Today we speak with Madeline Link aka Packs about the phenomenon that was Talk To Me, the A24 film that could and then did. We speak about Packs' latest album and what exactly attracts Madeline to the depths of the macabre.
A Year In Horror
Talk To Me (2023) w/ Packs
[Music] It's fear. Every you think it's going fall asleep. [Music] It's that time once again yeah we get to delve into a mid-month musical bit of madness that is a year in horrors. Other stuff. The other stuff that I do. The other things that I like to get involved with. It's not the regular Big Hit Show where I delve into one particular year and then I just chow down on every horror film rated 6 out of 10 or above on Letterboxed. It's not that. It's not the Patreon channel where every month I had at least four new shows for the horror plot where we discuss the video nasties and cheap thrills and amateur veal and nicks pics and low nose, whole nose and a ton of other stuff. It's not that either. No. What we've got here is the coolest music that I'm into and I mould that musical taste into a horror shaped podcast. It's well easy. I'm just getting in touch with an artist that I'm listening to and if they do like horror movies then we chat about it. It's that simple. If they don't like horror movies things get pretty nasty. I won't go into that. So today please welcome to the show Madeline Link aka Pax. I utterly fell in love with this latest record of hers. It's an album called Melt the Honey which came out in January of this year. It's just so good. It's so great. It's kept me company on so many walks and more on that shortly in our chat. What movie did she choose though? Well as you can see from the poster and the title of this episode the film that she chose to speak about with me is Talk To Me. Now this film was so hyped and a massive success for A24 but before I saw it I had heard that it was like an allegory for peer pressure and drug use. I'd even heard and rather should we say spoiled let's call it what it is here. I'd even heard about the potential sequel baiting ending scene so the internet can do that sometimes when there's a bit of hype it's difficult. It's just difficult to ignore and I guess to avoid. That's a better word. Avoid. Anyway here's that at a box synopsis. When a group of friends discover how to conjure spirits using an embalmed hand they soon become hooked on the new thrill until one of them goes too far and unleashes terrifying supernatural forces. Now regarding this film we cover most of the rest of it so take a chill, sit down, relax. It's time for Talk To Me. Film it. I heard it was a hand of a Satanist. Can I have a go? That was the best one! Yeah! I've been seeing stuff. What the hell? I don't know! We're just fucking minds of that. Die act, come on! I want to put it in the door but then it's... we don't shut it. Melt The Honey is an album that I'm just coming back to again and again and again and again. Very rarely will a new record just get under my skin like that. So I read a little bit about it and it said that it was recorded in Mexico, right? Is there a story behind it? We recorded it in Mexico in this house called Casapulpo and it's this house that is shaped like an octopus and there's no straight lines like no straight walls in the house. It's like very curvaceous and it's a weird weird place. There was like a cow and a horse in the backyard. It was like we just wanted to have a nice relaxing time while recording instead of being stressed out and feeling like we had some sort of time constraints. Is it important to you when you've got this set of songs together, the track listing, the like picks for like the lead singles, does that sort of stuff bother you? Like having to decide that? Yeah, yeah. Are you like really intricate with like, right, I want the album to be shaped this way and this song can't go out until the album's release etc. I feel like the label has much more of a huge opinion about it. So when they were like, we want these to be the singles, like me and my bandmates, there was one, I think one of them where we were like, shouldn't this song be a single? Or like, shouldn't this song be the first single? But all of us are kind of so like, I don't know, relaxed that we were just like, yeah, like if they wanted to be the single, there must be some like secret industry thing that they know about that we don't know about. I think like in an alternate world tripping, it'd be like a huge number one smash. Like it's so infectious, it's ridiculous. Yeah, and I was just like, if I'd written that, I'd be like, no, this has to be my lead off, you know. And then like when I spoke to speak to my wife about it, she was like, what are you talking about? That would never be a lead. So yeah, I don't know, it just works differently. Yeah, there's some things that I can definitely be more adamant about. But yeah, that's funny that you would see tripping as a lead single, I like that. Ah, it's just as I was saying, infectious, like under your skin sort of thing. Once it's in there, there is just no cheese to it. That's the cool thing about it. The industry sort of standard. And I've worked in music management and to be as prolific as you are, is weird. Like, you must know this and yet you don't care. You're just like, like, two albums this year. Like, what's going on next year? Like, what is it with you? Like, how many songs are in you? Um, there were a lot for that period of time for, I think mainly because I was like, I was living by myself. Like, and I was kind of, I was living with my parents living with my, by myself. And I had, like, so much alone time. And I was so unhappy. So it all conflagrated together to mean that I had, like, so much time to just, like, pretty much every single spare moment that I had, I would be able to either workshop a song that I was working on the day before. Or, like, be like, okay, I'm done with that little nugget. And like, I'm never going to do anything with it. Now I'm going to just, like, it was kind of like an uninterrupted, like, I don't know, year or maybe more than a year of, like, being in the zone. Right. So, so yeah, like, and now, like, I have to get back in the zone in order to, like, put, put, like, I just wrote my first song, like, a week ago that in like a year, because I was, yeah. Like, with this album coming out in January, there is definitely room later on in the year for a new album, right? Definitely. July. Yeah. It was a king gizzard in the Lizard Wizard, like, doing, like, four albums a year and things. Honestly, they're kind of, like, an inspiration in that way. And, like, Mac to Marco kind of, like, I mean, they obviously have tons of, like, label support, and they, they're already huge to be able to, like, just be making music all the time. But, like, for example, like, the latest king gizzard album, I'm like, I don't know about that one, but, like, I'm happy that you put it out anyway. Like, you're just... What about the latest Mac to Marco almost, like, two hundred songs or something? Oh, my God. It's so funny. And, and honestly, it's relaxing. It's like, just put it on and... I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's cool. I like it, but, you know, it's not a pace that I would, like, it's not a pace that I find to be necessary. Like, it's only necessary if you have all that stuff in you that has to come out. And then, if it's not necessary anymore, and you're not feeling like that backlog, then it's like, okay, you can chill. Yeah. I'm sort of, like, glad that you've not written for a while, because there is, listening this afternoon as I was to your back catalogue for the very first time, you can definitely see, right, oh, this song feels like it's on that album. And, yeah, it was when I looked at it was like, oh, yeah. So, so, so, I'm getting the feel of these things and I hate, like, the next project to sound just like this one. But at the same time, I sort of do want it as well. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you mean. All right. Okay. So, before we get into horror, I'm going to put poses to you. If a producer of a sequel for Talk to Me, they are approaching you tonight. And the label gives you complete blessing. You've got to choose one track from your back catalogue for one of the seance scenes. What one are you going to choose? Oh, a back catalogue. So, it can't be from any of the albums that I've released with them or it can be anything that you've ever recorded. Um, I mean, okay. So, this is maybe the only song that you didn't like is the one that I would choose. I think it's called second grade. I think it was. Yeah. It was really. Yeah. It's a creepy, like, I don't know. There's some songs that I write that have a creepy vibe, but my sister kind of like makes fun of me for having that, like, sinister edge sometimes. And so, I try not to let it seep through too often, but like new TV sort of has that creepy vibe, but yeah, probably second grade. Okay. I will. Not reluctantly. I'll get used to it. I'll play it right here and then we're going to get into horror. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Okay. Yeah. This is the horror part of the show and it's my favorite question I ask, like, all my favorite artists. So, do you have a history with horror movies? If so, where did it begin? Um, I love watching horror movies. I wouldn't say I have, like, a robust history, but I know the first horror movie I watched inadvertently was when my parents were watching killer clowns from outer space. It's wild. And they're so crazy, but yeah, I think I just couldn't sleep one night and I went into the living room and they were watching this scene where a guy grabs, like, a piece of cotton candy from this huge thing of cotton candy. And there's this, like, red clown's face behind the cotton candy. And I was like, what the? And it was super creepy, but the first film that I can, like, remember consciously being like, okay, I'm ready to watch this scary movie was when a stranger calls. Wow. Okay. Yeah. And what was that sort of, like, school time? Was that, like, when you were school? Or was it a bit later on? Yeah, yeah, it was, like, it was out of sleepover. We had the, um, you know, the DVD store. And yeah, like, I think I was probably in grade four, so I was like nine or something. And it was really freaking scary. It was like a horrifying movie. Oh, yeah, that whole opening is just still today. It's like chilling. So well executed. Yeah, love it. What's the opening? I don't remember. I was nine. It's the phone calls. I set up calls. Oh, you just don't know what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Okay. All right. Okay. So I gave you a list. And I said, avoid all this noise and choose something else. And you went for talk to me. And I was like, I haven't seen it since I come out. Lovely. And I got to watch it last night. And yeah, it's still really effective. Um, when did you first catch this one? Okay. So my sister is much more of a horror aficionado than I am. My aunt as well. My aunt, like her, they bond over horror in an insane way. They're obsessed, both of them. And so my sister, like whenever we want to watch a scary movie, I'll be like, Eva, what do we watch? And she'll send like four different amazing movie suggestions. And so, yeah. So one of them was talk to me and we watched it in this house that we were staying in. That was like, it had, it wasn't our house. We were, it was like, there were creepy masks on the wall. It was like a big house. And we had a candle going while we were watching it. And it was so, so freaky. It was in like October, but I just watched it today, actually, just to like refresh my memory. But yeah, like, yeah, after we watched the movie, we both were getting nightmares. Me and my boyfriend. So we're just like, um, we have to like stop watching. Oh, yeah, I think the next movie we watched was Paddington. Because you're like, we need to start having some nice thoughts before bed. Well, yeah, there's a company that has started getting all of those out of sort of out of copyright characters, like Paddington and Pooh Bear and all that. And they're just creating them as horror movies. And yeah, yeah, so you've got all these creatures that you used to love in your youth, like Pinocchio or whatever, like that you grew up with. And they're just like massacre in the weird scene, weird scene. Is that like AI thing? No, no, it's proper films. Yeah, with proper releases. Oh, that doesn't seem right. Correct answer. Oh, this film, we've got the intro, where we don't know these characters, or we're just going straight in blind, a guy's going into a house party. Now, I'm Australian, and I remember this from like the older kids across the road and what those house parties sort of things would be like. And I just remember like, just, oh man, they sound so cool. Like they were playing kiss really loud and things like this, you know, and it was like those party guys across the road. And I always wondered what it would be like. And here it is on the screen. And yeah, I really like that moment. Although it ends in instant tragedy, where we've got like an instant kill. We don't know what's done it. And like the guy's killed his brother that's there to save him. It's a pretty powerful intro, right? Yeah, it, like you saying that that you're, you were always like wondering what the, what the like older kids parties were like that you could hear from across the street. Like it, I feel like the first scene like hits, it hits every, every viewer in like a, like a kind of pure spot of either like yearning to go to the party and be cool. Or like, you know, oh, I remember when I would go to these parties and like, oh, I would just like, those are the best parties of, you know, of high school, like where nothing matters. And like, yeah, like I was, I've never been to a party of that magnitude, I don't think, but I was like, damn, like, that looks like a fun party. And I feel like it sets the tone for the whole movie because the whole movie is like just trying to fit in. Well, that's the crux of this film. It's, for me, it was after puberty's like, right, what am I going to do with my life? I need to have fun before I die. That's all you think. Yeah. And yeah, I would be going to, to parties, trying to meet girls, like getting as drunk as I could. And yeah, and it, that peer pressure just like is infectious. It's infectious. You do it to people, so you're not alone. And they do it to you, so they're not alone. And I think this is such a great representation of that. I mean, it's quite on the nose, but it really works. Yeah. Did you ever sort of find yourself in those sorts of situations growing up? Like, there was that peer pressure? Were you an instigator in these things? No, no, not really. Like the only real, maybe instigator vibes I had was we would, we shot this like movie. So throughout like when we were in 11th grade and I would be bringing the camera around and be like, guys, let's shoot a scene. Let's shoot a scene now. And it would be like, I don't know if this is the right place. Like we're in the middle of them all. Like it's, we're going to be looking like weirdos. And I was like, guys, I'll just do what happens. Um, but it wasn't, it definitely wasn't to, to be cool. It was like. That sounds like top nerdism. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. This film goes down that path in a major way to where, like, I think for me, like the key scene, and I'll ask you if you agree that this is your key scene for it or if you've got another. But for me, it's when the brother, the younger brother, and again, peer pressure, he doesn't really want to do it, but he does do it. And then it just escalates out of control. I don't think I've seen something so visceral, so violent and escalate so quickly for a long, long time. Yeah, it was like, it's hard to watch. Like it's one of those things that makes sure every, like, you know, part of your body, just be like, it reminded me of the scene in hereditary when he's the, the older brother is like, looking out the window and he sees something. And then he smashes his head on his desk. That's like, that was a horrific moment for me that, like, that sort of, like, snapped, like, self-inflicted violence, like, in, like, a few states, that is, like, kind of the most horrific, like, beginning of the horror. I've watched that in the cinema, and the whole crowd, like, gasped, people were screaming just from that little scene. And I thought, oh, what a success. And I didn't expect it to ramp up like it did after that. But yeah, it was just like, such a, again, another, again, visceral is a real good word for it. It's like, you don't expect it, and it's so much. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So we've talked to me, like, maybe take that bit out of the picture. Is there another scene, another moment that you think, like, this is a key part of the film? Oh, I mean, the montage, I love the montage before that happens. Like, I forget what the song is, but it's like a fun, funky, like, remix. And it's everyone's like, I don't know, it's like, these totally disparate social parts are, like, all getting together and having fun. And you're like, yeah, even if it's at the cost of, like, everyone's mental health and safety. Like, I'm happy for these kids and, like, hopefully nothing bad happens. But obviously something bad had to happen. But yeah, I like, I like, in a horror movie, if there's, like, an equal, equal amounts of, or maybe not equal. But like, if there's a little, a little piece of, like, fun, at least. Well, it is fun. It's, it looks like such fun. I remember going to parties and the internet was only just the thing. Like, we got our first emails or something. I couldn't imagine of, like, filming someone doing something disgusting, like, French kissing a dog and then putting it up on the internet. Knowing that that's out there, I would never go to a party these days. I would never be in the internet. Oh, my God. Yeah, I can't imagine being in high school right now. Like, oh, one of the other key scenes that I thought was so, so good was, like, the, the, the use of phones. Like, in the beginning of, like, the friend always being on her phone. It's like, so, you can, like, feel the irritation. Like, come on. But then also the, the representation of, I don't know if it's Snapchat or Instagram or whatever, but the videos that she's seeing over her friend's shoulder of the people getting possessed. That is, like, so, it was, it's so effective because everyone's like, ah, it's not real. Yeah, it's real. No, I don't know. But it's, like, done really well. Yeah. And of course, watching that, you're going to go, let's try it. Let's see. Yeah. Yeah. And it looks kind of cool. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. And here's the question that I, right, I cannot wait to ask you, have you're in that situation? Would you join in? Probably. That's great. Would you ever know that? Why not? My friends once brought, I was living in a house full of my friends and one of them brought in a Ouija board. I was like, no, nothing to do with it. It's just something, I've watched too many horror films. Maybe that's it. I don't know, but that's true, actually. That's a good point. I mean, if someone, because if someone brought a Ouija board over, I would be like, no, no, no, no, no. But like, I'm like, if I was living in that world where, where like, it looks so fun. Like, Ouija boards don't actually look that fun because everyone's just moving for 10 to move the things with their hands and being like, oh, he said hi. Like, this is more intense. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying no to both. But good for you. Good for you. Thank you. Oh, my word. Okay. So, like, you've, you've really watched this today, you said it. Okay. So, when you were watching it, was there anything that didn't work? I mean, this film's only a year old now. So, as I said, for me, it was still really effective, but was there anything that sort of took you out of it at all? The only thing that took me out of it was like, when they go to visit Duckett, the brother. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, we need to find out, like, more information about the hand. And they're like, let's go to him. And they all arrive at the bus stop. Like, how did you guys all know he was there? It's a straight one. And then also, like, jumping on the bus and not paying. That's a crazy talk. So you are, you're Australian. You grew up in Australia. So, you have to pay for the bus in Australia. Yeah. Well, it's a little tap. Okay. Yeah. Same as anywhere, right? As far as I know. Yeah. Let's get into bus politics right now. Yeah. Like, as I said, I think, like, things like that. And I like, you do think about them, but like, I think the film is so effective that, like, I'm willing to give it a definite pass. Like, as I say, I've watched so many of these things when one actually affects me. And there's several things it do. Like, even with the, like, the mother's killing herself, and things like that, that still, like, sets you up for, like, this weird tone, this weird feel that you're getting throughout the whole film, just because that's hanging over the whole thing. Is that her mom at the end? You know, was it ever her mom? Like, there's all these questions. I think I'm pretty positive that it was never her mom because the spirits that come only, no, but she's a spirit at the end. Well, I had the feeling that, like, they were mostly malevolent, like, always. And, and if they don't, like, yeah, but it's tough because she, like, the ending is her being a spirit and, like, who knows if she would be, like, she would become an evil spirit. Like, because, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and well, that's a sort of great thing that I love about, like, when a film ends, and I'm still thinking about it, and like, something like that that isn't a definite answer. I love that sort of thing because it'll make me want to go back and see if I can pick it apart. It's just part of, like, the way I am about things. Let's talk about this sequel. Are you interested in, in seeing talk to me? Oh, I don't think I would be, like, first in line at the theater, mainly because, I don't know, I've gone to see horror movies at the theater before. And it kind of irritates me, the, the, some people are nervous for watchers, so they're laughing, like, other people are, like, yelling and being like, what are you going to do next? Like, kind of making a show out of it for themselves, because they're scared, like, there's something about going to see horror films that's like no holds barred, where it's like other movies people just like, watch the movie. I'm sort of blessed with the job that I've got where I get to go to press screenings and things like that, and it's a completely different audience, but we mentioned her editor earlier, and there were a couple laughing. I was so nervous towards the end where, you know, everything, all the chips flying, it was all crazy. They're just laughing because it's so surreal, and they're, you know, you don't want to be scared to, like, you say you find a way to, like, ease your being primed. Yeah, totally took me out of the moment because they're giggling, I really hate it, it's so right, it's annoying, it's so bad. It's annoying, it's fun. And that happened, I saw Smile, like, while we were on tour, and I was like, I thought it was genuinely a horrifying movie, but my bandmates were really laughing and being like, this is so silly. How do you guys not find this to be absolutely horrifying? Yeah. And, okay, with Smile, I saw some, like, okay, when she first, when she first gets possessed, Leah, like, and she starts smiling, I was like, ooh, this reminds me of Smile. And then later, she kicks the hand, like, when she's upset with the hand and she has it in her room, and there's, like, Sanskrit writing on it, and so I looked up, what's the Sanskrit say? Do you know what it says? No, no, I don't. Smile! Wow. Shut up. And stop smiling. Yeah, it was like, damn, I feel like they were referencing Smile. That's freaky. Now, you're making things worse. There's like a horror movie cabal where they're all going to start being, like, in the same universe. I'd tell you that that Smile had, like, the most fantastic press campaign with just people at sports events, smiling. Really? Yeah, they're just in their crowd, and just smiling next to umpires with that, like, huge grin. Oh, my God. That's sort of such a good album. I would go and see that film, and I did, so, yeah, it got me. Yeah. Oh, it's subtle. Okay. All right. Thank you so much for coming on, but before you go, before you go, Madeline, what's coming up? And, like, I know you can't give titles, you've said you've only started writing again, but in all seriousness, do you think you'll get another album out this year? Maybe we'll write one, but I don't think we'll put it out. Right. Okay. Yeah, like, I think we're all eager to be writing songs together. But I want to have, in all honesty, I want to have an accordion, and maybe a trumpet and maybe a flautist. Oh, there was some great keys, right, on this one. Thank you. That's my boyfriend. Oh, is it? They're awesome. Like, it really, like, I think it's really early on, isn't it? Yeah, like, when they come, come along, because I listen to things on shuffle all the time, terrible way to be, but that's the way I am. And, yeah, like, they're so refreshing, so lively. And, yeah, oh, yeah, nice. Yeah, I love 60s garage rock keyboard. I want that to still be a sound in the next record. And I want, like, 60s Cambodian funk also to be an influence for us. I mean, how could you not? Yeah. Very vital thing. The UK. I know it's expensive. Like, are you going to be able to come over at some point soon? I hope so. Like, this year would be nice. Yeah, it would. Yeah. I love the way this interview is going. Yeah, like, it's done. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. [Music] Alright, many, many, and also many thanks to Madeline Link there for coming on to the show. Chat with us about her music and about talk to me. Now, as you've probably noticed, I do have a lot of, like, heritage artists, artists that are personal favourites of mine from my youth, whatever, things like that. But I also do love having modern artists on, like, fresh fruit from rotting vegetables, right? So hit me up at yearinhorror@gmail.com. If you like this sort of approach that I'm taking, like, introducing maybe new bands to you, if you like that sort of thing, I can continue on that way, or I can continue doing what I used to do and still do. I'll do whatever you like, really, because I love it all. Anyway, hit the links up for her in the show notes. Check out PAX, whatever you do. I love PAX. PAX is PAX. If you are missing any great big horror-shaped hole in your life, may I volunteer the yearinhorror patreon channel? Can I do that for you? It is the very lifeblood of the show, and until next time, stay hungry. That's a Twisted Sister song. [MUSIC PLAYING] [BLANK_AUDIO]