FM Talk 1065 Podcasts
What's Working with Cam Marston S7 E 28
(upbeat music) Well folks, the date is finally here. I've been promoting this show for about a month now. I've got the two people that will be guests on the show on with me right now. So we're even doing this show a little bit different. If you're a fan of the show, you'll know I usually don't bring the guests in to segment two. On via a Zoom call is Brandon Smith. He's the workplace therapist. He's the president of the worksmiths, and he's the co-founder of the Leadership Foundry. Sitting across from me is Will's More. He's with Agilitas Human Resource Consulting. Will's is a great fan of the book that I've been promoting that has been written by Brandon Smith called "The Author Versus Editor Dilemma." The subtitle reads, "The Leadership Secret "to Unlocking Your Team, Your Time, and Your Impact." And in anticipation of this conversation, I've read and highlighted the book. And we're gonna get into what I think is going to be some remarkable tactics of how to lead in a busy workplace. So, for those of you who are listening to this show for the first time, welcome to What's Working. I'm Cam Marston. We focus on workplace, workforce, and marketplace trends. And you've joined this show at, I think, one of the pinnacles of what I've done thus far. We'll begin with Brandon, who's zooming in. Brandon, thank you so much for your time. Welcome to What's Working. Cam, really, really excited to be here. Thanks for having me. And Will, sitting across from me, has driven in from across the bay here in South Alabama. Thank you for your time, and welcome to What's Working. Thanks, Cam. It's great to be here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad we're all doing this. Let's start with you, Brandon, talk about this book, and briefly, where it came from, and what you think the core messages are, and then we'll get into how Will's is using it in his executive coaching. Yeah, thanks, Cam. So this is actually my second book. When I was writing my first book, The Hot Sauce Principle, how to live a lead in a world where everything's urgent all the time, I was knee-deep in kind of author, editor, speak. And so I was working with a client. So 50% of my time is spent as an executive coach. So I'm working with this individual client, and I just decided to use this analogy of making sure they were sitting in the right seats. And so we'll talk more about the concept and how people can practically use it. But what I find is when things are urgent all the time, leaders have a tendency to drop down into the weeds. They spend time in the business when they should be on the business. And so I started using this analogy of author versus editor, and it just clicked. And so for a good four or five years, I was using that concept, refining it, and then I turned it into a book. Yeah, it's great. And so that is what we have today. And we're gonna get into what the roles of author versus editor are, likely after the first break, because it's key to understanding the concept you present. But wills, you use it in your executive coaching here locally. Unfortunately, the one of your clients who was supposed to be able to join us got down with the COVID this week and is not able to join us. Tell me how you're using the content. And then after break, we'll get into exactly what it is. What is the big takeaways your clients find from this? Yeah, so I work with small businesses that are going through growth and transformation, and I work with the business owner or CEO, usually on a number of different initiatives, but underlying all that is coaching them on how to change and grow their business. And so this has been a great tool to help them take a look at, look in the mirror at their own leadership style. What do they need to be doing differently as their business changes? How do they need to raise their game? Is it kind of a palm to the forehead moment when they smack themselves in the head and go, "Oh my gosh, it's now clear to me "how I'm getting in the way of progress?" Yes, some get it more quickly than others. Some never get it. This is part of the thing we're gonna talk about down the road here is some of the challenges of implementing this or getting leaders to kind of buy into this concept. That'll take us to the first break, folks. This is gonna be a really tactics driven show if you are a leader of any sort and perhaps we'll get into parenting trends, which is also discussed in the book. This is gonna be good. The book is titled The Author versus Editor Dilemma. I'm sitting online with the author Brandon Smith and across from me is Will's More Who Uses the book in his executive coaching. You're listening to what's working. I'm Cam Marston, you're in for a good one. We'll be right back. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) This is Seth Churniak, vice president of branch development for the Jeffrey Matthews financial group. If you are an experienced financial advisor wanting the freedom of independence but aren't sure making that jump is right for you, we should talk. Jeffrey Matthews has developed a successful program for advisors who don't want to be 1099 contractors and don't want to pay for their own overhead. We're looking for advisors who want the freedom to run their business the way they see fit with the support that comes with a W-2 firm. If you're interested in joining one of our branches or if you want to open your own branch as a full-time employee, let's chat. Our compensation plan is one of the most competitive among all W-2 firms, big or small. Reach out to us today at Jeffrey Matthews.com, connect with me, Seth Churniak on LinkedIn or click the link in the podcast. Jeffrey Matthews financial group, member FINRA, S-I-P-C. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - And we're back, you're listening to what's working. I'm Cam Marston, thank you so much for joining us. We have promoted the show. I've been promoting the show for about a month. On the other side of a Zoom call for me is Brandon Smith, the author of the author versus editor dilemma and sitting across from me is Will's More with the Jillitas Human Resource Consulting who uses this book with his executive coaching clients. Brandon, let's get into tactics, nuts and bolts. What is the author? What is the editor? What are their roles? What does the book teach about them? - So the concept is really simple, Cam. So essentially whenever there's a leader in a direct report and that dynamic, someone has to sit in the author seat and someone has to sit in the editor seat. Okay, so both seats have to be filled. It's really important we understand that. And the key is knowing what seat to sit in when. So to cut to the chase, when I'm coaching leaders and when Will's is coaching leaders, it's really important that we want those leaders sitting in the editor seat with their teams, their direct reports, 80% of the time and the author seat only 20. And for all the folks listening to this call, they know exactly that that makes sense. They think about your all time rock stars, your best employees, the team members you wish you could have five more of. - Well, when there was an issue or problem, what do they do? They come to you and they say, "Hey, there's an issue or problem. "Here's what I think we should do about it. "I'd love to get your thoughts." They author a solution for you to edit. - They create the solution and bring it to the leader to say edit this, fix this or adjust this. - Exactly. So what this is, it's a more complex executive level way of thinking at kind of bring me solutions, not problems, that kind of idea. Because our not so effective direct reports, what do they do? There's a problem. What do you want me to do about it? And they held their hands up. Now when they hold their hands up, it sounds innocent, but what they're really doing is they're really going to that author seat. They're reeling you in. So now you either tell them what to do, which takes more time, or you say things are so urgent around here, don't worry about it, I'll do it for you. And then when you jump into that author seat, not only does it take more time, they can sit in the editor seat and say, "Well, it's not my fault it didn't work out. "I'm just doing what Cam told me to." Don't look at me, Wells took it away and did it. They reversed the leadership role. They've made the organization's leader, the subordinate in that case. In that case. And so it's real tricky because leaders pat themselves on the back and say, "I'm a humble leader, I'm a servant leader, "I rolled up my sleeves and I got my hands dirty, "and that's good, we like that." But when you do it all the time, what you're really doing is you're falling into one of the traps that I write about in the book, the hero trap. You're throwing on your hero cape and you're swooping in and you're saving the day every day. But when you do that regularly, we're now creating a codependent relationship. Our direct reports never learn how to solve those problems. And all they learn is to pick up the phone and call you. And so it's all on your shoulders. And that's why we see when the flow reverses incorrectly and they're offering too much, leaders work 70 hours or more. And it's really about how we use our time more wisely. - Wells, you've worked with leaders, face to face, eyeball to eyeball. I know a couple of them who you work with. When you present this concept to them, do they struggle, regardless of whether they understand it or not, I think it's simple enough to understand, do they struggle to change behavior because they're good at being the author versus the editor? - Yes, the absolutely most leaders struggle, especially in smaller organizations, I tend to work with companies that are between maybe 15 to 500 employees. And so in smaller organizations, people are doing more. But one of the benefits I have is, because I'm working with organizations on a longer term, you get to see whether they're really applying the change and you kind of walk along with them to say, are you really assessing this effectively? Like, do you really understand which seat you're sitting in? Sometimes it takes repeated conversations, it takes trying different practices and those kinds of things. One of the things we try to do on this show is get to actions, beyond content or theory to actions. So Will's, when you're working with this executive leader, do you tell them when you have your next meeting, do this or say this? Do you give them very direct approach to get out of that author role into the editor role? And because I can imagine this new behavior would be uncomfortable for them. It's like putting a different person's shoes on. You can do it, makes sense, but it just feels weird. What do you do for them to get them to start the first time? - The first thing is to have a lot of conversations about how they lead their team currently. And do they have regular one-on-ones? What are the nature of those? What's the dynamic there? Is it more, you know, they're just prescribing the work or is it more, how can I help you? So then I'm a huge fan and Brandon writes about this in the book, the weekly one-on-one, checking in with each person who's a direct report. And they come to you with what they're working on, priorities, what they're struggling with. Again, that's authoring versus editing. So that's really one of the fundamental things I try to put in place with business leaders today. - How about you, Brandon, when you work with your executive leaders, what do you do to get them to initialize this process? - Yeah, there's two first steps in this. First, if you want to put this in place, the first step is you need to tell your teams you're going to make some changes. Otherwise, when you start doing things differently, they're not going to understand why. They're going to say, what's Cam doing? I don't understand this. So you need to let them know what you're going to start doing differently and what you're going to stop doing. So that's really important. And then second, from now on, if you like the concept, the way you implement it and execute on it is you have to require an every one-on-one, as Will's was talking about, that direct report must bring something for you to react to. If you have one-on-ones with direct reports coming in empty-handed, by definition, you're authoring. - Yes, yes. - They need to bring you something, and at minimum, it should be a status update. But if they're a more senior direct report or more advanced, we want a status update, less a point of view on what's going on with that status update, and maybe even recommendations on how to solve for it. That's what I really want. If they bring you that, then now you've got something really rich and meaty you can edit from. Does the leader say in this transition process, when we meet next week, I'm gonna want the following from you? Or does the leader say, when we meet next week, you're leading the conversation. How instructive or how specific is the leader needing to be to create this new type of relationship? - Great question, Cam. So let's borrow from the US military. So what they do is they have something called commander's intent. So whenever there's a new mission or objective, the commanding officer, that leader, they will issue the why of the mission, the what of the mission, and the when of the mission. But they stay away from the how of the mission. So it'd be the same thing here. You'd say, hey, we need to address this sales issue. I'd love for you to spend the next week thinking about it and bring in your best thinking and thoughts on what we need to do in our meeting next week. So we still share commander's intent, the big goal and objective. We don't relinquish that. But the how, that's where we really push to them to author. So that's how we would set it up. - My suspicion and something mentioned in the book is the subordinate is going to have to struggle to transition into this role. They don't know exactly what's happening. As much as you can tell them, the subordinate is gonna say, well, what does this look like? What does this feel like? Well, what has your experience been with the people you coach and how they've coached their subordinates into changing their relationship with leadership? - Well, yeah, I think it's really interesting because I would say 60% of the time the leaders and the companies I'm working with, there is not a regular cadence of one-on-one communication. It's really very tactical or it's team meetings and there's not much of an agenda. So all the things that you read about that are the common stereotypes. So that even in and of itself, getting into that regular routine is a big change. And to Brandon's point, you've got to kind of tee that up with people. But I think it's really hard for leaders if they haven't been used to blocking time on their calendar every week to do that. Again, in this kind of hot sauce world where everything's urgent all the time, the idea of blocking this time on their calendar every week to have four one-on-one meetings with their direct reports is kind of a shock to the system, if you will. So that's already a big change. - We're, as we get closer to break here, we'll pick this up in a moment, but this is something I've highlighted on page 16 of the book. Brandon, I'm not sure any of the books I've written, anyone has ever highlighted, but this one is just full of highlights. Again, I have such a high esteem for what you've done. It reads this at the top of page 16, let me be clear, despite what you may have been led to believe, your issue is not time management, nor is your issue delegation or trust. You suffer from a seat problem. And with that as a cliffhanger teaser, we're gonna go to break. You're listening to what's working. I'm Cam Marston. I'm sitting with Wills Moore with the Jilitas Human Resource Consulting in Brandon Smith. He is the author of the author versus editor dilemma, as well as runs a business called The Workplace Therapist and many others. We'll be back with more right after this. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) This is Billy Step. I perfected my bakery recipe. Behind my live music stage, I'm a little restaurant in Fair Oop, Alabama. We have custom made smokers and small batch bacon, made just for you. If you're looking for the best bacon in America, that has been cured, smoked, and even serenaded by songwriters, you definitely need to try Billy's Small Batch Bacon. www.billyspaken.com. (upbeat music) We're back, you're listening to what's working. This show, if you don't already know, is about Workplace, Workforce and Marketplace trends, and I've got a good one on the line right now. Brandon is on the other side. Brandon Smith, the author of the book that I'm holding, the author versus editor dilemma, and sitting across from me is Will's More with the Jilitas Human Resources Consulting. Will's uses the book and his leadership consulting. Brandon is the author of the book and uses this concept in his own leadership consulting. Brandon, prior to the break, we talked about a cliffhanger. You suffer from a seat problem, not a time management problem. What does that mean? So when we talk about the seat problem, we're talking about the author and editor seats. And essentially what that is, is this. So the author seat is about doing, and the editor seat is a little more about leading, at least in the way that we write it with our direct reports. We think about it with our direct reports. So the seat problem is there's this tendency when things are urgent all the time to just jump into the business and start doing stuff. But we're not actually, well, it feels productive, we're not actually helping to lead our team. So the analogy I use often when I'm talking to leaders that are struggling with this, I said it, it sounds like you're trying to win a lot of MVPs. And a lot of my leaders are, they're MVP winners, they've got trophy case of MVPs. And I said, but as a leader, would you rather win an MVP and be on a losing team, or would you rather build a world championship? And that's what this is all about. This is about building a world championship, 'cause we've all seen those MVPs on losing teams, and no leader wants to be that. But the seat problem is there's this tendency, there's this feeling that when I'm out doing it, when I'm on the field running plays, it feels productive, and I can see the results of my work. That's what makes leadership hard. Hey, coach, you don't always get to see the immediate results of your work. You're planting seeds, you're setting a culture, you're calling plays, but if we do it well, it'll be win that world championship. I can relate to that somewhat. I don't feel, if I'm sitting there strategizing, I don't feel productive. I need my hands active to feel productive. However, I'm fully aware that those strategy times are very valuable times. And I'm a very small organization, and I feel like I didn't really do much today, 'cause my hands weren't busy. What you're saying is, those leaders who can manage to not keep their hands busy, instead turn it over to the people who can come up with perhaps some greater solutions in the leader camp, is where we should be headed. Correct, 100%. How do we initialize this? How do we start? We talked a little bit about that, but how does this work? So the starting place is this. First thing, as Will said, we need those one-on-ones. And then in the one-on-ones, you're gonna require that every one of your direct reports brings something for you to react to. At minimum, it's a status update, but it can be all the way into recommendations. Now, to let leaders know, this isn't gonna be a smooth transition for every member of your team. So typically when I'm working with leaders, if you've got five direct reports, two of them love the idea of being authors. They have got some ideas they've been wanting to share with you. It doesn't necessarily mean they're perfect on day one, but they're excited to bring you stuff. So those two are gonna come excited. There's two more are gonna watch what happens to the first two. Do they get rewarded? Is it a positive experience? And they're gonna come along a little more slowly. And then there's one or 20% of your direct reports that are gonna resist this. Because to author is to be vulnerable. To author is to be vulnerable. What if they give you an idea and you say to yourself, why did I hire this guy? That's their fear. So they're gonna try and flip the seats. So they're gonna say things like, I don't really understand. What are you really asking for? What would you do if you were me? I'm confused. They're gonna use language to try and flip the seats. And as a natural author, which most leaders are, we feel this compassion for that direct report. And we started answering the questions and pretty soon we're telling them what to do. But if done well, this really, really pushes them to bring up those ideas. And then it makes it a lot easier because the traits of the author are these three things. This is what we're trying to push into our direct reports. They take ownership, they show initiative, and they display critical thinking. And I can't think of one leader listening to this right now that wouldn't say, yes, I want that for my direct reports. Ownership, initiative, and critical thinking. - Wills is over here, head bobbing like a bobble head doll. Get in here, Wills, what are you hearing? - Well, I echo all that. And I think it's absolutely spot on. The two things I would add is going back to the very beginning of this. I think it's really tough for leaders to look in the mirror and really come to this conclusion. Or it's also very hard to change. You read all these things about creating new habits, forming a new habit. It's not something that happens overnight. You don't just read the book and then the next day the switch is flipped. The second thing is that I lost my train of thought. (laughing) Whatever it was gonna say, I was gonna be amazing, but I'll come back to you. - You're authoring for me. And at this point, I'm putting you in timeout. - Oh, I know, sorry. It is, we're in a time today unlike any other where people are so distracted and critical thinking is a lost art. And it's so hard for people to have that white space. And I think you just, I just can't say it enough and emphasize it enough with my clients is that that whole creativity and ownership and those kind of things that Brandon touched on is even more scary and kind of a lost commodity today. - Yeah. - And Kim, I love to jump in real quick because part of what leaders are listening to this, what we're suggesting on this call and what I'm suggesting in the book is not that leaders should be sitting up in their office, close the door and all they do is strategic thinking all day. No, no, no, no, no, no, you only need about 10% of your time to be dedicated to this white space and strategic thinking as a leader. So roughly half a day a week. All the rest of the time can be firefighting. All the rest of the time can be doing operational stuff, but we need to find this time and the same thing for your direct reports. So it doesn't have to be a lot, but Will's points an important one. We all need to be carving out some white space thinking time. - Let's react. Let's go into real quick. I have a subordinate who's embraced this. He or she is coming to me, authored something. And I'm thinking now, and Will's and I were talking about this prior to turning on the microphones, I just finished the biography of Steve Jobs, an extraordinarily volatile personality. We cannot deny the changes that he's made. I mean, he's been very, very successful, but he regularly berated his employees, brutally, call him stupid in front of their peers. I mean, he was firing people left and right. What is the, I'm the editor now. And I've come, a subordinate has come to me with something they've authored. I need to know how to treat this person because they've been vulnerable in their authoring process. Tell me how to react to their ideas, particularly the bad ones. - Damn, I love it. So it really important. This is where we can screw it up. I'm gonna state something obvious that every listener is gonna get. There's a difference between an editor or a coach, 'cause that's really what this is, and a critic. - Aha. - Critics only use the red pen. So as many of you have probably seen the movie, the Pixar movie, "Ratatouille." And in the movie, there's this great, he's a food critic, ego. - Love that movie. - He's kind of a nemesis in the movie. And he's got this great monologue at the end. And he says, being a food critic, critic really in general, he said, "It's fun." 'Cause you just beat up other people's work. He said, "But at the end of the day, it's really all about you." And so when we're redlining everything and beating up everybody else, it's really all about us. So the way we want to coach is we wanna borrow from our friends in improv theater. We wanna say, "Yes, and." Yes, I love this about what you brought me. And let's talk about this over here. I can see where you were going, but for a variety of reasons, it's not gonna work. Let's talk about it. Because the point of these conversations is to elevate the critical thinking of our direct reports. And with each one of these conversations, we move the needle a little further on their critical thinking. With the goal of them ultimately thinking just like we would to solve a problem so we don't have to. - Will's real quick before break, how have your editors, your leaders that you coach, learn to offer this feedback, this editing feedback, versus being a critic, being a coach? - It's really trial and error. I mean, they've, again, made the changes, put in place the meetings and then kind of, because I have the chance to work with them on an ongoing basis, we come back in debrief after a session, how did it go? What did they do wrong? I think going back to the very beginning of this, you can't be specific enough of what your expectations are. So it takes some time and practice. - Yeah, yeah. I've gotten in front of me, Will's more with the gelatinous. He was telling us about his client experience, and on the other side of a Zoom call is Brandon Smith. He's the workplace therapist. He's the president of the worksmiths. He's a co-founder of the Leadership Foundry, and most important to us today, he is the author of the book called The Author versus Editor Dilemma. You're listening to what's working. We'll be right back. (upbeat music) - This is Seth Churniak, Vice President of Branch Development for the Jeffrey Matthews Financial Group. If you are an experienced financial advisor wanting the freedom of independence, but aren't sure making that jump is right for you, we should talk. Jeffrey Matthews has developed a successful program for advisors who don't want to be 1099 contractors and don't want to pay for their own overhead. We're looking for advisors who want the freedom to run their business the way they see fit with the support that comes with a W-2 firm. If you're interested in joining one of our branches, or if you want to open your own branch as a full-time employee, let's chat. Our compensation plan is one of the most competitive among all W-2 firms, big or small. Reach out to us today at JeffreyMathews.com, connect with me, Seth Churniak on LinkedIn, or click the link in the podcast. - Jeffrey Matthews Financial Group, member FINRA, S-I-P-C. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - I'm Kim Marston, you're listening to what's working. I'm on a Zoom call with Brandon Smith. He's the author of the book called The Author Versus Editor Dilemma. I'm sitting across from Will's More. He runs a company called Agilitas Human Resources Consulting. We're talking about the lessons taught in Brandon's book, The Author Versus The Editor Dilemma. And Brandon, you told me, I feel like, in one of the earlier segments, that the leaders should author 20% of the time and edit 80% of the time. What is that 20% of the time, and what should that topic include? - So when we are authoring as leaders, it's really important because while we're editing and we're coaching our teams, there's still some things that only we can author, and there are two. First, we could call it strategy/priorities. So this is strategy with the Big S. This might be the goals for the quarter or the year. And it's strategy with a little less, which is priorities for the week. Our team lives in a noisy world, just like we do. Everything is urgent all the time. They need us to say, these are the three things to focus on this week. This is the one thing to focus on. So strategy/priorities, we need to make sure we're communicating that, and communicating those weekly. The second one is culture. So our team can't set the culture. It's up to us as the leaders to set it and model it and reinforce it. And if you examine and study any of the great cultures in business, whether we talk about Chick-fil-A or small mom and pops, or other organizations that are known for having them, they're always talking about values and the principles of that culture weekly. So that 20% is really critical that we're authoring those two things, strategy/priorities and culture. And we're making time to talk about those on a weekly basis. And if we take away doing the work and we allow our team to do that, then that's where we find that time. - Culture has become a big subject matter in my world post-COVID. I don't know why, but it's always been important, but post-COVID it seems like it's leapt forward. I think people are in this show, discuss this culture a lot. People are becoming more aware of it. It's a recruiting and hiring tool. It's a retention tool. How do we keep, and Will's, let's toss this one to you, how do we keep culture interesting to the employees? Because if you, it sounds like if you repeat it too much, if it becomes too much of a mantra, it becomes something like it's, and I hesitate to use this example, but people can stand up and say the Pledge of Allegiance and not think about it at all. They just know it and say it. It's like some of the prayers I was taught in Catholic school. You could just require it and you would compete over who could say I'm quickest, very little value to the prayer. How do we make culture important every day? And how does it relate to this author versus editor dilemma? - Yeah, so there is a recent statistic that only 20% of employees today are bought into their company's culture. So it's a huge opportunity for leaders and for companies that do it well to hire and retain great talent. I think you have to start with really understanding what is your culture. People, sometimes their eyes glaze over when you start talking about it. They're warm and fuzzy or whatever, ping pong table and birthday cakes and so forth. Culture, there's a lot more to that, but it's also very tangible and measurable. And so I think you start with really quantifying and understanding what it is in your organization and then building on that. So I think that it can be, there are lots of different ways you can touch it. Back to Brandon's weekly comment, there's again, if you understand that there are 10 different things to go into making up our company's culture, then maybe one of those or two of those a week is what you're touching on. - How do you make it interesting, Brandon? How do you make it exciting for the person to stay keyed in on the culture? You're the author, you're the leader, you author 20% of the time. One of the things you author in that 20% is the company culture. How do you make that interesting? - Him, we tell stories. - Hmm, that's it. So once you've got your set of values that you know are critical to your business, it's both how you want your team to operate, but also how you want them to treat customers. It's really important when you think about culture. It's not just about inside the four walls. Great cultures have a connection to their customers. The values are shared by our customers. Once you've got that set, then you as a leader need to be sharing a story, if not weekly, very regularly about that. So on another project I was working on, I interviewed Frank Blake. He's the retired CEO of Home Depot. And he talked about this. He said, when he came in after Bob Nardelli, Bob Nardelli had gutted the culture. - Yeah. - Recognizes one of the top five worst CEOs for culture in particular. - G guy, there's stories there. But please continue. - Oh my goodness, so many stories came. That's a whole other show. So Frank came in and he said immediately, first thing he started doing was having calls with all like the regional directors to find stories at the store level. And every week he would share a story about some associate helping a customer in some store. Every week, every week, because he really wanted to emphasize the importance of that connection and that relationship and that level of service. - Yeah. - So it's telling the stories that reinforce the values. That's how you make it sticky. That's how you make it real. - And you do it every week, every week. - If you can, if that doesn't work for your business, what matters most is consistency in a rhythm. - Yeah. - If you have a town hall with your business every month and then you bring in pizza, it's a small business, then talk about it then. But there needs to be a regular rhythm and cadence to tell stories about your culture. - Excellent. Let's transition real quick. We're coming up on the end of segment four. And you told me, Brandon, prior to turning the microphones on, the most volatile chapter in the book that you wrote was the one on parenting. Much of my work outside of this radio show is working with organizations to help them recruit and retain people, particularly young people. I spend the week in California next week doing this with the hospital system. And their complaints are next generation this, next generation that, this claim are using mental health, weaponizing mental health in their hospital system. There's a lot of things at this and there's a lot of disparagement about what we're today calling Gen Z. You in your book touch on author versus editor from a parenting point of view. I'm just gonna give you the cue, go. - Okay, so author editor is a vertical tool, works in any vertical relationship. It works at home with your kiddos, okay? So if the goal is to get your kiddos, to be fully functioning adults ready to take on the world, pay their own bills, positive contribution in society, not living in your basement, if that's the goal, the parents to get their quicker, they shift from the author seat to the editor's seat sooner. So they, in the tween and teen years, they start to push their kids and say, all right, make your own lunches for school, do your own laundry, handle your own discussions with your teachers, don't bring me in. In fact, even get a part-time job. This is gonna be a key to this whole thing that you're mentioning, Cam. In the 1990s, in the United States, 70% of high school students in the United States had a part-time job at some point in their high school career. The next time the study was done was 2018, prior to the pandemic, that number had dropped to 30%. - Yeah. - This is a significant problem, because when we get them to take those high school jobs, they start to learn ownership, initiative, and critical thinking. And please do not confuse a job with volunteer activities. Many parents do that, volunteer activities, train the wrong things. They train the kiddo that they are most important and they have all the power. They can attend a meeting or not, 'cause they're a volunteer, and they're gifting their time to you. But employees, they clean toilets, they have to deal with really customers. They learn a lot of those skills. So one of the things I coach even hiring managers and recruiters, do you want a tricky, fun question to ask? Ask that young Gen Z. Tell me about your first job you ever had. - Yeah. - If they can tell a job about working at Jersey Mikes or working at McDonald's or something, when they're 16, that's a good sign. If they turn to you and say, well, this is actually gonna be my first job. That's a red flag. - Yeah, yeah. - Because you're likely gonna have mom or dad calling to follow up on this conversation. - So true. - So it's just a good way for you to think about how to make sure you're setting the seats properly. - Excellent. Will's, before we wrap up, one final comment and how they can find you. What's the biggest takeaway from you on this study, this book? - I think it's, obviously it's incredibly valuable and simple. It's very, very hard for leaders to implement and be self-aware. So it's something they really got a double down on. - How can they find you? - A Gelatose Human Resources Consulting, I'm on LinkedIn, or you can find me 404-86-36511 as my cell phone. - Very good. I'll have all that in the podcast notes brand and how do people find you? - Very simple. They can Google the workplace therapist. I'm the only one. So if you Google that, you'll find me that way. Or you can Google the work Smiths, just like blacksmiths, but the work Smiths with an S. I'm on LinkedIn and many other social media platforms. But those will be the easiest ways to find me. - And you can find the author versus editor dilemma on Amazon. That's where I got mine. And gentlemen, thank you both so much for your time. It's been a wonderful show. Folks, I'll be back in one minute with segment five. We'll tell you what I heard and what we need to do. (upbeat music) - I'm Joey Mason. For four years, my goal has been to produce the best farm-to-table products I've ever eaten. I've done just that at our own site, USDA Facility in Grand Bay, Alabama, allowing us to ship directly to your door. This is true farm-to-table. Visit us at masonheelsfarm.com to see all that we have to offer. (upbeat music) - We're back. You're listening to What's Working. I'm Cam Marston. We're now into segment five of the show. If you're a regular listener, you know, this is the segment where I repeat what I heard, emphasize the things that I found interesting and perhaps queue us up for future shows. What did I hear in this show? What did you hear in this show that stood out to you? As if you're a leader in the workplace and you fit the mold of most leaders, then you feel like you're successful. You feel like you're productive when you're doing the work. However, you exponentially increase your ability to lead and get stuff done. The more you can push the creative jobs of getting the work done into your team members, whose job it is. Many of those team members come to us and say, I don't know what to do, tell me what to do. Or even worse, I don't know what to do, show me what to do. I can relate to this. As a child, my father would say hypothetically, hey, I need you to sweep out the garage. And I'd look at him and say, you know, I'm not sure how to do this. I'm not a good sweeper. Why don't you show me? And I'd stand back and my father would sweep the garage. And I sat there thinking, now that was clever of me. That's Tom Sawyer, White Washing the Fence, if you get that reference. However, what this book teaches you, what Brandon Smith writes in this book, what Will's More teaches in his consulting is the way to get that leader to exponentially improve his ability to lead by pushing the responsibility to the teammates, by telling them, come to me at a weekly meeting with something that I can react to. I'm gonna tell you what's important, and I'm gonna edit it and tell you what's important and where your priorities should be. I'm gonna emphasize again what our company culture is through the stories told, and I'm gonna tell you what the priorities and the urgency of this organization are. Other than that, I'm leading it to you to get the job done. And in this process, I heard, you're gonna find people that are really willing to do so, that are eager to step up, you're gonna find people that don't know how to react, you're gonna watch those around them, and probably in a disappointing way, but a very important way, you're gonna find people who are in chairs of leadership in your organization or responsibility in your organization who shouldn't be there, who can only do their job if they're told exactly what to do. And in time, this book goes into saying, we didn't discuss it on the show, those people will likely self-select out. They do not have the ability to author. They can only take direction. This book is used by many people. I've had a handful of people here in Mobile come up to me and talk to me about this book. How important it is, it's called the Author Versus the Editor Dilemma. I wanna thank Brandon, and I wanna thank Will's for contributing their time, and I like this idea of a book report. I like this idea of being able to talk to these authors, and have them instruct us on the tactics of utilizing the ideas in their book. Maybe we'll give it a try again. If you know of a book out there that's truly changed the way you lead in your workplace, please email me, cam@cammarston.com. All the links to these guys, to both Will's and Brandon, will be in the podcast notes. You can find it at what'sworkingcam.com. That'll wrap us up. Have a good week, everybody. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) As you likely know, this show originates as a radio show, broadcast across the state of Alabama, and it continues to grow in both radio listeners and market. After it's formatted for radio, we then turn it into this podcast. Please share it with those you think would find it interesting, and subscribe to the podcast on my YouTube page, where you can leave messages and your thoughts in your comments, and I'll certainly get back in touch. Finally, if you're a fan of the show, please offer a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify. You can find my book called What Works on Amazon.com. In it, I highlight the top 10 ideas from the first 200 episodes of the show. Mind you, they're not the top 10 best episodes. They're the top 10 best ideas. Many times the same ideas are brought up again and again by different guests, and we dig into those ideas in such a way that they'll be easily applicable for your business. Simply go to Amazon and enter my name, and you'll find What Works as well as my other books. Chapter titles include How to Find an Itch, Innovation, Building Teams, and so forth. To learn more about the workshops and seminars I offer, go to cammarston.com. There you can view clips of my work, view workshop titles, view my reviews, case studies, customer lists, it's all there. If you'd like a free copy of one of the chapters of my book, enter your email address at the bottom of the homepage at cammarston.com. And from that side, you can email me directly. I always love to hear from you. You'll also find me on social media, find cammarston on all the social media platforms, and you may need to enter the numeral one. There's one other cammarston out there, and that numeral one distinguishes me from him from time to time. So if you're unsure, if it's me or not, enter that numeral one after my name and it should do the trick. I'm on a more personal and less professional side. I record weekly commentaries that air across Alabama on Alabama public radio twice each day on Fridays called keeping it real. They've won statewide and national awards. They're simple observations on the world as it goes on around me, and they're only a few minutes long. They're a passion. You can find them on the same podcast app you're using to listen into this. Finally, if you're interested in advertising on this podcast or the radio show, reach out. I've worked hard to cultivate a specific listener, and I can tell you all about 'em and I have many different options for helping you reach in 'em. Thanks again for listening. We'll have another episode available soon.