The Drive with Jack
*Dave Hochman, Arizonan and longtime U-M fan
(upbeat music) - Oh, welcome back. It is the drive with Jack. Spotlight, radio network. Jack Eblin here with my producer, Boston Rob. Rob, do we have our next guest on the line? - Still working on it. - Okay, do we make you do a lot of work today? - You might be celebrating that Michigan win, that we talked about before. - Oh, I don't think I wouldn't bet on that. You know, he's not that kind of Michigan fan. - Yeah, you can't come to the fan. - Not that he didn't want him to win, but when they stink, he's the first one to tell you about it. - Hey, he deserves to celebrate. He deserves to celebrate that win against Alabama, right? - Yeah, they didn't beat themselves, so they didn't do what Alabama did, but it's-- - Say Alabama beat themselves in probably five other teams. - I don't know if a team that's won back-to-back games, gaining 234 and 190 yards. But that's what Michigan did by playing largely mistake-free football. And that's what we have seen here, so. Right now, we've got Georgia with the ball at the Notre Dame 29, second and three here in the first quarter, about midway through the first quarter, and no scoring in the Sugar Bowl yet. So we'll see how this plays out the rest of the day. - I'll tell you what, let's go out to Arizona, right? - Great, yeah. - Let's welcome in Dave Hockman. Spent a lot of time in the Ann Arbor, Ipsalani area, and now out in Arizona, in the Phoenix area. Dave, what's the reaction out there today? Is it heartbreak? Is it pride? Is it disappointment in a non-call? Is it scam-scatterboo for president? What are we talking about out there? - All of the above, Jack. You had to be there in a situation like I was at one of the local casinos. I was in the sports book watching the end of that game. And when it came up to fourth and 13, it looked for all the world like Arizona State was about to win that game. And that place was erupting. I mean, obviously, it would erupt on every positive play. - Right. - You know, especially when ASU took the lead in overtime. And then when they got them into that situation, you know, where they just needed one stop, and they would have it. And then what a letdown for him to throw over the top for a 28-yard touchdown on fourth and 13. And boy, the air just went out of the place. And well, you saw what happened after that. It wasn't good for ASU. - Yeah. Did people think, oh, okay. We got another overtime. We got another shot at this. We'll get it. Or did they realize that that was our last best chance? - Well, it was a little bit of both. I mean, I think we all probably had the feeling that, you know, they had such a great chance. And when they let that slip away, the likelihood wasn't great of ASU winning. But they still did have another overtime. Unfortunately, the very first play of the next overtime. Was a touchdown pass. And they made the two-point conversion. So now ASU is going to need eight points just to tie it up and force another overtime, which at that point would be just a series of two-point plays. But, you know, they threw the pick and that was it. - Yeah, yeah. - But yeah, there's a lot of people, a lot of people are very proud of ASU for how they played in the season that they had. And as you said, there is certainly a lot of anger about the lack of a call on targeting. - I guess I don't understand the rule, Dave, because as I looked at the replay and looked at it and looked at it and looked at it, if that's not targeting, I don't understand the rule. - Right. Well, and the other thing that ASU is mad about is that in the second half of their previous game with Iowa State, they had a player, a key player, called for targeting on a very questionable call, and therefore he had to sit out the first half of the game with Texas. And then this play, which was, you know, much more severe, ends up not getting called. And the feeling a lot of people have is that they were making the call based on the situation, that if it was earlier in the game, it would have been called, but that the refs didn't want to be in the position of deciding the game, so to speak, because that would have given ASU the first down at the 37 of Texas with a minute eight to go. So they would have very good chance to win. - All right, let's talk a little bit about Camp Skataboo and what an amazing gift for Arizona State. They spotted him, they gave him the chance, and they were certainly rewarded for it. But in terms of popularity with the program, I think back to Arizona State and maybe Jake the Snake Plumber. - Yep, absolutely. - You know, maybe in light of what happened afterward, Pat Tillman is so iconic there. But I gotta think that when people talk about Arizona State football, and they're talking about their all time top, top, top, top, he's gonna be in that discussion. - Yeah, he's right up there, and especially that fourth core that he had, where he kinda did it all, including throwing a touchdown pass, scoring a couple touchdowns, running for 140 yards, the two point conversion that tied the game. I suppose you could also look at it that had ASU won in overtime, and they would have been fortunate because of the two missed kicks by Texas. But then you also look back to the fact that they gave up a kick return for a touchdown in the first half, and that ASU had so many chances in the red zone, where they either came out with zero points or three. - Yeah, you know. - Yeah, well, I think it's been a sensational season when you're picked last in your league. I mean, Indiana wasn't always picked last, or next to last in the big 10, but to be picked last and finish first in your first year in the league, I don't think that's ever happened before. - No, it was completely surprising, especially if you look at where the program was just a couple years ago, you know, obviously Kenny Dillingham inherited a mess from her med words, and his first year wasn't really very good, so there wasn't much of an indication that they would suddenly rise up and have this great of a year. - Yeah, well, when you get one of the two best backs in the country, show up on your doorstep and you get a quarterback, you know, who can, he's so confident he thinks he could go up against the Lions right now, well, against the Lions defense, maybe he could. - Maybe he could, yes. - Yeah, so, you know, that certainly helps. We saw that guy around here for a while. So, I think there's something else we haven't seen before, Dave. I'm looking at the top four teams, okay, in the seat. And not only is there a good chance that all four are going to lose, but all four were underdogs. Seeds one, two, three, and four were underdogs. Top-seeded Oregon was a two and a half point dog to eighth-seeded Ohio State. Two-seeded Georgia is a point and a half dog right now to Notre Dame. Boise was 11 and a half point underdog to Penn State and Arizona State was 13 and a half point underdog to Texas. So, how are the five, six, seven, and eight seeds favored over the top four? - Well, it's incredible, but on the other hand, it's kind of the way the seeding was designed. And when you have a requirement that the top four seeds be conference champions, you get into that situation where Arizona State and Boise State have the three and four seeds, and so they have the seeding advantage, but certainly, you know, obviously big underdogs against Texas and Penn State. And then you have a situation with Oregon where they're number one, but they end up having to play their first and only game against the really great Ohio State teams playing at the top of their game. And so, you know-- - I know, I have stayed at two more losses and it already lost to Oregon, although it was at Austin Stadium, we get that. But then to be, yeah, by a point, that's right. So they were an underdog, and then the SEC champion being an underdog, I don't know how often we've seen that in the playoffs, so. - Very true, but it is, but this Georgia team, I don't think is quite as good as certainly the two teams that won the national title, or even last year's team. And Notre Dame's pretty good. Obviously, won horrible loss early in the year, but have played very, very well throughout the year. So, you know, those are gonna be close points, Brett, both the Georgia Notre Dame game and the Ohio State Oregon game. We're gonna be close, and as it turns out, as you said, you know, it turns out both of the lower-seated teams were slight favorites. - Dave, I know someone very well, you do too, who placed a sizable bet on Ohio State to win the national championship, the night of the loss to Michigan. - Really? - Yes, and when most people were talking about Ryan Day being fired, that person said, you know, that could happen, but if it doesn't happen, if Ohio State plays the way Ohio State can play as the best team money can buy, it is the best team in college football, and it could roll right through this thing. - Yep. - And I can see that happening, and if that does happen, the question is, had Michigan beaten, or had Ohio State beaten Michigan, as everyone expected? Would the Buckeyes be as good as they are right now? - Wow, that's a great question. It's hard to say if they're playing angry and motivated and suddenly playing loose because they're not playing Michigan, you know. - I think they've looked within two and they found out, who are we? Okay, we have to do this, this, and this, and this, and if we do, no one can stop us, instead of trying to be something they're not. - Well, here's the thing, Jack. So if Ohio State had beaten Michigan, they'd have played Oregon in the Big Ten title game. Now, let's say for the sake of argument, that game went as it did yesterday. So Ohio State wins the Big Ten, and they're the number one seed, and Oregon would have been the five seed, and where would that have put things? I guess, well, maybe, maybe Oregon would be-- - I don't know that that game would have turned out the way it did yesterday, for these reasons, Dave. - Okay. - It would have been the following week. - Yep. - And Ohio State would not have had the time off that it had, not playing in the Big Ten Championship game to reflect and to have a Sunday come to Jesus' meeting on this, right? And to really reinvent itself. And also, I think it might have been a little fat and sassy and not coming out there with the viciousness. I mean, this Ohio State team is gonna take your lunch money. - Yeah, there's no doubt. But if we're playing the hypothetical game, let's say Ohio State wins that game, not necessarily by a blowout, but they win. So they're gonna be the one seed. Oregon would be the five. They'd have been in the place of Texas, so they would have played Clemson in the 512 game, probably won that. And then they would have been playing, I guess, ASU, just as Texas did. So a good chance Oregon could win that game and they'd still be alive and they'd be getting ready. Well, then they'd be ready for another rematch. They'd be ready for the third game between Oregon and Ohio State. - Wow, how do you think a third game between these teams would turn out, would it be like yesterday? Or would it be a close game like the first one? - I think it would be much closer than yesterday. I think Ohio State would probably win again, but I don't think it would blow out again. I think I was just one of those days where everything went right for them and wrong for Oregon. - Yeah, I just like this Ohio State version, a lot better than the one that I saw. And it isn't just that game against Michigan. People say, well, they had one horrible game. No, that's not it. They had some games during the season. They played Nebraska, Dave. And they were fortunate to win that one by four points. - And after Indiana had beaten Nebraska 56 to seven. - That's right. That's right. Indiana had clocked them by 49 and Ohio State beat them by four. And we know what happened when Indiana played Ohio State. So Ohio State's motivation comes and goes and then they were certainly motivated for the Michigan game, but the coaches were in outer space. When you look at what Michigan did to end the season here, it's gonna go down as a five-loss season, but when you end it with wins over Ohio State and Alabama, gotta feel pretty good, even if your team has almost as many first-round draft picks or could have as many as your team had losses. - Well, that's true. And the thing that's amazing is not only that Michigan played so short-handed yesterday or the other day and beat Alabama without all the great players, but that their offense, especially their passing game, was so pitiful in both those games against Ohio State and Alabama, and yet they won both games. - Right. They didn't make mistakes. - Yep. - Alex Orgy had one interception. And I think Davis Warren did in the Ohio State game, but by and large, in those games, Michigan won by not beating Michigan. - Right. - And you can win a lot of games if you don't beat yourself. We saw Alabama, I don't know if they could have played a worse first quarter. That was a bad a first quarter, as I've seen it take play. And they still only gave up 16 points, and Michigan started with four possessions at the Alabama 21. - Yeah. Well, you could say that maybe Michigan's most valuable player was Jalen Milra. - Yeah, exactly. Exactly. - But there's a couple ways to look at Michigan season. On the one hand, it was a five-loss season. It could have easily been six or seven if you look at the USC game and the Minnesota game. They had a couple of fortunate calls, especially the onside kick against Minnesota, maybe a couple against USC, and then Collele Mullings breaks off an amazing run, or you could say bad tackling by USC, and then he runs, he makes a similar play against Ohio State at a huge moment late in the game. So they were very close to having a losing season and not even making a bowl game. But on the other hand, you look back at their schedule now, and you look at the five losses in the regular season, and the regular season records of those teams that Michigan lost to, Oregon 12 and O, Texas 11 and one, Indiana 11 and one. Illinois was nine and three, and then there's Washington, who ironically played Michigan in the national title game, and then similar to Michigan, they lose their coach, they lose all their good players almost. In fact, they lost even more than Michigan did, and they had a similar season to Michigan. They were six and six, and Michigan lost that game. - All right, Dave, before we let you go, a couple of questions here. I need a prediction from you on this Georgia Notre Dame game. How's this gonna wind up? 00. - Why? - I know. - I'm picking Notre Dame with a very, very slight edge. Could go either way. - 17, 16, something like that. - Yeah, I may be proven wrong. - 17, 14. - Yeah, and I give the SEC full credit for what they did from the year 2006 to 2022. I believe it was, what was it? 13 national titles in 17 years, something like that. - Yeah, that's right. - But this year, I think the SEC is overrated, and it's not just the bowl games. It's the regular season, regular season non-conference, not that impressive. And just as I say that, Georgia hits a long pass. And there's a flag on the play, but it might be interference against Notre Dame. So, you know, I guess I have to pick somebody, and I'm just giving a slight lean to Notre Dame. - Notre Dame. - We'll see what happens. - Give me a score on Sunday night at Ford Field with the Lions and the Vikings. - Wow, that's gonna be, I would guess, high scoring. It's gonna be close. I tend to think Minnesota getting three points is a good bet. But that Lions offense is really hard to stop. I'll say the Lions pull it out just by maybe two points. - Okay, the Lions undefeated on the road. I have two losses this year, both at home. So, you know, maybe if they do lose at home and have to go on the road as a five seed, it's not the death knell that some people are saying, well, if they don't get the number one seed, they'll never make it to the Super Bowl. You know, they've proven that they're capable of losing at home. - And winning on the road. - And winning on the road, so who knows? All right. - True, but of course, that five seed is gonna be a favorite, especially if it's the Lions against the four seed, you know, probably a pretty big favorite. - And then we'll be back playing the one seed again. - Most likely, exactly. - Yeah, 'cause the one seed's got the buys. So, the five seed beats the four seed. It's gonna have a-- - Yeah, not for sure, though, 'cause of the receding, if there's another upset below them, that could change it. - That's possible. - Yeah, you're right. All right. - To everyone who wants a meal made just for you, let our team member, Arish, share what makes Culver special. - We know the best meals are the ones shared with the people you love. Like our cook to order butter burgers and our real Wisconsin cheese curds and our creamy, fresh, frozen custard. I put the same care into your meal that I went from my own family. - Order ahead on the app or Culver's.com for a meal made the Wisconsin way. - From Wisconsin with love, welcome to Delicious. 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Dave gives his thoughts on Michigan's big win against Alabama & more