(upbeat music) - Hey, what's going on? This is the Saturday on Top Podcast, I'm Kanno Cara. Well, I need to address something off the top that I admittedly overlooked last pod when we were recapping all of these SEC bowl games. And by the time you look up and you realize what other people are talking about, you realize that you have forgotten a topic that's pretty pertinent to the very subject matter that we discuss twice a week. True or false, the SEC is dead. One more to enter, no, false. Yes, I would agree. True to what you said, false to what I said, which is the SEC is dead. By the way, Chris Budden's gonna join us, talk a bunch of different things, recapping 2024, and then we're gonna end with latter of the week. And obviously we're gonna be talking about the Cotton Bowl, previewing all things, Texas and Ohio State. But I saw this really come out after the Georgia loss to Notre Dame and with the Big Ten having two teams in the semi-finals. And it kind of hit upon seeing everybody talking about this narrative, this discussion, that we are a Texas loss to Ohio State away from this being the first time since 2004, 2005, that the SEC would have consecutive years without a team playing in the national championship. So significant, right? So significant. If Ohio State takes care of business, that will be a takeaway more so than ever because it'll be a Northern national title game in consecutive years. We're all the times that we've looked at that map of the teams that have won the national championship and how very few of them in the 21st century have been out of this specific region of the country, that'll be very significant, okay? It absolutely will. And I think a lot of this, this discussion, at least what I've seen over the course of the past few days, is because the SEC dominance crowd that was so loud after the first round playoff games was obviously put in its place after all of those losses, not just the Tennessee loss, but also Bama in South Carolina and SEC Champ, Georgia losing by double digits to Notre Dame, to Notre Dame. - And to be clear, they did this to themselves 'cause we're not talking about Clay Travis, we're talking about Lane Kiffin and like the actual members of the team. So it's not just some talking head that everyone was mad at, I do understand that. - Yeah, and I mean, even Herb Street. - Yeah. - Got into the muck with this. And Herb Street doesn't always bang that drum, but he did in this case. And I think what is very clear and something that, no matter how big of an SEC home or you might be, you are not flexing right now. There is no SEC flex to be had. Even if Texas wins a national championship, there will not be this SEC chant because obviously it's its first year in the SEC and it took a team coming over from the big 12 to be able to give the SEC that continuation of dominance, so to speak. I don't think there would be that same feel if unless we were talking about a team like Georgia or a team like Alabama or LSU that came through and really did the SEC's bidding. - I'll say too, I think there's like a twisted version of SEC fans in the national media. I think that they think we all get memos and we all sit around and root for each other's teams and we're all in one page all the time. I root for teams that are entertaining and I root for teams that benefit my team. That's just as a fan, that's what I do, right? So we talk about how excited am I? I'm excited about LSU's portal class, you know what I'm saying? I'm obviously not a huge Notre Dame guy for my own agendas, so I wanted Georgia to win that game. But it's so funny because so many media people are being like, well, all these SEC people, it must be disappointed. And it's like, you think Alabama was rooted for Tennessee? No, I don't think so either. - I think there are some that would like to feel better about that, but in that moment, are they, I don't know, and it's tough because you can go down a lot of different roads with that. And we don't, like let's be honest here. We're talking about fine-bound, we're talking about our guys, Peter Berners, we're talking about people that get into these discussions on a bigger stage than we do here. I'll admit that, I'm perfectly fine with that. And whenever someone who is seemingly down the middle on these subjects comes out and goes to the SEC side like Herb Street does, that is seen, or even Sean McDonough and how very vocal he was against the Big Ten in the midst of that first round game with Notre Dame and Indiana, that stuff gets brought to the surface and then that is seen as groupthink for a lot of different people. And I think that was definitely the case. And that was probably always going to be the case this year with the 12 team playoff and all the different narratives that one can have going in or coming away from it. But call me crazy. - Well, I think history is repeating itself a bit, or at least I'm more of the belief that history is repeating itself that then we are seeing a new chapter in history and that we are heading down a totally different road. Go back to 2014. - I knew where you were going with this, buddy. - The entire conversation when Bama loses to Ohio State is the SEC, it's rain is over. It might be, and I've talked about this before, so I don't want to repeat myself too much. It might be the reason I got this job because there was this fear that the SEC was going to be falling off and the Big Ten was taking over. And that is why my former boss, Drew Roberts, wanted to start Saturday tradition. You saw all the things that were popping up. I've talked about this before. But when it was consecutive years without an SEC team winning at all, which included the first year of the new playoff format, it was the games were finally being decided on the field. And that was bad news for the SEC. - Of course. What's Ohio State's record against the SEC in those games again? - It depends if we're including the Arkansas 2010 Sugar Bowl, which Ohio State got stripped. It's not good, it's not good. You know it's not good. It improved with the Tennessee win, but it's not good. The SEC after that point, after 2014, put a team in the title game each of the next eight years with six national titles by three different programs, and everyone forgot about that storyline until right just now, okay? And the funny thing is, the SEC even had a little bit of a right to flex going into the postseason, maybe not in ways that we traditionally talk about because of how many SEC teams felt like underperformed at the top. But if you want to just look at the raw numbers of, and Bear-Felica pointed this out going, I think it was going into the conference championships or it was right after whatever it was. There were, the hay was in the barn with this discussion, but the SEC went 13 and seven against the core four in the regular season, while the Big Ten was six to nine, the Big 12 was five and eight, and the ACC was nine and 17. So what does all that mean? What is, what should the actual takeaway be if we can't get on board with the SEC is dead? And if we are both sitting here going, that is absolutely false. It means that we probably shouldn't assume that the SEC will fail to adapt in this new era with talent being spread out more because of NIL. We can agree that one thing is true and also agree that there is probably still a way in which the SEC will benefit because it just always has during this last 20 years that we're approaching now with the way that the SEC has controlled college football, or if the SEC really is failing to adapt, we're at least going to need a three year sample size of SEC teams not getting to the title game and looking like they get on this stage and then they get embarrassed. We need, give me three years of that, okay? Two years still a little bit too small, especially when we've already seen how it played out the last time this happened. And I'm not trying to move goalposts, okay? So I might hear that and think, I'm just trying to move goalposts for the SEC. No, no, I think the SEC this entire year, where again, multiple losses for every SEC team going into the postseason, I just thought it had kind of a 2014 feel to it. And that's what we're talking about, that's it. This is kind of history repeating itself. And maybe that means Ohio State's going to be another SEC team in the semifinal in route to a title and the Big Ten will flex extremely loud and understandably so, get it while you can and do whatever you can to make sure that people are giving your conference respect to totally understand if the SEC does it, the ACC doesn't when Clemson wins the national title or Florida State or whomever. But I wouldn't write the SEC eulogy just yet. And I feel like we can have some sort of a middle ground between the SEC's dead versus the SEC chance right now. I lean towards that. Now, if we get an Ohio State Penn State National Championship, you're going to hear all of this over again, okay? And there will be that discussion. - Yeah, tap it a couple of times in the SEC, happy with LSU Alabama, happy with Georgia Alabama, welcome. - Yeah, so who knows? And if you want to retroactively account Washington as a Big Ten team. - Sure, nice to be right there. - Man out there, yeah sure, why not? But probably just, I just wanted to address that at the top because I know that it's been everywhere and I guess I kind of came away from the pod that we recorded the other day, feeling a little bit weird that I didn't get a chance to weigh in on that after seeing how out there that opinion was on people with a national platform. - Yeah, I mean, I think that... Remember what McSaven retired? And I said that I referenced the Kobe Bryant commercial. And I said, you know, they don't hate the good ones. They hate the great ones. And the way that kind of the national media, and I don't want to cheapen this because as I said, as you said, it is, you know, the SEC Network, it is Lane Kiffin, it is Nick Saban on the game, they said it is... - Saban's a big part of this too, that's a good point. - Yeah, Saban's been part of this. And like, you know me, I try to leave Saban alone because he's whooped my team so many times that just sounds like me being a loser when I talk about him, but he has since 2019, you know, been given the spot to campaign for his team. And just as Ryan Day did also in 2019 after beating, I think Wisconsin and the Big Ten championship game was on TV going, "We need to be number one." That's your job as a college football coach. Okay, it's your job to sunshine pump your team and your rivals and your conference 'cause you get payouts there. And you get to say, "Well, we lost to the team "that won the national championship in there, "not so bad, right?" - Unless you're Notre Dame and then you get to keep all 14 million and you don't have to distribute it to anyone and, you know, that's a little bit different than everybody else in the conference. But you're exactly right, that is kind of the point. Yeah, and I mean, again, good example is Notre Dame, right? And I'm not gonna get into the religious aspect of Notre Dame, but, you know, basically at Ivy League school, private school, no conference, standalone TV deal. When people are acting like this is a plucky underdog versus Georgia, that's all I need to know. It's that you guys are not speaking at a factual basis, you're speaking out of emotions. And just as always, you know, we as a society, now we don't just call people names. We try to find them oral high ground. And I think that Southerners, historically, have been a group of people, that it was just fine to jump on in public. And that's why a lot of the tweets have had, you know, the undercurrent of, oh, you're paying labor. Now the SEC is struggling. Hey, man, I just wanna add one thing to that. So the SEC just added the University of Texas at Austin. If your takeaway is that the SEC is cooked because they don't have any money, I think that the SEC is gonna be just fine. I think that I would encourage, and I think that Kirby Smart and then Kalen DeBore, and certainly Brian Kelly, as he already had, would love the national discourse to be how the SEC is washed, and that they're poor, and that they can't compete with Ohio State, which, mind you, as you said, there was no dominant team this year. - Up until the playoff. Oregon was considered the dominant team, the least flawed team, and then they get into the playoff and Ohio State shows them. - Smacks them. - Hey, yeah. - Okay, so that's exactly where I was going. Oregon was a dominant team. They beat Ohio State in the regular season. Okay, they go one and done in the playoff. - Where's the Big Ten indictment there? - When your team was supposed to win the national time point. - When you're looking at Alabama losing Nick Saban, when you're looking at an Ole Miss team that is Ole Miss, when you're looking at a Georgia team with a backup quarterback who has Mike Bobo and could not figure out their offense all year. When you're looking at a Texas team that Quinn Ewer's arm has been barbecue chicken since they he badly beat Michigan. A team that beat Ohio State, right? So, but that was not even seen as a good winback band. And now suddenly Michigan is this crazy good rich team that we can't, oh, they got Bryce Underwood and like two transfers and now they're all rich. I get it. So point being like, all I have to say about this is what I've said over and over and over again. And this is a credit to my good friends at Arkansas. My aunt is a huge Arkansas fan. I made the point to one of my friends who was a big SEC hater. And I said, here's the, this is years ago. I've said it on this podcast before. When you go to Arkansas and, you know, Chad Morris is there or, you know, they're struggling under Pittman, those vans are locked in. My joke is they're still throwing batteries. It's like, that's the biggest thing they got going on at Arkansas. - Arkansas fans will bleep that for you. That was, well, you should again, a little bit of a warning. You can't just say Chad Morris out there without any sort of, come on, like, let's. - And this is respect to Arkansas fans 'cause they showed up for those games. And they were locked in and they read the articles and they were all about the coaching search and it pay off for them. And they had lots of opinions about same fit. And then we encouraged that. And I talked to those people and they loved the sport, okay? You, as an Indiana grad, know that how many people became Indiana football fans this year because it was a basketball school. And I look up and down the roster of the Big Ten and you could say, oh, USC, great brand, okay? They went to and over to the SEC. I can't say anything about USC, but they were not a playoff team. UCLA is a basketball school. Oregon, if we wanna make this whole case about how, okay, it's all about money. It's all about Phil Knight. This is a team with like a 65,000 seed arena that their whole pitch is we have cool jerseys and money and had that go when they snapped the ball against Ohio State. You know, so there's not this team there. Ohio State, we said in the preseason that Ohio State was gonna be the huge favorite to win after all the money they spent, the huge roster, good? - I, no, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt on that. 'Cause I think it's, I think you might, you're heading in the exact direction that I think is ultimately going to be the takeaway of this season of maybe nobody gets the right to flex except the team that spent $20 million on its roster and it doesn't have to be this conference-wide regional dynamics are shifting. Maybe just the team that spent crazy amount of money that is really well coached when it's not facing Michigan that had the most talent play the best football at a time when it mattered and it got into the playoff because of the expanded format and that's, that ends up being the big takeaway of the season. It doesn't have to, we don't always have to get in these conversations, even though it feels like we need to examine these dynamics and that's one of those things where if I'm sitting around with my buddies, discussing, like, and I was talking about this with Bobby Carpenter earlier who obviously like for those who know Bobby, big Ohio State guy and does a really good job on serious talking about all things nationals. Well, but one of the things he asked me was like, Connor, all right, then like why did this year play out the way that it did for the SEC? And why does, why does it then feel like a letdown? And if there's a simple answer that we don't need to get into regional dynamics and NIL and coaches, portal, all these different things, quarterback play was just disappointing for the teams that looked like they were gonna have really good quarterback play and it just didn't end up materializing and that sort of way, that's the boring answer to all of this. And nobody really wants to get into. But if we go back and look at all those preseason and Heisman lists and take a look at Jalen Milrow and Carson Beck and Quinn Ewers and even Jackson Dart who obviously had still had a really solid year but obviously his moments down the stretch in those losses were what proved to be costly for Ole Miss. If we want to just look at it from that standpoint and go, yeah, that actually ended up just being kind of a disappointing year at quarterback in the SEC and that's probably what the conference's undoing was. Ultimately, that's a much easier way to answer this than I don't know, man. I think NIL has really changed the way that these conference dynamics have been able to form. - Yeah, I fully agree, and if the takeaway is about money and it's about all this different stuff, what it is is it's boring because it takes that people had saved up since the Bush administration and they've been waiting for these takes up. Oh, I mean, well, the second one. I don't think you can count the Tennessee title. It's a little bit too late. I think you gotta go, Alabama had to go on. - Tennessee title is Clinton, we're talking? - Yeah, exactly, I'm talking about W. I'm talking about when the SEC really started putting, or we had the two Florida titles, the two LSU titles, Auburn was in there, Alabama was in there. So people have been sitting on this stuff about how they hate the South, and remember, Kevin Warren was the king of this, the way they handled COVID, and they've been trying to hate the South this whole time, and cool, that's boring. Okay, we've already tried that. We've already tried the SEC as dead. We're sure Alabama died for 17 years. The Lord knows I did. But I say that to say, do you want me to be sad that Dick Saban's not Alabama anymore? Do you want me to shed a tear, that Alabama is not smacking my team, that they're losing the Vanderbilt? - Because that's a big part of this. - Here's what's so funny to me, is that these people, when they think that we're these low information voters, for lack of a better word, that we all just get together in our little SEC huddles, or discord servers, or maybe that's too advanced for us, and we say, oh, Alabama's bad now, this is so scary and sad for us. That's more recruits for my team, okay? So I'll say it that way, to your point. Yeah, the real answer is so much more interesting than that. The real answer is about how old this paid for this big roster, it didn't go the way they thought, what are they gonna do now? Alabama did some things right. They have Ryan Williams, no one's gone, what are they gonna do now? There are so many fascinating individualized story lines in the SEC as to why each team is here, okay? Mike Dinbrock, moving from LSU, where he won a Heisman to Nerdy, guess what? That guy's really smart, okay? I owe him an apology, that's who I owe an apology, is Mike Dinbrock, because that guy can run the bank. - I'll file that away, well, I'll file that away. - He can run the bank football. And that's what LSU couldn't do this year, and that's why they lost weird games. And so point being, you know, I think that if we want to have an interesting conversation, like guys like me and you would go back and forth with people and say, okay, well, here's what happened. People say what happened in Alabama. I could tell you, I won't make a lot of jokes, 'cause it's interesting stuff to me. But if we want to sit there and be like, oh, we're sure, I just want to wrap up where I started. Please tell that to Kirby Smart. Please tell that to Nick Saban. Please tell that to Steve Sarkeesian, that his team is too poor to win a national title. 'Cause I look at this big 10, and I'm not gonna go through this line by line, but like, okay, Michigan just won a national title. I'm not sure they could do it again, but they have money, we're gonna include them. Oh, I'll stay, cool. Oregon's never won a national title. Until they actually show up at some point, I'm not gonna pretend like this is a national title. Cool, they appear and get smoked, good for them. Outside of that, USC, that's been since before the SEC run, since they were really a contender. Again, they beat my team, but that's so did lots of people. So point being, I look up and down this conference that has been perfectly built to spread this narrative that they are the one conference, and I'm like, how many of you guys are really going in there and scrapping with Texas and LSU and Alabama, and not to keep the score, but that's what we want to do. We want to hold Ole Miss and South Carolina up to the standards of who, Purdue. So that's kind of my thing is like, these are groups of passionate fan bases that don't like losing, and they don't like being made fun of. And I think if you check on Fine Bomb, day one was a little bit, I'm making fun of this other team, and day two was, all right, guys, this doesn't have anything to do with me and Auburn fan that South Carolina lost to Illinois. Why are you mad at me? Yeah, it just gets too generalized, with some of this stuff, and that's a little bit of a frustrating thing. It's something I try to avoid, but it can be very difficult, and it will be very difficult if it plays out with these two Big Ten teams getting to the national championship, and all of a sudden that resurfaces, and then people that don't actually watch this that closely, they all of a sudden have takeaways that are a bit too broad, and obviously that's, you know, that's what they're allowed to do with the national stage. So one from a phone guy yesterday said, I can't believe anyone didn't think that Bonix was an FL quarterback. It's like, all right, guys, like, what were you watching? So yeah, like I said, Penn State can really prove me wrong. Penn State can get in there and play with a respectable or winner title, that's a team that can move from one column to the other, but I'm interested by this. I really am, it's a great time to follow the sport, that's it. I've got a Penn State take coming up with Chris Budden that I'll save for later, but just be ready for it, 'cause your boy could potentially be eating some girl. All right, let's talk about the other semi-final game. Let's talk about the Cotton Bowl, Texas, and Ohio State. Ohio State's a six-point favorite. The Overunder will, six and a half catches, 145 receiving yards and two touchdowns for Jeremiah Smith. That guy's scary. That's what he's averaging in the playoffs so far. Yeah, that's pretty good. Tennessee looking back, hey, did a better job on him than Oregon did, so Tennessee at least wasn't leaving him uncovered at different points of that game, granted single coverage on Julio Jones 2.0. Probably not the best strategy, we know that now. That's gonna be the challenge for Texas. You've got perhaps the best secondary, the second best, a top three secondary, pretty much any metric you wanna look at, and if you are our guy, PK, you might be thinking to yourself, wait a minute, I've got the Jim Thorpe Award winner in Jadae Baron. If you're a PK, you're thinking, thank God, I'd ever see it, I'd have to see this Scataboo guy again. Done with him. Scataboo, Scataboo, not Scataboo, sorry. We respect camp, Scataboo. - I'm just telling my mom when I call people Boo like that, I don't know. - Who would you rather face? Camp Scataboo or Jeremiah Smith? - And that's really the answer. They had to do one, then the other. Let's say, I don't wanna say I'd rather face either of those dudes, because- - I don't want them to hear me say that. - I know, right? They'll just prove me wrong. Jeremiah Smith's just gonna come over to my house and just boss me and Camp Scataboo's gonna run right through me as I'm walking on my driveway. I don't want anybody to do that. But it's a difficult thing, I think, to balance if you are a defensive coordinator and you've had 15 games of your team mostly looking really, really good in a one specific area. And if you look at it from just the Baron perspective, like this is a guy who, nobody hit more than 43 receiving yards against him in a game all year. He doesn't have a touchdown allowed in coverage this year. Why wouldn't I trust my guy to go up against Jeremiah Smith and win that battle? Why wouldn't I trust my guy? I'll say this. I love Judea Baron. Great player, he has been one of the big reasons why Texas has been so steady on the defensive side of the ball this year. But that's a losing battle. If Texas think it's gonna work with a 5'11" corner against that 6'3", 215", 220 pound freshman and we shouldn't even be calling him a freshman anymore. - Okay, the grown man. - He is a grown man in every way. And Texas has said a lot of the right things to lead you to believe that it is acknowledging the grown man-ness of Jeremiah Smith. Tennessee thought it could do the single coverage thing. Jeremiah Smith admitted afterwards, he thought it was a joke. He's saying it in my head, I'm laughing. Bull touchdowns that he scored in that game were against corners in single coverage wherein Will Howard didn't have a real decision to make. And I was the one saying, I would like to see how Jamal McCoy matches up against Jeremiah Smith. I think that's gonna be an awesome matchup. They're gonna have these great battles. Jeremiah Smith won that. Okay, he did. And it wasn't Jamal McCoy, all night for Tennessee. Ricky Gibson had some tough moments in that one. But you get what I'm saying, that guy saw man coverage way too much and he feasted. That is why you just don't make that decision if you're Texas. You want to avoid the situations in which Will Howard can look at his formation pre-snap, look at what the defense is doing and go, Oh, I got Jeremiah Smith in single coverage. That's my read. I don't have to worry about anything else. If you play man, he will burn you. That's just a fact. And to be fair, Oregon played zone and then just forgot that Smith existed at different points of that game. That touchdown that he had early in the second quarter where I don't know what Oregon safeties were doing in that spot, but way too much separation. I mean, there were plays that he made later in that game where he had no separation whatsoever and he's catching passes as he's twisting out of bounds and you're thinking to yourself, who is this alien? So it obviously did not work out well to leave him that much alone as Oregon did at different points in that game. And if you're a Tennessee fan and you're a little bit angry at listening to this, just know you did a little bit better than Oregon. So hey, everyone team in America, okay? There's your moral victory. That's all you need. It's a huge matchup for Texas because it's extremely unique. Texas struggled with another 6-3 freshman receiver, TJ Moore, that Clemson game. He's the only guy that Texas faced this year that hit 100 receiving yards. And Michael Taft was asked about if there's any sort of comp for Jeremiah Smith. He wouldn't even say TJ Moore, okay? He wouldn't go there. And I don't really blame him. Instead, he said there's no way that this guy is 18 years old with that size. And it's true, he's 19. He turned 19 the day before the Michigan game. So, I mean, now we really have to respect him now that he's a 19-year-old. But here's the real question, are you taking him or Ryan Williams? Oh, I'm taking Jeremiah Smith. - Okay. - 'Cause we thought that was like the best of your freshman receiver could ever do. And I'm looking at Smith going, wow. - Even Bama fans, even you would have to admit at this point, you would take Jeremiah Smith. Over the course of the next two years, and I mean no disrespect to Ryan Williams, he might enter this next season considered one of the best five players in college football. Jeremiah Smith will be one, okay? I feel very confident saying that barring injury, he has been that dude. Now, you go back and you're like, all right, well, he's put up ridiculous numbers, first ever thousand-yard true freshman receiver that Ohio State has had. In that lineage of receivers, that's unbelievably impressive. - 'Cause that means you're beating grown men. - Yes. - You were forward five stars, even get on the field. - Definitely. But at the same time, you look back at the year that he had, and it's easy to forget going into that Tennessee game. He was coming off of his two worst output games of the year. And Michigan in a weird way, Michigan has this day in which he is so quiet. And oddly enough, Michigan being without Will Johnson, that game might have helped them because they didn't look at that, at least I don't think so, Wink Martindale didn't look at that matchup and go, well, I've got one guy that can cover him and that'll be fine. No, Michigan turned it into kind of an all hands, on deck effort, and then Jeremiah Smith gets two second half targets of that game. His last target came with 25 minutes left in that game. When I said, this is a fireable offense what Ryan Day did after that game, it was stuff like that, okay? You just can't have that happen. - Hey, that's who started meeting the calls with Wink Martindale 'cause he saw both of those freshmen in a row, and he had like, nobody, like Will Johnson was out the first game, and then half the team did declared, and he was like, no worries. Yep, did a whale of a job. And I won't pretend to understand the X's and O's, there are people in this business that can break that down, what Michigan did, what Wink Martindale did, and consecutive matchups against those freshmen aliens. But clearly, whatever Will Howard was seeing at the line of scrimmage during those rare instances that Chip Kelly and Ryan Day decided to let 'em throw the football, it wasn't screaming feet for, okay? And it's probably unrealistic to think that Texas will have that same sort of effect, even if Will Howard is feeling good about what he sees at the line of scrimmage. I think either way, he's going to force feed Jeremiah Smith targets, you just have to. There is no world though that we're gonna recap this pod, we're gonna do the recap pod on Sunday, and we're gonna look at each other and go, wow. Ohio State didn't target Jeremiah Smith in the final 25 minutes of that game. Even if Smith is in the injury tent, Will Howard is throwing his way in the final 25 minutes. Hey, maybe we'll get two feet and bounce, maybe we'll get one foot about. Could you make a play? He never know. He reported eligible, right? Coach, he's holding onto his hamstring that's falling off of his leg right now. I don't care. Jeremiah's gonna make a play. He's gonna hurt him, he's always open. What's tomorrow Chase saying? Yep. Yeah, you get it. The goal for Texas will be to disguise those looks at the line of scrimmage, and ideally their pass-rushers will do what neither Tennessee nor Oregon could do, and that is sack Will Howard. Easier said than done. The last time that he really got pressured was by Abdul Carter, the Penn State star. Since that game, which was the first Saturday in November, Ohio State Penn State, just two sacks taken for Will Howard. Can Colin Simmons, can he be what Abdul Carter was? I think that's possible, I wouldn't rule that out. Last six games that he's played, the true freshman for Texas, five sacks, two, four spumbles and a pick. He's really important because if Smith is getting separation, you need those instances in which we watch the replay on whatever the all 22 view is, and we say, wow, he had Jeremiah Smith, but he was running for his life, and he couldn't quite see that level of the defense, and that's why Texas was able to survive that possession, whatever the case may be. Trey Moore, he's really the guy that I think has to get going for Texas, and for a while, he was quiet. The UTSA transfer came over, put up huge, huge numbers at UTSA, and too many instances in the first half of the season where you're like, didn't they? Trey Moore, he's healthy, he's out there, right? And then latter half of the season, he's been a different player, he was in Sam Levitt's ear in the Peach Bowl. He didn't, actually, if you look back at the numbers too, didn't have a sack until the final six games, and he's now got five and a half just in that stretch alone. I think that battle is going to have a massive say in whether Ohio State continues to look like a world beater. That's what this comes down to. They have reached this peak, this peak that we thought in the preseason, as you mentioned, we thought it was possible, but how did we think it was going to look? Well, it's gonna be the ground attack, it's just getting chunks of yards at will, and they're gonna be pushing people around, and yeah, they're gonna hit on the big pass place, but since they have really opened up that passing game in the playoff, it has taken Ohio State to new heights. And I think it's fair to call them a juggernaut at this point after they jumped out to a 21 or nothing lead against Tennessee, they jumped out to a 34 to nothing lead against Oregon. They have come out swinging on both sides of the ball and reminded the world $20 million roster. Might not have the answers against Michigan. Everyone else seems to work out, seems to be a very solid strategy if you could get it. Does that defense have the answer for coin-uwers? Defense that also had a lot of money that went into it. Revenge game for coin-uwers? Not really, not gonna go there. As he said on this very show a couple of weeks ago, he left Ohio State to get back to his resources. Take that for what it is. This is a legacy for him. - Oh, we're poor. - Right, yeah, Texas is poor. - But we're poor. - Yeah, they got the laws changed, so a gentleman could transfer, what are they gonna do? - Everybody looks at Austin and goes, you know what, they just, I don't think they have it. I don't think they're really gonna struggle in this new era. This is a legacy game for coin-uwers. And I know, I feel like I've said that at a few different points, but you're in Texas. Beevo's gonna be there presumably not able to run over any beloved mascots. If you ran over Brutus, I'd have a very different reaction than him running over, running over Uka. So we'll cross that bridge if and when we come to it, but you're facing the toughest defense you've ever faced, I think. You're finally an underdog too. Get this. It's the first time all year that Texas has been an underdog. - Well, now hold on. You're talking about Texas are facing the toughest defense they've faced? - I'm sorry, yes. - What's in the first game? We're all super saiyan five. I don't know how Georgia did that in the first game. - You're right, you're right. Okay, let me back up. You're exactly right. I'm saying the toughest from a standpoint of how we feel about you going in. - Going in, yeah. - We were not feeling that way about Georgia going in. Georgia obviously showed up and it's basically impossible to replicate what Georgia did that night. Thanks for cleaning that up. You're exactly right. Georgia fans, I mean, no disrespect. Your defense was an all-world unit that night. 100% fair. I mean coming into a game and how we feel about you week to week, I think Ohio State would probably check that box. Even Bama in 23, I don't think was getting the same type of defensive respect that this Ohio State defense is getting, okay? But think about it, and I wonder about this with youers. - Dude, Oregon looked like children against them. Dylan Gabriel, who was like, we talked about a Heisman contender, one of the best quarterbacks in America. The way that they were getting thrown sideways, like big brother attack, I've never seen the team rank that high. Like look, that small in a game. I'm so serious, this late in the season, I was like, oh, yeah. - Ohio State has earned that right, okay? And that's a big part of this as well, as much as we're gonna spend, you know, we spent time talking about the Jeremiah Smith dynamic and all that, but what they have been able to do up front is obviously very, very noteworthy and how you're able to win these games convincingly against respected units like what they face so far. Texas is an underdog for the first time since last year's Alabama game. 27 consecutive games as a favorite. That streak very likely coming to an end unless we see some massive line shift, in which case we're gonna have a different conversation about what happened. Will Howard's gotten pneumonia and he can't be on the field. Jeremiah Smith got snowed in and he couldn't make it to Austin, which by the way, or not to Austin, but to Dallas Fort Worth. That's another weird element that all of a sudden is gonna be discussed. Ohio State is going to be traveling to Dallas, but it's potentially snowing in Dallas. What? What's going on here? - How do these trends work? Is this gonna be the most expensive college football kick it? 'Cause these are huge indexes, big market, local market, like, yeah. - Gotta be. Ohio State fans have been saving up for this one too. A little bit, maybe, maybe a little bit, but I agree. I think it's going to be an extremely expensive ticket to be able to get. But think about that from Texas' standpoint, being a favorite in 27 consecutive games, and you only lost four of those games, three of which were the top five teams, two to Georgia, one to Washington, and the semi-final last year. And then the other to the non-top five team was last year's Oklahoma game. And you know how that played out for youers. This is an opportunity to show the world that you have that gear. You have that top tier, great college football quarterback of the playoff era type game in you. Because I feel like I banged the drum for youers more than most at this point, because it hasn't looked as pretty as we thought it would this year. But I would tend to say it's fair to point out, he didn't change a lot of minds by beating Clemson and Arizona State. I think that fourth and 13 will forever be remembered. I don't know how much of the average college football fan based on what I've seen looked at that play and thought, youers is a different guy than I thought. - Okay. - Not me. - Not you. I know exactly, exactly. - No, no, yeah, we joked about it. I know I said it at the thick, but it's like, "Ugh, this usually doesn't at the beginning, it gets worse at the end." But like, this is kind of who he is. It's funny because he ended with, I joked about this with the Arizona State media, he ended with like the most average Quinn Ewers that line, and then Scataboo ended with like the most average Scataboo set line that I canceled out. - Yeah, and youers ends up putting up bigger numbers than I think probably he was trending towards in the middle of the second half of that one. - They were sitting on the ball for most of that game. That's the thing. He looked like he wasn't playing well at all. - Yeah. But now is your chance of your Quinn Ewers to show that against an elite Ohio State defense, which surrendered just six passing touchdowns in 14 games, four of those came against Oregon, by the way. This is your chance to show you belong. You belong in those conversations. You deserve to be remembered in the same way that Vince Young and Colt McCoy were. Maybe there's nothing he can do because of how unbelievably influential those guys were at the time that they came to Texas and the way that they were able to kind of leave their legacies and it probably helps Colt McCoy's case that Bama ultimately runs away with a national championship after he gets hurt. I still think Bama wins that game and even if he's on the field. Take that for, you know, whatever your narrative is, I guess, but this is a huge opportunity for yours. I think that Ohio State defense, we need to point out the strengths that they have shown even as they were getting skewered by the national media. Before that Oregon rematch, Ohio State's last passing touchdown allowed was in the first Oregon game, October 12th. - Oh, yeah. - Man, I was wrong about that. - Oh, it's a two and a half month stretch. That's, Caleb Downs and that secondary, they will absolutely make you pay. It can't be for yours, a game full of those predetermined decisions unless that predetermined decision is you realize that you've got Matthew Golden in single coverage or he's got a cushion and you're thinking, this guy can go make a play. I will make up yours mind for him in that situation. I'll call it out for my TV at home. It's not gonna be full Leo DiCaprio from the couch, but it's gonna be Matthew Golden single coverage that there's your read, there's your guy. Go attack of that. Safety is peaking in the backfield. Matthew Golden sneak in behind them. There's your read, go do that. Any path to a Texas victory includes Matthew Golden playing ridiculously well, continuing to play ridiculously well. And it would also help if Isaiah Bond looked healthier than he did in the Peach Bowl when he got 22 steps, but zero catches and one de-cleater on that U-ers pick. - Really bad hit, man. - Oh, that was bad. - Yeah. - I don't think this-- - You just gotta tell him to run straight and call Caleb Downs names. I think if he would have knocked the picks here. - Caleb. - Look over here. - Yeah, I mean, a lot of battles, I'm sure, that those two had in practice at Alabama. You know, two guys that left that program. And there were two of the biggest losses for that Alabama team this past year looking back on it. But yeah, just being a decoy would be helpful. - 'Cause I'm providing another-- - 'Cause that's what I'm saying. I know I always talk about the picks, but that's what Caleb Downs is made for. Especially like, gold, as we talked about, plays like it takes 12, but in reality, it's six feet tall. So when you throw the ball a little bit high, you gotta got a Caleb Downs back there. You can't go go gadget that. So yeah, it's gonna be fun. - Yeah, I don't think this is a situation where Sark would prefer to have viewers throwing it 30 times. I don't think Ohio State with what it's doing well defensively would mind if you were through it that many times, but the way that we've seen the emergence of Jack Sawyer and Cody Simon and J.T., I'm gonna cross the pronunciation of this, wait for it. Tui Moloau. - Tui Moloau. - Tui Moloauau. I think I actually got it right the first time. And then I felt, I didn't feel as good saying it as I feel when I say ooh, we uncle LA or yama la ava? Like, we just didn't feel quite as crisp with it, but they've been playing unbelievably well after they kind of had some quiet moments during the regular season. Ideally for Texas, you're gonna find some sort of run game. You need to be able to keep those guys from printing their ears back. That's obvious. Texas couldn't find the run game against Arizona State. Takeaway, Dylan Gabriel, Ohio State held the ducks to 20 rushing yards on 16 carries. Yeah, they were really, really good. That's the biggest concern if you're a Texas fan. Run play goes nowhere, incomplete on second down. It's third and nine. Yours had six interceptions on third down this year. Only three FBS quarterbacks had more interceptions on third down. I think that cost Texas this game. It's not a game in which Texas is down 20 to nothing before people get to their seats, like what Ohio State's been doing in the playoffs so far. In the Cotton Bowl, Beevo probably charges Will Howard if they get out to a 20 to nothing lead and prevents that from happening. Just give us a delay, get Texas settled in. Even if Beevo gets thrown out, he'll be the sacrificial lamb for this one. Maybe he'll actually do something productive. But it is a game in which Texas just feels like it doesn't quite have that juice. And if it does have that juice, we'll be having different conversations about Texas on Sunday. Ohio State doesn't quite look like the world beater that it's been the first two playoff games, but it makes enough plays to be able to win this one 27 or 23. - Yeah, I mean, I'm just looking at this box score from this Oregon game in awe. So you're telling, I don't want to get into the semantics here 'cause these box scores we've talked about agreed on. They're all a little bit weird, but this is the team with 16 carries that gave up 13 tackles for loss. - Hard to do. - It's really hard to do it when now a lot of that sacks. - Can you get, so a sack is a tackle for loss and-- - Yes, yes. - Okay, there you go. - Yeah, so then I'm like, that's eight sacks. That's the other part of it. - Why I eliminated the old Gabriel from that. - No, no, you're right. That's the thing, but I'm like, okay, the fact that they are able to get pressure, you know, on the running backs, on done Gabriel in every play, if it wasn't a sack, it was a tackle for loss. Basically, that's what I'm saying. Like it didn't matter if they ran the ball, they threw the ball, they always had. And again, the kind of preview I had here was they didn't exactly have the stars. That's a streak. You have eight guys who are really good at the front seven. That's actually a good thing, some would say. But yeah, I, you know, this would be an all-time SARC 40 chess, saving all the good plays situation. I have been wrong at every turn about Ohio State. It would be insanity, homerism to pick Texas here. I think that it is gonna be Ohio State's day. We talked about, and I literally said this in the preview. And then again, Skadaboo, like, hand up, kind of made this into the story. I'm not exactly gonna say this is how this game played out. But like, I was like, God, Texas is gonna look really good in this game, but then later on, all the injuries, all that different stuff could really come into play. And we talk about an offensive line for Texas that used to be their strength. There's now a little bit more banged up. You know, in week five, week four, you think, wow, this team could actually kind of stand up to Ohio State now. - And then Georgia happens and you realize, yeah, you face some of these elite defenses. It's a little bit tougher to kind of establish that balance. - Yep, exactly. That's exactly what I was going with that, where it's like, and that's why I said that the Georgia thing, 'cause I'm like, well, you know, it's always kind of the talent. We talk about this. There are upsets and then there is a team with equal talent, smoking you. I love Oregon. And so at the end of the day, Ohio State is, I mean, you saying they're well-coached right now, I mean, not laughing. It's a huge system, it's a ride, right? - Right. - And Chip Kelly, and I mean, it's-- - Chip Knowles, too. - It doesn't get enough credit, I think, on that defense. - Yeah, that was a higher that I loved at the time. It looked a little bit shaky for the first year or two, and I kind of checked out, like I just wasn't evaluating him after that, 'cause I thought it would really upgrade their defense. And this looks like the defense I was scared of. He was the one that came from Oklahoma State. - Oklahoma State, yeah. - And I remember they had great defense that year. That was like the playoff borderline team, and I was like, ah, this is a great VC. And so they've built a great staff. They've kind of like, you know, paid the money and everything. So yeah, I think it really just like it will take some kind of a, to your point, I think just when you was Herculean game, 'cause there aren't enough guys left. I mean, who is the Texas running back that you feel good enough about that you could say we can't throw the ball? - I just, I always love Wisener. Jay Blue at this point would make me nervous with the following issues that he's had. He would still make me nervous. Now, Wisener's not going to be, now he's been obviously down the stretch end of the season. I don't have to tell any fan about this. I don't have to tell Clemson fans about this. He has had moments where he has taken over, and perhaps I'm looking a little bit too much at how Arizona State was able to contain him and how it just didn't feel like those running lanes were there. - But that's a big problem. - Yeah. - That was a match up that we really like going into that game. When we said, hey, even with a banged up of a bunch of line, they should be able to push around, there was no state, and they weren't. - Yeah, now, I didn't think they were going to be able to push them around as well as they were, as they were able to push around Clemson. Just maybe you look at the numbers, Arizona State had been much better against the run than Clemson had, obviously. But yeah, that's going to be the thing that Texas just has to find. And if you haven't found that yet, and if this is just a one-dimensional Texas offense, you're just going to be waiting for the bad thing to happen. That's, I think, the problem going into this one, because as much as I feel like Weisner is a fun, slippery back, and when that one, two punches right with Weisner and Blue, Texas feels borderline unbeatable. And I'm probably focusing a little bit too much on game control and not so much what the actual scoreboard is saying, but I don't know that you can say with confidence that that's going to be there. And that's the problem. Even though I've given that Texas backfield and what Sark has done with it, a lot of credit this year for making do with the injuries that they've had in the backfield. I just, I wouldn't feel like that's going to be a given that they're able to get that part of the game going. - Yeah, I think, and it's not that I'm saying like, oh, I disagree with you, but I would recommend, not that I'm an expert or anything, but, you know, I said this, I remember saying this exactly twice. It was the Bama game last year for Texas, and it was the Michigan game this year for me that both kind of went similarly in a way where I was like, hey, this is going to be the going-you-ish show. And both of those he, he actually played exactly the way that I hoped he would to prove that right. And then to your point, it all kind of started to trail. So I would say like, in my opinion, unless somebody really just goes super sai and Allah George's defense, you really kind of got one guy. 'Cause again, Golden is a great player, but he's not Jeremiah Smith. He's not like one of these guys that you could just target 11 times, 15 times the game like this. So I think it's going to come down to the decision-making because exactly to your point, look, I mean, why isn't it a fumble in this game? They recovered it, and there's an estate game, they recovered it, but if both of your back- - That's the end zone one, right? Then I take it for a safety where you were, it somehow just goes right to you or so so- - That's actually good. Technically, that was still very bad. That's a really good point. It's like, yeah, his team recovered it, but yeah. And so the point being, there's not a back that I'm like, well, this is a, gosh, as weird as this sounds to say, it's almost like the conservative or safer approach would be giving them all the Queen yours because his turnovers will at least come downfield if he has them, and you need to give him the keys to this because there's not a lot of guys who are going to win one-on-one matchups on the offensive side specifically. I think defensively, it will be a little bit more interesting. I think again, PK, we have a lot of respect for him. We know the names on that side of the ball that if, hey, just say if anyone can at this point, but you like your chances a lot better on defense than you on offense right now, because again, look at the negative. Please look how Georgia went down. You know, that could be a very similar script here where you get a bad turnover, you get a weird special teams thing and you're looking down the barrel at a team that doesn't really need to throw the ball and now you do. And so point being, I think that they could control the game by not, you know, not really leaning too heavy on the run game, not saying, hey, we're going to do a bunch of like shotgun passing stuff, but trying to get you as those E looks early to where he gets, I mean, again, played really confidently to start the last game didn't translate to the end, well, it did translate to the end, but there was a lull there. But point being like, I'm actually of the opinion that you can't even have the mistakes in when this game. I think you just need to play pretty close to Mr. Crew football as, as you were is because other players, these are, you know, 19 to 25 year old kids, if you're, you know, Diego Pavia, and they're going to make mistakes. And you are the leader in the star of this team. You're the guy who used to be on Ohio State. You were the chosen son of Texas. Like you need to be this guy to kind of end your career or your career at Texas in a, in a way that kind of, you know, correctly represents it because, and I'm going to finish out on this. Like I said, they had me asking the question, like, what has this tenure been? And it's like, well, this year has made a lot of people, myself included, recently biased. I think, act when yours hadn't been that great for Texas. No, when yours was awesome for Texas, and we need that player to show up, or they need that player to show up against Ohio State, because this is a true David and Goliath situation. Say what you will, what the roster is. Let's look at the guys. Let's look at the dudes. This is a true David and Goliath situation where there's only really one matchup on the offensive side of the ball that I feel good enough about that I can trust it, you know? - One last question. Most important question. We buried the lead. Is this a Toby Keith game for both coaches? Definitely think it is for Ryan Day. Getting to a national championship, beating Texas, beating Oregon, beating Tennessee like a drum. Definitely got that potential. I mean, I think Ryan Day was looking at pretty much every game this playoff is a potential Toby Keith went for. I think it should be on the table for Sark, because he'd be two years removed from being in those early hot seat discussions. He's six years removed, obviously, from the Falcons, basically making him a casualty for a seven to nine season, even though they have top 10 offense that year. So many people have said, and this is a lot of Oklahoma fans who made this case coming into this year, that Sark has never proven to have sustained success, which previously, you could say, "Well, the guys never had consecutive nine win seasons." Well, now it's consecutive playoff seasons, and that list is what, I think, seven coaches that have been able to do that, three of which are still at their current jobs. So that's the question that I'll be, of course, thinking about as this game. This is Toby Keith moment. Is he about to have Toby Keith moment, Steve Sarkisian? Yeah, and I mean, to your point, what's crazy about this is this, even though Ohio State should win this game is favored in this game, this game will certainly mean more for Ryan Day than it will Sark, because-- Definitely. Yeah, he got his team too. Sorry about what you're saying, but again, I've always said, like, once we saw what this team was, this is a floor-raising season, the fact that they made it this far and didn't puke on their shoes, right? They beat the list of Georgia twice. If you lose to Georgia, Georgia to Ohio State, that's a good season. I don't care who you are. If you lose the SEC Championship, you have to Georgia. The first one was not great, but who among us? And it's like, yeah, you just weren't the team this year. Texas does not feel like a championship team to me this year, but if they beat Ohio State, that path will come to a lot easier. That's the key is that you could change your story, but I think Sark's story was more about, to your point, consistency. Are you a guy who's gonna crash out, as the kids said? Are you gonna be a guy who can't handle the pressure? Are you gonna be a guy who's screaming on the sidelines? Ryan Day's thing was just, he's kind of like, I hate to say soft, but Sark was the other way where he was like too intense, and it was like, can you hold a job for this song? So yeah, I think that either way, it's more of a Ryan Day game, 'cause getting smoked by Ohio State, again, happened to Oregon. All right, are they looking at their guy? Yeah, nobody's, I mean, yeah. Maybe some people are just realizing, ah, Denlaning is still very early in his career. Still, still very early. Again, a 30-something coach has not won a national title since Clemson in 1981, so we're talking about here. Wow. Yeah, isn't that crazy? That is crazy, yeah, yeah. Oh, one last last thing. It's gonna come down to the National Championship for our playoff draft, because I have Ohio State in Texas, you have Penn State Notre Dame, retired three points apiece. So basically, this game irrelevant for both of us, it'll come down to the National Championship while I'm gonna update the people on that. I feel pretty good about my chances. Feel pretty good. Yeah, to be honest, I think either way, you're pretty good there, but I, you know, that, hey, that's the real, as I get on Twitter, sadly, if Notre Dame wins a title or Penn State, at least they could say, well, I won a little fig, and I got caught in a, I don't know, apologized to Bevo or something. I don't know, we'll see, we'll see. All right, let's kick it to Chris Budden. Great to catch up with her, discuss takeaways from her travels this season. Here it is, Chris. I'm not excited to be joined by a very special guest. It is the great Chris Budden. Chris, did you cancel Christmas this year? No, in fact, I took my kids on a Disney cruise, but I did buy the insurance for those that don't remember, last year my daughter opened up her Christmas presents early, and I canceled a trip to Disney. This year I was gonna take them on a trip on a Disney cruise, and I did buy the insurance just in case I did have to cancel it, but we went, everyone's like, did you have a great time? And I was like, the kids had a great time, and my husband and I found out we're not cruise people. Disney did a great job, kids loved it, that's all that matters. But it's basically like Disney World on a boat, and instead of going back to a hotel room, you go back to like a shoebox that moves that you can't look out the window 'cause you might throw up. Okay, when you say you're not cruise people, which is, I think we are, like my wife and I were in the same exact camp, we went on one cruise, great company, had an awesome time, we came away from it thinking, we wouldn't do this unless a group of people asked us to do this again. What's the one thing that made you go, hmm, I'd rather do a different vacation? - There's just a lot of people everywhere, and like I get it, it's Disney Cruise, and so you are expected to be around a lot of people, and a lot of kids, and listen, they do a great job like setting up the day, and we got to see all these shows, and we saw Mufasa, and you got to see the characters, like my five and eight year old loved it. My daughter has her pink cast signed by Minnie Mouse. But like you are sitting at dinner, like swaying, and then like, your kids are on top of each other 'cause you're in this like 100 square foot little shoebox. I would go if there was like, I wanted to go to a bunch of islands, and you just used the ship to get from place to place, not where you spent most of the day. And I won't say this, we also left out of Galveston, where it was a little bit chilly, so you couldn't really use the pool. Plus, the pools were closed half the time because some kids left some baby roofs at the bottom of the pool. - Hate it when that happens, it would be absolute worst. Yeah, ruin the fun for everyone. You're doing this right ahead of traveling for 20 days for the Australian Open, which will be out there covering, you're doing some orange bull stuff as well, en route to their true or false, you are sick of football, that's why you're not doing anything national championship related. - I know, I was actually supposed to do radio for national championship, and our boss calls, and I'm obviously a big tennis person, that's how my husband and I met. He's like, what would be your interest level of the Australian Open? And it's never, because the playoffs are pushed back, you know, like national championships on January 20th, and it was like, do love the national championship, doing radio, or 17 days in Australia, covering a grand slam, kind of gonna have to choose Australia. - I would choose that too. It's one thing if you're being asked to do on air stuff or the national championship, like during the game and stuff, and it's like, oh, hey, I'm doing, you know, this is what I've done, I built my entire career to do this. Australia opens a different beast, and you get to do that stuff. Like, that's now in a different strategy. Okay, let me throw a curveball at you. I've had a handful of things in my adult life that I have had to just do a 180 on. Like, I've realized that these were things that I was completely out on, and then the more I watched or listened to them, I realized how wrong I was, and they were actually awesome. Bruno Mars, Julia Roberts, those are the two biggest ones for me. Is there anything like that that comes to mind first? And I almost discount food, because food is one of those things where everybody's got taste buds that evolve over time. You could hate sushi when you're 12, then you have it when you're 25. You realize it's very good, but what's something like that for you? And I promise I have a point. - Oh, I don't know, 'cause usually if I'm out on something, like I don't even try, like Harry Potter, like I should probably try Harry Potter, and I just think that I'm never gonna like it. Same thing with like Star Wars, Star Trek. I mean, I guess what was that series with Kristen Stewart and the Vampire Twilight? - Twilight. - I thought that I would have been out on Twilight, and I actually very much enjoyed it. Books are, I got a stack of books next to me. So like books are the only really thing that come to mind. There's a lot of food that I was out on as a kid that I learned to like like Brussels sprouts. Brussels sprouts vary in, making a comeback. - Yeah, I think Twilight would be what comes to mind. - Well, it's good, okay, it's the Harry Potter thing. I mean, you get a lot of time on a plane. I'm just saying you want to roll through an entire series. It's a good place to do it. Okay, I say that because I am two Penn State wins away from having to do with that with James Franklin. And you covered the Fiesta Bowl. Did you come away from that game thinking that Penn State truly looked like a team that could win at all? - TBD. - That's a no. It's hard because of the path, right? Like you go through SMU and then you go through Boise State. I mean, they did shut down for the majority of the game, the best running back in the country and the runner up for the Heisman. That said, I think you knew going up against Boise if we could stop like number two, let anyone other than number two beat us. You know, we talked about this a little bit on our radio show was there seems times offensively where it's like, where'd you guys go? Like you have the best title in the country. You have two of the best running backs in the country. And sometimes it's like, what driver are we putting together? Andy Kotalnicky. I do think the Orange Bowl is the game. The game where we all sat here and have said, you know, James Franklin's never won the big one. It can't win the big games. Like that's a narrative changer. They're underdogs against an under game. And if you go and do this and that potentially sets up a matchup against Ohio State and then what, you know, what if that, what if you do come away with the win? I mean, I've covered a handful of Penn State games in the past where the nine overtime game that they won over Illinois, they won that game and I'm sitting at a restaurant and everyone's talking about wanting to get rid of James Franklin, right? There is this like, what is good enough? Like Thursday's game is going to be to me the decider. And I can't figure out offensively if they have it like they have enough talent, but if Drew Aller has to win them a football game, can he get it done? And that to me, there's still a question mark out there. - It's a good point. And I think two of the three best players left in the field, you could make a real case Penn State players. With the exception of Jeremiah Smith, I'd say if Abdul Carter's healthy, if, you know, I mean, if we're talking about Tyler Warren being used properly and not just being ignored like he was the end of the Ohio State game, then yeah, I mean, Penn State has a really good case port. But as you bring up, there are a lot of things to always consider, especially late in game with Penn State with James Franklin. You've covered a lot of Texas things over the years, including the selection Sunday that they had, where they get the playoff announcement. Compare that day to how it felt to cover other moments in Austin that you've witnessed prior to 2023, because it's wild to me how Texas Forever was this traditional power who would never return to juggernaut status. And then all of a sudden, on a selection Sunday, it just kind of looks like business as usual. - Yeah, 'cause it's funny 'cause I also had Texas the year before getting in on selection Sunday. And I remember the uproar when their name, 'cause there was more question marks. We were still only four teams. Were they gonna get in? And there's this huge roar. And I remember almost feeling like the building was shaking. And then this one was much more subdued. It was like, okay, who are we playing? And so I think that SARC has gotten them from a mentality standpoint of we're not hopeful to be there. We're not happy to get there. We deserve to be there. And for so long that Texas is back haunted them. And it's like no one talks about that anymore because this is a completely new era under SARC. But I do have question marks. Like Jesse Palmer put it perfectly in the game. Like sometimes Texas starts playing with their food in the middle of the game. And there's this great first 90 seconds of two great offensive plays and then a punt return for kickoff or for touchdown. And then what? And then where does it go? The fact that that was the first game in a while that we didn't have to see arch-manning. Can, Texas, and that has been the knock for Texas for years. I remember after SARC's first year, they kept losing all these games in the fourth quarter. And he changed a lot of the stuff that he did in practice in order to get better in the fourth quarter. Now it's on fourth quarter. It's almost like the middle of the game that you're just like where'd you go? Can you put on the gas for a full four quarters on what will be, I mean, the way that Ohio State has looked over the last two games to be an incredibly tough matchup. I mean, I don't know. Like Ohio State sat here and heard enough for the last month or so that our coach needs to be gone and that we stink and they were like, let us show you. So I do have questions about Texas, but it does feel different of like, not that we're hoping to be there, but yeah, we're here. - Have you talked yourself into an upset or are you going with Ohio State? - I think I can talk myself into an upset. You know, like this is always to me also like March Madness, right? Like the teams that you've seen the best of the best and you've seen them at their worst, you know? I mean, as long as Chip Kelly doesn't forget what he has in his wide receiver room, listen, I think that they're gonna win. I also think that there has been enough, like is that team where they are right now if they don't lose that Michigan game? - No, I don't know. - Is Notre Dame where they are if they don't lose NIU? Like there's certain things. And I felt that Will Howard in that game at the Rose Bowl, for as well as he played that first matchup against Oregon, the only thing we remember is him sliding in the clock management at the end in the clock going out. And I think for him, that was a redemption that game against Tennessee. Everyone's coming to fill the horseshoe and it's gonna be all orange. Like let us show you. And does that sustain? Can you continue that against one of the best defenses in the country? - Yeah, now you don't have that angle of we're, we're the underdogs. Everybody's picking against, no, hot state's the favorite and you'd better win or else we're gonna be talking about Ryan Day on the hot seat again. Like that's just the way that this works. You were at the Egg Bowl this year, Black Friday, different vibe for the Egg Bowl just for those of us that are watching from home. - Yeah. - Had you covered that before? - I had not. I had done a lot of Georgia, Georgia Tech. Oh, good old fashioned hate, which would have been a heck of a year to have that one. No, but had the Egg Bowl and yeah. It was definitely for like, you definitely got a sense that like in these rivalry games, like anything can happen and you felt a little bit that of Mississippi State and they kept it close for a while but that was my first chance of getting to see that rivalry. - I almost texted you after the post-game interview with Jackson Hart because he and Lane, but those who watch this know what I'm talking about, he and Lane shared this very long hug and Lane said something to you before looking Jackson in the eye and was like, get it together, man. Like snap out of that. You're about to go on live television. Like, you've got to be able to say a word. Do you remember what he said to you? - I don't know. I just looked at like, he gets this like wide eye. Like, this is awkward. Is this kid ever gonna stop up? - All right, buddy. All right. - And then he claps. - Yeah. - Just like, but like their relationships are really cool because Lane was like, I didn't know that, you know, after Matt Corral had left, that like, they had a special relationship, whether or not he'd ever have that with a quarterback again. And those two have been very open about just their growth, that the fact after losing that game at Florida, like Jackson went over to his house and just watched football. Didn't watch game film. He just like sat on Lane's couch and watched football. Like that. And I was like, can you imagine any other quarterback and head coach duo doing that? Like I can imagine Carson Beck being like, hey Kirby, like can I just come over and hang? Like maybe Sarkin Quinn, like I'm trying to think like that. It's just very rare and part of it's the age of Lane and that he is very youthful. But that was very cool to see like their development over the years. - Yeah, if it was James Franklin, you'd ask you to go set it up with the secretary before doing that, but that's different subject for a different time. Was that a better post game interview than the Hugh Freeze one after the A&M game because you didn't have to dodge a field rush? - Oh yeah. Like I love a field rush. I really do. - Do you though? I would. - Yeah, like you. Yeah, like there's like, and by the way, you see it coming. Like you, it's not like a, like I've never been part of a court storming or a field storming where I was like, didn't see that coming. Like people's legs are halfway over the thing. And it is kind of a challenge. Like kind of make sure I don't lose the coach. And like you lose your cameraman and you're like, or producer's like, we don't have a camera on you. I was like, I don't care. Like I'm standing here with him. I'm going to lose him. Like, let's do it. That the worst one was the field storming in Atlanta for Georgia Tech over Miami. Because Brent Key is just so offensive lineman energy that he doesn't even have words. And when I asked him what Haines King gave him today and he's like, he played. That's it. That's where he had the opener against Florida State and he slipped in to run the ball. And he like slipped in the fine bomb caller. Like, Brent Key, what are you saying right now? Did he even know what planet he was on? He just cared about winning the football game and everything after that. He just goes completely blank. - By the way, not a funny story because it is sad for the girl. If you've ever been to Bobby Dodd Stadium, it is a large drop off from where on one side, which would be Georgia Tech's side, to get down to the field. It's a good like eight foot drop over like a brick wall. And I do my interview, I'm getting off. Everyone is still like piling onto the field. I go to my audio thing and there is a girl laying on the ground because she bit it and could no longer walk. So it is a little dangerous people. Just be prepared. Maybe have someone catch you on your way down if you are attempting to be a part of a field storming. For the record, field storming, court rushing, completely okay with the semantics of it. I am speaking as someone that when I go to the grocery store and there is a blockage in an aisle, I get ready to lose my mind and I just want people to acknowledge my existence. And that is the ultimate situation where people do not acknowledge each other's existence. And it would just mess with my paranoia, would love to be part of one someday. But yeah, I always feel like the ability to be able to get there. And we've talked about this before, the ability to get there and get that interview. I mean, that's everything in that moment. But you were probably at this point just happy to get field storming games because last year, didn't you have done after God? - Oh my gosh, we had so many blots last year because like this was what has been great, not just about the 12 team playoff, but just the parody this year of like, we had a bunch of upsets. We had an upset of SMU over Louisville. We had the Georgia Tech over Miami. Like we had a bunch of them and you like, there's just, you know, when you, especially when it's only 14 playoff, like by October, if you don't have one of those six teams that's in the hunt, you know, like your storylines aren't as great. And you know, then you're getting, we also didn't have teams, like every team had a flaw this year. A lot of teams had a lot of flaws. And so there was always this chance that these teams could get upset and you go in knowing that. And so just in general, like also, can I just say, being with Lewis Riddick, like such a smart, wonderful dude, I'm gonna cry if he goes to become a GM somewhere, maybe the Jets. But like also like enjoyable being around him as well, 'cause I've just like learned so much football from him. - Very respected person in this industry. It seems like never heard a bad thing about Lewis. I know Matt Barry worked with him and just absolutely loved the guy. Seems like somebody that just can do whatever he wants. Just gotta figure out what it was. Like 15, 20 years looked like. - Yeah. - I'll get you out of here because I know you got a lot to do, but I wanna get you out of here talking to Mizzou things. - Yeah. - I feel like, well, let's first flip the, we're gonna flip the reporter hat into a fan hat, which is important for this discussion. Mizzou wins 10 games. It's a nice finish for Brady Cook. But unlike in 2023 when Mizzou's this upstart, it's I think just one of those things that even if you're a neutral fan or you're just looking on the outside, you can tell why people are talking about Mizzou. I don't think this year you have to include Mizzou when you tell the story of college football. How did you kind of view this season overall? - Yeah, the year before you go and you win the Cotton Bowl and it's this, okay, now Mizzou has deserved to be in this conversation as a contender in the SEC. Whereas I feel like there's been this look at Mizzou, like you should just be happy to be in our conference. When like, if you look at the start of when they got into the conference, they won the East two out of the, what, I think first three years there. And then, so then everyone's like, oh, wow, look at where Mizzou is. And I felt like there was like this momentum. Now the problem became, okay, well, we started off the season saying that you were favored in 11 of your 12 games. Now is Mizzou gonna be part of the CFB? Like, now the standard has changed and it should be. It should be there with the talent that Eli has brought in and what you had returning. But there did almost end up being like this. Like we could see it, right? We could see this path to be part of the discussion of the CFP. And at times almost felt like a disappointment. There was a lot more close games than there should have been at times. But it was really fun to watch like hats off to Brady Cook and what he gave that fan base and he gave that team this year despite all of the injuries that he had. It was a really enjoyable year. And at least I'm glad I'd rather be disappointed that we didn't make the CFP and at least still think like we deserve to be in that conversation than the rest of the world looking at us being like, whoa, like who is the Missouri Tigers? And where's Columbia, Missouri? Like no, there was a time there where they were number one in the BCS. And we were part of the discussion with Brad Smith and Chase Daniel and everybody else. And for, I felt like pre-season talk leading into, up until really the loss at A&M and Blanket Gate that they had deserved the pub of being talked about the top of the SEC. Blanket Gate was the end of it, right? Like you do look at, there was one half of the season and then Blanket Gate happened and it was the second half of the season. It might have been a curse. Once we found out from the A&M side then that wasn't the other thing. I said, "Trinkie's pushing all the buttons." - Did that shock you at all? - No, that's the problem. - I know. At first I was like, "Wait, what?" And then I was like, "Ah, tracks." - Whatever you can to motivate Theo Wies, I guess you gotta do. You guys have been playing concert football forever, but all right, whatever you gotta do. Okay, so let's say Chase Daniel is the GOAT. Let's say there's no discussion. He is the best quarterback in Mizzou history. Give me number two among Mizzou quarterbacks. Recent memory. We'll keep it to the modern era. Brady Cook, you can pick between Brady Cook, Drew Locke, the very underrated James Franklin, other James Franklin and Blaine Gabbard. - Probably Blaine Gabbard. I mean, hey, Brad Smith was pretty good when I was there too, leading up to the, that's like way dating people are gonna be like, "Who the heck's Brad Smith?" - Probably Blaine Gabbard, I would say, is two. Can I say this also, like, as, you know, disappointed as I was that we weren't in the CFP, we did beat Kansas in basketball. - That's all people care about anyways, right? - I know. Like, remember, we were basketball school. - That's basketball school, journalism school. - They didn't win a single SEC game last year, but they beat Kansas at their home court. We never beat Kansas when I was there and I slept in tents and I was part of the Zookru and never did it. And so at least, hey, we'll have that. - That's all that matters, indeed, really. Okay, last one for you. Who's got bragging rights in your household because your husband's a Tennessee fan. So on one hand, he got the playoff. You're able to get in there and feel like that's a legitimate accomplishment. And I do, and I don't wanna take away from what Tennessee did, but his team got walled on national stage and both of your schools ended up 10 and three and they didn't face each other. - So who gets the true bragging rights? - Oh, he gets the true bragging rights because remind you also, he's like still coming off of the baseball championship. So I mean, he does have a natty win. I also cover that championship. So he does, I will say is we were on the cruise when it happened, the Ohio State game. And he was like, I'm gonna skip dinner. You take the kids to, I was fine. I was like, that's fine, have your moment. And then the first like 10 minutes happened and I thought we were gonna get tossed overboard because they were screaming and yelling coming from one of the cabins on the second floor. And then he wised up and realized maybe I should just watch the rest of the thing on Gamecast. But you know, props to Tennessee. Like basketball, women's basketball, baseball. Like this is such a great college town that went through a very bad like 10 years. And now like my husband's pissed off because they lost in the CFP. Like they deserve to be there. What happens next year? Because I don't know what's happening in Knoxville, seems like everyone's leaving in their team. I don't know what's happening. So yeah, we'll see what happens next year. - We'll see, look, just getting there. That's after the decade that was and you're exactly right. It helps when you're really good at all those other sports like Tennessee is. - Can I share this cool story? 'Cause we had Tennessee, Florida. Again, another close game that we didn't think was gonna be close. That was the game that Graham Mertz got hurt. Like talk about Florida season. Like that Graham Mertz getting hurt changed their second half of the season. But so I'm sitting there and then like it's a night game. It is like we're waiting for the fireworks and the running out of the tee. And I see Tony Vitello down there, baseball coach say hi to him. And this guy from afar is like, Chris, what's up? And it's a former relief pitcher for the Padres. And I was like, what are you doing here? And he was like, oh, I'm here with Max Scherzer. Like we're good buddies. And I was like, of course, Max Scherzer, connection, Mizzou, Tony Vitello. And Tony's like, yeah, it's a big recruiting weekend for us. And I was like, oh, see, just bring in Max Scherzer. But so we're all standing there watching like the beginning, the running out of the tee. And I'm standing next to Scherzer and he's like, wow. Like this is really cool. And like for people like that in his status to sit there on the sidelines at Neilan Stadium and be like in awe of the scene, you know, like that's that's pretty special. Like we're wow and Ace is over here. - My buddy who a very different perspective like suburbs of Chicago native thought he's experienced the coolest sports things in the world has been to three Tennessee games in the last two years. Same exact reaction of watching and just being like, okay, this is different, I get it. I understand the SEC way, I understand the Tennessee way and why people obsess over this. And maybe they, you know, just decide to make loud noises from their cabin on a Disney cruise when things are going their way, I get it. - Lisa was no iPhones broken. It's why I keep the insurance on the iPhone. - Insurance on the cruise, insurance on the iPhone. - The one game we did watch, so I had the egg bowl on Friday and I was like, great, I can get home, watch coach football Saturday with my husband. I don't ever get to do this. That was the Vanderbilt game and it lasted 15 seconds into the kickoff return for a touchdown. There was a lot of yelling and I apparently ruined the Juju and was not allowed to watch it with him the rest of the day. - Well, it worked. - It worked, yeah, it worked. - So, I mean, you just need to do that when, well I guess that's not a Diego Poppy thing, that's a Tennessee thing. I was gonna say you should do that. Auburn fans will reach out to you and be like, when Diego Poppy faces Hugh Freeze again, you're gonna have to do that, just leave the room. - It's exactly, yeah, yeah. - Chris, you're the best, safe travels, enjoy Australia, enjoy reading Harry Potter to and pro. - Appreciate it, probably not Harry Potter. All right, well, let's close with some later of the week. Mind if I start, go ahead. Bryce Young, Bryce Young, yeah. I've been rooting for Bryce Young in the NFL, okay? And I hated the notion that he was already a bust in year two with just the worst surroundings imaginable. I hated the pre-draft discussions about his height. We talked about this when I need to repeat that. I hated even the instance of my team having the one in a million trade heist that never happens for the Bears and him kind of being on the wrong end of that. That even didn't sit right with me. But seeing him come back the way that he has after his benching is just been incredible. I won't pretend that I watch full Panthers games. I don't even have time to watch full Bears games. Yes, I would never do that to myself, why would I? So I'm admittedly highlight watching, box-core watching with a lot of this stuff, okay, in ways that I do not do college football, but the throw that he made where he did the Steph Curry, the Steph Curry turn around. Just the perfect sign that that dude is back. He's feeling himself. He's looking like the guy that we saw at Bama and a guy who for two years at Bama was mostly TV, in my opinion. I thought he was unbelievably special. I thought he was so fun to watch. I banged the drum that I thought he was the best Bama quarterback of all time. I made that case by the time that he finished his career and thought that, man, I just, I want to see this guy for 15 years, do this in the NFL. Like, it would just be really, really fun to watch. And seeing the joy that he's playing with now has just been great. Now, I'll continue to root for that guy. He's putting up huge numbers. First Panthers quarterback to have three passing touchdowns and two rushing touchdowns in a game, ever. Oh, Cam Newton. See, we can compare you to Cam Newton. Fairly, finally, look at that. Yeah, that's crazy. That's one time where I will bring up Cam Newton. Cam Newton didn't do that. Cam Newton gave a nice little shout out afterwards. And Cam Newton also played the Falcons twice a year. So you can't even hold that, it gets to exactly, exactly. We've got special things happen when Bryce Young gets to play a Mercedes-Benz. That's what I would say. So that's funnier. Love rooting for Bryce. Yeah, man, mine is going to be a little bit of Ede Crow. This is a random athlete that I've talked a lot of mess about. You've probably even heard of it. But I'm going to give him his followers for this one. This is a Tampa Bay. Book of the years wide receiver, Mike Evans. Oh, I thought you were going to go Liam Cohen. Dang. Liam Cohen, yeah, he should-- well, that's there at an interesting spot because I think the fans want him to have that job. But anyway, so he-- so Mike Evans is a guy that, you know, is a Saints fan. We have had this kind of rivalry with him. Marshall and a lot of more has played, for whatever reason, with his hair on fire, like one of the Georgia defenders the entire time they've played together. So my joke was I've never seen the good version of Mike Evans because I was, I guess, Marshall-- Hey, there's more. And it's funny because in a kind of stretch here where we saw Gaston O and Brett Favre have that weird little exchange, but I found myself-- So weird. So weird. I just rewatched the New York Zack exchange, the 3430 on ESPN. And I saw that again. And I was-- because I put that out of sight, out of mind, a couple of years ago. And then I watched it again in the doc. And I thought to myself, this is the most uncomfortable human interaction I've ever seen in my entire life. Mark Gassnope, Brett Favre, Google it. Do that on your own time, kids. I found myself watching Mike Evans get his seventh consecutive 1,000 yard season and basically break Jerry Rice's record. And I actually don't even know the number because at that point I was inflamed with rage. But I was watching him break this record. And I was like, I just felt a sense of like, you know what? He did it. At the end of the day, that was the thing that I would always say is like, oh, these were garbage time stats. But unfortunately, against my team to win the division for the fourth consecutive time, a nice little bullet point, a nice little exclamation point on the Mike Evans career is his signature stat, 1,000 yard receiving seasons, taking that away from Jerry Rice on a play that the Saints, I think, kind of-- They couldn't feel it. They couldn't feel it. Yeah. This is a $3 million bonus. This is NFL player. Even your rivals, this isn't the Larry Bird day is. And I watched that happen. And I just went, look at how hard it is to do this. This big year's in a row. You son of a bee. It actually is. It's like, well, people are going to use hurt. I'm like, yeah, that's kind of the point. It's kind of hard to play. I watched Mike Thomas be the best receiver in the NFL for like two or three years and now we're-- Mike Evans was drafted like a smooth almost decade before that gentleman is still playing. And I've given him so much crap over my-- I mean, this is a guy who was like-- I guess he played in the-- yeah, he played in the SEC because that was the man's out year. So he recruited-- Yeah, he recruited to the Big 12 and played a little bit of the Big 12 but was, I guess, an SEC draft E because I would describe it. And I just remember being like, oh, this guy. And I'm looking at him and she's like, this is actually-- I get it now. This is actually incredible. I'm not going to go as far as to say that he's like a whole favorite. It's up to me. Oh, he's a whole favorite. No to me. I have a hater of my core. I'm not going to concede that point. But she after she retweeted it yesterday. So at the end of the day, this is a guy. And at the end of the day, Tom Brady shows up. My whole thing is your career happens in garbage time. You beat my team on the road and then you win the Super Bowl. So if you're going to sit here and say, oh, this didn't matter. Well, you have just as many Super Bowls as my team. So I just want to be nice one time to this gentleman because I've given him so many years of hate. The $3 million bonus thing on a play that was just garbage time. And the doppelganger, he just dials it up for them. And you see the celebration afterwards. And I saw that highlight. And that was such a cool thing to see him get $3 million on this play. Because he was five-yard short if they don't drop this play, that $3 million bonus. And it was such a cool thing that I talked at Lauren about it. That's how you know something is cool. She's like, yeah, I wish I cared about this stuff. I just don't. I'm like, I know, but I just had to tell someone. But there. Yeah, by the way, the number is 11. Geez, I remember when it was eight. I don't know why I said seven, but it's 11. And the fact of like, yeah, man, I guess, OK, yeah, there's 17 games, he plays 17 games one time. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's all legit. So hate to say it, but give it a cap. Unreal Mike Evans. All right, schedule for us. We're going to record on Sunday. We're going to recap the playoffs. So this will be the last midweek pod that we're doing. We'll record. We'll recap all things playoff related. If you have not, please leave us a five-star review. Subscribe to our YouTube channel where you can watch every episode of the Saturday on South podcast. Follow us on Twitter at the SDSPod at Southtown South. That's you, your Garra. Act goes for a hug. Thanks guys. Have a good one. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [BLANK_AUDIO]
It's a loaded Playoff preview pod! The guys discuss whether the SEC is actually dead, plus they have a full breakdown of the Cotton Bowl matchup between Texas and Ohio State. ESPN's Kris Budden joined the show to discuss the year that was, including whether Penn State can win a national title, the change in perception at Texas, field-storming at Auburn, Mizzou perspective and more. The guys close with Lad of the Week.
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