Honey Badger Radio
The Manosphere's seedy underbelly revealed, Lauren Southern speaks out | Maintaining Frame 110
"The Manosphere's City Underbelly Revealed." Lauren Southern speaks out. I am your host, Alison Demon, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. I know, I switched it up a bit, I did the title first. - Oh, that was interesting. - Yes, I aim to be interesting. Maintaining frame number 110, and with me, as you can hear, is Brian, and we will be discussing Lauren Southern spilling the tea on the manosphere, as it were. See what she has to say, and if it's anything we haven't heard before. As always, if you want to send a message at any point throughout the show, you want to tell us your thoughts, you want to explain something, you want to correct us, whatever you can do still at feedthebadger.com/justthetip, you get the full benefit of sending your comment in a way that doesn't put it through YouTube's comment thresher, and we get the full benefit of whatever funds you send us, so it's a win-win. So maybe not for YouTube, but it's a win-win for us and you. So, feedthebadger.com/justthetip to feedthebadger.com/justthetip to send us those messages and tips, and also the fundraiser is live at feedthebadger.com/support. I know I've been teasing this for the last week or so, and if you want to support the show, you can do so there. And right now, I have the option for you to get a poster, a silk screen limited edition poster, the very, that was limited edition silk screen prints or prints period, those are the very first NFTs. So there you go, we're offering, as a thank you for our supporters, silk screen posters at feedthebadger.com/support for support, basically, you support, you get a poster, that's how it works, at least for this leg of the fundraiser, how badly have I screwed that up, do people understand what I'm saying? - I think so. - I think so. - We're doing our fundraiser, it says to let us keep doing what we're doing, we're offering some shirts, are these people buy, or no, I'm sorry, posters, posters, silk screen posters. So, you're getting something else and feedthebadger.com/support, feedthebadger.com/justthetip, right? Send us a message, so. Okay, well, I mean, feedthebadger.com/support, if you want to get a poster, designs will change monthly, and feedthebadger.com/justthetip if you want to send us a message. That's how it works, I think, that's good. I think we have conveyed information, hopefully, maybe the chat will correct us, and they'll say that, nope, that was just five minutes (mimics babbling) like the grownups on the peanuts. (mimics babbling) - Or the aliens? (mimics babbling) - I guess that does actually convey information. - It does, it is binary. It is information. - Well, they have theorized that binary would be the way that we would talk to. - Aliens. - Aliens, yeah. So maybe that's what Sesame Street was ahead of its time. It was even. - Well, they probably knew that. - Since speculating in inter-stellar communication. All right, well, shall we just... - Yeah, let's get into it. So we're looking at-- - Not getting a chase, you know, I mean, not really because we can't at this point since we've weirdered quite a bit, but we could get to it. - Yeah, let's get to it. So we were looking at this video. This was a request, right? Sent by one of our supporters, patrons. - Mm, yeah. Oh, wait, am I muted? No, I'm not muted. - No, I can hear you. Yeah, no, I can hear you. - No, no, no, yeah. We got this request sent by Quran's "The Great Indoors." There's like, he has like three screen names that I have to remember, which one he's going by. - He's just constantly dodging the feds. And so he has to have multiple aliases, you know? - Exactly, never know where he's living or what he's called. All right, so yeah, this was sent to us by "The Great Indoors." And he is supporting for, I think, 500. So thank you, "Great Indoors," for sponsoring this video. And also, I think he's getting a poster once we iron all of that out. So, and again, if you want to help, be the Badger.com/support. But yes, thank you to "Great Indoors" for sponsoring this topic. - Yes, so this topic-- - Yeah, this topic is, this is Lauren Southern on trigger nomotry, because these guys are, they're so good for this kind of like mid-content that has enough clout that it remains extremely popular and somehow prestigious, although there isn't much of substance there. So here we are, and look, I know it sounds like I'm throwing shade, I kind of am a little bit because these guys annoy me, and Lauren Southern's been annoying me a lot lately, and I know that she was like totally one of us once, but I think that things in her life have changed to the point where she has become a less sympathetic figure by her own action. So anyway, let's look at this, I'm sorry to be so mean, but yup. - Just interrupting your meanness, the image is not changing to you when you speak, is that-- - Well, by design, 'cause I'm getting ready to start the video, I'm turning the iMacros on now, but I wanna people to see what we're looking at. So-- - Yeah, but as of right now, on shorts, I just wanna give you a heads up. Right now-- - It's just the video. - No, actually, it's just like people's sweaters. - Legs, yeah, I see it, I see it, I see it. It's feet. - This is a very, this is a very feet focused stream today, guys. - So a little bit of fetish going on there. But we haven't said anything of significance yet. - People have bug fetishes, like-- - Yeah, I'm sure they do. I'm sure there's something for everybody. - Now inbox will be just stuffed to brim with. - You brought this on yourself? - Evidence of mug fetish, okay, all right, let's go. - Okay, so anyway, let's play the video. What section do you just go to the beginning? You wanna play a little bit of the beginning, and then-- - Sure, yeah, like it's-- - Just get, it's like the teaser bit. Okay, we're gonna start playing it now then, okay? - What happens to these mugs? - This is something I haven't talked about at all publicly yet, but I've been-- - This is a very avant-garde, it's no-- - A lot of the image-- - Sad music? - Oh, there she is. - There she is. - Yeah, yeah, sad music. If you're looking at the shorts, you're not gonna see as much because the shorts format. I mean, I could fit the whole screen, but it's gonna be really small. If you want me to do that, okay. - I don't know, maybe when they're like full screen, or we just give the mug fetishists what they want, you know? - Yeah, I think so. - I mean, when they do the-- - What they call it. - They have like, they have basically three cameras. They have one that's a full shot, which is this one. They have one that's on the trigonometry guys, and there's one that's on Lauren Southern. So when it's on them, we'll be able to see more of that. So, all right, but let's play the rest of this trailer. So we got sad music, violins, Lauren Southern saying, I've never told anyone this before. Very sad stuff, guys, very sad. Okay, so let's listen. Internet narratives about how people ought to live their lives, you kind of embodied some of those ideas in your own life, and it went spectacularly wrong. - It's the reality pill, not the red pill, not the blue pill, not any of these things. Towards the end of our marriage, I found a list in my husband's office of every single media figure that-- - My pos-- - Oh, oh, by the way, for those of you who are joining us for something other than the mug content, she married a fad. She was a counterculture figure that married a fad. You know, I guess she was really capturing that kind of Romeo and Juliet across enemy lines kind of quality there, but it didn't work out apparently. But she's not in jail, so that's interesting. - Yeah. But her life was still really hard, guys, and this fad, she married totally an example of what the red pill/manosphere/right is all about. The fad that she married. That's like, I'm serious, that's her whole, like I had this bad experience with a federal agent. This means that all the people on the right, the manosphere, the red pill, et cetera, they're all the problem because I fucked up, right? - Yeah, well, I mean, but I'm just trying to get through the logic of, I married a federal agent, something, something, the manosphere. - Right, exactly. - Wouldn't the federal agent be more an example of federal agents? - You would think. - You would think. - Definitely an example of statists, but that's just a thing, right, so. - Okay, let's continue. I just wanted to give you that context. - Mm-hmm, here we go. - I had ever written a negative article about me, both right wing and left wing. And I was told that this was a contingency list of people he would contact to hurt my reputation if I disobeyed in the marriage. - That is asshole behavior. That's like, that's abusive. - Yes? - What? So he had a list of people who had ever written anything bad about her, right? And interestingly enough, she's now going to the centrist. Oh, I'm being dissed by the left and the right. Anything bad about her? Okay, but they're already writing bad things about you. What does it matter? What is he gonna say? Ah, she puts the toilet paper in the wrong way. Like, what the hell is he gonna reveal about you that they're not already taking pot shots at? - Well, she's, I think she's crafting, or she's done this in her mind. You know, I'm not trying to imply anything nefarious or sinister, but look, I watched most of this video and most of it is a Lauren Southern pity party. Like, what was me? Everyone's mean to me. This is why I'm taking the reality pill. I'm reality-pilled, guys. Did you know, did you guys realize that there's nuance in the world and sometimes things aren't black and white? Did you know that? Did you know that like the internet can, if you like follow every piece of advice, you take from strangers on the internet, that sometimes it doesn't work out in your favor? We gotta blame somebody for this, but it's not me. I'm not blaming me, you know. - I'm just like, you married a Fed and then the Fed threatened you with like stuff. Like, was he deep under the purse or something? - Yeah, she didn't, she supposedly didn't know that he was a Fed. - I'm curious what his side, what he would say to all of us. - You know, I would like to know that too. I would like to know that too. - It's because he was saying, if you don't want a Bay in the marriage, well, okay. - Well, we say right wing Fed, that's different. Why are they against the right wing? - No, no, no, no. - Did they know they have a sleeper agent among them? - No, he wasn't a right wing Fed, he was just a Fed, which means he was likely working for the state, which means he was a statist, which means he's a leftist, really, I mean, that's what leftists are. They're a statist, Allison. But he didn't have a political affiliation. He was just the guy that she wanted to marry. And it turned out, according to her, that he was, you know, controlling or something, an abusive. - But Fed's have been, like, basically they've put the right on a terrorist watch list. And now she's saying that- - She was on a watch list. - Yeah, she was on a watch list. There's this federal agent who she was married to, who is right wing, I guess. - Well, why don't you just tell the feds that? You'll probably get fired and put on a watch list. Because it's bizarre, like, it's just been sort of convoluted and strange. - I want to be fair. Lauren Souther never said what his politics were. She never talked about that. - Yeah, but she's essentially insinuating that the reason why he kept this list of people who... God, why would you not be like, yeah, no, I'm not having children with someone anyway, but she kept this list of outlets, of people that ever said anything bad about her and apparently was going to give them ambiguous information that would ruin her reputation with people who already hated her, which doesn't make sense on the surface. And also, what the hell would he have to do on you? Like, what were you doing in your marriage? Like, they already hate you. They already hate your politics. What is he going to reveal about you unless it's personal indiscretions? Do you engage in personal indiscretions? So you're just going to lie about that? Like, did you take... Anyway, it just, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense. And then what I'm getting at is, she's saying this fed demanded a right-wing relationship in which she was the surrendered wife, which I don't know, like, that's coded right-wing now. Well, obviously then his politics are right-wing. Well, go out him with his employer. Like, isn't she just damaging the hell out of his career at the feds now? Like, they're going to find out, oh, look, this guy, he believes in right-wing sibilists. You know, he wants a surrendered wife. Isn't that terrorism now? Like, and again, where does he get to say his side? I mean, I can't believe I'm standing up for a fed, but really, doesn't he get to talk about what happened? Or does he completely silenced? Well, she goes out and says all of this about their relationship and puts it on trial in public with him not being able to comment back. Yeah, sure, it's abusive if it happened. Does he get the opportunity to rejoin it? Is he going to get a spot on trigonometry to say his side? 'Cause otherwise, this is just a star court of this guy. This is just basically holding court with one side, which is in of itself very, very unethical. Yes, but also, this isn't even, it's not this guy that's on trial. This is the reason for this video, is that it's the entire red pill manosphere that's on trial because they're the ones that turned on Lauren Southern when this all happened. And that's the thing. Like she's, well, we haven't even gotten past the intro, but I just want to point out that the fed, the whole thing with this ex is really just the precedent that is being set so that she can make claims about the people that she used to, I guess, fuck with, like roll with, to make them look bad. And she's done this, she's made videos about this, and I've already expressed my frustration because I don't think it's fair. I think she's claiming that people are being really black and white with their thinking while she's being black and white with her thinking about the reality of it. And I mean, these are people that, this is a person that slept on Karen's couch. And she probably would say, I don't include you guys, but that doesn't matter, Lauren, because you're not making it explicit, number one. Number two, you say the red pill, and that's just like, that's just everybody. Yeah, it might be the people that you don't like. Maybe it's the people who came after you, whoever that might be, that might be in those circles, like Rollo or something. But it also is people like us because we get lumped in with that too. And this is a kind of guilt by association irresponsibly. And that's why I get annoyed with that because it's almost like you are more interested in how you look at the other end of this thing than whatever the truth is. And because you make the claim, Lauren Southern, that this is all about like, oh guys, we're just chasing clout and money 'cause that's like one of her last video, oh, you can make a lot of money if you like shit on women or whatever. While also engaging in your own clout chasing with these people, like this is the thing, like maybe I'll say this for later. So we'll play some more of the video. - Well, I just wanted to, before you go. - Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. - 'Cause I've been sort of waiting. The funniest part of this is for 10 years, or actually not 10 years, but since Gigi and Vancouver, Gigi and Ben, where we met Lauren Southern, like I think Karen met her earlier, we met Lauren. - Yeah, for the women's march thing, the slut walk. - The Vivi and Ben, right, or Gigi and Ben. And we had a picture taken with her. And from 2015, when that happened to like four years later, and it died down during COVID, there was a feminist poster, a fairly large, which a fairly large following, I'm not gonna name him, but he would bring up that photo of me with Lauren Southern to discredit me. For years, for years. I wonder if he's still gonna do it. - Who? - Oh, you don't wanna mention, is it a journalist? You can just say it's a journalist activist. - It's just one of those floating people who somehow always become an expert on the men's rights movement. - Oh, I know we're talking about. - They would always bring up this photo and say, "Look at you, look at you posing with this Nazi fascist handmaiden." - Yeah, guilt by association. - Guilt by association. Like literally that she was used as guilt by association for me and Brian and Hannah and Karen. People would use her mug with us to say, you're just as bad as Lauren Southern because of your association with her. And it's just like, wow, how the worm has turned, huh? - Yeah, well again. - Remember now what I would say. Like, I mean, I think he even used it, he even used it when we had the International Conference on Men's Issues in 2019. This individual tweeted this photo and said, "Here are they are standing by known fascist Nazi handmaiden, Lauren Southern." And I'm like, I think I just didn't respond to it. I think I just didn't respond to it because what do you do? Like, I'm not gonna be like, oh my God, I disavow. Oh, I disappear. 'Cause then you're always playing the guilt by association game. So when I was being demonized by association with Lauren Southern, I didn't play that game. I didn't say, oh, wow, no, I definitely don't agree with Lauren Southern and her horrible concepts and ideas and her racist attitudes. I never said anything like that. I don't know what, I don't even remember what I said, but I'm pretty sure I either defended her or I said, this is guilt by association. I'm not playing that game. - Mm-hmm. - But, well, thanks, thanks, Lauren. Thanks, Lauren Southern, thank you. - Yeah. - Great, great, great, yeah. All right, let's keep going. - All right, yeah, well, we're gonna play the rest of the intro, I guess, and then we can look at a section. - Behavior 101. This idea that you have in the Red Pill community that no matter what demand does, the woman is supposed to just, that's not how it's supposed to be. Lauren Southern, welcome to-- - Hey, so for the record, nobody ever says that. This is a, these guys pissed me off for different reasons. So he says that this idea in the Red Pill that women are just supposed to be the servants to men. That's just not the way it is. Like, nobody says that. Nobody says that. Like, even, no, I'm sorry, it just doesn't happen. I don't give a fuck. Like, this is like really, you're just straw manning the shit out of these people. - If they do, okay, this is something that I've realized, and you might disagree with me, Brian. If they do, if there is a part of the Red Pill Manosphere who says this crap, well, they got their corresponding female counterpart among feminists. I would say all feminists because, or at least all feminists who believe that men oppress women. Because what is that except asserting moral dominance over an entire class of people, right? So what is that, is that demanding that they constantly serve you to, to do, oh, what's that word? They serve you in order to redeem themselves for their sin, okay? So those two, if you're seeing the rise of men who say exactly the mirror opposite of what feminism has said to men. Oh, well, like you're seeing your other half. You guys deserve each other, honestly. So these two sides, I know you hate the centrism thing, but these two sides, I mean, I just recently read a tweet by a very popular tweeter that said that men should live in, essentially, what she termed military barracks, but they can't actually leave it, so it's more like a prison. And they just get bust in to do the utilities while women live real lives in the city. So essentially what they're saying is men should be a slave class, a literal slave class, okay? - At least I were betting it. - You wanna look at, you wanna look at the nasty shit being said, okay, fine. You got the red pill bros saying it about women. You got feminists saying it about men, right? It's interesting to see that suddenly feminists are getting some of their own shit thrown back at them and everybody's going nuts over the men who are doing it. Whereas I'm like, you know what? How long were men supposed to just swallow this crap? And not just swallow this crap, but swallow this crap in a narrative where they're told that they aren't swallowing the crap because they are the ones creating it. Like literally you're shoveling crap into men's mouths and saying you're the ones creating this crap we're shoveling into your mouth. Like it's not just expecting men to stand, to endure this abuse, but gaslighting men by saying, you're the ones who are doing the abuse. Like it's just, it's infuriating. And as much as I don't agree with like this idea that they're saying that red pill, I don't know if red pill bros really do. I rarely see it, but I have seen some unpleasant things that red pill bros say. So I'm not gonna say they don't. But in so far as I'm seeing all this, I'm seeing the coarsening of the discourse and I don't necessarily agree with what you might term extremist red pill bros. But on the other hand, nothing I said stopped what feminists were doing and women were, women on misinterest, women on the internet and misadress men on the internet were saying about men. Nothing I said, nothing, when I went up and I said, hey, you know, that's really mean. What happened to people, the people involved, what happened to me and what happened to the people involved in Honey Badger Radio? We got kicked out of a conference. You know, potentially got kicked out of a country for saying, hey, that's mean. Maybe it's not fair. Maybe you should stop asserting things that are patently untrue about men. You know, when you frame it that way, it doesn't matter. You get kicked out, you get censored, you get put on a watch list, right? And I have done that for years now. Brian has done that for years now. Karen has done that for years now. Hannah has done that for years now. Hey, this is mean and unfair, it is unjust. Let's stop it. And nobody listened. You all did everything in your power to ignore and censor us. And I'm not just the main big YouTubers like this, YouTube commentators, you wouldn't even touch us. You wouldn't even give us a platform. And all we're saying is, hey, that's mean, stop it. And now we see the rise of the red pill bros giving a bit of what they've got back. What are we supposed to feel? We're supposed to now go on your side and say, hey, you know, you're being mean. Really? You know, honestly, I think it's just the consequence of actually having ignored being so cruel to men for so long. There's now a critical mass of men who just don't give a blind fuck. And I don't even mean the guys who are engaging in sort of abusive or statements or saying all this stuff that gets women riled up. I mean, the men who are just checking out, the men who would have at one point said, hey, bro, don't, who would have actually exerted a negative social pressure on the assholes, which, you know, have always existed. You know, they're just checking out. And why should they continue to fight this fight? Why should they? What all they get is more cruelty. All right, so you know what? You guys deserve each other. It is Godzilla versus Mothra. And I am just, I'm sitting this out. Okay. - All right, so then we're not watching this video? - No, no, we're watching the video. - Okay. - All right. - Not literally. - Oh, okay, okay. I'm a little confused. So, all right. So I'll just say about this about the, all right, we'll just jump into the first bit. So there's Lawrence controversial political past, punished for being first. Lawrence take on immigration. I don't care about that. My trad wife went wrong, my trad life went wrong. Okay, sure. - Wasn't it really though? - Let's hear that. - Like, don't they have to be like liberals to even be in the government in the first bit? - Well, sort of. But I think that, again, we have to understand that Lawrence Southern is measuring her personal experience and projecting it onto the world, thinking that it's everyone's experience. And she's creating the boundaries of this and saying this is my, what I lived through, and this is the reality of everybody else because of it. I married Lindsey, and the fact that we stayed together in her mind is a miracle, going on eight years now in November, and has nothing to do with the fact that we got to know each other for a while, sussed each other out, figured out that we had very similar values, and that we were able to get along really well, and then we just said, let's get married, and that was it, right? And it hasn't, I mean, nothing's perfect. There's always gonna be issues we get into, but for the most part, despite everything, I had cancer and all of that. Yeah, Boogie, I had actually had cancer unlike you, and yet we still stuck it out. And if it went, if somehow things go south, I'm not gonna go on the internet and say, "Marish doesn't work for anyone," (laughs) and it's a lie, and it's like, you know what I'm saying? It's just one of these things, man. You have an experience, and you want everyone else to think that your experience is proof, it's like evidence against the norm in some way. All right, well, I think she's making it evident it's against the tribe life, but there are some count-founds. What does she mean by that, though? Like, what does that even mean? That being the surrendered wife or some crap, but how does she count that? No, but she didn't do that. Yeah, go ahead. Well, apparently she's asserting that she did that, but there are some count-founds here. You married a Fed, and you are a counter-cultural icon on a watch list. At what point did you stop? Like, do the estrogen for a second here? Let's engage the frontal lobes, right? This might be a problem. Like, is it really the fact that you had a traditional relationship, whatever that means? Or was it because he was a Fed and your counter-cultural or were a counter-cultural icon on a watch list? Like, at what point did you say, maybe our general goals and values and virtues in life are not quite aligned? Except, I guess she found the one Fed. And you know what's really funny is, again, even though it feels awful that they're just talking to her, they're not giving his side, he just disappears? Was he a honeypot? It's possible. But again, the conversation about this specific man-- Yes, it's like, OK, guys, her experience applies to women marrying Feds who may or may not be honeypots who are pretending to be right-wing, OK? This is a very narrow applicability to reality. It's not reality, pill. I don't have a really good sense of when things might go awry, shall we say. This is Looney Tunes level of lack of situational awareness. Well, it's a lack of, again, I think it's a lack of personal responsibility. But let's listen to this trad-like disaster, OK? Significantly more complex than any sort of list goal. Well, one of the things that Mary Harrington-- Again, yeah, she mentions that, you know, did you guys know that relationships and marriages are more complicated than a listicle on a website? I know it's crazy. It's crazy. You didn't consider this. So you're welcome in advance. If you go online, you look at listicles, and you think, oh, this must be what real life is, yeah, it's not true. I know, I also am shocked by this revelation. Oh, good work. OK, anyway, let's play some more. She did a piece with you in Unheard, which was one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you. And one of the things that she was highlighting is, effectively, that a lot of the internet narratives about how people ought to live their lives. You know, you have the red pill for men. This is how you should treat women or the right-wing type of stuff. And then there's equivalent from a sort of radical feminist and whatever. Don't marry the best. It's from the listicle. If only, if only someone had published a listicle of all the reasons why you shouldn't marry a Fed. It's the one thing-- One of the others would have been saved. It's the one thing Buzzfeed should have made. That was the appropriate Fed's if they were Disney princesses. Like, that's the thing we were-- At least other would have been saved. And none of it would have happened. Like, anyway, let's keep going. I just-- I got to keep bringing that up. I know, I know. We got it, though. We got it. OK, let's play some more. The way she tells it, at least, you kind of embodied some of those ideas in your own life. And it went spectacularly wrong, I think. It's fair to say. Yes, that is fair to say. Now, there have-- OK, did you embody the idea? You basically declared yourself a surgeon and then went into surgery. There's a lot-- even though I don't-- Well, we shouldn't. I don't advocate for so-called traditional-- it's not that I don't advocate it. I just don't advocate or not advocate for it. I mean, if that's the way you want to live your life, that's the way you want to live your life. But it seems like there's more to it than just-- Are you doing the trad thing correctly? Yeah. Well, look, there's religion to it. There's belief. There's a whole context of a book that has a whole bunch of wisdom in it that you might want to study. That kind of thing. You might want to be part of a community. You might not want to marry a fed. Like, that might be-- like I said, a confounding factor. OK, all right. I know what you're paying for. All right, I know what you're paying for. You want me to shut up so we can continue? Yeah, because I want to hear her actual-- what she's going to actually say. Let's respond to what she says, OK? OK, so-- OK, yeah. Then criticisms out there that Lauren, you weren't the perfect trad wife. You were a boss babe out there working. You didn't get married to someone who lived near you. You didn't-- you didn't trad perfectly well. And therefore, you aren't the best example to show that these bindings. No, that's-- yeah, this is-- see, this is-- OK, what are you-- this is a logical fallacy that she's doing. She's saying, people on my side-- because she wants to throw them under the bus-- accuse me of not doing this thing absolutely perfect. And that's-- and because I couldn't live up to that standard, I guess it was doomed to fail. No one is saying that. Like, nobody normal-- nobody normal-- I'm sure some weirdo is saying it somewhere. But nobody normal thinks that you have to follow a very strict-- like, walk a very thin line. This is feminist argumentation, by the way. This is exactly the rant at the end of the Barbie movie, where the girl-- where the woman talks about how you have to be this, but not too much. You have to be this other thing and not this thing. This is exactly the kind of woman logic stuff that gets women like you clowned on, because you think that people are telling you that you have to meet a specific standard, and you're pretending-- you're straw-manning that argument. Like, you know, anybody would know that keeping a-- any relationship is not requiring a checklist of specific behaviors. It is about, essentially, if you want to be a good woman, just bring man-- just bring peace into your man's life and support him, like a cheerleader, and everything will be fine. And also, have the ability to discern whether or not a man is good for you. You know, like, whether or not he's a fed. But not just that. Like, you know, there's this thing where women do this thing, where they end up breaking up with a guy or getting a divorce. And when they're asked why, they will say he changed. And I don't think that this is true in most cases. I don't think that's a thing that happens. I think that generally people don't change. It's just that their partners were not paying attention when they were dating them. And they just jumped into something too quickly. You know, Stephon Molinue used to be on YouTube, and he used to do call-in shows. I mean, I think he's still on the internet somewhere, maybe a bit shoot or something. And he used to take calls. And very, very frequently, people would call in, women would call in, having relationship problems, wanting to break up with guys, wanting to get a divorce, whatever, or they would talk about their history. And very frequently, they would talk about their childhood. And what would often come up is they would blame their father or their stepfather for being abusive, for being mean, for being all these things. And Molinue would always say, what about the mother? And they would have nothing bad to say about their mothers. In most cases, like 90% of cases. And he would say, well, at the very least, you have to consider that your mother, even if this man, this man who was your stepfather or your father was abusive. Even if that's true, you have to look at why your mother chose to sleep with him or marry him. Like, why? And this is the thing, like, women are not asked to be discerning when it comes to men. They just take whatever, like, sparks their vajayjay, like whatever makes them wet. And then they just go out with that guy. And then that guy turns out to be a piece of shit. And then they say, well, this is what all men are like, because they don't see other men. They're not people, right? So Lauren Southern got all tingly over this guy and then jumped into something. Didn't get to know him, obviously, because she didn't realize he was a fed. And then it goes south, and then her overall, where she lands at the end is, oh, well, I guess the trad life thing is just bullshit then. And it's like, no, you fucked up. You fucked up. This is the thing, like, this is what I need. Women have to understand that, like, not every man is a catch. And maybe you're measuring this by the wrong criteria. And you should be more discerning. You should be looking for something else. If you want something stable, find a man that's stable. If you want something that's just gonna, like, make you hot and bothered, then go ahead. Go out with the Andrew Tate guy, if you want. You know? But don't pretend like you can turn one into the other. And that's the thing, like, Lauren Southern will never do this. Okay, she chose a man that excited her, and then had a baby with him and got married to him. He lived in a different country. And then when it didn't work out, she was like, "Oh, this is the trad cons lie to me." No, no, dude, that's your fault. Like, I'm sorry, but am I wrong? That's your fault. - Well, I mean, also, like, I have a doubt that she necessarily really invested in the trad con life, and I have no interest in defending it. Like, I'm not, I'm not, I don't live a trad con life. I don't pretend to live a trad con life. None of, I don't think anybody who knows me expects me to advocate for it. And I don't not advocate for it. If you, if that is the way that you want to live your life, go for it, right? But I don't think that this is fair on a logical level to say that this circumstance is a condemnation of that lifestyle. Or, and the other thing is that the red pillars, I don't think they really advocate for a true traditional lifestyle either. Like, really. - I mean, they're a mixed bag. Like, I think that, like, okay, I'll put it like this. And this is not, I wouldn't say this is a defense. This is just like me being real about what the supposed Manosphere POA red pill part of the community is. They're essentially very, very sexually successful guys trying to give advice to guys who are not going to be as successful as them. So you have guys that are not interested in the trad life giving advice to guys who are. And those guys are hoping to use the skills I'll learn to find like the one and not necessarily to like sleep with as many women as possible. Because most of those guys aren't going to. And I'm not, it's not an insult against them. It's just that, you know, they're not in that top 10%. So they're probably just like, well, look, I just need to learn how to, you know, get right with my money or, you know, like, invest better or get in shape or whatever, whatever things they want to learn, how to talk to women, et cetera. And it's mostly, I would guarantee you that the majority of those guys, they also didn't have a masculine role model in their life because we're three generations in to essentially creating the, making the growing up without a dad thing, the norm. And so most of these guys don't have a father or, you know, they don't know him or whatever. And so they're like trying to navigate this environment. Again, this is another thing that I hate. And look, I'm not defending the red pill guys because I'm a fan. I'm just saying the truth of the matter is that the most of the men who are in the manosphere are there because the regular world does nothing for them. And they're looking for solutions and they're looking for answers. And these are the only people who offer them anything. And even if they're the standards that those guys are, or not standards, but the way that the actual content creators, like the fresh and fits and stuff, the way that they live their life is sort of out of the reach of the average man. The average man is still looking to them because there's nobody else. And people like this, like Lauren Southern and the trigonometry guys, they're gonna shit on those guys and they're doing it from their position of their own clout. 'Cause these trigonometry guys, they make good money. You know, they probably are married with kids and everything else. So it's easy to point at the guys that are like, you know, they're directionless and they're frustrated and they're trying to figure things out. And they're just, you know what you should be, what you should do is what like, you know, most men have been trying to do for at least a couple of generations that has given them nothing. You know, happy wife, happy life. Just, just, you know, been the need to her. Just do what she says. Don't try not to get divorced. It's fine, you know, try anyway. We know the data is not in your favor but you're not allowed to be upset about it. And that's just bullshit. Like these guys are allowed to be upset about it. And it's, you know what, if they're going to people like Fresh and Fit or whatever for advice, that's not, that's not their fault. That's not Fresh and Fit's fault. That's on you guys because you didn't provide them with anything except that, well, just try anyway, bro. And that's just not enough, sorry. But that's just the thing of these guys are not helpful. Lauren Southern is not helpful. Like she's just saying, oh, it looks like that didn't work, oh, well, I guess we don't have any answers because my life is a mess. And I know you guys are beneath me because otherwise you'd be doing better but you can't be because I'm doing bad. Therefore, no one could be doing as well as I am, right? It's, you know, sorry, but it's just, it's cringe. This is the, I couldn't make it through this video. It's so cringe. - Let me put it this way. The men who are attracted to this are attracted to it because they think that the trad wife life is how you get married, right? And how you stay married and how you have a happy life. - Who says that? - Happy wife. Well, I mean, it's, if there was another way, if there was a perception of another way for men to get married, that the idea of marriage is associated with traditionalism now, right? So that- - Well, yeah, like you're basically a trad because you're married, right? Or even if you're not like my mom and my father or not, they never officially got married. They just like said that they were, but even then they were in a monogamous relationship. They lived together, you know, so like they were basically married. And that's, yeah, that's trad by today's standards. - Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say that are these men attracted to this because they believe or they truly want a trad life or even to have a woman adopt a trad life or because they think that that is the main avenue to marriage now. That's their possibility of marriage. And also like, I mean, I had this sort of conversation of people in the discord. I find it very rich and maybe you'll disagree, but someone like Andrew Tate speaks out against degeneracy when degeneracy is what got him as platform. So that's something that I know it's a bit of a segue, but I'm just saying that it's even the situation where a lot of these red pill influencers so-called don't even live the life that they're espousing. And they wouldn't even have the platformer that they have without having existed in what they would consider a degenerate society. So it's like, I totally, in some ways I totally agree that a lot of this stuff is not very healthy, but what's the alternative like you were saying? What's the fricking alternative? - Well, yeah, I mean, you're not offering anything. You're just saying like, you know, because look, for a lot of these guys, I think the majority of guys, okay? So you're a man, let's say, you're a Zoomer, you're like 20-something, you have a job, you're not in your bomber's basement with Cheeto on your beard or whatever. Like none of these, you know, negative stereotypes, you're just a regular guy, you're just a regular guy, you have a job, you're working on your credit score, you're decently well-educated, and you can't find a woman because the modern dating market is an absolute trash fire and you're trying to navigate this without getting into trouble. You don't wanna get me too, you don't wanna get arrested, you don't wanna get, you know, some crazy chick attacking you, breaking her nail and calling the cops. You're trying to avoid, navigate all of these minefills. You don't wanna end up divorced, you wanna end up losing your kids, you don't wanna end up getting, you know, into, and these are all real problems and concerns that men have. And the truth is, is that the environment, the social environment, it essentially not just permits women to do this, it encourages women to do this, to use men in these ways, to use them as money, to, you know, grab that bag while securing their own bag. Like this is not unusual, that women are encouraged to be entitled beyond compare and men are being told by the sort of white noise of our culture that women deserve that, that men are the reason, like women are oppressed by men, like that is, so men have to somehow gain favor with women while being aware of their own privilege. And like, how do you do that? Like if I was like 20-something, I wouldn't wanna bother at all. And so you have men are either choosing to walk away completely, which a lot of them are doing, and it's growing in number, or you get men that are like, well, I'm gonna try and figure this out, because I don't think it's, you know, they have an inkling, they have a gut instinct that tells them that this can't be something that's completely out of their control, because of course, men wanna feel like they have some agency and they, some control over their destiny. So they go to what, they go to advice. They try to find people who have done it, who are an example that they wanna follow, and that's where these, these sort of red pill influencers come in and they're helping them. And you know what, no one else is. No one else, like, I mean, you can say we do, but I'm saying we don't have the reach. Like we're not, we don't have the cloud. - I'm gonna get in there and say why, right? You say the red pill influences are helping them. I'm not entirely certain that that's the case. They are fulfilling a desire. I'm not sure if they're helping it. The thing is that the reason why they have the cloud is because there is, or they give the perception that following them will result in getting married and having children or finding a woman. Or they say, if you do this, then you will get the life that you want. And I think in a lot of ways, 'cause I think that we would have a larger following if we said, you know, the way that you get women is by being a men's issues advocate. I mean, that's absurd, right? But that's what they do. - Well, that's not what we do. That's not what we do. Like, that's not our focus. But if we did do that, if we said to this vast ocean of very desperate men, yeah, you know what? We have exactly the oil and vinegar combination that if you put on your salad, we'll attract a woman to you. Guess what we would be able to sell in droves and multitudes? You know, like we have the exact, I don't know, what is the code like the hell, hell, hell divers? Arrow, up, down, you know? - Oh, we have that. We've cracked the code. - Up, right, down, down, down. - Yeah, we've cracked the code. And if you just, you know, with five easy payments of $9.99, we'll send you the code that will bring a woman into your life. If we did stuff like that, we would probably have more clout. You know, we would probably, or if alternatively, you went on the other end of the spectrum and said, well, men are totally oppressing you ladies and you do not need one and you should be so happy with your single lifestyle. You know, if we were female single lifestyle influencers, you got those two poles that are making a ton of money, but when you look at it, it's terrifying because what they're making money off of is the destruction of the breeding colony. Is the slow rotting and degradation of the breeding colony, of our society's inability to get people parabonded, which is critical, ah, ah, sorry, I've got something in my eye, so I'm crying a little. The last episode, there was something I wanted to say, the average, our society does not get the average man and woman in relationships anymore. It doesn't do the things necessary to get that happening. Instead, what it does is it is constructed a system in which the only people who sort of win are the women who are okay with being number five in a harem of 10 to one of the top 10% of men. That is the system that our society is now incentivizing. It is the system that it is built now to support, right? That is what we're doing. That is what we are creating. It is the exact opposite of a breeding colony. And of course, eventually, everything that requires a breeding colony to exist will collapse. But my overall point is that I think the sexlessness among women is now being driven because there's a lot of women who don't wanna be part of that, but they don't know what they want. So they just imbibe this content about single them. And it's like both sides are getting a narrative in which they're not actually dealing with the problems that they have. It's palliative. For the men's side, it's like an alcoholic saying, "Well, I could quit anytime if I wanted." And on the women's side, it is hiding further and further into their shells, into their fear of the unknown, into their fear of having to live up and grow up in order to be part of a relationship. 'Cause that's what relationships do. You have to allow a bit of your individuality. You have to, like a romance, is about two individuals putting the relationship ahead of their respective selfish interests. And that's true about a romantic relationship. It's true about like buddy love cop relationships. That's what that story is about. You could see it in Master and Commander or the Terror, this kind of attitude of, I am going to overcome some aspect of myself because I put the relationship ahead of my own very limited self-interest. That requires courage. It requires self-analysis. It requires understanding yourself. It requires being a whole human being and being able to take a risk. And women are running from that and they're consuming content that justifies their cowardice at the same time as men are consuming content that says, "Oh, hey, wow, if you go out in a full moon "and do the jiggy jiggy dance, "a woman will pop out of the ground for you." You know, that kind of thing. Like just ridiculous belief that they can somehow, through these actions now take on the entire destruction of the system and just manufacture a woman. You know what I mean? I mean, it's possible. I'm just saying that I don't think that the red pill bros are really giving them genuine insight into how to overcome this problem. They're just giving them another way of saying, "Well, if I do X, Y, and Z, "somehow I will be able to manage it. "I'll just get out of this. "Somehow it'll work." You see what I'm saying? You know, and it's-- - Yeah, but I wasn't-- Sorry. - Go ahead. I was just saying, I wasn't trying to make this about what we were doing that they weren't doing. I was simply saying that the men are looking for answers. These guys are providing something, some direction. - Yes. - And even if it isn't ultimately what they need, even if it isn't ultimately helpful, they're not getting alternatives from anyone else. Instead, they're just getting attacked. Even for seeking help that might not actually be what they actually need, but it doesn't matter because they're being attacked for it, right? They're being criticized. The red pill's getting thrown under the bus. At every turn, which includes us, whether we are a part of that or not, doesn't matter because we're all connected. It's irrelevant. And people who knew us, this reminds me of, I mean, I know that she has since like, sort of mentioned us in a better light, but she went ahead and did something very similar when she was making her video, right, where it was like, oh my God, the red pill, the man's fear is just as bad as the feminist. We're still hearing this. We're still getting this message. It's the same thing on both sides. And Lauren Sutter's doing it too. She's now, she's like, I'm reality pill. Like this is like, you know, and it's just not the case. And instead, what's happening is you have, you have, yes, there are competing narratives. Yes, women get one and men get one, but the one for women is actively anti-male and it's everywhere. The one for men is in a relatively small corner of the internet and even then it's not there specifically to make men hate women. I mean, at worst, maybe it's scapegoats women more than women are comfortable with 'cause I don't think it's like necessarily unfair. I think that there's, you know, there are women who do bad things and nobody wants to talk about it and there are men who do good things and nobody wants to talk about it. But I think that like what I'm ultimately landing at is it's not about, it's not about what we do compared to what the rest of the man's fear does. It's about where, why are men seeking this out because they need help and no one else is giving them any? And when they go here, they're being, they're still getting scolded because they went to the wrong place and what offered an alternative? What's the alternative? Do you know, I'll tell you what the alternative is. Whatever the Department of Homeland Security uses to redirect men, that's what they want. They want them to go to these, you know, good man project, male feminist spaces, you know, where men lay in pools and cry in each other's arms because they don't want them to actually seek help. Even if the help they're seeking may not be ideal. You see what I'm saying? - Yeah, well they don't want, yeah, I think you're right. It is a fundamental difference. The narrative that women are getting is one of hatred and contempt towards men. And the narrative-- - And fear. - And fear. And the narrative that men are getting is, women like this, so if you do it, they will like you. - Yeah, and also be aware of these bad things that women do. Like look out for bold diggers, for example. - Yeah, fair enough. Like there are bad women. Yeah, I get what you're saying. It's just that I think that honestly the narrative A, the narrative of men oppressed women is leading to women being more and more terrified of being in any kind of relationship with a man, which is leading to the content, like the triumphal single-dome content, which is a self-reconforcing negative thought spiral that is making it more and more difficult to find women who are in any way interested in a relationship with men has nothing to do with freedom. It has everything to do with women are choosing to lock themselves in a frickin' mental crate when it comes to men. And the problem is that, in my opinion, the red pill content is looking at this situation and saying, well, men, if you just, I don't go to the gym, do this other stuff, you can somehow strong arm your way through this situation. But the honest to God truth is that women need to man up. They need to stop being afraid and they need to stop constantly consuming narratives of fear. And it's not just because, oh, wow, you just want the trad con or you want relationships or the baby. It's because it's a lie and it ruins your life. Before we continue, I recently got into this conversation with one of the followers of some rad femme. She was the one who talked about how men should live in prisons and be busting to do all the work and then bust out. And then they could get like porn and sex dolls and all that stuff because that's what they really want. And I was talking to one of her followers and I said this in this way just to get under her skin. But I said, you put a lot of cognitive energy into because you believe that men control so much. You put a lot of cognitive energy into their opinion and trying to control them and being worried about what they do when they're with each other. And I said one of the benefits of actually recognizing men's issues is that you learn, you don't need to worry about men that much, you know? And I said it in a way that would get under her skin. I said that, you know, men don't have the power that you think they do. Therefore, you don't have to constantly be thinking about them and what they control and what they're doing outside of your, like, you know what I mean? In the hidden free mason basement, what are they up to? You know, like, it's like you don't have to think about it. You don't have to spend mental energy on it anymore because you know that first of all, men don't have that much power. And second of all, even more importantly, generally they won't use it to hurt women, you know? And you jettison all of this cognitive load and that's what women need to do. They need to realize that they're wasting their time, they're wasting their being, they're wasting who they could become on bullshit about men. And she didn't even answer after that. She's just screwed off. I'm like, wow, you really have a, you really got some convictions there. Anyway, let's get back to you. - All right, let's listen to more of Lauren's conviction. - annaries don't work. These binaries do work, you just did it wrong. That's the main criticism I've seen of that Mary Harrington article, which you know was quite emotional for me to do. I was, I couldn't have written it myself. I couldn't have published that myself. It would have been too difficult for me to talk about. But I let her do with the information what she will. And one thing I would say to that is, I have thought about this so much. What if I just didn't work at all? What if I married a local boy in my community? What if I didn't date anyone before I dated my husband? What if I followed that trad listical perfect? Would my fate have been any different? Would I not have been in that single life? - Are you talking about a listical? You weren't being, this wasn't facetious on your part? - Well, no, I think she's making fun of the notion of building a, I don't, a typical marriage. Like I don't want to call it traditional because the word traditional has, for some reason, a politically charged connotation that goes with it. But like, 'cause like, look, I know regular people that like get married and they have kids and they're not shouting to the mountaintops that they've made like a political decision. They have simply made a decision that fits their lifestyle and their desire for a certain arrangement. Sometimes the woman works and the man stays at home. But most of the time, they're either both working or the man is working. That's just the way it is. There's not, like no one's saying it has to be this way. No one is saying it has to, you know, like that if you break these rules, you won't be happy. Like literally Lauren is creating straw men and tearing them down. Like this is what they do. They create a dude or a scenario and then they tell you what that person's opinions are, make them sound absolutely ludicrous and then tear them down with a, well, obviously that's not gonna work. And it's like, but people make it work all that time. Like I said, I know people who have, you know, four or five kids and only the man works. And you know, they don't have like, they don't all have cell phones, but they are happy and they have everything they need and you make it work. So it's not like people just have a way of coming together and making it work. No one is saying there are rules, no one. No, there are like suggestions, I guess. Like, okay, here's, here is what you might do if you have a specific outcome in mind that will give you the best odds. But no one is saying you must do this. Nobody. And so Lauren is claiming, she is claiming to be held to a standard that no one is holding her to and then saying, well, look, I can't meet the standard, but no one's holding you to the standard, you know? So yeah, I mean, she's sorry, I don't know. - First of all, the thing is that isn't the trad life more about, I mean, if we're looking at a genuine trad life, isn't it more about living your life in service of God? Not, oh, if I take these 10 point listicle things, I will have the life that I want. - I mean, the 10 commandments. - But seriously, like the thing is that I'm saying that her attitude is wrong. Like you don't, you don't venture with life. As far as I can tell, looking at it from the outsider, you don't enter the life because you think that it's going to construct the perfect life for you. If you want that, go buy Oprah's secret and try to like, I get some candles and a shrine and try to manifest whatever. Like you do it because you feel like a calling to live your life in service of God in having a family. Right? - Yeah. - And so this, it just sounds like, - I understand that, but Christianity never really factors in. So I guess like there is a, there should be a concept of like a secular trad life. - Okay, so she wants us, okay. You know what, can we get away from her experience of the trad life? First of all, it's completely defunct by the fact that you want to try the trad life. First off, why don't you don't marry a Fed? - It's like rule one. - Rule one. - I sense that this video is burning you out and you're ready to stop. Is that right? - Yeah, or can we get to away from the trad narrative, which is like very uninteresting to me? - All right, so let me see if I can find here. Online content is mistaken for identity. How does that sound? - No, no, that sounds good. - For reality? - This is from the person who apparently, okay, so just to clarify, is she saying that if she, okay, I can only take this on face value. She's saying that if she had lived out the trad life listicle, right? That's her life would have been better. Or she's saying that people would say-- - No, she's saying it would have been worse anyways. - Yeah, but it's a listicle. Isn't that taking online content as reality? - Well, she could be characterizing the, what she's not literally talking about a listicle that she saw on BuzzFeed. She is characterizing the traditional arrangement of marriage where the man works and the woman stays at home and raises children. And she's characterizing it as a listicle because she wants it to seem absurd because she is a single mom. Now, that's what, I mean, and this is like her cope. It's cope, the whole thing is cope. Is that fair? This is-- - Because she's quoted her relationship. - This is a cope stream because she fucked up and she couldn't just be like, I did this all wrong, right? Like, that's all, like people, I think that she's still a woman. She would have gotten tons of sympathy. She is not, she is not. It's all copium. - Okay, so maybe she could have come out and said, ladies, don't marry a Feds. - Yeah, that would have been, well, yeah. Or she would have been like, take a step back and think, okay, what were the signs? You know, like, because like, if you're not, if you're blinded, if you're wearing rose tints of glasses. - Did he often wear a, was he, you know-- - Did he have an earpiece? - Yeah, did he have an earpiece? Was he like doing this when he talked to you? Could you talk directly into my chest, Lauren? - What, when he had sex with you, did he always wear like a khaki, no, sorry, a blue shirt with FBI on it to hide the wire? Like, what's-- (laughing) - I think it was an Australian, I think he was an Australian Fed. - We need a listicle on how to spot the Feds. - Yeah. - Okay, but anyway, it's like, this just feels like somebody who's seeking out something to, like, some kind of purpose, which is sad. All right, but also-- - Oh, I got a super chow, I forgot to read it. - What's her opinion on immigration? Like, this was her big issue. Is that like, just no opinion now? - No, there was a whole section on it, but I skipped it because I didn't think it was really-- - Well, just summarize it, summarize it. - I don't remember, she-- - Is she okay with it now? - Controversial take on immigration, I don't know. Probably that she, like, I don't remember, it doesn't matter. The Europe is cooked, but I got a super chow from Great Endores, I forgot to read $10. By the way, guys, let me know how this sounds. My voice, I mean, I've made some changes and I did a bunch of stuff before the show, so I don't know if this is good enough, but. Okay, Great Endores gives us $10 and says, despite the AC/DC shirt, Brian is wearing AC/DC. I do appreciate the lack of AC noises in the stream, and my conditioner is on right now, by the way. The apparent autistic autofile approves. By the way, the donation will follow next, Alison. The Badger Cave doesn't pay for itself. Thank you for the super chow, really appreciate it. And do you wanna tell them, if you wanna send another one, be the Badger.com/justotip? - Yeah, more than send another super chow. Please do so at feedthebadger.com/justotip. I'm just not, I'm feeling poorly, I'm not really. - Let's get into this whole thing about online. - I think honestly, it just comes down to this. Everything that she says about the trad life or whatever she's terming the trad life, I don't even know what the hell is going on, like, I don't know. But it is basically rendered moot by the man she married. - Yeah. - Okay. All right, let's, let's. - All right, so this is, the online content is mistaken for reality, let's find out. - It's interesting, I was thinking of what you just said on the way over here, because, and I understand why France has asked a question. I understand exactly why you answered it the way you did, because we are like geriatric millennials. We just caught the very end of the moment. - Unless of the geriatric. - Mate, 42, what can I say? Anyway. - Babies. - And just children, just children, okay. - When I see stuff on the internet, when I see people on Twitter saying stuff about relationships, I've been married 20 plus years at this point, right? I just go, well, no one can possibly believe this crap, right? - That's what I think when I see stuff on the internet, when I see various influencers talking about how to have to have a marriage, and I just look at it. - Yeah, I saw that, like, so the way it works is, there has to be a second of silence, and then just whether it's you, me, or the video, and then it'll switch scenes, but there has to be like a gap. So, 'cause it's like reading, it's like listening to the audio tracks, and so if there's overlap, then, okay, anyway. So I'm just gonna shut up, and I'm gonna play it. - I just go, no, no, this is insane. No one can possibly believe this, and I'll swipe to the next thing. But what I increasingly realized, this may sound like a really stupid thing to say, but increasingly talking to young guys that work with us, and all the rest of it is like, your generation, that's your reality. You don't have anything to compare it to quite often, unless you have some personal experiences, seeing your parents and stuff like that, you're taking, people are taking the stuff literally. - Oh, absolutely they are. And I think also the easy solutions come from a generation of young people who did grow up in broken homes in a lot of cases, and they want to think in their head, there is an easy solution to this. This shouldn't be happening. I shouldn't have grown up in a broken home. There should be steps I can take to prevent myself from experiencing this, or they'll get so bitter about it. They'll say, actually, there are no steps you can take. It is just, you know, all women bad, all men bad, marriage shouldn't exist. It's a lot of pain. A lot of pain people have that is coming out in this. - So they experience something horrific, and they want there to be steps to take to avoid it. And that's a problem? Like seriously, how is that a problem? But also calling out this generation, this younger generation as living, not in reality, all right, feminism is living, not in reality, right? Believing that men oppress women, but then somehow all you do is complain about men oppressing women, two men is not living in reality, right? All of these rad fems who talk about, oh, they hate men, they wanna live in a world without men. And yet all they do is complain about it. They don't take any, not living in reality, all right? There's a lot of women who aren't living in reality. And there's a lot of people who are invested in manufacturing a completely false reality. And it didn't just start with social media. Social media may be a force multiplier for this artificial reality. But the start was when, I guess, maybe World War I, maybe before that with the Declaration of Sentiments, where they realized that sex war is a money spinner. It can sell all kinds of concepts, it can sell all kinds of goods. It is essentially a fundamental driver of consumerism, sex war. And now we are experiencing basically the end of that, like the end of the boom. This is where the sex war deflation comes. Like, it's where it's no longer working. The bubble has gotten so big that the only thing it can do now is pop, right? So, but that was unreal. Like, we have generations upon generations upon generations of academics who constructed an entire house of cards around sex war, around this idea that men oppress women. It's all a bunch of bullshit. And a good part of our foundation is complete bullshit. Like, the academia is supposed to provide an intellectual foundation for society. And everything that it does with sex outside of a few outliers is complete bullshit. So don't talk of that, that somehow the zoomers are living in unreality. We've been living in unreality for generations now, right? We've been living in a freaking advertising jingle. We pretending that that has the same kind of wisdom as the stuff that came out of the Bible, right? And I'm not, again, I'm not a Christian. I'm not saying that, but I'm saying that the document of a group of people who lived through the fall of possibly a civilization lived through a lot of shit might have some value in it. A hell of a lot more than a jingle about sex wars that sells fricking smokes, or sorry, cigarettes. Right? Okay, now that's what we've been living in. And again, social media might be a force multiplier, but the lie was already there. Okay. - Yep, yep. - And how are you going, are you offering anything? Is this woman offering anything? - No, it's just like, she basically, okay, so she says the internet has done this. It makes men say women are bad, and women say men are bad. But that's not really true, and just to your point, like the internet may be a force multiplier, but the narrative that men are bad is way older. And what's happening with men is not that they're being told that women are bad, but they're seeing what women are saying about them, and they're getting angry about it. This is like, look, I've said this for many years now, the red pill would not exist if it weren't for feminism. There would be no red pill. There would be no man's fear. There would be no andru tape. There would be no fresh and fit if it weren't for feminism. And it just keeps doubling down, doubling down, doubling down, doubling down, doubling down, and you're just gonna keep getting more and more of these kinds of people. Like you had Warren Farrell in the 1960s, he was probably the nicest guy, right? Totally soft and polite, and now you have andru tape. Do you think that's an accident? Like this is what you're going to continue to get, and the more you say on both sides, which is what this is, the more of that you're gonna get, because it's just like, you know, a bully finally gets his comeuppance from the kid that he's been bullying, and then you show up and you punish both of them. You're just gonna make the kid resent you because he was being bullied. So, you know what I'm saying? So like this is... - The corruption started with men oppressed women. - Yeah, that's where it began. - With the corruption started, that's where it began. - I mean, Lauren Southern doesn't seem to like, she thinks of feminism as slut walks and sexist air conditioning. Sorry, but that was like the easiest shit to debunk. It's not that. It's the oldest story of men oppressed women all throughout history or in these foreign countries. It's just not true, and that's the problem. So men reacting to this and you blaming them is ridiculous because I don't think men hate women. I think that, and I've said this too, if women said that they were sorry for how they've been treating men for as long as they have, men would immediately figuratively put down their weapons. They're like, okay. - Well, what weapons are those? Mild criticism, really? - Well, basically, yeah, they're mild, they're mild criticisms, they're nagging. They're nagging. I don't think it would end, but you know, they'd be like, okay, you know, maybe they'd be less despondent, but you know, women aren't, they have too much pride. They can't stop themselves. - The manosphere and the Red Pill community are doing mean tweets on the internet. Feminists have made it so that male victims of domestic violence are more likely to be arrested than their abusers. Feminists have written male victims of sexual assault, rape victims, out of the statistics. Like they have constructed a whole bunch of scholarship that makes it harder for a man who is being beaten by his wife to be believed. They made all kind of scholarship that makes it harder for boys who are abused by women to get help. This is what feminists do, right? And even, and if we even look at what they do from female victims, they promote initiatives that are beneficial to feminism, but may end up having more women be raped, right? - Yeah. - Great, all right. So this is what feminism is doing. Is there anything wholesale that compares? Yeah, and you take maybe personally facing some charges, but what is it that the whole manosphere has done that really compares just to one thing that feminism did, that one thing informed by feminism, which is Mary Coss and all of the crap that she's put into the issue around sexual assault from all the one in four, creating rape hysteria among women, rape hysteria among women, to literally cooking the books about who is being raped and who is raping rape, who is raping who, by saying that men who are sexually assaulted by women cannot be considered raped. And then-- - Rape any rape, rape, rape, rape. - Removing them from the statistics. Okay, what manosphere influencer has done as much harm to women as Mary Coss has done to men. And that's just one feminist in good standing who feminists continue to quote and continue to regard as being a authority on sexual assault, right? - Yep. - One, one, all right. - All right, so I got a super chat from Xeranks. I want to read it really quick. And he says, "Southern's supposed to be a libertarian "and she got taken in by a Fed." I honestly would have thought she'd be the honeypot. Is there an Australian MI6? I guess there is. It's probably an Australian MOI sex or something like that. I don't know, I don't do those accents. All right, thank you for the super chat, Xeranks. Let's jump to another part. So we got like, you want to stop in like the next eight minutes? There's probably a good bit here, if I remember correctly. The movement to repeal votes for women. (laughs) Yeah, she talks about Cat Turd who traumatized her, I guess. Audience capture on the right. I felt I had to hide my divorce, my experience of abuse. The red pillars turned on me. There's that, no empathy for an avatar. Nuance has made me politically homeless. You know what, I could just respond to that in general. There's no such thing as being politically homeless. You're just being a coward. You have values and you have principles and you just stick by those. And wherever you land on that, that's what it is. What? - Oh, I said, do you have values and you have principles? I just said, that's sort of generous in this context. - No, I'm saying if someone has, look, when people say, yeah, when people say, I am politically homeless, they are being a moral coward. I said this on Twitter. People got mad at me, but let me explain, okay? What, I think when people say that, they're saying, well, I want to find out what team I'm on. But the thing is, that's not how people work. That's just not. Like, there are no teams, really. There is a spectrum unlike gender, which is not. And what you do is you say, here are the things that I believe and that's it. You don't have to say what that means. That's not important because people are going to come up with, you know, oh, you're an anarcho-syndicalist. You're a, you're a whatever. And, you know, like, not so what? Who cares? Just say, look, these are the things I believe and that's it. You don't have to fall into anything. And I think that maybe some people, maybe young people, they feel like if they can't clearly say, I am this or I am that, then that means that they are homeless. No, it doesn't because you have, unless you have no opinions on anything. But everyone has opinions on something. So you just say, these are my values. These are my principles. And that's it. So, sorry, not buying the politically homeless argument. I feel like it's people playing victim of like, you know, the, the, the discourse. Oh, I'm a victim of the discourse because the, I don't agree with everything these people say and I don't agree with what everything people, these people say, stop it, stop it. Okay, I probably am more disagreeable at most, but I know where I stand on shit. - I'm interested in hers, but actually talking about relationship. - Her, yeah, you already go to that. - Sure. - How I met my husband, how I met my mother. - How I met your times almost went to jail. In fact, once again, another thing I-- - I'm pausing, I haven't spoken publicly. When I, part of the-- - There was shit again. - Reason that I found my husband very attractive is when I was in Turkey, I was facing five years in jail. We got arrested while filming borderless by the military and they had put the sheets on our desk. We were going to court the next day. You are facing five years in jail and I would have been just getting out like now, my life gone. My husband, he, he actually, obviously, there's been talk about him being a fed and having connections with that world. I didn't fully understand it then and I wasn't dating him at this time, but I, he had done some work for me at that time and him and another individual that were working on the borderless film as security and fixers, I didn't realize that they had connections with intelligence agencies, one of them American, the other one Australian, who was my husband and they were able to get me out of jail, get me out of that situation in Turkey. I don't know exactly the details. - You didn't ask any questions, did you? 'Cause it was benefiting you at the time. - Yeah, he was just like, I could pull some strings and she was like, okay, I guess this is just what guys do. I guess this is just a guy thing. - This is just usual guys who are here, no red flags. - Oh man, and their ability to manipulate the court system. (laughing) - Oh man, and their-- - That must be that male privilege I keep hearing about. - Oh, good Lord, so you didn't ask any questions at that point. All right, all right, all right. So what's the abuse? - I'm curious. - All right, is that in here? I think there's like a, my experience of abuse, that's over here. - Yeah, sure, go ahead, right there. - All right, we'll play it from here. - Ways than just this horrific audience capture, I think it's used by governments, I think it's used by abuse of spouses, I think it's used-- - Okay, we know, you're gonna have to go to the beginning of this-- - That's blackmailing the context of what's being used as abuse. Unless you're willing to-- - I think it's mostly verbal and emotional, if I remember correctly. Nothing physical. - Oh, okay. - More than just the audience stuff, like part of my marriage, that was, it's hard for me to even say abusive. I don't like using the word abusive because it's hard for me to even conceptualize it that way myself because I very much still, even though horrible things happen, I still care for my husband. Doing that marriage article was very difficult, but there are reasons that I kind of had to talk about it honestly for my own sake. Towards the end of our marriage, I found a list in my husband's office while I was cleaning of every single media figure that had ever written a negative article about me, both right wing and left wing. And I was told that this was a contingency list of people he would contact to hurt my reputation if I disobeyed in the marriage, so if I let-- - So he never used it as a threat, you just found it at the end of your relationship. When the relationship was breaking down and presumably you're all saying hurtful things. So up to that point, you weren't being abused. Is this okay? - Well, apparently he had, you know, expectations of her to be a good wife or whatever, but she was, and she was trying to deliver on them. According, this is just her account, by the way. - Yeah, that's the problem. - We don't really know. - It's just her account. - It's just her side of the story, we don't know. And for some reason, this fed is just disappeared. Like, and then this happens in this complete turnabout. - Yeah, I believe that after the divorce, he fired a grapple gun to like a Zeppelin and they flew away back to the volcano layer that he lives in. - No, but it's like, okay, first of all, no, his-- - Or the nuclear submarine, I don't know which one of us. - He hasn't even, he hasn't even come out to speak. - The moon base. - No, but seriously. - No, he hasn't, I haven't heard anything from him. I don't even know who he is. - He hasn't even made a statement. Like, is he completely, just doesn't want anything to do with it, which does not reflect well on her going publicly like this? Or is it just a situation where she's already doing what he wants her to do? I'm just saying. - Okay, more of the video. - I guess that's a little bit of conspiracy. - A little bit. - Yeah, any of that, you would contact them and start spreading rumors about me saying that I was a failed dried wife, all of these sorts of things. So, you know, this control mechanism of public-- - Do he? - He threatened to do what you're already doing. - Well, she wanted to get ahead of it. That's why she put out her video. - Okay, this sounds really paranoid. First of all, how-- - You know, she acute, you know what, I don't know if you know, but she did accuse, 'cause she was, she came, she, okay, in a video she made. She claimed that she flew out to L.A. to watch a screening of the Red Pill when it was screening in L.A. and New York or whatever. And I think it was either the screening or something else. And she claimed that one of the men's rights activists had made a pass at her or essentially tried to SA her. She didn't name any names. She didn't file any reports or anything like that. But I think that this was what she was using as a precedent to essentially say, look, they're, you know, this was part of the Mabose-sized thing. Like here's a guy, she didn't say who it was or anything. Part of the men's movement involved with the making of the Red Pill documentary. He came out of me strong. I felt threatened. She made this whole video about it if I remember correctly. And I just-- - What's the name of it? - Well, yeah, she didn't name it, but I don't, I don't, again, I'm just saying that this is like, it seems to be part of a pattern that I'm seeing of, you know, like she claimed that Paul Joseph Watson made a pass at her. She claimed a couple of things and I don't know. Is he? I always pictured him like with my Lilianopolis for some reason, but no, I don't think he is. He's actually got a kid on the way, actually. He's actually married and he is a child on the way. But it's still a really like messed up thing to throw out there, especially again, if you're not actually like making, like you're not making any criminal allegations, but the thing is if you make a criminal allegation, this is how a lot of the Me Too stuff works. If women make a criminal allegation, then they have to back it up. Then they have to provide evidence and everything else. But if they just put out an allegation on the internet and they don't call it criminal and maybe even try to downplay it a little bit, you know, then they have enough plausible deniability that they can tarnish someone's reputation or damage anyone attached to them in any way without actually having to pay the piper, you know, in terms of like showing the receipts, right? So I bring this up because it just kind of dawned on me while I was watching this, that she did do that to us because we were, you know, very much tied to the making of the red pill documentary. We helped Cassie Jay. We brought her out to the ICMI a couple of times and I still like, I'm a big supporter of Cassie Jay and everything else. And I think that what she did was extremely important and really good because at the end of the day, for me, this has always been about having the conversation and Cassie Jay brought forth something that really got people talking. And I thought that was good. And to have Lauren Southern come out later and be like, and this is not, it had no bearing on anything else except, oh, this has been my life, you know, and this is why I'm no longer whatever I thought I was, you know, I'm politically homeless or whatever. And it's kind of annoying because again, it comes across as cowardice. - Well, I mean, maybe it happened. Maybe it didn't, who knows? I mean, it's an allegation with no evidence behind it. We don't know who it was alleged against. But let's continue because I want to find out, did he actually abuse her during the relationship? - Let's see. - Reputation can be used in a lot more ways than just this horrific audience capture. I think it's used by governments. I think it's used by abusive spouses. I think it's used as blackmail, corporations, all this kind of stuff. And it's the cancel culture of both sides is absolutely ruining our ability to have honest conversations and real relationships. And a lot of people think they ask, why did Lauren do that merry article? Why would she talk about her marriage so publicly? She could have kept it private. That's private matter. - Oh, this is the excuse. - Yeah, I actually thought so for a long time too. It was actually my husband that's. - Oh, let's go back a little bit. Oh, I'll play it from here. It's actually my husband that. - The duping delight is not really selling this, Lauren. Look at that face. - Yeah. - She looks like she's getting away with it. - Well, let's see. - Influencers, both left wing and right wing, saying Lauren's divorced. She's this terrible person before I had even spoken about it publicly. So my husband was kind of forced by it. - But you don't know that your husband did that. Jesus Christ, she looks really thrilled by whatever she's saying right now. Like, no, look at her. I know if someone-- - You know, if someone-- - Microfacial expressions, but Jesus Christ, she looks like she won the lottery. - You know, when you say like people just saying, look, Lauren's got divorced, that's not an attack. Like, Count Dankula was recently divorced. Did you know that, Alison? - Yep. - And it's, you know, it's sad. And he got, he put out a statement. He's like, yeah, it's true. You know, we're just like different people now. And I was like, that's, you know, that's too bad, man. Like, but people were talking about it, but they weren't attacking him. I don't think Dankula thought of it as, oh, I'm being attacked because people are talking about it. It's like, people are, you know, you share, you put, you make yourself into a public figure, okay? And people are gonna talk about you. So what? - Yes. - I mean, I don't know what to say. - The point is that she's saying that it was her husband that made everyone talk about their divorce. And she's saying that she found this list. I mean, how, let's think about this. Maybe she did find a list, but maybe it was a list, like of strings, like she wanted to pull in terms of improving her image or something. Like, we only have her word on all of this. And for somebody who was so threatening to her, he certainly has just disappeared, hasn't he? Well, he could be doing exposés on how Lauren Southern was a failed trad wife. But guess what he's not doing? Apparently, he's not going about publicly on all of these places that hate her. Like, you'd think that if this was his intent, he would have done it. And we would have Lauren Husband's ex-husband spills all about failed trad wife. - Yeah, right. - Yeah, right. Where is, yeah, where are all the op-eds? Where's the slate article? - Yeah, like, and you say that, oh, he had all this influence. He knew all of these people. He would be able to, to do, where is it? It's only you. - Yeah. - And you-- - So then-- - And the excuses that she's getting ahead of it, right? - That's what it seems like. That's what she did when she made her video. - She's really thrilled about whatever it is she's doing. Like, I mean, I know this is just micro, micro expressions, you know, and that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Maybe she has gas, who knows. But she's definitely got the duping, the classic duping delight look on her face. - Yeah. - Now, maybe it's a burrito coming back up. I don't know, but-- - Well, okay, so can I just say, we've been going for an hour and a half and I have to do an after-show. I don't wanna be up too late, but-- - One last thing, one last thing. Just get the right wing capture, the audience capture one. It's a little bit before this, I believe, before it. - I feel I had to hide my divorce. Audience captures on the right. - Yeah, audience, let's do audience capture on the right and then we'll call it. - All right, all right. - And I am also suffering. - All right, I'm gonna unpause, here we go. - Anything else going on here? - I think there's a massive audience capture going on within the political sphere, both the right and left. It's interesting because the right wing, I always liked them because they portrayed themselves as an alternative to the media, who constantly had money, big money interests, social acceptability, government pressure. We need something outside of that. That's not pressured to have certain opinions, but now. - You're making noise, it's cutting to you. - Oh, sorry, sorry. - No, that's all right. A lot of right-wing influencers, or just influencers on the internet in general, they have no hope of getting a normal job in some cases, particularly if you're on the very far fringes of the right, you couldn't even get a job at a McDonald's. And that's, I don't think society should be that way. I don't like cancel culture, you know? But that's the truth. And I do know people who operate in those spaces who actually don't agree with their audiences at all, but they are stuck. They are trapped because that is the only job they have to be anymore. - Well, audience capture, really? Okay, no, you're telling me they can't get a job at McDonald's? Are you, nah. - Yeah, I know, right. Learn some skills, stuff. - Yeah, just go to town, become a carpenter, something. No, I press X to doubt. - Yeah. - But maybe she's right, but it just seems a little far-fetched. - Victimizing influencers? - Yeah, the right is victimizing influencers. This is what I see, okay? - We have been operating under a false reality, men oppress women for generations. It is now a critical mass of this kind of mystery, and it is destroying people's relationships, and it's destroying men's perception that they're lovable. And what the red pill bros are selling men is the possibility of taking some kind of action to feel lovable, to feel worthy of love, all right? And the more that our society promotes the idea of men are unlovable, the more hungry men will be for the perception that they are lovable. And that's what the red pill bros are doing. It may tie to, oh, you have to take these actions, but at the end of the day, that's what they're selling. You are lovable, right? You can be loved if you do this. And the more our society says to men that they're unlovable, the hungrier men become for some kind of content that makes them feel like they're capable of being loved, right? And that's just the way it's gonna go. We can talk about the trad life failing Lauren Southern as much as we want, and not about her choice to have a man who has mysterious fricking strings that he can pull with government to get her out of jail, and then at the end of the relationship, the thing that made her attracted to him, which was his covert secret power, is the very thing that she says, oh, it made me afraid. Oh, Jesus Christ. And what is her opinion on immigration? And all of this, has her opinion on immigration changed? Who knows? 'Cause we're not talking about issues anymore. We're talking about somebody's love life, right? We're talking about somebody's failures in their relationships. Okay, and I think that just comes down to that. This is a big, what? - A big what? - Yeah, it's a big what? Like, are we talking about issues? Are we talking about doing something? Like, or giving men another option besides the red pill? Are we talking about challenging this pervasive, anti-male rhetoric that's basically polluting the entire thing? Like, are we talking turkey? Or are we just talking jive? And it seems like we're talking jive. You know, we're just bullshitting right now. - Yeah, I mean, it's, well, I mean, I don't know what the goal is other than what. Like, this is, okay, so here's, I'll just be my last word on this. One of the things that, and I know that, like, I understand why this is the case, but what I am learning as I've been doing this for a while is that all I ever wanted when I got involved with this is to like, like push for the conversation to take place. When I started doing this work or working with you guys at HBR, I didn't, you know, I had to learn how to do all this production stuff on the fly. I was, I drew cartoons. Like, that's what I was doing when I started out. And, but as I like learned about this more and more, I thought that this information was absolutely crucial for people to like, get out there. And so my primary, like what, when I think I have scored a victory is when I see the things that we talk about here being talked about out in the world. Either on the internet in areas where you wouldn't expect it or on like, or on the streets even, which, you know, I have actually seen since doing this for 10 years. And I think that it's purely because I have remained on the grind along with others. I'm not taking full credit, obviously, to keep talking about this stuff, right? And I've seen this come out. We've had Lauren Southern on our channel a couple of times. This is like, we've had all these people on before they went on to be like much bigger. Chew on head, Blair White, you know, whatever, right? Stefan Molinew, Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson. So many other people, some of them were bigger than us when we had saw them. Jordan Peterson, remember we talked to him once, right? So, and it doesn't matter what they went to do, went on to do after that, because they got a little bit of something out of our conversation and we got something from them, most likely. And then they went and, you know, whether constantly or not, they may have shared a piece of something that we have said. And I think that these things, they're like, they're like you throw a stone into a puddle and it creates ripples and you hear the word, people start using the word misinjury, people start talking about father's rights, people start talking about false allegations, the problem with me too, et cetera. And this just keeps expanding, expanding, expanding. And that is, I think, the way the information gets out and sort of like stays. It becomes, I don't know, permeates, I guess, into the discussion. Carl also, Sargon was a big fan of our channel when we used to talk to him, right? And now-- - We thought I was, I think Dr. Ranmerkamp still talks to him. - Dr. Yeah, we see, yeah, no, I mean, I'm not saying, no, no, of course. Mike still talks to Carl and Carl has, I think he still is fond of us and all that. But my point is, is that my whole goal was never about necessarily getting a lot of clout. I just wanted the conversation to take place. I wanted to get out there. And if at some point, like, we were able to have like a little operation, like what we have now, maybe a little bit bigger or something, I'd be totally content with that. Because the point is to continue to have the discussion. So what I take issue with is what I'm seeing is with this kind of stuff. There are people that, their involvement in this isn't about the discussion and the ultimate goals of said discussion, but it's about how they are personally impacted by what they are doing. So, Lauren is talking about her experience and she's trying to sort of throw the manuscript under the bus. And there is like no moment where she steps back and says, wait a minute, is all of this, what is this really about? Like, what is it really about, you know? And it's like, is it about what's going on with my personal relationship or what, you know, some of these like really popular or louder voices in the red pill space, the Manosphere space, is that really what I should be putting my attention or energy on? Because if all I'm doing is saying, look, here's Snyco, here's Prussian Fit, here's Andrew Tate, here's the Whatever podcast, look at how they're treating the women on here, then you are contributing to the noise. And you're not saying, well actually, maybe you should be talking to these people. Maybe you should be talking to, you know, I mean, I'm not gonna say us, I'm saying like maybe you should know who Janice Fiamengo is, maybe you should know who Steve Boulay is, or Paul Elam or Karen, or yeah, and us and Warren Farrell and whoever, and instead you're just saying, well look, the Manosphere is just as bad. And what that does is it kills the conversation that I'm trying, that I think is important to have. And I don't care who actually is the one who says the words and finally gets the message out, I just care that it gets out. So my beef with Lauren Southern is that she knows who we are. This is just like the shoe on head thing, although shoe on head did eventually go back around this, but it's almost like they can't see past the people that they observe at their level of influence, right? So it's like I only see these fresh and fit guys because they also have millions of subs, or, and they get obsessed with this, but they get obsessed with Pearl. Like I don't like what she's saying, so I'm gonna talk about her, but it's like, why does Pearl exist? What are her talking points? Well, her talking points are our talking points, and we've been doing this for a lot longer. So maybe you have to, yeah, maybe you don't like her, but what I'm saying is you have to like, maybe you have to, what I would suggest is that if you think that these issues are important, then maybe the issue should take center stage and not the people, right? - Yeah, well, like what I was saying, like we're just talking about somebody's failed relationship and the fact that they wanna offload blame onto something other than, you know, not having, not being aware that having suspicious ties to government is suspicious. - Yeah. - And then also the very thing that she, I think the big takeaway is the very thing that she was attracted to, and her husband, ended up being the thing that she said she was afraid of. The very power that she enjoyed when he was using it for her became the thing that she said she was afraid of. And I don't know, like I haven't heard his side. Did he actually say this? Did he actually have this list? Was it a list intended to keep her in line or was it a list of people he intended to try to influence away from harming her? Who knows? We don't have-- - Has she been to Epstein Island? - Yeah, like we don't have this part of the story, but so this is just like the she said part of a he said, where are the issues, like you were saying, where are the talking points, where are the values, where are the principles, where's the actual discussion, nowhere in this? - No, it's just, yeah. - And I just wanted to say, okay, so what we're dealing with is again, we are dealing with a false narrative about reality that men oppress women. And what we talk about here is the counter argument to that reality. So what's happening in the relationship is basically what's happened is that this narrative, which was originally academic, institutional, had some other stuff that it was doing, but it's now it is leaked, like a nuclear meltdown. It has leaked out of the reactor into the surrounding area and has fatally poisoned everyone in terms of their relationships. And the only way, like the red pill bros can say, you do the hell diver code for men. You know, could you say it again? The option? - I mean, like you're here talking about up, right, down, down, down, for the 500 kilo kilos on bottom. - You insert that code and suddenly women will love you. But the problem is that we have this narrative that essentially is teaching women that men are unlovable. And not just that. If you love them, you're being conned somehow. Out of resources, which is the big thing that women hate, because that's the thing that women fight over. Because this is the thing about women. They're big thing they fight over as resources. So when you say to a woman, oh, if you engage in this behavior, you're losing resources, you're being cheated. That strikes right to the heart of who she thinks she is. Right, you know, you deserve this, you're not getting it. So when people say that loving men means being cheated to women, that is so destructive. And until you get rid of these narratives, women will actively choose not to be with men. And there is nothing red pill bros can do about it. The problem is that there is not enough women convinced that relationships with men are good and important and will make them happy. And they're a worthy aim to pursue and they're losing nothing by being in one. So there's just not enough women out there seeking relationships with men. And the only way to change that is to challenge the narrative that relationships with men harm women, or they're not getting something out of it. So the only way to do it is to get rid of the idea that men oppress women or that men cheat women or that men are somehow getting something that women aren't getting out of a relationship. That's all bullshit. So the only way to change this is to challenge the thing that's killing it. The only way to change and increase the number of women available to men is to get rid of these toxic narratives. And we are the ones, we are the ones who have the tools to do it, to deconstruct those toxic narratives. You can deconstruct the toxic narrative about men, women being unhappy in marriage. Deconstruct the toxic narratives around domestic violence and sexual assault. Deconstruct the toxic narratives around false accusations, around oppression historically. All of that, we deconstruct it. It comes here to die, right? And that is what's causing the lack of women interested in men. - All right, so I got some super chats and then I think we can, and superchows that we can like wrap it up. So Zarex gave us $5, thank you Zarex, and says her side is the only side bigot, Michael Knowles. Yeah, he's a total simp. Then Zarex gives us $5 again and says, "Didn't Michaela Peterson also say her first husband made her feel fear? Should we start connecting dots?" There's something about that. - Yeah, but her cousin was Rasputin, so, you know. - And then we got a super chow from Richard Bier for five bucks. I should have read his first, but that was my bad. And he says if her husband was truly a threat, one would think that Lauren would have been given the Jimmy Hoffa treatment. I don't know what you're talking about. Okay, that's all of the super chats and superchows. So-- - Yeah, this went longer than we were-- - Yeah, a little bit. I'll just make them after show a little shorter. It's okay. - Okay, all right, so I had a nice long rant. I think I'm good. So if you want to send a message at any time after the show is over, feedthebadger.com/justthetip. And if you want to support us, feedthebadger.com/support. I'll see if I have any thank yous to give. Did you get all of the-- - That's it, yep. - Ready for your-- - Did we get some additional stuff from Zairinks? - I read all of Zairinks' things. - Okay. - He sent three super chats unless there's some last minute ads. - Okay, nope, nope, we got it. All right, so I want to do a big thank you to Richard for actually purchasing the first poster. I think it's, okay, this is how it works. We are in the process of printing silkscreening print. These are actual prints. So this is not like a printer with a dot major. No, it's, these are actual analog prints. We have finished doing the black and white, barring anything crazy, we should be able to do like a spot color, which is like two colors, so black and white and maybe a red. And then after that, we're going to go for the four color. So these are all prints. It's all like a classic artistic medium, other original NFTs. And I didn't want to over over like promise. So for now, I'm just going to promise that we're going to be able to do the black and white prints as thank yous. And Richard Beer has already purchased like the first. He put in $1,000 and thank you. They're not, they're not, they're not put at $1,000. He just put in $1,000 and he wants to get like a bunch of them anyway. And then also Michael, I'm sorry, the great indoors has put through his sponsorship for this particular episode and the topic for $500. So thank you, great indoors. Thank you, Richard. Richard is also looking for them or something. Richard also put in an additional 500 bucks for a previous sponsorship. So I just started the fundraiser and we're already at, let me see, sorry guys, we're already at 2000. So thank you everyone for, well, thank you. - Wow, awesome. - Richard and great indoors, that's great. And hopefully if you would like to have a poster, you don't have to put in a thousand to get a poster. They are at 250 right now. I'm hoping to be able to drop that down to 100, but I gotta fit, we gotta, it's a process guys. So just bear with it. But if you would like a poster, designs will change every month. Our current design is called defending history and it features Hannah in a drag out fight with the feminist snake going through history and changing it all to something that it isn't to a lie. So anyway, if you're at that interest you do, then please consider going to feedthebadger.com/support. And again, put something in the hat for us and get a poster. All right, back to you, Brian. I know this is really crazy 'cause it's just changing. Lots of things are moving and I don't know exactly how to describe them 'cause it's a little complicated. - That's okay. - But I'm trying my best guys. I'm always trying my best. All right, back to you, Brian. - All right, well, if you guys liked this video, please hit like, subscribe if you're not already subscribed with the bell for notifications, leave us a comment. Let us know what you guys think about what we discussed on the show today. There's a link to the full video in the description so you can watch it yourself. And please, please, please share this video because Shari is caring. Thank you so much for coming on today's episode of Maintaining Frame, and we'll talk to you all in the next video. (crowd cheering) - An official message from Medicare. - A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. Maybe you can save too. With Medicare's extra help program, my premium is zero and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year or married couples who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. 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