Chasing Giants with Don Higgins

Episode #229 - Final Thoughts on the Buck Named Babe and Cameras are Out!

Summary Don discusses his recent activities in scouting deer properties and the progress of his Ohio property. He also shares the emotional journey of hunting and harvesting a buck named Babe, and the impact it had on his perspective and relationships. Don and Terry also answer questions about feeding and baiting deer, and Don expresses his preference for gravity-fed feeders. In this part of the conversation, Don and Terry answer questions from listeners about antler development conditions, hunting strategies, and dealing with hunting neighbors. They discuss the varying growing conditions across different regions and emphasize the importance of playing the wind when hunting mature bucks. They also address the challenge of hunting with family members who have different hunting approaches and stress the importance of valuing relationships over deer. Additionally, they discuss the use of Miscanthus as a screen to block a neighbor's view and mention that

Keywords deer properties, scouting, Ohio property, emotional journey, relationships, feeding deer, baiting, gravity-fed feeders, antler development, hunting strategies, hunting neighbors, playing the wind, family hunting, Miscanthus, Real World Wildlife Products

Takeaways Scouting deer properties and setting up trail cameras is an important part of deer hunting preparation. The emotional journey of hunting and harvesting a buck can have a profound impact on a hunter's perspective and relationships. Gravity-fed feeders are preferred over automatic feeders for feeding deer, as they are more reliable and keep other animals away from the feed. Revolutionary advancements in gravity-fed feeders are on the horizon, which will improve feed capacity and reduce feed loss. Growing conditions for antler development vary across different regions. Playing the wind is crucial when hunting mature bucks. Valuing relationships with family members is more important than hunting success. Miscanthus can be used as a screen to block a neighbor's view. Real World Wildlife Products will not be going public.

Duration:: 1h 8m
Broadcast on:: 07 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Chasing Giants with Don Higgins and Terry Pier. Brought to you by Osceo Camo, nature's most lethal camel flies. Follow along as Don and Terry discussed the techniques, strategies, and dedication needed to harvest one of God's most amazing creations. World Class White Tails. - Well, welcome everyone to this week's Chasing Giants podcast of Don Higgins. I'm Terry Pier. We're brought to you by our friends at Osceo Gear. This episode's gonna air on July 7th. We just celebrated the 4th of July and as typical, Don, you were not celebrating with fireworks. You were out, out in trail camera and looking at farms. Talk about your week as you were on the road to looking at deer properties. - Yeah, I had a pretty eventful week, actually as far as the deer woods goes, 'cause I started earlier in the week, putting cameras up, I bet I got 25 cameras up so far. Just a few more to go. Then I went to Ohio with West Delks. And we worked on the 430 acre property over there that I bought with a couple business partners that we're gonna offer for sale here when we get it done. But man, that property's coming along looking really good. Probably the favorite one of all of them that we bought. I think this is number five that we bought in Ohio. Sold three of those so far. We got this one in a 75 acre track currently, but this 430, it has four food plots on it. Each plot is probably at least seven acres, between seven and 10 acres each. They're scattered out far enough that four guys could literally hunt this farm and not be in each other's way. If each guy just focused around the food plot, it'd be fantastic. In fact, we made the track into four tracks of about 100 acres each with each track, including a food plot. But we've also had a good bit of interest in some folks buying it as it is. And probably what we're gonna do is if somebody wants to buy it as it is, I guess it's available. We still don't want to come hunting season. We're gonna be hunting it. Then after season, we'll probably decide how we want to market it from that point on. But Austin Razor showed up and he planted two of the plots in soybeans. He's gonna come back and he's gonna plant two of the plots in the deadly dozen later this summer towards the end of August. Now we delivered four or 360 blinds, one of those for each plot. And there was already some blinds on the properties. I'm gonna guess there was probably about eight or 10 blinds already there. We moved some of those. I'm gonna be posting some pictures this coming week. We had a giant telehandler in there that looked while we was there. We actually had six guys there working at one time on different things. Had Austin planting. Us and I were delivering the 360 blinds to the locations where they're gonna be set up. Ron was there with two of his workers. One guy on a dozer and another guy on a giant telehandler. Moving blinds and doing some finishing work. We got a fantastic road system on the property to get to these different blinds. You don't realize how big 430 acres it is until you start working on it. But we've created some fantastic roads. We spent several thousand dollars just on culverts to put in on some of these roads. We got good drainage so the roads don't wash. You could drive a pickup truck down these roads and not scratch it. I mean, it's just wide open. But we've put in pretty much the finishing touches on that. Outside of Austin's going to come back and erect those three or four blinds. And then he's going to come back into our fall plots and spray the soybeans. So by time season rolls around that place, you don't be rocking. Road systems through Hill Country of Eastern Ohio is a little bit different than the flat pancakes of Illinois, isn't it? It's definitely different. Drainage is huge and you've got to have some checks and such along those roads that have slope to them where you can get the water off of them. So it don't just keep building up and you get to the bottom and you've got a tidal wave. But Ron's got a lot of experience in that. His operators are fantastic. So they got that down and you literally could drive a two-wheel drive pickup truck. And probably you could drive a car wherever you wanted to go on that property. But it's like you used to say a long time ago when you partner with people that each have individual skill sets and know what they're doing, you just stay out of their way and kind of turn them loose. And the people you're partnered with, this is the area of the country that they're used to putting this type of stuff in. This is what they do. Absolutely. And there's no shortcuts taken on this place. One thing that I've been really impressed with my partner, they got Ron and Kyle. We've each bring something unique to the whole group but nobody is looking to save a penny. This thing is being set up as if we were gonna own it for the rest of our lives and hunt it and whatever was needed. I mean, we had lime trucks in there the same day. On top of the six of us working, there was a, there'd been a guy hauling lime for two days. I think we put, I think the figure was 96 tons of lime on four plots. So that lime truck was going back and forth for two days, hauling lime fertilizer. We fertilized the plot, we took soil tests of these plots. We did it right. And I'm telling you what, somebody's gonna get a real gem when they buy this one. Well, so you're at least the start of your trail cameras are out, you made it to Ohio. Fourth of July for us was spent, we jumped in a truck yesterday, looked at the forecast of Illinois yesterday and you all got a good bit of rain yesterday morning. So we did not depart, we were gonna put trail cameras up in Eastern Illinois yesterday with my two buddies that hung over close to where I do. And we saw that rain coming through. How much rain did you end up getting? - Well, as typical, we missed the majority. We did get nine tents, which was very welcoming. We're certainly appreciative of that. But we could have used two or three times that much 'cause we had missed the previous three or four rains. I mean, totally missed them. We were dry, super dry. And we got nine tents and then last night we got a little bit more. I haven't looked at the rain gauge yet this morning, but we did get a little bit more. But we'll take every drop we can get at this point. We timed it perfect, we left home a little bit later than what we normally do when we do an up and back. It's about a three, when we're pulling a trailer, it's about a three hour and 15 minute drive. And then we can make a loop to all the different permission properties that we have up there. But we saw that forecast of that big cell coming from St. Louis up to Central Illinois and we stopped in Shelbyville, Indiana and ate breakfast and took our time. And we pulled into the farm right as the sprinkles were just ending. And we flew in three of us and hung, I believe 28 cameras on seven properties yesterday. And then made it back home. We pulled in the driveway at about 11 last night. So we had a full day of it, but a lot of those cameras, we're doing something a little bit different. I tried it some last year where we went ahead and hung some of my rock cameras up back in the funnels where I have my rope scrapes because we've built up some of these ammo cans with 12 volt like four wheeler batteries that will last the entire season. So I went ahead and took some of those cameras on back into timber so that I don't ever have to go back in there. They'll run a cell camera back in those areas for the rest of the year. So normally I don't hang that many cameras on field edges for summer inventory, but while we were there, I was really happy with how those external battery packs worked last year. So we took quite a few of those and Brandon took quite a few of those in on his places too. So yeah, three of us 28 cameras we were hauling. The disadvantage was we could not cut across the field on the quiet cat yesterday. All that rain that came through, we were not going to sink in that mud. So it took us a little bit longer, having to go around the big tracks of ag field on the edges, but we got it done. - Yeah, those quiet cats are handy this time of year getting around the edge of crop field. But when it's muddy, you know, that's a disaster waiting to happen. - Well, you're not driving anything through the field and you're not walking across it 'cause you'll sink in and get stuck. But yeah, zipping across the outside perimeter of those fields, it was a lifesaver. So yeah, it was a full day yesterday. Let's take a quick break. We want to talk about you picking up your deer head yesterday and then go over July schedule and got a couple other things to talk about. We got a six or seven questions to get through. So let's take a quick break, listen to our spot from ASEA for the week and we'll be right back. - ASEA gear has perfected one of the most innovative camo patterns on the market. The unique camo pattern designed to mimic the feather patterns of one of North America's greatest predators, the Great Horn Owl. Combined with intuitive features, superior comfort and ultra high quality fabrics give bow hunters the ultimate advantage. ASEA has outfitted over 10,000 bow hunters across the country with over 1,000 five star reviews. Visit asigear.com to check it out for yourself. Use code chasinggiants for 15% off. - All right, Don. Before we get into talking about you picking up your deer head, for those of you who want to stick with this next couple minutes, I'm going to put up a slide on the screen for Don to talk about one more time as we go through the month of July where he's going to be at. We're going to take about two minutes and have him read down through this. If you want to skip forward it, maybe about two minutes, it'll take him to get through this, but we want to make sure all those listening on the audio platforms know who to contact as we're going through this eastern leg of Don's seminar schedule. - Yeah, I've got seven stops coming up in July and I'm going to go through each of those. The first one is on July 18 at Milford Hills Hunt Club in Johnson Creek, Wisconsin. This is going to be a really fancy establishment the way fancier that I'm used to speaking at. I've been there before. I've actually consulted on a property for the owner of this Hunt Club. It's a Hunt Club where they turn loose birds, pheasants, quail, chuckers and things and they do that put-and-take of those game birds, but they've got a really fancy clubhouse. It's got a gun shop attached to it. It's got a bar and restaurant and it's not like what you would really think of as a bar. I mean, this is a fancy place and they're going to be serving prime rib as part of the meal that night. And this is a place that you could bring your wife or your significant other. And for an evening out, have a great meal and so-so entertainment with me as a speaker. But if you want to attend that event, I got a phone number for you and you need to call, it's 920-699-2249. And then the following week, our distributor out on the East Coast, Eastern Outdoors, has arranged six events at six of the dealers that they service out that way. Most are in New York, one's in Pennsylvania, but I'll be out there for six consecutive evenings, starting on Monday, July 22nd. I'll be in Panama, New York. If you want more information on that event, call 716-355-8841. The next evening, July 23rd, I'm going to be in Medina, New York. The number to call there, 585-409-1478. July 24th, I'm going to be at Pennian, New York. A number there to call 585-554-0200. On July 25th, I'm going to be in Cana, Jahari, New York 518-859-3310. On July 26th, I'm going to be in Walden, New York. The number to call is 516-322-4577. And then on July 27th, I believe that's a Saturday, I'm going to be in Richland, Pennsylvania. And the number to call there is 717-821-1891. And all those last ones I read off are going to have food. Each one's going to be different, so I'm not going to go through all the details, but to get to times, exact locations, whatever, call those phone numbers that I listed. And you can expect to get food right while you're there. You don't have to eat ahead of time. But they'll be serving food. A lot of them are going to give away door prizes and things like that. So I look forward to seeing you folks on the East Coast at one of those events. And if you're listening to this podcast, while you're driving or anything like that, this list, Janice has really covered my backside on this. And she got this list up on the Real World website for trade shows and seminars. So go to the Real World Wildlife website and this list is updated there with these contact numbers. And do us a favor, if you're planning on going, give them a heads up. 'Cause like Don said, they're planning on food and trying to prepare to make the best of it possible. So it helps those guys if they know how many people are coming. So do us a favor, even though we're not the ones planning the event, we ask that you be courteous to them and give them a heads up and give them a call ahead and let them know what your plans are. Well Don, we both got rain. That's an exciting thing. Actually, we got a thunderstorm going on right now. I hope we don't lose tower while we're trying to record. But we're really thankful for the rain. I know both of our plots really needed it. Farmers really needed it. I was shocked about how far behind the ag crops are through part of Indiana and Illinois. I guess it was so wet through some of the spring that they didn't get it in early, like normal. And then as soon as they did get it in, it turned dry. So I know the farmers are really thankful for it also. But you had a big event happen yesterday where you went and picked up babe at the taxidermist, our good friend, Justin Nice got it done. And you said, "Dum, look, Kyle Harmon was picking his buck up there too, but talk a little bit about picking up babe." Just all around a great story. We use the picture of him on your wall in your trophy room as the thumbnail for this episode. But a lot of emotions with this buck, a lot of story that went with it that was far beyond just the buck itself. And you picking it up from the taxidermist is kind of the final chapter. Yeah, you know, when I was chasing that buck, I really wasn't chasing behind him as a five year old and then decided to let him go season before last. I had high hopes that buck was gonna hit 200 inches 'cause he was in the 180s, had grown some sticker points that years a five year old that he had never had on his rack before. And when that season ended, I had plans that were totally different than the way it worked out. Going into last summer, I was really excited to see what the buck did. And he actually, it was a very tough growing season last year. And he actually lost a few inches. So he went, he ended up short on 181, but I found his sheds from the year before and he would have scored right at 186. So he lost about five inches. But you know, the real, I guess the real story, for those of you who have seen the video, is that before season open, about a month before season open, we learned that our oldest daughter Andrea had cancer. And while you talk about getting things, your perspective or your priorities in order in a hurry and news like that'll do it, and the deer really didn't matter that much at that point. And my grandsons were coming to hunt and I was gonna be fine with them shooting the buck. In fact, we tried to get them on the buck, but youth season is only three days there in early October and babe didn't show. So I didn't even hunt the deer until after my grandsons had a chance. I wanted them to have first crack at him and all they'd been going through at home with their mom and everything. So they hunted, did not get a shot at babe. And they seen deer on every hunt. They could have shot deer in a smaller box, but they were intent they was gonna go after the big guy. And he didn't cooperate. So, you know, once the youth season was over, I went after him and a couple of weeks later, I ended up shooting him, but he was featured on the cover of our land management guide last year, along with me and good friends, Al Foster and Joe Johnson. And I think the thing that this buck did was it really highlighted relationships with people. You know, right out of the gate, that buck showed me that, you know, how important my family was, because when Andrea came down with that cancer diagnosis, deer didn't mean anything to me. I mean, it didn't matter whatsoever. That buck could have scored 300 inches and I wouldn't have cared if he'd got hit on the road. That's the way I felt at that time. And then to let my grandsons have the first chance at it, I would have been absolutely tickled if one of those kids would have shot that deer. Had that didn't work out and then on the recovery, I had Kyle Harmon there, you know, filming as he has so many of my bucks and he takes a lot of my trophy pictures after the harvest. But then I had friends, Joe Johnson and Al Foster there on the recovery and actually it was Joe that ended up spotting the deer. We'd lost the blood trail and we was kind of on a search. We knew he was on the property somewhere. We was gonna find him and just might have taken all day, but we was gonna find him. But Joe ended up finding him and if you watch the video, if people have not seen the video, I strongly encourage you to watch that video. You're gonna see some real emotions come out in that video and I've had lots of people tell me they had tears in their eyes watching that video. But so, you know, it kind of stressed to me how important those friendships are that I made, you know, through whitetail deer hunting. And then yesterday, to top it all off, I went to pick this, the buck up at Taxidermist, Justin Nis. And Justin said that him and his wife made a huge life-changing decision recently. And he attributed a part of that to us and chasing John's podcast and listening to us. Him and his wife are leaving a week from Monday, tomorrow, you know, from when this podcast comes out. They're moving to Colorado. They've got three young kids, school-aged kids, his wife and school teacher. But they're loading up two trucks and driving, making a journey out to Montrose, Colorado, where they're gonna live. Neither one has a job. They do have a church that they're going to. His wife wants to become involved working with the church. I don't know if the church has got a school and she's gonna teach her what that plan is. Justin does not have a job, but they're gonna, and they got a super nice place right now. They got a new home. He's got his taxidermy shop there. Just a beautiful yard, big pond right there by the house. It's just an awesome place. And yet they're walking away from that, loading what they can get on two trucks and one trailer, heading to Colorado without a job to follow their hearts. They feel like God has put it on their hearts. They do have a church that they're gonna attend out there. You know, babe's one of the last deer that he's mounted here in Illinois before he takes off. You see, you know, that just driving home with that deer in the cabin, my truck with me, I also picked up my grandson's walker's deer. Walker shot his first watch last year and in the end and Justin mounted that too. So I picked that deer up as well and driving home, I got to think of the impact that you and I have had with this podcast and we get so many messages, emails, ex-messages, social media messages, whatever, from people that say that, you know, from the encouragement that they've gotten from this podcast, it's really opened their eyes and renewed their faith and they've started taking their family to church and got baptized. I know you went and baptized, Rick Perry up in Ohio. And these are relationships that happen because of this podcast. And there's one thing I'll always remember about babe, it's not gonna be even the hunt for that deer, how big he was or anything. It's gonna be how that deer kind of, and I don't think my priorities were out of line even before that, but boy, they sure made me focus on what's really important and that's the people that have come into my life because of deer hunting, but also my family, my friends that I've known forever as well as new friends, that deer was, that deer softened this old guy's heart to what that deer did. And I think my priorities were already in order, but boy that there, that last year, which that deer was a part of, it really changed my focus. - Well, I think it's a testament that when we allow God to use every aspect of our life for the glory of the kingdom, he can make something out of anything. And whether that's you playing golf or motorcycles or cars or any hobby or any passion that you have when you allow him to work through that activity or that event or just through that network of friends and people, let him be the focus and let him take the wheel. It's gonna bless you far beyond anything that you can ever do. And at the end of the day, the buck's still hanging on your wall, but the amount of lives that were indirectly impacted by it, I remember the conversation that when you and I were trying to plan for the 2024 and land management guides. And I called you and you were saying, I just don't know what we're gonna use for the cover. And I said, it's non-negotiable. We're using the picture of you and Alan Joe. And I said, I don't care if you get upset about it or not. That's the picture we're going to use because if anything says one thing about 2023 and four for us, it's about a renewed focus on our relationships of the body of Christ and our friendships with those who are important to us. And turkey season was just an extension of that with us all getting together and having a lot of fun for a couple of days. So just special moments in the close of a chapter of it and just awesome. And for those of you who don't know Justin, Don and I both consider him a personal friend. He is supported Lester's feet. He's donated stuff to Lester's feet for raffles in the past. But I know those around central Illinois know him and the quality of his taxidermy work, but he's been a very, very good friend of ours and our circle of friends. And we want nothing more than to lift him up in our prayers and support as they go on this journey to follow what they feel is what they're called to do. We wish them nothing but the best as they take on this next chapter of their life. You know, there's a saying among Christians, let go and let God. And I think this deer kind of drove that home and I already was pretty much that way anyway over some situations that you and I dealt with years ago. I'd learned to not fret over things that you can't control and just trust God. I mean, somebody does you wrong. You don't need to seek revenge. If you just take the high road and let God handle it, he'll do a much better job than you ever will. And that's why it's really been driven home to me over the past years. It's, you know, don't fret about things that are out of your control. You know, a lot of times, an example is just this past week. We were looking at another property to purchase in Ohio and we did a little bit of leg work looking at aerials and topo maps and such of what we could possibly do with the property and shoot before we could even get there to look at it, the property sold and didn't. And we wanted that property, you know, pretty bad 'cause it was gonna fit perfect for what we're doing. But I didn't even, I didn't lose one minute of sleep. I didn't even have a negative thought about it, you know, because the way I look at it is it could very well be that God is looking out for us by not buying that property. You know, who knows, there could be something happen on and around that property that would be nothing but a headache, the economy could tank where nobody's gonna be buying property or whatever. Just let it go, leave it in God's hands. And that's probably the thing that's really been driven home to me over the past year. When you got a child that's fighting cancer and there's not a thing you can do about it, you wish you could take it and deal with it yourself. You wish it was you, the one suffering. You're forced to put it in God's hands at that point. And I already was fairly good at that, but man, I've become a lot better at that over the past year, let go and let God. - All right, fantastic. Let's get the first question of the day up on the screen and let you start reading that and we'll get going. - Okay, the first one's from Casey Larson from Downing, Wisconsin. He says, "Hello, Don and Terry, I have two questions. "First, I am curious how Wes is coming along "on Higgins 2.0. "Also, I came up with a good nickname for him. "Wessie, the Loch Ness, Loch Ness." I better start over. "Wessie, the sock-mess monster. "Like Nessie, the Loch Ness monster, "or just sock-mess monster." My second question pertains to comment you made recently about bucks growing larger antlers when they are subjected to more heat and sunlight. You said both Mel and Smokey love the switchgrass and bet it in there constantly, which would represent, which would present more sunlight and heat than if they bet it in the timber. Have you noticed any difference in bucks antler-sized from the ones that prefer timber over switchgrass and what is the average inch difference between the two groups if you've kept track? - Well, Casey, those bucks did prefer the switchgrass once they moved on to my farm. They did not summer on my farm while they was growing their racks, so no, that did out and have any impact whatsoever. Because by the time they showed up and started betting on the switchgrass, their racks are already grown for the year. I do think the bucks prefer open country when they're growing their racks around here in this ag country, they'll spend most of their time out in corn, soybean fields, especially if there's a grass, waterway, or a weedy area around the edge of these fields. That's where they seem to tend to like during the summer when they're growing the racks. Open timber is also another good area. They don't like to be in the thick stuff, but has no impact or the switchgrass has had no impact on the antler growth of those two deer. To answer your question about Wes and two point is property, he calls Higgins 2.0, I actually spent two days with Wes. He went with me to Ohio and helped me on that Ohio property. It's coming along fantastic. In fact, we had some very deep discussions about that because he's owned that farm, I think, for three or four years now, and he has not hardly stepped foot in it to hunt. I mean, he's done all the habitat work, but he did that in the off-season, and then he totally stayed out, just letting that property get better and better, letting the local deer herd learn that that's a safe zone, and so they'll pile in there during daylight hours, and he's got that now. He's got a target buck on the farm. I think he said the buck is seven years old this year. Not a huge buck, but a big eight pointer. I don't know, Wes, it's open to hit 160, I believe. He's got some good up-and-comer bucks. He's starting to attract more deer and more bucks than he has in the past, but it's coming together real nice, and I don't know, we probably ought to have him on here one of these days to talk about it and kind of document that journey. But just like our consulting clients, the plan is working, but it didn't start with a flip of a switch. Now, there was immediate things that started to change, but Wes is able to hunt different places. He has a schedule that allows him to take time and hunt different areas, so he was able to let it go and just sit back and watch, but it's a true testament that the plan will work if you give it the time and not pressure it, and you expect too much to quit, you're gonna be disappointed. But yeah, he's really excited when I talk to him, and we have a group chat where he sends us pictures and talks about different bucks and stuff. You can tell he's starting to get really fired up about it, so I'm really happy for him. - One of the conversations that he and I had on our trip was the amount of work that it takes to take a property, get it up to par or whatever it needs to be done and then maintain it. Just maintaining it is a lot of work as well, and he noted that there's very, very few people, whether they see us on social media or whatever, that realize exactly how much time and effort and energy and even money that we put into these deer and trying to grow these giants. So it's a dedication. I mean, you gotta be dedicated to make it happen. - Yeah, especially when he's trying to compress it in the very few short years, not to say you didn't work constantly on your farm, but a lot of the things that he's doing in a three-year span, you and I probably spaced over a longer period of time on our places, so. - Well, we saved him years on the learning curve because we'd do things and make mistakes and then go back and redo him where he knew right out of the gate, well, he needed to be done and he did it and he did it right the first time, and I certainly didn't do it right the first time. There's a lot of mistakes I made in the process, and what he's done in three years, I promise you it took me at least 20 to get to that point. - Well, we hope that the listeners of the podcast are getting a little bit of that too, so. - All right, next question is gonna be up on the screen for you. - This one comes from Ryan Richardson from Owensboro, Kentucky. Says, "Love the podcast, keep up the great work. "Is states that allow feeding and baiting "what style feeders do you prefer? "Gravity versus automatic feeders." Well, Ryan, without a doubt, I prefer gravity fed feeders. I don't like the electronics of spin feeders or whatever. I just think that's something to go wrong. Most of them don't hold the amount of feed they need to, but they throw that feed out on the ground where coons, turkeys, squirrels, everything else is competing with the deer for it. Those gravity fed feeders, and there's a lot of different brands of good gravity fed feeders. That's what we put up this week on our Ohio property. That's what we've used on all our properties there in Ohio, is gravity fed. You can keep the coons out of those feeders, some of them, the better ones, a whole lot easier. Without a doubt, I would go the gravity fed route on any feeder that I was gonna utilize for deer. - I'm gonna give everybody a little inside scoop here. A business partner of mine is designed a feeder that I'm going to be using prototype, I believe number two or number three this year, that's going to revolutionize gravity feed feeders in the hunting industry. And he could bring this thing to market right now, but he wants to do it right. And we're going to prototype this thing across a couple different states that allow feeding through the season this year. And I talked to him almost a couple times a week. And I'm really, really excited about this. I've been talking with him since the first day we decided to, he decided to go after this and I'm excited for him and his family to take on this venture. And I'm gonna do everything I can to help him be successful with it. But by 2025 marked my words, there will be a feeder on the market that I will be more than willing to share on this podcast to help my friend out that will revolutionize the market and in gravity feeders. So I'll bring that to you. I'm not going to release or show any pictures until then because somebody will just steal it. So, but there's something coming folks, I promise you that it's gonna be awesome. - Yeah, I've seen pictures of the prototype and met the gentleman you're working with. And I wish nothing but the best for him. Can you share at least the capacity of this feeder? How many pounds of feed it's gonna hold? - Somewhere between I think 12 and 1400 pounds. - Yeah, it's a big, that's fantastic. - It's a big boy. - Yeah, it needs to be at least a thousand pounds. You need to be able to put a half a ton in there. - Yeah, it's a big boy. - So, awesome. - Well, we look forward to that. - Yeah, it's gonna revolutionize this. So, yeah, Don and I want nothing more than to see this successful for the people that are involved. You know, we talk about stuff all the time where it's more about the people than the product, but in this case, I'm telling you guys, this is gonna be something that's going to revolutionize how people use feed and save you money when it comes to a feed loss. So, yeah, I can't wait for that. But he would kill me if I said any more than what I am and his face is probably beat red right now. So, we'll leave it at that. So, his wife is laughing, but his face is probably beat red. So, we'll put up questions. We'll put up question number three. This one comes from Stephen Lincoln from Columbia, South Carolina. Says, "Don and Terry, I'm a frequent listener, "but this is my first email. "Thanks for your straight shooting and faithfulness "in the way you conduct your sales and your podcast." He must not have listened to some of the earlier ones. (laughing) A month or so ago, you dedicated an episode to the optimal growing conditions for antler development and the impact it might have for the 2024 hunting season. However, on a recent family vacation to Michigan, we drove home through Southern Michigan, Ohio and Kentucky. I was surprised to see how dry the growing conditions were. Much of the corn I saw was roped up and suffering. And while your corn and that neck of the woods is far behind our crop in South Carolina, it appeared to be suffering mightily. I am a crop insurance agent and pay attention to such things wherever I am. At what point do you begin to readjust your thinking about optimal antler development conditions? Do you believe that enough damage is done to fall back into a more normal antler development pattern or are you still encouraged? Thanks in advance for the response and all you do within the hunting community. Well, Stephen, that is a great question. What I really got to stress more than anything is how much different the conditions have been from one region to another. I know up in like Minnesota, Wisconsin, I think even Michigan, they have gotten a lot of rain. In fact, West Elk showed me a picture of one of his clients' food plots in South Dakota and it was totally underwater. You usually don't see flooding in South Dakota in June or first of July. It usually dries can be but through that northern plains and the upper Midwest region, they have gotten a lot of rain. Here in Illinois, if you go 20 minutes north of me, it's way different and 20 minutes south of me. It's way different than right here at my house. We have missed a lot of rains. I was so glad to see the one we got on the 4th of July because we had missed about the previous three or four that had went either north or south. That was where split went both directions. We were in a pocket that was super, super dry. Out there in Ohio on the farm, we was on working a couple of days ago, super dry. They did get an inch of rain. We planted those, or so Austin planted those soybeans. I think it was Wednesday, Wednesday night, we got an inch of rain on them and it was needed. And then there was forecast for another half inch last night. And I hope they got that too. But it's the conditions vary so much, even just a short distance away. But to get back to your question, you know, across most of the whitetails range, we had a super mild winter. We had an early spring and we had sufficient rains during the spring. So what happened was those bucks got off to a great start. I think in most cases, the bucks are still doing fantastic or the growing conditions are still really good, a better than average anyway. There are little pockets like where I'm at that it did back off some, but we got that rain. And you know, once those bucks are off to a start and they're growing, they're gonna be able to find some nutrient dense foods to keep that growth going. It would take a really, really severe drought for them to stop growing. - Well, the soybeans are therefore to six inches, they're still eating the soybeans. It's when there isn't anything. - Yeah, most of the soybeans in my area now are a foot tall or better. And there's some alfalfa field. You know, that alfalfa is super deep rooted. Alfalfa roots are going six feet or deeper into the ground. And that's why it stays green even, you know, during the dry period of the year. The deer, once they got off to that good start, it's gonna take something really, really, really major for them to back off. With that said, I have no doubt there are small regions, there are areas in the country where they're not doing as they haven't had as good a growing season as others. So very valid observation, but we just got to recognize that things vary so greatly from one area to another. - Yep. - Yeah, I think we're, at least we talked about this on the drive home last night because, you know, we saw some fields in Indiana and Eastern Illinois where, you know, they didn't, they weren't able to get crops in the ground till really late, then it turned dry. And the soybeans are literally three, four inches tall, but then again, they're still providing a food source. So, you know, it's what are the bucks gonna do? Are they gonna quit growing earlier? Are they really gonna stay a month ahead and keep growing? So we're excited to see what comes on the cell cameras, that's for sure. - Well, no, soon enough, in the next 30 days, we're gonna have a really good idea. - Yeah. - All right, let's put the next one up on the board. - This one comes from Koi Phillips from Apple River, Illinois. It says, "Dawn and Terry, I greatly appreciate all the information you've provided me from all the podcasts. I do believe it has made me a better hunter over the years." With that being said, onto the question, is it possible to teach an old dog new tricks? My father and I have a 200 acre property exclusively to ourselves on this property. I have shot some very nice, 160 to 170 class bucks, but want to take it to the next level. My father has only shot one big buck due to pure luck. I would say over the past five years, I have creased and set up strategically for every win, but he will not hunt the win, no matter what, thus educating the more mature bucks. Well, if he and I are on the same page as far as harvesting mature whitetails, but we are not on the same page for hunting the win, how would you go about trying to get hunting the win to stick with him? - Well, Koi, you might have the most difficult question of this podcast, I could take this question and go in half a dozen different ways with it. You probably should get your dad to start listening to Chasing Giant's podcast every week. That'd be a good starting point. Without exception, the best whitetail hunters on the planet, and I'm not talking about celebrity hunters, although there's some very good celebrity hunters. I'm just talking about the very best whitetail hunters on the planet, I promise you every one of them knows the win direction every time they go to the woods. The wind is, to a mature buck, the wind, his nose, and the wind is as critical to him as our eyesight is to us. And I don't know if you can explain that to your dad or not, that he needs to think of a mature bucks nose the way he would think of his own eyes. If he was to shut his eyes and try to go through the day, he wouldn't make it five minutes before he ran into something and got hurt or fell on his face or whatever. He's not going to give up his eyesight any more than a mature buck is going to give up the wind. There's just no two ways about it. Now how, I think you get that. I said that so you can let him listen to this podcast. Now I'm going to say something that he's going to like and you might not like. You need to cherish every hunt when your dad, one day he's not going to be there. And one day you're probably going to wish that he was sitting in a tree stand with the wind blowing in the wrong direction just because he would be there with you. So, you know, I get it that you want him to do things right. It would frustrate me too if I was in your position. You know, the fact that your dad is going to the woods with you is something really special. And don't let him ruin a stand or two mess up that relationship. Keep your priorities in order. And, you know, if your dad never comes around he's still going to leave you. If he never comes around as far as playing the wind he's still going to leave you with a lot of good memories that you guys make in the deer wood. So, you know, hopefully you can get him to listen to this podcast and not just this particular one but, you know, every week. And if he listens every week he's going to hear Terry and I talk about playing the wind on a pretty consistent basis. And maybe the light bulb will go off. But the other thing that struck with me about your question was you say that you've shot several 160, 170 inch bucks and you want to take it to the next level. You know what keeps a lot of deer hunters from reaching the ultimate level is they get so good that they can't change what they're doing. And you've, I don't know, it sounds like you become pretty proficient at killing 160, 170 inch bucks for you to take it to the next level is going to require one of the hardest things you've probably ever had to do in the deer woods and that is let those bucks live. Those bucks are the bucks that are going to be next year's 180, 190, maybe 200 inch on a small percentage of them. But those are the bucks and you didn't mention age. So, you know, I don't know if those bucks are four years old or six years old or 10 years old but those 160, 170 inch bucks that are four and five years old, those are the ones that are just a year or two away from being real giants. And so for you, if you want to take the next step, you're going to have to start letting those bucks go. So, you know, there's plenty of work here for you and your dad, your dad needs to learn to play the wind a little bit, you need to let those bucks go. And if you guys can both do those things, you should start, both of you should start shooting a bigger box. - You and I had a rule a long time ago that there should never be a deer that ruins a relationship. It doesn't matter how big it is. And that's whether it's a friend or a friend or a family member, so it's a rule that's very important to me. - I've never seen anyone do a better job of that than you. I know some situations you've been in in the past and you always valued the relationship more than you valued the deer. - Yep. - And then that's one of the things I really admire about you. - There never can be a deer on the wall that can be more important than a relationship. That's not having your priorities in place. All right. - Yep, especially when it's your old man. Especially when it's your own. - Folks, great point. Next one comes from Ryan Riggins from Macomb, Illinois. It says, "Don and Terry, thank you both for your integrity and unfiltered faith and conviction in what's right. It's refreshing every week. Don, I pray for full recovery for Andrea and that this journey brings your family closer to each other and furthers your relationship with Jesus. Terry, I lift your mother as well as your recent unexpected career transition. I recently had a similar curve ball in my career and here you talk about it while an unfortunate situation has been an encouragement that I have a brother in Christ navigating the same thing and doing it well. My question is for both of you. What have you found is the best approach to an introductory conversation with new hunting neighbors regarding everything from herd management and property management to specific conduct issues like sitting fence lines and calling first before tracking a deer onto the other's property? I prefer a cooperative friendly approach in order to have a positive relationship but also I don't want to show too many cards. I really appreciate you guys. Ryan. Terry's laughing because he has no idea which way I'm going with this and he knows I could take it about three different ways too. But so I have a very unique situation on my property. I don't have woods butting up to me where I've got to worry about people sitting on the fence line with only one exception. I've got extremely good neighbors. They understand what I'm doing. They understand how I make my living. They do not cause me any problems whatsoever. The one exception was a neighbor that has five acres. That includes his house and his yard. He does not deer hunt but he was letting anybody that wanted to deer hunt his five acres. Basically because he had so many deer that were coming out of my sanctuary onto his property. I tried working with the guy. I ended up having to build a fence between him and I wanted to solve that issue. You know, I don't have hard feelings toward this gentleman. I wish him nothing but the best. But as far as a deer hunting neighbor, he was not the best deer hunting neighbor. My other neighbors have been fantastic. I don't have the issues that a lot of people have. And I think that's why I've been able to tell you, I know without exception. Without a doubt, that is why my property has been able to produce the bucks it has. There's people that can come up with all kinds of excuses for why Don has success but I'm telling you, it's the layout of this property. I can allow bucks to live longer than most properties. Most landowners on other properties will ever be able to. And I'm not talking my properties in the top 1%. I'm talking my properties in the top 1/10 of 1% of all properties in North America because of its isolation factor, just how it lays out. That was not my design. That's not something I planned. It's just something that fell in my lap. I actually seen it as a detriment when I started to try to build this deer property. I thought I was too far from other cover, but I didn't have enough cover on my place, so I created more. But I never thought that I would ever get even close to where I am today. The layout of my property is unique, so I don't have to deal with these neighbor issues like you do. But I do think it's a good topic for discussion. - Peace. - I had a situation recently where a person in the hunting industry was doing some badmouthing of me, and I couldn't understand it because I had always made positive comments about them, stood up for them and they were being bashed. And I reached out to them privately and asked what the problem was. And I was told the problem was that I had consulted on a neighbor's property to their property and I had advised the neighbor to build a fence and it ruined this guy's hunting. Well, I did some research through my client list and I cannot come up with anybody close to this guy. I have no idea what he's talking about, but apparently the fence ruined this relationship or this guy's property, he thinks it did, and ruined the relationship with his neighbor. I never set out to do such things. It's, we've talked about this before, when we're hired to look at a property, the client is paying us to give them the best advice that we know on how to achieve certain goals. And those goals vary from client to client, but when a client wants to kill on the biggest bucks possible, we've got to get him to grow the biggest bucks possible. We've got to keep the young bucks alive for him to shoot older mature deer and that may require a fence. And that is probably the fastest way to ruin a relationship with a neighbor, but I would always advise before you go that route that you go talk to the neighbor and give him a chance to get on board with the program. You know, I think honest conversation, at least it clears your conscience. If you have to do something extreme like build a fence, at least having a conversation to start with, seeing if you can get on the same page with that neighbor is the first step, just about every time. Now, I've run into a situation in Wisconsin last year with one client where he had a neighbor that there was just no doubt a fence needed to be built. I mean, the guy was coming onto his property even farming and I don't mean coming on by a few feet. I mean, coming onto his property by 100 yards, a farm part of a field that he once farmed before this gentleman bought the farm. He just, he wasn't about to give it up. He just kept coming and farming it anyway. In a situation like that, yeah, what are you gonna do? You gotta build a fence and that's what he's doing. I mean, I'd have already done it by now, but you know, every situation, every person's different. What you can get away with with one neighbor, you won't with the other, but it needs to start with a conversation to see where you stand. It might be that that neighbor views you the same way you view him. He may view you as a hurdle to achieving his goals. He may shoot that nice four-year-old because he thinks if you don't, or if he doesn't, you will. And you're thinking the same thing. Well, if both of you are on the same page letting it go, it's good for all parties involved. So you just gotta start with an honest conversation. That doesn't mean you lay all your cards out on the table. You build that relationship and you don't have to send a guy your trail camera pictures, you know, to start with, build that relationship first, build that trust, get to know him as a neighbor and a friend. And then that's not always gonna work. I'll be the first to say that, but that's at least how you should start. After that, you see where it goes, but you take the high road right out of the gate and see what you can do as a neighbor, see if you can build a good relationship. And if you can't, that's when you go to other measures. - I agree. I mean, I'm the guy that had to hire an attorney 'cause of loose cattle. But you know, you tried for years to get it taken care of. And I haven't even told you this yet. Over the winter, I walked the property lines just to make sure because there is a group of out-of-state people that came in and leased a property to my northwest and wanted to make sure there weren't any stands on the property line. While as I got around to the southwest corner, I noticed and you gotta realize, you know, where we turkey hunt and how steep the property line is the creek bottom and the bottom. And there is a lighter stand on the neighbors where the base of the lighter stand is on the property line facing me. So two big hillsides coming down like this and I'm pretty convinced you couldn't get into the lighter stand without trespassing, but the lighter stand is on a tree on their property. But the only shot you would have is the whole hillside right below my sanctuary. You know, so if the right wind came, I'm sure there's bucks running that. But the problem is, is they're probably hunting it with the wrong wind blow and they're sent right up in my sanctuary. So, you know, all I can do is about 15 feet or more than that, probably about 10 yards away from that tree facing that tree stand. There is now a cell camera pointed towards that lighter stand and a sign that says, "No shooting across property lines." And the minute that they crawl up in that tree stand, I'm going to have it on video mode. And so they'll get the picture really quick. I mean, yeah, I could take the tree stand down. I could cut the tree down, but, you know, the end of the day, it's on their property. I really can't do anything. I can't build a fence and a holler with, you know, down the creek bottom. So, we'll just monitor the situation and go. If it wasn't for other people, it'd be easy, right? Well, that's the biggest challenge in deer hunting today. It's not the deer, although, you know, they're smart and they are a challenge, but the biggest challenge is dealing with people. Just when you think you, you know, you find a giant buck and start chasing him, you're probably with trail cameras today. You're not the only one that knows about that deer. And he's going to attract a lot of attention and the bigger the deer, the crazier people get. And I'm probably as guilty as anybody. And the problem that I get-- - That I get possessive of. - And the problem I get with it is, is if they would back up the hill, and of course they're gun hunting, if they would back up the hill and put that same stand 60 yards up the hill and be able to shoot the whole creek bottom, they would probably kill more deer because they wouldn't have deer above them. But instead, they think that if they get down on that creek bottom, they're going to take advantage of all the work they know that I've done. So that's the problem. It's when the other people feel that they're going to take the shortcut and take advantage of what you've done. And in turn, they're putting themselves in a worse situation by being below the deer. There's never a place that they're going to have deer below them. The deer in every situation is going to be above them. But during the rut with gun season, they're probably going to get something to shoot at. - Well, the first thing that came to my mind whenever you described that was the land, we just talked about the land in the previous question. The guy goes down on the bottom. He doesn't know anything about playing the land. - But he's going to blow it right in my sanctuary. So I'm the one that's going to get hurt by it. He's either going to shoot something or he's going to blow up every deer back there. He's going to know something's wrong. So it is what it is, but... All right, let's see. We got, I believe, one more that we'll put up here. All right, this one comes from Eric Bowles from St. Albans, Westford, Union. So I appreciate the blunt and straightforwardness of your all's podcast. And I've listened to every one of them. Even though our hunting properties differ drastically, I'm still able to pick up many new ideas and really enjoy your knowledge of farming and food plots. Two questions. First, I haven't heard you all talk about Giant Mescanthus as a possible screen to block a neighbor's view of a home or would it work for that? I have one neighbor that refuses to take care of their property and wondered if this would make an attractive screen and separate our yards. Secondly, I want to know if real-world wildlife products will ever go public. I am by no means well off, but have an extra 10 bucks. I'd like to invest and get in on the ground floor. Thanks, Eric. Well, Eric, I don't ever see us being going public. I don't, if we get that big, I just don't see us getting that base where that's an option. But I appreciate your confidence in the company. We tried to have the best customer service and the best products and just appreciate folks like you that recognize that. As far as your Mescanthus question, yeah, you know that Mescanthus has been used for a lot of different things like that. People buying it to plant around their yard, around their farm buildings to screen roads. I know in North Carolina, a lot of it gets planted around hog buildings to block the view. Swampled. Yeah, it's all kinds of things that's been used as a screen so it would absolutely work in your situation. But one of the reasons I brought your question up is I wanted to talk about Mescanthus. Last Sunday at church, they go to church with Jay Gingrich, Gingrich Tree Farm. And last Sunday, Jay and I had a conversation about Mescanthus. And I honestly think that some Mescanthus rhizomes, when you plant them, grow roots the first year, but they don't pop out of the ground. And Jay agreed with me that we've seen too many plantings where you thought the thing was a failure with just a small percentage of plants coming out of the ground. And yet two or three years down the road, you got a solid wall. And I wanted to throw that out for the listeners because I've got a planting that I did this year that looks terrible. I probably got no better than 5% of those rhizomes coming out of the ground right now. I haven't been to look at them for a week or so, but last I looked. And I'm talking two months after I planted it, I got 5% sticking. And it was a great site. There was no competition. It was a perfect site. The rhizomes I know were in fantastic condition. There was not a problem with the rhizomes, there was not a problem with the site, not no weed competition. And yet I've only got about 5% of them sticking out of the ground. But I am confident that in two years, I'm gonna have a wall in Mescanthus just based on past experience. So I want everybody to hear this. I really believe that there is some rhizomes that will just put root on the first year and get rooted good before they ever put any top growth on. And it really has only come to me in the last couple of weeks that I started having that idea and I presented it to Jay. And Jay agreed with me 100%. And Jay's traveling around the country, planning this stuff, tens of thousands of rhizomes every year, probably 50 to 100,000 rhizomes every year he's planning, maybe even more than that, I don't know. I think it is more than that actually because he's buying the bulk sacks of 10,000 and he's buying a bunch of them. So he's planting over 100,000 rhizomes a year, lots of experience and lots of different planning sites and conditions. And he's agreeing with me. We just think that there's a lot of those rhizomes that are not gonna show any growth for a year. And I would have never guessed that possible if I hadn't seen the examples on my own farm. - Great tidbit, be patient. We get that question a lot this time of year is I planted my rhizomes, they're not coming up, it's a failure, what are you gonna do about it? Our answer is gonna be, please wait, be patient. See what it's like next year. Like switchgrass, that root is doing its job under the ground and getting that firm foundation to grow one. So gotta have patience with these products. It's not like a food plot. - I bet we get some comments on this video. People saying the same thing, they thought their mosquitoes was a failure, was very poor germination and now they got a wall. - Yeah. - All right, so what's on the docket for the rest of the weekend? It's Friday morning, we get Saturday, Sunday left open for a holiday weekend. You got any more cameras you're gonna put out? - I do, I don't know that I'm gonna get it this weekend. Send some cameras in to Reconyx for some updates and they're being shipped back to me. Just got a notification this morning that they were shipped out this morning. So hopefully next week I'll get those cameras in and they got just a handful to get out and I'll be good for the summer. Or at least I say that, but I always think of something like if I got cameras sitting around the house, I'm always thinking work and I put these things too. So I'll probably put more out but I got my youngest daughter Alicia here for the weekend with my youngest grandson, Bowen. So I've been enjoying time with them. They arrived yesterday and they're gonna stay through Oklahoma after church on Sunday. So probably spend a lot of time playing with that little guy. Take him on his first four-wheeler ride yesterday. We went looking for deer. - Oh, okay. - So. - Start him out early. - Yep. - I see a bunch of tractor rides too in the future. So of course I'm betting his daddy gives him tractor rides. Anyway, his daddy spends a lot of time. - He's been on tractor before with his dad. Yeah, no doubt about it. But he got his first four-wheeler ride looking for deer last night. - Well, we're gonna see how much it rains here today in Kentucky. I still haven't sprayed yet. So we need to dry out a little bit and then I'm gonna spray but try to get some more cameras out here in Kentucky or this weekend. But hope everybody has a great 4th of July weekend. We'll be back in the next couple of weeks. Reminder, we're gonna have Brian Kraft from Midwest Land Group on the show here in the next couple of weeks. Get your real estate questions in so we can have a good segment with Brian. We're gonna talk deer hunting with that guy because him and his son have absolutely killed some giants out in Kansas. But I wanna talk some real estate with him too. He has built a very, very good business and treats customers and does business the right way. So I wanna pick his brain about that. So if you have questions, make sure you submit those to us and we'll get those. We still are hoping to have batteries released on the real world website this coming week but we will announce it from the tallest building and shout it from the loudest speaker when it happens folks. As soon as we know, you will know as soon as they arrive, we'll have it. We have everything waiting staged to put it on the website. So I know you guys are anxious. We appreciate it and we're getting so many questions of when they're going to be there. As soon as they're here, we will tell you. - We've actually got two shipments coming. The other one won't be here until later in the summer, probably the end of August. I can tell you this first shipment is not gonna last on. We did not anticipate the interest that we've had. We had someone call this week and wants to buy 4,000 batteries as soon as they land. - Two, I had to go to Sam's and buy mine this week. - So, yep. - I, it's in our best interest to have these in stock also, so. - We'll let you know as soon as we know, as soon as we have them in hand. - We'll talk to you later next week. Happy, happy for the July weekend. - God bless everyone, have a great week. - Chasing Giants have been brought to you by Oseo Camo by a farm real estate company. 360 hunting blinds, Victory Chevrolet, Real World Wildlife Products, Matthews Archery, Novik's Tree Stales, Gingrich Tree Farm, WildlifeFarming.com, Quiet Cat and Vortex Optics. Thanks for listening and tune in next week for another episode of Chasing Giants. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [MUSIC PLAYING]