The Rise Up, See Red podcast

Kyler Murray talk, Arizona's offensive potential and training camp coming!

After a bit of a summer hiatus, Jess and Seth were back to talk about Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray. They discussed what Colin Cowherd brought up recently with the stigma of gaming, Murray as a dark-horse MVP candidate, what Murray said about being a top offense and what to know about training camp starting in July.

Duration:: 49m
Broadcast on:: 27 Jun 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

It's time for today's Lucky Land horoscope with Victoria Cash. Life's gotten mundane, so shake up the daily routine and be adventurous, with a trip to Lucky Land. You know what they say. Your chance to win starts with a spin. So go to luckylandslots.com to play over 100 social casino-style games for free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Get lucky today at luckylandslots.com. No purchase necessary. BGW Group void were prohibited by law, 18 plus terms of condition supply. [MUSIC] This is the Rise Up Sea Red Podcast, all about the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives. Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the web. Now here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox. [MUSIC] Hello Arizona Cardinals fans and welcome to the latest edition of the Rise Up Sea Red Podcast. The best hour of Cardinals Talk on the web. I'm your host, Jess Root from cardswire.com, the USA Today NFL Wiresight that covers your Arizona Cardinals. It's been a couple of weeks. Seth Cox is with me from revengeofthebirds.com, SB Nation's Arizona Cardinals site. And my goodness, it's been, it's been a hot minute since we've been doing stuff at summertime. Not that there's been much to talk about, but Seth, how have you been taking the time off? Although this is tough content time. Yeah, just busy. I mean, football still five nights a week and so it's been a hot, quiet break in terms of, like you said, content, but real life keeps you busy and keeps you moving forward. And so we'll see how that goes as we get into the busier season. I mean, we've got what about three weeks left till things actually start to heat up while we get through and start, get to the start of training camp. Yes, and we will talk about a little bit of training camp. We've got the schedule coming out, but some content came upon us. In this edition of the show, we're on episode 546. Seth and I are recording obviously this show. I'm going to, I'm going to record another with Howard Balzer to talk more about Kyle and Murray later on in the week as that has been the, the topic of conversation. And that is, it seems like after all the positive vibes, everything positive this off season, best off season ever, Kyle or says, it really seems on the, on the outside that one of two things has happened. Either the organization finally is all in on Kyler and have stopped talking about things that were concerned or two, if those concerns were real, he's kind of gotten over him. But Colin Calvert on his podcast brought up, brought up a concept. And for Cardinals fans, you're probably tired of hearing it. It's the whole video game thing. And it comes back in, it's like about the notion that cow herd who, who is, who is chummy with Steve Kime, who has contacts around the league, he said that he's talked to a lot of people around the league. And the general consensus about Murray is no way out, like, like the entire league is out on Kyler Murray. And he points to kind of something, he goes to talks about the therapist, it talks about the, the issue with gaming and gamers, how video gaming, how gaming in general is it tends to be bad for marriages. And you know, there's a stigma that follows it. And he says, he's accurate, he's a playmaker, he's got a poorly owned franchise to the, he took, he got a poorly owned franchise to the playoffs and a tough division. I think the gaming thing is a huge stigma. I think older GMs look at it and say, Jesus, throw the f up, like this guy's a gay guy's addicted to gambling. And he talks a little bit more as well, he says, quarterback people says he's the best high school football player ever. He wins the Heisman, he gets Arizona the playoffs, the fans don't like him, the media doesn't like him, the execs don't like his owner doesn't like him. I've never seen a player this talented, nobody saying be patient, people just bailed on him. And he says, my take on Kyler is he's the most talented quarterback in my life that has no support group. And he points to George Love, he didn't even play for three years. And he was terrible in September and his fourth year and I was like, give him time. And it's weird that this comes up. I honestly, I don't know why Colin brought it up in the first way. Actually, I recall it. The reason the context is because Craig Morgan, a guy that we all know quite well from his time around reporting in the Valley, mostly hockey, he's done all the other sports, he just joined the PHF and X and had an interview with Bruce Arians who talked about Kyler Murray and said kind of the jury's still out, he's still in the Valley and brought a concern. So they have Arians typically does. And he talks about it, he didn't say anything bad about Kyler other than the fact, well, guys that use their legs, it comes to a point where they have to use their brain in the arms is that kids Murray gonna be able to do that. And that's kind of what brought this up. How surprised were you, Seth? What did you take away from the comments and then the conversation that has come since then? I think a lot of it is just that people put expectations out there. And then if they're not met right away, you know, it's like, oh, we're gonna discard this guy. And a lot of it comes down to a couple things, like you said, you know, there's there is still a stigma around black quarterbacks. I mean, let's be honest, there still is. They get, I mean, we've seen people still criticizing Lamar Jackson after winning two MVPs, because well, he's, you know, never made a Super Bowl, because it's the easiest thing ever. I mean, especially since it's just been Patrick, my homes in Tom Brady, guys, stop it. Yeah, you know, so we get that you get, you know, you've got guys criticizing now, you know, Justin Herbert, who's been one of the most successful young quarterbacks in the history of the NFL from from a statistical standpoint, because again, like, well, why aren't you winning games? You know, like, how do you, how do you put up all these numbers, but you never actually win? And you're like, okay, well, I mean, I guess like, and then, you know, you have the other side of the coin, where you've got, you know, Kirk Cousins, who people dislike, and all he does is put up stats in win games. It's like, but he's not. And so I just think that the quarterback position more than probably any in all of sports is the easiest to criticize him when people don't like or agree with how somebody behaves, whether it's on the field or off the field, then it becomes like, Oh, well, this or this or this, and that that becomes kind of who they are. And that becomes basically all that's thought of that. You know, for for Kyler, I think he, he came in the league played really well and then had some issues, but he never really like, he's never bought, right? Like, even his bad season was when you look at it from that average, right? Right. It was very average. Like, you've never looked at him and gone. Like, comparatively, take a look at Josh Dobbs when he was bad. Josh Dobbs bad was a horrific, there's lots of young quarterbacks when you go back over the years, you look like you look at their, their, their low end, their floor play, and it is abysmal, abysmal like guys, we go back to Blaine Gabbard, you know, 15 years ago, 13 years ago, there were times he looked like he felt like didn't know how to play football on the field. And he turned into a very, very, very successful NFL career as a backup. But like, when he was first playing that rookie year, there were things you're like, does he even know how to play football? And you never got that for Maria, aside, aside from the frustration in the playoff game against the Rams, there were a couple of plays. But those are the same, like Matthew Stafford had, remember that, that ill-advised end zone throw, like I picked off return for touchdown. Matthew Stafford's done the exact same thing too. And he's, you know, one of the greatest ever, they say. Yeah. And it's just, you know, there's, there's things that stick with people, or like you said, there are times when people get basically they're done from the sense of like, hey, we're, we're never going to change our thoughts on you, right? Like this is, this is who you are. This is what we're always going to think of you. And I think we're seeing that, you know, with, with Kyle or in a lot of ways, because there are still people that bring up, well, you know, the Rams playoff game. It's like, have you seen Peyton Manning's first playoff games? Manning was bad in those, but for me, the takeaway was this, I did not view any, like personally, as I was listening to the comments after the fact, and people are talking about this tired take. I didn't, you know, Colin didn't have the tired take. He was commenting about the, the perception of Murray around the league, and among executives. And we've talked about that on this show, people like, people don't like Kyler, like, we're not talking about people in general, we're talking about, like, general managers, there was something going on behind the scenes in the organization, which led to that slander that came out, you know, before the Super Bowl. He's a finger pointer. He's a bad leader. He's got bad study habits. Obviously, we've got the, the study clause and the contract. And, and when Colin says something, the fans don't like it. We've seen that there are, there are, there are a number of players. There are a number of fans that just like, we've seen this pocket of fans who have never accepted Kyler. The media doesn't like him. You know, we've got the Crotched Hill media members who, who critique the way he is, execs don't like him. Steve Kyle, apparently, you know, Steve Kyle, I think, tolerated him. Michael, this is his owner doesn't like him. We've never heard anything from Michael Biddle to suggest that. However, the fact that he put that study clause in me, makes it seem like he was reacting to things that might or might not have been true. The kind of the idea is, for some reason, Kyler has come into the league without like, as exciting as he is, like the 30 plus crowd, they are, they don't love Kyler. He's too short. He's a midget. He doesn't take serious things seriously. And a lot of it is because he doesn't talk the way he doesn't talk the way like Tom Brady or Carson Palmer, like guys that stand up in the media and are then affable. Kyler doesn't like he won. He doesn't care. He doesn't care what players, he doesn't care what the adults think. He's wildly popular amongst the young people and it shows in how he treats young people. They matter to him. But like, he will bristle at questions. He's been asked a million times. He brushes off questions and he comes across as a sore loser sometimes. There's been many quarterbacks that have been like that before, but it's just, I think, I think it's been a case of expectation. A guy like Kyler and he took heat because he plays video games a lot. He got, he was part of the phase clan, you know, three years ago. Although, I'll say I haven't heard anything about his gaming in, in a couple of years. There's been nothing. And so they have like, Oh, Call of Duty this and there was the analytics they did when there was a new, when there was something new dropped on Call of Duty, how his play dropped like that. But it's just because he was so highly touted and and even though the offense he was playing and people criticized the offense and yet they still made it to the playoffs, because he hasn't won one games consistently and to his like his statistical things, we haven't gotten those video game production. Like, we've been waiting for it. Like, Kyler's the type of guy where we figure, we believe could be a 5000 totally yards guy could rush for 1000 throw for 4000 or some combination of that where he could put up 5000 and 40 touchdown 5000 combined yards 40 touchdowns year after year kind of like the Patrick Mahomes. And he hasn't done that his his numbers, his efficiency numbers are great, but his volume numbers are very average. He took the Cardinals to the playoffs. They were terrible in that playoff game. And I think it's those two things. He has neither shown that he's a consistent winner in the NFL, because his teams have been awful. And two, he hasn't put up mad numbers and he hasn't and that's kind of the thing that's holding him back for perception. Although he's proving to be a quarterback, he doesn't give a flip about numbers. He's capable of doing it, but he just wants to win games. Right. And that's the hard part, right? Like, people don't love that he's not. Well, he doesn't he can be like Patrick Mahomes, but he's in a Patrick McHomes. And so people are expecting Patrick Mahomes numbers. Well, and people get. I think you said it before, like they get kind of weird when he's he he doesn't kind of go with what they expect or want, right? Like, when they he does his own thing and doesn't necessarily play the game the way that they expect it to be played. And I'm talking about off the field, like it's something that doesn't endear him to people and that that bothers, especially old head media, right? Like you just, they want they want guys that I don't I don't know how to explain it. They just they don't always enjoy the way Kyler behaves or what or his aloofness or the fact that he's not you know, he's not the media darling for them or you know, or he does push back or he you know, he does kind of scoff at them. And so it's just an interesting thing because it's it's weird to see a guy that's never had really any issues. Not being braced like he hasn't been, right? And I will say this, Arizona is really bad about this. Arizona sports in general. Let's look at some of the top picks and how they were never fully embraced. Now, Kyler got himself paid so good for him. DeAndre eight went through the exact same thing for the Phoenix Suns. You go back a decade to there is a dime of backs just enough to all productive players, but being number one picks, they didn't live up to their savior status. And fans here, especially, if you don't live up to these whatever expectations that there are, they will they'll turn on them. You know, they'll turn on them. Like how many people thought we should bail out on Kyler after that playoff loss? Like we've been consistent in saying that the success that the Cardinals had, all the success that the Cardinals had under Cliff Kingsbury, we can we can we can give Kyler the credit for that success. I think that's fair to say is that and the games when Colt McCoy started and they were efficient and things like that, just understand this. The reason why the quarterback with the issues they had in the front office, the coaching staff, Kyler elevated this team. It was the offense was Kyler, please do something for us. And yet then he needed he needed a top receiver. He needed the DeAndre Hopkins to to be dynamic dynamic, but like it's been the Kyler show on offense. And you look at his the efficiency numbers without him, you know, what they were doing before. And the injury set him back, obviously, but I think the injury did numbers for that that adversity change things for him personally. And what whether it was just the timeliness of his age, he has now fully embraced everything about the quarterback role. And and he maybe he just wasn't ready emotionally to do that because he's not a super good now. He he fully feels like he's a vocal leader rather than just, you know, vibing with the the top guys, like the zacker, which is in the James Connor and the DeAndre Hopkins on the team and the Christian Kirk's, he's now reaching out to all team members. He's leading all team members. And you know, I always theorize this. They didn't coach him like when they brought him in the league, the way the Cardinals handled him. The result that we got is a lot of their fault because the coaching staff didn't they they did. Larry Fitzgerald kind of hinted at this at one point, privately in a conversation that basically he was he got the red carpet, which was fine because he was he was a quarterback. But I always felt the Cliff Kingsbury was like he was thrilled to have Kyler after years of coveting and recruiting and he finally had him. And the type of coach he was wouldn't push him wouldn't say, Hey, I want this out of you. Kyler is used to being coached hard. Jonathan Ganon has been a life has been has been a godsend for him because his brand of coaching he the things that he demands, the expectations is exactly what Kyler needed and it's bringing him into his own. And so I agree with the fact that with with Cal heard, it's a stigma. It's the stigma. It's nothing about Kyler himself that is actually real. That is that is whole that is about his reputation. It's about the stigma people, you know, people hate video games. You can't be successful if you ever gamer. Come on guys, every NFL player plays video games. Like just because you and I are not like because the gaming the gaming we experience as young people was so different. We played games by ourselves or someone had to come over and play with us. It's a completely different world. Video gaming is a social thing now that is common. It's big business. But yeah, it's it's more stigma than anything else. It's nothing about Kyler and his personality. It's just that facet about him from three years ago is just sticking around. And I think it'll carry it'll carry on with him to some degree until one of two things happens, the winning or the mad statistics. Right. And I think the other thing is that we, you know, overlook at times is that like you said, the whole video game stigma, things like that. And I know it's a different sport and things like that. But I mean, most of the NBA, they smoke weed. A very high percentage of NFL players smoke weed. And so it's not always. The stigma that it once was of like, oh, well, he's a, you know, he's a pot head. So he's just lazy, right? Like that's and so but I think that people look at, like you said, the release of things and they're like, oh, look, he doesn't play as well when this releases. So, so obviously he's playing too much attention to video games and not enough. And then the homework clause, that was always, that was always just such a weird, you know, and it was like, that's Michael Bidwill, you know, trying to stick something into a contract, reacting to a perception. I'm like, who really thought, who really thought that in three years, two pro bowls, a rookie of the year, that this kid wasn't studying because right, if he wasn't, and he was playing him and wow, just look at what he did. Look at what he did. That's that's absurd. That's absurd. Right. Exactly. Coming to next on the Rise Up Series podcast, Mr. Cardinal stock on the web, we're going to move on talk a little bit more about Kyler Murray, but in a better sense, dark horse MVP. That's coming next on Rise Up Series. It is Ryan Seacrest here. There was a recent social media trend, which consisted of flying on a plane with no music, no movies, no entertainment, but a better trend would be going to Chumbakocino.com. It's like having a mini social casino in your pocket. Chumbakocino has over 100 online casino style games, all absolutely free. It's the most fun you can have online and on a plane. So, grab your free welcome bonus now at Chumbakocino.com. Sponsored by Chumbakocino. No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Void, we're prohibited by law. 18 plus terms and conditions apply. We're back on the Rise Up Series podcast, but start with Cardinal stock on the web. Kyler Murray in the news for, you know, stigma, but there's a good one. And that's, this comes from NFL.com's Judy Batista published a couple of days ago on, on Monday, and she gave eight dark horse MVP candidates. And that included none other than the Cardinals. Kyler Murray. There was a while back when, when we first saw MVP odds, when the futures odds first came out from, from the different bet, those different sports books. And Kyler at 50 to one, we said, hey, that's a really good bet because of a number of things. One, just value. You get good value for someone who's a quarterback because quarterback's went MVPs who, you know, in years, we've seen MVP level play. He's in the second year of an offense. You know, and the boy, he played down the stretch. You're like, this is, this would be a good value pick. I mean, I'm not saying Kyler Murray winning MVP would be, would be amazing because if the Cardinals, it would mean if the, if Kyler Murray were, were the MVP, it would mean the Cardinals were having an amazing season. That said, I totally buy him as a dark horse candidate because the offense looks like it could be good. And he's like, he's all in on, he's all in on this offense and this team. It's going to be, it's going to be fun. It's going to be fun. Yeah. And it looks like, like you said, that he's in a different mindset with this group and it seems like he's more engaged in that they're more engaged as a group, which is, I think one of the things that people missed about the previous things is that there was a little dissension and or everybody wasn't on the same page. There was some selfishness and out for me that we saw under the last regime. So, so this one where everybody's kind of buying in and, and, you know, Bruce Ariane said as much on, on that podcast, that was super interesting to me is that he was like, when everybody's answering the same way, they're, they are, the message is the same, right? They're all on the same page. And you know, it doesn't mean that it's going to be that way forever. We've talked about this before. One of the reasons the Lions have, have, you know, been able to have that success and move on up as they have is because of, of actually winning. So, that's kind of the next step in the, in this evolution is that the culture, and it seems like everything is, is positive in, you know, as they say, the vibes are immaculate, but they also have to start winning. Yes, that is the next step. So, the message is on point. If they progress and win more games, you keep that buy-in. This is, this was a truly different off season because no, there were no problems. The Cardinals had no distractions this off season. This is the first time in years we haven't had distractions with the off season. But, and that is because it is a coaching staff that preaches a message of unity and teamwork. They experienced late, they were competitive, they shed late success, and there's progress. There's, there's hope, because Tyler Murray's coming back for full year. So, everyone's bought in. So, even, even when James Connor is in a contract year, Buddha Baker's in a contract year, and a year after he held out, wanting a new contract, there's no problems. And, yeah, that, that is the next step. They've got to, this team needs to be a playoff content. Not, not that we don't have, they don't have to make the playoffs, but they need to be a playoff contender late in the year to keep that train going. Right. And, and, you know, like you said, that's kind of the next step in the evolution of everything. And, and can they get there and, and will they get there and, and like you said, being, having a MVP run, you know, being like you said, a dark horse candidate, but, but having a run as an MVP candidate will absolutely put that in motion, right? Like all of a sudden, now you're like, Oh, this is legit. Like this is, this is happening. So, we'll see. I mean, you know, everything's in this instance, in this timeframe, where everything is at, it's, everything's good. But like we said, it now becomes, you have to start performing and it has to start becoming a, a situation where this is occurring and you're seeing the positives come out in terms of now winning games. Yeah. And if we look at this list of eight players, kind of run down it, you've got Jared Goff, you've got Tyreke Hill, you've got Christian McCaffrey, Kyler Murray, Micah Parsons, C.J. Strow to a tongue of Ayloa. And then a bonus pick of, of Jordan Love quarterback for the Packers, you know, of all those guys, I'm going to, you know, Micah Parsons, forget that he's a defensive player, defensive players don't win MVP. Wide receivers don't win MVP. So Tyreke Hill is like, I mean, it would take a lot. And here's the thing. If Tyreke Hill were good enough to be an MVP candidate, wouldn't it be really hard not to say that it's toa? Right. And that's, and that's just what it becomes, right? Like, you know, at the end of the day, saying, Christian McCaffrey would have to put up close to 20. Running backs can do it. But he'd have to put up close to 2,500 yards from scrimmage. And like over 20 touchdowns. Like we're talking historically great numbers, which he's already done and didn't win. So the other, the other instance of that, or I guess, the other side to the coin is unless there's not a dominant quarterback play this year, right? Like, unless there's not one quarterback that makes everybody else seem. Because that, I mean, if you look at last year, and this, again, not to go back and pick on Lamar Jackson, but like, you wouldn't look at what Lamar did last year and go, oh, definitely like hands down MVP, right? Like you look at him and be like, hey, a really good season. And then when you're like, oh, he won MVP, it was almost unanimous. You'd be like, oh, did not see that coming from what I, you know, again, basic statistics. But so that's kind of where it all comes together is now it's how do we, how do we do both, right? Like how do we have the Cardinals contending? How do you have Kyler in the MVP race and the kind of go inside? Like the only way Kyler's in the MVP race is if the Cardinals were in contention. I mean, because that's the first thing, right? Like, you have to be leading a winning team and putting up numbers, which we'll talk about in the kind of the next thing. This, this offense, like, maybe not from the outside, but you look at like, this could be a really good offense. Right. And I think it was in that article. Oh, we'll talk about it next. Let's do that coming to next on the rise-ups here at podcast of a star cardinals talk on the web. Let's move on and talk about our next segment, which will then, of course, be about the offense. Kyler thinks it can be a top one. That's coming to next on Rise-ups you read. Looking for excitement? Shumbah Casino is here. Play any time, play anywhere, play on the train, play at the store, play at home, play when you're bored. Play today for your chance to win and get daily bonuses when you log in. So what are you waiting for? Don't delay. Shumbah Casino is free to play. Experience social gameplay like never before. Go to Shumbah Casino right now to play hundreds of games, including online slots. Bingo, Slingo, and more. Live the Shumbah Life at ShumbahCasino.com. BTW Group, no purchase necessary. Boy, we're prohibited by law. See terms and conditions, 18 plus. We're back on the rise-ups here at podcast, Mr. Carlos talk on the web. Kyler Murray, the one time that he spoke to reporters this year in this off season, one of the things, one of the quotes that came up, like he believes that this could be a top offense or the top offense in the NFL. And let's be honest, that's high expectations. That's really, really, that's put lofty expectations. But then if you think about it, if you think about it, because the last eight games of the season you talked about on a previous show. So if you look at analytics and metrics that this was a top 10 offensive units over the last half of the season, with Kyler back in the lineup, when they were getting virtually nothing from the wide receiver position, the offense was quite literally James Connor and Trey McBride. You get that, you get Connor back in an offense that running happens and they've got depth at the running back position. You've still got Trey McBride. You have an offensive line that questions, but you expect it to be an above average unit, at least. And then you add Marvin Harrison, Jr. You get year two of Michael Wilson. You elevate Greg Greg Dorchen to the conversation, and you add a guy like say, Jones add to that some promise of we're not going to say he's going to big season, but Elijah Higgins as a second tight end. There are the pieces are in place for this to be a very efficient offense. I think when you think top offense, you're thinking, oh, could they score 35 points a game with a ball with a with an offense where you run the ball as well as they do? I don't know if you're going to get that, but I could totally see them being one of the most efficient off season offenses in the NFL, especially if Kyler continues on his trajectory. One is healthy, and two, the way he played in the final three games, finally knowing the offense, if that's the play that we get from him consistently throughout the year, this offense is not going to be the problem. No, and you look at it. I mean, the last four games of the season, the average 25 points a game, which is about six points a game over their season average. So again, they were turning in the right direction for that. And then you look at a couple of other things. One, they had the number one offense in terms of yards in the final four games. Now, I did the work, so you didn't have to a couple of days ago. And most people say, okay, well, who did they play, right? Like, does that actually matter? So the Niners were eighth in yards and third in scoring. You know, obviously they lost that game, but they scored 29 points, had 436 years of total offense. The Chicago Bears were 12th in yards, so still, you know, top 15, top half the league, but 20th in scoring, they scored only 16, had 306 years of total offense. They beat the Philadelphia Eagles who were abysmal defensively last year, you know, but Jonathan Ganon was the problem in Philadelphia. And 26th in yards, 30th in scoring. And then they, you know, again, as we know, lost to the Seahawks on two missed field goals by Matt Prater, who, you know, good job, Matt, I guess. It was part of the script. It was part of the script, who you say it is, although I hope that because that was that was the first missed first game winning field goal. In the final two minutes of a game that Matt Prater has missed in his entire career. And so, you know, and the Seahawks, again, defensively, were not good last year, so we'll see if that's something, but, you know, they're 30th in yards, 25th in scoring. And they put up only 20 points, but 466 yards of offense. So again, I mean, the number one yardage offense in the NFL over the last four games. And like you said, the back half of the season, they were top 10 inefficiency. This is a team that is trending in the right direction. Now it all matters if you do it for 17 plus games, right? Like, and obviously they're not going to have every game being great. But if your bad games are Chicago, where you're talking about 306 yards of total offense and 16 points, then that's okay because you go back, right, to last year, 58 yards, we'll throw out the Cleveland game, but they had six or yes, six games are 300 yards of total offense, which is not good. You know, they had a number of games less than 20 points, which is not great. So that's what it's got to be this year is that you can have those two, you know, one to two of those games, but you can't have a third of the season's worth of those games. Yeah. Yeah. And but the truth of the matter is that as good an offense you have, you also need at least a tolerable level of defense, right? As I say, a semblance of talent along the defense. Last year's, last year's defense was atrocious. It was like, you could, the leagues works arguably. The upgrades that they've made should make it at worst a below average defense and to have it for a good offensive unit, because if you have it atrocious defense, it makes it so very hard to be good offensively because you do press and it and so if that, well, yeah, you have you feel like, you know, in Kyle, he's like, he's like, I have to be the hero. I have to be here. I have to make like, and that's one of the, honestly, that has been one of the things about Kyle Murray's career that has held him back is the fact that the one thing he does do, he sometimes tries to do too much because there's no other option. You can't trust an 18 play drive and so he's like, I've got to make something happen. And sometimes those throws that he makes, the ones that get picked off, you're like, well, that shouldn't have made that through. Yeah, and that's what the key is becoming, right, is that they have to find sustainability efficiency, as you talked about earlier, like all of these things have to be a key to the growth and success of this team. Because if not, then, like you said, it's going to be, it's going to be one of those seasons where, you know, you mentioned it, you could see a lot of positives, and then also see a, you know, a 620. Yeah, and so, but if you're talking about top offense, like you look at some of the offense that are on the league and like, that's like, you look at San Francisco, San Francisco has an offense that like, it's, if they're playing, well, it's hard to stop because they run the ball so well, they get efficient quarterback play, they've got great receivers. So San Francisco, you're talking about that. You look at the Mar Jackson and their offense, you look at, you look at the Chiefs, and this year they have a, they have an improved receiving core this year, and it's not just Travis Kelsey and Isaiah Pacheco, they don't have to rely only on him. There, there are a number of really good offensive units, and if the Cardinals can be near the top of that, that, that would be a fantastic, fantastic thing, because, you know, you go from a promising office to begin a very good offense, and then you go from being in atrocious defense to do, and, you know, it's, it's a tolerable defense. Karma's going to be in a position to win a lot of games, this election, and that's what we want, that's what we hope, it's what we expect, that's what we believe is going to happen. Hi, and that's the, that's the hope for this whole thing, is that they continue to, to get better, and, you know, I, I would say a top 12 offense would be ideal next year, and then in year three with, with the growth and everything of Marvin and Kyler and the offense and things like that, you didn't, now all of a sudden you're looking at offense that falls into the top, you know, 10 to 8, and, and that needs to be where you live for the rest of that, that time in that career. Coming up next on the rise of Sierra podcast, Mr. Cardinals talk, I'm going to let us talk a little bit about training campus, the Cardinals will release some details about that, that's coming up next on the rise of Sierra. How to have fun, anytime, anywhere. Step one, go to Chumbah Casino.com Chumbah Casino.com, got it. Step two, collect your welcome bonus. Come to top a welcome bonus. Step three, play hundreds of casino style games for free. That's a lot of games, all for free. Step four, unleash your excitement. Whoo-hoo! Chumbah Chumbah. Chumbah Casino has been delivering thrills for over a decade, so claim your free welcome bonus now and live the Chumbah Life. Visit chumbah casino.com. We're back on the rise of Sierra podcast, Mr. Cardinals talk on the web. We have training camp information. Not only do we know when the Cardinals will report for training camp, that is July 23rd, we also have the training camp schedule. Nothing surprising about this in terms of training camp, except any of you've got a total of nine, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, open practices and those will all come before, so they only have the one home pre-season game and starts at Thursday, July 25th and ends on Wednesday, August 7th. There are, um, there's, there's the one grinkle this year and all of them are afternoon. So, you know, some remember the days of having like 8 15 or 9 o'clock in the morning training camp practice. I know the reasons for that, but this is, you know, this is like it's always been, um, it's free, parking is free. We are in the age of digital tickets. You can't just walk in, uh, and so you do have to reserve tickets for, for that, but they are free, um, and they have the red and white practice that's on Saturday, August 3rd, but there is a new wrinkle that's kind of interest interesting and that is a season ticket only, season ticket holder only practice on the first weekend. And so they will, they will practice Thursday and Friday. There will be no practice that first Saturday. It's a bummer for me because the days that I can make it out to training camp once, uh, you know, school starts are Saturdays and Sundays. And so there, there will be just the, the Saturday red and white practice the next weekend. And then I am assuming that media members will be able to attend the ticket season ticket older, only practice on Sunday, July 28th, but that's an interesting thing. The back together weekend, that's something that the NFL has had as initiative the last few seasons only this time. And I, I, I don't, I haven't looked at it for the teams. The fact that the Cardinals are making it season ticket holder only. I think it's just, I think it's kind of a neat and it's a bummer, but also it just adds a little bit to the value of being a season ticket holder. Yeah, I got to unmute sometimes. Yeah, in, in this age, it is, you know, incentivizing owning the ticket, right? And it's incentivizing, being a season ticket holder, because then all of a sudden you are the guy that they have, the guy or gal, obviously, that they have to go to, to get the ticket. And then you get a little bit of perks, like you said, every once in a while. So yeah, I mean, basic training camp, other than like you said, the times, which is nice. You know, but for the most part, I mean, it's, it's pretty standard. And we'll get some things now. I think the bigger thing was they've moved to what my three TV CBS for all their, all their pre-season games. Yeah, pre-season games. So that'll be the bigger thing, because, you know, I think they've been on NBC last week. They were on channel 12 for like the past few years. And then, yeah, how you get a change of network, not that that matters a whole lot, other than it's, it's cool for guys we know in the business. It's basically it's cool for the guys in the business that we know that work at those networks. Yeah, so I mean, but yeah, training camp should be fun this year. It should be interesting. There's a lot that we're not going to see because we know how Jonathan Ganon and them do things, but that's, you know, at least it's as, as the countdown starts to the start of training camp, it gives us something to look forward to. Yeah, and, and the one question I have is that since that's considered a close practice, that season ticket holder practice on that first Sunday, whether the Cardinals will treat that as a close practice that media members are not able to report on. That's basically for it for me. I'm like, that's my only question because being open to the public, like we can talk about everything that's on the field. But if they limit it to season ticket holders only, you might be able to say, no, this is not an open practice. So you can't talk about it. Yep. So, how are you going to try? Are you going to think you're going to make it out to any practices this year, Seth? Probably not just with all the extra coaching and, and responsibility this year, but maybe a weekend one, I'll be able to make it out too. And let me see you, you'll probably have a, a correspondent or two out there once or twice to give you, but whether or not you get Seth, I'll be out there for, for one of them. I'm sure Howard Balzer, my, my co-editor here at Cards Wire will also be out there. So there will be plenty of updates that we can get from what's coming out of training camp. And with that, we will wrap up this edition of the Rise Up Secret podcast, Mr. Cardinals Talk on the web. Again, I'll have another, I'll have another show with Howard later this week. And after that, it's going to be touching go. I know that I will be starting to record sometime soon the opponent preview series. So we've got 14 of those that, that we'll be doing. And other than that, unless something comes up in news, I think Seth, you might, Seth might be on a little bit of a break here from the show. But until then, that's Seth Cox. I'm Jester at the Rise Up Secret podcast. Thanks always forward listening. With the Lucky Land Sluts, you can get lucky just about anywhere. This is your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I suggest you sit back, keep your tray table upright, and start getting lucky. Play for free at luckylandsluts.com. Are you feeling lucky? No purchase necessary. BGW or prohibited by law. 18 plus terms and conditions apply. Thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise Up Sea Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes and subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts, Stitcher Radio, audio boom, or many other podcast platforms so shows are delivered directly to your mobile device. Please give the show a five star rating and always support the sponsors who support the show. 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