True Crime Podcast 2025 - Police Interrogations, 911 Calls and True Police Stories Podcast

20 Serial Killers - Last Words and Interviews

20 Serial Killers - Last Words and Interviews

20 Killers. 16 Executed, 3 Given Life Sentence, And One Ed Kemper.

This is a compilation of convicted serial killers last words or interviews before execution or death.
This video is meant for educational purposes only. Thank you for watching! Viewer discretion for distressing content.

True Crime Podcast 2025 REAL Police Interrogations Serial Killer Documentaries 911 Calls Investigation

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-podcast-2025-police-interrogations-911-calls-and-true-police-stories-podcast--5693470/support.

Duration:: 1h 24m
Broadcast on:: 01 Jan 2025
Audio Format:: other

At an enterprise level, nothing is more important than communication. Grammarly for enterprise enables your company to work smarter and faster. Other AI tools can't quantify business impact, but Grammarly gives you actionable insights and measurable results with features like their effective communication score, which tracks key metrics so you can make data-driven decisions to improve outcomes. Visit grammarly.com/enterprise. That's grammarly.com/enterprise. Welcome to where the five to nine more than makes up for the nine to five, where you check your worries the moment you walk in, where every day feels lucky. Even at night, welcome to the chance to savor every moment, every time you're here. For 50 years in counting, we've delivered legendary void hospitality, so join us for our 50th anniversary with special celebrations all year long. Welcome to Void Casino. Welcome to where you want to be. Well, I'm a serial killer. I've killed eight women, six in this state, and two in New York. I'm not a big serial killer, by the way, eight people, that's nothing for me. There's a lot of other guys you can go see. I saw this woman walking along the road with a stroller. I pulled off the side of the road. She came into the driveway, walked up the driveway, I was behind the house. She saw me and I grabbed her. I told her that if she didn't do what I wanted, that I would smash the babysat against the wall of the house. Where I think that's important, I've always said that I never understood why the women never really resisted me. I'm not a big, strong guy, nobody ever seen the fight. And I've always attributed to it, that I must say something like that similar to the other victims. I raped her, strangled her, I left her for dead. The only reason she's not dead is because nothing to do with me. When I attacked her, I don't believe I was in control. I don't think I could have stopped. The reason I say that is because there's a very clear point to me after she was dead, when I was feeling, I didn't really feel anything. I knew what was going on. I saw what was going on, but it was more like watching an old film that we used to see as kids in the high school. I mean in elementary school, they've been played so many times, they're all spliced. And to be going along and jump, you would think that if you killed somebody, that you would have that face imprinted in your mind, and that you wouldn't be able to get it out of your mind. I don't have that. I never had that. The only face that I can see is what was in the newspapers a few days later when they were missing, like the high school pictures. Taxes was waiting around for your taxes to be done, which led to worrying about not getting any money back. Now taxes is matching with a TurboTax expert who can do your taxes in a day to get you up to $4,000 fast with a refund advance loan. Now this is taxes. Intuit TurboTax. Get an expert now on TurboTax.com. Expert filing only available with TurboTax Lifeful Service Refund Advance has $0.00 loan fees and 0% APR refund advance loans may be issued by 1st Century Bank, NA, or Web Bank, in terms of applies subject to approval. Every idea starts with a problem. Warby Parker's was simple. Glasses are too expensive. So they set out to change that. By designing glasses in-house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate, and they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids spending with real-time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely, and parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk-Free Today at greenlight.com/audio. Anybody know where this girl is type of thing? That's when I think of them, that's the picture I see. I don't see them as they were when I killed them. I can't see them as I was killing them. When I say I don't have any remorse, that doesn't mean that I don't have any regrets and I don't wish that didn't happen. There was something I could do to bring them back or anything. I don't have any feelings towards them. I feel like I should be tormented by what they looked like when I was killing them, or by tormented by what was happening immediately before I killed them and stuff. And none of that's there. None of that's there at all. If I had to choose between whether I'm going to be executed on Thursday or know that I'm going to spend the rest of my days in prison and die an old man old and broken, I would rather die in prison. I just swung at him with the tire iron and kept swinging until he was down. It's like banging your head on a brick wall. It really is. The thing is, nobody wants to listen. I never talked to the police. I never gave a statement. I regret that now. I wish I would have been more like so many of these guys who do get arrested and they just don't shut up. You know, I wish I had told them everything up front. Maybe one of the benefits of me talking to you today is that you'll see that maybe not everything is true that you've heard about me. Would hell am I in my pure evil? Am I the face of terror sitting here in front of you? Or am I able to talk to you man to man? But sitting down here now, and let me make clear, I'm not sitting here trying to influence you. And I'm not putting on a game face. I'm not counting anybody. I'm just being me. So, I've got to ask you, how are you feeling this morning? Mm-hmm. A little numb. I mean, I don't know how you would expect someone to feel. I mean, they told you tomorrow you're dying. How would you feel? It's not something. We all die of it. It's knowing your exact date and time. That's hard to deal with. Mm-hmm. But I'm at peace with myself. I mean, as far as it's my release, my punishment's over. I've been here 28 years now. I'm tired. So? You've been here 28 years. I've been locked up 28 years since December of 1987. So, I'm a little tired. And in confinement. And explain what that's like. Imagine spending 28 years in this room. And there's no way to describe it. It's exceptionally difficult. I have a lot of support. A lot of people love me and care about me. A lot of it. What makes a great pair of glasses? At Warby Parker. It's all the invisible extras without the extra cost. Their designer quality frames start at $95, including prescription lenses, plus scratch resistant, sponge resistant, and anti-reflective coatings, and UV protection, and free adjustments for life. To find your next pair of glasses, sunglasses, or contact lenses, or to find the Warby Parker store nearest you, head over to warbyparker.com. That's warbyparker.com. Hair thinning can happen for so many reasons. Whether it's Strenus, or Hormones, or anything, at Newterfall, we've learned that real change starts below the surface. Our hair growth supplements take a whole body approach and target the key root causes of hair thinning. So you can see visibly thicker, stronger hair in three to six months. Hair growth starts from the inside at Newterfall.com. That's N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com. Business taxes were stressing about all the time and all the money you spent on your taxes. This is my bill. Now Business taxes is a TurboTax small business expert who does your taxes for you and offers you around advice at no additional cost. So you can keep more money and your business. Now this is taxes. Intuit TurboTax. Get an expert now on TurboTax.com/business, only available with TurboTax Life Full Service. Pour it outside. That's maybe a little easier, but still that's very difficult to spend 28 years in a room like this. A lot of thinking. You have to be able to look at a mirror and like yourself. Do you like yourself? Yeah. I'm comfortable with myself. There's a lot of things in my younger, in my past. You know, I wish I could change, but I'm in peace with myself. The state's about to kill me and they think they're getting justice and I'm like, well, they're not getting justice. They're just going to kill somebody else. That's like, and I've like, they killed me 28 years ago when they locked me up. Now they're just releasing me. So you're saying you didn't murder these women? No. You didn't murder Natalie Holly. Oh. Stephanie Collins. Oh. Terri Lynn Matthews. No. I didn't know. I've never seen them. Never met them. Never met them. I met them through photographs, through crime scene photos, through newspaper articles. I've gotten to know them fairly well through newspaper articles and crime scene photos, police reports. So 10 juries convicted you though? Yes. 10 juries heard the same evidence repeatedly over and over and over. Nothing changed. Evidence linking you to the murders. Yes. People's testimony in the physical evidence. What physical evidence actually linked me? There's air and fibers, right? Hair and fibers that might belong prepared. Not for me. So I've been hearing you talk for the last 20 minutes and you're going over the case. You're going over the evidence and talking about it being flawed and tainted and planted. So is Florida basically killing an innocent man? Yes. For the murder of Stephanie Collins, Natalie Holly, and Terri Lynn Matthews. They're about to execute me for Terri Lynn Matthews murder. They execute someone who absolutely did not commit that murder. So you're innocent? There was another man confessed to it. So you're innocent? Absolutely innocent of the murder. I had nothing to do with it. Are you going to have anything final to say right before the injection? No, that's my release. They're not going to get no justice out of that. If anything, they'll leave angry. They'll say, well that was too easy. There was nothing there. Is it going to change anything for them? When they wake up the day after, is anything going to be different? Now, I'm not going to be there. Where's their focus of their anger now? They're still going to be without their child. They're still going to be numb. You know, maybe it won't happen today. Maybe it'll happen a week or six weeks or maybe something will happen a year down the road or whatever, then they'll say, wow, maybe something will change. They'll say, well, maybe I want to look at the evidence. It might be too late for me. They owe it to their child. I would if it was my child. They owe their child that much. Are you going to be looking at them right before you're executed? Well, if they're in the window, I probably will. Eye to eye? You're going to look at all of them? Well, I don't know. Depends if I can see them or not. But you plan to? Oh, if I can see them, yes. And would you say anything? I don't know if I'll say anything because I don't know if it would do any good. You know? What would you say to them? I encourage you to examine the evidence. Hire and independent. Someone that you trust, someone you feel comfortable with and go through it. Is that what you're going to say? That's what I would say. That's all I can say. I didn't do it. You're not going to believe me. Fine. There's no point in saying that. Don't take my word for it. Don't take the police. Do it in the analysis. Let them do it. If you're a maintenance supervisor for a commercial property, you've had to deal with everything from leaky faucets to flickering light bulbs. But nothing's worse than that ancient boiler that's lived in the building since the day it was built. Fifty years ago, it's enough to make anyone lose their cool. That's where Granger comes in. With industrial-grade products and dependable fast delivery, Granger can help with any challenge. From worn-out components to everyday necessities, call clickgranger.com or just stop by. Ranger for the ones who get it done. Business taxes were stressing about all the time and all the money you spent on your taxes. This is my bill. Now Business taxes is a TurboTax small business expert who does your taxes for you and offers you around advice at no additional cost. So you can keep more money in your business. Now this is taxes. Intuit TurboTax. Get an expert now on TurboTax.com/business, only available with TurboTax Life Full Service. Did they tell you what time the execution takes place? Well, I think it's scheduled for six feet now. [ Silence ] After 20 years of this, being in this box for 20, it's a release. My punishment's over. They can't hurt me no more. So what are you doing yourself, all those years, sitting in there? Read. Read what? Books. I read everything. I read all of them. You know, the works of our philosophers, Nietzsche. I read them all. History. I mean, you're limited to what you can do. Reading's pretty much the only thing, writing, reading, writing. I had TV. I watched TV. Stated by the world events and politics and stuff. What do you watch? Anything in politics that's interesting to you? Mostly it was. The PBS shows. The Offbeat News programs, because they're more in debt, more coverage. A lot of the master piece mysteries and stuff like that. I didn't watch a lot of mainstream TV. Do art or draw? What do you draw? I did different types of drawings for Rosalie, for the kids. I didn't draw for nobody else than for her. Hopefully someday the truth will come out of us. I mean, it might be too late for me. It was too late for me 28 years ago. I came to prison 28 years ago. Had I not been in prison for the Ohio case, maybe not just for the happen. Maybe my credibility would have been different. I don't know. In hindsight, you can sit back and say, "Well, there's a lot of what is or I should have." But you can't change that. We get one go around. And I have to accept the hand that was dealt with me. Some of us don't get the opportunity. Dying down there is not as bad as dying a car wreck or upside down a ditch or a house fire or more like the victims died. I mean, there are many worse ways to go. At least I had the opportunity to say goodbye to my people. I had a chance to prepare myself. Do you know how many people you murdered? Yeah, but I'm rather not mentioning it. By my count, it's 22 people. Is that the same number that you have? That's approximately it. I wish I could go back and change things, but there's no way I can do it. So I'll try to make the best of it. If I had some way to make amends to them, I would try to do that. Being locked up in here on death row with an execution date a week away, I can't really do a whole lot for them. Do you think about those two boys and Cincinnati? No, I don't really think about them. I mean, I can't go back and think about the cases individually. I have too much other problems, too much other things. I have to focus on and worry about. Those are two young boys, just 13 or 14 years old. I regret the fact that I shot them now. Why did you shoot them? Well, I was just sitting on that railroad track, waiting for the first, either interracial couple or black to walk by. And what was your mission? Well, to try to get a race war started, mixed race couples and blacks, I figured if once I started doing it and showed them how other white supremacists would do the same thing, follow suit. So you hope people would copy? I would hope that other white nationalists would do the same thing. Do you think you're a hero to those hate groups? Well, that's what they tell me. I just felt like I was at war, you know, and with the survival of the white race, was it state, stuff like that, you know? Do you feel that way now? No, not at all. No, I can see now I was wrong. It's wrong. Violence is wrong at any time, you know? Do you feel that way because you got caught? No, not at all. No, as a matter of fact, it took me many, many years to change. I actually thought as misguided as I was, I was doing the will of God, you know? I thought I was actually doing right. This is what God wanted me to do. But the police were pursuing it. The first time I killed somebody, it was such a rush. How many people have you killed? Lord, I don't know. I don't know. 10? Yeah. 20? Probably. 30? It's up there. 50. Let's see. I'm not building the kid and making notches on my poster. So, I know it's been a lot. I am hatred. When you look at me, you look at hate. When I look at you, I look at hate. When you look at me, you know what hate is. I don't know what love is. Two words I don't like to use is love and sorry. Because I'm about hate. I don't have no feelings. No more. No emotion. No. And I like to watch the eyes fade. The pupil fade. What do you like about that? It's just like sitting there so free. You also killed children. I some get killed, yes. Now, why would that happen? I didn't want him to live through the pain I lived through. What did you do to her, sir? Her neck was cut. How did you do that? With a knife. So, what if I called you something that you didn't like? And you think about killing me? Well, if was in a fight and... You know, get your head down in the concrete, then, you know, so be it, but... What happens when my head goes down to the concrete? Well, what do you think happened? It cracked like a coconut. Why do you want to be executed? Uh, I have to be. Uh, is that a world kill again? No, I would do it again. I've been molesting kids nonstop since I was 13 years old over half my life. Uh, anything happened? I can guarantee I'd do it again, and sooner or later I would kill another child. I've done it before, and at the time I liked it. Would your execution do any good? I think it would. I think... A few child molesters anyway are going to think twice before they do anything again. How do you live with yourself daily? At times it's not easy. You said there's times I think about what I've done. I think about some of the things the boys said before they died, and that's real hard to think about. At other times I just try to put everything out of my mind. Do you look forward to dying? In a way, yeah, I think it'd be a relief. I don't have to think about all these things anymore. Uh, I don't know, that's the only way I can guarantee I'm not going to hurt anybody else. So, you know, isolation from everybody that I had been with for almost six years. The first week I was here was the worst week. The last ten years was just like that. Years of a drug nightmare. Days of not knowing where you are or what you've done. Living in prison every day is a struggle, even at its best. And I know that without him and his strength that has sustained me, I couldn't have made it even thus far. I'm sorry for the hurt that I've caused so many people. Um, today if it were possible, I wish that I could take every bit of hurt on myself. You want to control your destiny? That's right, that's right. That's a good way this... I mean, that's what this is all about. That's a good way to say it. You've got two types of people, you've got people that lead and people that follow. And I just decided I wasn't going to be a follower. How many people have you killed? I mean, what is it that you want to come clean about? Um, I have several homicides that I personally have dealings with and there's been other people that was involved, but I'll never reveal their names ever because it has nothing to do. This is me, this is my end, my life. I'm writing this story. This all first started, I was in the Ohio penitentiary. I'd come to a decision in the Ohio prison that I was serving 26 to life there and I just... I can't conceive that amount of time. The information that I have and the things that I know and the things that I've been a part of could get me to where I wanted to be, probably a lot quicker because I'd rather be, to be honest with you, I'd rather be deceased, dead, than to be, spend my life in prison and watch my family drop off one by one. And when I die in the end of an old man from being in prison, no one left to mourn me when I'm dead. Let me ask you, John. How does it make it easier to kill someone because you vision everything, you look at everything other than your family as just one and the same? That's right. Basically an object. Right. Does that make it easier? I would have to say it would. I can't conceive or understand why people, families, they seek for closure after things like this. I don't understand that. I don't understand how you got people that, like in militaries, that kill people, soldiers, and then they have to go through therapy. Because I mean, I can't understand what it is that people, I can't figure it out. Why? Why they feel bad. Why they feel that way. So what is it that you want to happen next? I know that you basically want to control your destiny and you want people to listen. And where do you go next? What happens? But I still see the end for me, it will be soon, it will be within, it will be within my family's lifetime and which is okay with me. Because what you want is to die. That's correct. That's the only thing worthy of a warrior, I guess you could say. Tell me in a sentence who you are. Nobody. I'm nobody. Death. It happens to everybody. I'm not, I don't fear being dying. The only thing that I even worry about is the emotions that my family might feel. When you die, where do you think you'll go? Do you think death will be better? I personally feel that, personally, that if there is a God, if there is a devil. But you're not much in answering my direct questions. A lot was made that you're a devil worshipper. You worship the devil? Have you ever studied Satanism? I personally don't carry either way because I refuse to worship anything that I can't. It's not tangible or made to yourself known to me or I feel like it's a conspiracy. You know what I'm saying? I'm never bowed down to anything or anybody. It's not in my blood. If there is a God or a devil, if I get sent to hell, if I get sent there, I'll spend my whole life trying to eternity, trying to take over hell because I'll bow down to no person, no entity, no being, no God of this world, no God of any other world or any other universe. It would be improper for me to comment on my early convictions and on my pending case here in San Francisco. Why? Because of my appeals. Are you appealing these because you say you're innocent? You didn't kill 13 people? That is correct. You didn't kill 13 people? Again, it would be improper for me to comment in any regard to that question. You have now entered a very rare group of people in this country. You're in the ranks of Charlie Manson, Ted Bundy. You claim you didn't commit these murders, but you're right in there now as far as everybody else is. Just serial killers do on a small scale what governments do on a large one. They are a product of the times and these are bloodthirsty times. Even psychopaths have emotions if you dig deep enough, but then again maybe they don't. Do you have emotions, Richard? No comments. Tell me what kind of emotions you're not going through right now. I'll tell you what, I gave up on love and happiness a long time ago. Why? I don't care to explain that. Let the quote stand for itself. People in this day and age are brainwashed and programmed like a computer. I'd be nothing more than puppet. This nation, this country is founded in violence. Violence delights tend to have violent ends. Madness is something rare in individuals, but in groups, people in ages, it is a rule. Killing is killing whether done for duty, profit, or fun. Men murdered themselves into this democracy. You got it right in your script, Richard, but you're not much in answering my direct questions. A lot was made, you're a devil worshipper. You worshiped the devil, have you ever studied Satanism? There are different sects of Satanism. Have you studied, just yes or no, have you studied Satanism? Yes, yes I have. Are you a worshipper of the devil? No comments. Come on, Richard. I can tell you a little bit about Satanism. Well, I'm interested in hearing what you got to say. It is undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit. It is power without charity. Satanism admits to being evil. You admit to being evil, Richard? We are all evil in some form or another. Are we not? I'm asking you the question to my friends. Yes, I am evil. Not 100%, but I am evil. Evil has always existed. The perfect world most people seek, she'll never come to pass. And it's going to get worse. Your father passed away. On the 10th. My dad died 13 days ago. 13 days ago? Yeah, on June 10th. But you will die or you are scheduled for execution for only 8 days. Yes, sir. How are you doing? You know, I'm a Christian, so I believe that paradise awaits one way or the other. So I tell people all the time, I'm either going home or home. So I'm either going home to the world or home to God. So as the days get closer, I can feel the pressure on my shoulders. They call it clinical depression, where I just start having less motivation to do things, less energy. You get frustrated at the system, how can they not see, you know, my situation is wrong. You know, I used to write all the time and have a lot of energy and I just don't have it anymore. I just feel like I've been beaten down. And you were sent on an outward bound trip into smart. Yeah, that wasn't fair. Well, you know, I'm a city boy at heart, you know what I'm saying. I'm really not into the nature and bugs and the weather. So, you know, they sent me on a two-week canoe trip. Which sounds wonderful for me, but... Yeah, you know, I liked the canoe, but what was, it wasn't the canoeing that was bad. It was in the Everglades. I mean, we're seeing alligators everywhere. Now, my question is, and I didn't even realize that until I got here, what happened if I would have fell out and got to eat my alligator? Who would have been responsible? You know, did my parents sign some type of waiver because they were alligators everywhere? Well, a young man of 13, you'd better watch out and handle the alligators. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what happened then, you didn't... Well, I think it was on the third or fourth day. We would canoe until, like, night time and pull in. I guess they had certain designations marked. And sometimes we'd pull in, like, at midnight, there's bugs. You could reach out and grab a handful of bugs, and then they'd want us to cook dinner. And, you know, I'm like, man, I can't. And one of the things of the program was to teach you immediate, you know, every action, there's a reaction. So, immediate consequences to your decision. And one of the things I learned is that if I don't pay attention to the lessons, we had these bags for our property. And you had to seal them right, or there wouldn't be waterproof. Well, I didn't listen, and it fell in the water and all my stuff got wet. So, I didn't have my own tent, I didn't have no toilet paper anymore, and I didn't like that. So, basically, I was my typical stubborn self, and I told me, you know what, I ain't doing this no more. Take me home. But you were not attacked by elegance? No, we were attacked by monkeys, though. But monkeys were jumping from one side to the trees on the other side we were at, and trying to come over there. And they couldn't figure out where the monkeys came from, but there was a whole bunch of them. A whole bunch. I wanted to get out and get one, but they said they had diseases, right? And the details of what happened, but in fact, three people were killed. Mm-hmm. And you denied that you were even close to the scene, or how do you...? Well, there's no longer a question. There's no longer a question of my innocence. That question is out the door. The question is, what is anyone going to do about it now? I mean, a perfect example is, you're here with these guys. They show up at your hotel room in a car. You're going to assume that that car is, you know, these are your friends. So, when Jason shows up to pick me up in a car, I'm going to assume it's okay. You get arrested and you come to find out he just murdered someone from that car. You're going to end up on Texas' death row. You're going to end up right here, because you trusted one of these guys to show up and pick you up in a real car that wasn't just stolen. But trusting in Jason was a bad choice anyway. Absolutely. Let's face it. He was... Well, you know, some sort of a bad apple, and so were you. I was homeless and starving, so where could I get my food? I was using drugs and stealing them. He offered me drugs. He offered me a place to stay. He offered me food, so I chose that, which I shouldn't have. I regret it every minute now. Share, share every minute. Share, share every minute. Make the most of it, because, you know, they can do you like me. Be in the wrong situation at the wrong time, and there's no telling what you end up. You might want to get out of Texas as soon as possible. You've got me annoyed with you now. Yeah. That's the truth. How mad are you? How bad. Pretty. I feel a little flushed. So that means that I've reached the point in my life that I'm a little annoyed. What would you like to do? It doesn't matter. I don't think it's gone to the point that I'm actually going to do anything stupid. Just curious to myself why it happened. I don't know why it happened. I'm actually almost glad it did happen, because you had a chance to see something. But I don't know why it happened. Did you feel I was criticizing you? Yes. All I'm asking you to do, if you find me your heart, is to give me a second chance of life. How is the person you are now different from the person you were when you got on death row 21 years ago? More doubtful. You love myself more? I've had the privilege of witnessing his compassion, his thoughtfulness, and I'm not the only one. He's had many other pen pals around the world, and has had a huge impact on their lives as well. I understand, too, that if I do get clumsy, I know that instead of dying on the 19th, I may die years later. But it won't be in the free run, it'll be in prison. And I can accept that, because there's other avenues in prison that I can take to better myself and to better others along the way. And? Yeah. Someone tells you something. There's a bush here. Right. They're telling you something so they can set you up for something they want you to do, but then, so they can move the situation around to what's going to help them. I guess people do that. I don't know. Yeah. It's over some bullshit. It's a long time. Why is that? Because I had no help. Yeah. I think you're 100% right. My mother went to prison. Right. That ain't nobody to back me up. It's a long, hard road. That's the sense they want to back me up. They tell me I love you, Charlie. Right. They're all in some kind of game they want me to run and tell you something so they can set you up for something. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And those guys that you're talking to? Okay. And those guys that you're talking, let's call Angela a telephone number of the monotone and record it. Did you ever even have any gears they cut off? Who's that? I got a picture of you. I know I sent you quite a few. Yeah. I want to get one phone call and I got three people I got a call. All righty? I'm just telling you, man. I want to trust my happy. Okay. That's you. That's such good advice. Don't kill anyone. Anything. They can enter and make it something else. That's good advice. You see, I see it. Show me in the car. They'll write to you, then I have no car. Right. Yeah. I got a roll, so I'll call you one again. All right, my brother. Thank you for calling, man. You take care of yourself. The clowning was relaxation for me. I enjoyed entertaining kids. Like some people are, you know, they unwind in different ways. Either we're going out drinking or that. I could put on clown makeup and I was relaxed. And I enjoyed doing it. I was twice. It was only twice a month that I did. Yeah. This was not used in for allure to draw kids to you. No, we would visit different hospitals. And entertain the children there. And we didn't entertain them with handcuffs or anything like that. All we used was balloon animals and small toys and stuff like that. But we also did parades. And in the summertime, like I'm 4th of July, I used to be in four parades in one day. I've always told people, when I got into clown makeup, I regressed in the childhood. It was fun being a clown because you could be yourself or just let yourself go and act a fool. You could be slapstick and funny and have a good time. That's why I always enjoyed clowning. Clowning has taken a bad name because of what they've used in my career. I'm a patient person. I've got a good listing here and try to help people. You're a patient with a good ear and you try to help people. Yes. When you're not trying to murder them. Yes. When Kellinger's reign of Tara ended, three were dead, including his 14-year-old son. You murdered your own son? Yes, I did. Why did you do that? He was a sacrifice. I was to murder three million people on the planet Earth. And he was a sacrifice to see if I could murder one of my own. At the end of murdering all the people on Earth, I was going to murder my own family and then take my own life and become God. What do you think of the death penalty? I'm opposed to it. The state has no right to take your life, but you can murder other people? I don't think anyone has the right to take your life. Except you? When I'm under hallucination, I do. These voices from God, these hallucinations, do you still experience them? Yes, I do. Often? Often. Do you ever feel violent? Yes, I do. What do you feel like doing? Killing people. Do you still feel like killing people? Yes. Describe the feeling that you get when you feel like killing people. Well, last March 11th, I was hallucinating and I took a razor blade and I cut a man's throat. Here in the hospital? Here in the hospital. Do you think it murdered me, Joe? Yes. That's gruesome, Joe. That's horrible. Yes, it is. And you don't blame me if I say I hope you never get out of this place. I hope I never do either. Well, they weren't really spontaneous. I altered how I approached these young ladies from the point of capture, from the first time. What I had wanted to do was to secure them and to suffocate them with plastic bags over their heads. I had some completely unrealistic perspective that that was quick, that they would lose consciousness rapidly. But the first young lady that was in the backseat, that was Mary Ann Pech, I finally secured her. She argued a lot. She was dialoguing, trying to change up control of the situation. She had already decided I was in control. I was trying to gain control. I was convinced she was in control of it. So for about 20 minutes we were arguing back and forth over what was going to happen. And I was trying to keep it away from what was intended, which was murdered. And I decided at that time I wasn't going to tell anyone I was going to rape them. I didn't say that at the time, but I left that wide openness, the avenue that I was going to be a sexual release. And that got them very distressed. And it was obvious to me that if I was going to pursue what I was doing, that distress had to stop. So I went into a, unfortunately, more effective behavior of letting them help me. I let more of my personality come out. And I was suicidal, very disturbed, grasping out at someone. I had abducted them and I wasn't going to let them out of the car because I was tired of people walking away from me. So some of that was very true. But I manipulated that to allow them to help me to the point of resolving their behavior until we got to a place where they could be killed. And that has the biggest problem with that on a guilt basis because obviously that entailed unusual trust between the captor, the perpetrator and the victim of the crime. At one point, in fact, on the fourth victim of the crime, Ms. Shaw, she actually got back into the trunk under her own power. I had a cast on my left arm that was broken and I walked her back to the trunk of the car where I told her I was going to keep her under cover so that I could give her to my home where we could talk. But I didn't want neighbors seeing her coming to the house or leaving the house. And I made that sound realistic to her. So she didn't want to get in the trunk but was willing to. In ninth grade, in biology class, we had the usual dissection of fetal pigs and I took the remains of that home and kept the skeleton of it. And I just started branching out dogs, cats. I suppose it could have turned into a normal hobby like taxidermy. And all I know is that I wanted to see what the insides of these animals looked like. There may have been some violence involved, some underlying subconscious feelings of violence. It was a compulsion, became a compulsion. What would you do with the dead animals, Jeff? Take them back in the woods, skin them sometimes, slit them, slit them all the way open, look at the organs, feel them. Can you describe what you were thinking? It was just mystifying to me how the insides of the animal looked. It was a sort of general excitement for me. I don't know why. It was exciting to see. And I acted on my fantasies and that's where everything went wrong. Did you ever tell yourself, "I have to stop this. I must stop doing this." Yes. When it was going on, after the second time, it seemed like the compulsion to do it was too strong. And I didn't even try to stop it after that. But before the second time, things had been building up gradually, going to bookstores, going to the bars, the gay bars, bath clubs. When that wasn't enough buying sleeping pills and using it on various guys in the bath clubs, it just escalated slowly but surely. And after the second time, which was not planned, it was out of control, felt like it was out of control. Were you relieved to be arrested? Part of me was, and part of me wasn't. Explain. Part. I don't know. It's like, I don't believe I have a split personality, but you know the feeling where you're sort of glad about something, but on the other hand you're not. That's how it was. It was a relief not to have to keep such a gigantic secret that I had kept for so many years. And once I saw that I had no choice but to face it, I decided to face it head on and make a full confession. So I am glad that the secrets are gone. I just get angry with other people who think that they have a right to somehow try to blame my parents for what happened. That's not right at all. No one has the right to do that because they're totally innocent. They had no knowledge of it. And that angers me. Ted, it is about 2.30 in the afternoon. You are scheduled to be executed tomorrow morning at 7 o'clock if you don't receive another stay. What is going through your mind? What thoughts have you had in these last few days? Well, I won't kid you to say that it's something that I feel that I am in control of or something that I've come to terms with because I haven't. It's a moment by moment thing. Sometimes I feel very tranquil and other times I don't feel tranquil at all. What's going through my mind right now is to use the minutes and hours that I have left as fruitfully as possible and see what happens. It helps to live in the moment in the essence that we use it productively. So right now I'm feeling calm and in large part because I'm here with you. For the record you are guilty of killing many women and girls. Yes, that's true. Ted, how did it happen? Take me back. What are the antecedents of the behavior that we've seen? So much grief, so much sorrow, so much pain for so many people. Where did it start? How did this moment come about? That's the question of the hour and one that not only people much more intelligent than I have been working on for years, but one that I've been working on for years and trying to understand. Is there enough time to explain at all? I don't know. I think I understand that though, understand what happened to me, to the extent that I can see how certain feelings and ideas developed in me to the point where I began to act out on a certain very violent and very destructive feeling. Let's go back then to those roots. First of all, you as I understand it were raised in what you considered to have been a healthy home. Absolutely. You were not physically abused, you were not sexually abused, you were not emotionally abused. No way. That's part of the tragedy of this whole situation is because I grew up in a wonderful home with two dedicated and loving parents, one of five brothers and sisters. A home where we as children were the focus of my parents' lives, where we regularly attended church to Christian parents who did not drink, they did not smoke, there was no gambling, there was no physical abuse or fighting in the home. I'm not saying this was leave at the beaver. No, no, I don't know that such a home exists but it was a fine, solid Christian home and nobody, I hope no one will try to take the easy way out and to try to blame or otherwise accuse my family of contributing to this because I know. And I'm trying to tell you as honestly as I know how what happened and I think this is a message I'm going to get across. But as a young boy, and I mean the boy of 12, 13 certainly that I encountered outside the home again, in the local grocery store, the local drug store, the soft core pornography, what people call soft core. But as I think I explained to you last night, Dr. Dobson in an anecdote, as young boys do, we explored the back roads and sideways and byways of our neighborhood and oftentimes people would dump the garbage and whatever they were cleaning out their house. And by the time of time we come across pornographic books of a harder nature than more of a graphic, you might say, more explicit nature than we would encounter, let's say, in your local grocery store. And this also included such things as, let's say, detective magazines and more- Those that involve violence. Yes, yes, and this is something I think I want to emphasize is the most damaging kinds of pornography. And again, I'm talking from personal experience, a hard, real personal experience, the most damaging kinds of pornography are those that involve violence and sexual violence. Because the wedding of those two forces, as I know only too well, brings about behavior that it's just too terrible to describe. Now, walk me through that. What was going on in your mind at that time? Okay, before we go any further, I think, it's important to me, and the people believe what I'm saying, to tell you that I'm not blaming pornography and not saying that it caused me to go out and do certain things. And I take full responsibility for whatever I've done and all the things that I've done. That's not the question here. The question and the issue is how this kind of literature contributed and helped mold and shape the kinds of violent behavior. It fueled your fantasies. Well, in the beginning, it fuels this kind of thought process. Then at a certain time, it's instrumental in what I would say, crystallizing and making it into something which is almost like a separate entity inside. At that point, you're at the verge, or I was at the verge of acting out on these kinds of moments. Now, I really want to understand that. You had gone about as far as you could go in your own fantasy life with printed material. And you made or printed in video or film, film, magazine, and then there was the urge to take that little step or big step over to a physical event. And it happens, it happened in stages gradually. It doesn't necessarily, not to me at least, happen overnight. My experience with, I say, pornography generally, but with pornography that deals on a violent level with the sexuality, is that once you become addicted to it, and I look at this as a kind of addiction. Like other kinds of addiction, you keep, I would keep looking for more poke, more explicit, more graphic signs of material. Like an addiction, you keep craving something which is harder, harder, something which gives you a greater sense of excitement. Until you reach the point where the pornography only goes so far, you reach that jumping off point where you begin to wonder if maybe actually doing it will give you that which is beyond just reading about it or looking at it. How long did you stay at that point before you actually assaulted someone? Well, yeah, you see, that is a very delicate point in my own development. And we're talking about something, we're talking about having reached the point or a grey area that surrounded that point over a course of years. I would say, I would say a couple years. And what was, I was dealing with there were very strong inhibitions against criminal behavior or violent behavior that had been conditioned into me, bred into me in my environment, in my neighborhood, in my church, in my school, things which said no, this is wrong. I mean, even to think of it is wrong, but certainly to do what is wrong. And you're on, I'm on that edge, and you might say the last vestiges of restraint, the barriers to actually doing something were being tested constantly and assailed through the kind of fantasy life that was fueled largely by pornography. Do you remember what pushed you over that edge? Do you remember the decision to go for it? Do you remember where you decided to throw caution to the wind? When you say pushed, I know what you're saying, I don't want to be sure again to understand that I was, that I was some helpless kind of victim, and yet we're talking about an influence which, that is the influence of violent types of media and violent pornography, which was an indispensable link in the chain of behavior, the chain of events that led to the behaviors, to the assaults, to the murders, and what have you. It's a very difficult thing to describe. The sensation of reaching that point where I knew that it was like something had, say, snapped, that I knew that I couldn't control anymore, but these barriers that I had learned as a child had been instilled in me were not enough to hold me back with respect to seeking out and harming somebody. Would you be accurate to call out a sexual frenzy? Well, yes, that's one way to describe it, a compulsion, a building up of this destructive energy. Again, another factor here, I haven't mentioned is the use of alcohol, but I think that what alcohol did in conjunction with, let's say, my exposure to pornography was alcohol reduced my inhibitions at the same time. The fantasy life that was fueled by pornography eroded them further. In the early days, you were nearly always about half drunk when you did these things, is that right? Yes. Was that always true? I would say that that was generally the case, almost what I would say. If I can understand it now, there's this battle going on within. There are the conventions that you've been taught. There's the right and wrong that you learned as a child. And then there is this unbridled passion fueled by your plunge into hardcore violent pornography, and those things are at war with each other. And then with the alcohol diminishing the inhibitions, you let go. Well, yes, and you can summarize it that way, and it's accurate, certainly. And it just occurred to me that some people would say that, well, I've seen that stuff and it doesn't do anything to me. And I can understand that virtually everyone can be exposed to so-called pornography, and while they're aroused with one degree or another, they're not going to do anything wrong. Now, addictions are like that. They affect some people more than they affect others. That there is a percentage of people affected by hardcore pornography in a very violent way, and you're obviously one of them. That was a major component, and I don't know why I was vulnerable to it. All I know is that it had an impact on me that was just so central to the development of the violent behavior that I engaged in. Ted, after you committed your first murder, what was the emotional effect on you? What happened in the days after that? Well, again, please understand that even all these years later, it was very difficult to talk about it, and reliving it through talking about it. It's difficult to say the least, but I want you to understand what happened. It was like coming out of some kind of horrible trance or dream. I can only liken it to after, you know, I don't want to overdramatize it, but to have been possessed by something so awful and so alien, and then the next morning wake up from it. Remember what happened and realize that basically, I mean, in the eyes of the law, certainly in the eyes of God, you're responsible to wake up in the morning and realize what I had done. And with a clear mind, and all my essential moral and ethical feelings intact at that moment, absolutely horrified that I was capable of doing something like that. You really hadn't known that before? There is just absolutely no way to describe first the brutal urge to do that kind of thing. And then what happens is once it has been more or less satisfied and received, you might say, or spent that sense, that kind of energy level receives, and basically I became myself again. I want people to understand this too, and I'm not saying this gratuitously because it's important people understand this. Basically, I was a normal person. I wasn't some guy hanging out, a bar or a bum, or I wasn't a pervert in the sense that people look at somebody and say, "I know there's something wrong with him and just tell." I was essentially a normal person. I had good friends. I lived a normal life, except for this one small, but very potent and very destructive segment of it that I kept very secret and very close to myself and didn't let anybody know about it. And part of the shock and horror for my dear friends and family years ago when I was first arrested was that there was no clue. They looked at me and they looked at the All-American boy, and I mean that wasn't perfect, but it was quite candid with you. I was okay. I was. The basic humanity and basic spirit that God gave me was intact, but it unfortunately became overwhelmed at times. People need to recognize that it's not some kind of those of us who have been so much influenced by violence in the media, in particular pornographic violence, are not some kinds of inherent monsters. We are your sons and we are your husbands, and we grew up in regular families, and pornography can reach out and snatch a kid out of any house today. He snatched me out of my home 20, 30 years ago, and as diligent as my parents were, and they were diligent in protecting their children. And as good a Christian home as we had, and we had a wonderful Christian home, there is no protection against the kinds of influences that are loose in the society that tolerates. You feel this really deeply, don't you? Ten outside these walls right now, there are several hundred reporters that wanted to talk to you, and you asked me to come here from California because you had something you wanted to say. This hour that we have together is not just an interview with a man who's scheduled to die tomorrow morning. I am here and you're here because of this message that you're talking about right here. You really feel that hard-corpennography and the doorway to it, soft-corpennography, is doing untold damage to other people and causing other women to be abused and killed the way you did. Listen, I'm no social scientist and I haven't done a survey. I mean, I don't pretend that I know what John Q. Citizen thinks about this, but I've lived in prison for a long time now. And I've met a lot of men who have motivated to commit violence just like me, and without exception, every one of them was deeply involved in pornography without questioning, without exception, deeply influenced and consumed by an addiction to pornography. There's no question about it. The FBI's own study on serial homicide shows that the most common interest among serial killers is pornography. That's true. And it's real. It's true. Ted, what would your life have been like without that influence? You can only speculate. Yeah. Well, I know it would have been far better, not just for me, and excuse me for being so self-centered here. It would have been a lot better for me and lots of other people. I know that lots of other innocent people, victims and families. It would have been a lot better. There's no question, but it would have been a fuller life. Certainly a life that would not have involved. I'm absolutely certain would not have involved this kind of violence that I have committed. I'm sure, Ted, if I were able to ask you the questions that are being asked out there, one of the most important as you come down to perhaps your final hours, are you thinking about all those victims out there in their families who are so wounded? Years later, their lives have not returned to normal. They will never return to normal. Absolutely. Are you carrying that load that way? Is the remorse there? Again, I know that people will accuse me of being self-serving, but we're beyond that now. I mean, I'm just telling you how I feel. But through God's help, I have been able to come to the point where I'm much too late, but better late to never feel the hurt and the pain that I am responsible for. Yes, absolutely. In the past few days, myself and a number of investigators have been talking about unsolved cases, murders that I was involved in. It's hard to talk about all these years later because it revives me all those terrible feelings and those thoughts that I have steadfastly and diligently dealt with, I think, successfully with the love of God. And yet it's reopened that and I've felt the pain and I've felt the horror again of all that. And I can only hope that those who I've harmed, those who I've caused so much grief, even if they don't believe my expression of sorrow and remorse, will believe what I'm saying now, that there is loose in their towns and their communities. People like me today whose dangerous impulses are being fueled day in and day out by violence in the media in its various forms, particularly sexualized violence. And what scares me and let's come into the present now, because what I'm talking about happened 20, 30 years ago, that is in my formative stages. And what scares and appalls me, Dr. Dobson, is when I see what's on cable TV, some of the movies, I mean some of the violence in the movies that come into homes today with stuff that they wouldn't show in an x-rated adult theaters 30 years ago. This stuff, the slasher movies that you're talking about, that stuff is, I'm telling you from personal experience, the most that is graphic violence on screen, particularly as it gets into the home to children who may be unattended or unaware that they may be a Ted Bundy who has that vulnerability to that predisposition to be influenced by that kind of behavior, by that kind of movie, that kind of violence. Their kids sitting out there, switching the TV dial around and come upon these movies late at night, or I don't know when they're on, but they're on and any kid can watch them. It's scary when I think what would have happened to me if I had seen, I'm scary enough. I mean, that I just ran into stuff outside the home, but to know that children are watching that kind of thing today, or can pick up their phone and dial away for it, or send away for it. Can you help me understand this desensitization process that took place? What was going on in your mind? Well, by desensitization, I describe it in specific terms, is that each time I'd harm someone, each time I'd kill someone to be an enormous amount, especially at first, an enormous amount of horror, guilt, remorse afterwards, but then that impulse to do it again would come back even stronger. Now, believe me, the unique thing about how this work, Dr. Dobson, is that I still felt in my regular life the full range of guilt and remorse about other things, regret. And you had this compartmentalized, very well-focused, very sharply-focused area where it was like a black hole, it was like a crack. And everything that fell into that crack just disappeared. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. One of the final murders that you committed, of course, was apparently a little Kimberly Leach, 12 years of age. I think the public outcry is greater there because an innocent child was taken from a playground. Why did you feel after that? Where was there? Were there the normal emotions three days later? Where were you, Ted? I... I can't really talk about that right now. That's... Oh, yeah. That's too painful. I would like to... I'd like to be able to convey to you what that experience is like, but I can't, and I won't be able to talk about that. I can't begin to understand. Well, I can try, but I'm... I'm aware that I can't begin to understand the pain, that the parents of these children that I have, and these young women that I have harmed feel. And I can't restore really much to them, if anything. I won't pretend to, and I don't even expect them to forgive me, and I'm not asking for it. That kind of forgiveness is of God, and if they have it, they haven't, they don't. Well, maybe they'll find it someday. Do you deserve the punishment the state has inflicted upon you? That's a very good question. And I'll answer very... very honestly, I don't want to die. I'm not going to kid you. I'll kid you not. I deserve certainly the most extreme punishment society has, and I deserve... I think society deserves to be protected from me and from others like me. That's for sure. I think what I hope will come of our discussion is, I think, society deserves to be protected from itself, because as we've been talking, there are forces that loosen in this country, particularly, again, this kind of violent pornography. On the one hand, well-meaning, decent people will condemn behavior of a Ted Bundy while they're walking past a magazine rack full of very kinds of things that send young kids down the road to beat Ted Bundy's. That's the irony. We're talking here not just about more. What I'm talking about is going beyond retribution, which is what people want with me, going beyond retribution and punishment, because there is no way in the world that killing me is going to restore those beautiful children to their parents and correct and soothe the pain. But I'll tell you, there are lots of other kids playing in streets around this country today who are going to be dead tomorrow and the next day and the next day and next month, because other young people are reading the kinds of things and seeing the kinds of things that are available on the media today. Ted, as you would imagine, there's tremendous cynicism about you on the outside, and I suppose for good reason. I'm not sure that there's anything that you could say that people would believe. Some people would believe. And yet, you told me last night, and I have heard this through our mutual friend John Tanner, that you have accepted the forgiveness of Jesus Christ and are a follower and a believer in Him. Do you draw strength from that as you approach these final hours? I do. I can't say that being in the valley of the shadow of death is something that I've become all that accustomed to, and that I'm strong and nothing bothering me. Listen, it's no fun. It gets kind of lonely, and yet I have to remind myself that every one of us will go through this someday in one way or another and countless millions who have walked this earth before us have, so this is just an experience which we all share. And I'm telling you, because the cops let me keep killing them, Nick, Nick, Nick, get it? Not everybody is killing seven people, so there must have been something in you that was getting you... You are lost, Nick. You are lost, Nick. You are lost, Nick. I was a hitchhiking hooker. You're an inhumane bunch of fucking living bastards and bitches, and you're gonna get your asses nuked in the end, and pretty soon it's coming. In 2019, a rock's supposed to hitch anyhow, you're all gonna get nuked. You don't take fucking human life like this and just sabotage and rip it apart like Jesus is on the cross. You see, thanks a lot for all the fucking money I made off of you, and I care about a human being and the truth being told. Now I know what Jesus was going through. They've been trying to tell the truth, and I keep getting it stepped on. Concerned about if I was raped if I... I'm not giving you a book and movie info. I'm giving you info for investigations and stuff, and that's it. We're gonna have to cut this interview, Nick. I'm not going to go into any more detail.