[music playing] You know what the most private thing in the world is? It's fear. Every year things don't fall asleep. [music playing] [music playing] [music playing] [music playing] [music playing] [music playing] So this is it, part eight of eight. We have torn through eight episodes over two months. The complete rundown of the section one video, Nasties, the prosecuted titles. Also, between the interview segments, there are various clips from an incredibly important documentary to me. And to history, I guess, which is actually an episode from the BBC series Open Space. In Open Space, the public makes their own programming under their own editorial control. It's something that happened, it did. It's an episode called Suitable for Viewing in the Home from 1984. This gives some detailed context to pretty much all the conversations that are happening in this episode and all the previous episodes as well. So let's jump back into the final four. [music playing] But before down, let me give you this rundown of the top ten. Let's do that. So at number ten, I placed Absurd, aka Monster Hunter. At nine, I spit on your grave, aka Day of the Woman. At eight, the house on the edge of the park. At seven, ten, and Bray. At six, The Cannibal Man, aka The Week of the Killer. At five, The Driller Killer. Now, as I've mentioned in the episodes previous, my top ten, I think, is... all essential. All essential. Video nasties or not. There is a weird thing about this episode, though. It's not that weird to me, but it might be to you. We're running down numbers four to one, and oddly, all these conversations that were had were with my good pal Graham Bywater, every one of them. Somehow, our tastes seem pretty close. What I did was I gave all the guests a choice of which films to watch, and that's the ones that Graham chose, and they happen to be my very favorites. So let's count down the rest of the charts, see what I've placed at number one. What do I think is the best successfully prosecuted video nasties? Well, starting at number four, I've placed Cannibal Fairocks from 1981. I love that I rate this one so high in spite of everything going against it. It is a knock-off. We've seen these things before, yet it's done so well. It makes me feel incredibly wrong for placing it so high. Wrong for even watching it, but yeah, let's dig in. The following feature is one of the most violent films ever made. There are at least two dozen scenes of barbaric portions and sadistic cruelty, graphic mission. The presentation of this discussion and both of subject matter accepts you. Please do not do this for me. Time! [music playing] [screaming] Let us out of here! This is enough! [music playing] So here is that little box synopsis. Three friends are out to disprove Cannibalism. They make two men that are on the run who tortured an enslaved to Cannibal tribe just to find emeralds. And now that tribe is out for revenge. So if you listened to the most recent video nasty episode on Patreon, you'll know that we had Graham Bywater from the band's possessor, and Torso, he was on here discussing the big daddy of Cannibal movies, Cannibal Holocaust. Today, we're going to continue that conversation as we delve into another biggie. So yeah, let's do Cannibal Fair Ops. [music playing] [music playing] Now, this is a very similar movie and it's a very different movie. And again, just like one of the final points you made with Cannibal Holocaust, it has an age and I think very much jungle fashion is just jungle fashion in it. It's not coming back in the same scene. Seriously. What a strange genre. I mean, other than the Nazi's exploitation, is that the Nazi's? I don't know, you say that. Other than those films, it came and went, isn't it? And it's never been. Right. I mean, we said Green Inferno, but that was a one off that didn't really do it for me, but you're never going to get an artsy film again, aren't you, these days? I haven't started watching them. I'll start watching them. I will. We'll go into one. We'll choose one to talk. They're not as extreme as you think. Once you've realized that they're just so stupid. Cannibal Farrocks. I can't wait to watch one of these Nazi films. Oh, God. Thing to say. Right. Okay. Cannibal Farrocks. A year later, I don't know a lot about the ins and outs of this one. I've just know the film pretty well. I've seen it again three times. It's similar plot, but this time we have female character, main protagonist, who is out to prove that cannibalism is something that actually doesn't happen. And can we please just leave these indigenous tribes alone and stop trying to other them? Okay. So that's the sort of starting point. And then part of her thesis, she goes out there to prove this. There we go. What's your history with Cannibal Farrocks? Well, for those of you who listened to the Cannibal Holocaust one, I got Cannibal Farrocks by mistake. I was meant to be getting Cannibal Holocaust. So I actually saw it first. So that's an interesting way of looking at it. Cannibal Farrocks is a really naughty film. It's a nasty, naughty, kind of bastard of a film, isn't it? Correct. It's a bad film. It's not as shocking. It's not as disturbing, but it just makes you feel like I've done something wrong watching that. I shouldn't have just sat down and watched that. And the acting, I think, is, I mean, you know, it's not as good as Cannibal Holocaust. I mean, Gevano Radichi is also in my stage right, city of the living dead. The guy plays him like he's brilliant. He's always brilliant. He's just, you know, he's not a fan of the films. He regrets doing them all, but he's the standout character, I think. It's a genuinely good film, Cannibal Farrocks. I think there have been times when I've watched it and I've not really enjoyed it as much. I've watched it the other day. And I think as we've got older, we can kind of appreciate things from a different viewpoint watching this when I was in my late teens. It's like, oh, this bit, this frustration, this bit. Yeah. Yeah. But watching it like three days ago, I just sat there and I really enjoyed it. So this is a great horror film. It's actually really well put together. It's just got the effects by Geno Durosi. It's on the flesh eaters are incredible. Like the special effects, the sequence with the hooks. I don't understand that sequence. I'm not going to say I watched it in slow motion because I haven't, but every time I watch that, I don't understand how they made that sequence happen. Yeah, the door is incredibly good in this movie, incredibly convincing. Yeah. But, you know, it's also, as I said, it's just the word I'm looking for in this film is very hard to get on. It's hard to get out, but it's a very cheeky movie. Do you know what I mean? I know that's a strange way to look at it, but even. Oh, wait, so we will. Why is it cheeky? Why is it naughty? The stuff that's happening on the screen just feels like. Like, I'm virtual lenses going, oh, check me out the adult. So I can do this. And just, and it's just so fucked up the deaths in this film. Like the people they chop the top of his head off, the people they castrate him, chop his hand off. It feels like Lindsey is just basically saying, right, let's do this. Let's do this. I'm going to do this. He's kind of rubbing his hands thinking they're going to like this film. It's just as fucked up as kind of a Holocaust. But then the end product, it's a completely different beast. It's almost, as we're saying, like, it's almost funny. Like, it's almost comedy because of the stupid dialogue. The strange pacing of the film, where for no reason in the middle of the film, when Gloria and the other actress Zora Kova are being held captive in the middle of the village, they just start singing such a bizarre movie. I try and put a reason on to that. And I'm thinking to myself, well, maybe they're doing that. So, like the tribes people will think they're more human. Or maybe it's just that we need to find a couple of minutes to fill. Well, there's definitely a couple of scenes that they probably didn't need to have in the film. There's one sequence, which just serves as an excuse for the Rudy character to run away because they're in a village, they've got everyone captive. And then for no reason, they get on a boat and travel all the way to another village and carry on. It's like, where are they, what are they doing? The only reason for that is so that when the boat stops, Rudy can leg it, which you probably could have done from the village anyway, they're in originally. So, that whole sequence is just completely redundant. It doesn't need to happen whatsoever. But it looks nice. It's very well filmed and gives you a nice view of the jungle. We'll get a lovely piranha scene from it. You do get a lovely piranha scene. And again, good effects, right? I just love this film so much. Do you prefer this to Hannibal Holocaust? I didn't. I preferred Cannibal and my initial watches are both. And now I can't separate them. I've upped this one to nine. I initially gave it an eight. But swings around abouts really. I think they're different enough that I think this is a more film film. If you know what I mean, it's more of a, there's a beginning, a middle and an end. You've got characters, some of them you might actually like this time around. Lorraine DeSalle, Gloria Davis, she's playing. And I just think, as I said earlier, she's charismatic. On screen, brother Rudy, who you mentioned, you also like that guy. And we've got a proper villain for everybody, for everyone this time. Nobody is going to like Mike. No one's going to like him. But you're meant to, aren't you at first? You get tricked. We've seen too many films to know that this guy is not a good egg. It's just the only film I've seen in him where he plays badly. You've seen City of the Living Dead, haven't you? The Foxy film? Yes, he's in that. He's the one who gets his head drilled in that film. Oh, man. Yeah, he's, there's also some, I mean, the, I can't remember the actor's name. The one who looks like Elijah Wood, who's hanging out with him. He's awful. But yeah, they're all great. No, well, no. It's one that I was going to mention, obviously, that even though Holocaust is the more respected film, it's definitely worth mentioning that Umberto Lindsey started the genre. So he was the one who created these films with deep river savages. So in a way, I'd say that it's not Diodato genre. He just excelled in it. I've not seen it yet. You mentioned in our last chat that it wasn't all that. It's okay. It's just more, you know what pulled this, this is the only genre that I struggled to find words to describe them. It's a, it's a lot lighter. It's more of an adventure film. Same as I guess, like Last Cannibal World. That's, they feel like adventure movies that happen to have these nasty film. Well, film's equally stuck in the middle of them. And there's like mountain to cannibal God with Ursula Andres. Got that to look forward to. That's not very good. The live is, I don't like eating the live either. I've got a really good rep, that one. Tell you one that I do like is called massacre in dinosaur valley, right? Right. Which has no massacres, no dinosaurs, and it's not set in a valley. But that is hilarious. That is such brilliant, brilliant, brilliant bit of shit. There's a bird in that one. Really? Oh, that's good fun that one. There's a brilliant sequence where a plane crashes, near the beginning of the film. They're trying to copy Last Cannibal World, but you know, all starts up in the plane. But you can clearly see it's someone's living room, and someone's just pushing the set E from side to side like this. And then when you see the plane crash, you can see that it's an air fixed model just being thrown into a pond. Which is, you know, planning out space sort of vibes, but. So yeah, yeah, the whole cannibal genre isn't quite as terrifying as the ones you've seen so far. I think, you know, you've got some there. I'm sort of happy about that. Like, that's okay. You've seen the most powerful one. Well, my initial watch of this, I thought it was lengthy trying to just up, up cannibal Holocaust in every single way. So you've done that. Like you said, I'm going to do this, but you've killed two. I'm going to kill four. You know, the animal death will get into that in a sec, but I just want to say this film, and I wrote it down like as I was watching it this final time. And I think that the opening act I put is great. The second act is just gruesome. The third act is breathtaking. And that was my, like, third watch. And I'm still that excited about something to call it breathtaking. And I love the special effects and gore. Like, it's got murder. It's got eye trauma. Love a bit of eye trauma. Love you a bit of eye trauma. You know, like kniving out that guy's eye is amazing. I mentioned piranhas, got poison, we've got genitalia stuff going on, as you mentioned of phobia atrocities. No, there's no need for booby atrocities. But yeah, this one goes there. It does go there. It really does go there. And just the hooks. But the special effects on them on the castration sequence that they are entertaining in a way because, you know, the special effects are good. But I don't know about you, but I've never seen a ball bag that big. So you've got to sing our ball bag. Okay. Next up, but that sequence amuses me. It's like, it's just so fucking fun. I don't know why I find this film I'm using, but do you know what I mean when I say it's like silly, it's nasty, it's a bit cheeky, because even though it is horrible, it's, it's not the same as kind of a Holocaust. It has a totally different feel to it. And I've watched this film with a couple of different people and they've laughed throughout it. You know, they've, they've gone, Oh, my God, they chopped his cock off. But at the end of kind of a Holocaust me, they're doing the same thing. They're all just sitting again. Because of the way it's delivered. Yeah, I totally agree. It's very, very visceral, that one. And this one, not so much, although what you're seeing is pretty much the same, if not more, means just that, as you say, the presentation of that found footage way of delivering something. That has up to the anti so much with Holocaust, that, you know, it's going to go to court because someone's not thinking that, you know, you haven't killed one of the actors doing this. Yeah, there is this one we even have a final girl in this one for goodness sake, you know, you know, this, you couldn't be more of a film film rather than. Yes, that's right. Yeah, definitely is. It's a, it's a film. And I guess it's a yarn should we call it a yarn. Yes, please. You know, it's not one for the box is it. No, I love the fact also that this film is they claimed it was banned in 31 countries. Bagline right. That's the way to go. I also love the fact it was one of the only video nasties that had nothing on the front cover it's just a black case, and it said, due to the upsetting imagery. You can't put a cover on this and I thought, you know, that's a good way to draw you in though. I mean, first, the first time I was working H and V when it first came out and video, it had that black sleeve still and that co released it. And we sold so many copies of it, but I just felt sorry for these people because they were so cut. I was thinking, I could learn you, I could learn you my copy. I stand by what I say that if you're going to watch a film, just either don't watch it or watch it in his entirety because I just don't see I don't see the point. With this one, there is a cut of this on YouTube. I don't know how cut that is. That was my first watch on YouTube and then I had to find, well, let's say, source a completely uncut version. But yeah, I don't know. I think it's definitely worth finding. I want to ask you, I mean, I give it nine out of 10. Of course, it's definitely worth finding. It's amazing. There is the actor Giovanni Radice, I think he predicted Mike. Yeah. Okay. Now he's said this in several interviews and I pulled this quote out because I find it really interesting. He's reportedly stated that he'd wished he'd never portrayed Mike. He criticizes the movie for being an, I quote, both fascist and racist. Would you say to that quote, fascist and racist. I don't think, I don't think the film is quite that clever. I don't think it has that element to it. I think it's, it's exploitation. And it's, yeah, can obviously be read in many different ways, but I don't think. I don't think it's a terrible holocaust is perhaps more offensive. But cannibal pharaoh doesn't really feel like that cannibal pharaoh feels like. It's just too extreme and batshit crazy to be political. If that makes sense. You could charge both of these films with the same sort of thing. I'm sure the pay for the indigenous tribes wasn't the same for the main stars. The holocaust, of course you've got the infamous scene of where they're setting up some fire. There's actually twice people inside, run, run, run, run, you know, just to make the scene more appealing. So yeah, I mean, we could throw these things at both. I think it's not a competent enough filmmaker to be going beyond what the film is, that makes sense. I think he's just making his silly little film, he's having a laugh, he gets very angry with his, his crew, his brilliant picture of him and radiating on set of basically screaming at each other. This thing, I think a lot of it is about intent and I don't think the intent is to be fascist and racist. No, no, no, no. Oh, don't see it in any way. And sometimes, you know, these things, I mean, you can go back in cinema, 70s, 60s, 50s, 40s, 30s, 20s, and everything is racist. You know, every single film, there's elements of racism. You know, faulty towers is the most offensive one. Oh, and it all out over time to the point where we get to films that don't even brush the subject now. He says, not convinced by that in any way. But yeah, I just think this one of those things that you, if you are into exploitation cinema, you can't avoid any of these things sexism is the worst. If you can't get over that, you can't watch these films because you're not going to be able to. There's no way of doing it. And yeah, that's my thought on it. And I'm not the guy that's playing Mike Logan. I'm not, I'm not him. I don't know. It could have been completely different being there. But all I know is when I watch this film, I think he's amazing in it that there's no way you can act that cocaine dump without being that cocaine dump. And I think that he is having fun on that set. I've seen behind the scenes stuff as well. And you know, it's the only film I've ever seen that uses the word twat so many times. It's bizarre, isn't it? Just like just swearing everyone for no reason and just slapping everybody. The beginning sequence with the cops when they're looking for him. And just turning up and saying, hey, it's not the cops is it it's the gangsters there trying to find them which actually one of them is played by Perry Pikmin is the blonde dude who eviscerates the turtle in cannibal Holocaust. And he said, I just love just the stupid dialogue. Like, he's got our horse. We want our horse horse is like, I don't know, I don't know man. Like, in the majority films like, you know, when there was drug references and exploitation films, you know, just like the lingo they use really amuses me like horse. It's just like, we want our horse. It's like, oh god. Here's a here's a question. Okay, to sort of wrap these two films up, two episodes on the trot about the cannibal genre. And there's a couple more to go. But I just want your opinion of it. What would you rather sit down and watch now? I think we can both agree that these films should have been on the list. If any film should be on the list, these should be there. Definitely Holocaust. I would also say ferrocks. But if you've got someone that isn't, they're into horror, but they haven't seen these. Are you going to pinpoint one particular one? What would it be? And what's your particular go to? The majority of horror fans or extreme horror fans have heard of Holocaust because it's just one of those titles. Isn't it? I don't think I've ever met a horror fan who hasn't seen it in some form or another. But it's hard to recommend. Isn't it to anybody really? I mean, you're making yourself look like a freak if you're recommending these films to people who aren't into horror fans. So it's definitely not a good entry point. I think it's probably an easier one to recommend. Because as I said, it's got a completely, it's much easier tone. It doesn't feel as dangerous. If I was going to go and watch one of them now, which I'm not because I've got to run a stool at my son's fate at his school. I'd probably watch Carol while of course, because I haven't seen it in a long time and this is definitely made me talking about these films. It's made me want to go back and watch it. I almost wish I could watch that film more frequently, but it's not something I can put on very often. It's one of those films like remember we were discussing with necromantic you didn't actually want it physically in your house. Right. Yep. So, I've still got the same VHS and DVD when I first got it years and years ago. I keep thinking I'm going to upgrade that to Blu Ray, but then if something tells me, I don't need kind of a Holocaust than any higher definition than this. So, I would buy special edition, but I will, I will get it. If second site bring out like that lovely box set or whatever they would, and cannibal ferrocks was up next, I would definitely buy it. If it was Holocaust, I've seen it three times now. I'm good. If I never see it again, you know, what a good year I had water net three times. I don't ever need to see it again. Yeah, but it's interesting how when you see any lists of controversial cinema, you get things like say low, is it pronounced say low silo. I can't call it say low, but I've never got one pronunciation right. And then cannibal Holocaust is always on the list as the most controversial comes ever is always up there. So, anyone who's into cinema has heard of this film, but they've seen it or not. Whereas, in cannibal ferrocks is probably to a lot of people, that's probably just like the knock off version of it, which is a shame because I think it, you know, it deserves, it deserves its own 15 minutes of fame very much so. And I mean, the original titles like, it was called Make Them Die Slowly to begin with, great title. Yeah, that's on the original posters, but I think it was changed at the last minute as a cash in, and that, as with a lot of films, we're saying with acts, if acts had still been just called Lisa, it wouldn't have had the same issues. Cannibal ferrocks probably would have had more respect if it hadn't have just at the last minute gun. Let's change the name to Cannibal ferrocks, which is also a really cool name. And ferrocks is obviously, is it Latin for ferocious. I don't know. Yeah, but it's a weird word, isn't it? It's like ferrocks. It's a cool type. Yeah. [Music] Roberto Denati plays a blinder here. Well, most of the time. Unfortunately, this one happily drifts into funky early 80s stuff, and it happens way too often for my liking. But when that funk, and I mean funk, when it's dropped for the more conventional synth stuff, that's when this Cannibal ferrocks score really exceeds for me. I love what I'm hearing. Oddly, it just never branches out into horror territory either. It's really strange. Maybe, maybe the track J walking iguana does, maybe, but as I say, more often than not. This one just settles for a dare I say drama feel rather than any horror. It's not focusing on what's actually going on. And what that means is that it gives you a really unsettling watch, and it's quite nice to listen to too. I love the tracks like Not the Piranhas and Man Hunting. They bring out this sense of other time, this other place, this mystery that's going on. And that's when it's at its best. But as I say, at its worst, you've got funk all over the place. It's fucking horrible. [Music] When I was little, what did that to me, that happened to me, was Stroll Peter, you know, the children's picture book. I mean, that kind of thing, which is an extreme case, doesn't really worry me. And what I'm worried about for children, if haven't, is the kind of everyday thing that they'll see. The Starskin Hutches, the ordinary action film, that show men beating each other up, which show men being aggressive. I'm worried about if it's a door to say the kind of advertising, the kind of way that she will see women are meant to act because of the advertising. Now, that worries me far more than any one extreme piece of horror that they might come up against. But that's a matter of changing society's attitudes. Not a matter of saying, no, you can't have this, no, you can't buy that. And in changing society's attitudes, that's very much it can't be done by a secret censorship process. It's going to be done by public debate. [Music] So, a number four was Cannibal Fairocks, but number three. I reckon the best fit for this position is zombie flesh eaters, aka zombie, aka zombie two. This one was from 1979. And at one point last year, I actually took both regular guests, Mark and Ali, and Gray and Bywater, to a live Fritsey-Dazz-Folci show in London, where the film played behind that musician. It was a proper trip, I could tell you. So, this was recorded before that, and this is what we thought of the film itself. [Music] It's zombie flesh eaters. They come out of the darkness, to take over your soul, to eat your flesh, and make you one of the living dead. [Screaming] Zombie is about to begin, and you'll eat it out. It's on my arm! Zombie, we are, but they eat no one from 17 minutes. And before we get into this chat about it with the ever wonderful Gray and Bywater, just a little bit of stuff up front. This was the second Italian horror that I truly loved. The first one was Demons, and I saw that when I was much, much younger than this. And I simply thought it was some drug induced monster mashup made by some mad folk over in Italy, but I was happy with it. But it was like this big one off for me. Now, this one was one that I watched for the very first time, slightly before I started this podcast. It was a couple of years back now, and I've got to tell you, I became a fast fan of it. And it all started because of that underwater zombie versus shark scene. It's a moment, right? Del Toro calls it a masterpiece of madness. Just that scene. And who am I to disagree with him? I want to mention Sergio Salvarti. I'm not sure whether we did that in the actual interview. He's a cinematographer here, and it's simply outstanding. Incredible, incredible work. The whole boat sequence, pulling up to America, New York in particular, and that build up of suspense. It's so skillfully done. I don't know why there are huge millipedes on a keyboard in the boat. That is weird. And those wavy, throbby keys in the background, that musical stab is so odd and sick and juicing. I just love it. It doesn't make a liquor sense either. But why should it? That's not why we're here. And talking about that New York scene, when that zombie bursts out, I still notice every single time that he has to lean on the boat when he turns around so he doesn't fall in the water. That's a bit annoying. But apart from that, it's totally believable. It looks actually fantastic. It's an incredible achievement for the time. Still holds up. I am so many watchers in now at Silly, and I only saw it for the first time a couple years back at Snuts. And, as Graham mentioned as well, I truly love these zombies. The look of the zombies, they're dusty, they're crumbly. I don't think zombies ever looked this incredible again on the screen. As soon as digital effects started getting involved, it would make your jaws drop because, oh, you can see right through that head. You know, that's impressive. But at the same time, you know, it's not there. It's not tangible. It's just some bits on the screen. It's silly. It's all so muddy and dry this one. The prosthetics, they look incredible as well. When they rise from the ground, they're covered in that dry mud. It's absolutely brilliant. And here to chat about zombie flesh eaters, in all its crusty detail with me, is video nasty, bestie, and podcast regular Graham Bywater. He's from the band Torso. And if you look up here, Underscore lies, Underscore Torso. You will see that they have released their pre-order pages. Get on there. Get some coloured vinyl. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] This is the one. Zombie flesh eaters. Yes. Okay. So I've always wanted to speak about this one since I've started doing a podcast because it was the first film that I sort of done a switcheroo from thinking Italian films are rubbish. Why am I bothering? Why do I keep buying these things from Arrow to, I've bought the right one now? Yeah. I've seen so many versions of this movie. It's ridiculous. I believe I used to have the VHS cut. And that was my go-to version for so many years. It's impossible to appreciate these vulture movies unless you're watching them on Blu-ray with all the colours correct. And the screen ratio correct. The sound correct. Because these films have just been butchered in decades, haven't they? I mean, you've been watching the Pan and Scan version of the Beyond that barely fit onto the screen. The colours totally washed out. The sound, not even in sync. All the good stuff missing. And people say they're shit, but that's mainly because they haven't seen the films as the director intended, which is what I think arrowed in such a fantastic job. Because these versions of the film, I feel like I'm watching them for the first time again. When I had that moment where I was like, "Oh, hang on." When that finally hit me, I would revisit my Giallo's and things. And everything seemed to make a little bit more sense. Yeah, I agree completely. Yeah. Watching Suspiria on Blu-ray, like, two weeks ago. Like, I've seen that film hundreds of times. But it's just something about watching it. And that sort of definition, knowing that someone has painstakingly restored it to the best way they possibly can, instead of VICCO bootlegging a VHS tape and just putting it out with some makeshift cover. Yeah. It's amazing. Like, watching somebody flash you to scan a few months ago on Blu-ray. And I was just like, "Yeah, I can't wait to see this again." Because it's just, it's more new life into it. I watched it with the commentary this time around, because I watched it a year ago without. I've got a couple of facts that all throw out in the middle of this. But I just want to give you my top five forchy right now and see if I'm missing something out. Okay. So number five, house by the cemetery. Number four, the New York Ripper. Number three, city of the living dead. Two, the beyond. Number one, zombie flesh eaters. Is there something I'm missing out? Oh, well, I think you would probably really like don't torture a duck. Early, early doors. Not too early. I think it's 76 or 70. I can't. I can't remember. Phil, she did so many things between like 79 and 80. He did. It's just ridiculous. I lose track of what all of the films are even made him because he was so busy. Those gates of health films were pretty much made back to back. It's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, he must have been so busy. But I think New York Ripper, I'm not really a particularly big fan of it. It's, you could tell that a thought she was in was in a bad place. At that point, he wasn't a happy man. But I think you've got the, of his horror films, I think those are the ones that you've chosen. I'm not saying, you know, those are his best movies. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's, have you seen Murder of the Rock or Door to Darkness? Yes. And then no. Yeah. I mean, they're all worth watching, I'd say. I mean, you know, they're all, they're all strong films. I mean, one of the films I wanted to love of his was Manhattan Baby because the score is astonishing. Like, the score is just something else. I've used it as a stage intro gigs many, many times, but the film is really poor. It's really poorly made. And it's not scary. And it's, it had so much promise because he went to Egypt film, the open sequence. But this sounds great. Yeah. But you wait, you know, Bob from House of the Cemetery? Yeah. Yeah. He's back in this. He's back. He's the best. But yeah, I'd watch Manhattan Baby, but it deteriorates gradually as the film goes on. I think it was like, it was a very good idea on paper, but see if the Living Dead is a funny one as well because I, I want to love that film because the score, the cinematography. Katrina McColl's amazing. The seat of the Living Dead is by far my least favorite, the era. I find the couple of the actors think Janet, Janet Ingram, and I can't remember the name of the other chap in it, but they're not strong enough to be leads in a film. You know, I mean, whereas in like in the Beyond Dave Warbeck in McCulloch, I think they are strong enough to be leads and they pull it off. But see, if the Living Dead feels like it's missing a vital part, there's too many characters in it who can't act for shit. And then there's Katrina McCollough, who's really brilliant. Yeah, I know. I just, I feel like House by the Symmetry works better because there's less people in it, there's less characters, there's less going on. See, the Living Dead is very clunky and it's very clogged up with really bad characterization, like the little kid in there. Jivana Ridicci, the guy from Campbell Ferrocks, his character in it, just wandering around, just doing fuck all. It doesn't add anything to the film. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, I just feel like, yeah, I know a lot of people think that's the best of his films, but it could have been so much more concise and it would have made it scary or it'd been more concise, I think. I was getting to know you. You mentioned in the talk with me about high tension that you like that smaller cast. Oh, yeah, that's interesting. Definitely. It's much, so much scarier. Well, you mentioned Fauci wasn't in a happy place during your grip up, but from the documentaries that I've seen, he was never in a happy place. He was because his wife commit suicide, and then his daughter was, his daughter fell from a horse and broke her back around the set, not too long after his wife's death. So he was just, he was a, he was really miserable, really angry, really miserable, and just made the most of the fact that he had this small crew who would just work with them and do what he said. So he made about 1000 films in 10 minutes. And with mixed results. Zombie fleshy is a little take that I just loved hearing on the commentary. So thought you only made seven grand, $7,000 making this film. That was his fee. Imagine that. Yeah, that's terrible. But it's, yeah, I mean, I'm assuming the costs of zombie fleshy were a lot, you know, the budget was a lot higher than the film. Was it really a half a million budget and it made 31 back. And he made seven grand. Seven grand. You know, and obviously it's worth mentioning that it was made as a sequel to the Dawn of the Dead, wasn't originally, which is daft because it stands up on its own. I don't think, I mean, it being called zombie to. It's just assessed. It's really silly because the name zombie flesh eaters was actually given to, I think, by the UK census. I think, I think it was the VICCO release that came out and they changed the name of it. I did not know that. Yeah, I don't think Fauci ever had any intention of calling it zombie flesh. Wow. Yeah, I mean, it happened a lot with VICCO. I think when they released blood, is it blood eater, the zombie film that's got the zombie from Night Living Dead in it, the opening sequence. For some reason, when VICCO released that, they just called it zombie notch. Sorry, did you say zombie notch? Yeah. Come on. Yeah. Which has it up. No, they have no way. Yeah, and that film could have been pretty, you know, a bit of the classic. It's so really not. Yeah. Here we go. Yes, it was called flesh eater originally, and then, and then, yeah, VICCO changed it to zombie notch Christ. That's, yeah. But it's okay, because, you know, it's uncut. Oh, this is why I get you on. Yeah, but, you know, it's great. I think the British censors, well, the censors, the distributors of these films in the UK in the 80s were just having an absolute laugh with these movies. No, I mean, like, some of the titles were amazing, but some of them were zombie notch. I mean, the whole thing about this, it knocks me for six, like, this was shot in less than two months, June and July, '79. And then, at the end of August, it was released. This is a mad. Yeah. It's like, I've got an idea for a film. Let's talk about it now, going, all right, let's do this. He's out by Christmas out. Yeah, mad. Imagine if the record industry worked that quickly. Jesus. I've got to wait until March before the next record I've done is in my hands and I recorded it like three months ago. I don't know if you're even nice. I'm going to care by that point. This is a year old now, and we'll get it in March. So your history with this one. So when did you first learn about it? Can you remember watching it? Yeah, I think similar to kind of holocaust pharynx beyond the big ones, those ones we've discussed before. I think I was working at borders on Charing Cross Road in 2001, and I saw the video case, the classic one with the hand coming out the ground, and I was, I was really into like extreme crap at the time that anything, anything was good and exciting. I didn't even care if it was cut, but I remember watching it. Nothing has changed except now I'm watching them in widespread. But I remember watching it for the first time and thinking it was brilliant because I've never really been into zombie. I'm not a zombie fan. I find the whole franchise, it's just so disseminated and dull with the exception of Sean of the Dead, Night Living Dead. But some of the fleshies. Yeah, some of the fleshies was the first time I saw the zombie film that I really loved. I love the way it was made. I love the music. I loved how grubby it was, and it got me just kind of hooked on vulture, because I've mentioned she before. One of the things that kind of opened my eyes to all this was the video nasties book that Alan Bryce wrote. Yeah, the rectangular red book that was discontinued for years, they did gave it a second pressing. That was my kind of eye and what I knew was going on was through that book, and obviously because I was working in a bookshop at the time. I had access to all of these amazing books. One of the ones that really stood out to me in this book was Death Trap, or Eating Life, The Crocodile Film, purely because the cover had a picture of Marilyn Barnes kind of in peril on the front and I was like, obviously always text chainsaw mask was always been my day. So that stood out for me. But that I'd say that book was the thing that made me want to go through all these movies and watch them. The zombie flesh eats has been one of those films that I've dipped in and out for like the last 20 years and there's been times I've watched it where I've not liked it. There's times I've seen it and I just thought, Oh God, skip that scene gets a good bit my blood is too slow, but I've always, always come back to this one. It's always been there kind of in the back of my mind, like, I haven't seen zombie flesh eats for a couple years, let's stick it on. I just can't start watching it. And it just feels like it actually improves the time. It's addictive. And I think one of the reasons that's the good word. Yeah, it is though, same with a book she's got. I mean, I don't need to have seen the beyond like 35 times or something. Why, I don't know why I've seen that many times, but I will watch it again this year. Yeah, we know I've got them upstairs and downstairs. I've got my pile of unwatched that every now and again, I'll just peek through. I'll just shove like a few forties in there. And because I know that I'm going to enjoy it that night when I randomly pick it out, there's not many films I can do that to. And the expectations aren't high with these films. That's why I like them. And I think the, the first, do you know what actually I tell in life, zombie flesh eaters wasn't the first watching on my soul. The first one I saw was the hospital cemetery. And that's got to be confusing if that's the first one. It's funny because after you've watched all these sort of films, you have to think, I'm actually being scared by these films anymore. Are they actually, are they affecting me? Are they doing horror films should do and the answer is normally no. House my cemetery really creeps me out and still does. And I find that that's by far his scariest film I think, because it's, I don't know what it is about that one I'm guessing that's not one of your favorites. I mean, you said it's in your top five, but a lot of people really dislike that one and say, I can't believe that a director like that can do something as incompetent as that but. But what I love about a house of a cemetery is that it's a vortex of time like there's no beginning into the film so the film doesn't make any sense whatsoever and nothing's actually happening when you think it's happening. But yeah, with those films you get into the rhythm of them and for the only culprit and there's so many Italian directors at the time that either following him or, you know, influenced by him. And I think that what helps this one so much is there is a plot, you know there's a stuff there's stuff you can follow if you're doing laymen sticking getting a VHS from your shopping the eighties or whatever, or maybe not with this one. And you can just watch it and go I actually I got that. Yeah, from the beginning with the boat to the dusty zombies I get it I know what's happening. Some of the, well, the most of the acting, and the dubbing especially pretty horrific in this one like full cheese actually he's like the head of the newspaper or something at the beginning he's like working the office as the editor in chief or whatever. His dubbing is so bad, but come on. And, but then in McCulloch I mean he, he hasn't apparently he's never even seen the film this is why I've read, because he was in that and zombie Holocaust back to back and he's never seen them. He said he's got more videos somewhere in his house but he's never, never felt the need to revisit them. I think he's really good. I mean, obviously he's not done our climber is going to do that, and me a various sister teaser. She's not done anything that she's being awful and she's not the best. My sister got the standing looking scared and wooden she makes nimsy fauna look action packed you know I mean. Yeah, I'm not I'm not here to this I'm here to own what you've got a diss I mean like these films are here to be this but that's why we that's why we like them. I think you're not going to be able to this zombie versus shark I sent you this question. You're excited about it. I had never seen anything like this before. I forgot which one of the films it was in. After I bought the whole whole set on arrow so then I would like, where did I watch this where was which one was in went through them all again and found it. I love it so much. It's just amazing isn't it. Well, what is the to say about that sequence I mean there's a zombie biting a shark, but the shark wasn't injured. You know they made sure it was looked after they did drug it. Obviously they put something in its food but you know. So I guess there's an element of, you know, the animal cruelty that you see in a lot of these films which she didn't involve himself and he never did that. But I think, you know, drugging a shark's dinner just so you can get it to buy a prosthetic zombie army still animal cruelty in a way. I gotta take that. Do you know what I mean. But I don't I don't know where to even begin with that sequence because it's so phenomenal. It's so iconic. And it's so much more. It makes you realize that it felt she did have a bigger budget, what he would have been capable of. If he hadn't have rushed his way through his career so much and you know, worked himself literally to death. He could have been up there with, you know, George Romero, you know, because no one has or before or since had an underwater zombie shark fight. It's the stuff of legend in my mind. It can't be repeated. You're going to be getting a digital shark if you want to attempt anything like it. It's obvious time. It's just so utterly perfect. I didn't see it coming. And I remember a few watches of this film in just getting excited when you've got the actress that's naked. She does the naked scoop. And you just think, why is she naked? That's not helping anybody. Like, apart from us lads watching it or women watching it going, Oh, yeah, there's a there's a naked woman going to dive into it. You know, like who cares when you've got this shark scene is what that scene means to me. Yeah, there's a naked woman doing a weird scuba dive naked. That's strange. It's just, oh, I know what's coming up now. Oh, yes, I can't wait for this. Like, what a weird scenario to be in. You go from one extreme to the other. And then when it's over, the film just is back it back at it again. It's just a standalone scene sort of thing that is just, it must have taken a lot of preparation. I can't imagine that scene. I mean, how many sharks did they fight? Was he the only one? But I think it's by far the best fauci moment in his career. And I've seen a lot of his films and that's a high bar. Well, you know, you've got like the in the beyond the highlight for a lot of people is that tarantula tap, which I think ruins the film is just so shoddy. It's so badly put together. But, you know, you're going above and beyond when you're going 20 feet underwater and actually organizing and directing sequence that is filmed with an actual shark. No, it's just, yeah. I want to touch the stuff of nature. Yes, it is. It is. I want it apart. So that's off the table. Okay. You have to, we have to discuss the soundtrack at some point, because the soundtrack for me is just, I mean, Fabio Fritzi made these films in the same way that Goblin made the Argento films. They, they were because of the soundtrack. So, yeah. [Music] [Music] And I think the soundtrack is just as important as the script or the shark, you know, when you listen to separately. Oh, God, yeah, all the time, not a dinner, but yeah, absolutely. It's a brilliant soundtrack, absolutely brilliant. It's, I think, when, as I say, when you get that switch where you start to like Italian cinema from that era, I think once you get into that groove of the films, and then you're like, well, hang on, these soundtracks are also all great. And when you start digging, it's endless, the amount of great stuff from shit films, like we mentioned earlier as well, there'll be a shit film with a great soundtrack. Yeah, it's rare it's the other way. Well, I think, I wonder if that's because we, you know, we both come from the musical background, because I remember seeing these films for the first time, and the soundtrack is one of the things that grabbed me the most. But I think, like Fabio Fritz, he's astonishing. I mean, his, all of the whole two comes benefit, considerably from having him involved. I can't imagine watching zombie flesh eaters with a different soundtrack. It's so good. And it's so vital and it's so morose. It's so like, downbeat, but so he's made more than seven grand from it as well. Well, he's still doing live shows of these soundtracks. Now he's playing at Union Chapel, I think next month. He's just shut up. Yeah, he's playing the whole of which one is it he's doing. I think he's doing the beyond house per cemetery and zombie. Pretty sure. Yeah, he's played there before a couple of times. Fabio Fritz Union Chapel, Saturday, 28th of October. Yeah. Yeah, he's playing the folks you start. I might have to go out to a gig this Friday. I bet it's sold out, isn't it? Ah, do you know what? Well, it's next year. It's next October. Yeah, 28th, Sunday, 28th of October. Oh, yeah, 2023. There we go. Yeah. So I misread it, but it is happening. Tickets available. With me, you should go on a date. I think we should. It's only 30 quid. Anyway, hang on, I'll talk. Yeah, boy. No, be good, wouldn't it? All right, let's, let's DM that. It's not, it's not for the listeners. It's just a future date and meet up. So, all right, apart from the sharks, apart from the score, which is the favourite bit of this film. The burial ground, when they come back to life. It's amazing, right? It is just so brilliantly done. And I love the fact that they've put the camera under the ground and when it comes out, there's an earth falling off the camera lens and, you know, the fact that Ian McCulloch's chosen, that is his moment when he's going to make his move on his lady friend. It's like, getting old British and smarmy and then outcome the hands. Yeah, that sequence always stands out. That's the one that I look forward to the most because it's so beautifully made. And it's just so incredibly well put together and shot. What else is good? Well, the eyeball scene. Let's not forget the... It's what people tend to, unlike us, where we think, like in that shark was magic, we'll leave this film thinking of that eye trauma. Eye trauma? Yeah, which was cut for most of the videos, which was so stupid because you get the, you know, you get it to about here and then it cuts to something else. And like, well, we knew what was happening. What was the point in cutting it? When I first saw that uncut, I was really impressed, really, really good. It's the stuff that whole set up, and this is what we shouldn't forget ever. Like, as much as, like, he can be laughed at with certain bits, like the spider scene and things like that in other films. When you've got a set up like that that ends in that eye trauma, that whole set up from the moment that, like, shutting the door, you know, it's just an incredible action piece. Mixing in horror, mixing in all sorts of different genres, just to get that final stab, if you will. It's so well done, and it's so artfully done. I think Sergio Salvati, I want to say, Salvati, his cinematography in that and the initial boat scenes, start the film, just floor me. You know that, like you say, few extra millions, you know, instead of half a million, two and a half million. Let's see what we can do with that. Imagine. I mean, yeah, I think it's a shame that folks, you didn't do more interviews, because whenever I've watched them with Lisa, she always points out what is his obsession with eyes. What is it with the eyes? Because all of his films have eyes being gouged out, Manhattan baby, the main protagonist in the film. He's blinded in both eyes at the beginning of the film, so he spends most of the film with eye patches on. And it's a really interesting thing because his zoom, his use of the zoom lens, like permanently going into new eyeballs, people looking at the camera. It's a shame that he never really explained what that was all about. Because it's such an integral part of his cannons back out of the log is just eyes. And I love that. And also worth pointing out that he has two films that have the twin towers in New York, in the opening shop as well. And of course, it was obviously not intentioned at a time or doing not know. But it now will make you creeped out unintentionally. There was no intention to creep out by that, but now it means so much. Why the fuck not? And I remember when they were talks, at the time that was happening, digitally removing them from films that had just been sort of made. So yeah, not going back as far as this. But what a terrible idea. The sense is the sense is probably thought no one would care about like vulture films like who's watching vulture films to look at the skyline. Not me then I tell you that was, was there, I mean, with these films, was the fact that they were Italian and they were a sort of completely different time. And that adds to the horror level of them. Because all of these films. Yeah. Yeah, like all these filmmakers from that era is, you know, like with Lindsay and dear dato is a danger that we didn't get in British cinema. It's almost like they kind of got away with a little bit more than we would have done if we'd have made it at the same time. So I'm trying to think of a comparison from a British film that would rival. I can't really think of anything at all. I'm guessing to an extent don't look now could have a sort of filthy feel to it. But that's what I think that's one of the things that appealed to me so much because after seeing Texas Chainsaw. I wanted something that was not necessarily gory that grubby and would actually give me nightmares and make me feel like I was part of a world that I couldn't find just from going to blockbuster. Because, you know, gradually these films, all these Italian films came over to the UK and we could go and hire them out. And it was a complete eye opener because they're trash, but they're also masterpieces that you'll never be quite sure about. Like I was saying before I had no idea why I like Holocaust well I don't know do I like that film so much. But maybe it's just because I do find it genuinely challenging and I don't get how they got away with those films I don't understand how they got themselves into a situation where they were in the Amazon rainforest, massacring animals and being able to release it to the public, because that wouldn't have happened in this country. I understand what you're saying is tricky to pinpoint what their intentions are like I know that they want to Americanize these things so it can appeal to the biggest audience. But then you've got films later on like troll to where they try and insert like what they think American language would be. And to get actual American acting actors to say it and it sounds like that's bizarre no one would actually speak like that. What country of the troll films from I think the director at least is Italian. I think I've ever seen, I think I might have seen like the first one that I know troll troll is meant to be quite challenging. It's amazing. Yeah, right a few of the people that I've had on would rate it a 10 out of 10 just because it's one of those so bad it's good but it's still good. But I think actually just saying what the saying about how discovering films at a certain point in my life. Worth mentioning the first two Peter Jackson films because again like band taste. There's another film where I found it genuinely wanting to be like what are they doing. You can't do this in a film this is insane I found that film rude disturbing first I saw I knew it was a comedy. There's something about it just I didn't quite understand or get. It made me feel really uncomfortable. Same for necromantic. But there's the thing they're not trying to do American. That's thing when they do they're trying to take influence or thinking what would appeal rather than let's make it be like as American as it possibly can be I think that's the difference as soon as you step into that territory. It's dangerous ground with this one zombie flesh eaters when they approach America it's it works. And because there is this foreign thing. Just like this film is a foreign thing approaching America you know it's a really nice way to look at it it's not this. You know we want to be American approaching America it's not that at all it's a hundred percent this foreign strange entities. It's great. I love that sort of stuff like don't try and be American do what you do. I mean get necromantic. How do you ever discuss necromantic. I have yeah yeah I have I think it's coming up I don't know maybe it's already. Well one thing that at the end of the end of the film. When all the undead are marching down the bridge in New York. That must have taken some doing they must have to close off the entire bridge to shoot that film top bit they did it because of what we now have with arrow thank you very much arrow but we can now see that there's traffic. Still going underneath both ways. I don't think I've noticed that actually. It's one of those things you don't pick out until like you're like watching it on the big screen and you're like writing down your notes. Yeah. Like and that's such a shame and I can imagine like you saying in the early releases on VHS you don't see you're not going to see that at all and it's just going to look terrifying you know this grainy footage of them coming up. Your VHS like little bit of tracking on there are would have loved to see it like that. You probably still can you can probably get the video online somewhere. I know I mean get that zombie notch do a double. Still can't believe you've introduced me to zombie notch. It's you watch it. As I say like you know I wish I could remember the name of the actor but you know the zombie from the start of like the living dead who comes up when they're coming to get you Barbara. And the zombie comes out it's him. It's he basically did his own horror film 20 years later bringing that same rollback. You know what I mean you know what I mean now. There's no nothing there's not a single notch in the whole film. Why would there be. I know I know time is short and I want to thank you so much for coming on final question. Should this one be a video nasty. Yeah, absolutely. I can't imagine the life without it. It's, it was the that drill a killer cannibal Holocaust that faces a video nasty. Yeah, and it's pretty nasty. I mean zombies. Well yeah but some zombies to me as I said I've never been a massive zombie fan. I don't necessarily find them scary. So I don't think it's a traumatic film as such. The eyeball bits a bit scary. The shark's pretty amazing but I mean if I showed my son. He's six I showed him. The shark attack he'd be amazed. He wouldn't be repulsed. He'd be excited by it. So I don't think it's necessary a nasty nasty film because the end of the day it's just the later people shuffling around. Having a bite nibbling each other. Notching each other but but I don't think. I think it I'm glad it was a video nasty because I helped me discover those films. But at the same time like. Yeah, I don't think it's that extreme. I don't think any of them are necessary that extreme because they're pretty far-fetched. And they're in a different universe and it's hard to kind of connect that to reality the same way you would with. You know, I think I was saying necromantic. You can't really justify why you want to watch that film because it's so graceful. So people will. I love it. I love the soundtrack. I love the second one as well. But I don't I still can't believe it's been released on cut in the UK. And it's on prime. Me and you necromantic to that's for sure. Oh, good. Have you seen it? No, no, it's on my little list. So yeah, it's so long. It's so long. But the other one's like. Yeah. Yeah, this one's definitely more focused on the sort of love story. The end of the necromantic to will literally blow your. So, so, so horrible. It's so romantic. Final thoughts. Final thoughts on zombie fleshy is anything left that you want to say about it. I will say that I think age is very well, which a lot of films in the era don't. I think I'll still be watching this going on in 10 years time. I'll never escape these films. They'll never be a point when I'll look back and get off. You know, there are certain films I've seen to death. I don't ever want to see again. The zombie flesh eaters is just a fake. It will always be taken off the shelf and watched at least once a year because it's got something magic about it. That I've not seen again in a zombie film. I think it's it is the ultimate zombie film. I think it's unbeatable and I highly recommend it. Just be forewarned that I feel like the film perhaps takes a little bit of time to get going. I think the first 20 minutes or so could definitely be a bit snappier and perhaps like the dialogue a little bit better. But once they're off, once they've got that got on their boat, the film is just non-stop. It's a roller coaster, isn't it? I said, what's that? Is it racist in places or other things that haven't aged very well? Hey, if we're talking about this era of film, what isn't, you know, what? Yeah. What the hell isn't. Lucas, Lucas not understand Voodoo like the white man. Like, what does that mean? Yeah. But he made a, he was the actor whose name I think is just Dakar. He was in the Michelle Swarwee film stage fright, which I think is, oh my God, that is a masterpiece. Yeah. Really, really is. I'd love to chat about that one. God, we should go to it. We are going to go on that date together. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a year away, but it's fine. I'll be, it'll be, I'll be coming up to, well, I'm 40, 45 a week today. So I'll be coming up to 46. Thanks, dear. How did that happen? And I spent most of it watching looking horrible. Mate, that's great. What way to live your life? Yeah. Graham, thanks for coming on. Enjoy the rest of your day. Yeah. Take care, dude. Alright, mate. [Music] You see, I think what's happened is that the people who are against this bill have got themselves all tied up with this academic approach to the word censorship. The dirtiest word in the English language. Right. If we thought about people, not ideas, so much, but people. What do you think about those people? Can we reply on the obscene publications act? Alright. Can you one second? I've seen publication. You see, what worries me is that Mary Whitehouse, having lost a series of cases immediately declares a law wrong. I have not. Let's take an example of the case. I have not. One second, Mary. You threw a lot of questions to me. I'm going to put one back to you in a moment. One of the cases she lost, and let's take it as an interesting case of a thing that I'm certain be refused certification, was a very serious film dealing how male aggression is produced. It was a film called Scum. It was a film about the effects of Boston on its inmates, a very serious film, which happens to use violence in order to show its message. Excuse me, Mary. Well, excuse me. Don't interrupt because I didn't interrupt you. Well, this will have to be cut because the IBA is appealing. The thing has gone to appeal. And we come out, discuss this, come on this. We can discuss the film because the film is the kind of film that will be refused certification under the bill because it happens to use violence in order to convey a message. The fact is, yes, it does show gross violence. It actually shows an act. It shows an act of buggery in a small boy and institution because of the way boy. I want to be able to use violence in a film if it is used to make an important message about how people are made violence. I beg your pardon? It has helped five-year-old children to see this. It will help a lot of people learn. You want them to see this? What a silly question. I don't want them to see how the time of Jerry, because there are other ways to deal with that horrible issue. Because that film has a lot of value other than what a five-year-old might get out of it. Because you want to twist everything back to this cartoon image of a child. I'm sorry. It's a cartoon image of a child which you throw at us and then try to drag everything, including the obscene publications, into line around this image of a child. You know, what I find interesting is that we have listened very patiently to the arguments put by those who support the bill. As soon as we try to reply, actually a great deal of heckling comes in because we actually have a more complex plate case to put. The fact is that violence per se is neither good nor bad. It is the use to which it's put. It is the context in which it's seen. And hope is not necessarily the worst context you have seen violence. Therefore, I'm making a case that the obscene publications act is only seen as a problem because actually a large number of cases have been lost by the moral majority campaigners in this country. I know what you're saying. You're saying what could possibly be better than Zombie, I hear you ask. Well, let's head to 1972 now and we're going to chow down on the last house on the left. The Wes Craven nightmare that is simply put a film that changed the way I think about horror cinema completely. Let's head back over to myself and Graham yet again and we try to gather our thoughts after being blown away by this masterpiece. Now, there is an exhaustive book out there called Wes Craven's Last House on the Left, The Making of a Cult Classic, and it's by David Zulkin. This paired with the luscious arrow video Blu-ray with its plethora of extras will no doubt give you an almost complete picture of the creation, release and legacy of this incredible film. So there's very little that I can actually add to the conversation I think, but I do want to point something out. In Stephen Thrower's massive, big, thick book called Nightmare USA, there's this image showing a naked Sandra Peabody, aka Sandra Cassell. She's looking very seductive and enticing and seemingly enjoying that knife being lightly drawn across her belly. It's from a German poster for Last House on the Left, and the reason I bring this up is because before I saw the movie, this is exactly what I was worried this film would be like. A sort of cross between soft porn for the grubby little men to get their rocks off to, and an exploitative movie where the messaging was fuzzy at best and where rape would be glorified and even just given a pass. That's what I thought. The thing is, I should have trusted Wes Craven. Even at such a young age, his filmmaking may well have been green in many ways, but he wasn't a monster. Thankfully, he's just seemed to know exactly where to draw the line, and what I do reckon is that is why we're talking about this film with such high regard today. In fact, in Zukin's book, it made it a very apparent that Last House was actually intended to be a far grubbier affair initially, as there was going to be a shower masturbation scene. Also, there was a scene with the girls where they'd be having full-on gang sex with members of that band, Bloodlust. And also the lurid gang members they were partaking in necrophilia with the corpse of Phyllis. Thankfully, though, Craven's reluctance to actually cash in on a straight porn horror movie and delving to horror alone means that not only have I seen this, but I would also rate it at 9 out of 10. There are still moments that I don't think work as well as they could. Some of the soundtrack choices, for instance, are bloody weird, and some of the continuity mistakes and filmmaking choices, they seem very much. I would say like it's the first time you're out there doing it, but you know what? They were first-time filmmakers. And these faults in the scheme of things, they're tiny. Considering the impact of this film, and considering the impact it had on me some 50 years after it initially came out, I think that last house on the left, it's a masterpiece. And I would really like to take a few seconds now just to thank my friend, Graeme Bywater. Thank you, chap, for encouraging me to watch it. It rests on 13 acres of earth over the very center of hell. Here's the first motion picture to offer to the daring, a look into the final maddening space between life and death. The last house on the left, to avoid fainting, keep repeating. It's only a movie, only a movie, only a movie. Sites and sounds far beyond anything you've tested. The last house on the left, to avoid fainting, keep repeating. It's only a movie, only a movie, only a movie. Take as much as you can. It rests on 13 acres of earth over the very center of hell, a disturbed gang of youths, a kidnap, torture and murder, two teenage girls, unbeknownst to the gang, the parents of one of the girls live nearby. So yeah, as I just mentioned, I was encouraged initially to finally watch this one by Graeme Bywater. And let's be honest, who else am I going to choose to come on here and chat about this video nasty with me, except for him. He has loved this one for an age and we had this fantastic discussion about it, which you're about to hear. And I recorded and I edited this thing together for you lovely horror lovers out there. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did recording it. What a brilliant film this is. Please welcome back to the podcast myself and Graeme Bywater, we're chatting all about the mad and messed up world of last house on the left. [Music] If you're kind of judging a film by the poster up and something like Jackie Edge would have been a video nasty. You know what I mean? So if it had gone by its original name, the same I guess with I spit on your grave. I know it's got a little bit more of a history, but that was obviously originally called The Day of the Woman, which again, if you were like the BBC going through these lists of films, you probably wouldn't question that title. Do you know what I mean? I spit on your grave. I mean like, oh hang on a second. Maybe your followers with a little bit of trivia. You know the famous poster for I spit on your grave with the girl from behind holding the wife. Do you know who that is? No. That's Demi Moore. No way. Yeah, Google it man. That was her first photoshoot. Yeah, that was Demi when she was like 18, 19. Awesome. There you go. There you go. That's a bit of crazy trivia. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, you can tell it's not Camilla Keaton. Have you seen the film? Have you seen the remake? Oh, God. Yeah. The original is, well, it's, it's one of a kind man. There's a documentary on it on Amazon Prime about it now and the history of it and the family, because of the family who put it together because obviously Mears actually was married to Camilla Keaton when they made it. And they made it together and they did not plan it to be some sleazy exploitation film. They wanted to make some sort of big feminist statement. She directed loads of it with him. They hadn't seen each other for about 20 years, and then they, they meet for the first time in this new documentary and discuss it. Just incredible. So it's, I think, it's called living with, I speak on your grave, I think. Or yeah, living with it, living with it. Or it's on numbers and primes, sure, because I saw it a few months back. And that's a really good documentary because it kind of explains what they were trying to do as opposed to what it resulted in. And I say, I think making that film with the idea of making it, you know, a feminist movie is much more of a savory prospect than someone 25 years later remaking it to be as sort of as possible. I don't understand why they remade that film. It's like a 40 minute rape scene in the New Grave, right? Right. Well, what part of that needs remaking? I don't, I just don't get that. That doesn't make any sense. Remake the burning, remake the slayer, remake something that could benefit from remake. You can't benefit from, you can't claim that film like I spilled new grave really needs that much attention that it needs to be re-appraised. I wanted to ease myself in to watch this. So, my history with, and this is a perfect way to go into last house on the left. So, I got given a gift from my wife, which was I spit on your grave. Okay, okay, watch 10 minutes and I turned it off. I was just like, you know what, this is not for me, the whole of the atmosphere of this is about 10 years ago. I don't like it. I don't like the idea of rape on screen. So that we are talking about the original, yeah. Yeah, the original. Yeah. It was just too much. So, ejected, sold. I just couldn't handle the whole vibe of it. And I always can get the last house on the left, I spit on your grave confused. So, I've never watched it even now, because I just, I think they're the same thing. Clearly, that's not the case. No, very different. But, you know, doing this project, I was like, right, I'm going to get to these films. So, when you said last house on the left, went and bought it. And not only was I like, oh, actually, it's really good. I was so blown away. I was so impressed. It's one of those films that I watched straight again after. Because I couldn't believe what I was watching. I can't believe that I've missed a film like this. It's just gone. And I've just discovered it now. So incredible when this happened. So, I just want to say thank you for from the off for like going straight for this one because you're really stunning. It's my Valentine's Day present here. I was surprised I was genuinely surprised you've not seen this one because for me last house is up there with text chains or night they're living dead. It's a completely essential horror film. And it is, it is, it ages incredibly. And, you know, I watched the blue race I said to you for the first time two or three days ago. I had the scene on Blu Ray before. I was, I had to go outside and get some fresh air afterwards because it just looked so incredible. And there were details and things I'd never seen before on the DVD. And I was obviously watching it in mind of you having recently seen it and just thinking, Oh my God, Paul's just seen this for the first time ever. It's incredible, isn't it? Such a masterpiece. Yeah, it was one of those where the phone starts next to me and then just gets put to the side because I can't, can't watch it. And it does happen every now and again. And like a film does take me aback like that and I'll watch it straight again afterwards. So, you know, it's not the only one but like for it to happen with a video nasty on my word, what luck. We got to start with Wes Craven here before we go into the film itself. I haven't seen his non horror film, but everything else I've seen hills have eyes to I hated, which is sort of, yeah, it's just this mash up of hills have eyes for a few extra scenes. And have you seen my soul to take one of the second to last film. No, no, I think the last, the last one of his I've seen is probably red eye, which I quite like that's great film. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. So this was a tick as like right last house brilliant finally let's do it. What was your history with Wes Craven you a fan. Yeah, I mean it's impossible to not be really isn't it when you're a, you're a nerd. Right. And so, obviously I think the first Wes Craven film I ever saw was hills have eyes. And I had it on a VHS. Do you remember those gold VHS boxes that were from forefront video I think they were from. They were just so iconic and I'm sure it was probably a cut version of the film but I watched that. Over and over and over again and I absolutely loved it. But looking back now, having seen the scene of Stephen, like an Elm Street films, deadly blessings, last house, the first screen film. Hills of eyes is not one of my favorites to be honest. I think it's brilliant. But it pales in comparison to like first, like my Elm Street, personally, I think. And last house is this is masterpiece, isn't it? I mean none of his other films can have caused quite that much controversy and continue to I mean I spent on your grave and last house would, I mean I spent your grave still isn't uncut in the UK you still can't get that. Yeah, it's still missing two scenes from it. And but last house is now uncut, which is cool. I remember working at HMV in like 2001, and every other day there'd be some, some little geek coming in and going, oh, it's anyway okay last house on the left. No, no, no, not at all. It's you're not going to get that film. And then it finally came out. It was missing like four or five minutes and I think Anka Bay did this little trick where they put the deleted scenes that the BBC had rejected as an Easter egg on the DVD so you can watch them anyway. And those I think they got withdrawn pretty quickly because I don't think, you know, they can't use the excuse we had a loophole that like those scenes were on the disc just not in the film. So that was the first time and I'd I'd ever seen anything, any sign of that film because it was just a mystery and then there was there was a shopping Camden locks. Yeah, there's a long time ago, 20 years ago, a little comic shop sold like action figures and stuff. And I just went in there and randomly said, can you get last house on the left, and he said I've got a copy on video here so paid 20 quid for it went back to my bed sit in Houston, which is like the first place I had in London. The blinds stuck it on and watched it and it was quite an experience. So I've been watching the film on and off since 2001, 2002, so many times so it showed it's so many people. I used to use it as like a shock tactic when I'd been to the pub with some friends and we come back and I put the left guy and just watch them and go, what's wrong with you then. Yeah, but now as I say now seeing this new version of it, the one that you bought, it's made me love it even more, because you know as nasty as it is, it's so it's, it's a beautiful, beautiful movie, which I'm sure I don't think anyone will ever say that again. Well, that's it is, it's, I think it's ugly, beautiful, it's beautiful when it's ugliness, it's beautiful in why it shows us, I don't know, it looks impressive, what like for a first time out filmmaker. Right, this is so, so impressive. I've interviewed a lot of women for the show recently, and so what has sort of validated me to actually I'll actually get over yourself and just watch these things is that they love them so much. Like there is such a ban for both of those films we're talking about so both both last house and I spit on your grave. A few of the women that I've spoken to recently have just said, I love those films, they say so much they, and also they generate so much talk so much information that can be discussed and built upon. And you know, and they're great time capsules as well, a veneera so it sort of give validated in my head right just get over this. I can't bear to watch this thing, and just put it in so that that's my history with it that's your history with it let's get in. Okay, let's talk about these these. Well, David Hess, as I said, having met David Hess. Wow, very very just before he died, very nice man actually I can't believe that I can't believe it's a nice guy. Yeah, yeah he's really cool but really nice chap. The thing that I love about David Hess and his movies he's so incredibly convincing. He's so just so realistic and so perfect for that role that you can't imagine anyone else playing that because Martin is it Martin code who plays the buntly younger police officer. He was meant to be crude originally. They were right. They were friends and Martin cove actually he's in the karate kid isn't it? Yeah. David, David has the reason I think he's so brilliant is because obviously he also wrote and performed all of the music and so he was a musician he wasn't an actor. So where's Craig and I think where's Craig may have even known him from college campus or something like this he brought him in. And I think David Hess was trying to sell this music more than his acting and you know and then obviously got offered the part because he looks so menacing and crude obviously was originally I think called Kruger because Freddy Kruger it's like an early kind of idea of him. Yeah, that makes sense. And yeah, he's just, he's amazing. Fred Lincoln, he plays weasel. His character is quite creepy as well he was actually dating. He's the actress who play Phyllis Lucy Grantham those two with eight in your life. So they actually had quite a bit of fun with what they were doing because they were they had a history and I mean everyone was stoned during the making of this film. It was you know it wasn't exactly a bunch of straight edge you know a student's making a film it's a bunch of hippies. You've seen pictures of Wes Craven on the set of this film. That guy is baked. Yeah, Fred Lincoln, he's a strange one. I mean his character is very unusual because I only noticed this on the Blu-ray because the sound quality was so much better. Talking about, it's talking about David Hess's character, Kruger Stillo being the escape convict who's slayed a priest and to nuns, but then when he gets to the talking about weasel, it mentions that he was, he was a child molester. Right. Well that just brings a whole completely different element to the gang doesn't it because that's a very different thing to someone shooting or killing a priest. So that's a really weird thing that didn't really need to be added to it. They could have just said he was also a murderer. So you spend the whole film now thinking, well this guy's into kids. Yeah. And then Sadie, I think Sadie's actually brilliant isn't he, Jeremy Raine. She's brilliant. I mean she's, her acting is fantastic in this film. She's so, she's so cool as well. I love her hair and her white socks and her little pencils. She's got a style icon from 1972. What did you think of the gang? I think the one with the nickname Frog. Oh, Willow. Yeah, Junior. Yes. I think he only got cast maybe because he could do that impression. That's wonderful, one impression, all the way to get this film really. Yeah. It's good casting though. It's a very believable gang. And I think even though it's incredibly low budget, you know, exploitive, the acting is fantastic in this film makes extremely believable. I mean, perhaps not Gaylord Saint James. Yes. What a name. His, he looks like he's got a badger stuck on his head. You know, it's like this huge big kind of 50s cliff with this white stripe and he's like, he's not very good. I'd say his acting is the weak link in the film, but everyone else is, you know, the cops are amazing. The cops are hilarious. The way they juxtapose the violence with them just sitting playing checkers. Right. There's a couple of things we're brushing over here. So we can't go into bad actors here without mentioning at the beginning the postman. He says, she's about the prettiest piece I've ever seen. And it just makes you think, oh, no, we're into here. This is the film that we're going to witness now. And it's totally right. It's what a great setup, because now you know what you're in for. It's already dirty and sweaty and vile. And it's sort of like, okay, now I'm sort of, it's a nice easing. I just this throw-off gross comment. And he says it so poorly as well. So I love that they kept that take. Just use the finest piece of it. Yeah. Yeah, it's very strange. Right. So I'm going to go into my sort of my favorite bits. And there's loads. I love that they're going to see a concert, the girls. A bloodlust. A bloodlust, right? Well, I want to call a bad bloodlust. Damn it. It's such a good name. I've always thought. Yeah. That's good. All right. So I was in. I was like, you know what, I'm in here. They're going to see this concert. I also like the parents at home, the way that they're called with their daughter, very modern sort of family dynamic there, where like, even though, you know, he's like, oh, I don't know. They're being really progressive parents and allowing the daughter to go out and go to this gig. That's pretty funny that's like that. What's this tits business? She's like, I'm no one wears bras anymore. Come on. Get with it. So, yeah, I like that. But I also really like when this is all kicked off, when it's all gone down towards the end of the film with the mum and dad getting there. And doing sort of a home alone style traps and like the the subterfuge of like taking the guy by the river and just saying, like, I really want to fuck you sort of thing. It's weird to get in that way. I just thought this is getting darker and darker and darker and it's already been so fucking bleak that it's like, it's really got me. And it's just not further and further. And I was so impressed with that. Like, this isn't a 50 minute. We're not sure what we're doing, but it feels like we can stretch it to 50, like with acts, and let's, let's be out like this was fully conceptualized and they knew exactly what they were doing where they wanted to go. And apparently they will let in people just riff like some of this stuff isn't in the yeah, I think it's fantastic. Yeah. So, a couple of your favorite moments in this film, what really makes you like, love it more than other films. I absolutely adore the sequence when when Phyllis and Mary. First sort of get ready for their evening out where they're sitting on the rocks having a bottle of wine and just talking about the summer turning into autumn. And then they're in their car driving around listening to the radio broadcast of the villains. I think that sequence is just amazing. It's so beautifully shot. The soundtrack is amazing. The tone of it is just, it's so brooding. You know that this isn't going to go well, but you're just trying to enjoy those last minutes those girls have got before things turn out for the worst. I think the scene when Phyllis is does a runner, and she's running through the woods and there's that rattling sound effect. And then she walks into the cemetery and she thinks she's made it and then they all just kind of circle around her. That's just, it's just so beautiful and knowing full well that all of that was shot at Sean Cunningham's mum's house and backyard. Yeah, it's just to me, it's so kind of homegrown so real that sequence because you know that the road by the cemetery is like, you know, that was the house that produces mum. This was where they probably spent their youth. It wasn't some set. It was where they probably actually were hanging out. Yeah, just I just love that vibe that you can tell they know the woods really well because they've obviously the way it's filmed the way where they're running and. Oh man loves doing that he loves having that you're almost safe. You're almost there's a car. Like you're there and this is the first time this first film and he's already like, like doing that also your house it's across the road. Yeah, it's just there. That's really that's one of the most disturbing parts when they get out with the when they finally get to the woods and the car breaks down and Mary gets out the trunk. And she turns around as you can see her post mailbox a few feet away. But that is it's so intense and I think we have to mention Sandra Cassell's acting in this film because it's gone down in history that she wasn't acting for a lot of that. And that she was having a really tough time with it, which does it does add this sort of element of unease to it. And I don't know how much of it is true but you know when she's getting really upset when they're stripping, she wasn't wanting to do that sequence. Right. So that's all quite genuine. So, you know, we don't know if you may have. Yeah, she hasn't. I don't think she's spoken about film since 1972 or done an interview. So she obviously wasn't on it. I remember the this was quite the thing with this film and another reason why I didn't want to get involved with it 10 years ago or so because there was a lot of that around the film about and also at the time it was Kubrick and the shining about how he was treating that set. Yeah, so that was all in the air at the time. And this film was in amongst, you know, the mix of harsh directors. So it was just another thing but you don't know how much with regards to this film in particular is over the years just built up with the evil dirty nasty reputation. And, you know, so much footage as well. There's so much footage that was cut. I mean, this is one of the things about the film. There is a remarkable amount of continuity errors and just little mistakes the data, not things that matter. You know, one shot, you'll see that junior is wearing the piece necklace and then the next shot. She's wearing it. And just things like that, which makes you think Christ how much material must have hit the cutting room floor because I've seen lots and lots of daily takes that don't have sound in this film just on random videos over the years and DVDs and this, this, I think, shopping, a lot of the more gratuitous stuff out actually gives it more impact because when they, when they finally get Lucy Grantham and they're standing here and you see a brief shot of Phyllis pulling out one of her intestines. All right, that scene went on for like minutes, like three or four minutes where they're just pulling stuff out and just playing with all of her insides and stuff. And it's really, really, really nasty. It takes away from the power of you just seeing that brief split second of it. You think, Jesus, did I just see that? Because it's that's quite an unusual thing to have in a film of that type because, you know, before that, you obviously had like the living dead. And neither living dead had a bit of gut munching in it, but it was all far fetched and it was more of a fantasy. Unless zombies are real. But with last house, I mean, that sequence is like, why the hell did they disavow that? What was the point in that? It was, it's so brief. It just, it's incredibly disturbing that sequence. And the fact they just sort of dump her body and then the next minute they're carrying around her severed arm, which is clearly moving. This, well, all right, so that bit really got me. It really made me, I was taken aback watching it. I was just like, wow, okay, that was so harsh, so well put together. I was so impressed with it. And I was so shocked by it, which I guess is the director's intent. The other bit of this film that really got me was when Hess, after all this, he takes a few seconds and you can see in his face that he's thinking about what he's done and he feels sick. And it's really, it's, I don't know if they're trying to impress some humanity within these characters, like they're actually human. After all, they know that I'm wrong, but then they wash, wash themselves clean and everything. They're washing off that sort of regret, maybe I don't know what it's meant to show, but that little lingering look about their regret and about what I just done harsh. It really gets you, doesn't it? I didn't expect this film. She's in the background sort of praying. Yeah, it is. I mean, obviously, the way they build up Mary's character to that point, makes it so much more harrowing because it's made very clear at the beginning that she is a virgin, and that she isn't a girl in the city she lives in the country she has a peaceful life. And she's kind of goes into this sordid nightmare that ends up with that and the way she walks into the river, almost to cleanse herself. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very, it's a very emotional film. I mean, it's, it's extremely emotional and the things you feel throughout the movie and the fact that crew, later on, just tells his son to kill himself, and he does. It's like, there you go. See you later. You see like an instant of he's gutted about what he's just done. And it's only an instant this time. It's not a few seconds lingering on him. And then it's over. So he's gone. He's just gone at this point. I don't know ecstatic about all this bedlam that he's created. I've got to talk about a few things I'm not sure about in the film. The reason why I didn't give it a 10 reason why I gave it a nine. Nine's pretty high. It really is. Like, honestly, I just was blown away, top to bottom. But there's these things. Right. And I don't know how I feel about them. I don't think they're bad. I don't think they're good. I'm just like, I don't know yet. Remember, this is my, I've seen it two times. Okay. So we've got the bumbling cops. So I think that may be a bit too bumbling. I don't, I don't know yet. But maybe, especially the bit where they're sitting on the roof of the truck. They just come straight from comedy where I didn't particularly want comedy. I didn't want Liberty at that moment. Yeah. So there's that bit. And also, I love the bit where they're sort of fucking in the car. But I don't know how you feel about it. The musical, because you've mentioned, you love them, the music here. It's so harrowing at one moment, what you're watching. And then you've got over the top, you've got this acoustic ballad, or you've got during that fucking scene. There is this music going on that is just describing that scene. Yes. Good. I think it's brilliant. Okay. I think that's what makes it. I mean, you don't forget that. Do you know what I mean? You're like, yeah, exactly. And it's the same with them. I think with cannibal Holocaust. I mean, it's sort of like a risotto lady soundtrack. I mean, that sequence with the sea turtle. We've all seen it and we've not enjoyed it. But that is harrowing because of the fact that this is an incredible soaring classical music. It's not the music you'd expect in horror film. And so you remember it. And there's no, I mean, there's nothing in last house that's particularly as far as the soundtrack goes. I think that's one of the strongest things about it. Is that something that you think I'll get used to over time. Because I'd say, I just don't know right now. I don't know. I can't wait to watch this thing again. But the fact that he also has his music. Absolutely bizarre. I don't know how I feel about it. It's too fresh. It's too raw. I can't imagine the film without it. And I think it is very strange. But then, would the scenes of violence have the same impact if they weren't, you know, embedded within these particular scenes of comedy. Because the sequence when they first get to the villains flat, the apartment, they're in whatever the bed set where they're trying to get some weed. I mean, David has is in the middle of a sentence when he gets his knife out and he says, if you make one more sound. And then like that, it comes to the parents making a birthday cake this thing to this sort of circus music. It shouldn't work. And it's a bit, it makes you think, oh man. But the more you watch it, the more you just realize that Wes Craven was just having a really good time and making something completely unique. Because it's his first feature film. I mean, he worked with Sean Cunningham on the film together. But that wasn't Wes's film, Wes's baby was last house. You know, I think, I mean, the same with Toby, but I don't know if he was even necessarily trying to make a horror film. This is the thing, people see these films as horror movies, but I think Wes has said many times that it was just his reaction to the atrocities of Vietnam. You know, things that were going on because it was around was it down the same time with just after the Rolling Stones gig at Altman when the hells angels killed some guy. And I think Wes Craven was just like, okay, well, you know what, I'm just going to show everyone what they're missing on the screen and just show them, you know, what you don't see on the news. But let's just do whatever we want and anything goes. And it is a chaotic movie, isn't it? I mean, it is, it is a mess. But I can't imagine it any other way. I think it's perfect. I think, yeah, if there's any one sequence, there's one sequence in the film, or maybe two that I would definitely have changed. Okay. And I think they almost ruin the momentum. There's the scene when the mum finds out that the murderers are staying in her house, she opens the suitcase, she realizes that Mary's stuff is in there. And they go down to it, they run down to the river in the middle of the night, which is a really beautiful sequence because it's obviously filmed at dusk, isn't it? And it's lighting is incredible and the music on that scene. But when they get to the river, Mary is lying on the river. And for a brief moment, she's moving. And then she's dead within a split second. And it's like, why did they, but if they'd found her body as if she'd crawled out of the river and tried to make it home, that would have been amazing. But the fact that she's briefly alive for a second, and the mum says, "Isn't nothing you can do?" And the dad says, "She's dead." Well, why wasn't she dead three seconds ago when she was moving? That's a really strange scene. And maybe if she'd have been alive for longer and they've tried to resuscitate and they tried to look after her, that would have been fine. But that scene is so important because obviously they're finding their baby, their firstborn child. In this moment where they've discovered that their life will never be the same again. And it's a really brief, rushed, cobbled scene that doesn't work. And then when they take her home, they just dump her on the settee face down as if she's like a sack of potatoes. Do you know what I mean? And the other thing that I'll always kind of find a bit of, the shame is the fact that after all of this chasing with the chainsaw and all of this mayhem, carnage and the house getting demolished and everyone kicking everything over, you don't even see crude getting killed. I mean, it's like, "Oh, I love the fact that the cops come in at just at that moment and say, "No, stop, stop, stop." And you hear the chainsaw, but you don't see it. And then when it cuts the crew's body, you can only see it from here down. So are you meant to assume he was decapitated? I don't really, it just seems a bit loose that sequentially. Okay. And this way crude. It's just fucked up your life here, mate. We want to see what you're doing to him. We don't want it to just suddenly pan to some cops having a laugh asking for some more cake or whatever. But again, I guess that's part of the weirdness of the movie, isn't it? Well, it's also like one of the first times this sort of thing has been done in such a gruesome and realistic way. So in a way, they're sort of inventing the wheel here. So certain things are going to work, certain things aren't. And you can see as cinema has moved on, as horror has moved on, they've kept so much of it, but chucked away the little bits that whatever director think, actually, like you just said, you know, maybe we should be showing that next time. So there is that to think about. But I get what you're saying there, especially with that end thing. I love the secrets with Jeremy Rain at the end, because as you were saying earlier, a lot of it was sort of made up as they went along off the couch, you know, and the scene when she's running, and then she suddenly lands in the swimming pool. I'm pretty sure that wasn't in the script because that's a very genuine sound of surprise. And I love because she's just like, Oh, shit, because it's dark out. She didn't see that swimming pool was there. And you can kind of tell that that bit was, you know, perhaps not scripted, but I absolutely love the fact that when the chainsaw is finally coming down and crew. Jeremy Rain tries to climb up the pool and the mom's just like, straight across her neck. And then she has the same demise as Mary had when she dies in the water. Good riddance to bad rubbish. That's what I say. I will say, David Hesse, right? Don't watch House and the Angel of the Park because it's terrible. I've got to see. Don't watch the UK version missing so much of it. I think you can watch it in full on YouTube. Yeah. I think someone's uploaded it, but that is, Regara Diadato trying to remake Last House of the Left and David Hesse has exactly the same character, but it's just such a boring, boring film. It's, I don't really understand why that film is being with some sort of classic as people love it. When you compare it to the other films of Diadato and Last House of the Left, it's just a crappy Italian exploitation film. But do let me know when you watch it because I'd like something. Yeah, of course I will. Okay. Before we go, and I want to say thank you for your time. People won't know this, but we've actually talked about the axe and last house in one go. So, yeah, appreciate your time here, but I'd be a fool not to ask you this final question. So. Is it about me being David Hesse? Yeah. Oh, yeah. First of all, how did you meet him? Frightly. First. 2010, 2011, Fright first, there was this awful, awful movie called Smash Cup, which starred David Hesse and the porn star Sasha Gray. And it looked like it might be a bit of a laugh from the poster. She's a nurse and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so what I watch in this film with a friend at Frightfest, and my friend is sort of saying, that guy behind us, is that David Hesse? And I was like, oh fuck, David Hesse is sitting behind us in the cinema. So we had a chat with him after the film, really sweet, like, but then, oh man, he went up to the stage, did a little Q and A and then pulled out the acoustic guitar and did a gig. And it was terrible. Everyone was just walking out. He was doing all these songs, like, hey man, I'm still on the set. He's here. Oh my god, shut up man. And he started doing the soundtrack to Last House and just doing all the songs. And by this point, there was like maybe four people in the cinema still, because it was just, he's a good bloke and he was a really nice chap, but nobody wanted him to pull the guitar out. Because it went on and on and on. But you don't like me. There you go. And then he died. Well, it sounds like he did on the stage there. Yes. Hopefully there's footage on YouTube of that somewhere. You can probably hear people going, oh god, no, no, no, no. You know where I'm going. You know where I'm going after this. Right. Okay. I can't top that. But I've got to ask you, because they all end like this. I do think this one is deserved of the tag video nasty. We're in our bad language on this podcast, aren't we? Yes indeed. We are. Encourage it. Fuck yeah. Of course it is. Imagine seeing this film in 1972. And imagine seeing it in 1984. Imagine seeing it in 2009. You know, it's like, it's not, the power of this movie has not changed. And, you know, I, I have two kids. You've got, you've got children, haven't you? Yeah. Or one? Yeah. And yeah, this is definitely not a film that I had one. An unwilling teenager or any age to pick up off the video shelf. So yeah, I think there are a few films in the video nasty list, which 100% are for adults. And so the certification on these films is vital. I don't think it should have been bad. No, I don't think that it should have been, you know, confiscated and messed up and released in so many different cuts. But I think these films should have been rated higher to begin with. That would have been a better thing to do than basically have full grown adults. Like you and me still struggling to watch them to this day. You know what I think? That's weird. So I agree. Yes, it, you know, double X, triple X, whatever, like you have to be 21 to watch it fine. You know, and again, it was originally called the sex crime of the century. Wasn't that I think that was the original title or crew can company. But last house on the left is the ultimate horror night, isn't it? Like the end, the house and the left hand path. So it's like genius title. Yeah, absolutely. Do you have to already be a total horror night for this? Or would you go to just a regular cine file that you need to watch this? I think you would. But you have got many more years invested than I. Do you think it holds up today? Do you think that it should be seen by contemporary viewers? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a vital film. I mean, I can't think of anything else from that era that has the same impact and is so unique. Unique is, obviously, a word that definitely describes this film because nothing else like it. As you were saying, it would be like people would say, I spit on your grave and last house on the left. Very different films. But, you know, similar in tone, but there isn't a single note of music in, I spit on your grave, the entire film. And it's over a hundred minutes. God. Yeah. It's about to come on my word. I was, yeah, I would definitely recommend it. I mean, I've shown, when I really love a film, I make a point of trying to show it to as many people as possible. My wife seemed last to us on the left and she wasn't particularly enamored by it. She wasn't disturbed as such, but when she sees me sort of going on about it and playing the soundtrack over dinner and stuff. But, you know, she's a big horror fan as well. Like, she really loves her horror films. We've been through so many, so many movies together. I'm always genuinely surprised what she really loves and what she doesn't really have any thoughts about. And last house is one of the ones where she just didn't really, it was just, yeah, I've seen it. It was all right. And yet she watched the uncut version of the Serbian film and thought it was a masterpiece. Interesting. Now I can't get over the thought of an image in my head of you eating dinner listening to David. I'll do it tonight, man. You know, it's jolly news, isn't it? Listen, I'm going to say one thing. Last house. If anyone out there who's listening to this has seen it, which hopefully many, many people have, I would highly recommend the Italian film Night Train Murders because it's basically a remake of last house. And it's absolutely brilliant. Really, really, really disturbing, very well made, really creepy, shameless, have released that one uncut. And I think you, Paul, especially, you'd like it. If you like trains and murder, there you go. That's the film for you. Two of my most favorite things. Thomas the Tank Engine meets last house on the left. So there we go. On that bombshell. Great. Thank you so much for being a part of that. No pleasure as ever. [Music] Having listened to this soundtrack several times, I can honestly say that I just don't get it at all. This music is written and composed by the musician, David S. Who, of course, as you just heard, is also playing the unhinged menace of this movie. The character of Krug. I know this movie wouldn't be what it is without it, and it is essential to the story and to the legend of last house on the left. I get that. And for me, it still works pretty well separated from the movie, which always helps when I'm listening back to these things. I think that is probably because this is largely song based. Tracks like "Wait for the Rain" and "Now You're All Alone" and "Ice Cream Song". They just give me the absolute creeps with their Americana '70s radio-friendliness and what I know this music covers on the film. The more electronica parts like "Goodbye Dick", they're even more bizarre. They wouldn't feel out of place in Woody Allen's movie "Sleeper" or René Lilleau's "Fantastic Planet". The weirdest moment, though, is for the end credits, which would work just as well for a film like "Porkies". It's got this bouncy rhythm, it's got the dialogue that runs you through some of the movie's key themes, and I was just scratching my head listening to this. It's bloody mad. I'm going to leave you with some of that. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ So that was number two. Last house on the left. And if you've stuck with the series from the very beginning, you'll have figured out my number one pick, I reckon. It is "Rigero" or "Rigero" or "Roger". Dear Diodato's incredible and incredibly divisive "Cannibal Walla Cost". Here we go. ♪ So, the man from Deep River, that was first. Have you seen it? Because I haven't, but I can't wait to obtain a copy just to sink my teeth into. But the most infamous "Cannibal" movie, it's just got to be this one. It's "Cannibal Walla Cost". Directed by "Rigero" Diodato, it is a film that was shot in 1979 in the Amazon rainforest, but it took until 2001 for it to see a UK release. And that came with several cuts. Also, the problematic creation of this film is well documented. In fact, "Shudders" recent documentary cursed films, that TV series. On season two, they have a full episode dedicated to "Cannibal Walla Cost". You can have it that as well. It gives you all the background information that you'll need going forward. There's so much that I have a problem with with this film. Just off my head, I can think of those unpaid native tribes people just standing in a burning hut without any safety precautions at all. And that would normally be enough to shut up production down. And here, it's just one of the minor issues that I've got with this film. People were definitely exploited all over the place, but the director exploited everyone. Without race in mind, everyone was going to be exploited as long as this artistic vision was achieved. And another point that I would love to make is just that the gang rape here is horrible and it's unflinching. This film is full of potential triggering moments. So just be warned if you've not gone at it before. At the cast here, they were made to sign documents in order for them not to take any other work for a year or so, just to create the mystery of whether they actually really died or not. And what you see on screen, it is pretty convincing. And I can definitely see why the court saw that this was snuff footage that's contained within this thing. It's only due to the way in which the whole film was pieced together. It's strange. The first section of this film is relatively slow. It sets up the USA staff and the Amazon-based film crew stuff. But without it, the ending wouldn't hit so hard, and it wouldn't feel so raw and so real. And I did find that by the point where the film crew just burns down the tribe's hut to stage this Mondo style incident, I thought that this film, despite all of its faults, was incredible. The gore looks incredible. The story, it's unflinching. I can't look away. This film is making a comment on exploitation and its overall theming and its plot, but it's also being perhaps the most exploitative film that I've ever seen due to this storytelling technique and the graphic nature of what's on the screen. The film is meant to leave a bad taste in your mouth and it really does. It's innovative and it breaks all sorts of boundaries that should never be crossed. So why do I love it so much? This is Cannibal Holocaust. ♪♪ ♪♪ For young and fearless Americans, children of the Space Age armed with cameras, microphones, and curiosity, Alan Gates. Faye Daniels to enter to cameraman and inseparable friends. Jack Anders, and Barney N'mat. Or youngsters who never came back. Are they still alive? And if so, where? These are the questions that the rescue team sponsored by the New York University and the Pan-American Broadcasting System hope to be able to answer. ♪♪ ♪♪ A good war. It's... It's unbelievable. It's... It's horrible. I can't understand the reason for such a cold time. I must have something to do with something. ♪♪ Difficult doesn't exist. The impossible takes just a little more time. We'll be back. We have Felipe, our guide. ♪♪ So here is that letterboxed synopsis. Can a movie go too far? A New York University professor returns from a rescue mission to the Amazon rainforest, with the footage shot by a lost team of documentarians who were making a film about the area's local cannibal tribes. That seems reasonable enough to me. So here we go. We are welcoming back to Patreon to a year in horror, grey and bi-water. Now, he's previously joined us on acts and also last house on the left for Patreon, but I don't want you to forget. Don't forget it. He also chat with us about the Slayer on the 1982 big hitter on the main feed, and also creature from the Black Lagoon on the '50s one. It is always a fascinating chat with Graham. Whenever he comes on the show, he just knows all his stuff, and he's probably more obsessed with horror than me. So with little more ado, please welcome back on the show, it's Graham, bi-water. We're chatting all things cannibal Holocaust. [Music] Hello Graham. Hi. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. Welcome back. This is a weird... I don't know how to react to these films. It's weird because I really love them. We really love them. I never thought growing up, I've avoided them at all costs because I know there was animal cruelty in there, and even when I became a vegan and things, it was just another nail. I'm not going to bother with these. And I love them both. They're so good. They are such good films. So basically, we're going to do two parts here just for the listeners. We're going to kick off all cannibal Holocaust, and then in a week's time also, you're going to have the cannibal ferrocks. But we're going to begin with cannibal Holocaust. Now, what's your history with this one? Well, when I was, I guess, 16, 17, there was a blockbusters in Tumbridge in Kent, and I started chatting with this guy in there. You said, "Yeah, I can get all those video nasties for you. I'm cut and I thought, "Oh my God, can you get cannibal Holocaust?" And I spit on your grave. Those are the two I wanted to see. I don't know why. Just those two particular ones, because the poster art looked really good, and they were the most, what, two of the most talked about. So this guy, like a week later, I gave him 20 pounds. He gave me a 180-minute tape that had... How old were you, first of all? I think 15, maybe unbelievable. Talk about that. He was a really nice guy, actually, a really nice guy. He gave me a video that had what was meant to be cannibal Holocaust and I spit on your grave. So I went round to my friend's house that night, and he's not even into horror films, and I just said, "We're going to watch these two." So we just said, and we watched them. And my heart sank because "Cannibal Ferrocks" was on the tape, and not "Cannibal Holocaust." I was like, "Oh, wow." "This is the wrong film." So we watched anyway, and it had quite an effect, I have to say, because I didn't know... I thought "Cannibal Ferrocks" was just some shitty knock-off from years later. I didn't know much about that film at the time. I'd heard of it. But it was absolutely mind-blowing. It felt like you were being beaten up watching that film because every stage of the film, it gets more and more barbaric. But it's so pulpy and so loud. It's like a comic book of that film, because it's taking the piss the whole way through it, and it's deliberately just bombarding you. As opposed to "Cannibal Holocaust," which is actually quite a poetic film, and it's got a message somewhere, somewhere around there. And then, yeah, as soon as "Cannibal Ferrocks" finished, I spent on your grave, started, and like, "Oh, wow, this is a lovely double bill there." And then the tape ran out halfway through I spent on your grave. No. On the tape. So I took it back to him. I said, "Well, I didn't get the film I wanted, and I got half of the other one." So he managed to get me the correct film. So I did end up getting a version of "Cannibal Holocaust," but it was really, really cut. And it wasn't cut in the way that sensors would probably do nowadays where they just remove a sequence. It was cut so that certain clips were cut, but the music was still over the top. So the music was-- You don't have a black screen? No, no, no, no. The bit they were missing, but they hadn't edited the whole scene, if that makes sense, so that it was kind of the music. It was going do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, because it was chopping out bits of it. So I was sitting there thinking, "Well, this is obviously either really badly made or it's cut to ribbons." And then a chap who-- I'm always getting videos of people in shops, but-- A shop on Denmark Street when, like, 2000, 2001, he gave me the uncut version of it. And then I realized that this was a seriously dangerous movie because I don't feel like the atrocities that inflict on the human beings in this film are that intense. Like, they're nasty. It's pretty horrible, but you can tell it's all fake. But because of the animal footage and the-- There's a scene in it when they're watching a reel called "The Last Road to Hell" where they're watching all the executions. Because that sequence is real as well, it just leaves you wondering what on earth is going on on the screen. Are you actually watching something that is a genuine snuff film? Because it does feel like that, doesn't it, throughout, especially the final scene. Is that the part in a film where they're commenting, like, they're watching this and they're saying, "I can't believe that was filmed." Well, it's set up. Yeah, but that scene is real. All those executions are real, which is not-- To be honest, one of the only things that really bothers me is executions beheadings, things like that. I don't want to see anything like that. So that actually, when I found out that that was actually real, I find that's probably one of the most disturbing parts of the film. What's your history with this one? Because I know you only saw it for the first time quite recently, is that right? My history with this film is one of just being frightened by it. It was one of those that was like, there was an exorcist, and then there was this, and I watched the exorcist, and I was frightened by it, but I knew what this contained, so I just didn't want to come to it. So my history of actually watching this was really recent for this podcast, and I was not just blown away by it. I was so taken with it that I just went on this, as most people do, if they get into this sort of thing, any cannibal film I now want to watch. When I see the list of them and see how many there is during this small period of time. Most of them are shit. No way, I'm not having it. Don't watch the just Franco one. Oh my God. I know I have. Yeah. It wasn't good. Cannibals. Yeah. It was not as good as I was hoping. His films are so hard to like, and every now and again, I find one that I really enjoy, but it's rare. And I thought, oh, this could work out. It didn't work. Have you seen Green Inferno? Yeah, I have seen Green Inferno. And do you know what? I thought for the first, perhaps half an hour or so, it was a strong nod to Diadato, and obviously, Lindsey as well. But then, as with all Eli Roth films, it just went into the sort of toilet humor and the weed humor. And it went from something that could actually have been reasonably dangerous, because I think the hostel films, when they came out, they were pretty, they were hot customers. Does that afraid you? Definitely. It's what the kids are saying. Yeah. But Green Inferno just went, it crashed, because there was just, I don't know what he was trying to achieve by it, because it wasn't, it wasn't even when it was meant to be hilarious. You're just shaking your head thinking, oh, he's gone there. It wasn't funny in the same way that, you know, it was kind of a good dialogue to a lot. These films can be quite silly, especially with Cannibal Therox. It's some very silly dialogue, but it's very quotable. But Eli Roth just, what a, it was a missed opportunity. Did you see it? I saw it the week it came out, and I can't remember a thing. Can't remember a thing. I was excited. I know I loved it. I loved it at the time, but I can't remember anything. Watch it again. It's 100%. Yeah. Now I'm on this sort of a cannibal. Well, I don't know what to call it. Cannibal loving. Yeah. So this one, this was just my right. Let's just do it film. Yeah. And I think I told you at the time, I watched it, but for the animal cruelty bits, I had my hand close to my face, so I couldn't see what was on the screen. And when the noise is, because you can't get away from the noises. When the noises were over, that's when I would get back to the film. And we'll get to those bits in a moment. We're going to kick off this. I just want to talk about the direction here of Deidato. I didn't expect a film that's so full of exploitation to have a decent story line. And we'll get into Cannibal Fairock's, that story line when we talk about that one. Because I think that's even better with regards to the story itself. It's far more streamlined. This one is a bit flabby around the edges, but it's very detailed. So you've got the found footage element of this. You've got the whole, as people of the press should we be putting this out there thing with this one. I think the beginning is a little bit flabby, pinged along a bit quicker, but I've gotten hardly any complaints with this. I think it's a really competent film. Are you impressed with it? Yeah, absolutely. I find as interesting you use in the word dangerous and that you were scared because that's actually, you know, growing up with films like Hills of Eyes, Evil Dead, sort of, you know, tongue in cheek, bit of Bloodspatter. Cannibal Holocaust was just one of these things where I had no idea what this was. And I saw the famous Go video cover with the drawing on the front. And it just really scared me. I was like, what the hell is going to go on in this film? So I had to see it, obviously. And when I originally watched the film, I didn't know anything about the animal violence. I didn't know anything about the movie because this is back when you can't, you know, you're sort of reading up on things in whatever publications you can get your hand on. So I might have even heard the name in like the daily telegraph or something, but I just remember reading about the video analysis and it's like Cannibal Holocaust. I'm going to see this film. And I too was just blown away by how clever it was because it has a very strong longevity, this film. And if I were to watch it again now, I'd still be terrified of what is about to come up in the next 90 minutes. Because I think what you're saying about how it was this is a bit flabby and there's a lot going on. That really just adds to it, I think, because you know, you're going to see a five minute turtle evisceration in about an hour's time. So hey, why not just wander around the jungle and have a laugh. That's why it feels so dangerous because now how many times you see it, you are sitting there knowing you're going to be watching something that you shouldn't be seeing, something that's very problematic and something that can't be justified. Yet you're sitting there watching it to the end. And you know, I mean, I think the direction is pretty astonishing in this film because Deidato isn't a good filmmaker. But with this one, he was obviously just completely inspired by his surroundings, inspired by the people he was working with because if you watch his back catalog, it's insane that this is even made by the same person. It's the same, I guess, but who've written it? It's a case of workplace right time. Yeah. And he was famously quite argumentative on set and he wasn't particularly nice to the actors and actresses, which he claims is because everyone was coked up and he wasn't interested in doing drugs. So he'd be trying to shoot a scene and the crew would be just off doing coke somewhere in the jungle and he was getting infuriated. But the animal scenes, which I guess we should approach because that's, you know, I'm an animal lover, always have been. And I still can't quite get my head around what I'm watching with this film because so many people have seen it and they're like, why do you like that film so much? Like, well, it's a really, it's a very good question. I was talking to my wife Lisa this morning because she really, she thinks it's a superb film. But neither of us can actually put our finger on what about what it is about this that we would want to revisit and actually rave about. Do you know what I mean? Because this is, you know, people say, oh, it's not a snuff film, but it is a snuff film if you're a turtle. Yeah. So, you know, there's the scene with the musk rat, the beginning, which is very brief and you just think, oh, fuck, did they need to do that? And then you see them eating it and you're like, okay, fine, yeah, they're making use of it. But the turtle sequence is so playful and so drawn out and so hideous and offensive that it almost becomes a work of art on its own, like a separate film. You've obviously seen that sequence, haven't you? I've seen it for the most part, I guess, because I've now visited this film three times. And I tend to watch a little bit more each time, but then it gets too much. So I probably haven't actually seen the whole four in a bit minutes of it. Well, there's no sound really on that sequence, is there? It's all just resort to lane is soundtrack. And the thing that if those scenes of violence were mixed with some stupid, I don't know, funk music or something. Like the soundtrack to what something really daft, what do we discuss for microwave massacre? If the soundtrack to that was on these scenes, you go, oh, skip this. But because you're bombarded with this beautiful uplifting music, you're drawn to it as if you're watching something that is beautiful. I don't know. I don't know about that. I can't go that far. No, I mean, this is what I mean. This is one of the only films that I watch. And I have trouble explaining to people about because a friend of mine the other day was talking about how the film ID was one of his favorites. And it was, he said, oh, it's kind of a beautiful film in a way. And I said, it's not. He said, well, we can't all like kind of well Holocaust. So I've obviously got, I've got a reputation for liking these nasty films and it makes me feel like. What is that I'm getting from this? But then every single time I watch it, I can't get out of my head. And it's a haunting movie. And it's stuck with me since last like 25 years. I've never got over this film. I've never been able to explain what it is. I like about it so much. Yes. It's even a tough one to discuss, isn't it? That's what you're drawn to the nastiness when there is actually so much more going on in the film. I especially think, you know, the soundtrack and the cinematography is. Saving grace at this film, I think, because as I said, if these scenes were. Soundtracked by some synthesizer saw some crack. Be watching your regular horror. But it makes it almost brings it to the levels of like apocalypse now because of the soaring soundtrack and the soundtrack is astonishing. The soundtrack is probably too good for the film, you know what I mean? None of the other cannibal films have this. This is the thing. It's like. The first ever Italian cannibal one, which is deep river savages on that man from deep river. That's, I don't think that's a very good film. You know, it feels like it was the beginning of something that went very much out of control, which, you know, there's animal violence in deep river savages. But for some reason, none of those films feel like cannibal Holocaust. Cannibal Holocaust has this, this huge nihilistic vibe where it's just saying, fuck you. This is what's going on in this movie, whereas in all the other cannibal films, you can kind of laugh a little bit and say, oh, this is kitsch. This is really pulpy, but cannibal Holocaust has no humor and it has no redeeming qualities, which is why, you know, redeeming qualities as in. A normal human being would want to watch it. It's a tough one. Well, there was this thought pace that I read a few years back and it said that, I mean, you've got the cliche of this film will be fantastic if it wasn't for all those animal deaths. And that's a sort of thing that you will hear a lot of times discussing it with people. But there was a defense piece on this and it was the fact that because it's there, it ups the stakes for the human characters, because you're as a viewer, you are seeing actual death. There's no way to color around it. It's death on the screen and it's setting that atmosphere. Even if the the torture scene death scenes with those animals will place filmed afterwards and then inserted in the film, it still created that atmosphere that as a viewer, that is already in the film. And now these, you know, white Americans and more in more peril now, because you've actually seen that death. So they're saying that it is important for it to be there because it establishes a set path that death is a very real thing, and we're going forward. So I, I, I get that side of things, but still, I think without the animal quality. With that cliche that I would like to see a cut of this without that, and see whether actually this film still resonates with me as much as me having to put my hand over my face. I mean, I guess the question is, like, does the film really need it? Because it's also, so the animal scenes are so perversely drawn out as well. So, you know, as I was saying with the other films, there's, you know, there's a turtle sequence in cannibal pharynx as well. It's kind of like, then you move on to the next scene. But the one in Holocaust is a actual, you know, they've spent a long time. They've got a three camera angles. They've got the soundtrack perfectly lined up. It's not accidental that that sequence was done. Yeah. And in the lot of the other films of this type, you know, you think, well, perhaps they just did, you know, they're adding that little bit, but you know, it's not, you know, just whatever, you can chop it out. It's a hard sense of those sequences from cannibal Holocaust because they are so, they're so integral to the atmosphere of the movie. But you're right. I mean, they did release were shameless released a completely pointless animal free version. Did they cut anything else out on that? No, it's just the animal sequences, but it's done so badly, because they've, I think I said, I said to you before, they're not cut out. They're either sort of blurred, or they put special effects. So they're in sort of slow motion and the screen looks all strange when they're happening. And it just ruins the film. Totally. I'd rather things weren't there or were there. I don't want to see people trying to manipulate it. So they look slightly better. Just chop those scenes out and just get on with the film or don't. You know, you know what I mean? I do. And I think that this, the reason why we're going at this film in such a way, not seen by scene and or any other way is just purely because this has been talked about in the horror community to infinity like there will be going on and on and on. And it's interesting to hear individuals take. So I hope, I hope in your getting stuff from this when you're listening to it out there, but it is difficult to find a unique angle with it when there's shows like Shudders Curse film. Like they've got this whole episode dedicated just to the problems that are on the film. And I want to take something from that, if I may, in the fact that the casting, which I think is great. I just think it's so well cast. I think they're the character of Fay. Thank you. Brilliant. I've not known how to pronounce that. So I'm glad you said it. Anyway, I just think she magical in this and I know she had the worst time. And she's gone on record to say she had the worst time, but it's given us much like in the shining. It's given us a performance for the ages. And again, it's at one of those things well, should I be enjoying her performance this much because I know what she's gone through. It's so tricky with these films. And how do you feel about her performance. Well, she's some, no offense, Fay, but she's she has been known to contradict herself with this because chap I know screened it uncut in what's the cinema in my land called is the. I'm not I can't remember the name. It was a cinema in my land and he did a screening of it. And he this is about five, six years ago, and he got run on board to come and do a Q and A. And there's pictures of her big smiles thumbs up. Yeah, repping animal Holocaust, then you watch the zoomed thing. So the zoom to be called Shada Shada Shada. And she couldn't be any less enthusiastic about the film. So I wonder it's it seems stranger. I think it's perhaps one of those movies that it's obviously haunted her for her whole life as it has with everyone involved with it. But I think she was just as responsible for some of the naughtyness on set to be honest. I mean, there's a sequence where her and name her boyfriend in it. They get naked and have a shag in front of the the villagers. Apparently she was very determined to like make that sequence real. But they didn't want to do that, which is fair enough. So I think with her. She's a brilliant actress. And I think the whole her performance is actually outstanding, especially the end sequence. But I think she's one of these people who perhaps has a real soft book for the film, but also it's very embarrassed by it. And I think, yeah, I think she's just a little bit of a shame in the fact that that is what she is famous for. Which is fair, which is, yeah, if you're not knee deep into horror day in, day out, I can get that because your average Joe off the street. That that would be sat in front of this. It looks in places like, Oh, actually, did that really happen? Like, did they actually kill that person? It's convincing. The footage is grainy enough. We've seen enough found footage to know what looks real and what doesn't. There are pieces, bits and pieces in this. Like this is here, this stat, right? This stat is amazing. The budget is a hundred thousand US dollars roughly. And it didn't get released everywhere, but it got released in the US. And it made two million. And that is a huge amount of word of mouth that's going. Have you seen this? Like this will blow your mind. So those people that go into someone else, let's go next week and see it again, but with a larger group of people, they're not going over that bit with their sat in front of the monitors having a big, you know, ethical discussion. They're not talking about those things. They're talking about the animal death. They're talking about the human death. They're talking about, you know, eat cannibals, eat human flesh. That's what they're talking about. It outgrows, it outgrows DT, didn't it? It's a masterpiece. I'll say it really is. And you know, when you have favourite films that you revisit all the time, I haven't watched "Cannibal Holocaust" in a few years, but I don't need to. I mean, I will do. I will do it at some point because I love the film, but I'm not going to be. It's not going to be a film that I watch every year. Like Texas Chainsaw, I watch once a year, blows my mind, love it, then watch it again a year later because it's just my favourite one. So, but this isn't the kind of film that you watched loads and loads and loads and rave about. I probably wouldn't wear a Cannibal Holocaust t-shirt. Do you know what I mean? I would. Yeah, this is the thing, but let's get on to the special effects. Right. Yeah. Well, I've got two sections left here. And the first is the effects. It's really good. I am utterly convinced that the famous story of the court stuff where the judge thought it was a snuff film and things like that, and they presented the actors to prove it. I'm convinced that it's been embellished over time. Right. Yes. But at the same time, there is records of it happening. So we know that that was on the table. And I can see why. As I just said, some of this stuff looks incredibly real, especially towards the end. I am. I don't know how they did it. And I don't want to know because it will take things away from the shaky. The shaky camera work is what I think makes this so much more powerful because you kind of feel like you're continuously moving the way they drop the camera, the way they, you know, the way they're swapping the camera with each other. That's what it is, is because you don't actually see anything in focus for more than just a split second. And that's what makes you go, oh shit, I just see that. Especially the girl on the the spike, which is very easy. They did that though. They just stuck around a bicycle scene. So it's, yeah, but again, yeah, she's going to bicycle seat like that. She's got a bit of plywood, just balancing. But again, the way it's filmed, you don't think, Oh my God, you just think, Oh, okay, that girl's dead. You don't question it. Like, you know, it looks so spot on. I'm not very saying the reason I think it works so well is the American actors sell it so well because they're so gleeful that this has happened and they can now capture this on the footage. But at the same time, their faces, like instantly we best look sad here, we best know that this has happened, you know, and they sell that juxtaposition of feelings and emotions really well, where you just think you selfish, toxic bastard. But anyway, because it's their fault, you know, I think that's one of the selling moments and that's why it's on the front cover of a lot of these editions of it is such a powerful thing. Well, you can see that going back to the actress who plays Faye, Francesca Kadini, Khayadi Khayadi. Oh, we'll ask her how you pronounce it. You can tell that there are certain moments, especially that one where she's not necessarily acting. She's looking genuinely like, oh, what the fuck are we doing now? What is this sequence? She's like, oh, so you've done this now we're doing this what we don't get it's. Yes, pretty believable. See, I struggled to talk about this movie. There's just too much to cover, isn't there? I mean, I'm happy with this. But as I say, it's difficult to go into a bit by bit unless you're going to sit down for four hours scene by scene and break everything down with the cast, with the crew. We need a bit of that. We need a lot of there. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Yeah, that was some of the score. What do you know about it? This is so stunning for me. Like, what do you know about this score? There's nothing beyond who it's by. And, yeah, I mean, Rizzo Tulane has done thousands and thousands of film scores. And I don't really know a huge amount about him, to be honest, but this is, there's a track on the soundtrack called The Crucified Woman, which is absolutely heartbreaking. And overshadowed greatly by the uncleliness of this film, because I've said to you before that sometimes, you know, when we're having family dinner and evening up on some David Hess or whatever. But I'm not going to lie, we've listened to the cannibal Holocaust soundtrack at home, just in the background, and everyone loves it. So you can separate it, can't you? But it is, it is what, the same with Suspiria, right? Take away. If you put the Benny Hill thing all the way through Suspiria, it's not going to be the same, is it? So I think, I think, I think what's Lainey's soundtrack is absolutely essential. It's almost 50% of the reason why this film is so powerful, because why would you use this score? What's going on? It just shows that Diadato is probably a lot more intelligent than he could give him credit for, because he obviously had this vision that he didn't want this to be some throwaway cheapy slasher. He saved that when he did House Nature Park and Washing Machine and all that stuff. But with this, he was obviously not trying to do a cheap crack movie. I think he was inspired by a lot bigger things. And he said himself, he said, I didn't, you know, this isn't a horror film, this is just what I think about society. I wanted to show people what my opinion was, of what we're not being shown on the news every day, and what I'd like to see this reality in, you know, in news stories. But that doesn't justify the animals. And that's where the problem lies, isn't it? Because it is very well seen. Yeah, you've achieved what you say out to do, but you can't defend the animals. It always comes back to animals, isn't it? That's the reason I can't give it a 10 out of 10. It's completely those scenes. But I haven't seen a film in this exploration of horror that I've partaken in that has affected me in the same way, and has got me to, I didn't happen with Jallow Jallow happened over a series of months of just like watching many, many Jallows and then finally starting to understand them. This was not me. I would never say that. This film like shook me instantly and more and more and more. I want to devour this. It's because we're weirdos, man. We're the weirdos, not me. I mean, this is the thing like getting this film when I was in my teens, what any normal human being would have done was say, oh, I think I'm glad, you know, glad that's out the way. No, no, no, no, no. Give me necromantic. Give me the next thing, because if I'm not meant to see something or something controversial, I want to see it. And if for any life is short, for something to have that profound effect on you, you obviously need to embrace the fact that that has actually affected you in a way that nothing else ever has. Right. Do you know what I mean? And yeah, I don't mean embrace it in the way where you run around saying, oh my God, watch this film. It's a masterpiece. I don't, I don't recommend cannibal Holocaust to anyone. I secretly rave about it and love it. And there are people I know like you who would say, yeah, you need to see this film, you need to see this film. It's, I can 1000% understand why this film has caused so many censorship problems. And when it was actually released on card minus what 10 seconds by shameless. I was stunned. Right. Okay, so that you can now get this anywhere. And I think I think this is one of the only films that I'd say should remain in, you know, on the top shelf. So to speak, because it is fucking horrible. Yeah. And it is, you know, as you know, you can, as we're saying, like, you know, last house left, you can kind of understand that, you know, the, the history with that's been dragging on and on and at the end of the day. There are sort of films that have tougher scenes of sexual violence now and you feel safe, it's like irreversible and based more on all these films. That's their nasty. Last house on the left is finally being, I think finally being appreciated for being. Where's Craven's debut film and it's a very good movie. I love it. The cannibal Holocaust is always going to be overshadowed by the negative stuff surrounding it, because you can't explain it to anyone. You know, if you say, oh, you know, last house on the left, rape seems a bit nasty. So yeah, it was, you know, that was a nasty sequence. And, you know, that's in the past. The cannibal Holocaust hasn't aged. So now you're watching it and it's even more powerful than it was 25 years ago because it hasn't, it's still as real as it was then. So, before you ask me, yes, it should have been a video nasty and yes, it still should be a video nasty. But, you know, the right people love this one. My friend Prano, baby Bond, he did a sense, it's one of the cannibal Holocaust is one of her favourite films of all time. She absolutely, I think I lent it to her actually, I think I bought it. But she loves that film and like, you know, we often have chats about it and she says, you know, that's one of the films that made me want to make feature movies. So, and same with obviously with Eli Roth, like it's his all time favourite film. I think Tarantino's a big supporter of it because I think they can see beyond the crummy parts of it and actually see how helpful that actually is. So, what have I learned after covering all these first rung a video nasty as well? Nothing important at all. And that is a really important thing. The whole hysteria that the British press and the British government at the time cooked up is at best an embarrassing look back and at worst a disgusting abuse of power that seems to be part of a pattern that every decade or so just rears its ugly head as governments of the time tend to focus on something. They want to whip up a frenzy and gather support that way rather than having voters focusing on how bad they're actually doing at their actual jobs. I have had the best time plowing head first into these films. And over on Patreon right now, we are deep into tier two, the un-prosecuted tiles. So, if I may be so bold, if you've enjoyed this rundown then why not come along to the Patreon? Head over to patreon.com/ayearinhorror and subscribe. Or if you're thinking "I haven't got that money, I wish I could, but I just haven't got the cash." That's fine, why not tell your buds all about it as well? And if you haven't got the time to be spreading the word and this is just between you and your ears, that's also really cool. Thanks for listening. Right, let's choose the gear that we're going to be dealing with next month. Back to our proper programming. I have my little bag with me. It's a zip tie bag now and I can't open it, there we go, I've opened it. I lied straight away, here we go. Gonna rustle through. Right, I've pulled one out. 2012! Hmm. One film comes to mind, The Woman in Black. Daniel Radcliffe's Return to Hammer, that's why I know the year of that. 2012. No, no, I don't know. Woman in Black is the only one I can think of. There we go. Yeah. Whatever, 2012. That's a modern one, right? I've recently been doing 1968, I think after that was the 40s, then we've done 1995. Let's get modern. Yeah, I can't wait, that's going to be awesome. Also, if you want to listen to any of the year in horror jingles, then head over to a year in horror.bankamp.com. They're all there, you can download them, you can go, oh yeah, Paul plays that sometimes. Whatever you want to do, I don't care. I'm afraid to contact the podcast at ayearinholler@gmail.com with whatever ratings you thought the video nasty should have been compiled as. Now, obviously, my number one and a few of my other numbers there will probably be controversial to my very taste. It'd be interesting to know what the general consensus is there, I think. You can follow me @wallonnotweller on Letterbox that an Instagram or you can hit me up @notwellopod on Twitter or X if you want to call it that. Also, on Letterbox I've listed all the years that we've tackled so far. I've attached all those films to the proper positions. So, if you ever want a handy, what did Paul think was number 42 from 1940s? Well, it's all there. Great massive big stonking thanks to my wife Claire Waller. She does all those Photoshop posters for each episode. Also, the science fiction corner jingle. She did that, the spooky jingle, the pool's wearing a silly t-shirt jingle. One trick pony designed that logo calendar and just the logo itself. Max Newton and Lucy Foster, they did the a year in horror theme music. And finally, thank you to the guests, Benjamin Bowles, Bob Bruno, Grey and Bywater, Mark Canale, Chuff, Brad Hanson, Alexander Heff, Perrin Hayish, Nicky Jones, Lono, Kevin Lyons, Dan Martin, Dennis Merklin House, Mark Morris, Nate, Shane Mossafin, Kate Robertson, Larry Chamel, John Tantillon, and of course, last and not least, Jake West. They all appeared on these eight episodes, really appreciate them giving up some of their time. But most of all, this one has been super long and super detailed. So, a big massive thanks to you lot for listening to this right up until the end. I'm going to see you all next month for a podcast that's going to feature the best horror films that 2012 had to offer. Is there going to be any film that is better than Daniel Radcliffe's The Woman in Black? I can only imagine there will be. Until then, don't lose your mind, don't lose your marbles, just don't lose. [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
