The Rise Up, See Red podcast

2024 NFC West offensive player, position rankings

As they have each summer for years, Jess and Seth look at the four teams in the NFC West and rank players and positions groups. They look at the offensive side of the ball, ranking the following:

Starting quarterbacks
Backup quarterbacks
Running backs
Running back duos
Wide receivers
Wide receiver trios
Tight ends
Tight end duos
Each offensive line position
Offensive line units

Duration:: 1h 4m
Broadcast on:: 03 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Hey there, it is Ryan Seacrest with you. You wanna make this summer unforgettable? Join me at Chumba Casino. It's this summer's hottest online destination. They are rolling out the red carpet with an amazing welcome offer just for you. So don't wait, dive in now and play hundreds of social casino games for free. Your chance to redeem real prizes is just a spin away. Here to join me. - Sponsored by Chumba Casino, no purchase necessary. VGW Group, void were prohibited by law. 18 plus terms and conditions apply. - Three, two, three, four! - Three, two, three, four! (upbeat music) - This is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast. All about the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL. Featuring insider and outsider perspectives. Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the web. Now here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox. (upbeat music) - Hello, Arizona Cardinals fans and welcome to the latest edition of the Rise Up Sea Red podcast, the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the web. I'm your host, Jess Root, and apparently I cannot talk this afternoon. And I'm your host, Jess Root from cardswire.com, the USA Today NFL Wire site that covers, of course, the Arizona Cardinals and my co-host with me this afternoon, recording on a Tuesday. Seth Cox from RevengeToTheBirds.com. SB Nation's Arizona Cardinals site for episode 548. You wouldn't know this. Like, you should think I would know how to do this, but this is my fourth recording of the day as I've started up recording the opponent preview shows. I've already booked all 14 opponent shows. Three of them are in the books. So, this week with Seth and I, we're doing two shows. We're doing two shows. It's our yearly segments and our yearly shows about NFC West rankings. We're gonna split those up into two, so you don't have to listen for us for like two and a half hours. We're gonna talk about the offense in this edition. And then later on the week, we will have the defensive rankings. And then, you know, Seth gets a couple of weeks off and then I will, over the next couple of weeks, release the opponent preview shows. Might be, I'm heck, I might be able to do one a day up until we come back for our training camp preview, the week the training camp starts. Seth, you're getting ready for a busy holiday this weekend. And as we're now officially three weeks away from the beginning of camp. - Yeah, and I mean, we're getting closer to that and you and I were talking off the air. This is the most intriguing camp I can remember and probably three or four years. Not, you know, not the most important or the most, this or that, just like we still are trying to figure out what this, these coaches and obviously for an office and all these guys are how they think about things. And this is, I think obviously we don't know, but I think it's going to start to clear up a little bit this season. We'll see kind of what they value, but we still also understand that they're, I mean, they're basically only on year two of a almost complete rebuild. I mean, the defense has, you know what, who maybe three holdovers that the offense really outside of Tyler and, and well, Kyler in for what we would consider the long term. I mean, James Connor and Will Hernandez, but both those guys contracts are up at the end of the year. So like, just what exactly they value and how they value and how they go about evaluating like this is, this is the first time we're going to really get to see, you know, their guys as they move forward. And, you know, and so that's going to make it intriguing because let's be honest. I mean, training camps exciting for a week and then, and then it's just like, okay, let's, let's get to the real football stuff because this is getting kind of boring. - Yeah, I mean, we pay attention of what's going on on the field, then you got preseason games, but, and if it sets, if revenge of the birds, if Seth doesn't like me, I will put together a pre-training camp, 53-man roster prediction. And then basically each weekend after that, based on, okay, what do we see in the early part of training camp? What do we see in the preseason game one? We'd see preseason game two, and then kind of there. And what you're going to see on in July, leading up to camp from, from my site, is basically one of three things. It's kind of like the overarching, I don't know how much news we're going to get. And so I started it yesterday. I'm going to do a series for every position, questions at each position, leading up to, to camp, then going to, I'm going to do probably a feature on every single player, just the background. So what they did, how, where they get, you know, how they've done, what they're expected, questions about what they have and kind of their outlook. And then the other part is what these shows are about. And then you will get the print version online. On my side over the next few, over the next couple of weeks, and that is ranking the players and the position groups around the NSC last, something we've done for many, many years. And this is the offensive side of the ball. And so we will talk about the quarterbacks. We'll talk about the running backs, the receivers, the tight ends and the offensive line, talking about, well at least the quarterback will go starters, backups, the running backs will do, you know, rank the top, top running backs and then the rooms will look at receivers individually and then the rooms will look at the tight ends and then the pairings like the top two. And then we'll kind of go by offensive line will, by each position and then as a unit. So we start off, we'll start off with the quarterback position, which is kind of an intriguing, we've got four, you know, four quarterbacks that are definitely starting quarterbacks. We've got Brock Purdy in San Francisco. Kyle Murray here, you've got Matthew Stafford. So the, the quarterbacks haven't changed. The starters have not changed at all in the NFC West. How would you rank those starters one to four entering this year? I guess it, not necessarily of where they are, but how you would rank them going into this season. - You know, I would start with, I think you have to put Matthew Stafford as the top guy. You know, I've gone back and forth on that quite a bit and his play itself, the physical abilities, have definitely fallen. But you look at what he did last year in 15 games. You look at the difference he makes for that team and that franchise. You know, I know quarterback wins is not a stat that people love or anything like that, but nine and six and kind of willed that team without Cooper cup for, you know, a third of the season. I just, I think he's got to be the top guy right now. Now I say all that with the caveat of when you're talking about a guy that's going into his age 36 season, that's already 36, he will be 36 for the entire year. Especially with all of his arm injury history, we're talking about a guy that could literally just fall off a cliff tomorrow. I mean, it is one of those situations, especially at quarterback where it just becomes a question mark about what is his, what is the remaining time he has in the league look like? Because at any point in time, and we saw it with Carson Palmer, right? Like those guys just immediately fall off a cliff. And it's not that they don't have the ability that they once had, it's just that they can't physically do it anymore. And especially when you, let's be honest, when you look at Stafford, when you talk about Stafford, what are the things that we always talk about with Stafford more than anything else? It's that arm, right? Like he makes throws that just are absurd. Once that starts to go, he's going to be able to still make throws because he's so cerebral and he's been doing this for a long time, but all of a sudden, the arm strength isn't there anymore, and now it's a little harder, and those windows are a little smaller, and all of a sudden, instead of a 24/11 season, it's a 22 and 16 season, in terms of touchdown interceptions, right? And we saw it with Palmer, obviously, and no offense to Carson Palmer, Stafford has had a better career, likely Hall of Fame career, and obviously has the Super Bowl to back that up now. And I would still put him at the top, but it's always, it's always interesting when these guys get to that age. I mean, and as a guy that's 38 gonna be 39 this year, you say, oh, 36, he's old, but in terms of the NFL, it could be at any time, and please, please, please, don't tell me about Tom Brady, because there's only one of those guys ever. (laughing) - Absolutely, absolutely. For me, that's why actually I've Stafford, number three this year. I have Stafford, number three. As good as he is entering this year, and we look at Matthew Stafford's numbers last year, which were, they weren't, wow, but they all weren't bad. They were, if you look at, aside for, you know, the nine game season, he played in 2022 when he missed things, but he didn't get 4,000 yards to 24 touchdowns. Granted, they had a good running game with Kyron Williams, and I think more for me, I put Stafford third because I'm bullish on Kyler Murray this year, because of what I think he's going to accomplish. But, I mean, Brock Purdy's number one. Say what you want about the talented Brock Purdy. Like, you look at what he's done over the last year and a half. You're like, whether you believe that he could have the same success with the different roster, he's still top dog in this division to me. Then it goes Murray, because I think we're going to see, assuming he stays healthy, that we're going to see him having gotten it together and what kind of what we saw with the last three games of the last season will kind of be the level of play we see for most of this season, which is going to be great. So Purdy, Murray, Stafford, and Geno Smith, are as good as he is. He's still the fourth best quarterback in this division. That doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing, but it's just look at the quarterbacks in the division. - Yeah, and mine would just be flip one and three. I would have Purdy at three. I think he has the easiest go of any of the quarterbacks, like you said, you know, it's not a knock on him. He still performs at an incredible rate and level. But I think if you put Stafford or Murray in that situation, they not only perform at the same level, potentially perform better. That's how I kind of always go about things, like if you just removed each person from their situation and put them in the other situation, where would they fall? And I think Purdy would, I mean, there's a good chance he would be fourth, but I would go one Stafford, two Murray, three Purdy, and then four Gino. And again, it's not anything against Gino. It's not, I think this is probably, you know, the best division in the NFL in terms of quarterback play, you know, depending on what happens in the AFC North with the Sean Watson and then-- - Question marks in Pittsburgh, but when you've got Lamar Jackson and you've got Joey Burrow. - Yeah, and so those guys, you know, are fantastic. And so, but I think just from, like you said, top to bottom, you're probably talking about the full, the best division in terms of one through four quarterbacks. And quite frankly, I don't have a problem with yours. Like I said, it's nothing against Purdy. I would just say that, again, he has the easiest. Now, from an expectation standpoint, nobody has it harder. Nobody has it harder, but nobody actually has it easier with that offensive scheme and the skill players they got. And my goodness, it's, and for me, it's just like, no matter how much I can try to discount talent or the arm talent that he's got, he just keeps performing over and over and over and over again, which, and I finally, I'm like, okay, okay, you're good. But we'll see. We'll see once they pay you. - Yeah, exactly. Well, and that's the other question, right? You have, I mean, you look at the numbers and, you know, you and I were succinct and erect in our evaluation of, you know, the Kyler Murray contract. Whether or not you now want to say like he's, you know, still overpaid as a top, you know, 12 quarterback, that's fine. But we saw the, we saw the writing on the wall. I mean, at this point, like, you know, the 45 million or whatever. I know it's like 48 this year, but like the 45 million annual type of thing is, is not crazy. And then when you actually factor in, like, look at what, what Trevor Lawrence is getting, you know, 5, 275. And we're having this conversation and obviously, you know, we're not 49ers fans, so you do whatever you want. But like, can you imagine one, not paying Brock Purdy, but two, paying Brock Purdy 55 million a year, like, and, and if they don't get it done, it's going to happen too. Well, and now, and now we're getting to the point where we're talking about potentially, you know, 56, 57 million a year, because especially if he has a good season next year, right? Like, I mean, we're just getting to the point where these contracts and these numbers are so absurdist that, you know, it's baffling that the foresight wasn't there. And again, if you're, if your response is, I just wouldn't have paid him. OK, I can get that. But when you when people were like, you know, oh, my gosh, he's the highest or third or fourth, whatever it was at the, at the time, paid quarterback, it's like, yeah, the market's going to change drastically in the next year. And in three years, it's going to be like, oh, this is, you know, this is what a top 12 quarterback has to be paid. If you want, I mean, you know, and so that's what's going to be interesting to kind of watch unfold because that, you know, part of what we've talked about and we're already seeing it with with brandy and I who will get too shortly, like, they can't pay everybody. Like that's just the rules. And so how is this going to unfold? Because if you start to take away that, how are they going to, how are they going to be able to deal with it? So, you know, like I said, for me, it's still Stafford and then, and then, you know, but I can get where you're coming from, especially with what you're talking about from the, hey, like, let's just be honest, the guy that's had the most success the last two years is Brock Purdy. And it's not particularly close. No, it's, it's been ridiculous. Like his numbers, like almost every metric you look like you look at and you're like, it's, it's hard to ignore at this point. So I'm like, okay. All right, fine. But the backups, every team has a new backup quarterback this year, Cardinals traded for Desmond Ritter. The Rams have Chibi Garoppolo, familiar face, the 49ers signed Joshua Dobbs. And then the Seattle Seahawks acquired Sam Howell. All have been starting quarterbacks. Now Dobbs is, you know, was the least starter-like. He was given a starting job here last year because of the Kyler-Marie situation. And then he, you know, went into a starting job in Minnesota because of Kirk Cousins injury. But Jimmy Garoppolo was a legitimate starter. Desmond Ritter was drafted to be a starter. You know, Sam Howell was, began the year as a starter for the commanders last year. How would you rake rank those four quarterbacks in terms of backups? You know, it's still tough to not have Jimmy G as the top guy in that situation, especially when you go into the fact that, you know, he playing in that Sean McVay scheme would probably likely be very effective. So I would say he's probably number one. I agree. I have Jim number because he like that himself. He is an above average starter when he's healthy. So I'm like, he's an above average starter. Like he could start for a team. The problem is you can't count on him because of his injuries. Right. And then number two, it just becomes what's your flavor, right? Like from the standpoint of like doing great in a scheme, it's probably dog, right? Just from the situation. But at the same time too, we kind of saw that magic really, really peed her out at the end of the season, right? Like both places like he was, it was almost like, you know what it felt like when it's like he has the best playground football instincts, right? Well, and that's what's funny, you know, and again, I know a lot of people hate quarterback stats or quarterback wins and stuff like that. But for all the, all the bluster, he was three and nine last year as the starter. Yeah. And his numbers like after like he had, he had a few good games, but then like his games, if he were not good in, they were bad. They were bad. And ironically, to that point, they weren't, you know, they weren't like obviously not a shot, but realistic. They weren't like Clayton Tuna against the Browns bad, right? But they were his career averages. So like, like all of a sudden he played to who he's always been. And that's, and that's what's always interesting to me about the whole situation. So that being said, you know, you kind of hit it on the head, like if you put him in in a situation for two games, and that's how we're looking at it, right? Like two to three games, who do you trust to win those two to three games? I think you would say right now it would be, it would be Garoppolo. And then it's, you look at each situation and you go, okay, let's see how this goes. Again, I think for Seattle, you put him at the bottom and not because of same how, but because there's just so much unknown about the situation. Oh, I have how at the bottom because, because of how, because I, he's not that like his seat, like, dog ceiling seemed to be a little bit higher than house, which is crazy. But then how it got replaced by Jacoby Percette. And honestly, I've got Jasmine, I got Desmond Ritter as the number two guy. I don't know how he'll look here, but the fact of the matter is, is that he is a, he's a very mediocre starting quarterback. Okay, he could start and play mediocre. He's eight and nine. He's like, he's super mediocre, 14 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, eight wins, nine losses in two seasons that he started 17 games. Dobbs is, like he looks good and then he's bad and Sam, he looks good and then he's bad. And Desmond Ritter, he's just remarkably mediocre. Well, and that's what it's so funny about the whole situation, right? It's like, if you, if you asked people last year who was the better quarterback, I would assume at least every non, every non, you know, fan or every non fan of the team that had Dobbs would say Dobbs. But the reality is that's not the story the numbers or the situation tell. And that's what, like you said, that's what's kind of ironic about it is that, you know, Ritter is the definition of average, whereas, whereas Dobbs has just never really been good for longer than, you know, maybe a game or two, like you said, like you have those, you have those games. Like the fact that this dude only won three games last year, it's kind of crazy to think about it. I mean, as a starter, he's three and 11. So, you know, we'll see what happens. But I think that there's not a team that's in a better situation. If their starter goes down for an extended period of time, then the Rams. But I think every team is not in a bad position if they need a guide for two games, which is, which is, you know, again, the quarterback situation here or in the NFC West is kind of crazy to just even say that because that's just not how quarterbacking usually works, right? Usually it's like, oh, this, like, if they lose, if they lose party, they're done. Now, obviously, again, whether it's, whether it's, you know, the Cardinals or the Niners, if you lose that starter, you're in trouble. But I don't think we'd be shocked if Josh Dobbs was, you know, one in one or two in one, if he had to start two or three games for the Niners. Right. Coming to next on the Rise of Sea or podcast, Mr. Cardinals talk. And we move on to the running back and receiving rooms in the NFC West. That's coming next in Rise of Sea Red. It's time for today's Lucky Land horoscope with Victoria Cash. Life's gotten mundane, so shake up the daily routine and be adventurous with the trip to Lucky Land. You know what they say. Your chance to win starts with a spin. So go to luckylandslots.com to play over a hundred social casino style games for free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Get lucky today at luckylandslots.com. No purchase necessary. VGW group void were prohibited by law 18 plus terms of condition supply. We're back on the Rise of Sea or podcast, Mr. Cardinals talking about running backs. I think I don't think we need to spend much time. Christian McCaffrey should be and is the number one running back in the NFC West. And I don't think there's any question because you should probably say that he's the number one running back in the NFL. Right? We don't have to argue with that. Yeah. Okay. Two, three, four in terms of the starters. I order them like this. I go James Connor, Chiron Williams, and Kenneth Walker. Now I will say again, this division has some really good running backs. I put Connor just above Chiron Williams because we've also seen him do things in the past game. He wasn't used much in the past game this year, but he is, I believe, a more complete back. And he does have the same type of impact in terms of production. We've seen, year after year, Connor, Connor gets love around the league like one of the top backs in the NFL. And just hasn't played enough games to consistently get that. And I think last year we saw kind of his finest work as a runner. Now, if he can just stay healthy, he's a guy that could, you know, who could rush for 12 through 1,300 yards in a season. Chiron will, but I liked his, he has the ability in the past game to do more. Chiron Williams hasn't done it, but was a beast in the run game. And Ken Walker, just in year two, wasn't as dynamic as he was as a rookie. Well, and that's the interesting thing is, as you said, there's really, you know, no debate or conversation that needs to be had because it's Christian McCaffrey and then everybody else. The debate becomes, do you, because everybody's going to talk about, obviously, the, the injury history of James Connor and like, well, you can't trust him. Chiron Williams, you know, 12 games last year. Again, not anything a shot at him. He's phenomenal. Very, you know, has been very good for what he's done. And then obviously, like you said, from a production standpoint, Kenneth Walker was definitely the lowest rated, but he's also missed time in in both seasons, only played 15 games both seasons. So if you're going to knock Connor, you have to kind of take that same energy with the other guys as well. Now, from that perspective, I would have the same order. I just don't, you know, I think you like the upside of Walker, but last year was a bit of a surprise, right? Like you said, you, you had a rookie year where, you know, over a thousand years, yeah, nine touchdowns. And then last year, he, he barely scraped above four yards per carry. And again, that's kind of what we're saying about the entire situation in Seattle. It's not that it's bad or, or, you know, we think Geno's bad or anything like that. It's just, it's kind of, okay, let's see what happens because we just don't know what this group. If we look at the rooms, if we're going to go by duos now, you've got San Francisco with McCaffrey and Elijah Mitchell, you've got the Cardinals with James Connor and we're going to, we'll presume Trey Benson, but that could also be Michael Carter, Potentially Marody Mercado, but most projectory Benson to be that number two guy. The Rams have Kyron Williams and their rookie Blake Quorum. And then Seattle has Walker and Zach Sharman, a who was a rookie last season. If you were to, who's your top duo of the division for you? Yeah, I think it's still San Francisco. It's tough to, to over sell just how good they are. And, and let's be honest, Elijah Mitchell was a freak. It's just that they don't need him. Right. Right. Like he's a guy that had 900 some on yards as a rookie. Yeah. And, and, but I think that the McCaffrey impact is, is that great? Mitchell could start for a lot of other teams and he's had some injury issues as well. But I would agree, McCaffrey, Mitchell at the top. Who's your number two? Mine's a, I, I'm, while I have Seattle, I have Walker fourth. I like the duo of Walker and Charbonnet a little bit better than the other two teams. And I think it's simply because we saw Charbonnet as a rookie and the other two teams, Cardinals and Rams have rookies projected to be their number two. Yeah. And I think that's fair. I mean, like you said, when you, when you're projecting Kyron Williams and, and again, or not Kyron Williams, sorry, Blake Quorum and Trey Benson, no offense to either of those guys, both very talented. I think both franchises are excited about what they could be. You still have to take what has been over them. And, and, you know, like you said, Zach Charbonnet has been a good NFL running back. So, so I'm with you. I would say it's Seattle. And then, you know, again, it's pick your flavor, like, do you have more faith in Arizona or do you have more faith in, in Los Angeles in terms of who's going to stay healthy? You know, Williams and Quorum both have an injury history. Trey Benson has been mostly healthy through his career. Obviously, we know about James Connor. So, so I think you can give the nod to the Cardinals right now and that with the understanding of like, we're splitting hairs, you know, we're not saying, yeah, I can lose. We're not, we're not saying like, oh, this is a terrible running back room, like we would with the Cardinals a couple of years ago, right? Like we're saying, oh, this is a good running back room. I just want to see a full season of Kyron Williams. I want to see Blake Quorum and the NFL before I give them, you know, flowers above guys that have performed. Right. And in the case, if you needed Benson, if for example, if both Connor and Kyron are out, so you've got Benson and Quorum. Quorum was a very steady producer. Benson's a homerun hitter. Like he, he adds an element that Quorum doesn't quite have. Well, and we haven't seen Quorum look the same since the knee. Last year was, you know, just a haggard season. If you look at his statistics, you know, and so you want to see a full year of him getting back to being that dynamic runner that he was, grievous to the knee injury that like made him kind of look like a three yards in the club to dust runner that he was last year. Go into the receiver position. Who is your number one receiver in the division? Um, you know, it's tough because you'd probably want to say DK Metcalf, but I think through the division and all of that, I don't know, I, is it IU? I mean, I've got IU there. I think like it looked like last year he put it together because he's got, he's got the size. He's got great speed. He's got playmaking. He, he looked like that guy. And for me, I don't even have DK, like DK is, I'll, I have DK fifth. I have DK fifth in the division. Well, and you look at it. I mean, you've got, you've got a guy, you know, so if you go IU one, which I'm fine with, you have Puka Nakua and, and Cooper cop and they're probably your two and three, right? Two and three. And you can probably debate yourself into who you put where. Um, and then I would put, in that case, I would put Metcalf at four. I got Deebo at four. I have Deebo at four. I know. And I would, and I would have him, I would have Metcalf over Deebo simply for the, the reason that I want to see more like, again, kind of like I talked about with Quorum, Deebo hasn't looked the same. You know, he didn't, he lacked that dynamic ability that he had the, the previous season. And they're kind of locked into him just because of, of his salary and, and people are looking at the same way. They're like, I need to see more from him. You know, 15 games, only 892 yards receiving. Last year, you know, only 225 yards rushing, which, you know, isn't at all for most receivers. But, you know, to go from, from a guy that, you know, two years ago, we're in, or sorry, three years ago, technically now in 2021, that was over 1400 yards receiving and over 300 yards rushing with eight rushing touchdowns to under 900 and just over 200. Like, it's a, it's a huge, huge difference. And you kind of have seen the wear and tear. I mean, last year, 15 games the year before that 12 or 13 games, like it, how much longer can he continue to take the beating that he was, even at his size, you know, everybody talks about the fact, you know, you're talking about a guy at six foot 220 pounds, built like a running back. You know, it, the usage and the touches, how are they going to line up? And, and that year that he was an all pro, you know, he had 136 touches and those those touches have reduced each of the last year. I mean, last year, he played 15 games and only had 97 touches total. The year before that, he played in 13 games and had 98 touches. He's only got one year where he's, you know, played a full season. That's my question about Debo, but I, you know, I think again, you're split in Harris because they're four and five. So who cares? Yeah. Well, and except I, I don't have, let me see. Oh, nevermind. I have DK six because I put, oh, I put Harrison above DK. Yeah. And, and I think you could probably slot Harrison in above both Debo and DK, but I'm always, you know, like I've said, all along, like I'll always acquiesce to guys that have actually done it. It makes sense, but Harrison's a special God, like, we've like the receiver season seasons we've seen from from rookies. The talent that Harrison is the role he's going to play what we're expecting out of Kyler Murray. I mean, I think DK, I still think is more one trick pony than Harrison is. And I think that his, he's had good seasons. He had the one great season, but I think I think Harrison has a potential to do a real have a real special rookie season. Not saying like Puka's rookie, but really impactful, really impactful. Yeah. And that's the hope, right? I mean, that's, I don't want to say the expectation, but, but that's the hope when you draft somebody that high that he comes in, and especially when you're talking about a position group that was so bad. And now you can, you can look at it and go, okay, how does that work? That's why it's always interesting too, is because, you know, you look at it and you rank the entire group now, right? And you, you have Ayuk one. And even if I, you know, say Ayuk one, the next two guys are the Rams. Yeah. And so my, my, my, like, I ranked nine receivers, because actually, like, so Ayuk Puka Cup, Debo, Harrison, DK, then I go, Jackson Smith and Jigba, Tyler Lockett, who's still fantastic. And then I do say Jones, and I, you know, I still say, say Jones perhaps is a better receiver than Michael Wilson, though Michael Wilson, I think, will have the bigger role in the bigger year. I'm not ready to push him over that. So I've got nine, and Seattle's the only team that's got three, their top three receivers in, in that entire group. Right. And so I would say, that's the interesting thing is I would say, I would, here's the thing, I would rank the Rams as the top group, because unless Cup is just, you know, I don't want to say done, but, you know, so slow down at this point that he can't get back to what he was, or even close to what he was before, then they have two of the top three, as you mentioned. And then I Seattle first, because I like, yeah, you like all three. I like the top three. I think, I think lock it as their third is significantly better than any other team in their third. But here's what I'll say. And this goes back to, again, like the uncertainty of things. I would put Seattle in front of San Francisco because we don't even know if I use going to be there. That's true. I, I'm, I'm, I'm ranking these for me based on, based on, like, down there. And so they've got Iug, Debo, and Joanne Jennings, which is, and I, I actually put them just above the Rams because of the Rams third receiver situation, which is what, the markets Robinson. Yeah, probably. And that's, I'm very, on the markets Robinson. And that's why it'll be interesting to see how this unfolds for them, because, you know, the, the situation as is, is probably not tenable for them, right? Like, they got to figure out what they're going to do, or end up losing an important piece to the roster. And, and so we'll see how that plays out. But yeah, I think, I think I would go Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco. And I think we both agree, like, I don't think we have to debate why we put the Cardinals at the bottom. I was going to say, I think we're both bullish on their, their potential to be above the bottom, but we're also both realistic enough to say that it's, they'll probably be at the bottom to start. I mean, it is, I think division wise, I think they're clearly the bottom. It's just that at least this year, hopefully that group is an awful, that's, that's the hope that you, what you want to see, what you love to see is, you know, Harrison have 11, 200 yard, 11 to 1200 yards, or some of Torbets, 1100 and 1300 yards, that you get, like, I don't know, like, you get six to 800 yards from Michael Wilson, six to 800 yards from Zagio, six to 800 yards from Greg George, right? Since we don't know how that's going to play out. But if you can get six to eight or five to 800 yards from the other three guys, when nobody, nobody got to 600 yards, that was, and so yeah, you know, you get that top production from Harrison, and then you get decent production out of the rest. You don't need a go to number two, so we don't need 2000 yard guys, especially the way, especially got Trey McBride, you still, you still have Trey McBride in the tight end position. So yeah, that's, and with that, coming to next on the Rise of Sierra podcast, this is our Cardinals talk on the weather. So we want to talk about the last two units on the offense, and we've got tight end and offensive line that's coming to next on Rise of Sierra. Okay, round two, name something that's not boring. laundry, a book club, computer solitaire, huh? Ah, sorry, we were looking for Chumba Casino. That's right. Chumba Casino.com has over 100 casino style games, join today and play for free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Chumba Casino.com. No, we're just gonna say, we're going to do it by law 80 plus strategic edition supply. See what's out for details. We're back on the Rise of Sierra podcast, best our Cardinals talk on the weather. Let's look at the tight end rooms. We're going to talk the top four tight ends, then we'll look at the top four duos of tight ends. And would you still, I, you know, I still put George Hill at the top because he's done it and he does it well like every part. He's a fantastic blocker. He's still, you know, even the down years that he's had, he still was so impact, impactful. And if we look at his last season, he cracked, he cracked 1000 yards again. He didn't have the number of catches that Trey McBride had 65 catch for over 1000 yards as opposed to Trey McBride's 81 catches for 825 yards. But yeah, I put Kittle, it's up, then I follow Trey McBride. Would you still do that going into this season? Well, maybe, like, maybe, maybe I should think like the way I did about Kyler Murray and say, okay, projecting this season McBride will be better. And maybe, maybe we should rank them one A, one B, maybe both number ones. I think you still give Kittle the nod. I mean, it's fair. He's done it for longer. We want to see Trey do it for a full season, right? Like, that's always our big things is, you know, a guy like Kittle, and it's always so weird to think about that this dude's been around for this is his eighth season, because it just doesn't seem like it, right? But it's really hard to put Trey McBride over a guy that has been to the last three Pro Bowls, and then the last, each of the last two seasons been on the all Pro Team. Like, it's just one, it's not fair to McBride. Like, you still have to get to that level, right? And then two, it's not fair to Kittle in the sense of, you know, like, why are we like, he's right? Like, you're talking like he is over the last of like, you say, Kelsey, Kittle, and Mark Andrews, those are the best Titans in the NFL. And that's what we're, yeah, that's what we're hopeful for with Trey. And the interesting thing is, and the one thing we've seen for a while about the Titan position, right, is that they can play for a while. And so the fact that Kittle will be 31 this year, I don't think it's as big of a deal as normal, but like you said, I think it definitely is, you know, from the Titan perspective, you look at it, it's Kelsey, Kittle, and Andrews. And then the next generation is, is, you know, it's Hawkins and it's it's LaPorda and McBride. And, and, you know, it'd be crazy awesome to see the Cardinals have a guy in that because, you know, you're, you're obviously a little bit older than me, but the reality is, is that Jay Nova check was the last, you know, good Arizona car, and that was the Phoenix Cardinals tied in, right? Yes. He ended up with those damn Dallas Cowboys. And so to see, to even have the discussion that the Cardinals have the clear in a way, second best tied in in the division with the trajectory pointing towards him, potentially becoming the best Titan as soon as this year, that's awesome to even like be able to talk about because it's just not something we've ever seen with this, this franchise. And then the rest, the other two guys, you've got Tyler Higginby and, and Noah Fant, both excellent, both solid, but you know what they are, they're absolutely unspectacular. And in fact, Tyler Higby had like, he had that one year, a few years back, and you're like, oh, great. And then he's been magnificently, okay, since then, Higby's okay, no offense, okay. But there's not like the gap between McBride and both of them is significant. Well, and Higby's another one that's interesting because, I mean, he's going into year nine, and he's going to be 32 this year. And, and it's just crazy to think about that because, like you said, he had that 2019 season where he had 734 yards and you're going, okay, this guy is, you know, that was his age 26. And it was like, this guy's about to break out like he's going to be a problem for everybody. And then, you know, and I couldn't remember if he got injured. And obviously he's missed some games. So he's had some injuries, but like, there was no catastrophic injury that led to that. It was just, you know, went from over 700 yards to 520 560, you know, our two years ago, 620. But last year, under 500 yards in 15 games, like he's obviously at the, at the end of that career at this point. And, and, you know, it's, it's really interesting. And then Fant, like he said, he's a, he's a good player. You know, he's the youngest outside of McBride of this group. But, I mean, his career high, 673 yards. And that was, that was literally four years ago. Yeah. And his production has dipped since then. So I'm 673 to 670 to 46 to 414. And, and, you know, like you said, he hasn't even eclipsed 500 yards in two full healthy seasons. And again, health is relative, but he's played in every game for the Seattle Seahawks. So, you know, and again, we'll find out about the Seahawks more. You know, it's, I know it feels like we're crapping on them a lot. The reality is it's, it's just, it's really difficult when you go from a gut, you know, having a system. And I know Pete Carroll wasn't the offensive guy, but having a system for over a decade. And now it's, we'll see what happens because we have no idea. Yeah. And then if we look at the duos, the top duos. So in San Francisco, you got George Kittle, and they added Logan Thomas. You've got Tyler Higabe, they added Colby Parkinson. You've got Trey McBride, you've got Elijah Higgins. And then tip, tip, Ryman, I'm not going to put him as number two yet. And then you've got Noah Fant and Pharaoh Brown, whom they added this off season. I don't think it, I don't think that's any question that, that we should say that the top, that the duo of Kittle and Thomas is by far the best, right? Oh, yeah. That's, that's, yeah. Number one with the bullet. And, you know, from there, I think it's not what we Parkinson hasn't been bad, but he is, you know, unspectacular. Right. But you've got Higabe and Parkinson, which are two solid, but unspectacular, McBride, you've got great. And then promising Higgins, and then you've got Fant, unspectacular, and Brown, sort of a guy. Right. So I would probably say it's still the Niners, obviously, like we said, with the bullet. And then I would probably go, if I had to really pick, I would probably go Cardinals. That might be the Homer and me in that sense. I actually put the Rams ahead of the Cardinals, but that is, you know, Higgins is a wild card in this because he did look really good at the end of last year. We're not, we're, we're talking any other year that Trey McBride doesn't do it, we would be gushing about Elijah. Higgins going to this year, like Dan Arnold, or Ricky Seals Jones, or, right, exactly. Every, every late season productive tight end, we're like, he's the guy. But no, we've got the guy that's Trey McBride. And so Higgins has potential, but I, I, I'm, I'm going to go with two solid, unspectacular, over uncertain in this case. Which I think is fair. And then we go to the offensive line. Let's go by position. And then the units. I look in at left tackle. There's no question. It's Trent Williams. He's number one. Who do you put his number two though? And here are the left tackles in the NSC West. You've got Trent Williams in San Francisco. You've got Charles Cross in Seattle. You've got Alaric Johnson, Jackson in LA now, Paris Johnson in Arizona. Who do you put his your number two behind Trent? You know, I would probably for now put, put cross. I don't love it. I'm putting Paris down. I'm like, I, I mean, he played solid right tackle. And I think he's going to be a better left tackle than he was a right tackle. Yeah. And I respect that. I, I'll give the nod to, to Cross right now. And then, you know, obviously adjust once I see Paris play. The thing with Cross is, is that, you know, he took a step back from a really solid rookie season. And some of it was injury. So we'll see how that kind of plays out this year and, and what he looks like. But I'd go Frost and then Alaric Jackson would be my number four. What about Ed left guard? We're Arizona. You've got, we're presuming Evan Brown. The Rams have Jonah Jackson. You've got Aaron Banks in San Francisco. And you've got Lake and Tomlinson in Seattle, the newcomer, former 49er, former jets adding to the mix there. Who's your number one left guard? You know, it's probably banks. Just looking. It's hard. I got Jonah Jackson. I got Jonah Jackson. Oh, yeah. I forgot they brought in Jonah. You're right. You're right. Right. I forgot about them adding Jonah Jackson to that group. Yeah. I mean, you're talking about guys in this group where, you know, you have, you have some really solid players. But I think Jackson's the only guy that is probably at the level of like, I don't want to say all pro because he's not, but you know, a pro bowl level guy. The other guys are, you know, they're fine. I think I'm not sure whether to put, I gave Laken. I gave Tomlinson a slight edge over banks, but I, that's real close. Laken's been doing it longer. Banks is the guy that took over for Tomlinson when they let him go. And Evan Brown, like the Cardinals. Sorry. Evan Brown is going to be solid, but he's, he's the number four. But that, that means this division is pretty okay at left guard. Yeah. Well, and he's just got to earn it. Right. Like that's just the reality of it. And at center, the Cardinals have yelled a throwhold. The 49ers have Jake Brenda. And the Seahawks and the Rams will have new centers. Steve Avila, last year's second round pick is going to be their starting center. And the Seahawks, because Evan Brown left inside with Cardinals, it's either going to be old, old with Timmy or the guy that they sent. I was just talking to the Seahawks guy. Dang it. I forgot his name. Hold on. I got, I got to pull it up right here. Nick Harris, Nick Harris, Nick Harris. And, and, and talking to Tim Waver, we're going to lean old with teaming. Who's your number one center? Because I think it's got to be yelled at. I put Brenda just ahead of him. Yeah. I mean, I, but I was real close to putting yelled at, like, which tells me, like, remember last off season, we were talking about, they signed, what's a yelled a throwhold? And, and right. They're not, they're, they can't go into this season with yelled a throwhold as their starter. Okay. All right. All right. That was a very nice addition. I give Brenda just ever slightly the edge to overeat them. Yeah. I'm going to go with for a whole because I think the pieces around, uh, Brenda are better and for a whole still perform better, if that makes sense. So, uh, but I think those two are unquestionable one and two. And then that's the hard part is I think you would probably rank a villa three. Yes. But he's, I mean, he was okay at guard. Like he wasn't great by any means. And to now, I don't know what the wording I'm looking for is, but like to expect him to become um, he was, I mean, he was projected to be a great center. No, no, I'm not disagreeing with that. But he hadn't done it. Right. And that's, and you know, it's kind of the same thing I've said with Paris, like I, I'll give the nod to a guy that's done it, you know, over the guy that I think has far greater upside, but has not done it yet. So that would be what's interesting to watch. And then, and then Olu, uh, yeah, I don't. Yeah. I had no idea. Like genuinely no. He was one of the guys we looked at when the Cardinals were going to, we thought the Cardinals were going to draft a center and then, and then didn't drop the center. So, oh, they did. I guess they drafted John Means, but yeah, right guard. Okay. Here's how I have the right guards branked. You've got number one, Kevin Dotson, the very, very rich Kevin Dotson, followed by Will Hernandez, followed by, uh, it doesn't matter which one, whether it's John Feliciano or Spencer Berford in San Francisco, followed by the unknown, whether it's going to be Anthony Bradford or their rookie Christian Haynes in Seattle. That's how I have them rained. Yeah. And I would agree with that. I mean, I don't think that there's really a whole lot to debate on that position. Uh, Dotson's obviously the best Hernandez is obviously the second best and everything else is. Okay. Let's see what you guys can do. At right tackle. Okay. I have the Cardinals. I got Joe Williams, number one right tackle, number one right tackle over Rob Havenstein in Los Angeles. Yeah. And Havenstein is just, I mean, he's kind of at the end, right? I mean, he's, he's very good. He's very solid. Yeah, I think that's a better way to put it. Very solid. He's been solid for a long time, but the reality is that he is a guy that, you know, is, uh, 30 going to be 30 or he just turned 32. Um, and he slowed down quite a bit and really, really kind of struggled at the end of the season when they needed him to step up. And so we'll see kind of how that, that plays out. I mean, this is a guy that if he, if he retired, I don't think anybody would be shocked, right? Right. Like he is, and it's not that he can't do it anymore. But I mean, you're talking about a 32 year old that's played just a massive, massive amount of games in his career, been healthy, been successful. Like he said, solid, unspectacular career. Um, you know, no pro goals, no all pros, 130 games in his career, all at right tackle for the Rams. Um, you know, one, basically one season where he wasn't healthy. Nothing wrong with that. Just some, sometimes you wish you wish you had that on the team. Um, how do you rank? So, uh, for the Seahawks, I'm going to, I'm, I'm using George Fant instead of a Lucas, because there's major concern about a Lucas's viability moving forward with his knee injury, which is why the Seahawks went and got George Fant. So you've got Colton McKibbitz in San Francisco and George Fant in Seattle. Who do you give the edge over? Do you give it to McKibbitz or to Fant? I'd probably give it to McKibbitz. It's not that I dislike Fant. It's just that, you know, he's what? And when you, when you can't win starting jobs in, in bad places or when teams are on the upswing, like we saw with like Houston last year, then going to a team like Seattle that's, you know, kind of in a similar situation. Um, you know, and again, this dude's 32, like he's going to be 32 in two weeks, like it's not like he's a spring cricket anymore. So it'll just be interesting. And again, a guy like Fant has carved out an amazing career as an undrafted free agent out of Western Kentucky. I mean, the fact that this dude's been in the NFL for seven seasons, played in 99 games, started 73 games, like that's unbelievable. And he just kind of at the end right now. So now, how do you crank the units? Here's how I have mine. If you're talking about the unit as a whole, I got San Francisco. I've got Arizona, but it's pretty close. Then I got LA and then I got Seattle. Seattle is largely expected to have a terrible offensive line. It's ranked very lowly. But I, I, I like Arizona's offensive line. But San Francisco's like their left side is just really good. I like the Cardinals tackle situation and their right guard and their center is pretty solid. But I just like, I think San Francisco as a unit just continues to be, I mean, it's, it's hard to say anything other than that, but based on the way that offense produces. Yeah. And so I think you're right with that. I think it, I think you look at it and you say it's San Francisco, it's, it's Arizona. You could probably put the Rams in front of the Cardinals if you, if you really buy into Avila, right? Yeah. Like if you, if you buy into Avila, that he's going to be average to above and then. Yeah, John Jackson, I have like, I like Paris Johnson more than like Jackson. And I like yelled them more than, than Avila. And technically I have Jonah or if it haven't Williams over heaven, Stein, but you, I mean, they've got the best guards. Right. And so that's what it comes down to. So I mean, I think it's San Francisco and the strength of San Francisco isn't the overall line. That's the funniest part. I don't think, I just think that how good Trent Williams is makes it like, Oh, this whole team is good. Because, you know, if Williams is out and obviously you could say this about any player that's the best, you know, the best player in the NFL at his position, but like if Williams goes down, there's a realistic conversation that they're the worst offense of line. And so that's, that's what's so hard because so much of it weighs on one guy, whereas like the Rams, like you said, that right side especially and then and then potentially Jonah Jackson with, you know, getting back to what he was the year previous. And we'll see with Avila, because the Cardinals have Will Hernandez, who is really good, bordering on great. You have Harris Jackson, who's everybody's excited for. And you have Jonah Williams, who's again, good. And then we just talked about for a whole, was an anomaly last year, but we go back to earlier conversations of we need to see it in year two, right? Like, this has to be a two year thing and not the anomaly of like, Oh, he was just the best of a bad offensive line. And instead be like, Oh, this guy's really, really good. So, but yeah, I think, I think you go San Francisco, Arizona, L.A. And realistically, you could put those three in any order. And I don't think anybody would be too upset. And with that, we will wrap up this edition of the rise of Sierra podcast, Mr. Cardinals talk on the web. We have ranked the offenses of the NFC West. We'll be back later this week to rank the defenses that said Cox, I'm just root. Thanks for listening us all who we've back in a couple of days. Thanks for listening to the latest edition of the rise up Sea Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes and subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts, Stitcher Radio, audio boom, or many other podcast platforms. So shows are delivered directly to your mobile device. Please give the show a five star rating and always support the sponsors to support the show. 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