The Drive with Jack
Ep. 2718 Monday Live
This is it right here. Combining a team of reporters, columnists, and commentators. Don't you ever talk about me. Are you serious? Jack Ebbling has brought thought-provoking discussion. What are you doing? That's a damn coaching mistake. Opinion. A customer at the one who decides when the future gets here. Oh no! The shepherds are fired! You have to check to report. Are you kidding me? That game was fixed. And overall, infotainment. I'll take your mind off. You wouldn't see that. Great! Is it good to come and ask you? Ha ha ha! Let's go! Yeah! Quietly, and exactly 15 seconds will be on the air. Thanks, big fella. Don't you ever come back here again? No arguments. Those are called astronauts. So buckle up. You talking to me? Whoa! It's time for the drive with Jack Ebbling. With Jack Ebbling. Yeah, for some reason another. Who sounded a little taller at radio? Great afternoon, Mid-Michigan and beyond. And welcome to the drive with Jack. It is a spotlight radio network. Jack Ebbling here with my producer, Boston Rob. 45 degrees here. Beautiful day in Mid-Michigan. And Michigan State playing basketball as we speak. First half completed at Brussels Center and 13-point lead over Western Michigan. And the Detroit Lions in action tonight in Santa Clara against the 49ers. Rob, let's go right out to our guest line. Very happy to welcome in. Colton Pouncy covers the Lions for the Athletic. Colton, what does this game really mean? I'm looking at the standings here and I'm trying to figure out what the significance of this game is. Yeah, I mean if you told me in May that this game probably wouldn't mean much. I think you're crazy because these are two teams that met for a chance to go to Super Bowl last year. But that's kind of where we're at right now. The 49ers have had some injuries. So they're not the same team that they once were. And the Lions, you know, for a game like this, it all comes down to week 18, not week 17. So they can afford to lose a game like this and still accomplish everything they want to accomplish in the regular season next week. So it's kind of a weird deal. I don't know if I've ever seen this. You know, where a game doesn't matter until the final week of the season, you know, I don't know. It's kind of a weird setup, but they got it and we'll see how it goes tonight. So the Lions are a half game behind Minnesota in the NFC North standings, but whether the Lions win or lose, as you say, it's all going to come down to the week 18 matchup. Dan Campbell doesn't seem to be paying much attention to that. Seems determined to play and win. Do you think that's a good idea? You know, I go back and forth a little bit because, you know, in some ways I get not wanting to stray away from what got you here and that's going all out every week. And, you know, the team is 13 and 2/4 reason and a lot of that has to do with Dan Campbell and how he's kind of led the ship here. But at the same time, I know it's weird, but like this game does not matter. And with the number of injuries they've had, you know, I think it would be smart to kind of rest some guys. Not everyone. I know it's not really feasible, especially when you spend all week putting together a game plan with certain guys in mind. But, you know, if you can rest some guys and pick your spots here and there and still get the win, I think that's kind of what you want to hope for. And, you know, Dan's going to go full out. I'm not sure if he's going to stick to that. Maybe they get a lead and they pull some guys, you know, second half. But as of now, he's planning to go and try a win with the game. So, we'll see what happens. Cohen, if the Lions are leading, let's say 27 to 17, at the end of the third quarter, would you expect Jared Goff to go out there and just play like this is a championship game? One injury there, and you mentioned how many they've already had, could derail everything. Yeah, if that's the case, let's narrow you away now. I think he would still be in the game because one thing Dan told us this season is like, you know, he doesn't, he needs to feel that one, the guys are playing well, and two, the lead isn't really surmountable. You know, they're able to come back because he saw, I think the Eagles, there's a game rather this year where they're up 22-0, maybe 20-0, something like that. I've got it with their plan, but they allowed the other team to come back, and all of a sudden, like they scored two touchdowns in a matter of, you know, two minutes, something like that. So, yeah, I think it's going to depend on the lead. And honestly, the 49ers have a pretty solid defense, so I don't know if it's going to be a game where, you know, like the Titans earlier this year, the Cowboys, I don't know if it's going to be one of those games. So, we could see the guys play it to the fourth quarter, just a matter of when he feels like it's the right time to pull those games and pull those guys from the game, I guess. When Goth goes back to pass in the fourth quarter, and Nick Bosa, whoever would be there for the Niners, is zeroing in on him? Are you going to be apprehensive? Do you think the coaches will be... I don't think they will. You know, they don't really... It's hard to account for injuries like that, and, you know, anything can happen, I guess, I'm going to give them play, but they're not going to games expecting guys to get hurt. Especially the quarterback, like Jared Goff, who's been pretty healthy most of his career, but I imagine the fan base might be a little squirmish if they see him out there with, you know, five minutes left, up 14 or 17, something like that. All right, let's go back to last January, and the scene of the crime, Michigan's... Michigan State, the Lions with a 24 to 7 advantage at halftime, and everyone was thinking, "Okay, this is it. This is the year. Super Bowl, here we come." And then everything that could go wrong did go wrong in the second half. How much do you think that's played on the Lions' minds? Do you think they've talked about it? Do you think they've watched that game again? How do you deal with that? Yeah, you know, it's time for you to ask. A lot of guys, after the pre- shaving of the Bears, you know, was in the locker room saying like, "Yeah, I'm still mad at that game. It's one of the worst losses I've ever suffered in my life. Like, I can't think of anything worse. You know, I want to win this game." So you talked to him after that Bears game. He's like all fired up, and then, you know, you get into the week, and it's like, you know, it's just another game. You know, it's important because it's the next one. So then you have guys kind of backtracking a little bit. But based on the initial comments that we were hearing after that Bears game, those guys want to win that game, for sure. Not just because of, you know, seating or whatever, tiebreaker potential, whatever, just because they want to beat the 49ers, and they're still a little upset about what happened here last year. And, you know, I don't want to call it a revenge game because, like, they blew it. They had a chance to win and go to the Super Bowl, and they just weren't making the plays that they needed to win it. So I think it's more just trying to right some of those wrongs. And again, it's not the same. Like, it's not a trip to the Super Bowl on the line. But if it can give you a little bit of closer, or you could feel a little bit better about yourselves after a win, then I think we'll try to go for it. Colton, one of the dumbest cliches that you hear in sports, it drives me absolutely nuts every time I hear it, is they all count one. And anyone who thinks that the loss to the 49ers last year in Levi's stadium has any relationship to the importance of this game. But if you had a choice, you'd rather win that one a hundred times before you'd rather win this one, right? Yeah, no doubt about it. I mean, that's the one that we were all looking at flights to Vegas at halftime of that game. That's going to be the one. But it wasn't meant to be, and they're trying to get back there this year and see if they can actually make it there this time. Did you get a chance to watch Minnesota and Green Bay yesterday? Uh, parts of it, I was on my plane, kind of waiting for baggage and everything, but I caught like, I think it was 27-10 when I stopped watching off the plane and I came back and it was 27-25, and I was like, "Oh, okay, so that happened." So I was able to catch like the final couple of minutes there, and I mean, honestly, the Vikings are a tough team, man. Like, they got a lot of the grit mentality that the lines have, just in a different, like, brand, I would say, in a weird way. But you see the locker room celebrations, they're, you know, lifting Sam Darnold, you see Kevin O'Connell in the background, and you're just like, "This team is fun." Like, they remind me of the lines in some ways, but, you know, that's why I think it's going to be so cool to come down a Week 8 team. Like, that's what you play the game for. That's why you coach, as Campbell said, for moments like that. So I think Week 8 team is going to be a lot of fun. As great a story as the Lions are overcoming all these injuries, is the biggest surprise this season, Minnesota or Washington? Ooh, you know, I thought the Vikings had some talent, and I think, like, I liked it, Sam Darnold a lot more than most people did going into season. Yeah. Because I think so highly of Kevin O'Connell, I think he was an amazing coach, an amazing offensive mind. You know, again, I watched what Nick Mullens was able to do for the Vikings last year and throw 400 yards against the Lions and look like an all-pro quarterback for a couple of, a couple of starts there. And so to get a guy like Sam Darnold, I was like, you know what, they got some pieces offensively, their defense with Brian Flores could be coming along. So it's like, I like what's in place, I just got to see it. And then obviously the way the series played out, it's been pretty fun. So, but man, the commanders, I mean, I thought they might pick in top three again, and here they are in the playoffs. So obviously the commanders are definitely more surprising. Did you think that at this point it would be the Lions and the Packers, instead of the Lions and the Vikings? Yeah, I think that's fair to say. The Packers obviously what they did in playoffs last year, you know, being the Cowboys the way they did, given the 49ers all they could handle. I think I liked them a little bit more than the Vikings coming into the season, but man, I think the Packers have been pretty disappointing this year. Because yeah, you know, they got all the wins, but their five losses have come against the Vikings, the Lions and the Eagles, the three top teams in the NFC, and like they haven't been able to get it done against that competition. So, you know, playoffs are different beasts, but you got to get it done the regular student too, and they haven't been able to do it this year. So they have a disappointment for the Packers. So take me behind the scenes here and how the decision is made. I don't know who has first choice on this, when a game is assigned to a certain window. This is going to be the marquee game for week 18, right? Yeah, for sure. They flexed it to a Sunday night football. That's going to be the last game of the day of the season. And it was really going to be, you know, if the Vikings end up losing to the Packers and the Lions won, they obviously would have clinched in week 17. And week 18 will be meeting with some that scenario. So I imagine it would have been a different game for that time slot. But if this is the biggest game of the regular season, and it was kind of a no-brainer to kind of move it up to Sunday night football and what's that be the last game of the year and decide the one seed. Like, I've never seen a game with this like level of stake in a regular season to what could be 14 when teams, depending what the Lions do tonight. I believe the loser would be the first ever 14-win wildcard team. It's been done with the 13-win team. I think the 99 Titans were 13 in three and finished second place. But we've never seen a 14-win wildcard team before. Yeah, that's going to be the marquee game for sure. So the Lions could have a franchise record, 14 wins, and be a five-seat. Yeah, how about that? Just their luck. Wow. As you look at the standings now, as they would shape up, a five-seat would play the fourth seed, right, in the first round? Correct. On the road. Yeah. And that would be the weakest of the division champs in the NFC, right? Yeah. Which I think right now would be the Buccaneers, I believe. Okay. It depends if the Bucks and Falcons both play next week. Not each other, but I think if the Bucks win, they're in. Yeah, and the Falcons with that loss last night, they were struggling to handle the clock in the last couple minutes. Commanders and Falcons in the battle of rookie quarterbacks. But I think the Falcons are, you know, they're basically done now. So I think it's going to be Tampa. And we know the Lions have already lost the Tampa this year, right? Yeah, they have. And honestly, like, I think the Bucks have gotten even better since they put the Lions. But Bucky Irving has really stepped up. He's really become one of the best young running backs in the league, taking over that running back room. You know, like some of their receipt, I know they lost Godwin, but the rookie from Washington and McMillan, I think he's been playing really well. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, they've got some pieces still, Baker still operating at high level. He got Mike Evans, a good defense. That defense really gives the Lions some issues there. So that would be a tough one on the road. Let's deal with the negative aspects first. If this is Lions at the Bucks, how does the Lions stop Mike Evans? Yeah, that's the question. I mean, Terry Arnold's going to be ready because he's their de facto number one cornerback right now. So really it's going to come down to, you know, maybe give him a little extra attention with the safety. Just keep an eye on him throughout the game. But yeah, stopping Mike Evans is going to be probably number one. I would imagine offensively. And how important is it to get the one seed, not for a home field advantage as much. The Lions only losses this year have come at home unbeaten on the road. But to have the week off and for a team like Detroit, I imagine guys who are out aren't getting any worse. They're only getting healthier. Would you expect some guys to be back for the playoffs? Yeah, you know, I think they have a chance to get some guys back. You know, out there in the lonely, he could come back as soon as maybe week 18 against the Vikings. I imagine he's going to try to suit up in play this week. But if not, it was always week 18 slash first playoff game, I think was the timeline given by Dan Campbell. So he'd be the big piece there. Some of the others I think are more wait and see, like Dan Campbell didn't really seem too optimistic about Carlton Davis. It sounds like he's going to need more time. You know, David Montgomery has not been placed on IR. He saw a third opinion to kind of see if he can still play this year and seems like it's kind of up in the air. But I've had just some of these guys and even Aidan Hudgens, if you want to hold that hope for him, might be like NFT champions from game or Super Bowl. So you got to win some of these games to get there and get those guys back first. But yeah, it's a lot easier if you're at home and you get a bye week in between versus starting the playoffs on the road. Colton, how many opinions can a player seek? Is David Montgomery just going to continue this until he gets someone to tell him what he wants to hear? Yeah, you know, once you get to the third opinion, I think you've got to make a decision at that point. But I think the second and the third were both kind of on his side, I guess, if you want to say that in terms of, yeah, we don't see enough to where you would hurt it more. Maybe if you just rest it, you can get back to playing. So I think the first opinion wasn't great. The second one was good and the third one was good. So I think that kind of won out there. So I think that's why they're kind of holding out hope that he can make that come back. And if he's able to play it, whether it's the NFC Championship game or the Super Bowl, like that would be such a huge boost and such a huge lift for them to get a guy back like that back, who's kind of the heart and soul of their run game there. All right, let's get back to tonight's game, Colton. What happened to the 49ers? They don't look anything like the team we saw last year. And of course, Christian McCaffrey has been injured the vast majority of the season out again. But they've had other guys banged up and they don't seem like they responded the same way. Yeah, you know, I guess the easy thing to start would be injuries, but then again, like a team like the Lions have been injured and they've been able to win 13 games. So I don't know if that's like the only excuse. I heard Shanahan talk about this the other day that there's some players that really aren't used to losing on that team because they haven't done it very often. So I think maybe things will go your way. They kind of snowball a little bit. You don't really know how to fight back. There's probably some of that to an extent. You know, so I don't know if that's the full picture, but it seems like a team that was kind of aging anyway and was kind of on this last couple chances there. Like obviously the injuries didn't help and they kind of accelerated that. But if you look at how old the roster is, you know, just the timeline of NFL teams and Windows, it seems like they're kind of on the tail end of that anyway. And then the injuries just didn't help. So, you know, we'll see, obviously Chris McAfee is like the engine that makes it all go and he hasn't been able to play it much this year. So losing a guy like that definitely hurts. I think back to my memory of the 49ers this year being a player who wouldn't go in the game. Yeah. And to the point that John Lynch, General Manager, had to come down and get into this. Can you imagine how Dan Campbell might have handled that? Well, he'd be off the team like the next day. Like, no question about it. Like you can't have guys like that on a Dan Campbell roster that wouldn't fly. And I think the locker room would understand too. So, yeah, I was still pretty shocked that that happened. I can't believe that. I haven't seen that much in the NFL. Yeah. How often does something like that happen where a player says, well, if you don't want to play me, you don't want to start me. You don't respect me. Well, you know, you just do it your own way. I remember the famous story when Joe Schmidt was Detroit Lions' assistant coach after being one of the greatest linebackers in NFL history. And they had a very mercurial talent named Joe Don Looney. And Joe Don saw the game one way and head coach Harry Gilmer saw it another. And so Joe Don was pulled out of the game and they were going to send him in with the play. And he said, "Hey, you want a messenger? Call Western Union." So, I mean, do you see this frequently in the NFL or was this something that, you know, everyone said, "Whoa, what happened here?" Yeah. I mean, you did have been Tony or Brown a couple of years ago just like up and leave at halftime of a game or something like that. Like, that was a weird one. I don't think it happened a ton. And if it does, maybe it's more private and you just have conversations. But even then, it's like hard to hide, you know, a guy just not going into a game. So, yeah, it doesn't happen often. And like, the thing with this situation is like, Dray Greenlaw was in front of you. And that's like a really good player in this league. I don't know how upset you can be. It's not like some scrub. Right. So that was kind of a weird situation. And he calls himself some money. Like, teams are going to remember this for the rest of his career. So like, you're hurting your own pockets while doing this dude. Like, I don't know why he did it that way. But, you know, he made his decision. Yeah. I think if you thought about it for even a split second, you would realize that your future with the Niners is over. And then as far as your desirability for another team, I don't think that's something you'd want in your resume. Absolutely not. I mean, this is going to follow him the rest of his playing career. And, you know, I'm sure he'll get him up to somewhere else. But like, he's going to have to be on his best behavior until he kind of proves himself again. Because, I mean, yeah, that's going to stick with you for a while. So what is the goal for Detroit tonight? Staying healthy, probably more important than winning. But what else is on the agenda? What is Dan Campbell going to lay out to the team before they take the field? Yeah. I mean, just first of all, win. Be as healthy as possible in the process. Keep, you know, stay sharp and ready for next week. But also, I think there's a minor element in this game where you have to win. Because if you do win this game and there's an unlikely scenario where you tie the Vikings next week, the Lions would own the tiebreaker and they would be the one seed. If you lose to the 49ers and then you tie the Vikings next week, the Vikings would be the one seed. So it's important to get the win for that reason as minute as it is. So get the win. You know, I think Campbell wants these guys playing sharp. He wants to see that edge. They don't want, he doesn't want to see them kind of, you know, low for round out there, even though it's a meaningless game in terms of, you know, a lot of other things. So if they're playing hard, playing with the edge and they could stay healthy and get the win, I think that's a perfect scenario. We'll see. The injury bug's hit them pretty hard. So I think worst case scenario, you don't want to see anyone go down. But, you know, that's kind of the risk you run when you're trying to go all out and win a game like that. As you look at the NFC this year, there's a lot of talk about the MVP award. Whether it's Lamar Jackson or it is Josh Allen. If you just had an NFC MVP, who would it be? Um, I think the first thing comes to mind, it's take one just because of how he's accelerated that offense. Um, and Philly, I think, you know, running, elite running back like that. I know he, you know, easy to forget playing behind a bad offensive line in New York. But you put him behind a good offensive line. This is what can happen. Magic can happen. You know, 2,000 yards could set the record next week. So, um, I mean, he's probably first and I would say Jared Goff is number two, just based on, he's having a career year for the lines. I feel like it's kind of gone under the radar. Um, so, I mean, what he's been able to do with this offense, he looks so much sharper than he was even a year ago when he was very sharp. So, obviously, they want to go off in the NFC. Uh, Jared Goff has exceeded all expectations. What did you expect from him after last season coming in? Did you think he would be an excellent quarterback? Did you think he would be the best quarterback in this conference? I think the continuity, both on the roster and on staff with Ben Johnson, all these guys coming back, I thought that would allow him to have a season like this, where like, if you throw away the Texans game, which is kind of a fluke, you know, five interceptions, you don't want to see that often from him. Uh, he's been, usually, the best quarterback in the NFC. Um, even with that game, he's probably been the best quarterback in the NFC. Um, and I think he's just, the little details, like he's taken this game to a higher level. He's hitting, you know, Jamison on these 82 year passes now, which is like a different element that they didn't really have last year. Um, he just looked so much more in command of the offense than just a year ago. So, I really think that's just like the time on task with the staff and with the guys around him. That's a lot of them that kind of have the best season of his career. Okay, take Jared Goff out of the equation. Colton, can you pick an offensive and defensive MVP on this team? Ooh, on the team. Yeah, I would go to Nate Sewell on offense. He's been incredible, what they've been able to do with him in space as a blocker, his athleticism. He might be one of the most important players on this team, not named Jared Goff right now, in terms of offense players. Uh, defensively, I would go, I would go Brian Branch just because he can play anywhere in the secondary. Um, he's been the most consistent player. He can give you big plays with some interceptions. He can force out fumbles. He can, you know, blitz off the edge, drop in the coverage. You can do everything you need him to do. And honestly, he's one of their few elite players left standing on defense. So, it would have been hutch. That's the easy answer. He was having a DPOY type of season, but I think Brian Branch has been just as good in his own right. All right. Colton, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Have fun in Santa Clara. Uh, we had a blast there last January, except for the second half. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on deck. Colton Pouncy. Gotta give you a quick update on Michigan State basketball. And, uh, it was half time Michigan State led by 13 we mentioned. While we're talking to Colton, all hell broke loose. And Michigan State now was just up four. So Western chip nine points up. Spartans just scored to go up 51 to 45. But that is much closer than anyone expected. No one thought that this would be a competitive game. In the second half, in fact, the Vegas betting line was Michigan State by 27 and a half points. And, uh, the basketball predictor had Michigan State winning 99% of the games. Michigan State still looks like they're in position now. But, but six point lead, isn't that big? And, uh, you've got enough time here, 11 minutes to go that one or two turnovers and a couple of big shots and Michigan State could find itself in a position at Dwayne Stevens. Back as head coach of the Broncos, of course, he was a guy who had the shot Rob, the game Michigan State the championship, the first year of Brussels Center against Purdue in that showdown, the last game of the season. Ball bounced loose, he picked it up, laid it in the basket, and that gave Michigan State a big 10 title. Uh, I don't think even he thought that they would come in here and, uh, give Michigan State this kind of a game. We'll be right back in just a minute. We'll go down to Florida and talk with Gregory Eaton, a guy who has been to every, every Super Bowl game. We'll be right back. To everyone who craves a sweet treat with a little something special, let us tell you about our concrete mixers at Culver's. There's so many reasons I love fresh frozen custard. It's so rich, so creamy. It's the perfect treat. But, when I handcraft it with all of your favorite mix-ins and see your smiles after every spoonful, it's clear what makes our concrete mixers so special to me is making them just for you. From Wisconsin with love. Welcome to Delicious. Hey Spartan fans, when you want the largest and best selection of Spartan gear, alumni hall is your ultimate shopping destination. Come get your officially licensed gear. Nike, champion, Columbia, Yeti, new era hats, tailgating gear, and more. The LSU students, faculty and military receive 10% off in-store every day. And you can earn cash back with their hall pass rewards. Alumni Hall, located in Eastwood Town Center near the Apple Store. Or shop anytime at AlumniHall.com. For the ultimate Spartan shopping experience, it's Alumni Hall. Jack Evelyn, here with my good friend Matt Sloane, a graph of ochemists. Lots of excitement at the two dealerships. What's new with Chevy and Nissan? Well, Jack, great question. At Nissan, everybody seems to be talking about interest rates. We're offering 0% financing on new vehicles. And we have the all-new, completely redesigned 2025 kicks on the lot and ready for delivery. It is fantastic. At Chevy, same thing. People are talking about interest rates. Guess what? We have 0% financing on new and as low as 1.99 used. You gotta come check it out. Great time to get a car and great place to do it. Time for a career change. Looking to make a difference? Dean Transportation is looking for compassionate people to join our dedicated team of school bus professionals. 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Meduar Jewelers in Lansing, Ockhamis, Jackson and Portage want to help you preserve your memories and offer you options on creating new ones. Come in today for the cleaning and inspection of your jewelry. We continue to work hard every day to earn your confidence and trust. Meduar Jewelers Hey Spartan fans. When you want the largest and best selection of Spartan gear, Alumni Hall is your ultimate shopping destination. Come get your officially licensed gear. Nike, Champion, Columbia, Yeti, new era hats, tailgating gear and more. MSU students, faculty and military receive 10% off in store every day. And you can earn cash back with their Hall Pass rewards. Alumni Hall, located in Eastwood Town Center near the Apple Store, or shop anytime at AlumniHall.com For the ultimate Spartan shopping experience, it's Alumni Hall. [music] Welcome back. It is the drive with Jack the Spotlight Radio Network. Jack, I'm here with my producer, Boston Rob. Rob, let's go right back to our guest line and down to West Palm Beach, Florida. Welcome in Gregory Eaton, very well known in MidMichigan, a tremendous business career, die-hard Spartan fan, and legendary follower of Super Bowls. Greg, are you watching this Michigan State basketball game down there? Yes, I am. Not what anyone expected. No, but, you know, when you play somebody that you know, it's hard. And he's playing in Western and playing hard for them. Yeah, yeah. I would say, whenever you come into a situation that you're a starting foreman, Jackson Kohler, your starting point guard, Jeremy Fiers, and your most electric player, Cohen Carr, none of them have a basket. And Michigan State now up 58-47, and that is with a 9-2 run. So Broncos cut it in the second half from a 13-point lead down to four, and imagine there are a few people there who are getting a little nervous. Yeah, they scored 10-4, and we didn't score any. [laughs] Well, they talk about it being a game of runs. Michigan State had a 13-0 run in the first half after Western had a lead. So, you know, this is as Tom Isol likes to say, New Year's Eve, the Super Bowl, everything all rolled into one for Western Michigan. And you can imagine what this means to Dwayne Stevens coming back here, where he played. Coach, for two decades, was it trusted he insisted that Tom Isol? The coach is not smiling much. He's keeping their face. He sees slow coming out his nose. Yeah, something tells me that there will be a spirited practice tomorrow. They go back to big 10-play Friday night in Columbus, Ohio against a Buckeye team that just beat Kentucky by 20. I didn't know that. Yeah, Ohio State is mercurial. Graduates, some days, they look great. Other days, they look like they've never seen a basketball before, and you don't know which day you're going to get them, but Michigan State will have to be ready for a team much tougher than Western Michigan. And you've watched Michigan State basketball. How long? Oh, well, 46. Since 1946. Wow. So my dad, I'd go to the games, yeah? So you saw close to 45 years before they even got into President Center. Oh, yeah, there was in Jonathan. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you've seen more games than that now in the Super Bowl. Can you tell us the story again about you and your buddy Herb Adderley and how it started that you went to Super Bowl 1 at L.A.? Yes. Well, Herb, you know, came to Michigan State. He came here in '58. I mean, '57, I was in high school, and I was playing basketball, football, and track at Sexton, and we made it a friendship. We got to be friends, and he would come to my games. And, you know, as a matter of fact, when I was at Sexton, I was hanging out at Michigan State because a lot of my classmates was older than me were at state, so I'd hung out at Michigan State a lot, you know? And I got to, you know, shit, I met a fact in the old days, I was riding my bike out and hanging out with Duffy Daugherty and Biggie Munn in the game, you know? Yeah. Well, Herb was from Philadelphia, originally, and primarily a running back at Michigan State, and then Vince Lombardi drafted him and didn't take him long to figure out, you know, we got something special here. We're going to put him on defense. Well, Herb told me he taught him how to run what his hit, run backwards. To run backwards and keep his eye on how to run backwards. Uh-huh. Whatever he taught him, it worked because he's one of the top ten cornerbacks, maybe one of the top ten defensive backs, in football history. This is the first one for Michigan State to go in the Hall of Fame. How about that? Michigan State in the Bronx. So when Herb said to you, "Hey, Greg, come on out to this game. Uh, you didn't have any problem getting tickets, right?" Oh, no. No. The tickets were 10, 8, and 6. Coliseum holds 100,000. They had about 45,000 students getting on people. So it wasn't 4. 45,000. It's a less than half full. Yes. Yeah. And it was the Packers and the Kansas City Chiefs. And the game was actually on two networks. There was a broadcast on NBC with Kurt Goudy. And there was a broadcast on CBS with Ray Scott was doing the commentary. Mm-hmm. And then the second year, it was the Packers again against the Raiders. And that one was in Miami. That was in Miami. That was in Miami. That was in Miami. That was in Miami. Yeah. They'd say, "I've visited them Anderson. Just signed that big contract with Green Bay." Donnie Anderson. And then the Herb was in. He just made a ton of money. He was a nice-looking, eating. The girls were hanging around him. Ha, ha, ha, ha. So when did you get with your group? Now it's down to three, right? Who bet they had a Super Bowl? Yeah. Well, Larry found me. And I was getting interviewed in Miami with Tony Dondry and Lovey. You know, they were the first two coaches, two black coaches to be in the Super Bowl. Yeah. So I told the press, "I can't lose. If there's anyone win, I'm going to win." Because I never thought I'd see two black coaches in a Super Bowl, you know, because when it started, it was, you know, that wasn't impossible. They did not even quarterback. And then when we went in and won, you know, I mean, and that was just good times. It was just changed the whole Super Bowl game, which, you know, the first two were world championships. The first Super Bowl was with Joe Nameth. Right. Super Bowl I was actually the third of these games because before that they didn't use that term. No, they were... Lamar Hunt's son came up with it, I think. The owner of the Kansas City Chiefs, Lamar Hunt, his son came up with the term Super Bowl. And it applied and it stuck. Sometimes you get a name like when Fred Stabley Jr. started calling Irvin Johnson Magic. Sometimes you find a nickname that is better than you could have imagined. And that's what it was with the Super Bowl. Now it's so trademarked, you can't even say it. But what you got, one of the coaches didn't like it. They said that's a crummy name, what a crummy name for the Super Bowl. And, you know, and it stuck. And, you know, it's famous today. Yeah, exactly. Well, Vince Lombardi winning the first two, and his name is all over the trophy. Yeah. They named after him, yeah. Yeah. So now we've got a Super Bowl in New Orleans. And last year, I think back to being in Santa Clara for the NFC Championship game. And I'm thinking, Greg, this is it. The Lions are going to do it the first time. I don't know why I would have played all second strings tomorrow night, tonight. Why would you rest at players? Yeah. Tonight, right? I mean, you've got the Lions. It's different if they want to lose tonight. Right. Right. What they're telling me now, you know, I'm watching TV and they're telling me that, you know. So you got your beat up anyway. So why don't you rest them? There's only one scenario, and it's a one in a thousand chance where it wouldn't matter. And that would be if the Lions lost, and then there was a tie with Minnesota. You know, they played the one overtime period, and if it wound up as a tie, then Minnesota would have an advantage with one more win. But if the Lions beat Minnesota, tonight is completely irrelevant. So I think from an injury standpoint. So what would you tell people is the highlight of going to Super Bowls? You've seen so many. You've seen the game evolve. Well, my highlight was, you know, when Williams went, been the first Black quarterback, and then the two coaches, there were my highlights. I mean, every, you know, there were some good games. I mean, I mean, you know, but I picked them up because I didn't think it would be happening, you know. And I just love the game. I think it's exciting. I really, when it's the soft spring or balance plate, I really get into it. I've always had decent seats. You know, I've had some under 50, and I had some in the corner, but now, you know, they send, we can buy two tickets. It was four hours, Larry died two years ago, and Larry found me, they were interviewing me in New Orleans, and he called me, he got ahold of me, said, "Would you like to join the Never Super Bowl Club?" I said, "I didn't know about it." And I said, "Yeah, I loved you." And so they invited me in, and I joined, and I've been with them, I got with them the 50th Super Bowl. Wow. You know, Jerry Green, a long time writer for the Detroit News, he invented everyone. Right, until his death, and then, so, you know, that was finally his last one he couldn't go to physically. But in the week, he had a machine with him, but he didn't go any more after that. That's right. Does the league take care of you in any way? We're the only two in the country from the state of Michigan that have been there every Super Bowl. So, what about the National Football League? How do they look at this, and do they treat you well? Well, the 50th, they're 50th Super Bowl, Larry and them, they got free tickets, free tickets, hotel, and they picked them up. But I wasn't in the club there, so I didn't get that. But I think they'd probably do it next year for the 60th. Yeah. But they should do it, I mean, it's only four of us left. I don't know the other gentlemen, but I know he's there. And you know, we had the green keeper from Green Bay, and we had my mom, Hunt's wife. We honored her last year at the Super Bowl, because she passed away before the Super Bowl. Right. Well, the word is that you have to keep doing this until the Lions get there, is that right? I'm going to keep doing it low, and I'm alive. I'm the last guy that you're winning this year. Greg, how old are you? I'm 85. I'm 85 and I see you at... 85 of the 7th this month, next month. Oh, bless you. I see you at meetings of the Greater Lansing Area Sports Hall of Fame selection committee. You're a very important part of that. And you look great. You look like you don't look like you're 85. I'll tell you that. I hope I look like that if I'm 85. I worked out. I work out. I do things. I mean, I've always loved sports and being a part of sports, and I think you've got to take care of yourself, and my business keeps me business, and I don't want to retire yet. I mean, I've been a lobbyist for 60, 62 years, you know? Can you believe that? 62 years is a lobbyist. And I think absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, tell us about some of the other business ventures you've had. You've been an entrepreneur. My big business, you know, I have 155 employees, and we're open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. That's a tough business. We never go to bed. Wow. And of course, you had the restaurant too, right? Yeah. Gregory stole for that. 56 years. Wow. Well, if you see Gregory eating around and you have any Super Bowl trivia, he'll probably know the answer because he has been to everyone. What do you think the Lions' chances are of getting there finally? Is this as good a team as you've seen from them? Yeah. I thought last game they played was the best game they played our year. Yeah. I mean, and we had injuries. We've had some good ball players out, but we should get some back. We should get some back. And I just think it's our turn. You've got to have a little luck now that we need to. Yeah. What do you like about this team? You've seen championship teams. I like the coach because he does things that he just does his way. And I'm like, you know, last week when we, you know, we lost that game, we, first of the way, we just gave him a touchdown. We should have, we should have pun it, you know, and then we went for that first down and he got the ball and we worked, you know, the store and that and we had to play a catch up with one of the best teams in the league right now. So if Dan Campbell said to you, Greg, do you think I go for it too much on four down? Would you tell him to be a little more conservative and punt the ball? Yeah. Yeah. But I might, I won't do that to the coach, because you say, who are you? I'm the coach. What do you say to Lance, but I think, I think he, after he did that, he, he, I don't think he'd do that again. I don't think he'd do it again. Yeah. So you learn from your mistakes. Well, I think it's about so many different coaches and I tell you what, the players love him. They're going through a wall. You have your players to run through a wall for you and he's, he's, he's, when they come out of the game, good or bad, he hung to this goal in. And I think that means a lot to the players. Greg, is there a lesson to be learned from Dan Campbell, for people who own businesses, for people who have employees about how to treat them or how to make them give you the maximum effort? Yeah. I think you, you learn that. I think you learn that. Most of the coaches will tell you that they learn that. I mean, and they got a good staff. I mean, you know, and, and other players, they're eating the, they're eating the food. They're feeding them and they're eating it and they're, and we, and that's why we're, we only got two losses. It seems weird that there's going to be a team with three losses and they're going to be a five seed. They're going to be on the road in the playoffs here. Yeah. I'll, I'll, I'll go to come down to next week with Minnesota. What impresses you about the Vikings. The Vikings are playing some of the basketball ball of any team in, in the league right now. Yeah. They have a lot of receivers and yesterday, Buffalo, Buffalo explained this. Yes. Yes. Yesterday, Greg, we saw Jalen Naylor from Michigan State come out and of course teams are doubling Justin Jefferson and you got Jordan Addison and you got TJ Hockinson and you got all these receivers and they forgot about Speedy Naylor. Next thing you know, he's in the end zone with the football. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. How much of your time in the winter do you spend in Florida? I, I spend four to five months down here. Yeah. I've been in Florida 50 years now. Wow. My place, Mike Doyle, who I grew up with, and, and, and, and he passed away, we, Mike had the only football when we were playing football and he'd take, you know, so, by sex scenario, he lived by sex. I lived on old Avenue and it went, you know, we became good friends and he, he bought some places in Florida at the Connolly Beach Tennis Racket Club in Longbow Key and he bought, he told me one and he sold, he didn't put no one. So we've, so I've been down here 50 years now. I mean, I mean, I've been in West Palm 17 years now. So how far are you from Mar-a-Lago? Mar-a-Lago. I'm, I'm a little way from Mar-a-Lago. Okay. Well, that's good. I'd rather be at your place anyway. Uh, but I like the sunset over on there on the, on the dog side and the sand is more like talcum powder. Yeah. Yeah. It's spectacular. If you haven't been there, it's a great place to visit. Greg, thanks so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. Hey. Yeah. And thank you, thank you for calling me and asking about it. I'll see you when I get home. You got it. Maybe I'll see you in New Orleans. That would be great. Are you going to come? Hey, if the lions are there, I'm going to be there. I don't know what's going to cost. All right. Well, you've got my number. I do. All right. I'm just going to tell people I know, Greg. Oh yeah. You should come. We have a big press conference on Thursday. Oh, really? Every Thursday. And you know, the foreign press is the best. They love us. Yeah. I'll bet. I'll let you know what time we're going to be there and we're there all afternoon. We have food. We've got a sponsor. They food us. They feed us and everything. That sounds pretty good, Rob. Sounds like I might have to be there just hanging out with Gregory Eden. A lot more places to be. Thank you. Thanks so much. All right. Second update on this basketball game, we're going to have Ricardo Kuni and Neil Kepke join us to talk a little Michigan State women's basketball and hockey, Spartan women dropping their second in a row. But this was a game. I don't think most people expected them to win going against unbeaten Maryland yesterday. That was a tough one for Michigan State. And they got 17 points down, came back, tied it up, had chances. And finally wound up losing that game by six. But I think they learned something and gained a lot of respect along the way. And Michigan State hockey, Rob Luca de Pasco with another shutout, Michigan State said four shutouts this year, two by Trey Augustine, as you might expect. And two by Luca, of course, Trey now is with the U.S. junior national team in the world juniors in Ottawa, and it's up to Trey, it's up to Luca to carry the team while he's gone and he's doing just that or did in the game last night against Northern Michigan. And now the Spartans will face Western Michigan, Western Michigan with a 4-3 overtime decision against Michigan Tech. So it'll be Western and Michigan State at the number six versus number one for the Great Lakes Invitational Championship tonight at Van Andel Arena, so that will be fun to watch as well. All right, we're down to three minutes and 30 seconds to go in this game at President Center. And the Spartans lead 67-56, tell you it's been the star of the game for Michigan State. And coming into the game, if I'd given you eight guesses, you wouldn't have picked it. Here the game's been Carson Cooper. Cooper has 11 points, five rebounds, four for five from the field, three for three at the line, five rebounds, two blocked shots, I don't know if Michigan State would be winning this game right now without Carson Cooper. It would be a one possession game. Instead the Spartans now are up by three and still doing that when you look at Jeremy Fears did score a basket. So it would take him out of the basketless club. But Jackson Kohler 0-4, Cohen Carr 0-3, Fears now does have three points in this game. So Spartans getting it from unlikely sources. J.N.Akins is leading Michigan State and he has 16 points. So Cooper will not become the eighth Spartan this year to lead the team in scoring. They'll stay at seven. And that's pretty amazing when you think about seven different players leading a team in scoring. All right. Rob, do we have Ricardo Cooney and Neil Kepke or either one of them with us? I thought we were going to go to break. Well, let's do that. Let's do that, shall we? Let's do that. Let's do that. And we'll come back and we'll talk some women's basketball and some hockey and we'll give you an update on the final score from Breslin Center. Be right back on the drive with Jack. To everyone who wants a meal made just for you, let our team member Arish, share what makes Culver special. We know the best meals are the ones shared with the people you love. Like our cook to order butter burgers and our real Wisconsin cheese curds and our creamy fresh frozen custard. I'll put the same care into your meal that I went from my own family. Order ahead on the app or Culver's.com for a meal made the Wisconsin way. From Wisconsin with love, welcome to Delicious. Hey Spartan fans. When you want the largest and best selection of Spartan gear, Alumni Hall is your ultimate shopping destination. 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And we offer you our customer the highest level of quality on repairs and custom designs. Whether it's worn out prongs, channels or shanks, it's all handled with incredible care. Meduar Jewelers in Lansing, Okamas, Jackson and Portage want to help you preserve your memories and offer you options on creating new ones. Come in today for the cleaning and inspection of your jewelry, we continue to work hard every day to earn your confidence and trust. Meduar Jewelers. Welcome back, it is the drive with Jack, Spotlight Radio Network. I have a couple of here with my producer, Boston Rob, you know, Jeff Heward. Always says Michigan State can score 80 points in the game, it is very tough to beat. And he's right, Michigan State didn't look like they were going to get there. And then with a late flurry, now with 13 seconds to go, it's Michigan State 80, Western Michigan 62. I had a 20-point lead just a few seconds ago, and I'm sure that Michigan State will dribble out the clock here. So it'll be an 18-point win, that's not the 27-and-a-half-point win that they were predicted to have in Vegas, but time is it will take it. And I think Michigan State was going to play a bad game this week or have a disappointing effort, pick the right day to do it, because if it plays this way, Friday night in Columbus, it will not be undefeated in the Big 10 anymore. Looking at the leading scores in this game, I think you're going to find Jay Nakens with 16, excuse me, 18 leading the way for Michigan State and Carson Cooper, 13 points, 13.6 rebounds, 5 for 6 from the field, amazing performance for Koop. Michigan State also had some recruits there, including Stephen Reynolds III from South Bend, and he's a guy that Thomas has been watching for a long time. SR3, they call him, and he was just messaging that he was there and having a great time watching the game. Okay. A lot going on today, Rob, I don't remember on Monday, where you had Michigan State basketball in the afternoon, Michigan State hockey for a championship at night, and the Detroit Lions on Monday night football. I don't think we have seen that before, but we do now, and we want to welcome in Ricardo Cooney and Neil Kepke, they are our hockey panel, and much, much more. Gentlemen, I want to start with women's basketball, Rico, and what happened yesterday, Michigan State going into Hornet's Nest at Maryland, Maryland might be the best team in the Big 10, not in Southern California. Seems like USC and UCLA could almost be in a different division, but there are some other teams, Ohio State is undefeated, Maryland, you look at some others, Michigan State, Michigan very impressive, even Iowa, a team that lost to Michigan State in Breslin. So what did you make of the game yesterday, and what did Michigan State learn with that big comeback, tied it after being down 17, and then could it quite finish? Well, here's the problem with that, Jack, they were playing chase, and you spend all your energy playing chase, and you get down to the point where it's closing time, and you're kind of out of gas at that point, because they spent a lot of effort facing Maryland, and that's not a good recipe for a victory, but I think going into a game coming up here, they got to jump on the opponent, and look to deliver a knockout blow, and the other thing too, Jack, is Ben Flute didn't have a good game, and I mean, if you look at that, they lost by six, right? Yes. So let's add 10 points to Vance Luton's total, and I think they win the game, but yes, she didn't have a good game, and again, playing chase against Maryland and College Park, not a good recipe. Yeah, and even at the end of the game, Rico, it was a two-point deficit, Michigan State had two chances, had a missed layup by Theron Hallock, who had a terrific game, she had 20 points, and then Jocelyn Tate was going in for what looked like a tying layup, and traveled. Yeah, you can't make those kinds of mistakes at crunch time against a team like Maryland on the road. Exactly, exactly. I mean, you go into that environment, that atmosphere, and a Brenda Freeze team, mistakes cannot be part of your recipe. So what does Michigan State learn from this, and, you know, schedule doesn't get a whole lot easier. You've got the teams in California, you've got a road trip out there. We don't get to see Juju Watkins in Brussels Center this year. Michigan State has to head out to the Galen Center and the Poly Pavilion. You could be a really good team in the Big Ten, whether it's Ohio State, Minnesota, Michigan State, Michigan, Iowa, whatever. Really good, and finished fifth or sixth? Yeah, I mean, I think it's the best conference right now in Williams College basketball, because at one point, I think there were eight teams from the Big Ten that were ranked in the top 25. And even though I think they've lost one or two teams, doesn't matter. I mean, Illinois is playing at a high pace. I mean, so you got like maybe five teams in the Big Ten that aren't playing well, and don't count on Nebraska, because they were at one point right there in the top 25. So yeah, I think what Michigan State learned, and I don't think it's a big learning curve, but they understand that every night in this conference, this season, is going to be, is going to be a load. Would you be surprised, Rico, if I told you the Big Ten women's basketball champion was not going to come from the state of California? Yeah, yeah, I would be, because I just think those both those teams, USC and UCLA are, are top notch. Now, listen, let's not count up Maryland. I think Maryland will have a shot at it too. But yeah, I would say one of those two teams will win the Big Ten. Rico is Michigan State women's basketball, entertaining enough to get Neil Keptke, up off his couch to shut off the hockey replays, and get him over to Preston Center to watch a game. He went to the game at Wisconsin last year, so we should be able to get him over there for our MSU women's game, right? Right, because I mean, you know, that's almost blasphemous, the fact that he doesn't go to a Michigan State women's basketball game until he's out of the state. Yeah, Neil, what are we going to see over Breslin? Probably sometime in the calendar year 2025, probably mid February after a Saturday, party Saturday hockey series. I'll get up and go and see the women play on, they don't play my Buckeye, but at home. But there's a couple of games I've got my eye on right now, Rico. So we're going to we're going to have some fun over there. Are you in Grand Rapids? Are you on the way as we speak, Neil? I am in Clarksville, Michigan. You talk about the last train to Clarksville? Well, I arrived here in Clarksville. I'm sitting in front of a church, parked in a spot. This is senior adult parking only. So I think I fit the the mode here. But I'm about like 45 miles, 35 miles away from Grand Rapids. Rico, does Neil, Neil need to be in front of a church? I was, you know, the prayers and healing again, right? I was going to make a reference there, Jack, but this is a family show. And but I don't know about Neil being in front of a church. I don't know if that's a good grub. It hasn't fallen down yet. So we're safe. Neil, last yesterday, last night, Michigan State with a two nothing win over Northern Michigan. Again, not a lot of offense. I guess I'm expecting more from this Michigan State hockey team. They're having a little bit of a tough time scoring goals, but defense has been terrific. This is the four shutout to from each goaltender. And a lot of people who said, wow, Michigan State will lose the Great Lakes Invitational because Trey Augustine is at the World Juniors. Are they forgetting that Luca de Pasco is pretty good too? Or will he be exposed tonight against the Broncos? Well, we'll see because obviously Western is a much better team. Although when you look at Western's roster, Jack, compared to last year, I highly recognize anybody. And I really looked at it and I thought these guys must be doing something right because they're number six in the country, maybe even higher now after today's poll. But the Spartans just had a lot of shots, a lot of chances, but aren't bearing the chances. They're not finishing as well as they should. And they should have probably scored about five or six goals. I think Daniel Russell missed about three. He could add a hat trick and Dore were missed a breakaway. And yeah, they played good defense. And Pasco, when he had to, made a couple big saves that could have turned the game and given Northern some life, but a couple of breakaways and point blank shots, he was there. So we'll see how he does today. He's got two shutouts in a row and now he's placing a different team that is like one of the top teams in the NCHC and obviously the country. So we'll see this is a good test and probably a better test that they would have had at Michigan Tech would have won. So I'm sure happy to see that because they're going to be in games like this the rest of the season when they play Michigan four times by Minnesota two more. And a lot of improving teams in the Big Ten. So this should be fun tonight to see just where they or they stand among the national teams when they playing them on a neutralized. Neil, when you think about Michigan States, I don't call them droughts, but seems like there are games where they get a billion shots and the puck doesn't get into that. They get an awful lot of shots blocked too. Is this something that just goes and stretches and once it changes, Michigan State's going to have some five or six goal games? Yeah, I think so. I'm not sure that the six or five, but if you can get four and used to be in the last 10 years, the first one to three goals in college hockey won because of the way play defense and goal kidding was very good. Now sometimes you don't have to get four because there's some good offensive players out there, especially among the top teams. So in order to win the NCAA title, yeah, you have to have defense, but you have to be able to finish. And that's what Michigan State is having trouble a little bit now doing, but we'll see what happens tonight and obviously Thursday when they play Wisconsin for the first of two games on the weekend. But I'm excited about the tonight's game just to see how a team like Western responds because Western got knocked off by Michigan State in the regional last year. They had a three to one lead end up getting tied or four to two lead end up getting tied by the Spartans in the third and lost in overtime. So I assume Michigan or Western Michigan players remember that game more than the Spartans do, and they're probably looking for some payback tonight. Yeah, my memory of that game against Western Michigan is this fanatic pounding on the glass. And now you looked over and it's Tom Izzo. That's right. You can say it in the first row. Yeah, yeah. Rico, when you think about Western and obviously ranked where they are, they're ranked ahead of Michigan, you think, okay, well, this is going to be Michigan State and Western for the championship. It's all set up that way. But the Broncos are a little bit fortunate to be playing in the championship game. What happened last night and how did Michigan Tech a team that I don't think anyone thought would would beat Western take him into overtime? Well, me and Neil talked about this a little bit before the match ups, Michigan Tech always plays well in the GLI. They can have like one of the worst teams in the country, but when they get to the GLI for whatever reason, they embrace it and they play well. And it may have been a little bit too of Western going, well, it's only Michigan Tech. And Michigan Tech going, hey, I don't care. We want this. Let's go. Let's go try to get it. And Western almost got caught. They almost got caught. Neil, going back through the history of this event, no one better to talk college hockey history within you. This has kind of been Michigan Tech's event. But going back through the years where Michigan State dominated and then Michigan had some some good runs there. Where does this tournament rank among the best in college hockey? Well, it used to be the premier hockey tournament at Christmas time besides the Beanpot, which is still, but the Beanpot is a separate thing. It's two Mondays in February and four Boston schools are in it. And so it's not a holiday thing. And yet this tournament here was always at Christmas, always in Detroit until a couple of years ago. And obviously it's been at Olympia. It's been at Jolou Serena. It's been a America part. And it really is one of the top. And they're trying to do keep the legend and the history going in Grand Rapids. And I think last night's crowd was amazing, Jack. The first game, it was jammed. And then obviously when Spartan people pulled in, it was a sellout. And hopefully tonight will be the same because you've got two great teams. In the state of Michigan battling, probably the two best teams. So, yeah, it isn't important. And I'm glad to see that Michigan State, Michigan Tech as co-runners of the tournament are, you know, focused and admitted to make this happen, make this work. And so it's Michigan State and all the time and they bring in two other teams on a varying basis, trying to keep it with local with state teams. So you draw some fans. Next year, it's Miami and Ferris State in the tournament. And I really thought Michigan State would play Miami. But now I'm thinking maybe it's going to be Ferris State again, even though they seem to keep playing them in the first round over the last like five years or so. How does Miami get into this tournament if the idea is to keep it all in Michigan? Well, I think Notre Dame was supposed to come and Notre Dame turned it down. I'm not sure it was last or next year or the year after, but I know I asked the question in the presser about his Notre Dame coming soon because I had heard that they weren't, but they have like changed their minds and they're going to go someplace else. And so I think they needed a team and they don't want to bring Northern back again. And so Western likes to be in it like every other year and play some other things to give their players a different experience. And so I think Miami was close and Miami has been it before. So it was like natural that maybe some of the alumni from the state of Michigan and Chicago would maybe come and all that. But the way Czech fans are in it for the Christmas holidays and mob the place really, and the bands there, and this is a big deal for Czech. This is there like Super Bowl in a way. And then Michigan State now, you know, saying that our fans on the West side, their fans, let's come and see because you can't come to Mun now and we're not in Detroit, so this is an opportunity for Michigan State fans to see a team not in Monorina talking with Ricardo Coney and Neil Kepke before tonight's GLI final. Neil, do you remember the first Great Lakes Invitational you saw? Yeah, I do. I believe it was, I missed the first seven, but I saw the next one. I think that was 1972 when I was covering Michigan and Michigan went very good that year and they got beat, but it basically exposed me to like, well, this is something big. I knew John McGinnis, I knew who Tech was. At that time, Michigan Tech was the team to beat in the state of Michigan. They were the premier. Everybody that had a program like Michigan State, new coaches and stuff, they basically said, we got to like live up to Michigan Tech standards. And now Michigan Tech is obviously trying to live up to Michigan and Michigan State standards in a way, but yeah, I remember it very well. And for me, this is number 49 for me out of like 58. So I think the streak is at like 32 in a row since I missed it in 1984 when I spent that Christmas in Arizona with some in-laws and out-laws. More in-laws or out-laws? I think more out-laws, yeah. Well, I didn't think I'd be saying this, Rico. I saw a GLI before Neil did. Wow. Yes. It was the first college hockey game that I ever saw and it was the only college hockey game that I saw until I got to Michigan State. But it was, I want to say, 1967 because Michigan State was the national champion, the defending champion, right? Yeah, they were. Yeah. And I saw the first round matchup and I don't remember whether Michigan State played Tech seems like they might have played North Dakota, not sure. Anyway, I saw that game. My dad got tickets and we went down there. We didn't really know what we were watching. We'd been down there a bunch for the Red Wings, but we said, "Well, you know, let's just see what these college kids can do." And Michigan State had Doug Volmar who had been an important player and then went on to the Red Wings and they'd had some players Doug Roberts, another one. So we went down there to Olympia Stadium and so I guess I can say that I've got more GLI history than Kepke does. However, Jack, I have more history with Doug Volmer than you do. You watched him play. I played against him in Cleveland when he was a scourge of the Cleveland Muni Hockey League. You're the one who shot him out, right? No, I shut out Kenny Volkak in 1964. But Volmer used to shoot from center rights and he had such a great cannon. It wasn't one of the hardest shots in college I could ever. And in the NHL for a while. And he, I think a couple times shot the puck from center ice, blue line and at night at Woodland Hills Park and it went right over my shoulder and I said, "Where did that puck go?" And then when I heard the back bar, I thought, "Oh, it went in the net." Oh, I guess I missed that shot. Love Doug Volmer. I think we had done some predictions on this the last time you guys were on. And Neil, you said that you thought Western would win this tournament. You also said Michigan State would win the Big Ten regular season, but Minnesota would win the Big Ten tournament and then Michigan State would win the national title. So you give Michigan State a better chance to win the national title than you do to win tonight? Yeah, I think it's due for Western to make their case. Although they won it I think two times. It's not a shot for them. But I just think that the way Michigan States are playing offensively, whatever, I just thought that Western is going to come in there with a lot of ammunition, a lot of retribution in their minds and I think they'll do it. But then again, whoever wins this thing means nothing to what happens in March when the NCAA tournament starts because both teams are headed for a regional somewhere. Neil, how does Western Michigan get a sixth ranked hockey team? I mean, I know there are a lot of teams that have won NCAA hockey titles that the names wouldn't seem familiar to non-hockey fans, but how is Western Michigan better than some of these Big Ten teams? Well, good coaching number one, good recruiting and developing and they've, you know, since their coach has been in that first whileer who's got NHL experience with nightgale as an assistant and flying around the country with those two, they've become close. But yeah, he's done a great job there and Annie Murray did a great job before that and Jeff Boschel had won great year there too. So it is a sort of a sleeping giant. They can't really get to the frozen floor, but they certainly have a good regular season and very few dips. Maybe they'll be like in the middle of the pack, but Jack this year, for whatever reason, I think because they lost several players from last year's team, which, you know, went to the regional, they were picked sixth in the NCHC, which is really crazy looking now because they're probably in the NCHC. They're the top team, I believe, because they're better than, well, there's behind Denver. So it's Denver and Western right now and North Dakota's coming on, but still Western has been a big surprise to a lot of people. All right, Rico, do you agree with Neil that Michigan State will not win another GLI tonight? Yeah, I still, I'm going to go back with what I said earlier when we talked. I'm still going to take Western and I said the only reason was because Michigan State didn't have to reorganize the team, but the Pascal was trying to make us all look like fools. Yeah, he certainly played well enough last night. I'm going to be something if he got back-to-back shutouts and was the GLI MVP? Yeah, and I think if he does that, then he may need to go to nine-year-olds office and talk about getting a few more games. Yeah, or think about if Trey Augustine's coming back for another year, maybe I should look at somewhere else. I can play. Yeah, pretty good, pretty good backup goaltender. All right, gentlemen, thanks so much. Really appreciate it. Neil, have fun tonight. Rico, we'll talk to you soon. All right, guys. Yeah. We're going to stay right here, Rob, and welcome in Jim Stark, Executive Director of the Michigan Sports Legacy Conservancy, dedicated to preservation of sports in the state of Michigan. Normally, we see Jim on Tuesdays, but up here for the game today, Jim, this wasn't what anyone expected. Michigan State, maybe as big a spread as this have all year, a Western team that had really been struggling, and they only led by four in the second half. Yeah, you know, Jack, if it was one of those, you and I talked about it before, we've seen these Mac teams play this state. They get nothing to move, and everything to win. They go out there, and they play there, their heads off, and they shoot those trees, and they, if they make a few threes, all of a sudden, they're in the game, and Michigan State did not shoot well early, and they didn't shoot well in the middle. But they fortunately shot well enough to win the game, but that's why I think playing Mac teams is always a chill because they got them removed. Yeah, if I had told you, coming into the game today, that Jackson Kohler and was not going to have a basket, Cohen Carr wasn't going to have one until very late. Jeremy Fiers wasn't going to have one until very late, but for more than 30 minutes, those three players, key players, were not going to have a basket. You needed somebody else to step up, and I don't think anyone figured it would be Carson Cooper day. Well, Carson Cooper played, I'd say he played like a guy whose hair was on fire. He was getting rebound, he was boxing out, he was getting put back. One time, Jack, I have no idea how he got the ball from the Bronco. Because he was at the fire end, you know, you can't really see as quick. Well, all of a sudden, he reaches around him because of the ball and lays up for a put back. But I still know how I got it. It was amazing. I thought the Bronco had like it down around his stomach, but somehow Carson got the end in there. But yeah, he was, he played a time as though kind of a game for me, time as though love Carson Cooper out there today. So, Aiken's led the team in scoring, but what was Michigan State not doing? That it led 59 or 49 45 in the second half. They weren't scoring in transition, Jack. He was doing a good job getting back on the break and cutting them off and they weren't getting a lot of layup. Believe it or not, a lot of their shots were from the steps, you know, the steps in the place. And they shot okay from three. But like you say, Jay Bakes had a good look at, he shot very well today. Booker did not shoot well. They gave me two points, right? And that was on a swab dunk of a great alley. But he didn't shoot well. So, they didn't shoot off the outside. The guys he needed to Aiken, they didn't score well in transition. Yeah. And you look at the rebounds. That wasn't what people expected Michigan State was plus seven, but it was even for a long time. And the one thing Michigan State has done great all year, actually two things. They've done well all year today. We're not able to run as well, but they're number one in the nation in fast breakpoints. But again today, at the free throw line, how about 20 out of 22? That's 90.9, 909 at the line. And they say, if you can make 20 free throws a game, you got a great chance to win. And when you can make three more than your opponents attempt, Western was just seven for 17. So that's plus 13 for Michigan State at the foul line. Well, they didn't play inside very much. They really worked from the outside. You didn't see them driving a lot and go on fouls. But they had some length, Jack. They had three guys who were six foot nine or better. And then a lot of times they had two of them out there are all three different times. That's why I think Rebound was more than we would have thought. But again, get wasted a lot of credit. He goes for the Michigan State team. He coached his team to Michigan State. That's what he did. And it almost worked. Wow. So were you there when Duane was talking to Tom? I know before the game, they sat down together on the bench and reminiscing a little bit. Yeah, I saw him. Yeah. What do you think that was like for those two? Well, I think, in the brief, you know, you've talked to coach a lot more than I have, but I think he's as proud of his coaching tree as she is of anything else he's done. The fact that he's able to help these young coaches learn to craft, learn a job, and get these head coaches. I think that he was a proud pop of much of anything else today with one of his kids, quote unquote, you know, coming back to play at the big house after with the zone head coaching job. So that to me is what I saw, what I would imagine what was going on. All right, I want to switch sports and move on to tonight in Santa Clara, California, the Lions against the Niners. And unless there's a bizarre situation where Detroit and Minnesota would have a tie game in week 18 tonight means absolutely nothing. So are you surprised that Dan Campbell is going to play everybody and treat it like the Super Bowl? No, no, no, why do you say it means why you say it means nothing? You're saying, no, what do you do tonight? If the Lions beat the Vikings next week, they'll win the okay. Well, the Lions lose tonight and beat Minnesota. They're the one seat. If they win tonight and lose to Minnesota, they're the five seat. Well, I tell you, I don't think Dan Campbell ever plays a game. He's a lot like coach though. There's no such thing as an off night, an off game, an unimportant possession. And I think every game he plays, he plays the same way and has to win. Now, I think you saw that in some of the games earlier where some of these guys, you might have liked that, didn't take them out earlier with some of these big, you know, 20-point leads. You can do it though. He needs them in. He wants to run the offense. He runs with, but I'll tell you right now, they better score supports in a jacket. They will not win in the defense. That defense last week has been just not very good. And it's because they've lost so many players. They got guys who got off the bargain rack. And guys, I think we're tired coming out to play, but they've got to score a lot of points. They got to outscore them because they will not stop. I don't think they won't. I think the four to that score for sure, at least. I understand the idea that you don't want to completely take your foot off the gas and tell guys to go through the motions. That's actually when a lot of injuries occur. But with a number of injuries the Lions have had, I would think twice about playing Jared Gough tonight. I would too, especially with the signing of Teddy Grigwater. I mean, you know, and if you've got Bridgewater, you've got it for one reason. You've got it because you might need to play him in the playoffs, right? But why not give him some game experience? You know, you have to play in the year. It was down coast in Florida, goes to high school. So yeah, give him a half on the field. Let him get some in there. That's what I would do. But you know what? There's no, I think the AK handled does not believe, even when they were up Jack, they were up, you know, a couple of days, they're up 30 some points. He should only put, you know, took off out late in the fourth quarter. So I don't, I don't, I don't see him doing it. But that's what I would do. I would want to get Teddy Grigwater some game action. All right. I want to switch cats and go to the Detroit Tigers, labor Torres after seven years with the Yankees. I think he had four years where he had 20 homers and one season had 38 has going to be the Tigers second baseman, it seems. What does that pickup do for you? Well, to me, it almost is surprising that signing, which I didn't see coming, is the move of cool Keith, the first base. And basically you're telling Spencer, you don't job right now. That to me, Jack has as much impact as anything. This is a guy that was the number one overall draft pick three years ago. He's been every day landed now, I think for the last two seasons at least. And you're saying, you know what, you're, you have no job. That to me says an awful lot about A, the confidence that cold Keith, but B, the lack of confidence is spent to torque us. Could Tarkelson be their everyday DH? Absolutely. He could, he could do one thing, Jack. One thing and one thing only to be able to keep his job in this team and that's it. If he comes out in the spring training and starts hitting and then it's not it enough, he will absolutely have a job. There's no question about it. He's that kind of a hitter or can be and the Tigers need a hitter, but they're not going to carry a guy hitting, you know, 180, 190 with a, with a, with a five or 600, uh, 100, um, OPS, especially when you got a, that's, that's your power department, you know, I think one out of patience with, with spectra program, that's what that move tells me. But yeah, he can still play for him. All you've got to do is hit. So do you think the Tigers are done in free agency or would you still expect to see Alex Bregman at third base? Well, I don't know that. I talked to Rob off, uh, when we came back to the phone earlier, I should, you know, I'm wondering, Alex Bregman is not getting his $220 million deal or he'd have it already. Okay. Right. So I'm wondering if the Tigers and what I'm hearing is the Tigers and Scott Ford are making progress. I'm wondering if they're going to front load the contract and say, okay, we'll pay your, your 35 million a year, whatever that top dollar is, but only for three or four years. So all we're on the hook for is a 120 million, 130 million. We'll pay those four years, but we're not paying you for six or eight years and we're not getting that 200. That's what I wonder if it's happening and more else can keep it, more else can keep it pride. He keeps by saying, well, uh, it's got, uh, you know, uh, Alex Bregman is getting paid. He's the highest paid third baseman connection, whatever it might be. That's what I'm wondering what's happening right now is they're changing the way the contract might look, front load it and get him for a shorter period of time. Are you surprised, Jim, that players seem to want these long-term contacts, contracts? Is there at 30 or 31? Maybe they want to have this money guaranteed for a long period of time, but wouldn't you rather have the bigger money down? And then if you decide at 35, you want to retire, no one's going to have to hold a benefit for you. Well, look at a tiny, most of his contract was all, was all delayed. So I don't get why the teams want to have that kind of debt in their books. I don't understand that. But be like you said, if I'm a player, I'm getting paid in tomorrow's dollars, right? Why don't I get paid in today's dollars and let me have it now, and I'll do what I want with it. But that's why I don't, I don't see this being a deferred contract at all, but I just wonder if they aren't figuring out a way to, to, to, to front load it, paying me even more now, maybe they didn't even make me worth, like get out of that long-term five, six, eight-year deal and get me that $200 million, uh, mark, that's what I, I'm sure they don't want to get close to that. Well, the Tigers definitely needed a right-handed bat and they needed some more pop, and they got someone who's got a bat at or near the top of the order. So, labor Torahs and Alex Breggman are not that different. Maybe there's a difference defensively and a difference in terms of the position they play in the infield. But given the fact that they've added that kind of punch, would you rather see him take the money and try to help the pitching staff? No, I, I don't think they have added enough, Jack. I think, if you look at labor Torahs, he had a good 26, 28-home run season, but not in the last couple of years. Just powers, definitely diminished in these last few years. I don't see him being a 20-home run. I think he might be 18, 6, and 8, though the Tigers need a 30 to 35, uh, year, uh, home of a year, a guy somewhere, okay? Well, that's right, man. Well, it might, he might be, he might be 25 and, and, and Torah's just 10, or 12, maybe you add them together. But, but Torah's alone does not fill the hole and, and the less, unless, um, of the only guy, the latter, really has that, that kind of history, is, is corporates and he's out in the lineup right now. So, unless he comes out in the spring training and really fixes whatever is ailing him from the swing, the Tigers are still, uh, about 20, at least 20 home runs a year short in this lineup. All right, I, I want to talk for a minute about the Red Wings in the Pistons and Todd McClellan, now taking over the Red Wings, and, uh, he's supposedly, uh, the answer for this team, and got to win yesterday over the Washington Capitals 4 to 2. But what is it that makes people assume, okay, we got a new coach, we fixed the problem when the guy who hired that coach is the same guy who hired the last coach. Well, I, I'm not sure they've assumed the problems and fix. I think the problems that I identified, and it wasn't very long, it took Todd very long to identify the problem. They are working hard enough, they're not playing as a team well, they're playing the separate players, he said, and he, and apparently that's what he said to the whole, he had one practice so far since he got the job before Sunday, before the game yesterday, and they, and they played much better as a team. So, I don't know if they, if they saw that they've identified it, saw them and he went up to the players as much as the coach, but I think they liked the fact that this guy has had the highest success in the NHL level, except for winning a Stanley Cup, and they didn't have that, uh, with, with, with the last couple of guys. I mean, they've had some good track records, but not at this level. So, so we'll see, but Steve Eisman, hey, he's got a track record, he won in, he won in, um, in Tampa, and he's still Steve Eisman. So, he, he, he couldn't stand, but he did make a change, the clone's got a lot of NHL experience. He played one with a Stanley Cup with the Red Wings last time they wanted, so there's a lot of, of behind-the-scenes stuff that maybe you might add up to more of a positive, but I don't think anyone's saying the problem solved yet. I think they, they want to see it get solved by guys playing better. All right, Jim, last thing for you, did he try to piss up? Before, yeah, I did my research check. Yeah, yeah. He talked, he asked me about, is there an N-N-N-N-B-A coach where I would say he's worth a, a first-self, actually. Yes. The only guy I think, maybe, maybe there's three. I mentioned this both for the other day, I'm going to add Greg Ponce at Popovich to that list. However, if you look at his record the last five years, he struggled to get the 500. He was phenomenal before that. So, maybe he's passed his prime, and I would, I would maybe put Steve Kerr on that list, except for Steve Kerr, the only place his coach really, essentially, is in, is in gold, say, and he's an amazing team. So, I'm not sure if he's a great coach or he's got a great team. And then maybe I'd throw out there Tom Pippet all made it. There aren't many other coaches I would say I would pick and say he could be, might take my team and beat his team and then vice versa. But, but, but pop, I would say Popovich Kerr and Bobby Spolstra are my three. All right. How many championships has Spolstra won? Uh, I think, was it two or no, I think it's three and Popovich has five, I think. Okay. Well, yeah. Pop, we know it. Yeah, 25 years old. Tony Parker and yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, but he, he won with different crew, with different crews and he won gold medals and he, you know, so he's got, but I just think maybe he doesn't, maybe like some today's players, like you'd like, but, but Spolstra is only 54. And so, but there aren't that, to me, a lot of great NBA coaches right now, at least with a long track record. Carlisle's probably got the longest. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, what happened to the Pistons now that they have, until last night, a better record than the Red Wings and have matched their entire win total from the previous season. They had as many wins 14 in the first 31 games as they had an 82 games last year. Well, part of the reason they're playing better is they've addressed the three-point shooting lag. If you look at the stats, you know, certainly the starters are shooting better as a team, at least, at least to some level, some degree. But, but that was one of the biggest problems they had last year, Jack. And we talked about it before. The best teams have multiple players who can shoot from three, not just two guys. And every time you see that the Celtics play, everyone can shoot three, right? So, so, so they have, but I think they've made some progress. Kate Cunningham is shooting about 37%. J-90 is shooting almost 39% and the league is shooting 41%. And they really are taking most of the three. So those three guys have helped the three-point percentage immensely. Devised Harris has not played as well and that shot as well. After that, it falls off pretty quickly. You get a little bit from Tim Hardaway and Simone about Technio. But after that, you know, Ron Holland and all the content, they got nothing, nothing. So they've addressed it a little bit, but they took a long way to go if they're going to be NBA caliber three-point shooting team. All right. Sorry I missed you today, but I'll catch up to you early in 2025. I was honored to stick in the, in the, uh, in the ebbly media seats, Merritt Breslin. It was a, it was an honor. All right, Jim. Happy New Year. We'll talk to you next year. They'll be you in the lectures and we'll talk to you next week. You got it. We'll be right back. And, uh, Rob, we're going to talk to my best friend, Marty McInan, the guy who I made the pilgrimage out to Santa Clara in January with. And, uh, West Coaster, uh, Larry Herman, pair of distinguished international economists and they live, eat, breathe, sleep, Detroit Lions. So we'll get their take on what the Lions should do tonight and much, much more coming up on the drive with Jack. Hey Spartan fans. When you want the largest and best selection of Spartan gear, Alumni Hall is your ultimate shopping destination. Come get your officially licensed gear. Nike, champion, Columbia, Yeti, new era hats, tailgating gear and more. MSU students, faculty and military receive 10% off in store every day. And you can earn cash back with their hall pass rewards. Alumni Hall, located in Eastwood Town Center near the Apple Store or shop anytime at alumnihall.com. For the ultimate Spartan shopping experience, it's Alumni Hall. 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Jack Eblen here is my good friend Matt Sloane at Graph of Alchemist. Lots of excitement at the two dealerships. What's new with Chevy and Nissan? Well, Jack, great question. At Nissan, everybody seems to be talking about interest rates. We're offering 0% financing on new vehicles and we have the all-new completely redesigned 2025 kicks on the lot and ready for delivery. It is fantastic. At Chevy, same thing. People are talking about interest rates. Guess what? We have 0% financing on new and as low as 1.99 used. You got to come check it out. Great time to get a car and great place to do it. Graph of openness. Hey Spartan fans. When you want the largest and best selection of Spartan gear, Alumni Hall is your ultimate shopping destination. Come get your officially licensed gear. Nike, champion, Columbia, Yeti, new era hats, tailgating gear and more. MSU students, faculty and military receive 10% off in-store every day and you can earn cash back with their Hall Pass rewards. Alumni Hall, located in Eastwood Town Center near the Apple Store or shop anytime at AlumniHall.com. For the ultimate Spartan shopping experience, it's Alumni Hall. To everyone who wants a meal made just for you, let our team member, Arish, share what makes Culver special. We know the best meals are the ones shared with the people you love, like our cook to order butter burgers and our real Wisconsin cheese curds and our creamy fresh frozen custard. I put the same care into your meal that I went for my own family. Order ahead on the app or Culver's.com for a meal made the Wisconsin way. From Wisconsin with love, welcome to Delicious. Welcome back. It is the drive with Jack the Spotlight radio network. Jack Ebling here with my producer, Boston Rob. Michigan State basketball today, kind of lackluster effort. 80-62 win over Western Michigan. Pulled away late. I had a 13-point lead at halftime and then kind of on a treadmill for a while after that. Michigan State hockey tonight against Western Michigan. Number one and number sixth in the nation going at it for the Great Lakes Invitational title, but so much focus on the Detroit Lions and what they're going to do tonight out in Santa Clara and what they should be trying to do with the importance or lack thereof for this game, knowing that everything will be on the line the next week when Minnesota comes into Ford Field. Very happy to welcome in a pair of distinguished economic leaders and guys who I do podcast with on a weekly basis. Marty McEnin from Bethesda, Maryland and Larry Herman from Southern California. Guys, the Lions and the Niners, this is not the game we thought it would be in terms of importance. Larry, as you look at where the Lions are, you want Dan Campbell to be resting some people? You know, I would want him to be resting people and I think that it would be the smart thing to do, but Dan Campbell's successful doing what he does. And if he worked to change what he's doing, it might actually change the chemistry in that locker room and out in the field. So what I'm hoping is he's going to, as he's claimed, put the standards out there, they build up enough of a cushion and he feels comfortable taking a lot of the standards out and sort of dialing back on some of the plays and they certainly avoid any further injury. Marty, it only takes one play to get hurt and it can be in pregame warm-ups, but if this is a competitive game in the second half, would you expect to see Jared Goff taking steps? I'm hoping that we'll see Hendon Hooker at the end of the first quarter. That would probably be a good idea, or hey, Teddy Bridgewater, right? Is he in uniform tonight? I hope he's in uniform, bring him in for the second half. So let Hooker get hurt either. All right, Marty, thinking back to where we were in January, we had a great time out there, except for the second half of the football game, thinking back to that night and what you were thinking, you were sitting in the stands. I was up in a press box, but when the Lions led 24 to 7, were you thinking, this is it? Going to the Super Bowl? Yeah, I mean, that certainly crossed my mind and also, you know, crossed my mind that Kendall Vildor might have put his hands around that ball instead of letting it hit him in the faith mask. And we might be talking about a repeat. Larry, how much do you think the Lions are thinking about that game have thought about that game? Do the coaches try to make them understand what happened there has no relevance to now? Do they want it to sting a little bit? What happened there? Do you think they've watched that game as a team? Do you think they've just said, hey, that was then, and this is now? Well, I think probably the point of the game all year long, and even up the, well, even up the yesterday, we thought that the game might actually mean something really important. So it's really hard to dial that down after you've been saying, okay, this is our chance for revenge, our chance to show where we belong in the number one seed and all that sort of stuff. So, but on the other hand, I mean, I'm always impressed by how most of the players and all the coaches are sensible and don't let emotion get the better of them, and some players do unfortunately. So I'm hoping that Campbell is going to be able to say to them that, look, we want to win this game, but this game is the least important game for the rest of our season. So let's not do anything foolish out there. All right, Marty, the idea that the Lions here could be a 14 win team and be a five seed. That is inconceivable. It never happened in national football league history, but it's either going to be Detroit or Minnesota in that situation, right? Yeah, unless the Lions don't win tonight and don't win the next week. Yeah. Yeah. So when you think about the importance of getting that top seed and home field advantage, how much of the significance is having another week to rest with all these players and all trying to come back and how much of it is playing at home when you consider that this team has lost both of its games at Fordfield and they're perfect on the road, Larry. Look, in terms of getting people back and having an extra week to not only for the people who are out, but for even with the people who have been playing every week, I think that that extra week is really, really important. But on the other hand, I don't know the statistics you might have in that hand, but my guess is that no more than half of the teams of Lions have gone on to win the Super Bowl, so it's not like it's an absolute requirement. Right. So, you know, it would be really good to see them win next week. They're going to be playing a really tough Minnesota team. I was really impressed in Minnesota through most of that game, the majority of that game. But I do think that the Lions have the, have what it will take to beat Minnesota. They've already done it. And I'm just hoping that they can find that Aaron Glenn can find the right formula to get some pressure on Sam Darnell because that was the key to yesterday's game. The fact that practice put no pressure on whatsoever. Marty, when you think about the Minnesota game and where the Vikings have kind of come out of nowhere, I don't think most people thought they would finish first or second in the NFC North. And here they are, maybe along with the Washington commanders of being the best story in the year, how has Kevin O'Connell done this with the quarterback off the scrap heap? When JJ McCarthy went down and we saw what rookie quarterbacks have done some other places, I said, well, that's it for the Vikings. I'm going to make Darnell the quarterback. And Darnell just played well enough now that he's going to get a big contract somewhere. Yeah, he sure well, and he has played extremely well, and he looks like where he was originally drafted. So he's sort of another Jared Goss story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there are a lot of those. Larry, we think about the quarterback who beat the Lions in Ford Field and a guy they may have to face again down in Tampa. You see sometimes a quarterback, it takes a little bit longer and maybe you can throw a Baker Mayfield in that conversation. Or Geno Smith, even though we beat him this year, we didn't beat him last year. You know, there are a lot of, we sometimes don't give enough credit to these quarterbacks who have experienced and just haven't had success for a variety of reasons. But if it's not the arm and it's not the physical skills, and it's got the intelligence because the quarterback position today is not the quarterback position of Terry Bradshaw's day. You've got to be a nuclear physicist type of guy in order to run that offense unless your physical skills are so exceptional. And these guys, once are successful, they get study and study and study. So when the right opportunity comes about, which is what's happened for Sam Darrill in Minnesota, they are able to find success. And that's a wonderful thing, just like we feel so good about about Jared Goss. They have a right to feel good about Sam Darrill. Alright, Marty, I wanted to play the percentage game and we do this from time to time on Beyond the BS. But let's say the Lions get past the Vikings next Sunday and they are the one seed. They have a week off regardless of who they play after that. What percent chance would you give them of winning the Super Bowl? I would give them a 40% chance of winning the Super Bowl. Alright, let's say they lose to Minnesota next week and drop their third home game of the year and have to go on the road and let's say they wind up playing the Bucks again in the first round. What percent chance would you give them then of ending this drought at 67 years? I think it drops way down to about 15%. Larry, what do you think about those numbers? It's funny because I was thinking exactly 40% just like Marty was if they have the buy. But I'm thinking that even if they don't meet Minnesota, but let's assume that they don't expose any additional weaknesses or have an additional injuries, I would say that they still have a 25% chance of winning. They have that extra week that they've got to play which is going to be really harmful but potentially harmful to them. But when they lose against Minnesota, I think they have a good chance. It's just that they have to play that extra game. So I'll go down only in 25 and not to 15 like Marty did. Larry, is there any team in the National Football League that you think would be a favorite over the Detroit Lions right now? No, I don't think so. I think that they'd be favored in any game that they're playing. Certainly, I see that they're favored now by two and a half against Minnesota. That line has gone down from the original three or three and a half, at least to the side I looked at this morning. And I'm pretty sure they would be favored over Philadelphia even if they get their quarterback back. So I don't see any team in the NFL that they would not be favored against. Marty, what about Kansas City or rematch with Buffalo or even the Ravens? If they met the Lions in the Super Bowl, do you think the Lions would be favored? I think it'll be, it'll depend on how the games have gone that get them there. If any one of those teams, I think the Lions are even with all those teams that you just mentioned and what paths they take and how they play in those games and what injuries any of the teams suffer as well. Of course, they will have all won if they meet in the Super Bowl. So it won't be a difference in winning or losing, but how they've won. If Kansas City continues to play with this, you know, sort of lucky and winning by a few points all the way to the Super Bowl and the Lions were trampling all over their opponents, including the Eagles on the way there, then I think the Lions would certainly be favored over Kansas City. All right, gentlemen, switching sports for a minute. People have been waiting to see who the Tigers will acquire, who they will add to the mix and now with the signing of Torres from the Yankees. Larry Southeastern Michigan has always been a union area. Do you think they're going to have a big crusade with organized labor? I think that he's going to be a fan favorite whether we're talking about unionized workers and non-unionized workers in Detroit. And I think the Tigers have picked up a terrific acquisition because here you've got a guy who's betting on himself. He really wants to have a good year and I know every player wants to have a good year, but here's a guy who's turned down wheelbarrows full of money in order to have one good season as a one-year free agent. I can't imagine picking up a better acquisition than that for a team like the Tigers, who after that one year, if he leaves us and if other players develop, we've got a sense of potential talent on the infield. So we'll be in good shape. Marty, you've seen Torres play when he's come into a DC area and you watch the Yankees enough. Do you think he is enough for the Tigers or are they going to get somebody else? I think they're going to try to get somebody else. I think they're still trying to line up that future Hall of Famer from Houston. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And we'll see where that goes and then they're still some bats out there that they could go for as well. So I think they're going to make another move. Larry, do you want another bat? Or do you want a number two starter? Could always use another starter, but I think that their priority right now is to get another right handed bat in there. So I'll tell you what, unlike Marty, I'd be very happy if they could give Alex Bergman for a reasonable price, but I wouldn't be desperate to get him right now. I think the Tigers are even right now given the recovery from injuries that they have for the pitching staff and the talents that they have right now. Unless we have another terrible start like last year, which I don't foresee, I think we're going to be very competitive and maybe even leading the division for much of the year. So I'd be happy with what we have right now. All right, we're talking with Marty McEnan and Larry Herman Distinguished International Economists and die-hard Detroit fans. Also, big-time college fans, both with U of M Allegiance and Larry, one of those weird guys who is Michigan State and Michigan backgrounds and degrees. A lot of good basketball. I think Michigan is much improved. Marty, how could they not be after last year? But I think they're going to be relevant and entertaining and fun to watch all year. Michigan State and Michigan and UCLA, the only teams in the big 10 that are still undefeated in league play. But I want to talk college football for a minute. Marty Michigan going up against Alabama tomorrow in the Relia Quest Bowl. I'm betting if you had told the players from either one of those teams before the season started that, hey, you're going to face Michigan or you're going to face Bama in Florida, they would have thought it would be in the Orange Bowl. No kidding. This is one of the most irrelevant of the Michigan Alabama match-ups of all time. Yeah, yeah. What do you think, Larry? How interested are you in this game and what do you think we're going to see? Jalen Milro's still going to play for Alabama. Yeah, I'm sorry to say my interest is more than Wayne. I haven't watched a college ball game. I'm not talking about the first one of the playoff games all year and my sister-in-law sent me a picture from the Holiday Bowl where her high school, her husband's high school marching band was featured and all I could see were empty seats. Nobody's sitting there. So I'm even wondering how many seats are going to be sold at the Orange Bowl for the uh, for the Michigan, isn't it not the Orange Bowl? Where are they playing? Yeah, I don't know where they're playing. Play in Tampa for the Reliac West Bowl. Right, by a row of stadiums calls. Sorry. In any case, I'm wondering if they're going to sell out or whether that stadium's also going to be half empty. Yeah, Edward James Stadium there. It's a pretty interesting stadium actually, home of the pucks. Marty, what do you see as the first upset we're going to see in a college football playoff? Chalk held last week. The five through eights at home beat the nine through twelves. They don't have home field advantage this week. Are we going to see an upset? And what are you looking at as a national championship game? I would really like to see Boise State win so that we can see Gente a couple of times. Yeah, yeah. I want to see Boise State and Arizona State be for the championship and see Gente and Scatapoo go at it. I think that would be a throwback and big fun for people who don't care about seeing 500 passing yards. Larry, what do you think? What are we going to see in the second round? Look, I think that the game that everybody wants to see at least that I want to see is the Ohio State and Oregon, especially with Ohio State apparently being favored in that game. And my guess is that you'll hear a lot of talk that this is going to be the true national championship game. I don't know whether it will be or not, but the win of that game almost certainly will be favored, maybe even slightly, but will be favored to make it. Also, although I'm not rooting for them, Georgia, who almost missed, was going to miss the playoffs, you know, against Notre Dame, I fully expect Georgia to win that game. And it would be quite a story if they go ahead and they end up winning the national championship after having, you know, with the pass that they've taken. But I'm still going to say that I think Texas has a great chance. So I guess I'll go with, I'll go with chalk in the quarterfinals and by chalk, I'm going to go with Oregon over Ohio State, even though Ohio State is favored, and then the others Texas over Arizona State, even though Arizona State is a higher seed, and Penn State, I think, is going to handle Boise State. Okay, Marty, you know a little bit about Nike. You have a running background extensive. Do you know how many different uniform combinations the Oregon Ducks have? I do not know that that fit your put it, but it's high. It's a it's a big number. Do you know they have added a new one this week? I did not know that. What are we going to see? You're going to see a wing helmet. Oh, well, that's nice. That would distract the Buckeyes and make them have catatonic seizures there. They would look out and see those out there. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, I can feel the collars getting a little tighter on those garlic gray outfits. All right, gentlemen, great to talk with you both. Look forward to a big week of sports here, and we'll talk to you early in 2025. Happy New Year, Jack. Happy New Year. Marty McInan and Larry Herman are economists on both coasts. Rob, but you got big plans for New Year's Eve yet to be determined. I'm always the last one to know in the Bennett household, but I know we got some things possibly in the works, but I know one thing we'll be here talking sports on New Year's Eve Day. That's right. We will be back to work. I know we are going to do, and I'm looking forward to it. We'll break down the Michigan Alabama game. We will preview the Fiesta Bowl. We'll look at the other three quarter final matchups. We'll talk about the Lions Niners, hopefully an injury free game. We'll talk more about Michigan State basketball as the Spartans get ready for that Friday night date. It's going to be a Fox prime time game against the Buckeyes in value city arena. So all that and more coming up tomorrow, I want to thank all of our guests today, starting with Colton Pouncy from the Athletic. That's a great job covering the Lions, and he is in Santa Clara as we speak. Gregory Eaton, he has been to every Super Bowl. Only three of them left. Three guys who have done that, and he is down in West Palm right now, but he's a great representative of Mid-Michigan. Let me tell you. Also Ricardo Cooney and Neil Kepke are hockey panel, talking some MSU women's hoops. After that, great comeback and loss to Maryland, and Neil talking about Michigan State, going at it tonight against Western Michigan, uh, Marquis Gay for the Great Lakes Invitational Championship. Jim Stark at Michigan Sports Legacy Conservancy. How about Michigan State basketball and the Tigers, and Marty and Larry talking about the Detroit Lions and much, much more. We'll be back with you tomorrow, everyone. Enjoy the Lions and the Niners. Breaking news coming in from Bet365, where every nail biting over time win, breakaway, pick six, three-point shot, underdog win, buzzer beater, shoot out, walk off, and absolutely every play in between is amazing. 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