Mike Carpenter is joined by The 200 Level co-host emeritus Harry Black ahead of Illinois football's appearance in the Citrus Bowl. They recap a memorable 9-3 regular season and discuss how this team's success alters expectations for the program going forward. Also, they ponder just how awesome it would be if Bret Bielema's squad pulled off the upset against South Carolina.
The 200 Level with Mike Carpenter: A Fighting Illini Fan Podcast
Live from Orlando with Harry Black (12/30/24)
It is the 200 level Y from Orlando, Florida, an undisclosed hotel somewhere near the Orlando Airport with the 200 level cohost emeritus, Harry Black. Hey, what's going on? It's good. It's been five years here. It's been five years. I can't believe the last time that I did one of these in person, COVID wasn't a thing yet. It was not a thing yet. And actually Illinois sports were not a thing. But if you think about it, because we did a podcast after Braggon rights game. We did. Well, we were right where we were halfway to Worrytown, if I remember correct. Oh my God. And back then we thought, okay, Illinois basketball is not doing anything because what we would just lost to the mazoo, we had also lost to, I think Miami, Miami lost would have been earlier that December there was loss of Maryland, the Braggon rights game was like very lifeless. Yeah. And then you and Trevor came over because you were moving out to Connecticut and your time in Champaign was done. So it's so fortuitous that the Citrus Bowl happens to be in your hometown of Orlando. Yep. And you know, we were talking to dinner because we got a bite to eat before this. And to me, the Citrus Bowl has always had a lot of cashier because I would wake up in Champaign or New Year's Day and the Outback Bowl started at 10 a.m. Central. So it's bright and early and then 11 a.m. would be the Citrus Bowl, which usually was a good matchup. It'd be the Michigan versus Florida kind of game. So as an Orlando in Orlando, I think it's Orlando. I think it's Orlando. I think it is. As an Orlando. Yes. Does that, I mean, disregard the pop tarts bowl, which is incredible. I love that. I love that. Thanks so much. I love the ending ceremony. Let's put him in the toaster. It's so good. It's awesome. I really wish there were pop tarts in our game tomorrow, but alas, Chezzie, the cheese it will have to do and that's okay, but take the cheese that's out of it. I mean, the Citrus Bowl to me has cashier. So for someone from Orlando does have the same thing. I don't kind of as someone from Orlando because before when I still lived your full time coincidentally was before I was really a college football fan because I hadn't gone to Illinois yet. I hadn't really gotten into college football as a sport yet and you would see it around this time as, oh, yeah, the game at the Citrus Bowl down in downtown. I think back then was the capital one ball, capital one ball. It was very briefly the last few years, verbo, the verbo, but you always see it as the Citrus Bowl because it's played at the Citrus Bowl. So around here, it was seen as basically the biggest college football game that goes on in Orlando, which honestly isn't saying a lot, but it was still seen as a big deal. Now, since I've been a fan of college football, you put it on that same pedestal as an outback ball. I'm still, I'm going to call it the outback ball. I don't care what it's called now, the role. Who cares? No, you put it on that same kind of pedestal as you made it to this kind of bowl game. You're a good team. You're not, you're not at the Rose Bowl. You're not playing for a national championship, but you are one of those teams that people respect them when they see you on their schedule, they think, okay, this isn't an automatic win. So I think it more has to do with, okay, these teams that are here had a good, they had a good season because even my mom asked me earlier today. So if Illinois wins this game, do they play another one? No, you're not going for anything else after this. This is the cherry on top. This is, you win this game. That's awesome. You lose this game. You still had a great year. And I think being in a bowl game like that where you really feel like there's not a lot that you need because going back to what we were just talking about in 2019, when we were in that bowl game, the red box bowl, red box, yeah, we were on top of the world. We won four games in a row. Good God. Yeah, God. That was a fun four weeks. But no, like that one you went into it thinking, if we don't win this, we're six and seven. And that doesn't feel good. Exactly. I'll even go just two years ago. There's a Tampa for that game and I remember waking up that morning, the Hampton Inn and Ebor City. And I thought Tampa was actually a pretty cool town. Had a good time. But I remember waking up that day with a different feeling than I think I will wake up on what I guess will be, is today Monday or Tuesday? What the hell is this? Today is Monday because we were just watching Monday. That's right. Thank you. Yeah, so waking up Tuesday on New Year's Eve, which is not that long from over recording this, that I'm not going to have nearly the same thought that I did in Ebor City before that rely quest bowl/outback bowl, which was you kind of got to win this to feel good about the way the season ended. The way that this season went though, Harry, what I'm most encouraged by is you mentioned it. You know, it's not about making the college football playoff. I didn't need that this year. Yeah. I frankly don't need that as a line of football fan. I just want to not be a team that others look on the schedule and say that's win. Yep. I hit that there by saying, okay, other teams now will look at Illinois as they're not bad. Exactly. And that if years like this were to continue where you went 7, 8, 9 games a year and you become the next Iowa or Wisconsin that used to make the citrus bowl regularly, just what a completely different mindset that is. To me, that's what's most exciting. Well, see, and here's the thing, it's not necessarily if you become an Iowa or you become a Wisconsin in the last 20 years, every Illinois fan is going to take that. And part of it is because like you said, you're going to be making the citrus bowl year and you're out, the real Iowa quest bowl year and year out. But it's not just that. It's because if that is your, I want to call this our floor, because nine and three as a floor, you're out. I'll take that as a floor. I'll take it as a ceiling. I would take either way. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. So if that is what you're looking at as a, not a ceiling, not a floor, a good year, you know, because if you're saying this is a really good year and then your floor is, well, I mean, I would imagine the floor is still going to be five and seven. But if your floor, you can get to a six and six and then you have the, the, you know, the bad bowl year, yeah, you are still in a situation because those, I was those Wisconsin's, they were making those citrus bowls. You know what else they were doing? They were making big 10 championships. They were making rose bowls. That's when that's your peak season, then you know that you've made it as one of those teams that you don't want to play on the schedule. I was noticing today, so I went to the Pepper Alley in the point, which is sort of like a shopping center area in Orlando and it was a lot of fun. And I'll maybe get in that a little bit later, but, you know, after the Pepper Alley were Breppie Luma and the chancellor, Robert Jones spoke and Josh Whitman spoke, me and a couple guys that I tailgate and have tailgate with for a long time went up to the sport and social club. I think it's called, regardless, it was in the line I hub. So, we go in there, we're watching the music city bowl, and I see that Iowa somehow, some way. Somehow, some way went eight and four again. Yep. It flew under the right name, but once went to us. And that was with the team that, again, the offense was pretty nondescript. They had a good running match. It wasn't as bad as last year. Not as bad as last year, but it wasn't proved. Defense was not as good as last year, but overall, I guess I looked at that and I thought, man, if you tell me right here right now, before we play the Citrus Bowl, that next year with Luke coming back and the rest of the team, that they go eight and four and they make the music city bowl, I'm in. If you, yeah, that's, and that's what we want, right? We are reasonable. Yeah. We are definitely reasonable. Yes. But we're also, what would you say, one, two, three plays away last year from being, I'd say like one or two plays away last year from being three bowl games in a row. And we're one or two plays away this year from being in the Duke's Mayo Bowl. That's true. Citrus, that's true. So I do think in a weird way, it's leveled out. Yeah. And I think the way that it's worked out, I'll pose this question to you because I had a really good question from a listener a few weeks ago and I addressed it on the show. So the name for some reason is escaping me at the moment. I think it was from Sharp in my, I miss the, I miss the fake name so much. That kind of sound really sharp, sharp, sharp, sharp, sharp sends a message, a Twitter message. And I said, Sharp, thank you for that. So the question was this, would you take the reality that we're currently in right now, which is two out of four? Yeah. Okay. Or you take the two non bowl seasons, you give each of those an extra win, but you lose a win in 22, 24, meaning instead of the Reliac Quest Bowl, maybe it's music city. Yeah. And then this year, maybe instead of this, it's Reliac Quest Bowl or it's Duke's Mayo or something like that. Would you have taken four bowl games in a row over this? And I know that sounds easy. Yeah. But the only thing that gave me pause and why it was such a good message from the listener and I will pull their, their name, I have it in Twitter right here. I'm going to pull it upside, give them credit for this. But the only reason I pause and thought about that, because four bowl game seems obvious, but in this day and age, sometimes I do think it matters what bowl game. Yeah. So I want to give that as I'm looking up, what would you think you know, I actually think for me, I would probably go with, and it's easier to say because it's what's happened, I would probably go with the reality that we have right now because if you have four bowl games in a row and you're, they're each six and six games or seven to five games, you know what you are, you're, you're Minnesota under Glen Mason. That's what you are. And I always thought that'd be a great place to be. It's a good place to be. But I mean, we talk about getting, you know, making a statue to the guy that goes eight and four or seven to five year in year out. Now the first, it also I think makes it a little easier that the first year, the expectation were so low that when we went, what do we go, four and eight, five and seven, hundred be one, five and seven, starting out, I guess what would have been two and five. It wasn't good. Because then I think you got that first marquee win against Penn State. And that was after a dropping at home against Wisconsin in the five week where he criticized the offensive line, lack of depth. Yep. I think really what it was, the first year, I don't mind that you didn't make a bowl game because the expectations were not to make a bowl game. Yeah, no one expected. Exactly. You know, 2022 happens, 2023 last year was the first year where you're really like, you know, what are we did? That was last year was the first year where you had any kind of questions about, you know, the coaching staff or the direction of where the team was going. And it was a clunky year. It was a bad year. I mean, there's no real way to go about it. What it was, Harry, was a signature Alanae year, I think unfairly and this is why I love how Beelima addresses the past is he will often mention in so many words that it's irrelevant. And I've always said that, like, that these athletes and these coaching staffs don't give a crap about what happened when I was 12th. They don't care about, they don't care about '07 going into '08, they don't care about '99 into 2000, any of that. But it's, you know, it's someone, it's weird because, you know, the common fan doesn't have the same kind of pole or the same kind of input into a team on a year in your out basis because, you know, someone who's there for every day, every hour, they're putting in everything they have. At the same time, someone like yourself has been following this team for your entire lifetime. You see what happens when, you know, oh, God, that's typical Illinois. There's got to be some kind of correlation, there's some kind of reason that this team has never been able to really go two, three years in a row constantly going into bowl games. Eventually, it's not a coincidence. Exactly. It's a reason why it has happened. I don't know what the reason is, but there's got to be some kind of reason, I'll give you the simplest reason, I think, for the history of Illinois football, why they've never had that consistent success is they've never had a coach that others would rather have for themselves. Yeah. With the rare exception being John McAvick, when I was a wee lad and then they were the last time they were in the Citrus Bowl, 1990. I think that it sometimes boils down to simply as, whether it be Ron Turner or Ron Sooke or Tim Beckman or Lovey Smith, Timmy Bee, Timmy Bee, Timmy Bee still texts me sometimes. I do not question, I mean, you, I never thought it was a bad guy, just by the sign of Sionovich, whatever. Was that never bothered me at my core, to be honest, it was more just a convenient excuse for Mike Thompson. Oh, that's exactly what it was. Yeah. But to me, he always seemed like a good guy. He was a great guy. Yeah. Man, that guy gave me a chance. No other coaches were giving me, given this, this scrawny high school or a chance to play offensive line in the big ten, maybe also says why the talent that he brought in was what it was. Well, I mean, that all said, I mean, he didn't bring in some, brought in some, and he did improve as you've always mentioned 2-4-6, 2-4-6. Now, I look at this, though, as to why Illinois football, and this is why Harry this year was special, and we'll get into this year, is because not only did he go 9-3, you did it after what was such a signature Alonai disappointment year, and you did it after two years following what felt like the arrival moment, and Mike, wait a second, two years ago was fun, the 7-in-1 start was, the month of October 2022, as I mentioned to you at dinner, was the most fun single month I've had as Alonai football. It was amazing. October 1st to beat Wisconsin, smoke them, and then October 30th or 29th, he won on the road in Nebraska, just like that four straight Big Ten West wins, and puts you in prime position to make the Big Ten championship game. Wow. Yeah, that's what we need to say about that. A hole in my wall after the game game. I came home, I have a camel back, one of those water drinking apparatuses. Is it a drink, or is it the actual camel back? Like the backpack? It's not the backpack. It's not the backpack. Yeah, that's why I think that's why they call it a camel back, though. I actually... It is. That's the original version. Yeah. The original camel back, you were like a backpack, and you could wear it over or under a shirt, so I'm going to hikes and stuff, I have a friend who actually wore a camel back that was like a mixed drink to a dig Matthew show. That's cool. And they got hospitalized. Yes. They didn't really think of the proportions of this drink, and then they got their stomach pump that night. That's another story. Am I going to edit that out? No, I'll keep that because I promised it by saying how cool that was. It was kind of cool. They went. They were telling a tale. They were finally next to it. Yeah, they're flying out. They're flying out. Thanks for kids. So I get home after that Purdue game, and knowing what an opportunity we'd blown. For some reason, the key that I had was not unlocking our door as smoothly as it should have been. I had the camel back in one hand, and I just look at it, and I just chuck it on my concrete patio and drop an F bomb, and I had nothing to do with camel back. Of course, it was just the frustration that we blew it. In other words, the 7-to-1 dream season turned out to be another alumni season, which was reinforced by the Relyquist Bowl lost to Mississippi State. It was reinforced by so close, yet not enough at Michigan. The Michigan one, weirdly enough, the Michigan one is the one that I, that one just made me kind of bummed. That one I just left thinking like, God, I will say this, I actually think beating Michigan that day, here you're, I'm going to give you two options. First option, you beat Purdue, lose to Michigan, you go to the Big Ten title, game gets smoked by Michigan. Second option, you lose Michigan State Purdue like you did. You beat Michigan, you finish nine and three, you don't get to go to the Big Ten Championship game, you let Purdue get their asses kicked instead. I actually think for the benefit of the program, the second option was better. Where you don't make it there, but you still beat Michigan? You have the marquee win against the team that ultimately went to the college football playoff, and then they won it the next year. Lucky for us, we got the worst of both worlds. We got the worst of both worlds. We got leaders. And not go. Yeah. So, so that's why this year, man, it's like, you had the disappointing end of 2022, you had the disappointing, totally, a line I five and seven year last year. That Northwestern game last year was just, it was just kind of a cherry on top, it was a cherry on top of the turd Sunday. Yeah. And then this year. So, they put a cherry on top of that, by the way. I mean, if it's a turd Sunday, you have to make a pallet of ice on it. I guess so. I mean, the cherry kind of takes away the bitterness of the turd. So, now you're here, and I'm sitting here with you in this Orlando hotel, yeah, recording no mics as you can probably tell, but we're trying to make it sonically as good as I can, thinking, this is a dream. Yeah. It's not the college football playoff, but to me, this is all I could ever want from the Illinois football. Hey, ma'am. This is, we have a chance, and this is going to already date this podcast. But I mean, I have a chance to go out there and finish a season with 10 wins with a win over a ranked SEC team. If you, any Illinois fan is going to say, you take that 10 times out of 10, 100%. I mean, if this, this is, if not only because of what it then implies for you going forward, because you're a 10 in three Illinois team with a good coach who sent multiple players to the league and can beat an SEC team, you're going to bring people in who are going to say, you're going to say, I mean, hey, you know, insert, recruit right here. Look what we did with these guys. You want to come here, help us take that next step, get to the college football playoff, because here's the thank harp. We're not that far away. I know that's, that's awesome. That's cool to look forward to if we could do that. That'd be amazing. 20. Exactly. That far away, despite you and I both knowing, this was not a great team. No, they were pretty damn good. They were, they were a really good team. I don't know if this team beats the team from two years ago. They might not. Well, let's, let's talk about that because I, I'm driving from champagne to Indy this morning to catch my flight bright and early. And I knew, all right, all my way over. What am I going to listen to? I'm going to listen to Jeremy and Joey do their line on choir podcasts and I ran into them at the point, it was great to see both of them. And I'm listening to it in Jeremy address that very question. Who would be favored in the 2022 versus this year's team? I think 22. I think they would be. I think, I think that defense was so overpowered. I mean, because the, here's the thing, this team this year, the offense put up some good numbers at the end of the year, but you never really felt like in college, it's unfair, because we scored 38 points in those last three games. And I understand it was not against great competition, 38 points is good. That's impressive. It's in a conference game. Exactly. And I know we don't like to look at the Purdue game because of how that transpired. You still scored 50 points. You did. So God, that game was, I hated that game. It was absolute torture. Thank God you won. Well, we're in the lots and I'm anxious to get your take here because we'll, we'll go through the season and kind of see what from afar it felt like for you. Yeah. I mean, my dad and I were in there for the first half and it's 24 to three. Seems like it's going exactly the script. Even though Purdue to their credit was moving the ball in the first half, but we got timely stops. Yeah. Second half, as we all remember, was hell on earth. I mean, it literally felt like he wants to kick. Oh my God. He would have been over. Yeah. And then you think, okay, you won by two scores against Purdue, fine. We move on. Regardless, it goes into overtime and they, we immediately get the touchdown passed. I think that's the first play. I mean, first play. Yeah. Yeah. And then Purdue, I think two or three plays later. They get theirs. Maka B. And we knew, we knew, and we sided, they're going to go for two. Yeah. And they should go for two. Yeah. You go for two on, you go for two on the road. Yeah. I think that, that's saying is you go for, in that situation or at the end of the game, you go for two on the road, you go for one at home. Right. I am in between my tailgate, which, part of me, when these things start going badly, I distance myself. So I don't know if you feel the same way if you're watching it with family members or friends. Yeah. You need your own space when things start going bad. Yeah. And then I'm in the middle of two tailgates, my tailgate and then the people across the way and their TV just so happens to be about two or three seconds in front of ours. And I kind of knew that. So I'm standing in the middle of a parking lane. There's no traffic because everyone's either in the game or in the tailgate lots. Yeah. And I look at their TV and I see, okay, I think we sacked him and I'm waiting for the fireworks. Yeah. We're not hearing the fireworks and keep in mind the stream is a few seconds later. Yeah. So then I look over to ours and then the same play happens. Like, okay. Why are there no freaking fireworks? Like what is going on here? And then finally, the fireworks go off and I could have collapsed in a puddle. Yeah. I was done. Not even out of happiness just sheer relief. Really? That was all it was. It was not jubilation. And yet, Harry, I thought I know that wasn't good. I still think we're going to be Michigan. Yeah. You know what? What is that? I think about sports. You can never look too far or too much into one matchup before the next one. Yeah. That one was specifically because Purdue was horrible this year. I think one in 10. One in 11. One in 11. They said they got one win. And it was against an FCS team or whoever. In the end of state. I want to see. Yeah. There you go. Same time. Purdue has been the bane of our existence for the last however many years. I know we've beaten them a couple of times, but we have lost to them what four or five times in a row. Bill Cubitt beat him. Bill Cubitt did beat him. He smoked him. That's right. But for the most part, it's just, you know, they're not a good team and they're always, you know, we should beat them even when we have a good team 2022. We still lose to them. And it wasn't just that Jeff Brown was winning. It was the fact that Danny Hope and Daryl Hazell. Daryl Hazell. Oh my God. That Daryl Hazell only lost one time being stolen away and that was Bill Cubitt. Yeah. Because he beat us in 2016. The, uh, the lovey game. It was a good game objectively that went to overtime. The worst one. Were you on the team in 2014? Yeah. Yeah. That was the orange out. No, it was a sophomore. And that was actually a game that had a little bit of pop behind it because it was homecoming. Yup. AJ Bush here. Right? No, no. No, who was 2014? Oh, I'm sorry. 2014 was Westlot. 2014 was Westlot. And then it ended with Riley. Okay. So then I'm actually thinking more about 2018, the year after you were left, AJ Bush does the quarterback and that team, Lovey's third starts off like three and three. I remember this game. Yeah. We lost by like 40 points. I remember listening to it on the, I was working at Blackdog. And I remember, because we had done a show, um, old tank harp days at the, um, at the bookstore and we're talking about how like, yeah, man, this is homecoming. We could do something. We can get to four wins. I think it would have been over a game day, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For one of those onsite shows. And I think we lost by like 38 points. Yeah. And it was done at halftime. Yeah. Yeah. It was horrible. I want to get your thoughts of this season as a whole, because I mean, we, we can't talk about the bowl game really much because one, I don't know a whole lot of us have to rely on other than what I've read about and people can get that information anywhere. They're good. They're good. They're an SEC, they're a ranked SEC team that beat the ACC champion. Exactly. So like it will take a, maybe not Herculean effort, but it's one of your best of the year. I would, I mean, what would it just real quick? What would we say our best game of the year was? Hmm. I got a couple options for that. I think that Kansas was a timely win in that you got the biggest plays when it mattered the most. Yeah. I don't think you overall outplayed them exponentially. I think that you just made a hell of a lot more big plays than they did. Okay. The Michigan game, and I know it was draft title, the Michigan game to me was top to bottom your best performance of the year. Yeah. In the game that mattered the most for a fan base, 100 years in the making, the uniforms, we talked about this at dinner too. I mean, it was a perfect day, Harry. You have 70 degrees of sunny. Yeah. There was, it was flawless top to bottom. I will never, there will be better Illinois football teams knock on wood that I see and go to see those games, but there will not be a day, even if we beat a top 10 team at home. Yeah. There will not be a day that everything coalesced into just perfection. Yeah. You mentioned, though, and I wouldn't disagree with this given the circumstances and how early in the year it was. I think the game at Nebraska was one of your better ones because Nebraska was playing good ball the time. They finished the year seven and six, Dylan Ryola kind of leveled out as a freshman often does. Yeah. But you won that game in overtime, and the second half and overtime of that game, you won. Oh, my God. That would have never seen a better overtime statistic. That's wrong. You just look at the, not even just one side of the ball, but like all five or six plays, it's like touchdown Illinois, sack, sack, 10 yard completion sack. So much fun. I would. Yeah. I'd say that at the top. I would say that probably all in all that game is your best performance. And I think you're going to have to, I think you're going to have to play your best performance if you want to win this game. Yeah. I mean, South Carolina is better than any team you beat, you know, and I think they're probably the third best team on your schedule, they're not as good as Oregon, they're not as good as Penn State. I would agree with most of that. I think they're better than anyone else you beat though. And I don't, there's kind of a drop off there after that, but I think there's a major drop off. And you asked at dinner, like, if we were to beat Minnesota, what would be in the playoff, I don't think so because Indiana was 11 to one, you can't keep an 11 to one team out. Yeah. You could have kept a 10 to two team out and they might have been that 10 and two team. So to me, it worked out fine because I'll ask you one more hypothetical before we get in. First, one question about the South Carolina game and then the seasons of whole. Yeah. First hypothetical is this, I asked Trevor and Isaac this in the chat thread, your two options are your Illinois, you're playing the Citrus Bowl. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's the reality we're facing. Here's the other option. You sneak into the college football playoffs and you get your butt handed to you. Yeah. Yeah. On December 20th, yeah, season done. Yeah. I know the obvious answer is make the playoff whenever you can. Yeah. But it's a little bit different as a fan. Yeah. As I'm booking my flight and I'm making my trip for a bowl game that actually kind of matters and thinking, um, this will do. Yeah. You're also not on the national stage if you, um, if we lose this, we, we are, but not as much as everyone saw Indiana get their doors blown off. And if Indiana had just competed, yeah, then it's still a win for them. Exactly. If you keep that, I saw a post real quick sidebar. I saw a post after that weekend of games, horrible weekend of games. I was actually frustrated. Yeah. Because by the time it got to Tennessee or Ohio State, I thought Tennessee probably has a better chance to make this competitive. No, it was horrible. And I saw someone, I saw, I think it was definitely pre planned in Instagram posts. I said, what a weekend of games. I was like, what weekend? This was horrible. Yeah. Four blowouts. The closest game was Clemson, Texas. And that was horrible. Yeah. So I would say if here's the thing, I'm probably still going playoff because, and here's my rationale. We have, we kind of have instances to look back at. When you say best Illinois, not even the last 30 years, when you say best Illinois football seasons all time, the first two that come to your head are probably 01 and 07, right? For me, yes. Both ended in blowouts. And oddly enough to 01 and that team's credit, that BCS series that year was really bad. I think LSU would have been like a national champion. Oh, dude. LSU was very good. And that was Nick Saban. Yeah. Maybe a quarterback. I think they would have had like Marcus Spears on that team. Maybe so in 01. I'm trying to think. But I do know this that by the time the dust settle met BCS, the Illinois LSU game was the closest of all the BCs. And it was still like, what, like a two score game? 4734. Yeah. It was not as close as the score would have indicated because we were, we were down big and then we kind of came back with some maybe by as much score scores. Yeah. I think I went through the box score and at halftime, it was like 28 to three. Yeah. Real quick question about the bowl game before we get the season at March. Yeah. South Carolina often referred to understandably as the hottest team in the country. Yeah. Six straight wins in the SEC. What was our last loss, I think, was to to Bama, Bama at Bama and was close. And they, they recovered an onside kick and they threw a pick on the last drive. Otherwise they, they could have won. Yes. So my question to you is when we talk about hot teams and momentum, can that be, and this is the one I fan here talking, trying to find an angle, can that be sustained from November 30th to December 31st? Ah, it's hard to say. I, I want to say no because when you get into a groove, I really want, the thing I go back to is, um, when I was in high school, we beat this team my senior year. We beat them week one. They were okay and then the season starts to go on and you start looking at them, putting up these big numbers against other teams and it's like, oh my God, we might have to play this team. There was a, it was a, a papa, uh, we might have to play this team. And then they beat one team in the playoffs by 20. They beat another by 20. They beat another by 20. We have to play them a team we had already beaten in the game to get to the state championship. They beat us by two scores. Yeah. Sometimes when you get that and it, and the reason they ended up winning state championship, the reason they were able to do that is because they kept going, you know, they don't have a month off to, you know, the momentum is so fickle. So when you don't stay in that groove, when you're not going to class, going to workouts, going to practice, boom, boom, boom, it's different. You know, now you're flying out here. Now you're taking a day off to go to universal or to Disney or wherever. Um, and what you do on the field, it's, it's not the same. You're not, you're not playing a road game. You're not playing a home game. You're playing this weird kind of like, it really is kind of an exhibition game. So I don't know how much momentum is going to help that. I think what this is going to boil down to is a mix of talent, which unfortunately it's SCC versus Big Ten and it's not just SCC versus Big Ten, it's different. It's SCC versus former Big Ten West. And then I think a lot of it's going to be, it's going to be, it's going to sound so cliche, but it's talent and it's coaching because momentum really has gone out the window. You know, these teams haven't played in a month. It's, they've been playing each other. If it is coaching, I feel like we get a shot. I, yeah. Um, Shane Beamer is a good coach. I do think Belem is a little bit better. Yeah. And I mean, the track record would suggest that Belem has more experience than things I guess too. Yeah. And I do think that even look in the Mississippi State game and thinking about how your defense is lacking, Sydney Brown and Devin Witherspoon, that you actually held them in check a Mississippi State team that I think had one random wide receiver that opted out, but everybody else is there. I know Mike, we should pass away. Yeah. But it was the same offense and you held them to 13 with the weird touchdown on the last play. Yeah. Two scores. Two scores to, um, to an SCC team with no optouts really now this, this is a different piece with Lenoir Sellers, and I understand that, but I, I do think that hopefully that youth, which is still a relative lack of experience for him can lead to some defensive takeaways before we leave, we'll, we'll make a pick, um, but we were both acknowledged before we move on to see as a whole that the beauty of this game, and this is not me just putting on the hypothetical or proverbial cup. Yeah. Yeah. So the last game is that losing it, if you are competitive, especially, cast no shadow on the resume. No, no, this isn't, this isn't a situation where you better win this to make your record look better. Cause we've talked about it before, um, when you're six and six, how much better does seven and six look than six and seven? Right. It's insane. Nine and three or nine and four versus 10 and three. Yeah. You'd love to have the double digits. If you look back at this and you were nine and 14 with a, you had the same record as the Rose Bowl team. Exactly. And if you lose this game, no, I mean, that one has the cache of Rose Bowl right next to it. Sure. But if you lose this game, I think I saw somewhere, the spread was 10 points, which I think is fair. I think if you lose this game by, I will even give Illinois say they lose this game 2814. And you're nine and four and you kind of kept it close. Say it was 21 14 or even if it was like 28, 70 square touchdown late and it's like, you keep it within that kind of, you're going to look back, you're not going to say, wow, that was horrible. You're going to look back and say, yeah, man, that was a good year. That was a fun year. The, the game at the end of the year, yeah, it didn't go our way. Now, like you said, you don't want this to get, to get away from it. Get out of hand. Don't let it get away from me. Don't lose by. There's a pride thing. Yeah. Yeah. When you think of TCU from a couple of years ago, they don't think about, wow, they got to the national championship. Yeah. They don't think, wow, they'd be Michigan to get to the national championship. They think 66 to seven. Was that the final? I was 60 something to seven. Good job. Yeah. It was so bad. How was Michigan doing? And then they won the title the next year. Yeah. And then we beat them this year. Well, and no players went to the league and it was the same team. That's how that happened. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he was there. Yeah, I wasn't on Blake Cora was there too. But when we say all this and then there is, I mean, because even the most pro South Carolina projections would say that they have a 70% chance of winning. Yeah. This is not David versus Goliath. No. This is a really good SEC team that has probably a talent discrepancy or talent advantage. Yeah. And that's why there's the 70%. And to me, it's hard and granted it's getting late here on December 30th and I may or may not have had an old fashioned at dinner and I may not have had a couple drinks for that. But I am on vacation and it's just, it hit me hairy to where it's like, God, if they won. Oh my God, I've been there too. And I had it. You were on your way to pick me up on the way to dinner. Yeah. And I'm sitting out on this beautiful, I mean, it's picturesque. How nice. It's 70 degrees, just beautiful night in Florida where it's like, Oh, right. This is why I came down. Yeah. I mean, apart from the game, it's like, all right, this is why warm weather bowl games are the best. Exactly. And it just hit me like, what if dude, and this is like, I got my trusty computer here and I'm like, I know what, I know what if, what if the cool thing would be to go out and party, but I'll probably just come back here and I'll make a celebratory drink and I will hit record and just few latitudes, this is the best team in the country. I know we didn't make the playoffs a mockery of the sports. Ten and three for this team, though, I mean, I think back to being in the season, I made a prediction before that I did think they'd go 66. Yeah. I thought that, you know, I don't want to overreact to what they did last year and say, well, everything sucks. We're just like, no, I think they're fine. I just thought the schedule was not advantageous. I think, because I remember listening to some of the earlier ones where you were going through projections and I think someone said like nine and three or ten and two. No, there was one Ethan who is a long time listener and passed by the tailgates and he was very much adamant that this was like a college football play of caliber team. He wasn't that far off. He said ten and two, I think, by the way, I want to get this credit out there because I, we mentioned charp. Oh, was it Ashley from Pilt? Oh, I missed these names. It was from Ben. Okay. Ben are who, who had sent that all the way back in November and I thought it was a really good question because when he had sent that, I started, you know, on December 1st and the season was over. Yeah. And all the way it was nine and three and he just brought that like, well, would you trade any of these wins within the other seasons? So not chart, not Pilt, Ben are, it was really cool, man, because when I was down to point, I ran into Isaac Ambrose, who you remember from the radio station, ran into a few other people like Sport and Social Club was the name of the bar and ran into some other people that were like, hey, Karp was the podcast. And you know, what I think it's pegged with this podcast is that I am somehow negative when I actually just feel like I'm ready to criticize when warranted. Yeah. And what I wanted to caution myself before this year was don't overreact and say five and seven or four and eight just because they went five and something last year, which is hard to do. It is hard to do. Yeah, I said six and six thinking that's reasonable because I did think they were bulk however. Yeah. Was there a moment this season and there's probably a couple of easy possible answers, but I want to get your first take. What was the first moment that was an eye raising experience for you like, oh, oh, maybe this might be a different kind of the first time was probably the in total was the Kansas game. Okay. Can you watch that live? I did. Okay. Yeah, I watched that from my lazy boy. Yeah, it was tough because I was, you know, that was still early in the season. It was early when I started school. So I was like, I got to make sure I do all these readings, you know, Saturday. So I was like, I can't watch it, but I ended up just throwing my book to the side and watching the game. And there was a specific moment in that game where Scott pick six. Yeah. And from the stands, you know, I want to get your take to because you're watching at that point right there, it is a 10 to six Kansas lead with about a minute left in the first half. That's exact. And here's the thing. And it's hard to say this, but you'll understand what I'm saying. The reason that that was kind of the first moment, because even then I think they took the lead in the second half before we then got a lead back, but they went up, uh, let's see. What was the final score that came? 20 to 16. That sounds right. So Kansas ended up, if Illinois takes a 13 to six lead, they would probably have been up 16 to 13. Yeah. They scored 10 straight and then you took the lead, right? Yeah. So the, um, maybe it was 20 or 30 minutes, yeah, cause the math doesn't lead. Yeah, something happened. They took the lead again. But it's weird because the way I looked at that play when that happened was that obviously after, you know, cheering and oh my God, that's so awesome. My thought was that doesn't happen for Illinois. Right. That happens against Illinois. But that does not happen for Illinois. And we had a lot of those moments. The Rutgers game was another one of those moments that doesn't happen for Illinois. That how are you watching that live as well? I watched that one live and are both of those moments. The Xavier Scott pick six and the Pat Bryant touchdown to beat Rutgers are those like stand up from your couch and yell at the tee. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Because, cause these Xavier Scott pick six was me, you know, you know, screaming at my, you know, computer. Let's go, let's go the, the, the, the Pat Bryant touchdown was a little different. I was watching that on my phone because I was doing, that was around Thanksgiving and I did one of those, you know, Thanksgiving, flat football things. So I was watching it on my phone as the second half of the third quarter and fourth quarter were kind of, you know, going about, so I was keeping an eye on it because I got it food afterwards. But then I'm doing that thing that very safe thing that if my parents are listening to, I definitely wasn't doing this where you're kind of holding your phone to off to the side and you're driving, keeping peaks at your phone and you're like, you're in a red line. It was, well, I was at a red light the whole way home crazy how that happens. So I, I get home and they're kicking the, they're getting ready to kick the field goal. And are you in your parking lot? I was in my parking lot. We had to wait. I had the way we're not going to go. I was not going to go inside. I was not going to. Yeah. I had, I had internet connection where I was sitting. I didn't care. I was using LTE or whatever it is. I was just thinking, I'm going to watch this right here. Game's going to be, I'm going to watch, it's going to finish here. And when they saw, if I remember correctly, when he caught the ball, when Pat Branks caught the ball, because I already told you I did not want them to go for it because I didn't know he missed the field goal as badly as he did, worked out for him. But when they, when he caught the ball and he started turning the corner, I don't even remember like saying like, go, go, go. My thought process, I think I just kind of looked at my phone and was just like, started to laugh like a, oh my God, like, how is this happening kind of thing? Which for me was like, so relieving and it felt so nice because I have done the same thing where I laugh at the phone thinking, Oh my God, how many times have we seen that? You know, when we see something similar to that happen, I feel like there's plays where I could really draw for, you know, the first time I had it, and I'll make this really quick, Illinois Penn State, 2013, my freshman year, we go to overtime at Penn State, they convert like a third and 15 or something to score a touchdown, Nathan Sheilhouse is great that game. He was, unfortunately, on his only play of overtime, the play after they throw a touchdown on third and 15 from the 25 or something, Nathan throws a pick, and I remember thinking like, we had this game, we had it. And I kind of like, you know, I dropped some expletives, but I also curse a little bit. Yeah. But then for the Rutgers game, it's like the opposite, you know, it's like, it's, you watch that and you think that doesn't happen for us. It does not happen for us. And I think, you know, my experience watching that Rutgers moment, I would agree that the Kansas game was the, oh, wow. Yeah. And then we both agreed that Nebraska game was, oh, damn, then the, yeah, the, this is legit. The Kansas game was the, oh, we might have something here because I remember calling my dad afterwards and saying, we, I was looking ahead. And I was, and I even that I thought like I was a little oversell. So like, you know, the basket could happen. Penn State could happen. I think Michigan will happen because I think they had just lost to Texas or looked bad smoked. So, but my dad was like, okay, it's Michigan still hold off. But after Nebraska, like you said, me and you agreed, like that's not, that was one of the, the calculations change. Yeah. That's because you won the road game in a tough environment. I guess the rights team. Yeah. And knew that, well, Penn State, Oregon are two tough road tests. But if we beat Nebraska, the way that people thought of Nebraska, yeah, well, maybe we could win one of those two games. And by the way, at that point, Oregon was not playing like number one, Oregon yet because they had a lot, they had, I was going to say they'd lost. They had a tough game at home. It's Boise State. They don't. Yeah. Boise State. We thought, Oh my God, they barely beat Boise State. Now they're both in the playoff. So the Rutgers game, the pap right moment, which essentially punched your ticket to the citrus bowl. Yeah. Because Rutgers was maybe the only other team that could have had an opportunity. And I'm sure the citrus bowlboard loved that sarcasm. I felt like I said it too convincingly. But you know, I'm watching that. You had your experience. I think that's cool. Like there have been moments where I've watched big moments on my phone. I got back from Cancun watching the Yankees on my phone in the ALCS. And it doesn't really matter what medium you're watching a big game. Like you get into it. Yeah. I'm in my in-laws in Michigan. And like you thought, why are we not kicking it? Because I didn't realize how bad they missed the first kick. And the moment he turns that corner, I mean, it's just me watching the game because they're getting ready for an early Thanksgiving dinner the weekend before actual Thanksgiving. And I'm yelling, like just hooting and hollering and just like it felt so good, Harry, because what you mentioned there is so accurate where those signature moments, I've been so few and far between for Illinois football. And it was why I grew this distaste for Iowa and Wisconsin thinking, dude, screw them in their fans that could have these moments. I want my moments. Yeah. And I know it was Rutgers. And I know it wasn't at Oregon or at Ohio State. But you know what? It was good enough for me. That moment of pure euphoria when he turned the corner and got the game winning touchdown. And then just all the cool little extracurriculars afterwards, like the shot afterwards that I still love of Luke, Luke, like feinting, I was so scared that he saw a flag and that's why he fell down. Oh, that's not a bad read on that because it kind of it could have been. But when he did that, and now it kind of is an extra little part of that, that the lore, the lore of that play and just even the, you know, the time out that sure, maybe great Shiano shouldn't have called it, whatever, to just do that all the time. And that and then be almost saying, nah, we got to go for it. And that actually worked. And all they needed was a first down to get it more manageable kick when Brian caught that I thought at first, I didn't say it. But at first, my first thought was he's going to go down. They're going to get up there. They're going to spike in. They would have time to do they would have time to do that. Yeah, but he just kept going. And you know, and what I love, the downfield blocks. Yeah, which has been a strength of that wide receiving room all year, the downfield blocks sprung in. Yeah, but I'm always, I'm always anti wide receiver blocking because I'm just thinking, that's not what you're supposed to do. Let's not let's not hear, you said not wide block. Yeah, yeah, go out there and catch the wide receiver. Yeah, but it's funny you mentioned Wisconsin because we have like direct evidence of a situation where we, you know, Wisconsin pulling one out of their, you know, hat, you know, out of their, you know, what often when Iowa more so, well, the one pulling it out of. Yeah, but the one for Wisconsin that comes to my head is last year against us. That shouldn't have happened. And it did because it was against us and because there was constant. And that's almost, it almost happened two years ago with Iowa, when you know, what was it? Um, or Kowski, or it's the Kowski. Yeah, the bear wasn't. And just seeing who was that? That wasn't Cooper to Jean, was it? It was someone's, it was not, I don't think it was Cooper to Jean. Yeah. We had two friends, uh, let's say football game friends of ours that have seats in front of us, they left. They're like, oh, the end it's over. I get it. Yeah, they couldn't do it again. Yeah. It is amazing, Harry, to me. The bigger macro discussion, uh, that will end with here is the complete reversal of how fans and then for your former player perhaps feel about the fortunes of a line of football. Yeah. Because in the span of four years, it's not just that Brett Bielma has made two new year's bowl games in four years. That's insane to say, by the way, it's insane here. Yeah. It's not just that. It's that during the Rutgers game, I didn't have that. Oh, we're going to find a way to lose this in my gut. Yeah. To me, the bigger accomplishment than the mere making a good bowl game is that when I now go to the tailgate lots and Saturdays, I'm not thinking the shoe is going to drop. Yeah. That is such a Herculean effort to completely change what what has essentially been a decades long mindset for a lot of football fans. And I will add a justifiable mindset because they were disappointed time and time again. Yeah. So to me, this nine and three season for what was a good alumni roster, but I don't think either of us would say great. Yeah. It was an overachieving team. It was a team that made clutch plays. They didn't make many mistakes. They do not have a single bad loss in the schedule because Minnesota was fine. Minnesota happens. It's it happens. Yeah. That that happens a good team. You lose by one score to a to a good team. It happens. Right. So so to me, that's just it. It's like I'm sitting here and I'm thinking even tomorrow in South Carolina, it might not go well. Yeah. But I'm not going to, if it does go badly, say, yeah, typical Illinois. Yeah. Again, I'm going to say, I was a bad matchup. Yeah. Which is what normal football programs do. Yeah. Exactly. When they get out of their own way and they stop thinking that there's a ghost or jinxes or hexes out to get them. Yeah. Because there's not that against Illinois and Brett Beelman seem to do a pretty unbelievable job, I think, of kind of reading us of that toxic mindset. Could you imagine if we win tomorrow? I oh, my God, I just where's the nearest gentleman's club? There's let's see. I'm the first thing that came to my mind. I was like, Oh, are we near the silver bullet? I was like, wait, no, that's Savannah. That's her bad. No, there's a well, there's certainly no shortage of them around here. I would tell you. Are there any casinos in Orlando? I don't think they're all in. I have a nicest Lyft driver on the way to the point today and she and her husband are going down to Miami tonight so they can go out to the casinos for his birth. I know there's definitely some places close-ish because I mean, this is, you know, there's a state known for for Seminoles and you know, they got the reservations. Right. I'm sure there's a casino around here somewhere. I know there's not a lot of places that really do a ton of sports gambling because my my is illegal in Florida. It is, but only on a couple laps. I think like, like, I don't even know. I have Fandall benefits. Fandall, it doesn't work on. I'm not going to say the one that it does work on because I don't want to get them free publicity. No, it's fine. Yeah. But I will say, I will say, if you want to gamble, I don't know, I can't think of a pun hard rock. That's that's the one that I can that you can use. We enter places, rock tons. Yes, we did. Yeah. They didn't have cocktails. They have rock tails. I refuse to order their hamburger, whatever the fun name was. I just I didn't even look at the rest of the the menu. I just looked at the guys that I got a hamburger medium. Well, this comes with fries. Cool. I'll say my old fashion was great. I'm not even it was a whole production. Yeah. Yeah. It was a very old one and everything. Yeah. You know, if anyone should get free publicity, those of you in Orlando come to rock and brew. It's just a really fun time. It was great. I thought I thought for the price I've had one to my bill and I thought that's reason. Yeah. No, I mean, that was cool. Me too. Yeah, I got a I got a tall boy of angry orchard to sugar for me. Yeah, probably sugar for God day. Yeah. So we're sitting here on this Monday night. Yeah. It's December 30th and it's about 10, 25 Eastern time after she stays lazy. You are here. Eastern time zone. I mean, how like do you stay up normally like midnight? Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I'm home with my family now. I told you the the shenanigans we get up to. I just love coming home and being home with my family. And honestly, my parents, you know, they go to sleep around maybe 11 30 or 12. Okay. But then me and my sister will be like, you know, playing like video games or just, you know, watching Rick and Morty or Lord of the Rings or whatever until like 1 30 or 2. I get way off my sleep schedule around this time of year. It's great. It's fine. It's so much fun. But no, I mean, you we keep going back to that. What if they won tomorrow? And I do think that, I mean, like I said, I would come back here. I record podcasts and just sort of bask in the glow. And to me, it would be one of the biggest wins that I can remember for a lot of football, which is saying something about a bowl season that doesn't maybe have the same pop that it did. I do like the fact that this bowl game has two teams that do want to be there. Yeah, that's fun. And did I want Alabama because I was going to bring that up. Yeah. Yes, I did. Yeah. I was. That is a good point. That's the you actually put it the the only way I've heard it so far where I don't mind it being South Carolina is that South Carolina probably does want to be here. It should be. I mean, I think a pretty inspired performance by both teams. Yeah. And I think that if it was Alabama, they would probably just stroll out whoever didn't opt out. It might be close. They might wax us in either way. I mean, I did want Bama. I mean, and I still am pretty convinced that there's no actual reason that Alabama isn't playing us. It has to be just name recognition. I wonder if the Big Ten and SEC didn't talk a little bit about, okay, listen, if we went South Carolina to get this game, then we get a more marquee match up for the Real Eye Quest deal and that's Michigan and Alabama. And honestly, I know it sounds ludicrous. I would not be surprised if Michigan won that game. Yeah. Only because in bowl games, sometimes it's who's who wants to be there more. And that's why I wanted Alabama at first because I thought, oh my God. Can you because if they didn't want to be there and we beat them? Yeah. And you're saying, God, Joe Schmo doesn't care about how many opt outs Alabama has. No, but it turns out South Carolina, only two, Illinois, only one. Yeah. Two teams that want to be there. I mean, I do think though, what a capper to a season. And listen, if Illinois wins tomorrow, yes, I will do a podcast right here, slightly lower sonic quality, but you know, fine nonetheless. But to me, it's just the fact area that this is such a, a season that was thoroughly enjoyable. And I think one thing that I came away with is this. You mentioned at a dinner night that this team never really had a lull. Yeah, they never had a valley. The closest thing they had to that was when they lost Oregon, they came back home, they lost them to the soda. Yeah. And then they have a bi-week. So you all, you went four weeks between wins yet. No one faulted us for losing it Oregon. Yep. Oregon has a pretty good shot to win the whole damn thing. I think they, I think they're probably favored. I mean, I think whoever beats whoever wins the Oregon Ohio state game, I think wins. Yeah, I think that's fair because I think they're the, I'm just going to say Texas is going to be to Arizona state. I think it's anything like last weekend. Yes. And then Boise state doesn't have a great shot against Penn state though. We'll see. I think that won. Now I might just be falling under the umbrella. That don't even invest in the right term. Falling under the spell of, ooh, it's, it's Boise state. I saw this wild stat that said, I have a theory is why Boise state is good shot. So Boise state has played, this will be, I think they're playing in the Fiesta Bowl, right? Correct. This will be the fourth time they've played in the Fiesta Bowl. The other three times. Class. Underdog, underdog, underdog. Statue of Liberty, Plano six. Yeah. And they won all of them. And now Penn state is seven to no in the Fiesta Bowl. Oh, something's got to give. Something's got to give. And that thing is Drew Aller is the most uninspiring good quarterback I've ever seen. Yeah. I do not trust that guy for anything. It started last year when on Jeremy's podcast, he interviewed a Penn state guy and he basically did the whole Drew Aller is half man, half centroir, half deity, bull crap. Yeah. Which, which I'm listening to on a run. I'm like, this guy is so far up Drew Aller's butthole, right? Yeah. Plus Drew Aller isn't even as good as his brother. Draw a nunner. All none. I miss these. I miss these. Draw a nunner. I missed the games. I missed them. Draw a nunner. I remember a couple of years ago before Cooper to Jean was an eagle. I love Cooper to Jean. He's so good. He's so good. I think I said like, yeah, Cooper to Jean's pretty good. But what about his brother Cooper to pants? Oh my God. Why not just Cooper Deneem? Oh, that's good. Cooper Deneem kill. Yeah, Cooper Deneem. God dang it. No, but I do think that, you know, as you look at, we're talking how do we give the college room a play of conversation? We're talking about Drew Aller. Oh, yeah. Boys estate, Penn state. Oh, well, we're just talking. Well, this is what we left off to you from that was that I mentioned losing to Oregon, yeah, Minnesota, and then the bi week was the equivalent of a lull. To me, you know, it's so funny here. Out of all the memorable games this year. I don't know why. Well, I do know why beating Michigan state 38 to 16. Not a very good Michigan state team. Yeah. But the reason why that was meaningful, it was two birds one stone. One of them was two years ago, you had a not so good Michigan state team coming down. Yeah. You were off. I think we were 17 point favorites in that game, 17 and a half. Yeah. Yeah. And they just straight up beat you when it was in it was not close. That that one, the Purdue game was like, they kind of outplayed you. The Michigan state came two years ago. Yeah, there was wind. Yeah, it was ugly. It was never closed. They were better than you. Yeah. Which was that was a demoralizing thing. It was very demoralizing. And I try to talk myself out out of this notion after the game that that was maybe a harbinger of bad things to come against Purdue, which it was. But no, I think that Michigan state game to me was such a line of demarcation for this team compared to two years ago, where at that point, all of a sudden, now you're seven and three with two games left. And I thought, wow, like you, you may not do what you did two years ago. Yeah. And to me is an Alana football fan. And you saw that in 2022 as well, how demoralizing it is when it doesn't go well at the end of the year. After a good start, this team was steady. Yeah. They were remarkably steady. They were never, I think, objectively great, but they were objectively good. Yeah. And they didn't get in their own way. And most of all, what they did was they flipped those 50 50 results in their favor. They avoided bad losses. They avoided any catastrophic plays at the worst times. All of those things just find the face of what Alana football has tended to do in recent and long term history. And that's why we're sitting here in Orlando getting ready for a citrus bowl appearance. Oh, my God. I'm ready for it. Me too. Yeah. And even when, when we, because it did go Oregon, Minnesota by, right? Right. And then I remember we lost those two and then we had the bite. I didn't even feel like that's the closest thing you could say was a lull. And I didn't really feel like, Oh, my God, here we go again. It just kind of felt like, well, you had, you played the best team in the country. And then you played a good team. I remember the line that game was, I think it was like, I think it was a pick them Minnesota was favored. They were favored by like, what? Two and a half. Two and a half. So yeah, which is essentially. Yeah. So then I hate though, really the home team gets three. So that's essentially saying Minnesota was a touchdown better than you, which I mean, you know, at first you say, Oh, come on, what are you saying? But they've been Minnesota metrics wise was better than you this year. Yeah. But it just goes to show that they got blasted by Rutgers, didn't they? They did. Yeah. They did the week before they played us. College football is weird, man. It's Oh, no, I'm sorry. The week that we beat wasn't Michigan State because I know, sorry, you know, it was the week it was our bi week after we lost in Minnesota, Minnesota goes on the road of Rutgers and they lose by 13. Yeah. Now it was closer than the final score indicated, but no, I mean, what what that just shows you is Minnesota, whether it be the opening lost to North Carolina, yeah, did not age well, or the loss at Rutgers by two scores. Well, what was the difference between Minnesota and us? I don't know, we just didn't shoot ourselves in the foot as much as they did. And that's the thing that you look around, not just Minnesota, but the entire big 10, you know, minus the teams at the top, which, you know, awesome that we're one of those. Right. But you look at games between, and I don't think these were games, but say you have like Maryland versus Michigan State. Yeah, and Maryland's better on the year, but then Michigan State beats them, or you have Minnesota versus, you know, like Wisconsin, and Wisconsin's better, but then Minnesota beats them. We didn't really have any of those. We lost the two teams that were better than us. And then we played a team who was pretty much, like you said, metric wise was right on par with what we were. All the other teams that were close to us or that we were better than the teams that we were better than we beat. The teams that we were even with, aside from Minnesota, we beat. You didn't have any of those weird games. Like, I think it was when Nebraska played Indiana, yeah, Indiana was good this year, Indiana was probably not 11 to one good, like they, they killed them. They killed, and that was, I think the Michigan Illinois weekend. Yeah. So, so like that, that's a game where, and obviously, it's, you know, king of hypotheticals situation right here, but if Illinois plays Indiana right there, I don't think you'll lose by 49 points. So, and then that's just speaking on to what this team did this year. If you have a game against them where you're saying, yeah, okay, well, Illinois, it wasn't their day in Bloomington, they lost to them 35-28. I could see that, and I'd be fine with that if we knew what Indiana was. Well, and then, I mean, the Penn State game, which I thought Penn State probably could have won by more than 21. Oh, that was, that was Franklin, doing Franklin, like he coached that game horribly. He did, but, but before the first half was over, your first in goal, that snap. Like, you know, listen, you just have to make those plays, but the good thing is that kind of play was uncharacteristic. Yeah, that was the outlier. That was the outlier, and it just so happened. If it's going to happen, what happening in the game that you may not win anyway. Exactly. Where it came down to the games that were more toss-up, I mean, I was looking back at the Kansas highlights today, and Zachari Franklin had a really ill-timed fumble at midfield. Yeah. Oh, I remember it was in the, was that in the first half? It was, yeah. Yeah. And between that and Aiden Woffrey dropping a surefire touchdown in the first drive, the first drive, it was a beautiful drive called by Loney, and then he had an awesome third down in goal call. Yep. But that was the admiration. And you know what happens when you have, when you have games that are close, and you do, and I love Isaiah. I know, I know what you're saying. We had a couple of those last year. Didn't we have that against, I think that happened against Northwestern. I think that happened against, I forget what other game, but there was a couple of games where you fumbled it, or he fumbled it. On, like, Isaiah had a bit of fumbleitis on punts. Yeah. It came home to really hurt you in the Northwestern game, which would, which caused you a bold appearance. And that's, obviously, we were better this year, but those are the kinds of things you're talking about. We didn't have any of those this year. I mean, to me, and this is going to sound maybe short-sided, but as good as Isaiah was, and for him going from quarterback to wide receiver, and being kind of like one of the guys that helped you turn around your program's fortunes, I'm going to look at Pat Bryant more fondly. Yeah. And it's just as simple as this. It's the same thing with Illinois basketball. Who won more? Yeah. And that's it. And I know that can be very reductive. But could that be similar to, like, obviously, I don't hear a Chan versus I am. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. And I don't think I love Isaiah, but I don't think I think I did a little bit more than, than Isaiah did as far as for the program. But I do think that's, I think that's apt. I sound like such a surly borderline 40-year-old when I say this, but it's like, let's say they both come back to campus in the same year. Yeah. Isaiah comes back and I'm like, hey, Isaiah, you were awesome because he was awesome. Yeah. First team, all big 10. He was part of that eight-win team. Yeah. He was one of the bright spots on a five and seven team. But, yeah. If he doesn't like it. And then you think, well, what did Pat do this year to ever put the team in jeopardy? Yeah. He had two overtime three down three. Well, yeah, the two overtime. And then the rocket one. Yeah. So three game-winning touchdowns. Three game-winning touchdowns. Is an insane thing to say, but yeah, no. I mean, it's crazy, you know, because it is- And you're the most impressive in a weird, I mean, while the record is one, of course. Yeah. The Purdue touchdown was sick. Yeah. That was like, I don't know if that was a better thrower catch. It was in the back of the end zone from back of the end zone. Back of the end zone, it was a dime. Yeah. And then Pat just made the catch. But, no, I, you know, this is what's so cool, though, is that you were in this position now where if a Zakari Franklin came back. Yeah. And then it's like, okay, queue up the highlights. It's like, okay, well, he has one hand to catch his Kansas. Yeah. He has the unbelievable touchdown against Michigan State at home. Yeah. The sideline of the end zone. Well, I mean, that was an NFL catch. Total NFL catch. And it's like, oh, man. And it could be 10 years from now. And it's like, oh, man, that's a Corey Franklin was pretty damn good. Yeah. I mean, these sorts of things, Harry, where you get these names that kind of build up in the war of Alana football, and it's not the most illustrious history. So it doesn't take a whole lot for these guys to become. Yeah. Yeah. All time great. Which is, you know, kind of, like you said, it's unfortunate for its program. It's been around for a longer than 100 years. But it's true. Yeah. I mean, you have, you have Pat Bryant set in the, what is it, the, the program record and touchdown receptions? Yep. And tying it. Tying it. Yeah. Good. Well, a man, they were trying to feed him later in the game. Because it was Western. It just never quite happened. You know, I took an alt line on that game. Illinois minus 10 and a half. They were my seven. They won 38 to 28. Oh, 10. That's right. Wait, score. Yeah, because I took the alt line like a fool. And I think Northwestern went for two on the touchdown and they got it. I think you're right. I think you're right. Oh my God. All right. Before we get out of here, our dollars, I'm never seeing again. Prediction. Yeah. What do you think tomorrow? I mean, we're just going to get this out there in case they're super accurate or. Yeah. All right. So God, should I, should I guess with my heart? Yeah, I have to. I have to. All right. Oh boy. Yeah. OK. So tomorrow. Illinois. Illinois 20. You know, let's get weird. It's a bowl game. Let's get weird. Illinois 26. Illinois 26. And we'll say. Let's get really weird. Illinois 26, South Carolina 25. How do you even get to that score? Skorogami. Yeah. I love Skorogami. Skorogami is great. Yeah. OK, I cannot predict the line I win only because I do think that there's a lot of legit juice behind what South Carolina did. Yeah. But it is a bowl game. Things happen. Both teams will play inspired ball. Illinois will show up, I think, to play. I think they'll have a decent game plan. Basically, like OK, Jalen Daniels, Lenore Sellers. Sellers is a bigger, hotter version currently right now Jalen Daniels. But he's still young. I do think he'll make a mistake or two. I'm going to say South Carolina 30. OK. And Illinois 24. OK. Now here's the thing. It could be where it's 30 to 17 and you get a late touchdown. And yeah. OK. I am trending towards the feeling that I'm not going to leave that stadium thinking, God, we got to ask it. Yeah. I don't think we will. I could see that. I could see a late touchdown kind of, you know, making the score look better than it would would have been. I could definitely see a situation up with a fake rally where say you're down. I'll just use the number you did. Say you're down 30 to 37. And then you score two touchdowns 30 to 21. Oh my God. We can really get the ball. Or even more fun. 28 21. And you're like, Oh man, there's four minutes left. We get the ball back. We're going to go score a touchdown. We're going to tie it. And then they, you know, they get a couple first downs. They win 31 21 or they break one. They win 35 21. I could see something like that happening. God, could you imagine if it's 26 25? We would have to save this and send it. Again, final year's general club. And then I will pay for your evening for whatever you want to do there. We'll spend hours there for my evening. And I'll go to I'll go to Disney World on New Year's Day and a little worse for where, but don't make it through. Now I will say this too. As I look at that game tomorrow, you know, I do think that Illinois's defense oddly enough. You know, I heard Jeremy can theorize this on their podcast that he feels okay about the online defense. And here's where I agree with him on that. The Illinois secondary is fully healthy. Yeah. And they were pretty good this year. And there's not a single South Carolina wide receiver that is someone who scares you. Yeah, there's no, and there's no NFL dudes right now. Xavier Licket go there. I think he did, because that he right. Yeah, he was good. He's so beast. So if you are somehow, like, if you just make it a little bit more difficult for the Illinois sellers, I know he got his against really good SEC defenses, a few of them. I don't know. I just feel like the secondary can keep things in front of them. I mean, this is one of those games where it's Aaron Henry goes into that just force 15 play drives. Yeah, fine. Make them make mistakes. Yeah, the more plays. Yeah, you don't want, don't want to get a 70 yard touchdown. Don't don't give them easy ones. Do the this would be a situation where you're trying to, um, you're trying to implement the bend, but don't break defense. And that that will help you stay in this game, make a competitive. Yeah. And then dude, if it's a one score game on the fourth quarter, we had to aside from Oregon, I think every game was either one score as he was 14, seven. Yeah. Or it was one score game or in our favor. So either we were up by a good amount or one score game. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. No, if this game's a one score game going into the fourth quarter, then then you're happy. Yeah. You know, I think it's, I, I wouldn't be shocked. I say you play this game 10 times. I think Illinois wins two or three. I think it's fair. Yeah. I think it is. Yeah. It'd be more than one. Yeah. And with that in mind, it's like, well, just shoot your shot. I didn't fly down here if there was a zero percent. That's true. Now, it's having said that if Illinois was playing, well, I guess if Illinois was in a situation where they were playing a team that, you know, was really good in a bowl game, Illinois would have to be pretty good too. So that's a, that's not good. I'll do it anyway. Do it. So Illinois is playing Alabama, good Alabama, one loss, Alabama, one loss to Georgia, with no opt-outs, no opt-outs. It's a big game, but it's also, this is 10 years ago, it's, it's the, it's the at large BCS game. It's the Fiesta Bowl. Are you flying down to, uh, to, tostito stadium or wherever that game's played? I think so. Yeah. Yeah, because it's like, I mean, what the heck, man, I, again, I have no delusions about a lot of football. I, I don't need them to be great. Yeah. I want to celebrate when they're good. Yeah. And they are good. And, and the Pepper Alley today, I got to give Whitman, I got to give Bilema and I got to give Chancellor Jones credit. They each specifically thanked the fans saying, and I know it sounds token, saying we aren't here without you. Yeah. But to me, the subtext was, we understand that you've been with us through not good years, through the Harry Black years, if you will. And, and I know Whitman knows that. I know Bilema knows that and that's exactly what he's finding against why he fights against the past. He's like, I don't care about that. Yeah. And I agree, I know he doesn't care about it. He recognizes it, but he's like, screw that. That just doesn't affect me. And Chancellor Jones has bigger fish to fry than that. So, to me though, the fact that they mentioned that does indicate that, okay, yes, it's been rust sliding and, but we're here. Yeah. I mean, the fact that I'm, I'm meeting up with a lot 31 tailgate friends, like a thousand miles away from home. Yeah. And it's like, not even a second thought. It's like, no, we were going to come to a bowl game like this. Yeah. It's pretty cool. And I even noticed too that, you know, between the Illinois and South Carolina fans there, there'll probably be a few more South Carolina fans there tomorrow. Probably. Proximity. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. Listen, they're passionate fan base that has had their own share of tough football history. So, they're really excited too. Yeah. I think that is actually one cool component about this bowl game. Two very easy to root for football programs that have not been very successful historically. Yeah. But it was packed, Harry. It was like, people were just so happy to be there. Yeah. And you know what? Some Amiekis fan, if they don't win the World Series, it's a failure. Yeah. And sometimes I look at that and I say, well, I like those high stakes. But then other times I'm like, wait, it's just sports. Yeah. And if I'm having a good time rooting for my team, that's enough. Yeah. And I mean, for, you know, how, how great would it be? Yeah. If we got to a, I guess there are no new year six games anymore to the playoffs. That's right. Yeah. And it's like, how great would that be? Of course, it would be amazing. But in college football more so anything else, just because it is so hard to even qualify for something like that. Yeah. NFL, you can be nine and eight and you're getting to the dance and you have a chance. But in this, you really have to enjoy the season because for most programs, that's what you get. You get the season and then you get a good bowl game to kind of celebrate your good season. We had a good season this year. We had a great season this year and we're at a good bowl game to celebrate it. And I think God, it would be so cool. Yeah. Just look good, look the part look how you have put on a show show show. It's going to be on national television. Yeah. People are going to tune in on their New Year's Eve or they're just hanging at home before their party, whatever they're going to. And they would love at what would be, I guess, 6 p.m. Eastern or 5 p.m. Central when it gets in the fourth quarter. Damn. Oh, this is a good game because then I know when it's, I can just picture it right now. So is this game going to be on ESPN? I think we see. Maybe. Okay. Well, yeah. Very ESPN. If it's, you know, six and one half dozen with those two. If you get, and you just know, say the games, I don't know, 24 or 20, either way, five minutes, what five minutes left in game, people see that gone in the corner. What's what's going on over here? Check it out. Let's check it out. Then you get all the eyes, then if you whoo, then if you were to win a game like that, oh man, even if you keep it close in a situation like that, the way that looks going forward, and we're not going to get into what this means for next year, because how many times have we seen exactly what a season like this leads to next year? That's, that's future, future, uh, Illini fans problems, but man, could it really bode well if you just look the part tomorrow and you have Luke Omar and you have him coming back and I love that guy too. Man, he, he is a tough M effort. He is tough and he's got swag in a way that I did not know we had. Yeah. And I do think there's something to be said about that. He, he is someone that struggled little miss to get a spot. And then he came here and he struggled his first year at Illinois and credit to him, man. He stuck it out. And you know, it's so funny. He threw a pick six because Northwestern and I was like, God, what are you doing? And then I, and I stopped and I was like, wait a second. That's, that's literally the first throw all year where I've been like, what the hell are you doing? And it took the last game of the season, 12 games. Yeah. It's like, eh, you can afford one. Yeah. It happens. Yeah. Uh, Harry, I appreciate, man. This is fun. So much fun. It was great catching up. And then, you know, we, we talked a lot on a football dinner, but we saved a lot of that for this conversation. You're going the game tomorrow. I'm going the tomorrow. We'll meet up before that as well. And I know the fans of the podcast are excited to hear your voice again. So yeah. Yeah. No, no, it's, it's, it's fun. You know, it's always fun getting to come back and do these because I, I'm a little, I'm a little rusty. I've been out of the, I've been out of the, you're, you're fine. You brought it today as you always do. And I, I do think too, just, uh, yeah. I mean, just great serendipity that, you know, we're in Orlando for this game. And I, I know it's a treat for you to see your alma mater play at what, so camping world stadium was formerly called the citrus. Camping world stadium. I always just, everyone around here calls it the citrus. Okay. Because that's what it was when it was made. That's where, um, we played, uh, that's where we played, uh, state championship game when I was in high school. It seems like a decent stadium. It's fine. You know, it's, it's like, I think it's 40, 50 years old. It's a big concrete. It's one of those big old concrete things like the, uh, like old veteran stadium in Philadelphia or RFK or whatever it's called FedEx field. A future home of the, uh, commanders. Uh, RFK are going to renovate this. Are they really? They passed a resolution in the, uh, Senate. Uh, where it's like, well, we could get the commanders back to actual DC. Where have they been playing? Landover, Maryland. Oh my God. FedEx field. That's me. I got it. Not just currently is. I hate Washington. I hate that team so much. I, I, I don't think they're a threat to your Eagles. No, I hope not, man. But, uh, no, I'm excited to get to it tomorrow and we'll see you over there as well. But, uh, yeah. Thanks for coming by. Yeah. Sorry. Always fun. Always fun. Uh, we're going to sign out here. Uh, I got to thank the sponsors of course, Hamilton Walkers, State Farm, Agent Brian Hanson, Dogtown Heger, and Plumbing and Owen Builders, LLC. Uh, Sal Luke Owen earlier today at the Pepper Alley. So Luke, appreciate it. Appreciate all of you listening as well. And, uh, just want to get this podcast out before the bowl game. It may not be that timely 24 hours from how it was by a lot, uh, but fingers crossed that we don't and, uh, just wanted to kind of recap the season and the state of the line. I football with a former Alana football player himself in front of the podcast. Go host Emeritus Harry Black. Harry in pleasure. Always fun. All right. Thank you so much for tuning in guys. Uh, whether you're listening to this overnight or as you get ready for the game tomorrow, this is a live dispatch from Orlando, Florida. And, uh, hopefully after the citrus bowl tomorrow, we can have another one in celebration of a big Alana. I don't even say it. I know it could happen. But regardless it's been a great year and we appreciate you going along with us throughout the entire season. We will talk soon. It is the 200 level. [Music] [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]