Tuhin has build a very successful AI SEO business with offices in UAE, India and Australia. The company is growing rapidly and he sees the workforce doubling over the coming 12-18 months as he is part of the AI revolution.
Connect with Tuhin on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tuhin-banik/
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From
The Top Floor Team
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Welcome to the Top Shelf Podcast. I'm John Nolan from VISTAD UAE. Today, we're joined by two in Bannick, the founder of a company by the name of that where LLP, a company that formed in 2014. Welcome to him. Yes. Thank you, John. Thank you so much for having me on this show, and I'm really great to be a part of it. Super. Well, look, I'd like to start too and by just asking you if you could tell me a little bit about your company and about your role as the founder of the company, what's your current role? Yes. So first of all, I represent a company known as that word. So I'm the CEO of that word. So the purpose of that word is to revolutionize artificial intelligence driven digital transformation or digital marketing. So the reason is quite simple. I'll just give a short one minute of interaction. The thing was that the digital industry was going nowhere. Everything was just, like you can say, a bread and butter kind of strategy or everything was quite reactive. Now, almost eight years back, I felt that this is the need of need of the hour where businesses should utilize some of the most cutting edge technologies like AI, information retrieval, machine learning, data science to get the most out of it. And if that can be blended into the field of digital marketing, then this can break all corners and this can really make a campaign more proactive. So so having said that, this is where I have started that word. So the that word from is simple. The happy and the hint is my name, happy is my nickname. People also tell me happy and my surrounding and where I have just derived from software and hardware because my intention was that if you want to prevail in the field of digital, that just like you need a software and a hardware, so you'd be needing a data as well. So this is how that word has been like brought into the existence now, coming down to the role of me. So it's quite simple. I always take care of the research and development and you can say like finding advanced technologies every single week. And my main role is to make sure that we are on top of the technology. We find and test several algorithms of what will be rightly fit for the market or not. The reason is very simple. The reason is like Google changes more than 6000 algorithms in a single year, which is near about eight algorithms in a single day. Now that is quite a huge no matter if you are a starter or if you are a part of a Forbes 200 or even in 500 companies. But the thing is that in battling through 18 algorithms in a single day is is either thing of like it's quite challenging for every business. It's not to eradicate that to make sure that every company is well navigate through this changing environment or this changing algorithm. There should be a proper policy and people should know what the algorithm changes are. So having said that, my role is that me along with my team of data science people because I do have my master's on AI. So what we do is like we test and we develop several strategies and several innovative outcomes and algorithms by which we can pass to our team leaders and all and which then they incorporate to our campus and the products and so on. So this is pretty much our the previous background about me and that or what my role is. Amazing and so tell me where does where do you operate the business out of which which countries it seems like it's a global your clients may be global where's your workforce based? So yeah, so we have our physical offices in India, in Melbourne and in Dubai. So we have three offices from India from the eastern side of India on Kolkata. So the name of the place is Kolkata. So we have three offices down there where we have an approximate team size of somewhere between 145 to 155 team members in-house. Then we have another office in Dubai which is in all person. So in Dubai, we have a team strength of around 15 members who takes care of all the branding marketing and the PR activities. By then India, we have all the operations because the ID team of India is great. And in Melbourne, we have around a team of eight to nine people whose job is to just keep like deep dive and do all the hardcore research and they work closely with me because we take care of all the heavy duty and like to make sure that all the resources are in proper order. Apart from this four physical offices, like this five physical offices, we have few virtual like it's not virtual, but we have an entire team of people from Philippines, from London. We don't have physical existence there, but there is an wide range of people who works full time for us to take care of our other side of the things such as for analytics, it's the UK for the translational things because we work with a lot of multilingual companies so it's on the Philippines. And even apart from that, we also work with a lot of affiliates because like we are one of the largest like SEO service providers for various niches like like healthcare or B2P B2C. So so there is a time like we've felt the need of the hour for conversion pre optimization. So from nurturing the conversion, we also have a small virtual team involved as well. So that take care of all the conversion to optimize the website based on a lot of the UX, EUI, lead magnets and so on. So this is our team size with a combined team strength of near about 175 to 80 people. In-house, now if I consider the virtual, this is near about 200, but we are planning to expand more. We are planning to open one more office in Dubai later down this year and one in Poland. So like and we are trying to make sure that our employees are just near about 275 by later end of this year until November. So that's our futuristic goal and yeah, that's it. So I'm fascinated to to get your view on how to manage such a global workforce because that must be a challenge. I'm sure you've got plenty of tools and I'd love to know how, you know, as the leader of the business, how do you manage that global workforce spread over so many different territories? Yeah, so for simplifying this thing, so I'll just divide into five work areas that defines the entire operation. So the first one is sales. So for sales, we are using CRM such as Salesforce. Now we have custom integration of Salesforce out there. So we're all of our sales teams. So they are well balanced and well in line with the Salesforce. So Salesforce really gives us a good exposure in how we are trying to tackle the leads, the proper segregation between the world code and whom to nurture, whom to follow up and so on. So Salesforce is pretty much for the sales team and that's quite automated. Apart from that, the second thing goes down to the marketing and all so for the marketing. So we do use a lot, a lot amount of like in SaaS applications like semesters, like age, like bus, and the list is on like if I go and tell so we use more than 50 plus softwares on the go and we use for doing a several thing for brand listening, for social listening, for optimizing our reputation to find opportunities for, you can say for an outreach. Now there are several other things, so for the for support branding and marketing, we use all such tools to find an opportunity within the marketplaces and the list is huge. But some commonly is that we use our like spifu or sembrash, et cetera, and so on. The third thing that you nominator is on the accounting thing. So accounting we do have a full clarity and automation from auto. So auto we use we have a custom developer of auto. So our accounting is pretty much automated and we we support more than 40 plus integrations. It doesn't matter if it is a PayPal or if it is a virtual account, if it is a physical bank account, we even have our banks in more than I think more than 16 plus countries and those are physical bank including Europe. We're covering the entire Europe, the the US market, the Canada market, the Australian market, the Singapore market and the entire Gulf and the Middle East. So we have more than 16 plus physical bank accounts and apart from that there are several other ways. So that's quite automated as well. The fourth point is the operation, the entire operation of how the work is being done and how the work is not being done. Now in here we have a proper balance of both human driven and automation. So automation we only use for taking an automated feedback from the client, nourishing the feedback, getting, making sure that all the tick boxes are done, making sure that all the task lists are being listed automatically and like like we have built in web books by which we can actually like visualize in a graph format that words being done on the campaign, how the progress are being made, which client has the highest score or if there is a decline and we follow a strategy known as start, stop, keep. So every week we plan that which new strategy should be started, we plan which new which strategy should be started because they are not working and which strategies we should keep. So start, stop, keep is a very great strategy that we visualize over here and just like I said like it's quite both human driven and machine driven as well because we use a lot of team leaders, project managers, even assistant team leaders and risk analyzers because like we have a separate department whose name is Risk Analyst. Now their job is to only to find the pain points and to find the faults from the campaign just so that we are one step more proactive and we leave no chance of complaint from the client. And last but not the least for the innovation areas and also we do put ourselves in a even says a to-do list as a task case. So we use Basecamp for that. So we use it can can bandboard in Basecamp where we list out all of our ideas into one and then from the idea to the work in progress and then like like this gradual wise then you take it from there. So this is what you normally do and like now we do have a proper SOP for all of these five areas and all of the workloads and SOPs are well followed and then and then that's it like that is like that's how we just roll and I just take it from there. Okay. Yeah yeah like as I said it is fascinating and clearly you've got a very robust technology set of technologies that's underpinning the business that's allowing you to scale so quickly right so so that's really that's really I guess it sounds like that's a strength of the business. Now what I'd also like to know too in is one of the biggest challenges you've overcome. I mean you've been on a 10 year journey you're in a fast pace you're in a fast paced industry and I assume you know there's been a lot of ups and downs on the way and you have to really stay on top of the game. So what are the biggest challenges that you have faced on your journey to date? So yeah so this is quite an interesting question because when I started my journey there was a huge challenge of even proving that the concept of my real exists. Now now I shared a short story for that so the thing was when I started my journey long back now I was in UK I was in US I was physically working for some companies whom I'll not name here but those were some of the most profitable companies on the planet in terms of providing the marketing activities now. What we have seen is that what personally I've seen was that like campaigns were spending more than a million dollars a year on a contract and the things that were delivered to them were nothing they were just like they were not worth the value in fact not even worth I would say that were even not worth even 500 bucks now but the thing but the point was that the industry that time had nothing. AI people did not knew what AI was almost eight years back. AI did not prevail much in fact for if I consider a pack middle east or the Asian countries people does not even add a clue of what AI was. In fact if I go to the tier one countries like the US you can the Canadian region even though they knew what AI was but people used to think that marketing is a different thing. AI is a way different thing and there is no way that the plant is possible. So that is where when I left those companies and I came down to India later to Dubai because I reside in both Dubai and India simultaneously. So there I formulated a concept for is that AI can be used to revolutionize the marketing concept and there is something known as digital transformation where end to end I can provide a journey to make sure that your business not only sustains online but that years the good amount of ROI so for that particular thing we tested a lot of strategies from patians.google.com so there were some thousands and thousands of patrons that we have read and we tried to figure it out that what that was. I'm since I carried my background in AI so it was I would not say it was easy but yes I did got a lot of help from my professors and friends but still I was quite comfortable with the languages because I personally know more than seven plus coding languages out there so so then slowly I cared some concept and I went out in the marketplace on freelancing platforms on events on networking sites and I used to pitch people that hey why not do SEO why not do digital marketing this way this is something unique and just can really give you an age over your competition so the usual challenge was people was like this technology does not even exist then why should we come to you you you're not a brand we don't know you know who you are you don't have any existence you are just a kid you are just a boy you you you don't even we don't even think that you are in your early 20s you don't even have a market experience so we're like we're sorry we cannot give you the chance so that was quite a challenging period for me and the way by which we overcome and I overcome why it's quite emotional because what I did was I since I was jobless that time so I spent my lifestyle in the most nominal way I spent my savings in doing campaigns for free of cost I pitched out to client that hey give me one month of time give me two months of time I work for free if you get some results then only pay me then you you do not interview me so from there I started I actually remember I got my first client as a heavy glare the client name is Grant Lambert from US from Apple City from Birdsville and my second client was Mike Bradley from safe proof now safe proof changed my life because safe proof.org is a governmental campaign their purpose is to stop pinch drinking from the entire United States so I work for to this campaign work for to this to campaign for free for almost two two and a half months and three months consecutively and then I proved them the initial KPI where their figure started to rise their business started to overcome a lot of their internal herders and they were more if I save the figure every year where 10x more profitable and safe proof agendas to reach out to wide widespread masses and it got successful and from there I earned some revenue and I'm still bootstrapped so I never believed in raising investment because during this during my starting of of my phase I reached out to more than 400 investor every single one of them rejected that AI does not exist or AI cannot be blended and this technology does not even exist so from there I thought that I would never is investing in my lifetime so what I did was I simple I was resourceful from those two campaign invested and built a website where I made a lot of storytelling or gave some real life case studies example so I reached out to a few more clients and from there so just like a planetary it's got spread and today we have served more than 8,000 campaigns successfully and at real time we are serving near about 700 campaigns of real time and those are intact with a like a retention ratio of near about 90% actually it was 99% but 9% we lost because we do not do PPC we are against our paper click so our people if people comes to us and say that hey we need PPC so honestly we do not entertain them because there's no point like if you're running a paid campaign it's like you are renting yourself out on the internet and if you're following the organic growth it's like you are investing on some assets for the future so that's what we believe and that that that has always been our like more as operand you can say since the day we started so so this was pretty much of the very big challenge I must send and obviously there are a lot of small-stone challenges also like when the moment when you grow when you started to grow various tech companies or afters like hey this technology is wrong these and that so that also got falsified because we have filed our opportunity and we do have a patent for eight plus algorithms ourselves and later and our life changed back in 2019 or 20 I believe it was in 2020 when google officially claimed that they follows semantic engineering for ranking this is where people thought like no SCR should be now into the next level this is where we started to gain more momentum more you can say more press releases more self-awareness lots of people around the world is to invite us for a keynote session which is still though we visit more than 30 countries in a year for a keynote session and that's what we do and that's what we have been doing and still our vision is far off because the entire digital marketing industry is near about $450 billion as per 2024 with a CAGR of near about 12 percentage over the next 10 years so we just want to tap the market because the market is huge still there are no big players or leaders we just want to be that market leader in the near future we are up to a certain extent on few years but that's not our aim we just want to be the top and we want to be the best so that's what like that was what our aim is and that will be our aim for the next couple of years unless we just overcome that yeah well that means that leads to my next question which which you've alluded to there that you want to be the market leader so what I'd like to know is what does the market look like I mean who are who do you see as your potential competitors and you know what is the ultimate aspiration for that where and where do you see that where do you see your niche area of that market going I mean you know the AI marketing or digital AI marketing so I'm really interested if you could just you know who do you see the big players are and and where do you ultimately look to position yourself yes so so now here is like two side of the story so the first thing is for the service based industry some of my top competitors are like there are several competitors like meal bottle is one of my biggest competitors apart from that there are agencies like like it's not about it's not about competitors but it's mostly like the agencies who have been ripping off with the same old school strategy since years after years and years so even though not against that if you ask them directly if I feel them as a comparator I honestly feel no because they're just selling packages they're making packages they're selling packages which is fine I'm not here to sell package I'm here to make a revolution and I'm here to change the game so I'm on a different vision it's it's more like a good blue ocean strategy where like where I want to create my own monopoly in the market in the future place because AI based SEO if you even open charge if you didn't say suggest me some AI driven SEO agency out there so that would be on top if you open thing that would be on top if you go to anywhere that way would be on top and that is the monopoly I want to see myself so it's not about competition because I'm totally against off creating package and selling because I'm like I'm an ethical guy I for me SEO digital marketing is my passion this is not my business if I would have been done business then I could have sold packages for some couple of hundred thousand dollars but we always stick to our bottom roots and we always make sure that we help client overcome their sustainable growth and make sure that they are well in line with your return on investment but on the other side of the story for the survey for the softwares yes I do see Sembrash H does to be one of my immediate comparators not for that we have launched a software named as web tool wabtwl.co web tool is on the build phase we have not launched that yet on the market because we are testing that so web tool would be there come have not yet entered into that segment because that's the software driven services where you can just buy a subscription and just utilize all the best possible softwares out there but overall if you ask me about the aspiration so it's my it's a simple goal uh John to be honest like and I'm not here to do business and to compete in your my vision is that every business person on the planet should get the right service and that that is what it matters because I know the value and I know the pain of having a startup even even my company still still a startup I'm bootstrapped but who cares I'm on the startup phase so I'm not earning in multi-millions or in billion dollars yes I have a good revenue but that does not gives me a way to show off myself so my aim is that one million websites are being live every single day so which means that near about 300 million almost half a billion websites are being made live in a single year trust me if I pick one million a top-notch agencies in the planet they are not even enough to compete with the 300 billion campents out there my intention is like today you can launch a business uh John with some small amount of budget because I know struggle is struggling now you should not fall into some bad hands it should not be like you have gone to some agency and they're ripping you off with some old old school thing which will not even work or will give you the pure minimum ROI so for me I just want to change the stereo that I have to change how the things are working now for that to happen I'll tell you that even right now I am providing white labor services to more than 53 plus agencies in the entire planet so I'm delegating my everything I'm delegating my technologies I am sacrificing my brand logos and brand name because I want people to be happy because if you search on google uh that or tagline is the partner in your happiness so if you just open anywhere because we just want that you to be happy launching launching a business and you should be like your online inventory is like your home and I'm no one to destroy anyone's home so a home should be full of love prosperity and care and that is what we are here for so that would be my aspiration like every single people should do that if if someone does this thing like me I would I would even or like I would even appreciate that person more even even considering them to be my company because my aim is not work with so much land at the moment my aim is to make an impact on the society because there are these all points struggling moving through and I just want to resolve that that's all yeah that's brilliant I mean uh you know I think there's lots of studies saying that if you're just in business to make money you're in business you know you're not going to last friend yeah you have to have yes actually of course that's greater than commercial success the commercial success becomes because you are making a difference right yep yep so so so too and look uh if what I would like to do is pose a question which is say you've got somebody out there that you know knows nothing about AI driven marketing or AIS SEO services and they you know they've got their head in a space where they're looking at SEO services through a traditional model with a traditional agency how would you convince them of the benefits of what you're offering so it's quite simple now that is something what you normally do whenever we go to some keynote presentation and people comes to our exhibition stands or somewhere to just ask a similar question so so the thing is like we have hundreds and hundreds of case studies on whatever niche because we mostly cover 246 niches all around the world in fact to be honest we cover all the niche because anyone that has a website they need SEO for sure so what you do is like we always provide we always we always keep an end-to-end proof of concept and then case study so whenever someone comes at first at first we do not show off ourselves as an AI driven SEO or AI driven this and that so we first show them that scene this is a campaign that like this is a campaign this is this was uh this is what they were facing they were struggling this is what they require this is how we held them and this is the revenue that we have made them and now after that we told them that these are some of the technologies that are used for them now the list is huge if you are interested then we can take once the forward and again discuss what they call so that's how we take it like we it's not like we just stand and we just say okay this is the algorithm this algorithm will do this this algorithm do that now because i should every single person like people in front of me to be a layman in this particular field i treat them they have zero to no knowledge on this particular field so but the only knowledge every business owner should keep or which the keep is their beliefs in ROI every single person believes in return on investment every single person believes in key performance indicators and every single people believes in how much revenue and money they are making end of the day so that is the that is what we prove them first and then we justify that proof and the logic with our proof of concept and case studies which involves all sorts of AI or the strategies or this and that and that's how we just collectively and holistically make them uh like make them believe that this is the technology which we need and this will be the future so that's how we take it forward so you've hit on a very interesting point i mean uh a lot a lot of business a lot of decision makers you're dealing with they don't even understand SEO very much and now you're certainly bringing AI into the picture as well so yeah so i so i i understand that like you know it can be a huge gap and i guess part part of your journey customer journey is to educate them about yes absolutely and this is the reason uh john like uh why we have been investing a lot of money on traveling to more than 30 countries in a year with without team some of the team members and uh just educating if if you open my youtube channel you would find a plenty of videos plenty of uh lectures that i give i give lectures more than three four lectures every single month uh now i even stop recording videos because it it has been quite common for me but that's what i do like i i look to raise awareness uh for me marketing see marketing is a different thing but for me i'm just trying to increase the awareness because yes you're right like SEO is a different AI is different both the things have their own uh cons but i'm trying to combine and make it some revolutionary product so people do have a lot of questions out there and just like i said that i always play in solving the trigger or the pain point now this is one of the golden rule of marketing john if you focus and if you just uh solve someone's pain point it doesn't matter if you're using AI or if you're using uh some rocket science people will believe in you just like Elon Musk like uh his vision was to just use reusable rocket so use some technology no one cared even i don't know like i never had the curiosity like how a rocket can just jump and just come back but what do we believe that okay the rockets are being reutilized materials and carbon composition is being reduced from the planet earth and that's what this guy is doing and and that's great so that is what we are doing we are trying to provide justified amount of growth sustainable growth and important KPI's keep performing indicators for any clients whom we work for half of the client don't care about our technology but they care about our brand that this is the brand whom we can trust even i don't know if i'm allowed to share a screenshot or screen my or your not but if i can then uh while speaking with you i have just got a finger from my client one of my recent client from Australia and she just said that uh this was my greatest decision to hire you guys last month and she's a new client she just approached it with just now while i was speaking with you so so this is so this was a thing john like we believe in making sure that you are happy growing your business don't care what we are doing what we are doing is our sales side of view is our unique selling proposition is our uniqueness yes you are if you are interested we're more than happy to educate you on that but if you are not we're just here to help you out and make you like shine out of the crowd and make sure that you break all the competition and you introduce yourself as we are the one on that particular condition that is what we believe in so that is how even we work for the champion no brilliant i get it i mean look at the end of the day uh if you're giving the results and seo yeah if everyone's seo is improving and you're providing a greater service maybe some of the previous agencies or some of those writers they've had in that that that that is the evidence right but also i guess some people a lot of them want to be taken on a journey of education as well to understand maybe how it works okay so uh so you're obviously a busy guy i mean you're running a big a big empire um you say you're only a startup and i understand i i can see you sort of mentality in that space but you do have a big footprint around the world so you know busy guy what are you doing your spare time to switch off um in my spare time mostly for asking uh i don't have a spare time because i just lay four to five hours a day only so i always so either i'm on any of my offices or either i'm just traveling all around the globe i do have residency in more than three four countries i believe uh so the thing is i'm like the first thing is i'm always working whether it is Saturdays or Sundays doesn't matter i'm always working i just uh i believe uh this is the right time for me to work because down the line when i'll be quite older i will not be having this energy so so let me utilize the energy now i can relax a later part of the time but still yes but still when i do have some time i spend some time with my daughter so my daughter is just three and a half years old so i do spend time with her or i just go out on some short trips with my uh family my wife my daughter my family is my small wife daughter that's it and i do consider my office people also to my family so if you see my gmb google my business or any anything about us so you'd find that every year we even do more than three to four trips foreign trips uh without team members obviously the best performer so it's not like i'll just take 170 of them nobody is we do take we do take at a time we do take more than 50 plus people at a single short so so yes i do spend my time with my family whom i consider my wife and my daughter and also my family people uh and i feel really great to be in a good atmosphere and and apart from that sometimes maybe i work some movies i'm a i'm a heavy good uh fan of thriller movie so trailer movies whenever some movies comes out i'm too too busy or lazy to go out on movie hall but uh Netflix doesn't that so yes i do watch those but mostly i'm trying to you know about something do my own studies like trying to come up with something new or travel so so if i get maybe one or two days off then i'm always off to somewhere obviously along with my family or my my family or my office colleagues or something like that but this is normally what i normally do just just try to keep myself busy or do some small leisure trips around the world so that i'm a bit relaxed and yeah right now also have you got a favorite do you have a favorite book or influencer that you follow or a podcast that you would recommend um i do follow a lot of influencer or listen to a podcast or book and so so far book uh like one of my favorite book i would say is uh tan narrowly which is like uh predictable irrational or irrational like predictable irrational is and apart from that i too read a lot of marketing books like rich dad poor dad so so i'm a like like you can say like i'm a love of both philosophy philosophy psychology so psychology based marketing philosophical books which i sometimes read yes but but but rather than book i'm not really a book guy but rather than book guess i do watch a lot of videos uh short videos or long videos videos yes every time so podcast yes name if i if you if you ask me there is plenty so there are plenty so beer biceps is one of my favorite podcaster his name is beer biceps so beer beer bicep b w r beer biceps so beer biceps is uh one of my favorite podcast that i do admire or listen but that's not the end um like you can tell me that i i mostly look out to every single informative videos that i ever come across utu or whatever it doesn't matter so uh wherever i find some information like i love to get like gain knowledge regarding technology or cosmos i'm very much into cosmos i love sky i love nasa also so so cosmos science this and that so yes so i i do love all of them so yeah pretty much so that that is something that i do okay very good uh and two and final question is what advice would you give to an 18 year old or a young entrepreneur that's starting out on on his or her journey what advice would you give give to them so say my best and the most ethical advice that i give i think that would be just one place that if if you see if you see a small pain point uh that is prevailing in a society or in a marketplace or in a business whatsoever if you are able to solve that pain point you'd be the next successful entrepreneur you would be like like today if you see any of the famous entrepreneurs out there they solved one or the other thing they solved any of the other things so so the thing is that if someone is an 18 year old and if if they're very much of an explorative nature so the thing is quite simple so so the thing is like um if they feel that okay there is certain pain point which is existing or which is prevailing on the market and this is a this is like this is um something that needs to change so if you believe that there is something that needs to change then you should be that change so that is where now the moment you can identify what the pain points are what you uh what you need that change to be and how you can overcome that you have become 50% entrepreneurs here so and then it's just the execution working hard networking collections idea ideation stage if someone goes for an investment round that's good as well but yeah so that as well so but the thing is that you need to first make a change to be the change so that is what what i have to say yeah yeah look that's great advice and i don't know like if you look at the the biggest success stories what the googles of the world the amazon's of the world have done is they have solved a pain point or they provided a server superior to anybody else that billions of people needed and literally billions of people are using their products right yeah absolutely that's true yeah because unless you're solving some pain point then you cannot really do like you cannot really be someone you just need to just like even or really be a good entrepreneur and it's not even an entrepreneur but if you if you are on this planet then make a change and then go so that's what i believe or whether that that is a small change or it doesn't matter but be the change so that is what i always say excellent to me look it's been a pleasure to chat with you today you got your relations the journey you've had answered the success you've had yes it was even now pleasure like even if you ask me i really feel great for this entire portal because it's it's more like i am on the good flow and i did have a great positive vibe with you so you have been a great host i i must appreciate that and yeah like even even i would appreciate your time also for taking me on the chat show because i like i felt great because there there are certain things that the industry needs to know and the industry needs to change also to a certain way so i think this would be a useful discussion on the podcast no i appreciate the kind words and and look it looked to me like you are still in the early stages of what's going to be a very successful journey so good luck with good luck with the future thanks thank you for the chat today yeah thank you thanks John by thank you
