I'm here with Tom Grant. Hello, Tom. Hi, Andy. Thanks for having me, mate. You're very welcome. Now, you are part of the message trust because you're part of something called proximity, which is what we wanted to talk about. So for those who don't know what proximity is, other than a word they might know in the English language, what is proximity all about? Ah, great. Good question. It's basically a brand new resource for churches and leaders who are based in low-income communities or estates or urban contexts. So there's a whole load of content on the website. We've developed the resources. Basically, what you often find in the church is that a lot of the resources that are developed and created are aimed at middle-class communities. That's really in our nation where the church is thriving. But in a lot of low-income communities, the resources that are created aren't a great fit. They don't particularly work well. So what we've done is create a whole load of resources where we've aimed specifically at those communities. We're also the second element of the project really is around in-person gatherings. So it's around getting together leaders, people ministering, living in urban contexts who often feel a bit isolated, a bit lonely, but doing precious, beautiful kingdom work, drawing them together to support one another, to encourage them and to equip them. So that's kind of the heartbeat of what we're doing at Proximity. We've just launched at a recent project. We've had a conference called Proximity where we had 300 passionate urban missionaries gathered together in Manchester for a couple of days of equipping and encouragement. So we had Andy Hawthorne, we had Sam Ward, we had Chris Candier. It's just these great people come and encourage us and encourage people in the work they're doing and the ministry they're doing. So we started with a bang, which is what we like, it's been going well. We already encouraged them, right? And then there are people in our lives who are so good at just lifting us up, exciting us, like fanning a flame, which is a bit religious jargon now, but literally getting a fan to a flame is going to make it burn brighter. But we need those people who can come along and excite us and encourage us, especially if the work we're doing, we're thinking no one really cares. What difference we're really making? And then somebody comes along and says, but you do matter and you are making a difference, which is where people like those guys can come along and really excite others. Yeah. And I think that is so important in the church, in the UK, really. I was, as we've been developing the project, we've been looking, this concept of Proximity, we had this name, it's a conference that the Message Trust has run for a number of years for urban mission. We had this name Proximity, we kind of digged sort of deeply into the meaning. And we came across this guy called Darren McGarvey, who basically talks about issues of proximity across the society, which across the UK, which caused loads of issues for people living in low-income communities. So he talks about how healthcare has a proximity problem in the UK. So he says, in low-income communities, that's where quality healthcare is actually most needed. That's actually the community where you'll get the least amount of time with your doctor, the longest amount of time to see your doctor. And actually, sadly, when you look at the church, there are all sorts of issues of proximity that are affecting people in low-income communities. And so churches in low-income communities struggle to find leaders, people who are willing to go and lead those church, often they're the church buildings are being closed. There's a lack of investments from, investment from denominations in those kind of places. Yeah, God is a God of proximity. When I read scripture and I look through the Bible, God doesn't, we say God doesn't have any favorites, but if out of push, it seems that God's favorites are those who are on the edges. Those are on the margins of time and time again. That seems to be where his heart lies and where he calls his people to be as well. And so we've got this disparity in the UK church where God is the God of proximity who wants to draw close to the broken heart to those on the edges of society. But actually, those are the places in the UK where the church is really struggling most, I would say. So that's what we kind of feel passionate to do something about. And for those people who have caught God's heart, we want to walk alongside them walk in proximity with them, encourage them in what God's called them to do, and help them to last the long haul. So that's what we're all about. And to be honest, it's kind of what the message trust has been doing for a good 35 years now. So we're continuing in that kind of tradition and that wonderful tradition of supporting those Christians and those churches and evangelism in what we would call some of the, I guess, some of the toughest communities across the UK. I remember somewhere in the late '90s, I was at a conference up towards York called Northern Lights. And this guy was talking about this church that was doing great work. And there was all this amazing stuff going on, and people being trained and transformed. And then all the Christian families who had kind of grown up in that really harsh area got better jobs and better cars, and they left to get a better house. And he said, "The problem was this church that was doing this amazing work attracted people, and then those people got better jobs and thought, 'Oh, now we can go to a nice place.' And actually one of the things that transformed that particular church is people said, 'Hang on a minute, I still want to go to this church. Why have I moved away from my spiritual home, if you like?' So then they started moving back and reinvesting, and all the extra money they had, because their hazards were cheaper, all of a sudden, now that's more money into the work of that church. And it started to thrive in the community, started to transform. So we do have that issue, don't we, of let's improve ourselves, move to a nicer place, but we forget the people. Yeah. And I think, you know, the reality is that if God's heart is for those people, and I often think when we worship, when we're worshiping and we're spending time in God's presence, which I love, I always feel like that should lead me back to mission, that should lead me back to, you know, if I've spent time in the presence of God, then and I'm transformed in His presence, then surely that I capture something of His heart, and that sends me out again, in intermission, and into what God's called me to do. So I think that's what I'm always looking for in the church, and within myself is that sense, like, if I'm spending time with God, I'm being transformed by His image, and surely He will send me to those places where I've captured His heart. And I think about these things, you know, even, you know, like what, if God doesn't have favorites, you know, and I, you know, and He doesn't play favorites. I believe He loves us all. We're all His children. But then I think, why is it in the Bible? Why is it in Scripture time and time again? He says, you know, these people are on my heart, and as a parent, I think about it in this way, you know, I love all my kids equally, you know, I'm trying to be a great dad, I'm trying to treat them all equally, but also, there will be from time to time, one of my kids who's on my mind more than the other ones. And I can't think, oh, why is that, you know, and it's not favoritism, but what it is, is that normally that kid will be having a tough time at school, maybe they're being bullied, or they're struggling with their friendship group, or they're struggling with their education, or whatever it may be. So my heart is for them, because they're, they're, they're going through a time of difficulty. And that is what we see, you know, in the Bible, I believe, and what, as a church, if we're God's body, you know, we're His, the body of Christ on earth, and surely we should be going to those places and invest in those communities where God's children are struggling, where they're suffering. And so I really feel like that's kind of where we're at, really, and what we feel like as proximity, we'd love to call the church back into proximity with those communities where God is really doing some beautiful things. God's at work, He's already there, and He's calling us to come and join in with Him, and what a joy, what a privilege to do so. And we need to encourage people. When I was in Manchester in 1995, '96, I was in some pretty rough areas, and it was really hard. We went to this one minister, and said, "We want to work with you. We're from the Pace Project. We want to do some work with you." And he was really reticent to even talk to us, because he said, "It's so precarious because we've got other denominational churches, and we're all sort of looking after what we've got to each do, and we don't really work together because we're sort of worried about losing people to the other church." Yeah. But I want to try. I think we'd encourage him just enough for him to think, "Okay, let's try and work together, even if I lose someone more congregation, because you know what this should be? God." And it was one of those, that took a brave guy to do that, and he was a brave man, and he was in a really rough area of Manchester East, and yet he tried to work with other churches, and the support then came in for him. And I think it's that thing, though, isn't it, that we get so precious of our people. Yeah. We don't want them to go anywhere else, but actually, what if God wants to send them somewhere else? Yeah. And I think that's... We've seen that through 35 years of the message trust, 25 years of something called Eden, which is how I came to be part of the message trust. I think it's well over 800 sort of people who have either relocated or chosen to remain in their community, in a community that is in the top 10% and the scale indices of deprivation, most deprived in the UK, and choose to live their long-term. And so I think that's my story, really, that I felt God's call to, as part of a church down in Hampshire, felt God's call to be part of his mission in the UK, really capturing God's heart around injustice and inequality in many communities across the UK. And so we came across the work of the message trust. I'd heard of Andy Hawthorne. I think I'd maybe even seen a video of him jumping up and down and rapping, jumping in the house of God's, you know? Hawthorne. Yes. And so I'd seen that. And then I came across the work of Eden, and we were just caught with this vision that I really think is this vision of... It's a beautiful gospel vision of coming close, drawing close to those communities where the gospel is most needed. You know, Jesus said that the gospel is good news for the poor, and good news for those experiencing poverty. And so we caught that vision. And so we were almost like ready to go. I mean, my wife, we were like, where are we going to go? So we went on to the Eden website to see where they were launching the next team. And top of the list was this community called Netherton and North Liverpool. And our jaws just hit the floor because it was a holy moment. It was like God was in the room because Netherton is the community where my wife grew up. It's the community where a family, a lot of her families still live. The church we were partnering with, the Baptist Church in the community was the church that her parents got married in. And so Netherton, it's like, it's a small place on the outskirts of North Liverpool. You know, whenever I say Netherton, people think I'm saying Everton, but it's not Everton. It's Netherton with a nuh. And, you know, we just knew that was God's call to us to come and move there. So that's how we got involved 10 years ago. And that's been our story. So those both those things, I guess, in a sense, me relocating. We talk about relocators in Eden. And my my wife in this also returning, she'd moved away from her community, but caught God's heart for what he was doing and returned with a vision to see, you know, to play her part in all he's doing in our community. So we've done that. We've been doing that for 10 years now. And it's been ups and downs. It's been glory moments. It's been gory moments and messy. But, you know, it feels like we're part of what God is doing. And that just feels like a real honour. That's beautiful. I love that calling. But not just being called is actually answering that call as well, because we all get called all the times for all sorts of stuff. But we have to actually be willing to take that step to the unknown, to the fear, but trusting that God's going to have that. But you know what, there's been two, I think there's been two or three moments in my life where God's spoken so clearly. I feel like if I was to ignore it, like I'd be like a joner or saying like running in the office. And I've wanted to definitely at times. But I feel like because I don't maybe I don't listen very carefully as to speak dead clear like two or three times just to make sure I do what he's saying. But yeah, I think and I think that's how for me in terms of calling, you know, because it's not it is tough. It's not always easy. You know, our church is on an estate. You know, it's on an estate where beautiful people, beautiful community, but it does have its problems. You know, and people here would admit that, you know, I think the latest census data showed that we were in, you know, the areas of the estate were top 3% most deprived in England. And so there are those issues people recognize that there are those issues. So it's not always, it's not always been easy. But I think when you have that sense of calling and you feel like God spoken, that's something you can cling on to in in tough times. And I know we've we've really benefited from that in those moments where you feel like it's not quite going to plan. So yeah, that's we've tried to hold on to that that sense of calling in those seasons. Keep hanging on. Right. I want to come back to proximity, but I want to get more into your journey because you talk about this calling. Yeah, where do you where how are you able to use that word? You know, what's your experience of God that you're seeing? I have this calling from God and he's calling me to this. What's your faith journey into a place where you're, you can hear God's voice and he's calling and you can respond to it. I think for me, I got baptized when I was 16. I'd had my parents, I'd say, had lived an adventurous faith. And so they'd set an example for me that they would they'd follow God. If they if they sense God saying something, they just do it. They take a risk, you know, even so I mean that, you know, there's some crazy things over the years. So my dad, you know, the church he was part of, we're looking to buy a church building and they didn't have the they were taken offering from the congregation to have enough money to buy the building. My mom and my dad prayed about the figure of money they should give. And so they came up with a figure that they didn't have, by the way. And so the only way they both have the same figure though, so they felt like God had spoken, but they didn't have money. So what they're going to do, so what they did do was just sell the house and gave the money from the house to the church. And then the that day they turned up on the pastor's house and said, the pastor's house and said, we don't have anywhere to live. Is there any chance you could take us in? So that was the kind of environment that I grew up in, which you might say is a little bit crazy. But for me, I saw God meet them in that place of obedience regularly. So I just got I got some point after being baptized. And I'm just thinking, look, I'm just going to try this out. I'm just going to, you know, if God speaks clearly, like those times where I have or if I see something in Scripture where I think this is what God is all about, then I'm going to try and follow that as best as I can. And it's probably got me into a few messes, but it's also been an adventurous time. You know, we we really love what we do. We really love and actually we've we've been here for 10 years and I can't see us moving. We love our community. We we love our estate. It's a beautiful place to be. But it's that definite sense that God has placed us here. And and I love it. I love it. I definitely get sending your house to follow God. We've done that as well. It's a mad one. Wow. I mean, I said my dad did it. I don't know if I'd do it. We did it. We pray for God to teach us faith. It's a big prayer. And it's one of those I often explain. I can see God, you know, okay, you want to learn faith? Let's go. So we sold our house. That's a whole other story. And this isn't my story. But yeah, no, I get that. Eventually, you have to follow God, no matter the consequence. And I think that's it, isn't it? I mean, if we're going to do this life of faith and following Jesus, then why do it like half heartedly? Do you know what I mean? It's just it's not going to it's just going to be I think that's worse than not even trying because it's, you know, you've got Jesus just demands it all, doesn't he? And it's that way of sacrifice, that way of the cross that feels very self-sacrificing. But actually, it's the way to life. And I just felt to be honest, you know, those passages in Scripture, whether the disciples go like, you know, Jesus says something like tricky. And Jesus kind of looks at the crowds get off and Jesus looks at disciples and say, you get an off now as well. And they're just like, where else could we go? Like, you've got the words of life. And it was almost like, like, if they could get off, they would, but they know, they know, you know, Jesus is the Son of God, and that this is the only place where they can find meaning and life. And so that's, that's, I think that's crucial. And that's what we've, we've tried to do to the best of our ability, is go wholeheartedly. And not can't say we've always got it right handy, have to be honest, but we've, we're trying, we are trying. One of my favorite scriptures is to obey his better than sacrifice. And it's a long time to really understand that one, but, but we like to sacrifice them. We like to give God the stuff that we're happy to give him. Yeah. But sometimes obedience, it's, there's more beauty. There's more terror on the other side. I haven't talked about white knuckling it, but there's beauty in that obedience, because when you do that and God gets hold of it, then it's not just good. Now it's God stuff. And that's where the really amazing things happen. It's great. And it's just not, it's so counter-cultural, isn't it? Because I think nowadays it's, you know, very much the widespread culture across the West is kind of, you do whatever makes you happy. You do whatever. It's not the way of, it's not the way of sacrifice and self-denial. It's the way of self-fulfillment, but that's the paradox of the gospel, isn't it? That when we lay our lives down, when we lose our lives, we find it. And so it's, it's very much controversial message. But if you, you can't, if you, yeah, if you want to find that life, I think you've got to find and pick up your cross, you've got to follow that way. And so, yeah, I don't want to get on a high horse because I've, like I say, I make enough mistakes more than I know what God's calling us to. Not that I always quite achieve it. Right. Well, that definitely gives us a nice clear line of how you got into it. Yes. Parents who I absolutely love, slightly mad, I get that. But then that, that brings you into this state of, I want to obey God because I've seen my parents do that. And you've then got some, I suppose evidence is not quite the right word, but it, it really is evidence of them following God. So that brings you into, and Eden, that brings you into the state you are. To take us back to proximity to them, what is it that people are going to be getting? They come to your website, they hear about it. What is their experience, not the website, but what are they going to be able to find to help them be resourced? Yes. So there's, there's all sorts there. And I think it's important just to say that this comes, you know, this comes from the message trust. And there's a history there, really of supporting churches that are on estates that are in inner cities. You know, I know that our church, in our community, where we is a beautiful church, and seeing a steady stream where people come to faith from our estate. But if it wasn't for that support from the message trust and us partnering with them to do an Eden team, I genuinely don't know whether the church would still, still be there. And so it's that kind of support that we're looking to offer more broadly across churches in low income communities across the UK. And so that's what it is. And I think I just also say, you know, this is what the message trust has been doing day, you know, day in, day out for 35 years. And just to, I just would just, just for a moment, just talk about the community groceries that the message trust have been doing since lockdown. Because I think this is a key part of the picture. And so during lockdown, you know, the message trust was a charity that goes into schools, prisons, and lots of mobile youth work. And all of that came to a stop as many, you know, as we all did. And as they tried to sense what God was saying, they felt this call to initially and with ensure just to be an emergency service really for food provision for those families that were suddenly feeling, you know, very insecure in terms of their food provision, because the kids were no longer in school. There was suddenly a greater demand on finances. You know, people were, had less money, they reduced their contracts have been reduced, they weren't being paid and getting the full amount on furlough. And so the message started to provide all these emergency meals, but then, which was incredible, thousands of meals, they distributed, but then off the back of it, this idea of community groceries developed, which is people sign up to become a member for £5 and they can do a shop for £5, but they get around £25, £30 worth of food. It's fresh, it's not, it's not tins, just tins, there's fresh fruit and veg, they get to make pick their own choices, they get agency, dignity within that. But also they partner with churches to do this. And so people who come into the grocery, they get a glimpse into the kingdom, they get, you know, this window into what the church community looks like and this all this kind of wraparound care and support. And so there's 20, I think there's 22 stores now across the UK. I think there's over 60,000 member families who have joined up and signed up to be part of this. And people are receiving food, which is great, that's meeting an immediate need, but also people are meeting with Jesus, which is meeting the deeper need in that spiritual need that they have. And so this is kind of the history of the message, really, that have been, we've been working in communities and serving, trying to follow God's heart into those communities that are struggling for many, many years. And so proximity really is continuing in that tradition and extension of that work. And so we've, in my estate, I'm a minister now at Baptist Church, in the Baptist Church, we move to be part of. And what I think, as I mentioned earlier, what we would struggle to find is a lot of resources that we would look to use for evangelism or for discipleship as when we first of all, we maybe struggle to find stuff. But when we did, it really was aimed for churches that were, I would say, were more in middle class communities. And so some of the language, some of the accents and voices and stories featured just wouldn't fit where we were. And people would watch it and just think this doesn't connect. And so we'd spend a lot of time, you know, we're already busy because there's, you know, a lot of need. And I'd spend a lot of my time trying to adapt resources or trying to find something that would work. And so at proximity on the website, you can go there today, proximityhub.org. If you sign up for an account, then we will let you know of new resources as they come out. It's all totally free. It's a gift to the church. There's no cost, there's no hidden secret cell that we're going to do. Once we've got your email address, we're going to force you to give us money or whatever. There's none of that. It's a total gift to the church. And you'll find lots of resources that have been created specifically with the urban church in mind. So for instance, we've got a guy called Matt Britton on the team who he memorized the gospel of Mark, which is an impressive thing in it in of itself. But he's an incredible actor and he performs it. And so he's gone around, he's performed the full gospel of Mark, does it in an hour and a half, he's performed in pubs, in bars, in prisons, in churches, on estates. And time and time again, when he does so, people encounter the presence of God and people who are not normally in church or wouldn't find church, maybe a comfortable environment to be. So we've recorded the whole thing. It's available on the website. You can watch it, but we've also written to go alongside it, a 30 day devotional journeying you through the gospel of Mark. So you go on there, you can go through the days, you'll find a video of Matt performing each passage of scripture. If you struggle with reading, you can engage through the video, then a short devotional and a thought, you can share it easily on WhatsApp. So if you've got someone who's come to faith on your estate, you can just bang it to them each day on WhatsApp and say, let's journey this together. And so that's just one example of the kind of resources we're developing and that you'll find online at the hub. But what we've also done is develop, we really believe that the wisdom and the experience for estates ministry is on the ground. The more I chat to church leaders and people in estates, they've been there for years, they've been plotting away. They've been seeing God move in really beautiful ways. But because it's not shiny, it's not massive, it's not seen as significant, whereas actually I believe that revival and renewal in the church will come from the margin. So if we see the renewal of the church on estates and in the cities, that will be the starting place for seeing the church renewed across the UK. So I'd argue it's actually incredibly significant. And so what we've begun to do is commission those guys and speak to them and ask them to share some of that wisdom, things they found that have worked. And so there's a guy called Ben in a church in Bolton. And he in his community, he felt like God told him to start knocking on doors and like telling people about Jesus. And so he was like door knocking, like what, like what on earth? Like no one, that's like 80. And that is just not going to work. But he felt like God was telling them to do it. The positives of it for him was he said, it took an hour of my week. It didn't cost me anything because we don't have any money. So that's useful. And he had it took a few people from his congregation. They pray about which street to go and knock on. They go to that street, they knock on the doors, and they just offer prayer. They'd say, can we pray for you? And they found that 60 to 70% of people who opened the door who were in said yes to prayer and wanted prayer. And they've seen people, you know, a small but steady stream of people coming to faith or come drawing close to Jesus because of that. And so on the website, you'll find their story. They tell you how to do it. They give you some top tips. And so there's loads of stuff like that where we look to just share some of the wisdom of what God is doing already in the States and in the cities. And just like, we just want to show it from the rooftops because God is doing it. It's happening. And if we can put a platform for that and to share it, I really believe that we're going to see God bring that renewal to the church, not just in the estates, but that's where it will start across the whole UK as well. Wow. I'm really excited. I love the guy who's going around, just quote in the scripture. I was in a church and we said, when we took over this ministry for children's ministry, we're going to read the whole scripture. We're using the lexicon. If you're not sure what the lexicon is, it's basically a, it's a Bible reading plan for churches to follow, really. And it kind of takes you through lots of the Bible. So this is what the church was using. We want to use the same thing, which passage you're reading? Oh, it's quite a long one today. We're going to do that with the children. The kids will get bored. No, this is scripture. And my encouragement for this one, just off the back of all you're saying is we read out the entire scripture passage, sometimes a chapter. And I had apparently came and said, my kids aren't happy. They can't find the Bible verses you're talking about. They've got picture book Bibles. That's all they've got. They can't find the stories you're telling about. Where are these stories? And I said, well, they're in the Bible. They're just not in the children's picture Bible. So they had to go out and buy their two children Bibles, because they couldn't follow along. And they got really excited by scripture, because we were excited by scripture, because it transforms lives and communities in the most beautiful of ways. So good. It's so good. And that's, that's really what Matt's been finding, you know, and he, and he does, you know, he does do, he will go to sort of some of the bigger churches will invite him to come and perform scripture. But he also, yeah, he's done it on the street. He's done in a pub, you know, where like people are drinking their beer and he's thinking, no one's going to listen to this. And yet, you know, he's had the experience of people weeping at tables, you know, as God speaks and moves through his word. And so, yeah, it's just one way we're trying to work hard to create opportunities and resources for people to that could serve them, because we know that people were living in the States who are ministering there or a part of organizations working in those communities. There's a lot of needs you could feel every hour of every day. And actually, sometimes you need a quick win, something that you think, Oh, do you know what? That would just work. Thank God for that. You know, and I can use that. And it may be it will help me with my discipleship group or help me, you know, as we look to evangelize. And so, that's what we're we're hoping to do. But I'd say the other element of what we're looking for is this sense of community that we'd like to create through the project. And so, we do that annually through the conference. So, the conference, proximity conference has been running for many years already in Manchester. And it's always a special time. It's always you get people together who've got the same passion, who have glimpsed something of God that they all resonate with in terms of his heart for those on the margins. And, you know, the worship seems to go to another level. And God is present in a very beautiful way. And we often get people saying, well, this is great for two days. But then how, you know, I feel like I'm going back then to, you know, the other 363 days of the year on my state where, you know, maybe I'm part of a minister's group, but they don't really understand what it's like in my context or my community, you know, I feel quite isolated and lonely. And other my Christian mates don't really understand what we're doing. And so, we are looking to try and find ways to create that kind of community that support that opportunity for mutual encouragement and growth throughout the whole of the year. So, we're going to do that through a number of in-person gatherings that people, again, these are listed online. People can go to the ProximityHub.org website. You'll find the gatherings there. And they're free times to come together around food and worship and prayer and to hear from one another, to hear stories of what God's doing and to be encouraged and equipped to go back to where God calls us to. So, we're looking to try and develop that in-person community. And just the other thing I think it's worth mentioning is we spent a day praying for the project, you know, in a lot of ways this feels like a real gift. Like God, this is a fantastic opportunity. We've got this project just presented itself to us. You're just all the hallmarks where you're like, this is God, this is the Holy Spirit. He so clearly wants to bless those beautiful people who are serving in these communities. And so, we had a day of prayer and prophecy and just said, God, what do you want us to be doing? And as we were there, we were in this minister's church in Manchester. And he started to talk about how he'd got to a place of burnout. He got to a place of leaving the church on a state they've been based in and kind of really retreating himself from ministry. And he started to talk about how actually there was a gathering that's one of his friends put on of other people who are leading churches on estates. And they got together for a couple of days. And they prayed for one another. They ministered to one another. They shared the good and the bad of what had been going on. And he said it was in that space of retreat that really God spoke to him through his friends and that he was able to go again. And so here we were on our day of prayer and prophecy in his church in Manchester, beautiful church doing beautiful kingdom work. And he said, really, it was that that helped me to go again. And so we thought he said to us, could you create spaces like that for other people, ministers or church leaders or people, organizations or Christians who are working and giving loads of energy, but who feel like they're tiring there on the edge of burnout. So God's just lined up and that's what we've done. So we've got three retreats in the first year of the project planned in a beautiful setting, totally free of charge. If people were to struggle with travel or whatever, we could sort out all the costs for that. And again, that's just a little offering that we feel like, could we just gather a small number of leaders and just bless them and encourage them and spend some time seeking God for them so that we could help them to go again and to continue going in their communities. So there's all sorts for people to find and connect to. And yeah, we'd love if anyone listening has got, if that is their passion or anything we're saying is resonating, I'd love to speak to you. I'll give you my email Andy. And anyone who'd like to chat further, I'd love to have a conversation about any of the things in terms of the gatherings or the resources, the in-person stuff, just reach out to me. I'd absolutely love that. I love how you're trying to resource people to help their local communities in person, but you're also helping the people who are helping the people in person. And I love that because it translates through wonderfully, because they're negatively fired, which is where we started this conversation. We can encourage and excite people. It's amazing what they can accomplish, but it's easy to start looking down at your feet and get really tired and worn, but when you're with other like-minded people, all of a sudden you're looking up again. And then the excitement comes and you can go back out and do God's work again. It's great. And to be honest, it's been that support. I've been very fortunate to have had that through being part of an Eden team and the Eden network. So I would get together with other leaders in churches or people ministering on estates and get that kind of support where you could share with one another the difficulties, but also the joys and feel encouraged. And so I, you know, for me that if it wasn't for that kind of support, I don't think I would still be here in my community, even though I know it's where God's called me and placed me. So it's really that kind of support we want to offer. And a picture that I really felt God gave me at the start of developing some of these resources was that of the passage in Exodus where the Israelites are attacked by the Amalekites and they go into battle when you've got Joshua on the front lines. And it's Moses, isn't it? Up on the hill, looking down. And what they find is that as Moses lifts his arms in worship before the Lord, the Israelites are winning the battle, but when his arms lower, they start to lose the battle. And so you can imagine him there, you can picture him in the heat of the day, you know, trying to keep his arms up. I don't know if you've ever tried that. I like how long you can keep your arms in the air, but I'm guessing after a while, it's a great difficulty. And his arms start to lower. And then what is it that happens? Well, his mates Aaron and her come alongside him and they lift his arms up and worship before the Lord and they see the victory. And we had that picture and really felt that there's many heroes of the faith on the front lines of what God is doing on the front lines of his plans and purposes for the church across the UK who are in that place of tiredness of burnout. And our heart really is to create spaces and where they can have people come alongside them to lift up their arms before the Lord and what they're doing to encourage them on and to help them to see the victory, to see the kingdom of God built within their communities, to be able to see that happen over the long term. And so that is what we're all about. That's what we're looking to do. And yeah, it's exciting. It's exciting me and I don't work in communities in the same way I want to, but I have a different thing to do for God. But okay, just give us that website one more time where people can start to access these resources and find that support. Great. So yeah, you can get us on social media as well. So go on to Facebook or Instagram search for proximity hub. That'd be fantastic. You'll find loads on there already on the social media side of things. And that points you all back to the website, which is proximity hub.org. So you can sign up for an account there really easy to do. And then that just means we're continue to share with you these resources that are developed. And yeah, I hope it's a blessing to people. Fab. Thank you so much, Tom. I'm really excited by this sort of stuff. If we can encourage and uplift people, which is what my heart is for anywhere with the radio, anybody else is doing that. Let's let's encourage them, lift because it makes a difference to people's lives. So thank you for the work you've done in being part of this and sharing it with us. And Tom from proximity. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure. Did you know, Pure 24/7 radio has a shop? Well, we do. You can buy merchandise while supporting the work that we do here. Simply head over to www.pure247radio.org/shop. That's www.pure247radio.org/shop.
