Hello, I'm Honor Baloo, welcome to the From the Top podcast series where we have interesting conversations with interesting business leaders. Today we're talking with Jeff Engel, who is CEO of a holding company called Capital E, which is an investment business, also Archangel a consulting business, he's focused on national security and emerging technologies, and he's also executive chairman for government internal defense at Blue Boyant. Thank you, Jeff, for making time to be here today. Oh, thank you for having Honor. It's nice to see you. So tell us more about what you do. So I've spent my entire career focused on what I've received to be the greatest threats to national security. It started with weapons of mass instruction and then got into counterterrorism and then global infectious disease and eventually cyber security. So for the last seven years or so I was building conquest cyber, started it in 2018 after a stint with the parent company and that was focused on building cyber resiliency for the sectors that are critical to our way of life. So we supported every aspect of governments at every level and critical infrastructure like power and water treatments and emergency services. In the end of last year, I was able to sell that business to Blue Boyant where I've stayed on as executive chairman for the government side of that business globally. And now the other businesses that you mentioned, taking what is a little bit more free time than I had building something from scratch to give some attention to the next greatest threats to national security, which is really artificial intelligence and data integrity. Really you can't trust anything that you hear anymore and there's technology that's advancing so rapidly cyber security is still extremely relevant. But now there's kind of the next horizon. So that's where I'm spending my days. So that's all very fascinating. It must be very exhilarating to be on the front end of all these things that are going on and being able to make a difference with that. Yes, it's what I've discovered keeps me motivated and there's a lot of things that people get passionate about. But I found that short distractions are no comparison for something that you think about every day and that's the Japanese terms, the key guy, the next, what I'm good at, what the people are willing to pay for, what is really needed and keeping the focus on national security and the country that gave me the opportunity to go from where I was to where I am is fueled the passion over time. Yeah, it's fantastic and like you said, it is so inspiring or I guess encouraging to be able to connect your passion with what you do on a daily basis because we spend so much time at work. It's important if you can do that, it can help you keep motivated, stay motivated, right? Yeah, I think that may be especially true for your audience. People who have to as Elon Musk put it, you know, chew on glass and stare into the abyss of building businesses. If you don't have something that's bigger, a purpose bigger than yourself, yeah, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to take on something that's challenging, there's immense amount of risks, you know, having to pay yourself and be responsible for the livelihood of other families. It's incredibly difficult generally, but I can't imagine even attempting or having any desire to sit in the chair, you know, as CEOs refer it, if it wasn't for having that bigger reason. I couldn't agree more, it definitely helps to kind of keep your eye also on what your ultimate goal is, you know, what you want to achieve. So now that your things have been, have changed a bit for you recently, selling your business. What do you want to, what's your focus over the next five years? So it's continuing to carry out the mission that that started now with a lot of additional resources. I bootstrapped that and essentially didn't take any outside investment. So now being an organization that's much better funded, going to have an exponential impact, so keeping the eye on that and then trying to stay ahead of the curve on the next greatest threats and, you know, solving the problems at scale, building teams, you know, the thing I've really found that I have fashioned for beyond the purpose of, you know, securing our sectors critical to our way of life is building the next generation of talent. I really, you know, enjoy working myself out of jobs and finding people that have the passion and the grit and the skill that can be developed to take on bigger and bigger challenges. So that's how I'm going to be spending my time is just, you know, coaching, teaching, mentoring, people who have the similar purpose, you know, especially ones that, you know, they have a little bit more belief than they have the ability to execute is helping to bridge that gap between, you know, what they what they want to do and what is possible for them. It's been something that they give me, yeah, satisfaction, you know, I love how you phrase that that they've, you know, they have more to learn about how to do it. They know what they want to do. They just need to learn a little bit more about how to do it. And so that's a nice contribution that you're making by committing to developing people. Not everybody wants to do that. A lot of people want to find somebody that already can do it and then just plug them in. But the true, I think the true value is when you can take somebody that's not there yet and get them to the next level for you and for them. Yeah, I, you know, a lot of people question how you define success, you know, my definition of success is really going to be determined what people say about when I'm gone, not necessarily what they say about me while I'm here. And it's those people that, you know, you know, at least in my experience that told me, you know, that they believed in me and when I didn't believe in myself, that, you know, that I will be saying things about. So that's kind of what I have aspired to is, you know, taking the people that others would look over knowing that I was one of those people and it was a handful of people throughout my career who were willing to take a shot on me, that if I can get that back to a handful of people, then yeah, I feel like it was all worth it along the way. Thank you for sharing that. I'm always curious about how people define success because there's no two that are the same, really, right? There's some that are similar, but everybody is driven to achieve things for different reasons. So fascinating. Yeah. So when you think about success, who, who comes to mind for you if someone that you would say has found success? I have almost everyone that I can think of that told me that, you know, to ignore what other people might say or that, you know, that there was a, that they believed in me. All of those people I define as successful. They're in a point in their, their development that they can have an impact on others and their point of their confidence that they're not threatened by, you know, bringing up the next generation of leaders. And that, to me, is success, you know, and I have, I have friends and mentors throughout my career that I can look back to that, you know, they range from being on, you know, public company boards and having, you know, had an illustrative careers as, you know, public company CEOs to people who spend their time in the military or government service, you know, their bank accounts say very different stories, but to me that, you know, they're, they're at equivalent levels, you know, in terms of, you know, were they successful? You know, could they, could they sit down and, you know, at the end of their life and say that they, they left everything on the field and, you know, I think both of those are true, whether they are, you know, created generational wealth for their children or they, they had, you know, people and, and their children that they inspired to, to continue to do more than, you know, that they took away from, from our society. It's definitely not all about money. Anytime you ask people about, about success for sure. So thank you for sharing that. So what would you say, Jeff, I'm curious, you've done some fantastic things. What would you say have been your biggest learnings in life and in business? I would say the biggest thing I've learned is that, that no one's advice is really worth the, you know, the air it's printed on. It's informative, but it's more informative about, you know, where they are in their perspective than what you're able to do. It's, you know, it's people that say, you know, they can solve a particular problem or that just say, I believe that you can go find a way, which isn't really advice that has had far more impact than people who, you know, were overly free with their opinions about how to do something. You know, there's always the, in communication, there's the sender, the receiver and the feedback and all three of those, I would say, are equally important. But I've learned that, you know, sometimes you just have to, you have to believe more than anybody else possibly could in order to accomplish, you know, really hard or impossible, or seemingly impossible things in spite of all the evidence in front of you. I think that's really true, you know, entrepreneurs and people who, you know, and that I think are successful in the special operations community. Along the way told them all the reasons why they couldn't do it and they did it anyway. So that's rather the biggest thing, I would never discourage anybody from anything, you know, other than my children sticking, you know, metal objects and light sockets. Yeah, I think that most experiences in life are beneficial, even if they're painful. Because that builds upon a foundation of knowledge that you can apply elsewhere. So that's the biggest thing I've learned, you know, in business and life. You know, not only other thing that I think is probably critically important is that how other people have done it is more likely to fly you into a mountain than it is to make you successful. I use a lot of, you know, flying analogy, you know, I learned, you know, how to do a few years ago and it was really important because it's the closest thing I've found to running a business and flying airplane. You have to kind of know how to do everything to be a licensed pilot. You have to, you know, know how to be a mechanic, you have to be an expert in fuel, you have to be a weather person, you have to be a navigator, almost the least important component of it is how to take off and land the airplane. Very similar to being a CEO, you know, the planning things out and being able to adapt when the plan doesn't work is, you know, like every, every air flight doesn't go exactly to plan and every business doesn't go exactly to plan, but the process of planning and understanding all aspects of it, determine whether you're a success or failure. Other people have, you know, give me advice along the way that you should just let the experts handle that. If you have a legal issue, talk to all players, if you have financial issues, talk to your CFO. And what I found is nobody's really 100% of the time, that good or has all of the context. So if you don't have at least a decent understanding of those different corporate functions, then you're likely to fly the airplane into the mountain. And yeah, that's why I'm kind of been a lifelong learner and encourage everyone else to, like, you know, ask for advice, but no 60 to 70% of the answer is at all possible. So you can call BS because not all lawyers are the same, not all financial experts are actually experts. And if you don't have enough baseline understanding, you're, you're likely to end up having a disaster on your hands. Yeah, I think, you know, I've always believed that for CEOs and business owners, you can ask for advice, you can get input. I think it's important to seek input, but you still get to make the decision. Don't let other people make the decision for you, right? Don't like you're saying, don't believe that they know better and just go with it because of whatever they've achieved or whatever their background is. Just take it, take it all in and mull it over and then make your own decision. Yeah. And it's, it's a risk management decision, right? Everything in business is risk management. And successful entrepreneurs are typically less risk averse than others. I mean, it takes, you have to have a high risk dollars just to do it. Yeah. It is important, but at the same time, you know, the trade offs that have to be made, nobody else on the field is going to understand. Absolutely, until you're, until you're in the game, you don't really know how it's going to work, right? So what advice do you have for a 22 year old? We've talked a lot about this, but anything specific or a 22 year old just starting their entrepreneurial journey? I think, you know, something that I didn't do with that I might have done differently. Because when I was 22, I was in special operations. Yeah, I, yeah, I, at that point, you know, been in the Army for five years and, you know, I was, I basically was in my dream job and, and it's, it actually ended up being the experiences I had there and the network that I built that, that helped me be successful, you know, 18 years later. So to a 22 year old, anyone, it's, learn everything you can and build a strong network as you can. And along the way, you know, keep your integrity. So if you can't, if you don't know how to do something, you can't, you know, you, you aren't capable of doing it or you don't know 100% that you're going to be able to follow through then don't make commitments. Because people remember really two types of people more than anything in those who were there for them when they needed it and those who let them down when they needed it. So, you know, keep your integrity and build your network and then always be learning those, those things are far more valuable than, you know, than any other specific degree path or career path because people want to help, you know, they, they ultimately want to help if they, and if you demonstrate that you can be, that you can be trusted and that you give more than you receive, then, you know, I think it's nearly impossible to be, to be anything but successful. That's great advice. So anything else you'd like to share about what you're doing now and how that you've sold your business, your, your life is different, how are you focusing your time? So now it's, it's really just transitioning to helping and, and picking the next big problem to solve. So, young investing in businesses that are, you know, doing things that impacts emerging technologies and national security, continue to, you know, be open to sitting on boards and, you know, advising, advising others. And yeah, I think like you, I'm in the, you know, I'm in the national region where we've got just a incredible growing, you know, technology scene that, you know, with the introduction of Oracle and their, their global headquarters, you know, it's going to impact, you know, the establishments have probably hundreds of additional businesses. So now I'm always open to helping because those, you know, other people have helped me. And I think building the talent here and trying to keep this area, the, the integrity of what we had in Tennessee while we can, you know, become a hotspot for emerging tech is something that's not all fly some of my time to. But any, anything that comes down the fight, you know, any, anything that I think could fundamentally upset the balance of our way of life and, and the drive that we have to be better and do better as a, you know, as a city, as a, you know, state, as a country, you know, I'll be open to jumping in that particular fight. All right, well, very fascinating, it's amazing what you've achieved. I appreciate you being with us today. Any final words? No, I, you know, I hope people are paying attention and they continue to invest in themselves and, you know, seek, seek out the advice assistance and, and the network is, it takes all of us to, to do this. Nobody's going to be able to do it alone. Yeah, if you, if you wait to figure that out, then it's going to be a lot harder along the way. Well said, I think that, you know, you've several great pieces of advice that you, that you've shared, you know, don't do it alone and, but don't be afraid to, to do something you haven't done before as well, right? So, and a lot of other great things. So thank you so much for being here today and best of luck with everything. - Yeah, thank you so much, appreciate it having me.
