Hello and welcome to the top floor the podcast where Charlotte area CEOs get to tell their leadership journey My name is Jeff Cass. I'm an executive coach and the leader of a peer advisory group for CEOs and business leaders here in the Charlotte area And I'll be your host today Today we have our first non-profit on the show and I'd like to introduce Chernavia Montgomery from caring Chernavia, welcome to the show. Thank you, Jeff. I appreciate the invitation. I'm excited a little nervous now knowing This is your first non-profit interview. No, well, you get to enlighten all of us. So we're looking forward to that, okay? So why don't we start there? Let's start with care ring. Okay care ring is a company that you're the CEO of Tell us a little bit about what caring does. Yes, so caring has been around since 1955 and we were founded by a community health nurse named Mirabelle Conrad who saw disparities in the community especially around chronic illness and People that were in poverty and since that time we fortunately and unfortunately have had that same mission Which is to provide accessible affordable and quality-driven care to people in our community who are in those disparate populations and low income or Under-resourced we have several different programs within our stream of What we offer a primary health clinic that is low-cost and charitable. We have a community-based program where we're going out into different neighborhoods of need with a multidisciplinary team as in partnership with Novant Health and other Organizations that are grassroots driven. We have a large community program that connects the uninsured population with specialty care services much of those those services are donated to us by atrium health and other private organizations like Ortho Carolina and Charlotte I hear nose and throat and Charlotte radiology just to name a few We receive about 70 million dollars and donated care for that program And last but not least we have two maternal child health programs Which have grown exponentially in recent years where either a bachelor's prepared nurse or a community health worker that certified is Paired with a pregnant woman in our community, and we are providing home visitation and community outreach services With that family until the child turns to we serve about 8,000 people every year and are really excited in the growth opportunities that have been presented to us Wow, wow, that's a lot. So how many employees do you have doing all of those things? Yeah, so with that growth has of course come teammate growth as well. So we have about 85 employees We have a few positions open if anyone is looking for a new career in the public health or health and human services field But we have a multi-disciplinary team. We have community health workers again that are certified. We have nurses. We have MDs we have social workers and People that are in the mental health field and our license are certified in that field Of course, we have our administrative team that ensures that we are leading from the front And yeah, but it's a wonderful multidisciplinary team and very diverse Okay, okay. Good. And I think you mentioned to me that you are moving or relocating one of your facilities, right? Yes, yes, we are we have been in the ascend or formerly children and family services center for about 20 years now and We didn't have anywhere for anyone to sit anymore with that growth And so we are a community organization and also believe that it was important for us to get back to those community routes And be embedded within a corridor of need or one of our priority health the zip codes So we are relocating at the end of the year and are really excited and really grateful for all the support that we received in our capital campaign to be able to afford that relocation will have a full food pantry in that location with refrigeration and Expanded opportunities to help solve the food insecurity crisis that we are well within we'll have lots of programming space We will have Well in sick areas for our clinic anywhere that you go normally you see that but we were unable with the space We had to divide Those two areas. So we're just little things little things that we're excited about with this with this relocation Well, that sounds like kind of a big thing, Trenavia I mean and do you do you anticipate that you will have room to grow for the next 70 years or what do you what do you see? As far as the capacity of this new facility. Well, that is something that we would have to talk about with our board I think that opportunities are limitless and that's unfortunately because the need is so great About 10 percent of Maclumbere County is uninsured and we with who we serve it's we're just scratching the surface We work in partnership with our FQHC partners and other free and charitable clinics and Are very very fortunate to have both of our hospital systems to work with as well. We consider ourselves Switzerland In that we just receive help from any and everywhere with ensuring that we are on the right path As it relates to how and who we serve. So I think there are opportunities for us to continue to expand not only in location But also in again how we're serving and we're innovative We try to stay flexible and agile in our approach and so long as our partners are aligned in that mission as well I think there are definitely areas of growth for us that we can anticipate in future years There you go. Okay So let me switch gears a little bit with you tell us more about kind of how you got to the position you're in Wow, so I am a social worker by trade I'm a 49er with UNC Charlotte And graduated in 2008 with my undergrad in 2009 with my graduate degree or master's in social work And I immediately went into the public health field and from there Gravitated towards the hospital system which really opened my eyes to systemic care And how all of the administrative functions of our health and human services operations work Uh, got that's where I got my first jobs at leadership was with atrium health really grateful for that And then took all of those skills back into the community with the role that I obtained at crisis assistance ministry as their chief program officer And that role really really entrenched me back into community and grassroots efforts that were ongoing And then the role at caring opened up. I knew Don Jonas from Other just community engagements and UNC Charlotte. We were both faculty members there And just said I think I might be able to do his job Uh, but I'm not sure so got a lot of consultation from uh peers and mentors and sponsors that I am just grateful for in my life And the board hired me. I'm still there and my key still works and I think they're happy with the job that I'm doing Um, but all of this came about because I was introduced to a social worker in My teens I was a teen parent At the 14 And that social worker sat on my couch and really Just gave me hope and I had not had that sort of experience before with a trusted adult And I didn't know at the time that she was a social worker. I just knew it was a lady That was coming to my house and sitting with me on my couch and that was encouraging me and telling me I was a good mom And giving me resources and really helping to steer me in a direction where I could foresee the future again Right if you aren't experiencing it, it's hard to see But we'll come back to that my angel of code. It's not what you said or what you did It's really how you made people feel and that feeling that she gave me I never forgot So as I looked for career opportunities, social work gravitated to me. So now in an administrative profession I feel I still bring those skills and those tools with me that have helped me to be the leader that I hope I am reflecting to be with those that I'm able to serve Wow, that's a good story. She must have motivated you significantly. I would say You didn't certainly should Okay Okay, so talk a little bit about maybe your view then of the world at that time. Did you ever see yourself becoming a CEO? I did not When I was very very young, I wanted to be a pediatrician So I think I've always wanted to help people in some way shape form or fashion But didn't really know what was available to me I think it is critical that youth are able to be exposed to different professions and have opportunities to Intern or to just observe or talk to people in different professions I'm always happy when I see programs like that that are extended to children, but I couldn't see it. So my path was a result of experiences that I was having just in learning and growing and having to adult at a very early age and having a child But I did not see that for myself as I Continued in my career path others began to definitely sew into me and help me see different opportunities that might be available and bring out some of those innate skills that I have And then pair that with things that you learn from books and from teachings And observing others then that I think has helped me to become a more holistic leader Okay, okay. So maybe talk about your leadership style that you've developed over time It's uh, I mean, I'm sure you have some good stories for us there Oh, I do I do so. I've got a blend. I think it's very situational how I lead. I try to be flexible Of course, there's some decisions and things that I have to independently own And any errors in the organization. I'm going to I'm going to eat that right? I am not going to blame others Uh, because I am the leader of this organization, but I'd say overall my style is very transactional very Transformational, um, I believe in participatory leadership and to delegate where people have strengths I really want people to have joy in the work that they do every day So having those conversations with leaders early on what brings you joy what delights you and you know What is something that doesn't motivate you or that you drag your feet around or maybe uh delay or postpone doing because it is such a drag And we figure out because there's usually somebody else that likes that task So we're just kind of have a blend and a mix. I have an outstanding senior leadership team that works incredibly well together They support one another they lean on each other Uh, and they definitely communicate well And I think that allows me to do the job that I do each and every day And that I know that they're holding the fort down back at home while i'm out fundraising Um, and talking to stakeholders and having some of those other level conversations So I think for me it is definitely situational, but I want All employees to have an opportunity throughout the year to Contribute to that vision that we have as an organization and inform me about what's going on in the community that I am not able to see I don't want to have uh blinders on to where i'm only focused on the job I do every day So, um whether they're a community health worker or a nurse Um or admin Doesn't matter. I want to hear from them so that they can help me see and inform my decisions each and every day A little bit that I've been around you my sense is very engaging So you engage at all levels I assume and uh, you know, maybe a question around that first social worker Do you find yourself being motivational like she was for you? Absolutely. I think that influence is important for a leader to have so as I've uh matured in my leadership I have Began to be a little bit more open about sharing some of those stories about my history and my experiences with health and human services I've gone through every program that I think is offered Uh, you know, I've had food stamps and Medicaid and I've had income based housing um and Low income services. So I Understand what the system can be if it's functioning properly, but things have changed So I need to know how those things have adapted to fit the needs of those members that we're trying to serve in the community today But yes talking to everyone I go on site when i'm able to go to those service areas where we're at Um, it doesn't matter where there's rain or shine if I'm needed I show up And I'm making sure that I'm tapping into the work that they're doing each and every day so that I know hey We need funding for this sort of program or we've had to be creative because we're lacking something in the organization Or there's something that it's working extremely well and we need to build upon that and do more So I can only drive this organization forward if i'm Informed by the people that are doing the work and respect their views and their opinions Okay So kind of along those lines Your team is growing Uh building a high performing team is a challenge So you if you had to maybe give uh the one or two must do things when you're building a high performing team to someone that's new A new executive. What would you say to them? Communication Communication is critical It's really the foundation of our organization Things change externally and we cannot manage that right we have no control over A worldwide pandemic for instance, right? But in order for us to remain agile and flexible in how we serve We have to talk we have to have the tough conversations We have to address Those things about our organization that you know, we sometimes want to close our eyes too Uh, we have to be willing to have confrontation that's healthy So communication is critical for an organization and then also letting people serve Uh or operate within their gifts. I think we all have something that we're innately And naturally bringing to the table and too often people find themselves in Uh, dissatisfied roles because they are Uh trying to make up for something that they think they lack but instead we should find out. What are you good at? What do you do well? And how can we build upon that and put you in a position in the organization where you can more confidently serve If you can do that well, then people remain in your organization that you have great retention Rates you're able to recruit others because they shine and people see that And they see how satisfied people are and they say I want to work there. I want to be a caring employee Uh because it it rubs off So for me, it's about making sure that people are where they ought to be within the organization and that they're paid their worth We made some critical decisions a couple of years ago to increase our base rate of pay to $18 an hour Um, I will say that no one is making $18 an hour now because we continue to offer our employees What we can by way of a cost of living increase and when we're writing grants to write that in We were not doing that prior to we all have costs that have increases increased in every walk of life And so making sure that our employees have a wage that is dignified is critical So we're doing the best we can to offer benefits to offer other pluses like, you know ample time off Especially with health and human services Uh, you are working with the public and that can sometimes be very exhausting Especially when there is something like a public health crisis ongoing Or you have families or individuals with complex needs So I want to make sure that people are practicing self care. So we offer ample time off Um, and then we have fun. We like to eat. Uh, we like to fellowship. We like to gather I think that is important. We're human and we should be connecting that was part of our our relocation need as well A lot of people were having to work from home not because they want to But because they had to we don't have any work with sit So we like to gather we like to talk to one another and share stories and Learn from one another that has gotten increasingly difficult to be a zoom. I think we're all having zoom exhaustion these days Um, so just being creative in in how we just run this organization Uh, being in the ceo seat has been very liberating for me Uh, because i've been able to practice leadership in a way Uh, where, you know, I can lean on those strengths that I have and part of it is influence and motivating And making sure that people are happy happiness is important Yeah Getting the people on the right seat on the bus so to speak. I heard that loud and clear. Yes. Okay, that's been it sounds like that's been a huge Uh task for you maybe in the team, you know, as you as you grow Yes Now you said one other thing there. Uh, you said we love to eat and that came out first before you said we wanted to gather So, uh, it sounds like when you gather you must eat something. Is that right? Is that usually things are set up? Absolutely, uh with that diversity that we have we Uh, try to invite different members of our our team to share Uh different things or aspects of their culture that they're proud of or that they want to share with others And food is very important. Uh, it is number one. We know that there are many families that have scarcity Um, but there is beauty in eating and fellowshiping and when you can do that together people tend to relax Uh, they tend to smile. They're enjoying themselves or something that goes off in the brain, right? You get your your oxytocin and your serotonin moving And there is there's just something to it. So I think having Uh, some of those unorthodox practices where you know, we we have meetings And we have to you know have strategies that we have to discuss and outcomes and quality metrics All those things have to happen Right, we want a quality driven organization, but we also need to be able to just exhale and breathe And just take a load off sometimes and so with a meeting having a meal Um, or having intentional times where we are Uh, not doing work on purpose because we want to care for the soul of the person that is doing the work Every last friday of every fiscal year, which for us that will be uh this friday We have a day of service And we have a fellowship opportunity for our team members. I share with them Our strategic plan goals for the next year And some of what we've accomplished this year, right? We don't have end of year outcomes just yet, but these are some of the things quarter one through three that we've accomplished and we celebrate We eat and we talk about what's next and then for the next half of the day We go and volunteer with other organizations that are our peers in the community Um, so every year for instance, we go to baby bundles Baby bundles is a wonderful organization that gives us these really neat green bags that have diapers and clothing and uh Small toys that are developmentally appropriate for infants a little gift for mom that just has welcomed to the world And we really appreciate that we're serving about 1300 families every year with our maternal child health programs alone So to a new mom, especially a low-income mom that gift means a lot So we just want to return the love a little bit so we go and pack some of those bags once or twice a year Um, so it's a day of service fellowshiping talking about what we've accomplished and then what we're going to strive to do forward That's a good day, but it always comes with food. That's important. Okay. Okay. I could see that. Uh, I like to eat personally. So i'm with you Join us. I welcome you to join us. I'll send out an invitation. We welcome it So this friday, so how many people will you have there the whole organization, uh, and then we invite some of our friends Um from some of our funding organizations, um or some of our stakeholders Other partners that work alongside us in the community and our friends with lisc will be there Uh lisc charlotte so rauphin callwell and he bus law. They are wonderful partners for us. Um, our public health department Uh, they just come some of we've had, um some of our elected officials join us for that meeting Um, and just come in and celebrate. We don't do anything alone Uh, we are traveling on this road together to serve members of the public and it is a shared journey that we want The members of our community embark on with us. So just coming about to say, hey, we did this not I shouldn't But we did this every member of the organization and to just cheer them on they've done incredible work and under some really difficult circumstances Many times and we're a nonprofit. So we're you know, we're not swimming in dollars Um, i'm always trying to chase more but we do what we can with what we have And I appreciate their innovation that they demonstrate throughout the year So want to get together and say brava or bravo to those employees and Help hopefully inspire them for the year forward Yeah, sounds like it's gonna be a great day seems like you're excited about it. I can tell already Okay, so let me shift gears a little bit talk a little bit. Uh, I don't know a lot about nonprofits I haven't been in one, you know, I'm used to the for-profit world and I understand kind of that, you know, that Culture a lot better. So maybe talk a little bit about Some of the challenges you have as a nonprofit and then some of the more specific challenges Maybe that you have as a caring Yeah, so Take funding is always a challenge. You know, you want to meet budget just like with any for-profit organization Uh and be accountable for, you know, what you spend but what we draw in is very heavily dependent upon Our outcomes our relationships And really what funders want to see and what they are willing to fund So we have to keep our ear close to the ground and make sure that we are nurturing and and Protecting those relationships with our funders so that we continue to receive opportunities to do the work that we're doing So aligning ourselves to that shared vision We have wonderful relationships with Our government here, um, especially with mecklenburg county They are very aligned to the work that we do and we receive an abundance of support from them We have other large funders that you can find on our website that have been supporting us for a very very long time Some of them for more than a decade So we continue to work together, but that alignment is critical for funding Also that accountability and how we're performing That's something again that I picked up at atrium about making sure that we're tracking our outcomes in a meaningful way And then sharing the impacts that we've made in the community so that we can demonstrate our value But funding is difficult. Uh, we want to tap into individual wealth more so than we have in previous years But that requires time and effort and introductions. I am not able to get into every room So our board members and others that are In part are part of the caring family. I depend heavily on them for helping to open those doors For those conversations. So funding is always a challenge. I can never sit down or rest around that I'd say the second challenge is Being able to retain staff with what we're able to pay We have a program called nurse family partnership and it has been with us Um, since 2008 It's a wonderful program with just really amazing outcomes for healthy birth weights for a full gestation pregnancies Uh that are superseding a lot of other programs within our state and in the country. It's an evidence-based program But you're asking a bachelor's prepared nurse to make significantly less than they would make if they did work for a hospital system So I really applaud and am grateful for those nurses that stay with us and that Really find it in their hearts to have compassion for what we're able to offer them But it's always a challenge You're literally asking for someone to make less money that they need for their family And last but not least it's the ever-changing environment who would have predicted Uh the pandemic, I know when I left my job at crisis to go home I took my plants because I said, oh, we'll be back in a couple of weeks, but I don't want my plants to go unwatered Look at where we landed right years Um where we were trying to manage and drive around this pandemic So our organization we never closed not one day during the pandemic We were critical especially for essential workers and those that were unable to obtain health services and were unfortunately in Uh really dire situations being exposed more so than others They didn't have a lot of those resources or protective factors that you or I may have had So we needed to stay open and we did and I'm proud of us for doing that But that makes it very difficult to navigate During the pandemic we're again a nonprofit. We're not set up to pivot in that way But we learned how we were very creative in our approach and how we chose to serve our families And i'm really proud of the work that we did But that's an external environment that we cannot control Yeah, that's right. You can't control it. You just got to deal with it. I think you know having a team that's adaptable That's important. I was just talking to somebody today about, you know, leading through the pandemic I mean it was a challenge, but you know as I think about it, maybe you can just comment on this um It kind of taught us in some ways to be more adaptable And I think the view of the world afterwards and the view of the business was different because okay Well, just because we you know, we're doing, you know business a certain way prior to the pandemic We found a lot of different ways that we could do things. Why can't we continue that? Why can't we continue that improvement? Do you feel that or can you maybe comment on that? Yes, absolutely. I Totally agree. Uh, one example that I can give is that prior to the pandemic Um, if I had my phone and I wanted a virtual visit I could I was using virtual visits for health services for years Um, I think it's wonderful that's available. My kids love it. They think they're based on your doctor Um, and it's really cool, but families that were in poverty or low income That was not something that was as easily accessible for them, but during the pandemic it became a necessity So we had to address the digital divide that existed for families that are in poverty Not everyone has internet in their home And if they do have it is it fit for something like a virtual visit or what kind of phone do you have? um, so we definitely had to address issues of Uh, resources that were in our community and those that were lacking in order for people to sustain And maintain their households during the pandemic. So we started telehealth services Um, and our patients really adapted to it and they did great And they had wonderful reflections and satisfaction. We put out surveys. How is this working for you? We don't want to be implementing something that isn't conducive to your needs, but they were grateful We got really good feedback on it and we continue to use it. Um, it's a lower cost visit And sometimes it's easier for them if you work at bojangles and you've got, you know, a 30-minute break You don't have time to go to the doctor's office and come back Especially if you take the bus Sometimes it may take people four or five bus rides or trips to get to their destination We have a very very large county and although our transportation system is improving It is still difficult to navigate So you can sit in your car and do a virtual visit or go to a break room or You know, if you need to put headphones on and be in the lobby so that we can talk about We see your your glucose or your insulin's up Or, you know, you are complaining of symptoms that may indicate you need to come in for a visit How can we work that through? And then food insecurity so finding creative ways to get people food Uber health, well, they were doing food deliveries During the pandemic and so we were able to get groceries to people that weren't able To take the bus or go and get food We just had to be creative with how we started. That's that's important, but you're right We had to address the disparities that existed with those that are in poverty They it just illuminated a lot and opened the eyes I think of the general public as to some of the strains that are both contemporary and historical For members of our community that are a part of those populations You know, I never did a tela, you know, doctor's visit until the pandemic It was very convenient, you know, because the same thing. I mean, you know, you have to take time off I think, you know, a lot of us, you know, we spent a little bit of time on video But generally speaking, it wasn't what we did now. It's a way of life It's a way to, you know, help with the folks that are all virtual Because there's a lot I talked to a one ceo that is a hundred percent virtual with his business They they live by video, right? They live by being, you know, attached virtually Agreed Yeah, so a lot has changed and, you know, in some ways, you know, we, you know, I wouldn't want to go back to the pandemic I wouldn't want to lead through that again, but happy for some of the changes that have happened, you know, since then so um, so yeah So I hear, you know, some of the things that you say you do fundraising is a key part of what you do It sounds like, um, so talk a little bit about what you enjoy most about being a CEO Oh gosh. Um, I I love leading people. I love Inspiring and driving our organization towards what I believe is a shared vision Again, I don't do anything alone. I think that's just my my social worker nature to Uh, I have others that are alongside me in that path, but I love leading people I just love people period. I'm an extrovert. If you can't tell, uh, I do not need any strangers Um, and so that is uh, that's important for me to be able to lead people Um, I also enjoy the creativity that i'm able to bring To my job day-to-day and the innovation that we've been able to Uh, to bring about in a non-profit space And I love the relationships that i've been able to develop with funders that have allowed us to have that capacity Um I love the flexibility that I have in my day-to-day. I don't like when my day is the same every day I like to have uh, you know, I like to be able to pivot, you know, I love a challenge, right? Because our, those of who are serving every day I've always said it takes a lot of creativity to be in poverty You have to make things work out of nothing Sometimes, and so I think that is just in my nature To to do that and I find joy This time around with having to be creative Not out of necessity, but out of choice And I think that helps to make me a little bit different of a leader Um, I don't do things by the book I really believe that we should listen to the ground and the people that we're serving and not Do things to them or for them because they're easy It's harder to do things with people sometimes But in time, once you build that trust and you're able to overcome some of those barriers Then it does get easy because people are willingly receiving your services They want them They are attracted to them because you are bringing things to them that are respectful and dignified and in a way that's culturally appropriate Um, and then you get great outcomes when people are engaged The work gets easy because then everyone's working along in the same grain Um, so I enjoy all of those things about my job and I'm just eternally grateful for my board for trusting me to be in this role Okay, yeah, no doubt, no doubt. I feel a lot of energy, you know, every time we talk So that's good. Uh, now, you know, you have a passion for the business It sounds like and for many of the things that you're doing You know, and I remember my time as a leader and I'm sure a lot of your folks as well I mean Maintaining some kind of balance with your life and work is a bit of a challenge. Can you maybe talk about that? How do you deal with that? Yeah, so I am finding uh joy in new things Um, I went through a great program on the american leadership forum with the lee institute uh back in 2019 and uh 2020 And there was an outward bound component of that program and I I was very frightened at thinking about what outward bound and You know, is that going to work? I love gardening. I love being um, I'm a southern girl in a born In mobile alabama. So, you know, I I love the earth. However, being an outward bound program That's a different sort of situation But I found out I love hiking Um, I didn't know I would so when I can I love hiking Um, I love to take naps. Uh, there's a great book that talks about nap ministries, you know, napping can be a ministry So I love a good nap Um, I love cooking. I that is uh cooking and music are my other love languages I if I love you, I cook for you And I love being in the kitchen and inventing things and experimenting Um, and just making really good wholesome quality meals for my family and my friends Uh, and then music. I'm a poly muse. So I've got a little bit of everything in my playlist You know rne wrap jazz a little bit of country some rock Um, it is my playlist is just all over the place But I I find joy in those things and of course spending time with my family Um, I have all boys And so I've got a lot of testosterone in my house So it's very rough and tumble And uh, I make sure that my emergency room co-pays are paid up each year Uh, because someone's going to have to go at some point during the year But I love just spending time with them and that's evolving how I spend time with them and what I do with them Um, they're agreeing and they're growing and I'm just really really grateful to be your mom I mean, I think they chose me. That's how I think the world Um, so I see a little bit of myself and them and my husband They're very hybrid children, you know, just cross factors and traits that they have Um, so I I love that and just spending time with them is very meaningful to me at this point in my life So you gave me way more things you'd like to do now, but how do you balance it? Right? I mean, so you how do you keep all these things in the air these show these balls juggling? No, well, I I am great at delegating again when you find The what people do well, then people can own those things I trust the leaders that I've chosen that are a part of our organization And when I can hand things off to them because I know they're going to perform and they give nothing short of excellence Then that means I don't have to micromanage. I am definitely not a micromanager Um, and we have great communication all those things that I mentioned before So that allows me to really focus on my job and the things that are in my description And so that I'm not overworked So that helps me balance and then I have great support at home. Um, my my husband is is wonderful And I'm fortunate in that we're very different So the things that he enjoys doing are very different from the things that I enjoy doing And so that allows me to be at a fundraiser or uh to have A an after hours networking opportunity because he's introverted. Now he'll go with me if I need him to go But that that balance that we have and that we've created in that I respect the things that he enjoys, which is quiet downtime And then me I get I'm recharged by spending time with people We're able to make sure that we both receive those things. Um, I'm getting better about balance. I have work to do Um, I like to achieve if you can't tell Um, I'm competitive with myself And I have learned that I am needing to embrace the fact that I'm enough And I don't have to overcompensate It's taken me time to get there. I have a little bit of ways to go But I'm I'm working on that and I appreciate those that are Feeding me that uh that notion so that I can I can embrace it a little bit more So working on working program We will always be working on that. I mean, you always have a lot of things you want to do. I'm sure so Good. Thanks for that. That was a good explanation So talk a little bit if you would you mentioned, you know folks that are helping you there Talk a little bit about maybe a coach or a mentor outside of maybe the first social worker that really motivated you You know that you would say has significantly changed your life personally or professionally So I have mentors and I have sponsors Um, and those sometimes they can be both um, however, I really look to individuals and some of them are not even in my field They're not human services workers. They may be in the for-profit scene But they've done things like achieve ballots in their lives or Uh, they are striving towards whatever their next best self is So I also need individuals that are in spaces that I'm not And they can vet me Or open a door for me and sometimes give me a push. I have needed a push Um, I was very comfortable with my role at atrium health and Really appreciated all that I had achieved there and what I learned But there was part of me that was screaming to be back out in the community And so I was volunteering a lot. I was on multiple boards I was feeding that itch by or that hunger by overcompensating And I needed better balance And so one of my mentors just pushed me and said you need to think this through more And really come up with a checklist of what you need from a job And is the role that you're currently in feeding that need and it was not Um, I am grateful that I still maintain those relationships with atrium Um, because of course they play a huge role in the role that I'm in today Uh, but I need people in my life that are sometimes going to challenge me And I'm really fortunate to have them I'd be able to to talk to me a little bit differently And give me some mothering sometimes or some fathering Um, and and some tough love because I need it. I need it But mentors sponsors Uh, peers I have great peers, uh, that are very honest And we have transparent conversations about challenges that we're experiencing Leadership can be very lonely Um at the city level, you know, you can't put all of your burdens on your senior staff or others that's inappropriate So I do need safe spaces and so those mentor sponsors and my peers offer me that and you know helps keep me afloat Okay, okay, but it sounds like tough love is one of the things you value the most from them. Is that right? I do. I do. Yeah Okay, somebody that can speak honestly with you and you know really cuts of the chase that knows you well enough that you know knows What maybe you are ignoring, uh, or maybe what you need to hear. Is that it? Yes, that's it I can I can be in denial sometimes about things that I need to change or do differently And if someone really knows you they they know why you're struggling or they can ask those open-ended questions to help you explore Um again in a safe environment where you can evaluate what you may need to do differently or better Um, so those are relationships that I try to protect and uh, some of them are public some of them are not I think you should have a diverse array of people in your life that can help you get there and not necessarily again in the field That you're in people have strengths and they have They have things that they can contribute towards your life that are a value that you may not sometimes see at first but In time they'll reveal themselves Yeah, that's needed. That's good So chanavia, um, you you seem very aware of yourself I mean and what I kind of interpret as you're talking is you know, you know yourself Well as you kind of kind of came to the conclusion you needed to have more involvement in the community and you seem to have found A job, you know, at least to me, you know sitting here for the little bit that I've known you, you know seems to fit well with your personality But what have you learned, you know kind of along this journey, you know that you've been on, you know, at least in your career Anything else you've learned about yourself that maybe it's that's important Yeah, I don't have to be everything um And I think I'd sometimes tend to overcompensate and that comes back to childhood to being a teen mom and being Feeling very inadequate or that I disappointed people and so I have to be Everything and parenting alongside that just made for a very heavy Adolescence and Young adulthood for me, but as I have grown older I just recognize that I again I'm enough and that the things that I bring to the table are of value and are Able to be of use to others and I don't have to do everything I don't have to go out and get another certificate or another degree Um, or I don't have to struggle through the aspects of my job that I hate I can find others to support me in that or find balance, you know Have scheduled opportunities for me to go through those things that are are less Uh, less of value to me in my head. I'm not enjoying them Um, but it's okay. It's it's okay having a strengths-based approach to leadership And not trying to overcompensate that's exhausting and I will burn out very quickly Um, I want to keep a smile on my face. I want to be happy when I pull up to my job every day And I want others to feel the same way. So Um, I think other things that I've learned I, um Again, micromanaging, I have to trust the people that I'm working with And micromanaging I think is a waste of time And I don't think it's of value to either party And so building trust and making sure that I'm spending time doing that early on and that employee-employer relationship Um, that's critical, but that's social work skills. Um, it's not something that I think most CEOs Um, really Again, I'm I'm driving from a place of leadership where I'm people centered Um, the metrics are important, but those things will come about if you have People that are in those roles that are happy and that find joy in their work. Um, so Shine away from social work. It's made me a better leader. I think it's a non-traditional background for any CEO to have Um, but I think it's really added value into how I lead Um, so not feeling like I have to lead like other people lead I struggle with that in early leadership wanting to be like someone else Um, or being pushed towards doing that And I've just said no in recent years and led in a way that's comfortable for me But took a little bit of courage and it was very risky, but I think it's paying off Yeah, if you're always chasing something else, you know, you have to do or improve. That's tough I might imagine that you know, you never are satisfied Being comfortable in your own skin and your own style. I was talking to somebody about that on friday I had an interview with somebody friday and we were talking a lot about that because he was saying, you know, I'm I'm not the most I'm the most even keel person you're going to meet I am not, you know, I'm going to be the Outward energy for the organization. You might be that. I mean, I can sense that potentially, but it wasn't going to be him But I think that's you know being comfortable with your own skin. I think in your own style is what you're saying That's what you come to absolutely and and the skin is important too. I mean, I don't look like most ceos either I'm very short. I've been told I I look taller on camera I'm all of five feet tall You know, I am a black woman and nationally less than five percent of ceos in the nonprofit field are black women. So I Usually alone in rooms that I'm in. I'm the only one of me Um, but that in itself. I'm on the younger end. Um, you know, I'm in my mid 40s But again, I have a lot of things that are working against me But I am doing my best and trying to be comfortable with who I am and where I am and what I bring to the table And knowing that that is all I need to be successful. I can learn things I have other people in my life that are able to support me and those things that I may not be as strong in Um, but there are others like there are people in my organization that don't want to be forward facing that know They're like, I'm I am good in the background. Um, I am, you know, project managing I am supporting metrics and outcomes. I'm doing research. You know, I'm doing communications People are happy and the roles that they're in Uh, and then I I'm buying being out front and sharing that mission out really and Making sure that I'm being a good representative of our organization But it's just about finding what you're good at and what you like doing And if you're fortunate enough to find a role like that, I think that's where the success Um, and that feeling of accomplishment comes from So how long did it take for you to feel comfortable walking into that room for instance with a lot of other CEOs where maybe You know, you were a little different, right? At least, you know, hourly you were a little different I still have challenges with that sometimes depending upon the room that I'm in um It's Natural for me to scan the room, um to see, you know, who others are I look for familiar faces Uh, try to know who might be there ahead of time Um, but again, I have to Let that go And exhale and just be present because if I'm occupied or preoccupied with Those sorts of thoughts then I'm not going to be able to naturally be me Um, and I really want to be authentic Inorganic in my approach with people, but you know, even recently I was in a room where I knew no one and people were in a very different tax bracket than I'm in Um, very different professions than I'm in and I still had to show up for caring That is my role. I am here to be caring And to make sure that what we do is pronounced and and seen invisible so that they can hopefully find A thread of what they can attach them to with our organization and add value to who we are So I'm still working on that because I'm being introduced to new spaces all the time That's part of my job is to widen and deepen our community's relationship with caring And it means that I sometimes will have to be in those sorts of rooms and that's okay So I'm doing the best I can with what I have Yeah You're uncomfortable at times, but we all should be at times and learn how to deal with it. So okay, that's that's great We grow from this kind of if I just did everything that was comfortable all the time, then how would I learn to be better? We would probably wouldn't be talking here today. I'm guessing right. Yeah, sir. No, sir All right, so trinity. I got one more question for you here. Okay, so um So if you you've been a CEO now for a little while If you had to give some advice to a new executive or a new CEO, what would it be? Oh gosh, some of what I've already mentioned just lean into your strengths, you know, find out what they are There are great assessments um strength finders. I was introduced to that Um through my work at crisis and also through the lee institute and alf. So I am Uh, my first strength is woo. So winning others over. Uh, it's my number one and then input I love to collect information from others and and listen and to hear what they have to say because I think that adds value to the work that I do Um, which the next one is strategy. I love to strategize and think forward Uh, positivity, um and communication Those are all my strengths and when I'm operating in all of those strengths together Then I think I am my best self and that is what I think others should strive to do Um, some of the other things that are not in my top five or top ten That's when I look for talent within the organization where those are their strengths And so definitely finding your tribe finding your team Um, and that's both professionally and personally I have Wonderful personal relationships that add value to my life when I'm not at work And I no longer believe there's work life balance. I think it's just life And you want people in your life in both settings that are able to contribute towards who you are And who you're choosing to be each and every day. So just taking care of yourself in whatever capacity that means for you Operating in your strengths and then utilizing and developing the strengths of others Um, it will make you stronger as an individual and then as a collective organization That's great. Yeah, I'd say and how many people I would say are as in tune with themselves as you That's my that's my interpretation. So that's a that's a terrific skill there. Genevia that really is So listen, thank you again for being on the show. I appreciate everything you had Uh, I'm going to wrap this up now and we'll talk for just a second. Okay. All right. Thank you, Jeff.
