KCBS Radio In Depth

Shooting hoops and shattering records: The rise of women's basketball

For those in the know, it’s been a long road from where it began to where women’s professional basketball is today. The WNBA got its start in 1997, but it wasn’t the first women’s league. The women’s professional basketball league formed in 1978 with franchises across the country, even a team in San Francisco—the Pioneers. And at the same time the W was getting its start, the American Basketball League was working to get more women on the court, too. While the WBL and ABL didn’t last, their formation spoke of a craving to see women’s basketball teams compete and to see more women hoop. And now, the WNBA, almost 30 years later, is not only surviving—it’s thriving, reaching a golden hour of popularity, global attention, and the kind of popularity it's been seeking all along. KCBS reporters Mary Hughes and Holly Quan take a deep dive into the rise of women’s basketball on this edition of In Depth.

Duration:: 35m
Broadcast on:: 03 Jan 2025
Audio Format:: other

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For example, trying to instruct an official proceeding of Congress, right? That is unlawful. This is KCBS in-depth. For those in the know, it's been a long road from where it all began to where women's professional basketball is today. The WNBA got its start in 1997, but it wasn't the first women's league. The women's professional basketball league formed in 1978 with franchises across the country, even a team in San Francisco, the pioneers. And at the same time that the W was getting its start, the American Basketball League was working to get more women on the court too. While the WBL and ABL didn't last, their formation spoke of a craving to see women's basketball teams compete, to see more women hoop. And now the WNBA, almost 30 years later, is not only surviving, it's thriving, reaching a golden hour of popularity, global attention, and the kind of clout that it's been seeking all along. Welcome to KCBS in-depth, broadcasting throughout the Bay Area and streaming on the Odyssey app. I'm Mary Hughes. Interest in women's basketball, not just the pros, but from high school to collegiate play as well, is at an all-time high right now, with eyes on the new wave of superstars in the WNBA, like Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. It's up, it won't go. Clark pulls it down, and this building knows what that means. Oh, it's a triple double for Caitlin. What a great reaction by Kelsus. Good has Angel Reese been today 23.16 boards. She's been efficient. She's got it done on the defense last. To players who have been elevating the league for years, like Asia Wilson and Brianna Stewart. Asia, at the rim, counted 40 points. Asia Wilson, what can't you do? He's in the spin move. Asia Wilson, just stop it. Dude, this place is going. Let us team, Stewart, for Queens. Seven to shoot, Stewart, the crossover, the lean. The bank, plus the foul. A little shrug from the two-time champion. And there's no shortage of fanfare for women's basketball in the Bay Area, especially now that we've got our own WNBA team to rally around. The Golden State Valkyries, whose inaugural season kicks off in 2025. KCBS reporter Holly Kwan did a deep dive into the energy behind this moment for women's basketball with her series, The Rise of the W, the booming popularity of women's basketball. And she's my guest on this episode of In-Death. KCBS reporter Holly Kwan, thank you so much for being a part of this in-depth conversation. Happy to be here. So I promise this first question here isn't a litmus test kind of question for you. But before doing this series on women's basketball and its rise in popularity and what that means for the Bay Area, how familiar were you with women's basketball? Well, I knew that Tara Vandiverre at Stanford was phenomenal. I knew she had an incredible track record, but I could not tell you that I had watched a single women's basketball game. And I couldn't tell you that I knew where Kitwin Clark even went to college, or even Sabrina Enescu. So I got to tell you, I learned a lot in doing this project. And I'm like, yeah, I can see why people are so excited about it. And yeah, I'd be eager to watch what happens as this grows and we go into the next seasons for college and for the WNBA. Well, obviously I think a lot of people are feeling the same way as you, myself included. I have been a huge college basketball fan for most of my life, but I can say honestly that most of that was watching men. And it didn't translate for me until much later. But being here in the Bay Area, there is a deep connection to sports, to both collegiate and professional sports. And there's actually a strong history of women's basketball in the Bay Area that people may or may not be that familiar with. Sacramento Monarchs, the San Jose Lasers. You spoke with people who have been around since those early days. How are they feeling about this boom and interest right now? Oh, they're in so incredibly excited about it. And that was more stuff that I learned as well. I mean, born and raised in the Bay Area, and you're amazed at the kinds of things that you don't know. And so I spoke with Mary Murphy. She was the first coach of the Sacramento Monarchs. I've had guys that have never talked to me about basketball, come up and start talking about Caitlyn Clark. And I'm like, wow, there's just people that come along and that flip a switch. And it's kind of like everyone was in place and the lights went on. Looking at that schedule really made it real. You know, I was texting with some of the folks with the velcro reasons. Like, oh, yeah, like now we know on this day when Caitlyn Clark's coming, you know, coming to the chase, you know, like get your ticket. If you want to see that show or when Sabrina comes back to play, can you imagine the number of number 20 jerseys that are going to be in the building? I think it's going to be a really emotional day. She was phenomenal and just a wealth of information. Didn't even know that Sacramento was one of the original WNBA teams. She had great success and then that team had to fold. Joe Lakeab, who was a big, was a founder, I believe, of the APL, the American basketball league. But he also was a big investor in the San Jose Lakers. And that apparently didn't, it did well, but then it had to fold because it had actually competition from this brand new league, which was the WNBA. So from what I have heard, you know, he has had experience in it. He learned a lot and that is what has informed the timing and the decisions that brought about the Golden State Dockeries at this time, which, you know, they're going to have their inaugural year next year, their first game in May and it couldn't come at a better time. Well, and I'm glad you mentioned Joe Lakeab. There is a quote in one of one part of your series where he says, "We will win a WNBA championship in the first five years of this franchise." Which, of course, that's something anyone's going to want to be saying and feeling about a new team. But there's kind of a sense of, you know, I feel like there's a sense of pressure there to go along with the excitement. I would think that too. I mean, if over me, I'd be like, okay. But apparently, I mean, yeah, I guess you have to look at it differently. It's like, is it, is it pressure? Is it a challenge? Is it something that these players and the new coach, Natalie Nakase, would not have already expected of themselves? My non-negotiable is our number one competitiveness, ultra competitiveness. And again, you could see it the way they play. Every single player, they're competitive. Number two, they have high character and I watch from their body language, how they are when they come off the bench, how they are when they go to the bench. I watch all the little things. And then the last thing is a never satisfied mindset. Meaning like, they want to play as if their life depends on it. So, you know, it's one thing to have these goals for yourself. It's another thing for everyone to sort of know what they are. It's like saying, you know, I'm going to lose 20 pounds and I can keep that to myself. But if I go public with it, it kind of keeps you accountable in actually doing it. That's very true. One thing is that we are at a special time. Now, obviously the focus of this series is women's basketball and the popularity. That seems to really be on the rise. But there's just big strides being made in the Bay Area right now, when it comes to women's professional sports. We now have our expansion team in the NWSL with BFC. As we've been speaking here, the Golden State Valkyries, having their first year as a team next year. And there's a sense that this has all been a really long time coming. That's what I've heard from soccer fans when BFC showed up, was that they've been waiting for this in the Bay Area. It's taken so long and they're so eager. Is it the same energy for the Valkyries? I think it is and maybe even more so. Sometimes I feel like it might even be more mainstream. And a lot of that has to do with the Caitlin Clark Effect, Angel Reese, a lot of these WNBA rookie star class. They were stars in college and then they moved to the WNBA. And so there's already a lot of attention paid to it in a larger defense. And then you bring it home to the Bay Area with Sabrina Inescu. And it just feels like women's basketball, because it is also embraced by the cool guys. Like Steph Curry and Steve Kerr. Steve Kerr wore a Valkyries shirt on the sideline at the Paris Olympics. I remember seeing that on TV and went, look at that. He's got a Valkyries shirt on, you know. And so there's this embrace and maybe sort of an even non-verbal support. And that goes a long way. People said representation matters. It's that kind of support that's appreciated by the fans of women's basketball in the Bay Area, who Holly spoke with for part of this series about their excitement to be on the ground floor of the Valkyries hype. The energy inside standard deviation, the San Francisco Mission District bar is infectious. Valkyries season ticket holders gathering for this month's draft party. I mean, I've been a W fan since the league started, but it goes back even further than that for me. My dad used to take me to college basketball games when I was a kid. Everybody's stepping up. Like you saw Draymond Green wearing a Valkyries jersey at the game. You see Steph Curry talking about the team. You see these NBA players in celebrities showing up for women's games. I mean, Jason Sadecki was at all the New York Liberty games. You know, so it's not just a small niche thing. It is taken off. You know, one of the Bay Area's radio sports radio people Kate Scott, she now is the play-by-play for the Philadelphia 76ers. And she had said that, you know, it really seems like people are not seeing them as women basketball players. They're looking at them as back-to-well players that happen to be women. You have to be patient and you have to be intentional and you have to be deliberate, almost to the point where people are furious that you don't have a team yet. So that when you finally do launch that team, like we've seen in the last handful of months, the demand for tickets and gear and games is overwhelming because people have been pounding on that door, knocking on that door for so long. And, you know, look at -- Katelyn Clark was named athlete of the year for Time Magazine. So, you know, in this day and age, do you feel like you still have to reach for that kind of equality and in pointing out the fact that look at the popularity of women's basketball. We wouldn't have had to say, look at the popularity of men's basketball in the past, but I think that because these particular strides were made, leaps and bounds in the last year or so, at least mainstream-wise, you do have to sort of point that out and say, look how far you come. Well, and I think that, you know, sort of begs the question and it's something that I think about when I am thinking about where we stand right now with women's basketball and the attention that it's getting is -- there is that sense of how exciting this is, but also how do we keep that momentum going? What does that look like? I think some of that is kind of touched on, you have the chance of speaking with the legendary Tara Vandiver for those who aren't aware, former coach of the Stanford women's team and just -- again, an absolute legend. What is it that you've seen and heard in doing this series that seems to make that possible, that this isn't just another flash in the pan, so to speak? Yeah, Tara was great because she did look back at her history and say, you know, she played coach in some really big games and some really big TV games, and she said, sometimes it really feels like you're taking two steps forward, one step back, but now you have to keep taking those steps forward, and one thing I thought was really interesting after talking to a number of the Valkyrie fans and season ticket holders was this notion of not just fans, people who had watched women's basketball for a long time, either coming up in school, in high school or in college and finding that it was sort of like this niche sport that people are fond of, but I also found that there were a lot of dads and daughters, dads that either coached their daughters, dads who had their kids in young leagues when they were super young and or even in high school and people who had a fondness and an excitement for this game, but you know, once they hit college, there wasn't anything really marketable or something marketed to them that they could follow on, you know, in a mainstream widespread manner. I mean, there weren't games, there may have been, it may have been, you know, professional leagues, but you would have to look hard to find the games, and now they're everywhere, relatively speaking, and not difficult to find. So, you know, one, you have this notion that it's more marketable, that it's on TV more, and the WNBA that signed a multi-billion dollar media deal. So, they're going to get, you know, hopefully their share, but also when you get more eyes on these games and you get more, you know, people in the seats, that's going to create its own inertia. I mean, obviously, you know, people want to make money here, and these players in these stars in the WNBA, I mean, the salaries are, you know, they don't even compare to the regular NBA. So, there has to be some, they're going to approach some kind of equity at that point, but there is more equity now. There are definitely more people watching, and, you know, the money follows. 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Many people don't, but I'll call myself that today. I think that that momentum already feels a little bit to me like it can't be stopped now. I mean, I think what's happening in the college ranks is feeding this call to frenzy in women's pro-sport. I mean, when I think about the kind of energy and enthusiasm that has always been around women's college basketball, for as long as women's college basketball has been around, and now we're beginning to see that, whether it's through the, you know, the NIL deals or whatever it is, but, you know, to see people like Caitlin Clark and so many others, the entire LSU women's basketball team, to see the energy around those units. And then obviously, people want to follow those athletes into the pros, and that there is a space for them. I think that that kind of, that kind of enthusiasm can't be stopped now. People know they're great athletes. They don't have to be sold on that. They know it. And so, I'm hoping that that continues. Right now, we're at a point where young girls who might have an interest in playing basketball are seeing a pathway to, oh, this could be something I do professionally. It's not just something that's for fun. And then you have to just let it go as you get older. There's an actual reality that they can grasp onto. And we've mentioned her name a couple of times now, but I think someone who plays a big role in that is the Bay Area's own homegrown superstar. Your Nescu will keep and tip and tip Sabrina, your Nescu, with the biggest shot in Liberty history. Who will passion both on and off court an awareness to what her influence might be friend and mentor Steph Curry. About the girls to a game at Cal, and I was even saying just the way that she carries herself on and off the court. She understands the platform that she has. And, you know, she took 30, 45 seconds to talk to my girls and make them feel special and, you know, took a picture in the whole deal so she gets it. High school coach Kelly Sopeck says that fan love started years before. There would be three or four young kids wanting her autograph, and then there would be some old dudes that just really respected how she played and just wanted to shake her hand. To me, that was the coolest thing. And so when I see that now, it's the same people, and it's the same fan love affair that she had when she was at Miramani. It's just now the volume is bigger. She kind of sets a standard of what that can look like for girls who want to play, and especially girls who are already playing basketball here in the Bay Area. And you got a chance to see what that looks like firsthand. Yeah, and the interesting thing is that you're right. A lot of women, people that I had talked to, they thought, yeah, they were interested in it. They played it in high school. Maybe they played in college, and then Lisa, there was it. Full stop. But now, you know, there were options. You could play overseas. You could play, you know, in other leagues. But it wasn't like a real money-making, like, I can make a living off of this kind of thing. And now, at least they could look to the W NBA, especially with the expanding. I mean, even beyond the Valkyries, there are going to be two more teams, I believe, in 2026. I think it's Portland and Toronto. And, you know, now there are opportunities. So it's not just looking at these athletes for inspiration, but also potential opportunities, things that could be, you know, later on. This is Sue Phillips, women's basketball Hall of Famer and Archbishop Mitty High School coach. We are seeing an explosion in terms of interest. There's not quite equal pay, but there's certainly much more pay. The opportunities for our high school athletes being able to attend not only collegeism of full rides, but now there's NIL money involved to kind of set them up for their future. I would love nothing more than to see Haley Jones, Rina, and ask you some of these local players come back to the Bay, being able to go in the stands and cheer them on, because that's what we need to do. We need to support the women with sitting in seats and turning on the TV. This is the way we can continue to generate revenue for our women's sports moving forward. Every kid that goes to play tee ball or, you know, or softball goes, "Oh yeah, I could, you know, maybe I could get, you know, in the big ways. I could get in the show." Sure, you know, your parents just really want you to get to college and whether or not it's a full ride. They just want you to like, you know, get there, you know, baby steps. But, you know, before there really wasn't an option past college, and now there are so much, many more opportunities that potentially could be opening up. And I think that what they learned from the from the ABL before is to go, you had to go slow. It's been like, I think it's 14 years maybe. And then it's the last time they had an expansion team, but there's going to be only two years until the next two teams come. So, you know, you had to be careful about doing too much too soon, but also I think that a lot of these people learned something the last time around. And, you know, I spoke to Mary Murphy, who was the first coach of the Sacramento Monarchs, and she was also now a collegiate and WNBA analyst. And she says, "If you look at the number of people that are interested in investing in the next expansion team, Patrick Mahomes and his wife are interested, other people who have money are interested in investing in a team. And obviously these people, you know, want to do it also to make money. So, they think that there's a viable business opportunity there. And that can only help further expand the sport." Couldn't agree more with that. I think obviously there's the interest that comes from the passion of wanting to play the sport and to take it to great heights. But as you said, there is a business side to this. And we are at this wonderful space now where these two things are meeting at the same level. The financial interest is there to meet up with the interest of those who have been pushing for this for so long. And I guess, you know, my final question for you is with all that you have have learned and who you have gotten a chance to speak with on all this, I mean, are you have you put down your money for tickets for Valkyrie games next season? You know, how involved are you getting there? Well, I haven't done it yet. But here's the reason is because, you know, there are more seat deposits than there are seats. So you really have to figure out, like, how many seats are going to be available? And also what the price point is. I think that's an interesting thing too, is that we don't really know what the price point on some of these inaugural year tickets are going to be. But somebody, a couple people that I spoke to who were season ticket holders, were saying, "You know what? It's going to be more affordable for some people to be able to go and see really good, you know, purest basketball because they're priced out of a regular NBA, you know, game." And so the assumption is that it's going to be, you know, less expensive, but you can still be potentially right up close instead of way up and, you know, in the rasters. And, you know, that was an appeal to some of the people that I had talked to. This is not only do they love the women's basketball, but the fact that they feel like they can be in on the ground floor with this inaugural season, this team, you know, the season ticket holders, they're called the founding guard, which is kind of cool. I love that. And they said, like, it's so nice to be able to be in with the team like this and to be able to help them launch and, you know, be the first ones to see the name of the team, to see the first logo, to see the secondary logo, to see really cool people like, you know, Steph Curry and Dream Long Green wearing the merch and feeling like, okay, you know, that's that that's what I know to get for Christmas. Well, it certainly does feel like fans of women's basketball are this is such a gorgeous moment that's going on right now and in particular here in the Bay Area. And a great series have enjoyed listening to it. And I personally, I hope this has made you a women's basketball fan. Now, you know what, I can probably say, yeah, that's absolutely true. And part of it is also talking to some of the people who have been there, you know, from from years gone by, like the legendary Tara Vandiver. I'm actually teaching a class, you know, this winter quarter on kind of basketball and it's been really fun for me to really go back and study, you know, kind of early basketball for women. And we haven't always been encouraged to play, you know, Stanford Cal played in the 1800s. Women have not always been encouraged to play. And we just need to keep encouraging young girls to play, you know, their knowledge and then the history and knowing and also their excitement about where it's going to go. I'm anxious to see how this takes off and how the referees do in their first season and in subsequent years because, you know, they're going to be sticking around. Holly Kwan, thank you so much for being able to speak with me about this series that you've done on the popularity of women's basketball for in-depth. Mary, it's always good to talk to you. You can listen to all five parts of Holly's series, The Rise of the W, online at keycbsradio.com. It's part of our on-demand section. And you can find this episode and all past episodes of in-depth online at keycbsradio.com as well. You can hear in-depth episodes and many other KCBS programs on the Odyssey app on your smartphone. Download the Odyssey app on your smartphone and favorite key CBS. Thanks for listening for KCBS and in-depth. I'm Mary Hughes. You've been listening to KCBS in-depth. Get every episode by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher and other podcast platforms. Visit kcbsradio.com for more news and interviews. We are the Bay Area's news station, KCBS. The Apple Watch series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet-black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS are later required. 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