Honey Badger Radio

Simone and Malcolm Collins of Based Camp on the Bear Meme and More! | Fireside Chat 246

Join us on the Fireside Chat as we chat with the hosts of Based Camp, Malcolm and Simone! Malcolm and Simone dive deep into what it means to find success, meaning, and responsibility as an individual in the context of society. They touch on the dangers of hedonism, the importance of "delusions of grandeur," why suffering is essential, why we're not all equal, playing your role, taking on the burden of humanity, developing real confidence, having initiative, and more. We will talk about relationship dynamics, natalism, the bear meme and more!

Duration:: 1h 8m
Broadcast on:: 18 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Hello everybody and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. My name is Brian and this is the fireside chat. Normally the fireside chat is just me and like one other person but this time we got like a whole schmorgs board of people with opinions. I'm here with of course the boss Alison and our very special guest. Well I don't know how to, I'm just going to say based camp which consists of Malcolm and Simone. I saw you guys doing the rounds. You know actually before we get into it, the first place I ever saw you. You might surprise people, it was not side scrollers. I think that's where a lot of people saw you guys first. I saw you on this guy. I watched every once in a while, Paul Vanderklay. And so, yes I am. I mean I think he's alright. I think he's a pretty interesting fellow and I saw you guys and it was interesting because it was around the time that Alison and I were responding to a Tom Woods podcast. We were talking about the, where he was talking to a guy who runs a website called. Why am I for natalism.com or natalism.org or something like that and they were essentially trying to promote, you know, people creating families. And so I saw you guys and you seemed like just and I know judging a book by its cover but when I looked at you I was like there's no way these people are like having babies. Like they're literally the characters from the beginning of videocracy that are like I'm going to freeze my eggs until, you know, but no, no, you guys were totally into it and I thought your story was quite fascinating. And then what really got my attention was the bear meme because we have been talking about this kind of what Alison calls it threat narratives around men for a long time. Alison's been probably doing it for 20 years. I've been doing it for the last 10. And the bear meme is just kind of like the latest incarnation of this same thing. And no one was talking about it in the way that we or you have guys were talking about it because I think that people tend to take some of these hypotheticals literally, but not seriously. And I think that you guys had to actually especially Malcolm had taken, he was considering like the deeper implications of this. And so after that I was like, I want to reach out to you guys. So thanks for coming on the show. I love this. We are so glad to be here. Where you first heard of us is so indicative of your guys online profile and the type of content you consume. Because I was like, Oh, well, I assumed you were going to say modern wisdom with Chris Williams said because we were on that about a year before any of that other stuff, which is a very mainstream podcast or or peers Morgan, or just pearly things. But no, it's a sight scroller is it's popular, but still a fairly like nerdy cut. And then Paul, you don't know who Paul Vanderkly is. He's like a Christian theology youtuber, which is, which is really cool. That's a community we quite like, well, we'll be doing something. It was like the millennial skeptics soon. But I can drop right into our take on the bear meme because I thought that what it showed was how much when we talk about society we talk about it in terms of cultural groups. And the cultural group that is mostly represented in the left is what we call the urban monoculture, which is this in most urban centers around the world. And it has facets like wokism and like different things, but these are more like a cast or some factions within the larger movement. You can almost take them as like religious orders of like the Catholic church, but they're still Catholics, you know. And it showed to us the bear meme, how successfully this movement has dehumanized men into just being reflexively monsters. And the way that we framed it on that particular episode, which I had actually done just to try to catch the algorithm. Look, I didn't feel like I had any deep thoughts in that episode, but I just was showing images of the women who they were interviewing. But then I put the word black before the term man, or I put the term Jewish before the term man, like, well, you know, I can't really feel safe around black men. Well, you know, the bear doesn't always attack, but black men do, or, well, you know how dangerous, you know, and when you hear it like that. And now what's so interesting is casting the man in this narrative as a racial minority to the urban monoculture immediately humanizes him. So the moment they hear that was the term black in front of it, they go, oh, I'm talking about a human within a category. They did not choose to be born into in this incredibly dehumanizing and derogatory way. I'm not supposed to do that. Like, that's horrible. And we live in a society now where they can be like, well, that's not true. I mean, black people are systematically discriminated against it. I'm like, yeah, and look at the rates of men who get into college. Look at, look at like earning differences between young men and young women. Look at like among most metrics if you cut off the generation that grew up in the 70s, you know, which are increasingly becoming a smaller part of our society. You see a society where men are being systematically discriminated against. And they're like, yeah, well, the legal system, you know, even treats black people differently than non black people. And it's like, oh, why don't you look at the way that legal system treats men in things like murder trials. There have been tons of studies done on this. They're much more likely to be convicted than women. or they're like, "Well, hold on. It's justified with men because men commit grapes at higher rates than women. And therefore, I'm justified." And I'm like, "Well, you could look at crime stats." And they're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa." And I'm like, "This is why we have these rules for discriminated groups. This is why we built these norms because the first step in systematic discrimination and then violence is the dehumanization of a group. That is always what the powers that be do first." And I should note that none of this, I don't think that there's anyone intentionally doing all of this. I think that a lot of this is just sort of a way the urban monoculture recruits people, like we can get to the nuances and then the systems of it that were doing this outcompeted, the systems that didn't. I mean, the dehumanization of specific genders and sexes and ethnic groups is something that has convergently evolved in many successful cultural groups throughout history. So it's not surprising that it happened here, but we can also look and see what happens next. But anyway, I've been ranting. That's okay. That's great. You just jumped right in. I love it. So it's interesting you bring it up in the case of how you make the argument by saying, look, if you take men by itself, it doesn't appear to pierce the consciousness of people to be like, whoa, that's messed up. But if you add a descriptor, you make them black or Jewish or gay or something, and all of a sudden people are like, whoa, this changes everything. And what I want to, because we talk about men's issues, we've been doing this for a long time. And one of the things that is the most difficult perimeter to pierce to get past, the first obstacle, is getting people to see men as men first, not black men, not gay men, not whatever men, right? And it's extremely difficult. And I think the bear meme demonstrates that. So that's like, I want to know, Simone, if you have any thoughts on this, because I saw like, I watched your video, we kind of responded to it too, I think, right, Allison? We like did a little response video. We were nice to you guys. We're not normally nice to people, but we were nice to you guys. You don't need to be nice. No, no, yeah, no, that's cool. So anyway, Simone, what do you think? What do you think? I'm really grateful for Malcolm's coverage of this, because I come in like your typical YouTube viewer, I think that's how our podcast works. Like he has interesting things to say. And I'm like, Oh, like I kind of ask the dumb questions and follow along. And I had no idea just how insensitive the entire meme was from the beginning and kind of couldn't believe it. And I think what's going on with our culture is kind of like that that there's this spoiling the frog thing that's happening, where a lot of people kind of take what they're hearing at face value and they're like, yeah, I don't know, whatever. So like people are saying this and they're not thinking through to the conclusions of what is underneath the surface, what Malcolm laid bare with what he just said, you know, about what we're really saying. And I'm glad that you I'm glad that you guys and Malcolm are kind of piloting these things because I representing the average person. I would I would ask then, why do you think like when you realized it, why do you think you were like, why do you think you didn't see it before? Because this is like another thing that I'm trying to like get people to think about like, if you're just now learning that, you know, men are human, not not that you didn't think that, but like I'm being hyperbolic, I'm purpose. If you're just now realizing that the way that we treat our men is so callous in not just what we do say, because men don't really want their butts kissed, right? But in what we don't say or the way that we we sort of like, there's like this radiation of, I don't know, like danger towards women around them. And then you realize it. And then you're like, when you're wondering, where did that come from? So I'm wondering if you've thought about that. Yeah, I mean, you know, when it comes to like, how do you jar people into awareness about these things, you have to be jarring. And I think that's the problem because most people are just going to, you know, I think the best explanation for this is how I heard they structured jokes in 30 Rock, the show that was written by Tina Fey and Company. They had this structure where jokes were delivered in a one to punch. So they would deliver the joke for like smart people first. And then they would literally spell out the joke. And you can see this when you watch the show really consistently. And I think that that's sort of the key is that there are these tiers of people online. There are people like you who immediately get the joke and you're like, Holy shit, and you will leave this as happiness. And then there's the rest of society where they're like, huh? You know, and then you have to be like, and yeah, like you've to explain what was just so funny about it. And I think a lot of it comes to dumbing things down in that way. I'm not saying because, you know, people are dumb. I'm saying because people are distracted. Typically, when we're watching something like this, we're also folding laundry or shopping or pretending to work or something like that. Right. So I think that's one reason why is our attention is so divided down. Our attention spans are so short that a lot of really important things are getting past us and a really important job of the average YouTuber commentator, like sort of anything. Anyone who's providing commentary online, who's any non-trivial following is to kind of jar people away from that and to be aware of the fact that they're only half paying attention. Well, I also want to point out this specifically during the episode because the episode was basically me trying to get Simone to realize this is a big deal. And her initial reaction was, well, they must not really mean it. Like it's something that's being said all of the time, but they must be like thinking of men who aren't their immediate family members or the people that they actually know. And then I would be like, no, here's a follow up interview where this woman literally said, including my dad, including my brother, you know, and this is how dehumanization works. And it's happened so many times throughout history that I think people can't realize or struggle to recognize when they are on or they have adopted the villainous perspective where they are really within the bad guy group and the group that is going down total dehumanization. So you see the cultural group, the urban monoculture is doing this with men. But you know, it's not just doing this with men, you know, it's built a ethnic based caste system where the human dignity of some groups is determined by their ethnicity. You know, in Pennsylvania, in my home state, we had the COVID vaccine, which at least the progressives who are making these laws believed with saving lives was distributed based on ethnicity, not based on medical need. So it wasn't distributed to the elderly first, it was distributed to the ethnic groups that are considered more deserving of human dignity by the urban monoculture. And now we have entered a stage in the last few years where the lowest point on this ethnic hierarchy is Jews. And I'm like, you guys just reinvented Nazism. You like, you don't realize it yet, because you hear people in your community saying these things, saying these things about men, saying these things about Jews, and they're like, oh, I'm going to use a different word, you know, I'm going to use Zionist or something. But like, we all know what you mean. And because, you know, depending on the server, you look at it, it's like 98% to 95% of Jews are Zionist. And so you have, because it's your group, and this is the thing, they think of themselves as good. They think of the actions of like the woke as being intrinsically good. And so they define good by the things that they and their cultural group are doing, without looking for the historic parallels, or where things can go. And this really reminds me of a story that I was told by, you know, my girlfriend in high school, about her grandfather, and this was during the Holocaust, and he or before the Holocaust, and he had read Minkov. And then he went around his community, which was a Jewish ghetto, and he was like, rying to get them freaked out. He was like, he says right here, like, Jews are subhuman, Jews deserve this, Jews deserve this, we have to leave. But he was a teenager, and nobody took him seriously. And eventually he ended up like getting like disinvited from things, ended up becoming a pariah within the community. And it ended up with him breaking his girlfriend's window, and basically kidnapping her in the middle of the night and running away. And that was how they ended up surviving. But I think that people, they just don't know how bad things can get, because somebody like Simone, she hears, I literally prefer a bear to a man, and she doesn't think they're serious about this. And I think that that's the problem with like cognitively all their people, is they don't realize how much of humanity is just the masses, how much of humanity is just sworn physics. And by that, what I mean is, you know, the classic line, you know, how dumb the average person is, well, half of them are dumber than that. And so a lot of people, because they're not interacting with these dumb masses, they don't know how they can spiral out of control. Yeah, and this is how you get things like Nazi Germany. And like, I am definitely that person who's like, they don't really mean that about Jews, you know, like, and then, you know, a couple years later, we have, you know, some of the most horrible atrocities that have ever taken place. And so it is really important to take these things seriously. Yeah, a while back, like about 10, 12 years ago, I created a video called Son of Threat narrative. And it went through and it compared feminist rhetoric to rhetoric that was used by Nazi Germany, segregationists, and, you know, other people in the past who had targeted specific groups for propagating. And it was identical, like, down to every, to the phrasing, to the use of comparisons to animals, not just animals, but dangerous animals. And that was the first video that I've ever had that was banned off of YouTube for hate speech. Because I was pointing out hate speech. And I was, and I actually used that, that technique that Malcolm used with a ad was called Riverside at the time. It was a, it was a service for survivors of sexual assault, which of course they say is synonymous with women, which it isn't, by the way. And they used a baby in the ad. Like they said, what are you telling him? He's going to grow up to be a rapist, is they, and it was a child, like the child, the age of your child that you have your arms right now is gracious. Yeah. And what I did is I took that ad, and I replaced the baby, added to that a video of a Asian child and a black child. And then I said, what are you telling him? And, and then people realized what it was that that was said. And then again, it got, it got, got taken down from YouTube. It was about three or four years of appeal saying this is not hate speech. This is calling out hate speech before they reinstated it and said, yep, you're right. It's not hate speech. So it got flagged by someone who did not like the fact that I was calling out what they were actually doing. And using like, using the technique that Malcolm talked about to do it. And that was years and years and years ago. And, and since then it's just gotten worse. And yes, comparing men to bears is not just comparing men to animals because animals, we can tend to have a compassion for animals, but it's comparing them to animals in a way that frames them as criminal. And that's what they find that that actual propaganda rhetoric frames the target group as criminal and antisocial. And that's what we've been doing to men probably since the declaration of sentiments, if not before, like the 1800s, if not before. So it's, it's, it's well time to start calling it out and recognizing it for what it genuinely is. Anyway, I just wanted to say that because that was sort, it sort of reminded me of all of that way back when and the trouble that I had keeping that video up on YouTube. Maybe I'll send it a link to it for you guys can take a look. It's, it's pretty intense. I mean, I will admit that. But anyway, I will step off the podium and let you guys continue. Go ahead, Malcolm. No, I think Malcolm is going to say something. Oh, okay, okay. You know, I was going to say, Simone, to your, to your credit, when I brought the mayor, the bear me mum with my own wife who's been involved with these issues almost as long as me, she didn't get it either. She, she was just like, well, what if it's, she was like, it depends on the bear. It depends on the man. And I was like, you know, and it's like, an angry looking bear? Yeah, is it a grizzly bear? Is it a hungry polar bear? Because she's, you know, she was, again, she was thinking of it in a logical way. Like there's no way that that this is just about, you know, men being more dangerous. Yeah, this is not just propaganda. Exactly. Allison. And, and when I got her to say, I said, look, no, this is not about the bear. This could have been any animal. They could have used any animal in its place. It's about what, what they're trying to get women to say about men. Now, now, there is another thing to this, another angle on this, as it were, because my wife Lindsey, she takes things literally. And so she's just like, well, literally, you know, in this context, you know, but there is another thing too. I think that when it seems to me, and you guys let me know what you think about this, when you prompt people to answer a hypothetical, and there is a general sort of like tone or opinion that they think is popular, then they'll just repeat it. So if women know that it's cool to just like, you know, take a dump on men. And, and there is a, there is a, yeah, they'll just say, they'll just do it because what they're, what they're doing is they're not, they're not saying it because they feel this way about men. They're saying it because they want to feel like they belong with the sisterhood or like this greater group. Or as you described it Malcolm, the monoculture, this, this urban monoculture, is it, is it also a club that people feel like they're a part of when they repeat the same, you know, sort of hymns? Well, it's not just like the same hymns. So our society for a while has done a pretty good job. Historically, if you look historically throughout human history, almost every single large culture or long lived culture had a degree of racism, had a degree of sexism, had a degree of religious discrimination. It was actually really weird that we lived in a society where we had managed to mostly stomp that stuff out and have people recognize it as evil when it began to bubble up. And the reason why that happens, or the reason that we were able to do that is we were able to create a culture where it was just seen as negative, like just intrinsically negative whenever anyone is calling groups different or treating groups differently. And it was, why did we have to be so hard on that? Why did we have to, as a society, treat racism as like one of the highest sins there is in order to finally stamp it out? Like, why did we have to treat sexism as one of the highest sins there is? And then as soon as we created little groups where we successfully did that, and then some people were like, yeah, but racism doesn't count when white people are doing it, or maybe when Jews are doing it, or maybe when, you know, and so they're able to create these special categories, right, where you don't get this protection no longer extent. Sexism doesn't matter when it's exerted to men. So now they're out from under this category. And then we see why we needed those categories, why we needed these protections universally, because of how quickly it spirals when you can virtue signal to your community through hatred of a non-empowered group. Right. No, it's not enough to not be racist. You have to be actively anti-racist is the is the Robert D'Angelo line, right? Well, not in that because like anti-racism, it would actually shows up very differently if you look at the end desired, right? But really, what anti-racism has become in practice is just performative bigotry, weirdly, you know, because like, what does Robin D'Angelo advocate for like a fit racial affinity groups that this is not anti-racism, this is entrenching racism, this is making it literally like two different water water fountains. This is her whole thing. But hold on, before we go further with this, what I wanted to point out is how this happens. So let's take a different group in a different society. So one of the things I point out in some of our episodes about the war right now is I have a lot of friends who are successful Middle Easterners who live in the Middle East. You know, they live in countries like the UAE or Qatar or Saudi Arabia. None of them have any genuine anti-Semitism themselves. But they, their societies have reached a state where they are genuinely afraid to publicly say that they aren't anti-Semitic, that they don't hate the Jews. And when you look at what it's like to be like an educated, rational, kind person in one of these countries, which can feel very 21st century and then realize that these people feel afraid to signal that they don't dehumanize this community, that is where many women in the urban monoculture have reached. They have reached the state where they realize that there will be social costs to them for not jumping at the opportunity to talk about how bad these people are whenever this one group comes up. And I think the bear meme does a very good job of that because it's so comical. Like, of course, you don't rationally, like, or anybody who isn't like completely brainwashed wouldn't think this. So these people are either showing that they're completely brainwashed or if they have a public opportunity to advance a brainwashing narrative men are evil, that they are going to take this opportunity. And people can be like, this doesn't have downstream effects. But you can look at the U.S. where right now if you look at IVF selection for female embryos, in the U.S. at 70% right now. If you look, there was a lawsuit recently where a couple accidentally was implanted by one of their male embryos and they sued the clinic saying that the worst thing they could imagine was bringing a man into the world or to happen being growing inside them. Can you believe? It's so horrible. No, no, but I can believe when this rhetoric is normalized, there is a portion of the population that is just totally on autopilot and going with what's socially normalized around them. And so when people respond this way to questions, a chunk of the population, I'd say about 30, 35% is just like, oh, I hate men now. I understand how this works. They don't have a real logical structure by which they're engaging with the world. Wokism has, especially because many of these people are secularized, Wokism has become a literal religious framework for them. And within this religious framework, men are not deserving of human dignity. And the type of restrictions of, oh, this is a discriminated class are not allowed to apply to men. Yeah. Wokism is definitely a religion. On the subject of the bear meme, did this come across your death, the recent news story about the 19 year old girl who was brutally killed by a bear? Essentially, the bear chased her and then threw her over a 40, 400 foot cliff, to tenderize her, probably. And while this was happening, while she was being chased, she was actually calling, you know, her boyfriend was, of course, unable to do anything. Because what can you do against a ton predator going after someone, but also she was calling to try to get help. And it's like, that is exactly what would happen and I bet that that is one of the first bears she's ever encountered in her life. Well, one doesn't encounter one would hope. But you might run into a black bear if you let go of the cameras immediately tear your face off. But yeah, so this is probably one of the first bears she's ever encountered. And it kills her. And the per capita, like think about how many men she's encountered in her life and the fact that she was calling for men for help with the bear. And it's like, this is this, you're right, this is absolute absurdity. So it becomes this kind of gang colors of, are you willing to buy into the absurd in order to demonstrate that you're part of the in group? And it's interesting that you bring up this idea that women are doing it in order not to be punished. And I would say that that is a lot of what we're seeing from women is due to intersectional, intersectional aggression and competition. So the intersectional between women, you mean, intersectional, intersectional competition between women between women. Yeah. So it's like, a lot of this stuff isn't doesn't even really have that much to do with men. It has to do with women forcing each other into conformity and also competing with each other in terms of their life choices, you know, and also the crab, the bucket of crabs phenomenon where they, you know, women don't want other women to succeed. And I think that's understated, like how much of this is actually driven by competition between women and conformity with women. So I'll just throw that out there if you have any thoughts on that. One of the places that we're seeing this a lot in modern society was in the urban monoculture. And it is a tool that the urban monoculture uses to recruit people. But it's also part of intersectional competition is the concept, I guess we'd call it the lizzo concept, which is that all women are equally attractive. And they will parrot this. And yet everybody knows this isn't true. And there's a great scene of like, I forgot like somebody saying this and then somebody like later coming up to them and being like, you look like lizzo and getting slapped. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is like, of course, you know, because they don't really believe this. And so there's there's two things going on here. The first is why did this idea spread within the urban monoculture? Because the urban monocultures core value system in core attractor, because it has almost no kids, almost nobody in the urban monoculture has kids. Before the 90s, Democrats and Republicans have the same number of kids. Post 90s, Democrats basically don't have kids in the more progressive you are the fewer kids you have. So you've got to recruit people from demographically healthy cultural groups or import people from demically healthy cultural groups. And the one of the ways that you can recruit people is say, join our group and you won't have to deal with any negative emotional situations. You won't have to trigger warnings. What did that just know, never have to engage with any topic that is emotionally uncomfortable. But you also see this in things like the haze movement, which makes no sense, you know, the healthy at every size of it. It's about removing any chance of encountering information, which is in the moment uncomfortable. Or like the fentanyl handout programs on streets now, or the ending testing in California, like all of these things increase inequality, but decrease in the moment pain. But that's also what we're seeing with this removal of the belief that some people are less attractive than other people, because for women, a huge part of their self image and self validation is their view of themselves as attractive. And so there's two pathways to have this view of I am an attractive woman. You know, one pathway is to say, I'm going to put in the effort to become more attractive. And then the other is to say, I am going to try to convince myself I am more attractive than I am and then use community validation to masturbate this new self image. And because that's an easier pathway, the iterations of the culture, like I don't think any of this is like planned by a guy up high. It's just the iterations of the culture that validated everyone ended up being able to disproportionately recruit more people and therefore became a larger and larger part of the cultural faction, especially given that this never experienced any uncomfortable emotion is the core value prop of the urban monoculture, even though pretends the core value prop is the equality, it's not equality. Well, this creates a really interesting situation in terms of intersectional competition, because women obviously, in terms of competing for a sexual partner, do better in environments where a portion of the female population, the dumber portion of the female population actually believes they are attractive when they are, in fact, very unattractive, because then they do not work on themselves, and then they do not actually compete with these women. And so it's a very interesting sort of like Machiavellian play that's going on here, where like a portion of women in the urban monoculture realized this isn't true, but they get no reward because truth isn't rewarded in the urban monoculture by telling other women, but I mean, you know, you really should work out and stop eating as much because that actually works for them. Yeah, yeah. You mentioned that women, they feel valuable when they feel attractive, it's something to that extent. And I mean, obviously, that's true. I think men want to be seen as attractive as well, but they don't think it's not their physical appearance that generally gives them that. It's there, it's what it's not what women are generally drawn to, at least not for like some long term thing. They want a man who has some potential and will, you know, to rise in status and his ability to provide and protect her, right? And a lot enough to be desired for men that the metric is more like how many women can I sleep with or how many women or how much sex am I actually having? So to women in my life, yeah, I think actually Malcolm is closer because I think the men who think that they're probably extremely high status men that don't have to worry about, you know, necessarily like feeling valued for what they can produce because they're already high, they have a lot of money, they're good looking, they have their pick of the litter, but the normal men that are just, you know, trying to figure out, they're just trying to get by, they're trying to find out what they're supposed to do. They're looking to say, you know, they want a woman that will essentially find them valuable or who they are or at least see the potential in them and get behind them. It's men, if you can, a good woman that's a good cheerleader for a man, he can do almost anything. I mean, that's like one of the things that is, I think, understated. But what you're talking about is also what's happening in the in our current culture is essentially the death of merit or at least an attempt to kill it. In every in every avenue, whether it's your attractiveness or your job or your competency or your intelligence, because if some people are better than other people, then other people feel bad about it, and we can't have that. Well, I love Mary Herring had this really great, like, low-key conspiracy theory, where she noticed that children's books today are egregiously ugly, like the illustrations themselves are ugly. And she sort of saw this as part of this conspiracy theory. It's sort of just like against trying to even make things beautiful anymore. Like, you know, children are normalizing to ugliness and mediocrity, and you're OK like you are, and don't try harder. And it doesn't seem to be-- I think our itself has gotten uglier, not just in children's books. It has, though. It really has. I want to get to the ugly topic, but this is going to be a long tangent. And before this, I want to address a point that Simone made, because I think it was really astute and worth noting, culturally speaking, is there is a large cultural faction that is outside the urban monoculture. But I think just as toxic as the urban monoculture, which is telling men to value primarily their presentation as a sexually desirable male. And, you know, these are the groups who might see someone like you or me and be like, bro, you know, you should be taking more testosterone, you should be, and I'm like, I'm married. I have four kids. Like, the reason why it's important that a man looks that way, right? Like, the reason why we value that in a male in society is because that is what women value when they are searching for a partner to settle down with, or it's one of the things that they value. The problem is-- and we see this was women in our society as well, where when we're saying, oh, what is valued in a woman, it is the things that make her attractive to a potential mate. But we need to remember the only reason why we value those things, the things that make a woman attractive to a potential mate, is because that increases a young woman's probability of becoming a mother in a happy relationship with a lot of kids. Once a woman is in a relationship with a lot of kids, and it is in a happy marriage, or a guy is in a-- with a ton of kids, people are like, work out. I'm like, what? You want me to work out? Because the time I'm spending working on is time I'm not spending with my kids. Like, you have completely twisted priorities. We have this really long episode, you know, called something like plastic surgery is text. What was it? You know, where you stuff animals. Taxidermy. Taxidermy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the point I'm making it is, is it sort of like if you consider your looks or this useful expression of a beauty and sexual desire that certain people have as like the fish. We are given the fish when we go through puberty, and you are supposed to go to the market and sell the fish, right? But then you realize in the market, there has become this status hierarchy around how fresh the fish looks and how large the fish is in all of these other things. And so then you come home 10 days later with a rotting fish, because you thought that the fish was the thing of value, not the thing you were supposed to sell. And then you taxidermy this fish, because now we live in a fish based society, when you didn't use the fish for what it was used for. And this is something where I'm always think that the hilarity when my wife comes to me and she's like, Oh, you know, I'm feeling self conscious, because then you know, I'm getting varicose veins on like my fifth pregnancy. And and it's like, you're that doesn't matter anymore. You you won, you are you are in the post game. That is not the metric you are measured on at this point. And and yet the status hierarchies online, even these male status hierarchies, which I say suffer from what's really interesting is on the far right, you have this gender dysphoria, just as much as you have gender dysphoria on the far left. And so I'll let you guys respond to this and I'll get back to the the beauty thing. This is the whole other. Oh, you're my okay. Okay. Well, shoot, I wanted we should probably just get back on the beauty thing. We only got about 15 minutes left in the live show really quickly. Okay, so yeah, why isn't that beauty is seen negatively within the urban monoculture? So if you look historically at our society, the conservative group in the 80s and 70s was based on a disgust based moral system. By that what I mean is the way that they motivated their voters to take specific stances was doesn't this thing elicit a disgust reaction in you? They'd say this is how they got them to be, you know, anti gay. So they got them to be like, you know, the this satanic panic, etc, etc, etc. It was a disgust based moral framework. And the left in the early days rightly said, realize this was bad. I mean, why do we feel disgust? We feel disgust because it's something that we evolved to feel to because our ancestors who had that reaction to certain stimuli had more surviving offspring. So like we feel disgust when we look at somebody who has like a disability, right? And overcoming that, you know, this was the age of mother Teresa, where, you know, hugging lepers, she overcame that feeling and realized that she shouldn't allow the disgust at her brain is outputting to be confused with a moral judgment of another person's life. So we as a society overcame that. But during that period, the far left developed a counter system to overcome this disgust based framework, which is to say things that elicit a disgust reaction are actually morally valuable, you should disproportionately attempt to engage with things that elicit disgust in you. And this new framework, society moved away from a, we have a video, we moved away from a discuss based framework, we moved to a cringe based framework. And now we're at a vitalism based framework. But forget that that's way too long a discussion. All I'm going to say is a discuss based framework. Yeah, we're now, well, I'll just quickly like, they're like, what's a vitalism based framework that's like an opposed cringe based framework is that's what like Trump and the Tiger King is like, it's people who are okay with themselves when themselves is something different from what the mainstream is. So, but anyway, back to this, what the left did. So then the ultra urban monoculture built this disgust based framework of morality, where things that are more disgusting are more moral, but then they also tied this to weakness. So when people are attacking our family and stuff like that, the weaker a thing was historically, the more valuable, the more moral it was, and the stronger a thing was historically, the less valuable it was. So they're like, oh, like some people online have criticized this, they may like they must have white nationalist sentiments, because they named some of their kids Roman sounding names, like Octavian. And I'm like, excuse me, can you see my skin color? My ancestors were, were subjugated by the Romans. Well, what does a Roman have to do with white nationalism? I am literally saying to another culture, a culture that subjugated my culture, that I thought that the way that their culture did things, because it produced more art and it produced more technology, that I can learn from that. And that's a positive thing. And then you see in the left who look at the same periods of history, who do they idolize? You know, you can look at like Bambi Thug from her, you know, big Eurovision, all of her screams against the Jews, all of her that stuff. But you know, she's super urban monoculture, right? It was paganism, witches, you know, during the similar periods in history, she's looking for the discriminated groups, then morally elevating them. But what this causes is the elevation of cultural practices, which lead to non efficaciousness. I actually think that this is a lot of what's going on right now is the Israeli Gaza conflict is the far urban monoculture is unable to see a group that is weaker as being less moral in the way they are acting to other people. And this is where you get these weird things like queers for Palestine. And it's like, well, you know what they do to queers in Palestine, you know what they do to queers in Israel, like, like, how do you square this? And there isn't a logical squaring of this. What it is, is they are less powerful. Therefore, they are more moral, which really bizarre moral action. Yeah, there is also, I think, despite what you're feeling, I'm not giving an opinion on the Israel Palestine thing, but I'm trying to understand where like these Columbia activists types are coming from. And I think that what there, what exists to them is this paradigm where Israel is the ally to the United States, the United States is our enemy. So Israel is our enemy. So this is like the law. It's not, it doesn't have anything to do with history. It doesn't have anything to do with logic. It's just, you know, they are the powerful entity because they are connected to the West. And that makes them the enemy. And that means that the Palestinians are or or Hamas even are the are the victims because they're the underdog. So they side with the underdog in every case. It's not always coming. It doesn't often come if hardly ever from a place of where they're informed on these things. And a lot of times they're just doing what their professors told them to anyways. So, you know, it's, it's like whatever, whatever side they took. But I'm, oh, go ahead, go ahead. No, I'm just going to say that I think that this is really interesting because when there isn't a clear Western ally in a global conflict now, it is ignored by the urban monoculture in a way that it wouldn't have been historically. I mean, right now people might not know this, but there's a genocide happening in Darfur again. It's been reigniting. It may even be worse than last time, but they're just not talking about it. You know, you have the situation in Haiti, which, you know, if you're talking about desk counts is going to, in the end, be at least as big as what's happening in Israel and Gaza right now. And, you know, long term at least, I've tried this entire thing. Are we looking at realistic solutions to either of these? No, because both of the aggressors are part of these from their positions, protected groups. And so they just ignore them, which leads to much more pain globally speaking than we would have historically had, or then that the left would have historically had. And we know, I mean, the Darfur region, I think, is really interesting because we know that historically, the last time this flared up, the ultra lefties really cared about this. And I think that this is how we know that it's a new culture, because a lot of people see continuity in this culture, and they think that the progressive culture today is the progressive culture of the 90s. And it's just not, it's a completely new cultural unit. Yeah, because it's, well, I don't want to get into, yes, I agree with you. I'll just say that because I want to add some other stuff. So a couple of things. So we've been talking about the de-humanization of men. Or this is like been going on since before we were born. So we're kind of just coming into this, but it has, it appears to have ramped up. But I don't think so. I think it's just been a slow climb. And this is almost like an actual consequence of our, like we have to kind of see men as disposable to some degree in order for us to have a functioning society. So it makes it easier for us to dehumanize them than say women. It's not, and I'm speaking in generalities, but I think you guys get what I'm saying. But like now that it's gotten to the point where it's men have been truly villainized. And yes, this includes men of color, by the way, because when it gets to a point, like I remember, you guys remember the viral videos of the women in New York saying I got punched by a guy, you know, in the face. And there's all these, and none of them give a description because they want to blame men, but they don't want to get too specific because it'll make them look bad. So they dance around that calling, right? I love it when women complain about cot calling. They're like, men, cot calling. I'm like, which men, cot calling? Yeah, show us the men, or what's going on in Europe with the migration, you know, the mass migration, right? And women are talking about how men on the street are treating them. And but they're not being specific. So instead, the UK passes laws against cot calling and whistling and things like this. But there, but so they're obviously responding to something, but they're also trying. It's like they're trying to have the kicking even too. So what I'm wondering about, though, is that in a way, I think all of this villainization has, I think that it should be obvious. But I would like to put it out there. Do you think that the attempted assassination that happened just a couple days ago, is it all related to this villainization or dehumanization of men or normalization? Because I find it, I find it a little bit creepy that we're all kind of carrying on relatively normal in light of those events. Like, I think people were probably like panicked after JFK's assassination for a very long time. We never forgot it. But this one, it seems so, I don't know, it's almost like Yuri Besmanov said, you know, it's the situation has been normalized. Well, I mean, I think, you're saying the urban monoculture, which has this view of men as they lower caste within it, it motivated the assassination attempt almost obviously. I think pretty obviously it did. This guy who did this, he was 12 when Trump first came into office. He lived his entire life with this dehumanizing rhetoric, which is something that we just don't see on the mainstream, right? As much as you see it on the mainstream left right now. And yeah, I mean, it's something that we shouldn't be doing at the society. It's something that we should see these groups as reprehensible as they are. And we one day will, I mean, their fertility rates are basically nil. They can't motivate people to want to survive. The unaliving rates in this community are crazy high. We went over CDC statistics on our show from a couple of years ago, showing that one in four women, young women in school in America, creates a plan to unalives themselves in any given year, not over the course of their adolescence in any given year. And it's women who are the ones who are most touched by this cultural group. This cultural group is unable to give people a philosophical reason to keep on going. So, it's not just that they dehumanize other people. They make other people's lives meaningless. They make their own members lives meaningless, basing your entire life around avoiding any form of unpleasant emotion is obviously not mentally healthy. And you know, how long it takes society to get to a point when we realize that we need to begin to quarantine the parts of our society that are infected? I don't know. But I think we're seeing it more and more with the rapid rise of homeschooling and stuff like that. Yeah, it's just wild that the only thing worse than being demonized by the urban monoculture is literally being a member of it. Allison, do you want to say anything to that? Oh, I had a thought. It just sort of floated away. It's okay. I know we've been covering a lot. Yeah, we'll be covering. We're going all over the place. I think Malcolm could give me my tangents are run for the money. Yeah, Allison does have a tendency to, well, they all, all the ladies here tend to do that. Yeah, I will say we got five minutes and we're going to go into the page from show. But I wanted to chase my thought down and maybe I'll remember it. Okay, continue. All right. But you guys are, why did you get involved with this kind of pro natalist mission? Is it a mission? Am I framing it? Civilization is about to literally collapse. Like people do not know how bad the problem is. If it keeps going at its current rate in the US and we have one generation every 30 years for every hundred Americans, there's going to be 4.3 great grandchildren. Like, and people are like, oh, we can just import people to fix this. Latin America fell below repopulation rate all the way back in 2019. And this is by the UN's own statistics. Right now they are in rapid freefall much faster than the US in terms of the decline of their fertility rates. So, you know, take a country like Costa Rica where one local demographer said that for native born Costa Rican women, we're now at a point where the fertility rate might be below one that's halving every generation well below the US. You take a country like Argentina and the stat is that right now that the view contrast 2024 was just four years ago, there's going to be 30 percent fewer four year olds entering kindergarten. You can look at a country like Oregon where the fertility rate fell from 2.1 to 1.3 in just seven years. Now, keep in mind, fertility rates are exponential. So, people don't like to get how big this is. And the economic consequences of this. Our entire society is structured like a pyramid scheme. It's not just social security. It's the economy, the global economy, not the Western economy. It is this is true for China, Korea. This is going to be the major social issue of the next century. And it will be compounded by the fact that the demographically healthier cultural groups are in the minority. They are often conservative and religious communities and that the dominant group in our society has become almost completely childless and can only survive by parasitizing children from those groups, which means it's becoming more and more aggressive in the practices that successfully do that. And so, you know, we're not just going to deal with the economic fallout. We're also going to deal with the social fallout. And I don't think anyone right now, except for a few like, I think real deep thinkers like Elon and stuff like that, Peter's eye hand is really seeing how bad this is going to be. But we want to be clear with pernatalism isn't about spamming the world with babies to make this not happen. This is going to happen. Demographical apps will take place. The question is how bad will the damage be? How quickly will governments figure out how to build their economies, their city infrastructure, their social services on civilizations that are no longer growing in terms of people? Because right now they're all basically built on pyramid scheme models. And we need to quickly switch away from that, because the pyramid scheme is going to end. And that's that's a really important thing is we're trying to raise awareness about this, because it's happening. It's going to happen. And we just like to see minimal damage. We are encouraging people who are enthusiastic about having kids to have kids or have more kids. But this isn't about shaming people into having kids or anything else like that, because when it comes to avoiding cultural mass extinction, which is one other downside that's really major from a hard landing on demographical apps, basically we're seeing some cultures have such low birth rates that they're just going to disappear. Emiratis, chains, South Koreans, Native Americans are going going gone. But it just a small number of families from each of those cultures is empowered to have the number of kids they want. And they're really into having kids. That's enough to say those cultures. So this also is in handmaid's tail type stuff. In fact, another reason why we're in this is that some nations aren't going to get the memo. And they're going to think, okay, well, instead of redesigning my entire economy or our social services, we'll just spam humans. And when they discover that carrot-based methods for spamming humans doesn't work, people won't have kids based on incentives that are at least feasible. They're going to start forcing people into having kids. And you're already seeing this in China, where they're curtailing access to abortions, even birth control. The second-week clinics are closing down. We're going to see much more dire measures. Yeah, I understand that Kim Jong-un, he gave a tearful speech to North Koreans to have more kids, even though they're having more kids than South Koreans. So I wonder if he's not going to start forcing them. I mean, I don't know. Who am I to judge? North Korea. But yeah, so this is something that we have talked about as well. And I think it comes from the question becomes not that we need to, like you said, force people to have kids, but I don't necessarily think immigration is a solution either, because you're taking people away from other countries that probably need people. Plus, even if you do it legally and you just get the best people, then you're still depriving these other nations of good people. But it's about like, what is it that we have missed? And I think you did mention the religion thing, which I agree with. But I think that the US is still largely secular, even though a lot of people are moving, or at least in the urban centers. I'm not really sure what the data is on people's religion. But what I'm wondering about is, is it possible that a lot of this anti-family, anti-male, anti-marriage, anti-commitment, you know, sort of propaganda, this cloud, could that not be part of this problem? We are seeing women who are more so engaging in kind of harem relationships, where they're sharing like, you know, very few men have access to lots and lots of women. Totally. No, I mean, it's obviously a huge part of this. You are absolutely right. And one thing you mentioned is that immigration, there was an article in The Economist recently talking about the economic woes that many of the South American countries are dealing with right now, due to demographic collapse, and that are compounded by, you know, they spend money. When you're a state, when people are young, they cost the state money. When people are middle age, they put money into the state. We are allowing these states to educate these people, spend money on them when they're young, healthcare, et cetera. And then we are taking the rewards for this. So, we are actually compounding the problems that they are having, because we aren't putting in the labor to have our own children. And there's been some really heartbreaking articles, you know, because we do a lot of business in Latin America, and we actually used to live half-time in Latin America. You know, we read the local articles and everything like that. And there is a huge crisis in Latin America right now of elderly people who are just so lonely, because even, you know, one, you have the demographic problem, but then two, a lot of their families have left. And now they're just dying alone. Like the human tragedy unchecked immigration has caused in Latin America is just completely going under the table right now. But I think it's something that we will be forced to deal with. The consequences of our actions will be forced to deal with. We also need to think of what happens to a country when you remove intergenerationally their most productive talent stream. So, you can look at a country like Haiti, where it was 89% of college grads for like three or four generations were immigrating out of the country. What does that do to a country where you take almost everyone from that country who gets a college degree, intergenerationally, like four generations? How is their bureaucracy going to function? How are they supposed to make money? You know, you have destroyed that country. We created that situation through our unchecked immigration policy. Yep. Yeah. And that's why I don't think immigration is going to be the is a solution to the population problem. Well, I mean, okay, so how much time do you guys have? Allison, what did you want to say? Well, I was going to say I did get into an argument with somebody on the left. Like, I try to stay apolitical. I know that can be offensive, but judges focus on men's issues. But I got into this argument with somebody on the left and they were talking about, well, we'll solve our problems with immigration. And like, well, the problem is you bring these individuals into our country, they adopt the culture, and then they stop having children. And so we need to solve this. And I've said multiple, like, lots of times that I think it starts with challenging this anti-email rhetoric. Like the the bear, how many marriages did the bear or relationships? Did the bear versus man meme implode? Or the Barbie movie or prevent, you know, and think about it that way. It's like that we have this constant pressure breaking men and women apart. And the first step to getting kids is to get women in relationships with men. And then in many cases, if the, you know, as it progresses, the kids will come. But that's the first step. And our culture is dead set on underselling men as partners, as saying they are terrible fathers. They're terrible roommates, basically. They don't hold their own weight. They don't do enough that you have to do all kinds of emotional labor. You get nothing from them. They're abusive, they're, they're grippy. You know, they don't, they don't do the housework. Like that's constant drumbeat of saying to women that men are a terrible choice. You're a fool to choose one. Your friends will laugh at you. And so what happens? Women don't choose men or they choose the laziest possible relationships they can get into, which is these harem models. You know, the men are highly attractive. They don't have to do any work. You know, they just call them up on Fridays. I got some time. And that's it. There's no effort to maintain a relationship or a household or to build something together. There's nothing. And that's a result, in my opinion, of all of this anti male rhetoric. And I think that, but it's also like, like, just structurally a problem with the way the urban monoculture works and the way it structures relationships. So you can think of something like polyamory, right? Where, you know, I love one of the things I'll hear from. Sorry, Brian, I introduced a new topic. That's okay. I mean, if it goes over, it goes over. It's okay. No, it's okay. Polyamory, like, like, I, you know, I'm in a polyamorous relationship right now, but you know, I'm a secondary. And what I really like to find is a guy like the guy I'm sleeping with, but who, you know, is open to monogamy or having me as his primary. And I'm like, excuse me, do you not like, and this is what a lot of women don't understand, your value on a sexual marketplace is dramatically higher than your value on a marriage marketplace. You can't, that guy is sleeping with you, not because you can get guys like that to be in a real relationship with you, but because he needs to give up nothing to do that because he's sleeping with five other people. That's why he's sleeping with you. You need to be dating a man like 10 rums below that. And it creates these twisted expectations. And women, unfortunately, because of the urban monoculture, they don't really view, they think, Oh, I need to start looking seriously for someone to marry in like my late twenties. And that's just insane. You need to be looking for somebody seriously to marry if you want to have kids in your early twenties, late teens. And and all cultures used to understand this, but the urban monoculture, it's no, you know, late twenties is when you start looking for marriage. And that's just bananas. The math doesn't work. Yeah, it might have to me, I think it might have something to do with what we think is important in our life. And I think that when you're young, and I think this is like a product of modernity, modernity, I'm sorry, is that we're supposed to like basically, especially as young people, young men and women, is to enjoy life as much as possible. And then like pursue career, all that. And then like later on, you're like, Okay, I think I'm going to settle now now. And I might look for a relationship, I might start to have kids. But I think that this is a fundamental mistake that we make. And I've been saying this more and more more recently, it's going to sound bad. But I don't know how I'll support it. Maybe there's a better way. You're not here to be happy. You're here to be useful. And I think that and if you're useful, you will then be happy. You know, I mean, this is an emergent property of pursuing something else. Yes. And that's what where people are missing, like everybody is talking about meaning. And I think that you can't have meaning and then have everything you want, like whenever you want it, like you have to pursue like what is it that I should be doing? I'll do that. Yes. And then it's Simone has a saying, which is the only true happiness you will ever experience is efficaciously pursuing and sacrificing for a well thought three value system. Mm hmm. So you guys get where I'm coming from. Good. Okay. Okay, good. I thought I was out man out to do an after show or yeah, yeah, we'll do it after show. I don't know. However long you guys can stay is fine. We're gonna end here on the lunch. We're good for an hour because it just means we're skipping our recording time and we'll just use some we can record. And I'll come from Florida for 30. Oh, okay. All right. Okay, great. Well, okay, then. Well, I have some super chats super chows. Those are our custom super chats to read out. Yeah, we have our own system. By the way, guys, if you want to send a super chat, you can go to speed the badger. Go ahead. Pathologically independent. I want to keep everything multiple platforms and anything financial off off of off a YouTube. So smart move. Yeah, YouTube is a well, but they have too much control. We don't like that. But but is where everybody is. So it's like, how do you square that circle? Anyway, okay, so we got some super chows. So a couple are from yesterday, but I should read them. And then we got a couple from today. So yesterday, we got one from the great indoors for $10. The yesterday was our news show every Tuesday. We do a new show where I cover about, you know, four or five topics of the week. And then we sort of talk about it from our perspective. And great indoors said for 10 bucks is Mike actually implying that the left is a death cult for the mere promise that they will be aiming to lead slightly further to the right next time, because they want actual results. The audacity for shame, sir, hook to a can you tone it down? Don't it down back to 11? Thank you, great indoors. That one, I guess you had to be there. Ash Thrun sent us this today, $5 and says very cool to see this conversation. Thank you, Ash Thrun. And then gives another $5 and says, what if the end of meritocracy is just another form of men or manifestation of convincing dumb women, he puts that in quotes, that they are attractive. So they don't compete. In practice, meritocracy is still valued and a criteria for attractiveness. Well, I, you know, I do think that sometimes women who will tell their less attractive friends that there are 10, you know, that whole thing where they go on the table and say, well, would you rate each other on a scale of one at 10? And they all say they're all 10s. I think a lot of that is just like, you know, don't hate me. But also, I'm sabotaging you by like making you, you know, a little bit delusional. So all right, that's all the super chows. Do you guys have any final thoughts? And on before we move into the Patreon show? No, but people should check out our podcast based camp. It's on YouTube as well. But you know, I'll say do the podcasting stuff. We don't have it. We don't have it on X, sadly. I don't know how to use that yet. Oh, yeah, it's a whole process. They didn't make it easy, but you do have to be a checkmark now to use to use the live stream on X. So all right, well, anyway, with that said, then I guess we're going to end the show here, but we're going to go into the Patreon show. So if you guys want to join us on the Patreon show, you have to become a member, go to feedthebadger.com/subscribe to get into the discord, you'll be able to watch the additional content. And if you give it higher levels, you can actually join in the conversation. So some we may get like one or two of our higher level members in the zoom call for the Patreon show. They may have their own, you know, questions or statements and opinions. Yes. So we'll we'll meet up with you guys there. Thank you so much for coming on. Malcolm and Simone really appreciate. Go ahead. Do the things. Yeah. All right. So at any time after the show is over, you can send us a comment at feedthebadger.com/justthetip. It's a very best way to send us a tip because you do not well, YouTube doesn't take half of it. And you don't have to send your comment through YouTube's enhancement system, which is a euphemism for censorship. Once again, feedthebadger.com/justthetip to send us those messages. And if you want to support the show, feedthebadger.com/support. We are offering a poster as an incentive this month for the higher tiers of support. And it's a little bit clunky right now because everything is sort of hacked together. But feedthebadger.com/support to support the show. And again, feedthebadger.com/justthetip to send us a message after the show is going over and we will respond to it at the next relevant show. All right. Back to you, Brian. Okay. Well, if you guys like this video, please hit like subscribe. If you're not already subscribed, hit the bell for notifications, leave us a comment. Let us know what you guys think about what we discussed on the show today. Links to all of the places that the base camp is at is in the description of this video. And I double check to make sure it's there and it is. And yeah, please, please, please share this video because sharing is caring. Thank you so much for coming on today's episode of the Fireside Chat. And we'll talk to you all in the next one. Well, it sounds like the tenants hit your rental property sure know how to throw a great party. You just wish they wouldn't throw so many parties on Tuesdays until 4 a.m. And if they could pay the rent on time, that would be nice too. Being a landlord can be stressful, but it doesn't have to be. Let renters warehouse handle the hard part of property management for you like finding quality tenants you can trust. renters warehouse manages thousands of single family homes and specializes in locating reliable tenants at the right price for your property, usually in a matter of days. 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