KCBS Radio In Depth

Just how advanced is AI today?

Artificial intelligence has been one of the most common buzzwords of late. But is it a tool to make life better, or something to fear? KCBS Radio report Matt Bigler spoke with tech analyst Ben Bajarin to answer these questions and more, on this episode of In Depth.

Duration:: 30m
Broadcast on:: 03 Jan 2025
Audio Format:: other

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You're listening to KCBS in-depth. Really, in order to find quality care, you often have to be on a waitlist that's months long. The people, places, and issues the Bay Area's talking about. The aggressive advocates who are looking to overall row for so long, they really had no idea of the consequences they might be opening up. In this case, there very well may be charges that are appropriate. For example, trying to construct an official proceeding of Congress, right? That is unlawful. This is KCBS in-depth. Artificial intelligence has been one of the most common phrases in our society of late. But is it a tool to make our lives better? Or something to be feared? I'm Matt Bigler with Odyssey news station KCBS in San Francisco, where my colleagues and I will be taking you on a journey across Silicon Valley to explore this artificial revolution and consider is the future automation. Ben Baharan is a Silicon Valley-based tech analyst. Ben, this term AI is bounced around quite a bit, but is what we're seeing out there really artificial intelligence? Oh, sure. No, it's a great place to start. It kind of feels like one of those philosophical discussions, right? Because you're right. There's a lot of ways to look at this. I think people who have been in this field for a long time look at some of the generative AI stuff that we have today, which is really just, I would say, some form of advanced to use a technical term, matrix multiplication, which just means that if you put in a word, it's essentially going to try to predict the next word or just string together logic of sentence structure and a whole host of other things, right? And that's just simple like math that's happening on our on our compute engines. Nobody would call that intelligence, right? Being able to say write me an essay on so-and-so and so topic, and it just goes to the internet and conforms something that looks readable. Again, it's automating a process. It's not really what we would sort of call intelligence. So I think there's a gap today as to what this idea is of where we'll go, where something might be truly intelligent, maybe even able to do or come up with ideas, concepts, creative ideas that humans can't or on the level with humans. That is not where we're at today. But I think the way I would look at at least today is that it's more of an augmentation type of intelligence. But the idea that this is now just augmenting us in helpful, quasi-useful ways, right? That's the world that we're at today with this quote unquote term artificial intelligence. Standing on a San Francisco streets, you might not notice that some cars passing you have. No drivers. Mike DeWald with Odyssey news station, KCBS, wrote along with one Californian who decided to give the self-driving rideshare company Waymo a try. The prospect of hopping into a moving car with no driver for some can be scary for others intriguing. When I first moved here, seeing these cars with the giant camera spinning and knowing in the driver's seat. Logan Pratt moved to San Francisco three years ago. I've definitely been wanting to try it. I just haven't really found the right time or made the effort to. We joined Logan on his first Waymo ride in San Francisco. We called up the app, which told us there would be a six minute wait on the way running into a protest. On that in a moment, right on time, we found our vehicle parked and waiting. Here we go. Wow. And it comes out for us. That's just fantastic. The car giving a welcoming greeting with relaxing music. Sounds like I'm in a spa. Surprisingly, the car also acknowledging what we encountered on the walk here. Our team is aware of the interaction to your ride. With that, we were off. The most obviously notable feature, no driver. This is so odd. There's no one in the front seat. The car maneuvering an average day of city traffic without issue. It's cool how the wheel is just like making like all these micro adjustments. So far, steady ride. A digital panel on the center console shows a detailed map of everything around. That has a whole view of every car, even their blinkers. We may use interior cameras to check on riders, improve our products, and more. But our microphones are only on when you're connected to rider support. This Waymo passes the test of a five-way intersection. That was a very complicated intersection. I would be a a little stressed myself driving across that one. The alternative, RideHail Services with a driver, have their positives and negatives. You know, sometimes you get a weird driver. Their car smells bad. Sometimes you're like, when did this person learn how to drive yesterday? Then there's the benefits of local knowledge of the neighborhoods. In cases of emergency, like, you kind of do need a human. Then about halfway through, it happened. A moment of seeming confusion as the car pulled up behind a large truck offloading. Uh oh. Now we're getting beat that. All right, let's see if it goes now. Oh, there you go. I thought we were going to be stuck there. Took a couple minutes, but crisis ultimately averted. I don't think I've ever done that. That made a choice right there because we had to go into oncoming traffic. Yeah, that was just right over the double yellow. With that, we reached our destination. Look at that. It pulls over off onto a side road. You're here. Please make sure it's clear before exiting. A successful roughly 40-minute ride, equating to an 18 dollar fare. Ride one complete. What's the assessment? Uh, it was great. I thought I would be scared, uh, but I wasn't. Pratt admits, despite a smooth ride, there are some elements that are tough to get used to. Seeing no human in the driver's seat was very weird. Is that the sort of the hardest thing to open up? Yeah, it's just weird. Like, I've never been in a car without someone in the driver's seat while it's driving, so just like, who's driving me right now? Still, Pratt says he's up for using the Waymo service more regularly. Whoever coded it to drive us, I guess they're doing a good job. So props to you guys in Waymo. This innovation has also expanded to another business experience that we all have, shopping, not just for efficiency, but also for the fun of it. Holly Kwan with Odyssey news station KCBS went to check out the latest innovation seen in stores. If you thought online shopping was easy, now comes the next step in brick and mortar commerce. With Amazon One, you can enter, identify, and pay with just your pop, whether it's getting to the gym. USC Professor Emeritus Gerard Medione is an Amazon VP and distinguished scientist who helped design the Palm reading technology. On a video posted by Amazon Science, he says, it's about solving the problem of the time suck. Go look for your credit card, or you need to fish for your phone and, you know, it creates friction. What we want to do here is give customers time back. You link your credit card to a scan of your palm and you're done. First thing is that you're in control. Each time you use Amazon One, you intentionally need to put your your hand over the device to scan your palm for it to work. So you get to decide exactly when and where to be recognized. In the last year, these palm readers have been in place in more than 500 Whole Foods stores, which enjoys a loyal customer base. But these Oakland shoppers aren't ready to hand over their hands. I've seen it for the past year and it's funny, I haven't been able to move myself towards using it. I do use the retina for the iPhone, right? And we do use the fingerprint for the iPhone and other things. But for some reason, I just haven't been able to entrust that with Amazon. I tried the Amazon stores where you can kind of go in, personally shopping and just walk out. Just walk out. It was fine, not great. If I had a question, I'm kind of, you know, stuck searching on my phone for, and yeah, and I look forward to seeing people in the grocery store, not just, you know, people who are also shopping, but people work at the grocery store and, you know, be able to kind of say hi. If we're going to introduce these technologies, they have to work really, really well. CBS tech analyst Ian Schur Amazon thing, it's an interesting idea. But I think part of why it hasn't caught on broadly. And by that, I mean outside of Amazon is that kind of discomfort with a new technology. You know, I've been using Apple Pay and Google Pay since they came out, essentially. And still, to this day, when I use my watch instead of my phone, people give me a look, but they're totally used to it with the phone. Cashless payment, driverless cars, it's a level of autonomy we still have to get used to. A great example I was taught many years ago was that, you know, one of the reasons that elevator companies had people standing in the elevators initially pushing the buttons and operating the elevators was not because they needed someone to be there to push the buttons. We all know how to push buttons, but it was to make people feel more comfortable with the idea that someone was in charge of the elevator, right? And that it was safe. And I think that the way we look at these things changes over time, but we have to be proven those trusts. Korsfield, just the latest MLB park to install, pay by Palm technology, but then where's the fun in being tossed to cold one from the vendor back at Whole Foods? Apple Pay on my phone is just as fast, but then now you're having Apple have access to all your credit cards and stuff. So it's like, where do you want to like, what do you want to give up, you know? What level of freedom do you want to have computers take over for you? I choose to come to the grocery store. We have Amazon for free this month for Whole Foods delivery for free. And I just want to, I don't know, there's something about being here, being around people. Touching the fruit. Touching the fruit, seeing the things that we like, spelling it. I don't know. It's, I just don't want to go to this point in my life where everything is done via phone and via digital. Everybody's using AI for what to make art, to make music, to do all this stuff, to take away from people's work and stuff. It's like, that's all things that humans should do. So why is it that we're having a computer takeaway that elements that create the creativity of people? At a certain point we have to ask, what society are we building? Are we chipping away at the foundations of civil society by lessening our interaction with each other, reducing the amount of time and meaningfulness of our connections? With art often comes science, or at least feels that way on the job hunt, whether you are looking or if you're the one hiring. Shannon Golan with Odyssey New Station KCBS went along for the journey. Searching for a new job can turn into a full-time gig. I've been there and it's top of mind for Keaton mering a third year law student at University of San Francisco's School of Law. It is a lot and it is kind of difficult to find jobs that are open or that I'm going to be qualified to get. Third year Brandon's been scouring for internship opportunities. Honestly, I'm spreading my self very thin across everything, just hoping something bites. But they both have a trick up their sleeve to try and get a leg up on the competition. Chat GPT, a generative artificial intelligence chat bot that when given instructions can provide a detailed response. I mostly use it for resume and cover letters. Brandon uses it to prepare for interviews. I put what I would say in and see like if it can help make it a little bit more professional instead of just me spewing about my life. And they're not alone. According to resume builder.com survey, almost two thirds of job seekers these days are getting hired after using resumes and cover letters written by chat GPT. We are strongly encouraging come students to use AI. Alex Hockman, director at USF's Career Center is now coaching students on how to use AI. I always say remind it what year you are, what school you go to, what your major is because AI knows a lot more about USF. Sometimes it seems like that I do. But he says because models like chat GPT aren't customized for the job hunt, they're not flawless tools. But it's pretty obvious sometimes. And I'm like, Hey, just out of curiosity, like, did you use AI for that cover letter? Like nothing against that at all. But it looks a little stiff, like it looks a little off, which is why AI developers are trying to improve the process. We've built a system that acts as a fail safe around the typical challenges or typical failure points of a general AI system. That's Puni, Coley CEO and founder of Careerflow AI, a Silicon Valley startup that built its own AI model customized for a more efficient job search. We estimate that we save our users at least 10 hours a week. Coley expects we'll continue to see this shift towards incorporating AI in the job hunt. The resume in the way we think about it today is going to become a relic of the past. And Hawkman is hopeful AI might be able to help level the playing field for his students and others. I do think AI will probably be more fair. I hope I don't come to regret those words. Local news can come at you fast. Want the latest on what's happening in your backyard? Download the free Odyssey app. Follow your local news station and you'll get alerts on the top stories making headlines in your city. You can stay in the know no matter what you're up to and be among the first to find out when news breaks. Plus keep tabs on weather and traffic so you're never caught off guard. To get started, download the Odyssey app. That's A-U-D-A-C-Y and follow your local news station. Creative Arts has been a major topic in the AI era. So David Welch with Odyssey news station KCBS sat down with an expert to make music with AI. The best way to describe how AI can generate music, making music using AI. That might seem like a daunting task. After all, the world of artificial intelligence is filled with cryptic names and code like descriptions. But fortunately for me, Professor Ben Kemp with the Berkeley School of Music has a lot of practice. And as his job title tells you, he's good at explaining. You go over here as a button that says Create. You click Create. Kemp and I are on a website called Suno.com. It advertises we can make songs about anything. So what kind of music are you into? I just listened to some recordings by Count Basie. The professor and I come up with prompts, a big band song about a late night party. And what happens at the late night party? It is a song, so someone's falling in love. We're old friends, we kindle, a love. Okay, so that's all that we had, that's all the work that we had to do. 15 seconds later, the song is born. Clearly, I'm not winning a Grammy. And Kemp shows me that some of my prompts needed refining. After another pass, it started to get closer. I'm curious as a songwriter and a musician and a composer, how do you feel about this? I feel all sorts of ways about this. AI among art is a polarizing topic. Across mediums, artists are split. On the one hand, there's the origin of creativity. In our case, it's a song, but is it a song if it's a mashup of previous ideas? Then there's the question of when creative license ends. Kemp says he and his classes wrestle with these ideas every day, but he says he always reminds his students that music is constantly innovating. Technology has played a pretty huge role in music and music creation. One of the kind of analogs for me is in the 80s, the sampler became widely available. Kemp is quick to point out that sampling and machine learning do have their differences, but he says it demonstrates the fundamental point. Human interaction is key to creation. He uses a different AI songwriting model to show me. I went into my digital audio workstation. That's the program that I make music in. And I booted up two of the quickest sounds that I could find. I just grabbed the first two sounds that I had and played something very, very simple and rushed. Barely listenable, not something I would put on a streaming service, but there are notes and rhythms in it. Kemp doesn't help the composition when he adds a voice that's more of a mumble than a melody, but when the machine gets a hold of all of it, it spits out this. I like what I hear. I don't want to hear you anymore. My ears are getting tired. You sound like my ex. What we have is far from where we started with Kemp's vocal track making the biggest transition. The machine did all of this and it was astonishingly fast, but Kemp reminds me that we started with a tune that was and is still pretty bad. It's a really great and really quick sketchpad for me to get the last thing that I just played you, the yacht rock version with the beautiful vocals on it. If I was with humans, that would be like two to four hours of work. The case for AI and art is often rooted in workflow. The machine saves precious time by taking away the tedium, something Kemp thinks benefits musicians, but he worries regulations will stand in the way. I hope that the AI industry and the music industry, they come together to find a way to allow this technology to be used ethically and responsibly moving forward rather than cut off and stopped. But as someone that makes his living teaching others how to create, he's just as concerned about artists getting paid for their work. If I don't want the model training on my songs, I should be able to choose. I don't want the model training on my songs. If the model does train on my songs and it generates music based on what it learned from me, then I should be entitled to some kind of compensation for that. But most important, he doesn't think anyone will listen, AI or not, unless the music is good, something he believes only comes with human intervention. We're continuing the conversation with David Welch and tech analyst Ben Behren tools in the AI space have created a lot of disruption where people are able to seemingly make their own solutions very fast and just continue moving. You look at this moment that was chat TPT of a couple years ago and we're in such a different place now and we'll be in such a different place than another year. So it's incredible the amount of innovation that's happening. Honestly, it's exciting. I know it freaks a lot of people out, but this is one of those very big and disruptive moments. Like I said, that we'll look back on in 10 years and see profound impacts from. Yeah, I think you touched on the word is disruptive and that's not a bad thing. I remember the Atari 2600 wasn't disruptive, but the fact that I could do it at my house was disruptive. Yes. I went into this story feeling scared of AI. I walk away from this story feeling excited about it. It's also changing how the health care industry operates using AI not only on the administrative side, but also with your doctor's decision making. Brett Burkhardt with Odyssey news station Casey Bias says medical science is taking a page from science fiction. Life is imitating art at Stanford health care. Star Trek predicted it decades ago with a medical scanner for their science fiction doctors. Star Trek part of the feature was the technology. We're really excited when the technology blends in the background. An important aspect of artificial intelligence in the medical field. When I learned we started with a pencil and paper. Dr. Christopher Sharpe is the chief medical information officer for digital solutions at Stanford health care. Basically trying to make sure that health care technology works for our clinicians and the care of their patients. He remembers a time when the best doctors were known for a key skill. How much can you memorize? That's what you need to know. That's the most important thing is which doctor is the smartest is the doctor that remembers the most of the textbook, but that carried a big burden. Because that was all written in paper, it was never seen again. It was just locked up and it was impossible to really learn from that. And now the textbook is infinite. It's absolutely impossible to understand and absorb all this knowledge. So AI provides an opportunity to be able to surface that knowledge where it makes sense for doctors. Dr. Sharpe says AI removes a barrier in the patient's hospital room in a way in which you may be able to relate. If your doctors turned with their back to you while they're typing in the computer to make sure that they got all the information, you're not going to be happy as a patient. That interaction is not very rich. It doesn't engender trust and really deep understanding. But AI is allowing doctors to remove that keyboard that has been a barrier to your care. The doctor now can be looking the patient right in the eye as they're talking about very complex care, knowing that behind them there's this tool capturing all the important parts and bringing those back into the data set later that is important. Therein lies the difference between ours being front and center and shows like Star Trek and life in this new world of AI in the background. Because it shows that actually technology can make the human interaction more possible instead of technology that gets in between the human interaction. Why on your back? The promise of better care using AI is not limited to the interactions between you and your doctor. It's quickly showing promise in patient imaging. A radiologist could see certain things on the x-ray highly reliably. But artificial intelligence might have its own way of looking at the x-ray. When you bring the two together, it helps to decrease that misrate. And Dr. Sharp is hopeful it will soon help diagnose and treat patients who have symptoms you can't find through a simple blood test. Could this help us to identify patients who have depression but they're not telling you? And while hospital systems like Stanford healthcare are carefully moving forward with AI technology as just one tool in the toolbox, they are equally exploring guardrails to keep patients safe. I'm not going to take your data and put it into chat GPT because I don't know who's going to look at that right? And if I name you and put down your diagnosis and say hey chat GPT what do you think? I'm completely exposing your data in a way that is absolutely not okay. It's the reason why Stanford healthcare is using its renowned group of health technology experts to build the next generation of care through AI decides to step the human condition. All of us tire. All of us miss things from time to time as humans. Being able to bring that extra support into that complex diagnostic decision making by a machine that never gets tired, never calls in sick, you know, and is always there to kind of back you up. That's something that we think is going to be incredibly powerful. So while Hollywood may be able to predict outlines of a future, Dr. Sharp will only venture to guess one thing. I think that none of us know where it's going to be in 10 years, but we know for sure it will be in probably everything we do. The big fear almost everyone has with AI is that it's coming for our jobs. So I have one final test. I have written three scripts based on an event in the news this last week. Two of them were written by AI. One of them yours truly. So I'm going to play all three and see if our AI experts can identify which is artificial intelligence and which was written by human intelligence. This store has been targeted by burglars four times in recent months. The thieves are using cars to smash through the doors or even attaching chains to rip them open. The owner has had enough. He's bought a van and parks it right in front of his store every night like a makeshift barricade. OK, that's number one. This is number two burglars are getting bolder. They're using cars like battering rams or using chains to yank the doors right off the hinges. Fearing for his livelihood, the owner has come up with a unique security measure. He's bought a van and parks it in front of his store every night blocking the entrance. And number three, like many businesses along High Street, high gift and mini market has been repeatedly broken into by criminals who often use vehicles to smash through front entrances. Now owners are trying to make things harder for the bad guys. They've installed curbside barriers and overnight they're parking a large van in front of the business. What do you think? Was it one, two, three? I should say two of them were AI. One of them was me. Hi. My name is sure Shetta and I'm an assistant professor of computer engineering at San Jose State. It's not easy to say. Usually people employ automated analysis tools to detect the mathematical properties of the text. I felt that two sounded most human and most like you. It was a little more colorful. My name is Neha and I'm an undergraduate student at San Jose State and I also work as a research assistant on AI for social good projects. Which did you think were the AI scripts and which were the human script? I would also say that the second one sounded more human but I could be wrong because AI can be manipulated and with prompt you can make it sound like that it's it's really human. So are you ready for the big reveal? I wrote number three. To be honest with you it was the worst of the three. The other two I thought were better than mine. So actually I was on the fence between two and three. I felt that the three had more elements kind of of the physical world like the barricades etc but it felt a little long. Interesting. What does this mean for a future where I as an English major wrote this script and I think the AI scripts were better than what I wrote. I think that you know our initial reaction to AI is one of wow this is so good. Is it better than what I'm doing but the personal experiences and kind of personal emotion and personal goals that we have when we speak bring a lot of value to what is being said and that is more important and I feel that AI has put actually more focus on what is human and what is important to us and so I think over time we're going to value humanity more and more. This Odyssey Conversation Artificial Revolution is a production of KCBS All News Radio in San Francisco produced by Michelle Fredragal and Dennis Foley. Be sure to download the free Odyssey app for more shows like this your favorite radio stations and so much more. For Odyssey and KCBS I'm Matt Viclar.