Hello everybody, welcome back to my stressing values podcast on calling crooks. I'm delighted to have you with us. Today we're interviewing a very experienced hotel owner who tells me that he started out when he was 21 and is still in the hotel trade. He's now running brilliant hotels. So I'm very pleased to introduce you to Anoub Saban. Anoub, welcome to the podcast. How are you? Thank you, Collins. Yeah, I'm very good. How about you? Well, I'm very well. And it's great to meet you. And I'd love to kick off just with, you know, just how did you get into this industry and what a little bit more about brilliant hotels? Yeah, well, obviously I joined the hospitality industry at the age of 21, like you said. I came from India to UK to pursue my MBA. So while I was doing my MBA, I was working for a three-star hotel in London. Obviously, because of the study, I was doing the night shifts over there. Oh, my word. Okay. I started from the lowest position, which is the night portal position. But while I was there, you know, I had a very good employer. I call him as my guru who trained me into the entire hotel operations. Sorry, in 2001, this was a time when hotel industries started to practice revenue management, which means they started to work with online travel agencies like bookin.com, Expedia, all that. Of course. Until then, it was just like a flat-flight pricing for the hotels. Yes. So same as my employer of that hotel, Mr. Nizavuji is an Harvard MBA graduate. He was also also trying to learn about MBA, and we both started learning together. He had some basic knowledge, and we started, you know, exploring that revenue management practices. And I got very much interested in this revenue management. So I started even during my, you know, I started learning, even during my spare time. Which you couldn't have had much of, I wouldn't have thought. No, I mean, if it was no revenue management, I don't think I would have, I would have been in the hospitality industry still now. I don't like hotel operations. Well, I do like now, but at that time, I didn't like the operations. I only like the revenue management part of it. Well, as a night porter, I can't imagine that's the most enjoyable part of the work. So tell us about brilliant hotels that you've set up. So from the night porter, you know, I developed my career. I grew up into the area, general manager level looking after four hotels in Kent. I set up my own hotel management company called Brilliant Hospitality Management. Okay. I had few key people working for me, for example, the course controller, you know, executive chef, and sales are marketing manager and digital marketing manager. So those were the people who were working for me, and I was managing the entire hotel operations. Right. Okay. So managing other people's hotels. That's true. So in 2017, after managing these hotels, you know, my dream was to own at least one hotel, whether it is leasehold or freehold. That's the dream. I won't mind. Yes. That's right. So a hotel in Manchester, the owner came to meet me at one of the exhibition, and he said, look, I have a hotel in Manchester. I don't want to run this hotel, but you like to take this hotel on a leasehold. Okay. Obviously, I didn't have the money to buy the freehold, because that was my first hotel. But obviously, even though there was no premium or anything for the leasehold, that's a huge run to pay. But I wanted some funds to invest in the hotel. That was almost 1.5 million. I approached the bank, and the bank raised the funds, not up to full, but half of what I wanted. And, you know, it was almost 2020, well, 2019, when we managed to finish the refurbishment of the hotel, to meet it as a foster standard, branded at that time with Best Western Signature Collection. And we completed all that in February 2020, and then the lockdown happened. Oh my word, what timing? Yes. So we had a brand new steakhouse. We had brand new bedrooms, a foster, a Best Western Signature Collection brand, opened in February, but had to close in March. Luckily, after one week of COVID lockdown, I had a call from the Council, a Crawford Council, and asked me to reopen the hotel to accommodate some NHS professionals and essential workers. Oh, okay. So we carried on operating, obviously, with all the COVID limitations, with all the guidelines, you know, all the safety applications, we carried on. So we didn't close the hotel on a random one week. One of my friends, after that called me, that was, after everything is reopened in 2021, he was migrating to Pakistan for, he had three hotels. Okay. So he asked me whether I, you know, whether I'm interested in those three hotels. So obviously coming from, that was the time I moved from Kent to Manchester. You've moved home. Right. So Kent was actually a full-on operation, a busy life for me, because, you know, managing four hotels, and just, I became bored of myself. For example, you know, from a busy four-star, four hotel operations coming to a 36-bed room. So I had plenty of time. I was really looking for a second hotel. So that was when I got this opportunity of three hotels. Okay. From there, yeah, I just occurred, you know, all the opportunities that came on my table. Most of them were that I was not looking for it. The orders were conducting me to either run it on a management contract or, or at least contract, you know, I, so I had four hotels at that time. And then the fifth hotel I managed to buy the three holds, and that was in crew. Wow. And then obviously, you know, the one thing that I forgot is when I grew with the number of hotels, I forgot to grow the team. You forgot. That's right. Yeah. Obviously, I did recruit, but most of them was like a one-man show, was managed by me, but it was operations, whether it was sales, revenue management, everything was done by me, including me. Oh, my word. So you're now responsible for doing all of those back-office functions and the marketing and the sales. I want- Pretty much on your own for, I think it's eight hotels now, is it? That's right now, but I now got a small team. Okay. Now trying to delegate. I am now trying to recruit more people, but for two years, between 2021 and 2023, I was on my own running the show. And how well are you adapting to this delegating thing? Because that's very intense on your own for two years. How are you finding that? Well, there are two sides of coins. I mean, we can't delegate, you know, but there is a cost to play for that, to pay for that. For example, you know, I am a man of perfection. I want everything to be done rightly. And I always thought, if I don't do it, you know, it will not come into a hundred percent perfection. I hear this a lot. Yes, others may do it, but you know, I would be only 50 percent satisfied without come. Okay. So at that time, I was just doing it everything by myself, you know, by only giving the less or less complicated task to other people. But I have now realized that's not the right way. You know, yes, this is business. In business, this is how we learned, you know, we may have to delegate, we have to build the team up. Yes, they will make the mistakes from mistakes they will learn, you know, so that's the risk you have to take. They're going to learn from the mistakes. Yes. Oh, yeah. But while they do that, there would be a cost for us to pay. That is this opportunity cost or any, you know, you know, any the customer reviews or the customer's yes, those kind of things, you know, so as long as you are prepared to pay that cost, under person, you should delegate. Yes. And what is your process for delegating? How do you know the job is done? Yeah, I mean, putting control procedures, I mean, as long as every single company has got standard operating procedures, and each, you know, delegates are assigned those tasks, then it's only a matter of monitoring the work completion, whether it's the right track or anything. I like to hear that. And that is fantastic. So how did you write up those procedures? Did you do it or did somebody do it for you? Well, I hired few people to do it for me. But again, I was 100% happy. So because I worked with multiple brands like Vinden, IAG, Beth's best assistant, and I researched a lot of other brand standards. I did a brand standard of myself, okay, taking every single thing or sharing all the best practices. I took every good practices from every single brand. So I have now formed a standard operating procedures for the brilliant hotels collections. Right, that's the best of everything you could find. Very true. Yeah. So now I have a group HR and training manager, who is slowly implementing these procedures at every single hotels. Great. Brilliant. Yes. So this is this exercise we started six months ago, and we are successfully completing the seventh hotel now with the standards. Oh, so it's progressing quite quickly. Very true. Yeah. We started this procedure last this exercise in September last year. Brilliant. But we had to put a hold on to our growth. So after last year, it was the park hall resort and spa in June, 2023 since then. I mean, I'm not looking at any hotels to acquire other than two management contracts. Okay. So you want to bid the system in before you move on to the next thing. But you're still quite heavily engaged and you're traveling around all of the hotels pretty frequently, I imagine. Very true. Because I am of a person, you know, I just don't want to just because I'm a managing director of the company, I just don't want to sit in the office and do the numbers or, you know, read the reports only. I just need to, you know, I need to make sure every single hotel is run effectively. So I do visit every single hotel at least. Right. So you're on the road going out to wherever they are, crew. I think you've got one of Felix. So. Paul de France, Cheltenham, those are the further hotels. You know, most of our hotels are within the one mile of radius. Okay. Well, you've got a few outliers. Yeah. Yeah. Four hotels are just a bit far out. Those hotels I do visit only once every two weeks. But Felix Joe may be, you know, once every month. But again, you know, the cost that I had to pay for that is, you know, a halt on the growth. Is that exactly? Absolutely. If I had the right team, for example, an operations director or a managing director, yes, you know, like me to represent me, I could send him or her to visit those hotels and I can focus on growth and more acquisition. Yeah, acquisitions. That's right. So you could go to the strategy of it. Well, the operations were being looked after. That's right. Yeah. I mean, I know that sounds a lot of traveling. I imagine from what you're telling me about your focus on perfection, you must work very long hours. I do. I should say I used to. I'm still. So I used to work 16 to 18 hours, you know, a day. But over the last three, four months, I've now started reducing it. Okay. And how many are you at at the moment then? Still 12 to 13 hours a day. Oh, my word. I just want to bring it down to eight to nine hours. Absolutely. But there is a big improvement, you know, even with the stress level or with the, you know, with all the tasks that I have, you know, complicated tasks. I mean, currently as a company, we are coming into a fine tune stage. And personally myself, I'm trying to adapt to this. You're taking less stress and trying to. Oh, this is music. Absolutely. So what have you done then in the last few months to get you down from 16 to 12 hours roughly? Delegation since last year, September, we started recruiting quality and efficient people and started delegating. Like I said, you know, it may not be 100% perfect, but I'm still happy. 50% of my workload is reduced. Whoa. And how are you using that spare time you've got suddenly? With a family, of course, obviously, for the last 23 years of my career in the hospital in the screen, I don't think I have managed to give enough time to my family. No, that's got that's the thing that loses out, isn't it? That's right. So I'm having a quality time with the family over the last one year. And I want to give more. And how big is the family? I got three sons, three different, you know, big age gaps, 18, 12, and six. Okay. So they take up whatever time you can give to them. They, they, they want to see you all the time. I mean, especially the eldest one, I couldn't give enough time. No, you know, he's now in the university. I, you know, call him and visit him once every week when he comes home. So I drop him at the universities. Or during that time, I make sure I have a quality time with him. Fantastic. Other two are still, you know, my spend the weekends with them, take them out. You know, sometimes I take them. Of course, during the school holidays, I take them with my to the work as well. Oh, you bring him to a hotel? Yeah, during the school holidays. Yeah. You know, just want them to see, you know, what my setup style is. I think that's hysterical. Fantastic. So delegation is at the heart here of reducing the amount of hours you work, but it seems also taken quite a lot of stress off you. It has. I mean, compared to last year, I'm much, you know, relieved now. I feel very much satisfied now with the level of outwork. I mean, it did take a good six months for them to understand my vision, my core values, where the company is going, the company's vision, what I want to make this brilliant to be, you know, it took them three to six months. Yeah, it would do. I think that's right. Yes. And what are the core values you wanted to get over to them? Well, to me, obviously, to me, for every business to be successful, it needs to satisfy four pillars. Okay. So those pillars were obviously definitely is the employee satisfaction. Yes. If you satisfy what I believe is, if you satisfy the employees, they will in turn satisfy the guests. So that's the guest satisfaction. Yes. And the guests. If the guests are satisfied, obviously, the revenue and this review score goes up in the stakeholders are satisfied as well. Yes. But the most and the final part of it, yes, the business can be good. The satisfaction level can be good. But if you don't play a vital role within the local community by with a community engagement or by satisfy the local community, then that business will become isolated. We need the local community support. So whatever we make, we give a percentage to the local community as well, either through charity, contribution, or, you know, some kind of community initiative programs we need to have. I think that's lovely. But you use that word isolated. What do you mean by the business becomes isolated? But my hotel, I want to make it as a local hub for the local community. They should the local community or the local residents should be able to come to a hotel for anything, but it is a kind of a part of tea or a coffee or a pint or even having a larger function. But for them to come and visit our hotel, we need to be part of them. Yes, yes. But, you know, we can't just expect their business and not to give back anything. But so a lot of initiative programs we can do. Okay. And do you think it helps you with employment, because you need lots of staff, don't you? Very true. So basically, again, a one of our vision is to do everything locally, whether recruitment, recruit local people, work with the local suppliers, meet or visitable or whatever, partner with the local attractions, you know, support the local charities. Fantastic. Yes, yes. I think that's really interesting about how working hard to satisfy your staff to make sure if they're happy, you're absolutely right. They're much more likely to provide a really good service because they're genuinely happy at work and it's not just a front that they put on because you told them they're happy at work. Yeah. Yeah. So assuming you get this new staff team together and it starts to work in the way that you're hoping, what's the plan for fighting, you know, say over the next five years? The plan for the next five years is obviously to grow, but to grow as a brand, not just like a hotel group. There are plenty of plans out there. Now, having worked with multiple brands, we know and wearing an orders hat, we know what the orders expectations are and what the orders, frustrations are becoming a branded hotel. One example is the fees that the orders pay to these brands. Yes. Are they getting the enough results from these brands? So having worked with all these brands, I now have summarized the pros and cons of becoming a branded hotel. So I want to put out a brand within the market that is less headache for the orders to implement and is less or is very cost effective. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. So you could really put brilliant across lots of different hotels. That's correct. So we will offer the franchisees or franchises, you know, where people can take our brand and follow the brand standards and we will make sure there is good connectivity with the GDS, with the other OTH channels, you know, implement a good loyalty program. At the end of the day, there are people, the owners who are not happy of the large royalty market, where the brands are charging at the moment. Yeah. I can imagine they charge quite a hefty chunk, I would have think, yes. Very true. So I need to make sure they get the good ROI on what they are spending as a as the royalty fee or sell some marketing fee. Maybe we don't even charge a royalty fee. We only charge a membership fee to become, to take our name to the hotel. Yes. As long as it comes as your costs of ensuring they up to the right standard, your sort of auditing costs. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then how many hotels would you like to have in the group then? As many I can. Obviously, you know, I grew from one hotel to 10 hotels within the last four years. But, you know, if I have the right, that's on my own, but if I have the right team, I think I could even get up to nearly 60, 70 hotels over the next five years. Yeah. I mean, if you did the, as you say, you did the first 10 on your own on literally, yeah, it's guys the limit. That's fantastic. I love it. What do you think will be the big issues though, to get there? I mean, apart from creating the team, when you look around the environment at the moment, what are the big challenges for the hotel sector? You mentioned about, apart from the team, but the team is the most important thing. Yes. Prepare to recruit. I'm prepared to give, you know, the positions to the right people, but finding the right candidate and the quality candidate is a big issue. Yeah, that's the big challenge, isn't it? That seems to be the big challenge everywhere now. Especially since COVID, when a lot of people had lacked the hospitality industry, yes, not many people want to work within the hospitality industry, because there is no social life balance, you know, they work during the evenings and weekends, when others are enjoying. So, they have realized during COVID, you know, there are other industries out there, where they can just work nine to five or seven to five, and then get their evenings and weekends. Yes, of course, you can't offer that in hospitality. Exactly, because that's when other people come to our hospital or hotels, and we have to serve them. So, it is very difficult. However, I got a solution for that too. Okay. So, I'm partnering with Hotter Management School in Greece. They call Swiss alpine. Right. So, we are going to open a Hotter Management School at one of our hotter campuses. Interesting. You know, train and develop the, like it will deliver some courses to them. Yes. With the help of the, you know, education authority, we will develop them and make a recruitment pool here. So, these people, once they, these students, once they finish their course, they can be taken to our own hotels, or even we can supply to any other hotel. Yeah. Whoa. That's old plan. There are a lot of environmental or economic issues, which obviously, we just have to go along with that and try to cover control, obviously, utility cost is something that we can't come to. No, you're not in control of the utilities. Not much you can do about that. That's right. I mean, again, you know, team development and local community works. Yeah. That's those are two my two goals. Yes. I think that's really going to be key to that employment thing as well, having a strong reputation in every local town makes you a more desirable employer. So, people are going to come to you more than maybe another company. That's right. Wow. So, you've done everything in the hotel trade, literally from night porter upwards. That's right. So, if you, if you were talking to somebody who wanted to get into hotel management, or indeed to own that hotel, like you did, what would be your three tips? What would you tell them? My three tips is first, you need to learn everything. So, I managed to go. If you are just becoming an investor, you know, that you don't want to know anything about the operations and you just want to invest money and then go. Obviously, you know, there will be only a certain benefit to that. But if you really want to become a hotel owner, you need to be on the floor. You need to know everything. If you're asking, if you want to tell your meeting staff, that's not how you make a cup of tea. That's not how you serve a coffee or a cup of gin. You need to know how to make it. You need to know how to do it. Yeah. So, I love that. That's exactly what I think. Yeah. Otherwise, you can't, you know, you can't criticize them or you can't develop them. Other people. No. So, first, learn the industry by working every single department. And then, once you learn that, then work with the team. You know, again, just don't sit back and sit in the office and say that, okay, have you know everything, now you're on the show. Sometimes, there will come a situation that that's a big banjo thing. You may have to be with them to serve the plates, you know, to be, to serve in the bar. Yeah, you've got to get stuck in. Yeah, whatever's needed. Yes. The team needs to feel that, look, if I'm getting short of staff or if I feel I need some support, I can reach out to my owner. Wow. Yeah. Get in there. Get involved. Yeah. Showed support. And the main important issue of what, from my experience, is don't forget to grow your team while you grow your company. Yeah. Yes, I manage. I manage. Why? That's only because of my family support. Yes. Can imagine, obviously, I've been spending 16 to 18 hours in the business. Yeah. Yeah. Knowing the family, but my family supported me very well, but not everyone will do that. No. So, you know, at the right time, grow your team at the right time, if you want to grow, and, you know, achieve your ambitions. I, that is a beautiful way to end the interview, and it's, I made the same mistake, did it all myself for ages and learned the hard way that actually delegating is the only way in town, really. And sounds like you've done the same, but, yeah, that's, you do need that support. Is the only way you can grow? Yeah, 100% yeah. Brilliant. Well, on that note, that I wish you well, and I hope growth comes all the way. Thank you. Thank you very much, Anu. It's been a really interesting interview. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for my pleasure. Take care.
