Hello and welcome to the top floor, the podcast where Charlotte area CEOs get to tell their leadership journey. My name is Jeff Cass. I'm an executive coach and the leader of a peer advisory group for CEOs and business leaders here in Charlotte, and I'll be your host today. I'm glad to welcome Joe Pat Roop from Belmont Capital Advisors. Joe Pat, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Jeff. It's good to be here. Yeah, you're keeping cool today. It's a little warm out there. It is definitely hot in the air conditioner is working. Extra time here we have our main office is a home built in 1898. So there's a lot of cracks for that cold air to slip through. So, but we've. It's working hard to try to keep us cool anyway. Okay. Okay. And you're actually in the town of Belmont. Correct. Yep, we're two doors up from City Hall, right on Main Street, our address. I couldn't make this up. It's 123 North main so 123. That's an all American address. You got to love it. Yeah. Yeah, that's for sure. So, so you and I talked a little bit leading into this interview, but tell us a little bit about what you do and how long you've been with Belmont Capital Advisors. Yeah, so we Belmont Capital started in 2009. I think I incorporated February or March of 2009. And I've been in this financial planning industry since 1992. When I started as an intern with Merrill Lynch and college, but. Really, if you guys know much about the markets 2008, 2009, you know, we were going through the Great Recession there. And just really felt like there was no direction for me at the current. Sort of one of those big box firms I was working at. I didn't really like everything going into the market. And even back then we focused on, you know, retirement planning for folks entering into and going through retirement. So, so this, this sort of helped us branch off, become our own entity and really start doing independent financial planning without the oversight of some corporate bureaucracy telling us what to do. So, today, we really only answer to our employees and our clients, primarily our clients. There's, they're the folks who drive everything for us. And those clients we work with are really the folks that are, you know, entering into retirement, getting close to retirement. And a lot of folks come to us after they're in retirement because they realize, hey, this really worried about losing or running out of money in my retirement and paying too much in taxes on their income. So those, those are the primary areas we focus with our practice. Okay. So 2009, you know, we know what was going on then you mentioned at the Great Recession. So that must have been an interesting, interesting decision to start the business at that point. You mentioned we, so was it just you that was starting it or are there multiple people at that point that we're starting it. So it was myself and a part time assistant, and my wife at the time she had a day job in Charlotte so she was doing her thing. I always say we because now we've just grown and they're so, you know, we have about five or four to six financial advisors, depending on how you count our CFPs are service advisors. But we just, I can't do this by myself today. And so it's, it's back then I guess you could say it was I, but that was the beginning faces. It was myself and a part time assistant. And that quickly blossomed from a probably a 12 but 12 small office in downtown Belmont here. And we moved across the street from a post office into a, into a more permanent office building we stayed there for. Quite some time, but we've been in our new office now since for about five years, I believe, here on Main Street, but we only moved block away so it's always been right here in downtown Belmont so. Okay, so tell us about that decision like how difficult was it sounds like you know you knew you wanted to get away from maybe corporate bureaucracy but was it a challenging thing where you know you're kind of putting the, you know, the whole house on the, on the line so to speak to start a business or was it something that was in your mind a little less risky. You know, Jeff, I think I would like to tell you and everybody that it was a very planned decision and. You know, but it wasn't it was a very tough time in my life. I was struggling at the firm I was with I felt like they didn't have the right offerings for our clients and I was actually contemplating getting out of the business altogether. And luckily a friend of mine contacted me and he was actually someone I trained into business years before this he told me what he was doing. And he was in the independent space and I didn't realize then how much opportunity and freedom and independent advisor has versus some of the bigger box retail versions. And so when he sort of went through that with me I said you know what, this sounds great I knew him and trusted him. And he said here's here's a roadmap for you to run on. And I really put my nose down I took that roadmap and I started running. And I went on really blind faith as I had trained him before and now it was like the tables were turned and. And he sort of trained me into the marketing side of this business and you know the client acquisition side for an independent advisor so we picked that up pretty fast I already knew the nuts and bolts of the business. And so we really did get up and running really quick. And you know it turns out while that was a very tough time in my career and life with the market going down just, you know, and we were having a tough time like everybody else with the market and the economy and everything. This turned out to be I would say the best move I ever made is starting to company and getting going and and you know, having that, you know, independence that we now have. Okay, okay. So that's good really interesting crossroads to a life and business but today you've grown substantially in that 15 years right so how many, how many total people do you have at Belmont. I think the numbers pretty close to 18 right now it ebbs and flows between the account interns we might be at 20, but I think people that are on the payroll that were actually paying or probably 18. Okay. Yeah, so pretty nice growth over 15 years so that yeah that decision was an important one. Okay so fast forward to today, we understand the challenges you face then growing the business you know hiring right people you know getting new clients it sounds like what are your biggest issues or problems that you face today. You know, today I think finding qualified talent is tough. We would love to hire a couple more great financial advisors but, but hiring qualified advisors that actually know and understand the taxes, and you know to really do a holistic plan. We probably need CFPs so we've we've looked to hire more CFPs. But it's there, there's, they're not just sort of like fish jumping into the boat we have to really look for them find the right person that understands this business and wants to work hard this is a tough business especially to start and most people do fail as starting off as a financial advisor. I think in our offline conversation you mentioned you have a family friend who they're the one person out of their class that started in their firm that that's still there. That could be said the same for me and some of the classes that I went through in my growth through the years doing this, but so it is it's tough but if you love the business you love the people, and you can really help folks, you know, get somewhere. You can tell people we don't help you get there once once you're there we're going to want to help you preserve what you have and make sure it never goes away so I'm, I'm kind of on the back nine of this. Phase one is the accumulation side, we're phase two, where you've accumulated it we're going to help you preserve it and make sure you never have to go back to work. Okay, and part of that is the investment strategy part of that would be the taxes I assume right I mean what other components are there in your planning. So, you know, the first thing we look at is income where are your income sources, how predictable and sustainable are your income sources. A lot of us you notice we just think of a number everyone has this number that they think they need, but really it depends on do you want to leave assets to your children do you want to die broke. And these days, surprisingly, a lot of folks are saying no, I've paid for the college I paid for the weddings, I'm happy to let them go with no inheritance. And you know so their goal is, you know, to die as close to broke as they can but, but they still need the income to preserve their integrity throughout their lifetime so we're going to use the combination we're a holistic planning firm so we're really looking at taxes, insurance investments, everything together, and how can we have that sustainable predictable consistent income stream for them throughout the retirement. And, you know, there was a study done I forget which big insurance company it was, but they surveyed about 3000 baby boomers and they found out that 68% of them were really, they were more afraid of running out of money versus dying. So it's a true fear that, you know, I really think in most cases it can be solved. And, and if you really have that as a focus of preserving their assets and or income, people are really surprised about how little it takes once they really sit down with us. But there is, it is a challenging thing I mean, you know, to pull the trigger I you know having done it you know we're retiring from the corporate life and making that decision you look at the finances and say okay this is what I got to live on for the rest of my life. And the big variables are how long are you going to live. What are you going to do how you're going to spend it. But I also would say and maybe you can share a little bit of your experience here is finances are only part of the decision to retire because you deal with a lot of retirees. I mean, you know, lifestyle and enjoyment of life you know in retirement you know all those things are big components is that a big part of your discussion with your clients. Yeah, really understanding their lifestyle is very, very critical. You know, are you a member of a country club you trade trade cars every two years. You know just those you know where do you travel and how do you travel like you know one time a guy said to me says well am I going to have enough for a travel budget and I'm like well. Where do you travel and how you know, and you know he said well we'd like to go to Myrtle Beach about three times a year and we always stay at the Hampton Inn. Brother you're good. And then you know he was going to be he could he could he could go 10 times a year if he wanted. But I was listening for we're going to take a lot of cruises we're going to stay at to Ritz Carlton. You know, is it a $50,000 a year travel lifestyle or a 10 or 15 and so to each client those are just they're very different things but to each one they're very, very important. Making sure that we've budgeted in to their annual budget for their income. Lifestyle travel grandkids whatever those things are. And then you know you also really need to be planning for the unexpected and you know even though I've been in this business for you know now over 30 years. Never ceases to surprise me is the things that always surprised me and my clients it's just, we never thought we would see that happen and then we see it. And, you know, it's just, we are constantly amazed, you know, at the different things and what's amazing to me is how, how quick we forget is these things that we're talking to clients today, and their memory of 2008 2009 is very foggy you know they don't remember those days when that 401 K lost 40% and they just think the stock market is this ever climbing animal that just, you know, never goes down and you have to sort of remind them that hey yes there's, there's been many periods that it's not only lost but stay flat for many years so education is a big big I really feel like that's the biggest part of what we do is helping clients understand where they're at where they're going but do that through education. We don't really push upon anyone certain products. It's helping you understand that lifestyle everyone here gets what we call one page plan. It's simple it's it's understandable. And, you know, a couple times we had some multi multi million dollar folks come in and I was a little bit intimidated. At first because I'm like are they going to really resonate with our plan, but I still give them the same plan I give everybody else and, you know, to my surprise. We said, thank you so much. No one has ever showed us a plan like this, that we can understand. Certainly they'd seen plans before, but, but the key thing is can you execute. And I could give you a 20 page plan a 50 page plan but if you cannot execute on that plan, then it's kind of worthless and so, so our plans are executable. They're one page you can walk out of our office with us. And so that's really like our flagship. That's the thing we hang our hat on is, it's a one page plan. It's simple to understand you know where you're at, you know where you're gone. And if life changes if it throws you a curveball, come in, we update your plan. And, you know, hopefully we can straighten things out. Okay, so talk a little bit about your clients, if you would, do you start working with them on the plan before retirement in most cases or are most of them post retirement. You know, unfortunately. Or fortunately for us, it depends how you want to look at it. Most clients come to see us about a month to six months before they retire. Oh boy. So now, as a financial advisor, I would tell you, hey, if you're 40 years old, you need to start to yet today if you're 20 years old, you need to start today like start start. You know, when is the best day to plan a treat 20 years ago. So that's what people should be doing but if I'm telling you what they actually do, you know, we host a radio show retirement for living on WBT. And a lot of folks listen to me there, but when they actually make the phone call is when they've gotten the pink slip or they get, you know, one year severance and they're like, well, I guess I need to go talk to Joe Pat now and figure out how we're going to do this thing. So that tends to be when they come in, if they would have come in sooner. Yes, there's multiple things we could have started on. You know, guiding them where their taxes are now versus where they're going to be, start doing some of those planning steps ahead, but we just meet you where you are today. Okay, and we're honest with where you are today. And then we, you know, look at the challenges that you face, whether that be taxes, income, whatever they might, those things might be, we address those educate you on them. And then all that goes into the one page plan. And then we give you something that you can execute on so that you can have that consistent durable income throughout your retirement. Okay. So ideally you'd have folks that were planning for retirement when they're 40 or 30, but I, you know, typically it sounds like when you get them it's right before retirement that's that's the more common thing then you'll meet them where they are. Yep. Yep. So a new customer we just brought on last week. They're still retiring from Wells Fargo. They're getting a one year severance. They still have six months in the severance. But for the most part, they don't expect to go back to work. So now that the money is getting ready to end, they're now talking to us. So that, again, tends to be kind of typical. So people if you're listening and things, you know, that's normal that, you know, a lot of people feel bad and nervous about coming in, whether you talk to us or someone else, just go in and talk to a financial advisor. We're really here to help you get that plan started and, you know, start, start helping you make the right decisions to move you in the right direction. One, two, three main street right. Yeah. I'll always remember that. So okay so I understand from you from listening to you that one of the things that differentiates your firm would be a simple comprehensive plan, something that people can understand anything else that would differentiate you from a competition. I think we, we really focus on taxes, a lot of financial advisors at the big retail firms are not permitted to even discuss taxes with clients. And so we want to work hand in hand, we're not doing people's taxes. We're not CPAs, but we do understand, raw conversions, the taxation of IRAs, you know, there's a lot of mystery out there about how social security is taxed. What makes it taxable versus not taxable. So we give classes on a regular basis on social security planning, how social security is taxed, how to potentially avoid taxes on social security, whether you qualify for that or not. And so having a very deep understanding of the taxes as it pertains to income, especially in retirement. You know, that's something that I think definitely sets us apart, because that's really hand in glove when it comes to your income planning. If you can save money on taxes, or we don't want surprised as a financial advisor, clients calling us at the end of the year saying, Hey, I need $20,000 for taxes. And a lot of people don't realize, but taxes are probably going to be your number one big expense in retirement. And so we want to just tackle that head on, help people understand where they're at today, what type of lifetime tax bill they're going to have, and are things that we can be doing to help them with that a lot of people also know about the required minimum distributions. That's when you turn a specific age, it's into your 70s now, 73s when it starts now, you have to start the government forces you to take money out of your IRA and pay taxes. And so the final step, you know, is also we're doing end of life planning, legacy, you know, and helping them understand how is their IRA going to be taxed when they pass away what about life insurance, how does that fit in. And then, you know, another big hole in people's armor is long term care. You know, we were seeing clients start now to pay used to be 10,000, 9,000 a month was a lot. We've now seen clients pay upwards of 12, $13,000 a month for long term care expense. So, there's ways to plan around that. Even if you don't want to pay insurance premiums for that because most people don't want to, and a lot of people just can't afford to. There's still ways to plan around that and do so in a cost effective and tax efficient way. Okay, okay, sounds good. All right, so I'm going to maybe take a little bit of a change here or the question so I want to go back to one thing that you were talking about earlier and talk more about your business okay. So you had mentioned that you had a coworker or maybe a former coworker that had given you a lot of advice when you were starting this business. Can you maybe talk about, you know, the most influential coach or advisor you've had, you know, either maybe starting the business or since you've started the business. So when I started a business. I affiliated with the group, called three mentors, and this was, they were basically three coaches. One of them was my friend, who I had trained and now he was turning into tables and helping train me as an independent advisor. And he had two other partners, and they formed a company called three mentors that's since been sold and moved on. But so they, we would meet on a quarterly basis. And really just share best ideas what's working in your practice. You know, how are you acquiring clients. What is the best ways to do it. And really, how can you grow your business. In those days it was really from zero to, you know, wherever you want to be maybe it was a million dollars a year $2 million a year. These days we're doing a lot better than that. But, but back then, if, if I remember my first year in business, we did 400,000 in revenue. And, you know, at the time that was good. And we've consistently grown and doubled and tripled that multiple times since then. But, but those early stages of meeting on a quarterly basis with your peers and other people who had already been down this path. I think that was really instrumental for me in, you know, surviving those early years, having a really good group to call on if you were in a, in a tight spot. That sort of understand, understood what you're going through and could really help you through that. So at the time they were focused on your industry and helping folks that were in financial planners right so that was very, I guess timely and needed for you correct. Yep, everything worked out. You know, I, I think it was God, but. You know, I think it was his hand. I'll just say that. Yeah. Okay. So you found them at the right time they found you, however it was divine intervention, but it was something that helped you get off the ground and needed so that I could see where that timing was important. And the type of advice was really important. So how long did you work with three, three mentors you said right. I think we worked with them for about five years. And I've since then transitioned over to a group called impact partners throughout of Marietta Georgia. And, and so they've, they've kind of morphed into more of a strategic alliance for us. So we do get some coaching some consulting through them. They help us on the marketing side. They helped me produce my radio show. The TV work that I do a lot of times all will go down to Marietta record the TV commercials. And then they edit them and shift them up here to Charlotte and they air up here so so they're, they're a very good partner for us in that space as well. Okay. I see. Yeah. So, so what about running the business because now you're also, you know, you went from two people to 18 or 20 whatever it is right now you have to spend a significant amount of time running the business. Do they help you run the business as well and give you advice there. So, some days, I have sometimes, sometimes I will say that, you know, as any business grows, and you go from being the guy in the field doing it yourself to training others to do what you previously did. So I'm in financial planning so now we have other financial planners working for us. And I'm trying to guide and coach them and do less of that myself. So whatever field or business you're in, if you started the company there was a day when you were in the ditch digging, you were laying the pipe, whatever it is in your business right. And so, so today I'm half in half out. And I'm really transitioning this so that this business can run without me. So then my personal opinion, I don't think I can really say that I have a company unless this company can operate without me. When it can operate without me in the driver's seat, then I've created something. But making that transition. Some people in my industry they don't want to make the transition. I see tremendous freedom with that. I, I get as much or more joy watching advisors grow, provide for their family, and, you know, provide for clients as much as I do setting with the client. So, so I really do get a high from that and watching that happen watching and train them. That's fun for me. And, and so that's, it's, it's, I've made a conscious decision to bring those people on to grow our business to have other offices. We have an office in Cornelius we're getting ready to open one and sell Charlotte. So, so those kind of growth, you know, you now have to keep the culture, and those other offices maintain your standards, and still make payroll. So it becomes a bit of a juggling act. And so, maybe it's the term player coach right now is where you are, right, because you are a player you have to, you have to, you know, basically manage some business, but then you also have to coach new advisors and run the business. So you're still on that point, but you ultimately want to be the coach only is that that's what you're working towards. Yep. Yep. Ultimately that that's where I would like to be at least have that choice. There'll always be a few clients that'll never give me up and I'll never give them up. But, but that's fine. Yeah. Okay. All right. Fair enough. And maybe you answered some of this, but if you think maybe the next over the next five years, what are your aspirations for the business. So, ultimately, I would like to grow the business to be over a billion dollars in assets under management. And that's not accounting insurance or annuities that's just mutual funds ETF stocks and bonds and those things. And that's, that's one longer term goal. It'll probably take us a little more than five years to do that and probably thinking more like eight or 10. But that's the direction I'm heading. And then having multiple offices here in Charlotte, and really having a key advisor in each of those offices one, two or three key advisors depending on the location and really help them grow and make, make a lot of money and have fun. Maybe a really fun business, helping clients, watching them enjoy their retirement without worrying about what the stock market or China is going to do tomorrow. You know, when I see people come into our office, and they, they literally are stressed out like they were at work because they're worried about the stock market to worry about the presidential election and you know that's, you know, that's on topic today. But really like we're talking about a 30 year retirement plan. We got to do something that's going to work no matter which guy gets elected or a gal gets elected. You know, we, we have to expect the wrong person that you think you want elected isn't they probably won't get it. Right. We need to be okay with that because our income is needed for 30 years. And many of our clients want to leave a legacy for their kids so, so watching those advisors grow, helping them do that for their clients and then taking that stress off the client. And, you know, having them be able to provide above average living for their family is. I really get a big kick out of that. Okay, that's what you enjoy most of the business right now. Yeah. Yeah, I would say today that's what I enjoy the most. Okay. So you're working on your third office then do you see more than three offices in the Charlotte area. Yeah. You know, within the easy driving geographic area here you know, you know, we're really doing it by advisor finding the right person to put there but Rock Hill Concord. Morrisville Denver, you know, all of those are just just building around 45 really Fort Mill. All of those are great growing locations that strict. I think statistically clients don't want to drive more than 20 minutes to see their financial advisor. Okay. Okay. So a lot of people do it over zoom and they talk about that but I've found those tend to be more transactional. We are much more face to face. Get to know you have a relationship versus a one off transaction. Okay. Yeah, I would think so. My financial advisor is my brother, by the way, so I like to face to face with him and trust is an important thing. So you can build that a probably a lot better if you're in person than over zoom. Zoom has changed a lot but I assume that that's what where you're going when you want to be close to your clients. Yep. Yep. I mean the world works with zoom and that's fine if we have to hop on a zoom with the client. But but we really like to meet you face to face get to know you and understand who you are what you're about what your goals are and build a plan that really reflects your goals. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So talk a little bit if you would about your own personal development over time because I'm thinking more about people skills because you have to deal with clients every day. Some of them stressed out, as you mentioned, but you also had to learn to manage more people inside your business, which might be a little bit different kind of people skills. So talk about that if you would, because I think that's an important skill for any leader if they're running a business they have to have good people skills. And sometimes we're just not equipped with it when we first start becoming a manager or a leader. You know, I think sometimes as a business owner we probably forget that our number one clients are our employees first. So a lot of times as a business owner you think of your customers, but really your employees are the first facing outreach that are touching your customers. And so really we we building that culture building. You know, a culture of care, helping our employees understand our goals and values the clients goals and values, and have them be very respectful to them. I think I think it's very, very important. You know, but these are things I didn't think of when I started the company. And so, you know, originally I read books like Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. And I kind of avoided all those management books. Since then I'm now kind of turning back and saying okay what can I learn what's out there, because you know management is a skill to. And I've just worked super hard to get here. And, but I realized to grow to that next level to create a company that can run without me. You know, you also really need to understand the management side and the people skills of the employees, not just your clients. Yeah, and what's what is that culture that's important so if a business is going to run without you there has to be a defined kind of culture there has to be a defined how we do business and I think was that was that something that evolved for you over time as the business group. And it's really evolved and, you know, one of the guys that I worked with still today, his name is Gary Reed he was one of the three mentors and he still, I still keep in touch with him and, and he kind of told me one time, I was talking about an employee I was having trouble with. And he goes we have to sandwich this you have to tell him something good, then tell him the bad and then give him something good again like you got it, you know, start off easy, give him the bad news and do that, you know, and I've never really thought about that. I'm just like, well they're screwing this up I need to tell them and he's like no, no, no, no, you just, you might lose them that way, and I'm like, okay, so you know, until those type of things come around, it's not something that I really thought about. Okay, okay, I was acting just like my clients they show up here two months before they're going to retire and they're like hey can I do it. And it's like the employees are already here and it's like oh you mean I need to be a good manager. So, so that's definitely again I didn't go into this thinking I'm going to have 20 employees. They just sort of showed up as growth and demand. You know. Okay. There must have been more to that I would think I mean Joe Padam you're being maybe a little bit humble here so talk about maybe how you how it evolved because you don't grow from two people to 20 just by by accident right so maybe for you think thinking back. What were those key things that helped you grow or have helped you grow. So one of the things that three mentors told me in the beginning, one of the other guys names of the three mentors is Rodney and Rodney said, do this plan. Don't do not alter the plan. And I listened and I did it. That was very good advice. And so. On going people said, when you get this busy, you need to hire an assistant. You need to hire another advisor. You need to hire a junior advisor. You need to hire. And so I was very quick to adapt. I knew that I only had this many hours in a day that I could only see effectively two to four people a day. I knew that and I knew that in order to service my existing clients and still build the business. I'm not enough I can't do it. And so, you know, the first couple hires were tough because you're like, how can I afford 50 or $100,000 a year. But I soon realized that as soon as I hired them, my income also went up. That they were providing a much needed service and allowing me to do what I'm better at, which was growing the business. And so, so I kind of got on that juice early in a good way because I see in my business, great financial planners, but really poor business runners they're, they're good with money and good with, you know, maybe 50 clients. But it'll always only be 50 because they, they reluctantly will not hire around them to support their business to grow. And so, again, I really like watching the advisors grow. I like helping other people. And there's a lot to this business that quite frankly I don't like. And that was another thing that I learned is, you know, we're good at certain skills as people. And you probably have some great skills that I'm pretty terrible at and vice versa. But to hire around you to bring in the people around you that love doing those things that you do not like to do, which for me is paperwork. So I have some rock stars at paperwork and they really helped me with that and, you know, without them. This business could not run it to level it does. So, so that's strategically how I look at those things is today. Where do you, where do you as a person. What, what, what, where does your heart thrive, what do you love to do, whether it's Excel, you know, working with people we got both of those things here so let's help you do that. You'll probably be a better employee to me. We'll probably both make more money as a result. And, and so I would say early on those first couple hires were the hardest. And I think hiring, you know, when you're a growing company. You know, from the roots up. You know, those first few hires you're like, you're thinking to yourself, I didn't, you know, I'm paying them more money than I made in my first year here. So you're, you're having conversations with yourself like that. But, but really in order for you to grow, you need people just as or more talented than you to surround yourself with. And so, so the people I have here doing paperwork are way better at it than me. I have people here that are smarter at financial planning than what I am. But together to collaborate together, we can deliver something together way better than what I can by myself. Okay. So that first hire boy I could see where that would be kind of difficult you're paying them more than you made the first year and wow how you're going to pay for them. But it sounds like you became more confident that as you added more people, you know, you could you could add the growth and you saw that, you know, more linear growth, you know, as you added people. Is that a fair assessment of kind of how you evolved in overtime? Yep. So that was, it was definitely a key indicator for me that we saw our sales really rise and continue to rise as we had the staff to service them and other advisors to help bring them on as well. Okay. Okay, make sense. So I know you said to me before you don't necessarily like the word CEO, even though you could probably put CEO title on you, you're the president and founder I think of Belmont capital. So talk about if you would maybe your leadership style. Have you thought about that at all? You know, I'm, I don't like a lot of confrontation. I definitely do not micromanage. You know, we bring people in and we give them the guidance. Today I have a couple managers and operations manager and a business manager. And I let them do some of that managing for me, because I realized that's not probably my strongest suit. But I really, I really want people to thrive in their own environment. I don't want, you know, while we do have to follow certain protocols to get things done. I really want to give people the freedom to operate within their own space, have their own ideas because I truly think if they're left alone, and we have the same mission and goal, they can probably come up with ways better than me. And, and so I want to encourage that type of environment where people can have the autonomy to, you know, as long as their job gets done. You know, if you can find a better way to do it, that would be great. If not, this is the way it worked for me. Here's that path. And if you can make it better or shorter, have a better client experience, then that would be great. And so, so those are things that were always consistently working on. But I'm definitely not a micromanager, hire people for the job. And one of my planners, she told me she goes, it's probably, she worked for me for probably six months and she goes, you've given me way more latitude than I ever dreamed. And she was thanking me because she could then explore and learn what she needed and she's one of our best planners. But in no way did I don't want to, I did not want to restrict her she had a special talent of her own that she brought to the table. And so I thought she was very intelligent when we hired her turns out she is and was she's still with us today. And so, you know, if I would have tried to carve out a hole for her and say you have to do this or just do these plans that she would have probably left me. And my clients today would not be benefiting from her experience and knowledge. So, you know, I think it's those core values it's like when you go to church, you don't have to convince people in the choir to believe in God they're already there. Right. And so, so we want to bring in people that have those same core values and beliefs. And from there if you know your core values are there, and we're aligned, then we can really do some great damage as teammates and planners and business owners. Okay. Okay. Do you get together for something fun with the group, the entire, you know, all the offices, once a year, twice a year, or how do you, how do you do that to continue to build, I guess, camaraderie with everybody. We, we do not do that enough. I have told the team that if we hit certain goals that I would take them somewhere exotic, whether that's tropical island or somewhere we don't, I'm not sure yet so. But in the meantime, we're doing one of our first Al teams. I don't even know the name of it. Someplace in Charlotte so we can go as a team it's apparently they have a lot of different things to do but I let the team choose some choices they brought me three or four different choices I let them vote on it and they picked this one so, so we're doing that now we need to do more of that for sure. Okay, okay, one of the struggles of running a team is you're so diverse, you know you have young people older people, people that can go white water rafting and people that, you know, have trouble walking up and downstairs. So, and they're all on your team so trying to balance that out sometimes it's tough. Yeah, right. And not everybody's going to want to go white while rafting right so how do you appeal to everyone I understand okay make sense. Okay, so a couple more questions for you here now you've talked a little bit as we're going through this kind of things that you've learned but maybe just consolidated for everybody what have you learned about yourself over the last 15 years since you started the goal. You can do way more than you thought. Okay. You can overcome obstacles that you did not ever expect would be there. The ability to or the stubbornness to not quit is probably my strongest point. Okay, but through that if you can continue on, no matter how hard those some of those days are. They see the vision of what can be, I think you can be rewarded for that tenacity. Okay, okay, much harder than you ever would a picture than growing this business I take it huh. Yeah, it's, you know, when. When you are the, you know, sometimes I jokingly say well I'm the chief bottle washer and janitor here because, you know, nobody else does it that's who it's left to. And obviously we have people that we hire for those things but if they don't show up, it's still on you. If employees leave it's on you, if payroll is short, that's it falls back on you. And so, you know, those are, I think cash flow is one of the toughest things a business owner faces, you know, balancing out cash flow with growth plans and paying yourself all of that and paying your taxes. You know, those one of the first lessons I learned is, geez, we have to pay taxes too. So all of that are, you know, things I've learned along the way in this journey but it's a journey and I don't feel like I've arrived at any magical destination we've just worked super hard we got some great people around us and we're constantly trying to keep the wheels on this thing. There you go. Yeah, what was it that Harry Truman said the buck stops here, I would say that that probably fits with what you're talking about right because it does stop with you when it comes to the people. Yeah, it does. No doubt. Okay, last questions here. So thinking about the full discussion that we've had, what advice would you have for any new executive or new CEO or president or maybe, you know, the founder of a new capital advisory firm. I love your people, you know, get to know your employees and really love them, understand them. Really seek to understand their talents. And then, you know, make sure you are communicating your mission and the objective of your firm, you know, those, those ones that you serve and how you serve them and what you do for them. Make sure the whole team is bought into that and that, you know, that's, that's, that's your mantra that's how you move forward. And, you know, the name of my radio show is retirement for living we really want to make that. We really want to help people have a retirement that they don't have to worry about that they know that the income is going to be there. No matter what economy, no matter what president, no matter what geopolitical event is going on in the world because we're, we're always going to be surprised at all of those things. And so, so expect the surprises, but, but you know, as a CEO and as a business owner, you're going to spend a lot, a lot of time with these people. So, we just as well have some fun with them get to know them and treat them with respect and dignity. Good advice. Retire meant for living and living the life that those retirees want I assume is kind of part of that same equation is that right. Yeah. Okay, that's, that's good. Did you come up with that retire meant for living because that's an interesting kind of play on words. I paid a marketing firm to bring that to me. Okay. All right, that's a good one. Give me three choices and when I saw that one, that's the, that's the one right there. That's it. So. It's very fitting for us. Yeah, no doubt. Okay. Well, good. Joe, Pat, I wanted to thank you for being on the show. A very good discussion. A lot of interesting information that I think a lot of the listeners will be be interested in taking in. So I appreciate your time. Thank you for joining. Thank you, Jeff. Thanks for having me.
