcast at bitmob.com, the geek box at geekbox.net, and then you should watch Matt's wonderful video podcast called Co-op at area5.tv, or vision3.com/co-op. And then, yeah, that's about it. - Well you got all that out, I'm like one breath. - Yeah, and then you can remember, if you ever want to send us letters to this podcast or to the Rebel of Film podcast, it's letters@eat-sleep-game.com. That's what you guys get. - Thank you for listening, thank you for playing along, 'cause we played along. We'll see you all in two weeks for a Freedom Course. Red Rocket. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - I'm with the light side of the force. - Check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check. - I always play games on the games. - Tell me about them games. - I always think I'm gonna go back to the game. - Tell me about these games. - Right, tell me about them. - I don't know why. - It's not the game. - That is the blue gems. - Oh, what the hell? - You know, like when-- - I mean, you do this. - Fuck, fuck, fuck. - It's like, you know, okay, when I go-- Oh, well, I mean, it's-- - If you really want to break it down. - What the fuck are you doing? - Tyler's starting like 20 cents as he's not finishing it. Finish it up. (laughing)