My name is Paul Waller, and I'm a horror movie addict. During 2020, the workload for my music industry job is slowed right down. And at the same time, I discovered the movie's social networking platform called Letterboxed. So I decided to fill in the gaps of my horror film knowledge. I'm still averaging two a day, and this podcast is a result of that horror compulsion sort of, this is a year in horror. And the world is here. Welcome back horrorless lovers, you've smashed it again. This is part 5 of the nastiest of the horror list experiences. Yep, today we're heading back, way back to 84, and really 85 as well, when this video nasty thing exploded onto the tabloids in the UK. We're going to be exploring the top tier list of video nasties. Last month I explored the very first half of the 39 films, I say first half because I've actually rated them from worst to best and given my reasons. And you know what, the majority of the conversations here have been pilfered from the year year in horror Patreon channel where I've been exploring these titles with various guests over the past two and a bit years, but they aren't the full conversations, so hopefully you won't feel short changed if you've subscribed to Patreon for that reason. Also though, just so you know, we've actually already started on the second tier of video nasties over there, we're well into it now, so there is still tons of exclusive bonus video nasty content coming at ya. It's relentless, I think it may never end, there are four new episodes every month, and not just on the video nasties though, I've got several different seasons and shows taking place over there, the app now lets you separate them by category, I think I'm at like 140 episodes right now, I mean come on, it's gross. How much joy that I actually bring. I shock myself, other podcasts should be ashamed, put the time in people, but I've got to admit I do completely love it, but as I said, I think I'm a horror movie addict for this stuff, and this legacy of the video nasties, well it has changed the way that I look at horror, I love the low budget B movie stuff, that classy Italian stuff, the obscure one off passion projects, the ridiculous studio copycat bitches, they're all magical to me, and I did know it existed before, but I never felt the need to explore it, now I obsess over it, I think about it all the time, so as I said last month, if you do watch Censa or something, and you thought to yourself what was all that video nasty business that they're talking about, or even if you used to really collect these things on the regular, I am sure that there's going to be a stack of useful tidbits for you over the next few days here, so, I mean let's do it, because it's a slightly different show this month, let me tell you how it's going to work, as I said there are 39 titles in the first section of the video nasties, they're the prosecuted titles, and because this is the fifth of the episodes about this whole thing, just so you know I put the explanations of what video nasties were and how it all came about, I put it in episode 1, simple right? If you want to get into some more details with me, or you have maybe your own thoughts on what was the best or the worst of the video nasty titles, then please feel free to contact me at the podcast, you can follow me at walla not weller on letterbox then instagram, or you can hit me up at not weller pod on twitter, that's twitter, is twitter still going to be going, I'm doing this months in advance, maybe twitter will still be going, it definitely won't be called twitter, but maybe it will still be going, it's probably best to email me directly in fact at yearinhorror@gmail.com, if you do enjoy it why not give us a five-star review on apple podcasts or give us a good review on Spotify, however that works, but as I've always said I'm not your mum, I'm not going to tell you what to do and what you can't do, all I want is for you to be safe out there, but maybe, just maybe have your pens at the ready because things on here are going to get nasty, they're going to get nasty right now, as I continue to compile the worst to the best video nasties from that prosecuted list, it was a rough enough start for those first four episodes last month, but now, let me tell you things on this episode, they're looking up and they're looking up by quite a lot, so without any more riff, no more raff, let me hit my number 19 pick will ya, some of you may know it as twitch of the deaf nerve, but me, I've always known it as mario barbers bay of blood, and joining me today, taking a break from being an astronomer, I know you're not surprised because I've got such learned buddies, it's only Mr Mark Canale, he's my newest and bestest bud that I could ever want since I've started this podcast, so let's see exactly what we made of this film. IMDB it says the following, this film as a bay of blood was rejected for cinema released by the BBFC in 1972, and under the pre-video recording act title of bloodbath, it ended up as one of the original 39 video nasties in the UK, and that is of course where we come in, the film was eventually released in the UK market on video by redemption films in 1994, it was called a bay of blood at that point, after it had 43 seconds of cuts, they were also missing those cuts in the 2002 edition from film 2000, that DVD, and until my recent rewatch for this one, all I really remembered was that this is the one with the thicket of woods by a lake, and there's this weird gardener type fellow running about, also there is a swimming pool scene in this somewhere, and there's a party going on, so I didn't really get that right, this film does contain though the fantastic line, if you kill for killing sake you become a monster, and this is also the movie that will make you think twice about breaking and entering into a property that doesn't belong to you, of course this contains fantastic framing and blocking and pullback shots, it is a film that establishes the trope that is if you call the police you're going to be offed and fast, and it is also a film that in my notes I wrote what is going on, and WTF a total of seven times, it is confusing at points, I promise you that, but, and here's a big but, to deliver some sanity to this barber banger, I am delighted to welcome back to the show, regular guest of the main channel, the wonderful specimen of a human being that goes by the name of Mr Mark Kanale, and that is Mark with the C, and that C stands for call, we spoke at the beginning of May, and here are the results of that conversation, hey why would I lie? [Music] [Music] Hello, good, we're back, so there might be a little delay on this, it might sound weird, it might sound futuristic, I might put some sort of special effects on it, we'll see, I won't do that I promise Mark, and welcome back to the show, this is your first proper time in patreon land, you've been on there before, this is an extra, I know, this is the special people, this is it, we've got to put on there's some graces now, haven't we? Well no, we've got to pay attention, they do, but we are talking about video nasty, so yeah, can't wait to get to the Nazi stuff, you said nobody was doing it, is anyone doing it? Yeah, I might have to do them on my own, so far I've, I've pushed them on to a couple of people that said, now I'll do the cannibal ones, it's bad when cannibals get you know, it's a head of nonsense. Yeah, now I'll do Serbian film, yeah, anyway, we're talking about video nasties, and this is my favourite question that I ask anyone when we go into these things, is what's your history with video nasties, was it something you were into at the time, or did you sort of hear about it later? Well, I'm old enough to remember it, for a start, that's why I'm excited about you. Yeah, exactly, well, I'm old enough to remember it, I mean, admittedly, I was, what would I have been sort of barely sort of 10, 11, 12, when it was really all sort of kicking off, so you know, it certainly wasn't affecting me in the sense of, I mean, maybe I was the target audience for what they were worried about, you know, watching kind of thing, but no, I mean, I can remember it, the main thing I can remember about it, was the kind of hysteria in the papers, but I remember all the covers of the video cases, when you went into the video show, sort of video rental places, which at that time, they weren't so much blockbusters, they were more like the little shop down the road, like the corner shop, and they would have the little sort of section, you know, in a corner, and of course, you know, you would have your bog style of stuff in a bit, but then you'd have the top shelf, you know, you'd literally have these ones on the top shelf. Yeah, yeah, and it was like, that was always the bit you looked at, because you know, I either had the kind of erotic thriller section, then in one corner that always had the lovely covers, and then you always had the bit next to it, which had those video nasty covers, and yeah, I say video nasty covers, they didn't have those, but they had the covers of the horror movies and stuff like that, and always remember that kind of thing at the time. And so in terms of that, I do remember the hysteria, I do remember the craziness over it, and how not everyone was going and the papers would just full of it, and I remember that all the time, and it did get like sort of crazy, and then it just seemed to sort of disappear, didn't it? It kind of just, it just sort of faded away really quickly, and then obviously as you get a bit older and you sort of gonna start getting into the horror movies, obviously you remember this stuff, right? Oh yeah, that was one of those like panned ones, wasn't it? That was, yeah, I remember the name there, and you start looking at it. So yeah, obviously, I got the list at some point, as you do, you know, you get a hold of the list, of course you do, and you start thinking, am I seeing any of these? And I think at that point in time, I've probably seen a couple of them, not many, I can't even remember which ones, but I did do that sort of classic thing where I got the list, probably stuck it in an excel fault and started looking at importing DVDs, you know, at the time. This would have been like late 90s, early tooth maybe, probably late 90s, maybe early 2000s, actually a bit later than that, because I was getting hold of some of the uncut ones from the States, and you know, you had companies like Blue Underground, which is sort of why it started off in that, and they were kind of, they were the ones that you could get the uncut ones, because what's the point in watching the cut ones, right? You know, yeah, they were all sort of eventually released over here with like 50 seconds or 15 minutes cut out of them or what have you, but who wants that? The point is you want to watch them, in as raw sort of format as possible, you want us to see what the BBFC saw, you know, you want to see that stuff. And yeah, so it was all getting stuff imported, and I think I started off, and I think I did a count earlier on, I actually went through the list and just counted which ones I'd seen. And I think it's not that great to be honest with you, it's pretty pathetic. I think I've seen 11 of the top grade ones, whatever it was, the band ones, the tier three or whatever it is, it was called on tier one. Now, I think I've seen 11 of those out there, was it 30 odd for me? 39. You know, I know 40s in worse, let's say, say, a barely over a quarter of them. I've seen, because I think I watched the ones I got in and it was just such a pain in the arms to get older them. And frankly, I remember what I got anthropophagus uncut, because all you know the whole bit with the fetus gets cut out and all this stuff. Well, this is the thing, this is what this is the scene that's that it, that's the scene why it was kind of thing, that's the scene why it was put on there where sort of a pregnant woman is like. And I got acts as well and stuff like that. And kind of, I was like, okay, and I'm watching them and I'm like thinking, maybe it's this sort of thing. Is that it? I went to all that kind of effort. And it was like, okay, I mean, anthropophagus was really just fairly boring. It didn't nothing much really happened in it. And then you get the bit that goes a bit nuts and a bit crazy. And okay, there's a few bits of work. But ultimately, it just felt like loads of people walking around the Greek island that they're getting right away. It's like an episode of whether they wish you were here or something. It was like, you know, very, it didn't feel like I was really sort of doing anything transgressive. And apart from the ones that, you know, I'd already said, I remember watching cannibal fear rocks. And I'd already seen cannibal holocaust and loved that. That I'd seen before. That was one of the ones I'd already seen. And cannibal fear rocks felt to me just like a poor man's version of it. And I know it's, I mean, it's notorious and all the rest of it. And for what it was, yes, of course, it is. What is that? I think when you're seeing cannibal holocaust, particularly when you get the uncart version of it, and you get the whole, you know, the good and the bad of it, it does actually feel like, like a thing. You do actually feel a bit kind of like, pretty rubbish after watching it in some ways, fear rocks kind of just felt like, all right, okay, I can tell with pharox that, that they did try and up the ante, like it's a lot more mean spirited. If you can imagine that, like, I feel the extra and I saw them both really close together. I can feel that this one was a little bit like, oh, I can see you're just trying to do this. You're trying to up the ante. There's your animal talk to you. Yeah, we're tick tick. But yeah, the end result was I gave that, I think, an eight. And I'm, yeah, yeah, I swear you don't. So, you know, it's pretty good. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. I think if I'd have maybe like you seen them closer together, or maybe hadn't, you know, I cannibal Holocaust was such a big film for me, because it probably was the most extreme film I'd seen. At that point, you might have, and that kind of thing always leaves an indelible mark on you, doesn't it? That, that, you know, the first time you watch something like that, that is that extreme. Maybe it's the desensitizing of it, or maybe it's just a sense of like watching any great movie for the first time, watching, you know, later on, you start watching other stuff that's trying to replicate it, and you kind of get a bit, it's like a lot of great listening to a great album for the first time, and you have those great experiences. Nothing ever kind of like can come up to that again, it tries to different albums. Yeah, but nothing that ever tries to fit with it will ever make. So that that's kind of my, my history. And then I kind of gave up. And you know, at that point, then it was just the case of if I get rather watching stuff, and they're not the easiest things to get hold of still a lot of the time, unless you really go out your way, you can hardly look at them up in YouTube most of the time. That's not, there's some of them, like Evil Speak, which is just now when I watched it, it seemed like almost a 15 or a 12, you know, take your kids along. It seems bizarre, but then you do get those Holocaust films, and you do get the Nazi ones, or the particularly nasty rape ones, and you know, and then you see, right, okay, I can see why these were filed together away, but why then with some of these others just popped in there? Was it the religious content? And of course, we don't exactly know, because they've in all these years, there's been a few interviews that have come through from the people that were on the teams at the time, but they never give you the exact title, and that's the reason as to why or anything. The only time I think I've ever known that to happen, I remember a particular conversation with Texas Chainsaw Massacre, where they said it was just the tone of the thing. We can't cut it, because the whole tone was just, you can't cut a five minutes out, because there's no blood anyway. Yes, the feel of it. Yeah, well, you don't get much better than that. That's great, because that's why that is such a great film. Whereas, as you say, some of these other ones, you feel that their moments, there are maybe the odd shots, or the odd sort of scene of just sort of a particular type of violence, or what have you, that seem to then sort of shock someone's. I mean, there are a few docs, it's interesting what you were saying, there are a few docs, a couple of them are on the shutter and stuff like that, that I sort of watched a little while ago. But as you say, it's quite interesting, because most of the perspective is all from our side, is from the side of the people that kind of are watching them, and like basically, you're not going to get, it's hard to get the perspective of, well, why were you that, why were you trying to sort of, what was it about this stuff that was really up saying, you can get the footage from the time, and obviously the newspaper stories from the time, but again, it was such hysteria. I do wonder whether there was really very, very little sense about it anyway, it was more just a case of people were just getting more and more hysterical, watching this, you know, I think that part of the documentary was saying it wasn't even so much that the BBFC were watching it, but the people were coming into government offices and the police, they were all watching stuff, and they were all watching these movies, and there was groups of people in like, sort of police, you know, in New Scotland Yard kind of watching things, and like sort of making notes, and so you just had the most random people watching stuff, and sort of getting, I mean, shouting about sort of how terrible this scene was, so I think that could be why maybe there isn't really a clear perspective of why one film is bad and one film wasn't bad and why this little group was for this period of time, you know? I really enjoy the fact that some of these films you would watch anyway, particularly like for instance, if you're into Italian cinema, you're going to come across quite a few of them, which we'll talk about in just a sec, but if you're into like the American slasher stuff, the really early stuff, then yeah, there's a couple thrown in there, and you would just be like, oh, okay, I've already seen that, because that's what I was saying, I was interested in, and now I'm not surprised at all that you went for a Bay of Blood, sorry, sorry, Twitch of the deaf nerve, is that what we'll discuss that, it's quite an interesting one, yeah, we'll stick with Bay of Blood, I mean, like most of our movies, it went through about 74 different title changes, what's the main one it was released as, I think it was the ecology of, oh god, the ecology of murder, or the ecology of horror, I can't remember, that's because apparently ecology was an in-word at the time, in 1971, so they just called it the ecology of horror or something like that, yeah, that's really bizarre, but yeah, it went through so many, yeah, the Twitch of the deaf nerve thing will come to that, because it's a really interesting thing of why they called it that, so I take it, your history with Bay of Blood is nothing to do with the fact that it's a video nasty, it's just that, it's a barber film, you're going through barber films, this is one that you're going to watch. Yeah, and it's only pretty recently, because it was, I mean, mainly, because, you know, the the pod you did with power and about the, about the Giallo films, and when I was listening to that, I realized I hadn't really seen that many, and I like, you know, I'd seen a, basically, a few Argentos, that was essentially it, and the big ones, you know, it's in a break, which, you know, there you go, video, no, I'm Steve, I think that's going to, is that a tier one or a tier? No, it is tier one, yeah, somehow. And yeah, exactly. And, you know, the usual sort of deep red and things like that, so I'd seen a couple of those, but my sort of knowledge of those was actually pretty bad, considering I kind of like them, so I decided to start going through them all, and just in the last year, I've already just been watching those barbers, really, for the first times, actually sort of really getting into them. And so doing the previous pod that we did on kill baby killers, kill baby killers, yes. And, and yeah, and looking at some of these other ones around that, this just was naturally one of the, one of the films to sort of think about, and talk about when, when we're talking about the video analysis, there you go, there's a barber on it. Great. Okay, let's, let's talk about that. It's, it's, it's really, really interesting, because it is like barber, this great artist, this great, you know, this artist of the horror film. And here you go. It's one of these films on the tier one list. It's like, okay, it's going on there. I mean, my history with it is weird. I saw it as a film called "Twitcher the Deaf Nerve" many, many years ago. And all I could remember was there was a swimming pool scene, and there was the thicket of woods by a lake, and someone was walking through them. And then I've watched it twice since as a Bay of Blood. Both times, the first time I was like, oh, okay, this is that film, different title. Next time was, oh, have I seen Bay of Blood? I don't know. This is before letterboxed. So I was like, right, let's put Bay of Blood on. Oh, I have seen it. Yeah. Okay, here we go. Yeah, so that was my history. Watching it again, because I'd never liked it either. I just remember these little set pieces and think, oh, god, it's that film. But I had a good start, right? What's an analytically? Everything changes. Everything changes. As does it happen with Barbara at a time and time again for me. Yeah. So yeah, that's right. As you say, as we're saying, he's the kind of easy artist, this, but of course, at this point in time, he's getting late in his career. When she gets to 71, he's, you know, he's only got a few films left in him, actually. So it's like, yeah, it's a really weird sort of, again, as well with with Barbara, the background to the making of it in many ways is as interesting as anything else. So yeah, it basically starts off with Argento again, as so many Italian films do. Basically, Argento makes Catanine's house, which was quite successful in Italy. And that was written by a guy called Dardano Sarcetti, who we've mentioned before, because that's the guy that wrote the Gates of Hell trilogy films for Vortche. Right. And this is, he's the main man for Italian, poorer and Italian cinema at that time. He's just knocked them out. He knocked two, three, four films out a year, right? So this was only, so Catanine's house was actually his first script, his first film. And it was really successful. So he was kind of a hot property editor. And he had a big falling out with Argento. And you know, and yeah, Dino De Laurentiis, who was the producer, basically wanted him to work, wanted to get older him because he was a hot property. Right. So he gets him and says, why, let's get you with Barbara, this master of Italian horror, get you together and see what you can come up with. And they get on with each other, and they get all this, and they decide to come up with this kind of, it's supposed to be a kind of satire on sort of the idea of sort of, you know, inheritance and sort of the family sort of trying to inherit and sort of stuff and the parents and the children and how they kind of end up hating each other, because the children want that the inheritances and the parents hate the kids, because they just want the inheritance and it was kind of meant to be that kind of thing. And they wrote it. And yeah, it's really interesting that he's involved, he was involved in it, because you can kind of sense a little bit of that kind of nastiness that he would do later on, cat and iron sales, isn't it fairly sort of nasty sort of GLO. Yeah, but it's only when you look at him later on, you know, 10 years later, he's working with Fulci and they're going crazy over stuff. You can imagine that this is, that's maybe the way this guy works, that he would get kind of, you know, he'd have fun with these sort of ideas. We spoke about them to be on to that, yeah, having a sense of fun in a lot of the kind of the gore and a lot of the extremities of it. And you can maybe sense that Barbara got sort of kind of, you know, sort of hyped with this, you know. And so yeah, that was quite interesting, it got together. They actually fell out. I don't know whether Sargeti was just a sort of guy that fell out with people. He fell out with Bob. Apparently, Barbara actually had a big meltdown at one point and they had to kind of, they split up and then the script got slightly rewritten. The shooting script was completely changed and completely changed. But, you know, the core of it was done. And I wonder whether the fact that the film is, you might destroy it, there's a little bit difficult to follow. That may be down to the fact that it was actually rewritten a few times afterwards before it. And, you know, before the shooting actually started. And then, of course, we have the classic barber. They run out of money before it even starts. This is Barbara Allover, isn't it? Right? They're this before. There's panic barber owes money and taxes apparently. So he's got to make something quick. So what do they do? Let's just get out there. Let's just make it know, you know, minimum crew, minimum, yeah, just get some people that I know to act in there. Let's get kids in doing this. Let's just make the film. Let's just get it out. And that's what they did. They, they film it and the usual sort of probably takes about five days. I don't know how long he actually took the film, but it probably was about a week or something. Looks it. And yeah, exactly. And you can see there's not those barber-esque flourishes. He obviously doesn't have the studio. He doesn't have a little bit sort of lighting things going. He's, there's a bit less care going on there. Even though I'd still say there is, there is a barber feel to a lot of it. And you can see sometimes you just can't resist composing a shot really nicely. Or, you know, just, yeah, he was his own cinematographer. He did the directing and the cinematography completely himself. All that sort of stuff. Yeah, the usual kind of crazy barber stuff. It was, you know, knock it out as quick and cheap and quick as possible. I can tell, I can tell that there is loads of those little touches that I've sort of grown to love now, which I initially was just like, oh, for God's sake. Like, for one, this plot, and again, I know I get hung up on the plot and I know you just want to hit your head against the screen when I say this. But at least there is some sort of plot with this one. You can see, oh, hang on, that's deranged. But at least for a while, I was there. And then it catches back up with itself at points and then goes again, regardless, you know, it's confusing, let's just say that. Yeah, don't for that. And yeah, as you were saying, there's some lovely sort of shots and Barbara can't help himself. I think that is just part of him. You know, that's like, I don't think there's any way round, but he's always going to do that. And you look at sort of blood and black lace and stuff like that, the sort of one he did sort of before then that was quite, wouldn't say quite hard, but you might describe it as, you know, this sort of ideal, this slasher film and all this sort of thing. And this is the original slash film. But you can also look at blood and black lace, which is a Giallo, but you know, that's a slasher film as well. It's even earlier 10 years before kind of thing. And you can see similarities in it. You can feel Barbara has that. Yeah, as you were saying, it's really nice to watch, but I was now because you can, you kind of know he's her mom now and even in films that aren't obviously the same thing. It's there. It's nice little fingerprints. It was a lovely scene actually where I mentioned like someone was going through the woods. And it's just that POV through the actual bush. Yeah. And just what you can pick up. Very clearly done. Do you know there was no woods, there was no woods there, but they needed woods. They had, they had, they had this thing where this there was supposed to be woods, 90% of all this stuff taking place in the woods. And they turned up at the place where they were filming. Yeah. And they weren't any woods. And he literally, they literally had today had about three trees. And so what they ended up doing was they ended up getting some sort of like sticks from a like a garden center type thing. They just got loads of like sticks and twigs, some things from a local, right? Something like that. That's my and literally hell, you know, the actors were saying that these guys were holding twigs and sticks at the side of the, you know, the sort in front of them and behind them and stuff to make it look like they were in a forest. Yeah. And they said if they couldn't move, and if you watch some of the scenes, you notice how static some of the scenes are, because they couldn't move, because if they moved, you'd obviously, they were just in like basically a screen sized area with twigs. And if you moved out of it, there's nothing there. That's pretty cool. I can't walk or something. Right. Okay. What I think we will do now, Mark, we're going to go through this. Um, sort of not seen by scene, but like I wrote as I'm listening through a few things that stood out. Okay. So, you know, I don't think it would be very long. It may be and I'm sorry for the listeners out there. All right. Okay. So, and please, if you haven't seen it, go and watch it because I'm about to spoil everything. Spoilerific. Classic Paula, Mark's point. Here we go. Starts with a wheelchair murder, and it's really harsh because the elderly lady, she can't feel her legs. So she can't get a balance and that is already mean and nasty. Not what I expect from Barbara, to be honest. It's proper mean. Hmm. Yeah. I guess so. I mean, that's, that's the thing. It has, I mean, yeah, it's a free sort of evil sort of thing to do, I guess. Um, it does have a sort of barber-esque feel to it, though, the kind of the look of it, um, and the kind of idea of the face. He obviously has this thing of the face of the dead person. He focuses on this idea of her kind of her face all the time after she's been sort of, you know, hung, hanged, you know, strangled, and he keeps going back to it, and there's a big bit as well, of course, with the next killing, which we're not going to do, which is obviously the person that has killed her, her husband, yeah, father of this clam, he sort of is there, you're thinking, wow, okay, this isn't going to be much of a sort of, yeah, who does it? We're going to find out within that. It's happening within two minutes. We found out who did the get out, right? Who killed them? There you go. So it's him. And then, of course, he gets killed by someone, which is the sort of little twist at the beginning, very nice, but there's always this thing of he ends up underneath her and the face looking down and he does staring at her face and all this sort of stuff. So that barber thing, that, that was in Black Sabbath, the face, isn't it? The dead person, the final Black Sabbath story. He obviously has a thing about that, which is quite nice, I guess. Beautiful. Yeah, I mean, maybe it's sort of a death mask type thing that he kind of has a thing of just thinking about it, because typically the Italian is doing a lot of death masks, I think, in that way. Yeah, so that sort of scene is, I guess, pretty harsh. I still don't think that harsh enough to suggest it's like, well, really heavy. It's like, for its time, I mean, I might be sensitized to things. I felt it was incredibly shot. And I thought this is, I instantly knew that, oh, right, okay, he's taking some time with this. So like you said, there were certain set pieces that he's gonna know I'm doing this properly, and that was one of them. But yeah, I thought was particularly mean-spirited. It's so easy for anyone else to get out of this. And you're the one person that cannot. Yeah, horrible. Okay. Next thing that really interested me was the introduction to the teens. I guess their teens, young adults, supposed to be- Yeah, some of them are in their own 40s. And this sort of the youngsters, this classic, yeah, I guess this is a really nice sort of trope, I suppose, that will become what we classify as a very sort of slasher trope, isn't it? This idea of teenagers, young, fancy-free, looking for a good time, not really, you know, sort of drink drugs and sex and rock and roll, that kind of thing. And that's, you know, they would become the staple diet of the slasher. So you can see how that might be where people get this idea of, right, here's the first slasher, here is where it's income. So yeah, I guess it's like, it does seem a bit weird, because they don't appear to have any relevance to the actual plot at all. And that's kind of weird, because you do have this whole plot going on. And the whole setup at the beginning, while although they're arriving and everything like that, does feel very agatha Christi-esque. You have all these characters sort of arriving in this air, in this place. And you know, some shit's going to go down, you know, with murders and stuff like that, all feels like a bit clued out, right? Yeah. And then you've got random sort of kids turning up, just there. I mean, I thought about this. And I think that the, we've already had the sort of Giallo thing, we've had the black glove, you know, we've had that already. So yeah, this is bringing a new thing into it, I think. But it's not very well fleshed out. And they're not, as you say, they're not around for long. I think maybe they were there so we can get some boobies, you know, from the swimming shot, a full frontal shot. I think, like, okay, that's that ticked. So we've got that underway. And also, there is a scene where later on, they're seen, and they're all piled up on top of each other. And that's a real standout scene. And I can just imagine that being locked away. And he said, going, that's going to be great. It'd be, I mean, I think you're right as well, but I think let's not forget the other thing as well, the classic body count. You know, for this type of film, at this point, you're starting to talk about the idea that the more the maria kind of thing, typically when it comes to, you know, it really starts to boil down soon. And this one feels like the kind of thought, okay, we've got all these, what is it, six or seven people in the family group or the people that live there, that kind of thing. Is that enough? Really? Couldn't we get maybe, can we maybe get another four? Let's get it into double figures, you know, let's get it up. You do feel maybe that is one of the reasons why, because they just are introduced. And then they're essentially knocked off pretty quick as well. You know, it's like, okay. And as you say, then, was this a bit later on, the bodies are discovered. But you never feel even that never feels like it's actually changing the trajectory of any of the plot or the characters, is it? They just are there. Oh, okay. Some more death people. A memorable scene. Yes. So there was something I wanted to say about those teams, that scene as well. Are we going to talk about them? Oh, yeah, we're going to talk about the murders of kids anyway, haven't we? I don't know. Let's talk about let's go into that bit first, so we don't forget on the way. Yeah. I mean, that that sort of the kids, the teams and their sort of deaths, of course, as well, we're going to, you've got the sort of the murders of those teams. That is probably my favorite shot in the whole film as well is, of course, the girl, the first one that gets killed with the. Yeah, it's not machete, is it? What's it called? It's called a bill hook. Yeah, it's when he takes her when she's obviously running through the trees, running through the forest. And then he gets her in the neck. And of course, that you get that shot of her sort of dying dead on the floor. And it's like, it's such an amazing shot. And then she's like posed, you know, a sort of theta crossed and she sort of sort of next arched back, almost sort of ecstatically or something like that, isn't it? Almost still cosmically lying on the ground, like that sort of dying. You know, it's shot like some sort of a vote cover shot or something like that, isn't it? It's good. And it's so weird because the bit before have has been so exploited to, you know, with the sort of nudity and then sort of getting chased really sort of quite, that's been not, not particularly convincingly through, you know, the trees and stuff like that. Yeah, exactly. And then you get that shot and that's so classic barber, isn't it? It's just like, you're so laughing and then you sort of suddenly stop and go. Yeah, so you're excited about that one. I was excited about seeing the two people having sex and killing them both at the same time shot. So, that one was, that's a, that's sort of a rigid one. And it's interesting because we're going to sort of talk maybe about how influential the film was. And of course, you probably, well, I know you've seen a film that has, and a lot of people have said that they basically just stole it off of this film, that they have the machete in the face, when it's going to build up in the face, and just dump the spear through the sort of couple having sex, Friday the 13th part two does exactly those two things. And I mean, literally, this is exactly the same. It's, I mean, you know, yes, machete and Friday the 13th party, but same thing. So it's kind of ripped off from it completely. You know, so it's one of those things where, yes, that is about as they're both about as distinctive a kill as you remember, you'll see an horror film, let's be honest, and don't forget studio 666, they do it with a chainsaw. Yeah, I haven't seen that one. Can't say that one was talking my list recently. Yeah, watch it for that. Okay, then this is where I hated it before, and I really loved it this time around. Yeah. So there's a conversation that goes on in the lounge, and this is here and there and what's going to impact conversation. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah, I know. Yes. I'm sure. Well, I mean, the conversation in the lounge, you'll forgive me if I don't just immediately think to myself, Oh, yes, that bet. Yeah, I mean, the that guy, I mean, there's a, I mean, this is what I was saying with the whole agatha Christie type thing earlier as well. You know, this sort of kind of disparate group of characters, you know, this idea of you'll get the rich swanky ones, and then you'll get the kind of strange sort of scientist or doctor or something, and then you'll get the psychic, and you'll get like a strange working class chap as well in the background as well, of course, you know, it's like it feels like that it feels as if they've created these characters almost sort of like jokingly in an agatha Christie kind of puns sort of way, haven't they? And this guy, what is this? I'm sure there is probably, if I sat and really wanted to think about it and contemplate it, there probably is some reason why this, this guy is on there studying the insects. And you know, maybe it's the coldness of the insect world, as we know from the fly, the idea of why doesn't you know, insects don't have politics to do that, you know, maybe it's something to do with that. I don't know, but otherwise it's just weird, really kind of silly. And his wife, the psychic, of course, staple of Italian horrors, we know as well, that the psychic, yeah, and they've always got to get taken out, particularly horribly as well on the race of the time. So there's a good, there's the good decapitation on that bit. But yeah, it is, I don't, in terms of the conversation, now I can't even remember the details of that, because at this point, I was sort of like trying to follow stuff rather than really listening to it, you know, this is the point, this is the point at this bit, like, I've written down hot woman, but I think I think it was Renee, he kept saying Renee, so I think- Oh, hold on, I've got them all, yeah, I've got them all written down, I've actually had to write down all the characters, I'm just remembering Renee, because it's Renata actually. Oh yeah, it's Renata, nearly. But yes, she's the daughter, she's the daughter of the, you know, the comfort of the beginning of the old lady. But she, she plot dumps for us, she says she's trying to find her dad. Right, there we go. Okay, there's something I can cling on to, right, we've got the mystery. I love this whole plot dump. Thanks, hot woman. Yeah, okay, yes, I mean, there is, I guess with a plot like this, there's going to be some exposition, but, you know, in terms of this film, I have to admit, I honestly didn't quite sure who was related to who. I mean, yes, I got the, obviously, I knew that they were obviously all kind of, they were related to the older couple as your neighbor, the children, because I knew that was what, you know, that's obviously what the plot is kind of about. But I wasn't entirely sure, I mean, her husband, I didn't even realize was her husband. That's, I mean, it wasn't entirely sure. He really was at one point, because there's a couple of silver foxes in this kind of thing, isn't there? I know, it's a kind of, all right, there's one with a slightly curly hair, and then there's a one with a straighter hair that looks really similar to him. And that's Frank, he's the son. So he's not the husband, he's the son, he's our brother. And he's the one that's got the sort of secretary that's this kind of lover type thing at the beginning, you know, pink, and, but yeah, I mean, at this point, I honestly didn't know who was who. I only really, I mean, I only really started kind of understanding who was who when they all started getting killed. That was really this is what is really enjoyable about it, because you need to be like a detective on telly with the faces up in the red bits of string going through, like, okay, this links to that. Who's that? Why did she kill him? You know, it's, it's crazy. And for the first time, I just thought, Paul, don't worry about it. Just enjoy this film. Because let's face it, he's not gonna make it all neat and tidy at the end. Come on. Let's get out. There's a bit that we've, I've got to mention again, because I thought this was a really effective scene, just amongst a ton of other scenes, is where she finds her dad's corpse in the boat covered by up all in. And there's a squid on it. And that's nice, isn't it? Yeah, it's a squidgy octopus thing. Yeah, exactly. And that's, that's quite nice, that bit. I feel that was quite, I mean, obviously, it's, I mean, effects wise, it's, it's a bit sort of dubious, but not bad. But I mean, the, the octopus kind of thing works really well with it, because at the beginning, you're a bit kind of like, yeah, what is that kind of, what's going on with that kind of thing? We in the zombie territory. Oh, yes, exactly. And what they, there is an octopus thing as well running through it, isn't there a squid thing running through it? Because when you have the, the scientist dude at the beginning talking to Oliver Reed or Simon, the illegitimate son who I think's got this whole Oliver Reed vibe going on. And then he's talking to me, he's talking about squid and stuff. And then later on, the dad turns up with the squid on his face. And obviously we eventually find out that he's killed by the, the fisherman, it is sudden person guy, Oliver Reed. So, you know, maybe that's why it's there as a kind of clue as to who actually killed him, I don't know, or maybe there's some theme running through it to do with cephalopods. I don't know. Tell me a little bit about this. You may know just this off your head. I spotted J&B Redland Whiskey. First time I've spotted it, I've heard all about this. Like, it's a thing, right? It's an Italian thing. Okay, no, I don't know this, no. Right, so it absolutely let you down. Every giallo, and you can, you can just type it in online and you'll see the photos of them in all your favourite films, that there is J&B Redland Whiskey. I've had my first spot of it, like, naturally in the film. Yeah, in the real world. So, yeah, and it happened for like a good period of time, and now they bring it back with them films every now and again that sort of want to doff their cap to giallo's as well. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's something to keep you on. Remember, J&B remember being a lot in my TV shows? Well, wasn't it all the time in the ex-files? Didn't everyone drink it? And I have a memory from way back. I might be wrong on that. It's just, you're talking about it now. Wasn't it always the drink of choice in the ex-phones? Probably, you know, sort of, smoking man and stuff like that would have always been in hell. You know, it was always, I don't know, maybe that has something to do with it. You know, it's not people are shouting at us right now. Yeah, probably not. Oh yeah, because that kind of, yeah, absolutely. But it may be something like that. But yeah, I know I didn't know that. And it's that's really interesting. I like now I'll have to do that thing of keeping my eye out for it. It's like the hair and insert number nine or something like that. It's sort of like trying to keep an eye out for a little slip. Yeah, too, right. Well, I've ordered some. I'll let you know, I'll let you know, before I start, I've ordered some to be delivered. I imagine you can just get it down to any shop, but no, I had to get some specially delivered. Italian one from Italy. Yeah, the original. It costs 300 pounds, but it's going to be gorgeous. Right. Okay. We're heading towards the end of the film. We're going to skip a few things, but it really sort of builds up. And there are some fantastic scenes here. I love the bit where the boiling water is thrown over Simon and he just doesn't seem affected by it. He goes, Oh God, oh God. Whereas I would have been out for the count. That would have been I would have just gone into the little forest and cried my eyes. Definitely avoided the whole bubbly face thing that you normally get with boiling water. You know, sort of people's faces bubble up. Yeah, no, that is really nice. That's sort of bit as well, because he's just, he's such a funny character as well, because he's, he's got that whole kind of vibe where he's, you know, even at the beginning is the crazy guy, you know, at the beginning is the sort of, he's not the mad local. It's intimidating and all the rest of it. It just says that. Yeah, that's what he is. Okay. Fine. But he turns out to be the illegitimate son. That's the point. Yeah. Well, you say, of course, there was a point all along. Of course. Yeah. The plot, of course, is then revealed that they, they want the, the bay to develop themselves. And this, this is what this whole thing has been about. And they get away with it. They're so happy, like, and they're, you know, it's just them two left. Brilliant. We've got away with it. And then a couple of characters that I'd forgotten half an hour before when I say goodbye, kids. We'll see you later. And they stay in the caravan and they go off to do their killing. And then they say goodbye, kids. And then the kids turn up at the end mark. What's, what, what, what? As, you know, watching it as well, like thinking that's why Paul's got WTL footage reviews. Whenever he's done the review, he's always just for WTLs. That's why he's done it. No, I know. I mean, it's their, it's their kids. And apparently the shotgun was theirs and they left it there. And the kids think it's a toy. I mean, come on, it's the most, it is a pretty heavy hand. It's kind of the children killing the parents. You see, so all comes around again and look through your own folly. You don't have died at the hands of your own children. So it does feel a little bit, but I guess the suddenness of it is one of the funny things, isn't it? It's just kind of so out of the blue. And it does just have then that kind of very Italian sort of again, maybe Fauci-esque feeling of, oh, well, then have them sort of skipping off, sort of making a funny thing of like, oh, they play dead well, don't they? Which was one of the original titles of the film. So there you go. Wow. See, there's so many titles. That was one of the original script titles for the film. And they're writing the scripts. They play, they play dead well, don't they? Which is the last one. Yeah. That's so good. I wonder what came first. Like, the title or they already had the ending planned out. Exactly. You know, I suspect they suspect they've had that ending from the very beginning. Now, that is probably, I think that's, what's his name? That's definitely Dodo, I know. So I checked, he's like, you know, it's a really heavy-handed kind of, okay, it was a little bit of the end of my head. See? Yeah, exactly. Boom. Right. So that's the rough sort of film, beginning to end. Um, make complete sense. I'm down with it. Do you think it should have been included on this video nasty list, knowing what else is on there from the 11 that you've seen now? Oh, well, now, I mean, now I feel bad. Now you've, like, told me that, you know, you feel that sort of opening scene was like really horrific and I basically sat there and I know it's horrible, but my attitude was, no, of course not. And now I'm like, oh, maybe I'm thinking about that. Now, I mean, I, my initial thoughts was more that the only thing I could think that would have put it on a list like that was the chop and, yeah, the bull hook, the bull hook and the face, but which to me is like, as a shot and as a scene, that's the sort of thing I would have imagined at the time. The, or the conservative ministers and stuff, you know, government ministers watch, you get the time would go, Oh, my God, or, or even just seen a picture of it, which I imagine when we talk about what happened to the film afterwards, you know, that they would have seen this image, this, this image would have been used. I mean, there's a lot of images like that that have been used. And I'm thinking like doing the stuff like that and chopping the head and maybe frozen, I think, as well. So, you know, that kind of thing of getting axed in the face is kind of way. But I do think that is the sort of image that probably was used and people have seen and just gone, no, that's like, that's definitely going on. That's, that's what it seemed like to me. But now I'm kind of sitting thinking, well, am I so desensitized to stuff that I don't know, octopus face and, you know, wheelchair lady is actually, you know, worse or deserved as well. So I would have initially, I thought, no, apart from that, but maybe I still think you mentioned acts earlier on. And I think that was put in there because it shows a child with an axe, you know, killing. I know that's all it does show, really. Yeah, yeah. But like, you have to pick a reason. And in fact, there can't be any other reason. You've got a particularly nasty set of baddies and there's the threat of sexual violence. But, you know, the actual donking and killing people with an axe maybe. But then if that's the case for that one, I think this one might only be in there because of that end shot with the kids using a gun. Like you can't be seen having kids using a gun and being happy. That is a fair point. I mean, you don't really see, I mean, it's not the most convincing or horrific kind of shot. I mean, you don't even see the kids using it, actually firing it or anything like that, do you? I think you just sort of see the gun sort of pointing out the window or something like that, don't you? Or did the caravan or something like that? No, I'm trying to remember the exact shots. Do you see the kids actually holding it? Yeah. Well, in that case, I guess maybe. I mean, I suppose that that is interesting in a way, because as we said at the beginning, it's not these sensitised. I guess it's more that as time has moved on with almost forgotten the reasons why this hysteria kind of happened and a lot of this stuff now seems almost, it does seem almost surreal that it ever happened in a way. I think that's part of the whole discussion about it. It does feel like a very puritanical period of time, where it's just a little crazy, and it was quite real for some people. Some people were probably prosecuted over it and did actually do jail time and stuff like that purely for the reason of just selling these videos. That was it, just selling a video of a horror film. So it did have a real consequence, but it does now feel very strange and peculiar that it ever happened at all. And so maybe that's part of it. It's actually quite hard to sit down and make a quite defamable reason why any of the films were not apart from what I guess it could have been. This is pretty odd, as you say, well, maybe that's not politically great. Listen there. Okay, the O'nasty's done. Cool. The video recordings bill passed through the Commons with all party support. The thousands of cassettes produced for sale or hire will become subject to stringent new restrictions. A powerful new censoring body is to be appointed by the home secretary. The censors will have the power to refuse certification or demand cuts in a video. Claims that the bill imposes state censorship are denied by its sponsors. I don't know how they can deny it. It's very easy to play with words, you see, and say, well, no, of course, we're just classifying films. You actually have to look at what will happen. According to secret guidelines, which will be issued by the Home Office, which can be amended at any time, and they don't like the way they operate on the secret guidelines, they can sack the BBFC from doing so and have said that if they don't like them, they will sack them from doing it. I have that recorded in the committee stage. So that's how it's going to operate. All films will be classified on that basis under instruction from the Home Office. How can you call that anything other than state censorship? 18 from 1963, no less. It is time that we spoke about Jesus. Or should I say blood feast. That's what I meant. Podcast regular grey and biowater is joining me for this one, and that director at Herschel Gordon Lewis, well, man, he's insane, right? You're about to witness some scenes from the next attraction to play this theatre. This picture, truly one of the most unusual ever filmed, contains scenes which, under no circumstances, should be viewed by anyone with a heart condition or anyone who is easily upset. We urgently recommend that if you are such a person or the parent of a young or impressionable child now in attendance, that you and the child leave the auditorium for the next 90 seconds. [screaming] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] Welcome back to Patreon, mate. How are you doing? Very well, how are you? All the better for seeing you. I think we can go in full spoilers here. We're going to talk about blood feast for the video nasty side of things. I've probably told you this story a million times, but when I first moved up to London in like 2001, I was working for borders and I discovered so much stuff in borders just because of they have a VHS collection and Tarleton Video released all these Herschel Gordon Lewis movies and the covers were just really lurid and they looked really tacky, but they didn't have any pictures of the actual film on the back, so they were quite mysterious. Getting them home after a borrowed or purchased them. I was far stunned by how good they were, but also really disappointed because they were shit, but the best kind of shit. The blood feast wasn't ever my favourite, I really liked the Gorgor girls, I thought that one was really good. I rated that the same as this. And gruesome toosome was quite enjoyable, the one with the woman who owns the wickshot, have you seen that one? Yeah, yeah, I've seen a lot of them now. Wizard of Gorgor's good, call me blood red, it's not bad, she doubles on wheels, isn't one of his better ones. Mind that, I didn't mind that. Considering, I did the arrow box set recently and I just finished it off yesterday, in fact. So the last two that I've watched were the Wizard of Gorgor from 1970, and on that same disc was how to make a doll. Oh right, yeah, I could have had that one. My word, like the difference between, and to the, I would say to average viewer, it's all going to be just trash. You're not going to be able to know the difference, but there is a huge difference between the Wizard of Gorgor, which I would rate as one of his better ones, to how to make a doll, which is not, let's say that, and being nice about it. So yeah, but my wife was watching it with me, which is like, this is all shit. What are you doing with your life? Oh, have you seen 2000 maniacs, because that's pretty good. Yeah, I have. That's a good one. The South's going to rise again with a cool film. Yeah, no, I do like that one, but they're not films that I watch often to be honest with you. I've seen them all, I've seen them all more than once. I re-watched Blood Feast a few months ago. Yeah, yeah, better, I mean, they're great. I mean, I like her traditional Louisa as an individual. I just love how intelligent years, how original those ones were at the time, even though in hindsight, it was very silly. But he was a cool mofo. I love that guy. Yeah, well, I mean, wanted to make some money off as cheaply as possible, but also to have this wealth of art in his repertoire. Yeah, in this catalog is great. I love the way Arrow put them all together, and then eventually it was released in a cheaper box, so I could afford it and just working my way through them. It never felt like a chore. Blue rays. Blue rays, yeah, blue books. I don't think I've ever seen them on blue, actually. I didn't feel the need to upgrade them. It's really interesting the way they've done it. So the picture is sharp as all hell. I don't know how they've done it because it doesn't look like, you know, when they did the Lord of the Rings and things like that, they sort of sharpened it up by putting it through some process that sort of cleaned the edges and it didn't look so great. And this was just like making the things pop, but you couldn't get rid of all the the scratches and all that sort of stuff. So it's all still there. And it's just like, oh, man, this is so nice. Does it look like a lot more digital? No, that's that that's the great thing about it. It just looks rough and ready, but just cleaned up. And like, when you watch, because I rewatched Blood Feast for this, but on an Australian VHS upload onto YouTube, and it's a mess. And it's the such a difference. And yet they're both quite bad looking, but one that I wrote thing has just gone and done the extra work magic. Yeah, I kind of just enjoyed the modern the heavy HS tapes, isn't it? They really suited being on VHS. And do you know this series? I mean, that Tarte did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good looking as well. I like the boxes of those. Oh, fantastic. And we used obviously used all the original poster up for them. That's one thing that always grinds my gears a bit with the currently Ray releases is the different and newly commissioned artworks can be very goodness. Yeah. And I'm just so old-fashioned that I just, if I'm going to get my video nasties, I want you to have the original cover art, or at least have that thing in option, which hour I do most. Yeah, you're right. When you get the soundtrack albums, that's when it's all the new art, and it's all, I don't mind that. But if I've got that actual DVD or the, yeah, you're right, I want some of that original art. I want it to pop off my shell, especially as you say, video nasties, definitely. So I'm going to go through it, I think, just a little bit by a little bit, because there's not a lot to say about this one. But I want to go through the good stuff, first of all. And what I really noticed this time around was the sort of ding, dong, ding, dong, ding, dong score. Like he's found something and he's going to run with it. I don't know. I don't know if you remember it, but as soon as it come back on, it was like, oh, yeah, it's this one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the gore, let's talk about it. I mean, splatter films like this guy invented it. It's really good. I love it. There is a scene in this where the little woman's head is splattered on the beach. And I was like, wow, wow, that looks fantastic. The colour of the blood is garish, but it's cool. The opening scene in the bathtub is just really hilarious. That's the thing. I'm smiling my way through just talking about it, because it is like tickling my little, like, oh, man, I love this so much. And the thing, I wouldn't give these films any more than five out of 10, you know, but I just love it. This one, I'll come back to five out of 10. But I've watched it four times in two years. Right. Okay. It's very short, though, isn't it? It's just over now. But I think I'd give blood feasts a bit more than five just because of what a trend century was. And, you know, you've got a lot of films that are still inspired by it. Like I watched blood, but I know the other day, actually a real recommendation. Yeah. And I didn't really read too much about it, but that's obviously, you know, indebted to that isn't quite considerably. Which oddly, and this doesn't happen very often, I couldn't finish blood minor. I didn't enjoy it at school. Wow. Yeah. There was something about it. I just was sitting there thinking that I could be watching something else now, because it's only so many hours in the day, isn't there? Yeah. So, you know, if I don't often leave film halfway through, but with that, I just thought, I'm not getting anything out of this. And I'm not probably put something online, seen a hundred times before, anyway, I'll whisper. Yeah. And that's one film. There's also, there's the sequel, isn't there? The All You Can Eat? Blood Feasts Two. Sorry. Blood Feasts Two. All You Can Eat, which came out, I don't know, like 10 years ago. Is it still? Yeah, I think it was. Hang on, hang on a second. Let me have a look at this. Look this up. Blood Feasts Two, All You Can Eat, is directed by Hershey Gordon Lewis. It's the sequel to Blood Feasts. Yeah, it's his last film. Wow. Yeah, 2002. They're very different cast, obviously. I think I've seen it, but I've been sticking it online until this book. You mentioned casting. Like, who are these people? I look at the sort of filmography, and it's only Hershey Gordon Lewis films. Yeah. It seems like just people he knows. Well, Connie Mason, of course, she was a Playboy bunny, wasn't she? Yeah. She's actually really good in Blood Feasts. I really like her. I think she's just the right kind of, yeah, she's really sweet, innocent girl next door. I think it really works. Bob See, what's his face, what? Ramsay Ramsay's boyfriend. Ramsay's yeah, yeah. Play on Mel Arnold. Him, yeah. Brilliant. I mean, I googled him just now actually before this, and it was not much to go by. Really charismatic, though. You're like, you're instantly intrigued by what's this guy up to? And like, yeah, they're acting range between, like, they've never done anything before, and you can tell, too, like they're being, like, sort of theatrical, like they're on stage. No one ever seems to get it right, but it's part of these films, Charm, when you watch them. I remember watching the she-devils one, and it was just like, what is going on? What was their direction here? Was there a direction? Well, yeah, it's like half of them don't really act as if there's a camera in the room, and there's some really unusual shots where they're being filmed from the side talking in Blood Feast. And there were certain moments where you think that there were just some random shots put together, and perhaps they dubbed it afterwards. I'm not sure if that's the case, but some of the dialogue really doesn't fit with what's going on in the screen, mainly with him. But I think that's part of the charm, and I think maybe that's intentional. I feel like Herschel probably said, "Don't act. Just do what you want." I mean, so, yeah. That much is evident from, like, the ending scene where he died a fitting death for the fact he was. I mean, let's talk about that, right? The logic here of like the very last scene. So, I loved this whole bit. I wrote a whole song about it. I love it so much. Really? Yeah. I wrote Blood Feast all about this. So, he gets to... Yeah, he gets Suzette in the kitchen, and so, like, he's what the scouts must have done, or what he must have done, has gone around three of his friend's houses, which one has got a flat surface in the kitchen, so he can get someone on it. So, he's found a property where he can get someone on the flat surface in the kitchen, and then it's cut so badly. It said it's so badly that he's pulled the knife up, and he just holds it there waiting for someone to enter the room, so he's been caught. And then he does the most comical... Well, you mentioned Monty Python. It's like the comical run, like, ah, I've been busted. So, he runs out into a tip. So, he's one to a tip, which thankfully has got like a rubbish truck just in there waiting. So, he's going to hide from the police that are chasing him, and by jumping into the bag, and then he gets himself squished by the mechanism at the back. Now, I've worked in a waste disposal before, and I was a street cleaner for like six months of my life, and whenever we got the opportunity to go with the adults into their trucks, we always took it, because the money was doubled, and it was a quick day, but it was really hard work. But then things, when they crush, they really crush, they don't forgive anything. Terrifying. Look, that's saying it's so good. Yeah. I mean, that's that's actually one of those deaths that really I find quite difficult to watch. This is a scene in not related particularly, but in Rumba Lebronks, where two guys get put in a wood chipper, and just the idea of that thing, the way you die, that is horrible. Yeah, it actually happens at the end of Eva De Breis, doesn't it? They get put in a wood chipper at the end of that. Yeah, that's horrible. But yeah, what a gnarly. So great, and it's only matched by the wonderful sound throughout this film. Now, I don't know if you know how this was done, but back in those days, I'm sure that the cameras that you'll be using didn't include like a sound part of it. So it had to be spliced at some point later. But why is there no boom mics? Why is it not done correctly? Do you know anything about this? I can't be honest. I don't. I think because these films have such a charm in there. So clunky, I don't really want to know too much about that. That will spoil the magic. Yeah, it's a bit of mystery, isn't it? But it's I mean, and it's not like the sound quality and the acting improves as his films go along, because he he maintains that level of New York City all the way through, like all of these gore films are just as bad as each other. In fact, they probably get worse as they go along. Yeah, yeah. So it must the whole thing must be completely intentional. Two questions left. Okay. Okay, here we go. First of all, what would make this go on the video nasty list? What is it about this one in particular? Anything you can think of? No, not. I mean, it's yeah, probably at the time. It probably came. It was probably a bit dark. But as with other films that we've discussed before, I think once the senses actually sat down and paid some attention to the film, they realized that it's it's much more accommodative than it is a horror film and nothing looks realistic. So it's not exactly par with a lot of the nasties. But again, it's probably just the name of the film that would have drawn it attention. Because even like the cover art can't he? And isn't that think the rich and cover art, the white one with him? Yeah, I think that's the other table. So they're not I mean, no, I don't think these should be video nasty at all. If that buffers the mind as to why only this one was on the video and asked his list because, no, why were the other ones not in there? Like the Goreball girls is far far nasty. I mean, there's some like meat tenderizing on buttocks in that film and light bulbs filled with blood shoved and mowed and things. It's much, much nasty in blood, please. I think it's just a reputation like this. This is the one that people always go to out of his catalog. And you know, it's called Bloodface. And it was the first splatter film and all this sort of things. And maybe it's reputation without even viewing it is like enough. Well, I think maybe in that case, then some of the Russ Meyer films should have been video nasties because they look just to right just as adults, you know, much, much, much more boobage in those posters. And you know, beyond the value of the dolls, you know, it's on the same sort of level, isn't it? Trash. So, I don't know. I think the, I just think Herschel's films are perfectly harmless to be honest. But, you know, you'd be pretty stupid to watch one of these films and be offended or disturbed by it because... Not this one. Yeah, yeah, not this one either. Like, I think you're right, all his films, if you're actually going through the catalog, there's much worse. It's, I've got my favourite question, to finish. Ogroff Bloodface. So, you've got a choice of the two. I want to know two things. One, if you've got to choose to watch one, which one is it going to be? And two, what's the better film? Ogroff, definitely. So, Ogroff... Just... Ogroff is the shit. I don't know, anyone else who even cares about it. But like, Ogroff, yeah, man, that's going to stick with me to my dying day. Bloodface is brilliant, but Ogroff, just, there's far more going on there. And it's... Yeah, it's nothing to do with it being obscure or being foreign or being unknown or being utter shy. It's just, it's just really special. So, I've got, which one would you choose out of those two? I'm assuming Bloodface. No, Ogroff as well. I don't know. So, lovely to watch. Rain, thanks for coming back on, mate. Cheers. Many thanks to Graham for coming on to the show once more to chat video nasties with me. If you like the cut of his jib, say hello and mention that we sent you on to his Instagram page at Graham Bywater and Bywater's BY. Why not? Give him a surprise, say hello. Hi Graham. The film industry, of course, has been subjected to the sort of categorisation I'm talking about and have been also subject to the obscene publications that the two have worked side by side. But, of course, the videos is a new phenomena. What we've done is brought them very much in line with what is happening in the film industry. And we have, in fact, made lots of exemptions. People still think that everything is subject to this. But, of course, things like sport or music recitals or anything that's aimed at education or medical stuff, he's exempt. It doesn't come in to the grips of my billboard. Beautiful. Just beautiful. But now, it is time for the film that I've placed at the 17th position. It is Axe, aka Lisa Lisa. Not with Colt Jan. Oh no. This is from 1974. And just like with blood feast, well, back again, it's podcast regular Graham Bywater joining me for this very jacked because it is his beloved favourite, probably. Now, this film is a really interesting one. I'm going to be back afterwards with a little take on the soundtrack, but I loved talking about this. I loved that you recommended we do it. Until then, here he is, his Graham and myself, chatting in February 2021, all about Axe. Not since the Texas Chainsaw Massacre has the screen-delivered terror like Axe. In 1971, they rampaged throughout the South. They played a game of William Tell, a killing spree that ended here, where they met Lisa and took what they wanted. Axe, the sharp edge of suspense slams hard into fear, and fear becomes terror. That's more like a baby. Pretty Lisa took an axe, gave her capture 40 wacks. When she saw what she had done, she gave his partner 41. Axe will slash up and shock you beyond anything before. Axe. Welcome back to the podcast, Graham. How you doing? I'm all right. How are you, Paul? I'm doing very well. Thanks. Let's begin. So we're going to talk about Axe, but I want to know a little bit beforehand about your history with Video Nasties in general. Before I even looked into this, before I clicked the Google search, I thought the Exorcist was like the Video Nasties. That's what it was. I thought it was not even on the list. So I clearly knew nothing about it. What's your history with this thing? With Video Nasties, well, it's funny when you look at the Video Nasties list, because there are films on there that you wouldn't expect to see on that. Films like Possession, the Sam Neil film, that's Video Nasties. That's a very out-and-guard heart-house film. Then you've got Tenebrae, Daria Argento, which is a strange one, because they could have chosen Suspiria, they could have chosen opera, but they chose Tenebrae. All right. Strange. So the list is so diverse that I've had random histories with bits and pieces of the Video Nasties, like I remember seeing, obviously, the cannibal movies for the first time, and not being aware that there were Video Nasties. I saw them so long ago, because the whole Video Nasties thing I learned about when I bought Alan Bryce's Video Nasties book, that was when I first discovered all the exact titles in there. I was like, oh, I've seen the majority of these films. I have a soft spot for some of the more obscure ones, as I said, with a loved, unhinged, and that wouldn't even be spoken about, if it weren't a Video Nastie, because it's such a non-negative. You know, that donned a drip blood, and you learned a fan of that. Films like that, and that's also on the Video Nasties list. If they weren't given such hype for being so controversial, nobody would have heard of them. So I think the Video Nasties list actually gave these films the attention that I think they deserved, and I think to this day, there's only two of them on the list that I've never seen. So, wow, yeah. I've never seen terror eyes. I don't know if you've heard of that one. And I've never seen, I miss you hugs and kisses. That's just, it's not even been released. But we've discussed the Slayer, and I think that was that was one of the better ones. Slayer, I think Slayer is like on a tier two or tier three. When you work your way down the tiers, say, the ones that we're doing, first of all, on Patreon, they're the ones that got prosecuted successfully. Someone, some video shop owner, actually did get a sentence to do, sending copies of Nightmare in a Damage Brain, because he was allowed to sell a truncated version of it, but he released the full version of it and actually went to prison, which is so daft, isn't it? Because I mean, I'm sure next to it on the shelf was Commando, which is incredibly violent, but got away with it because he mainstream movie. Yeah, right. I want to do this, and then I want to work my way down those other lists, because there's tons of films. I've seen a lot more of those ones, but there's tons that need reappraisal, or just like, what the hell is this film? I've never heard of it. So I think, what a great way to discover new movies. I just want to watch as much horror as I can. So this is just a great excuse to do it. This one came out in '74, same year as Texas Chainsaw, the Living Dead at Manchester, Morgan. Why did you choose Axe, aka Lisa Lisa? Yes. Why did I choose? I saw, I really loved the picture, the famous one that you've actually used with her just holding the axe up against the sky. I remember seeing that image when I was a teenager, probably younger than that, and just thinking, wow, this looks really, really cool. This looks like really surreal. It's really lonely, literally sparse. And then when I saw the film was 60 minutes long, it was 65 minutes. I thought I could have really bad bootleg copy of it on VHS, and I watched it really late, like 1 8, 1 8, and 2 AM, and it just stuck with me. It really haunted me, that film, like the sound track, the fact that nothing happens, I can fully understand why people would absolutely hate it, because it's dull. It's a dull movie. But if you, I find, as I said, I watched it at just the right time, it took me somewhere really special that only, perhaps, Texas Chainsaw has taken me before, where it's just this rural misery. Do you know what I mean? And there's no explanation as to what is going on with her and her grandfather, where are her parents? There's no explanation as to why he's mute. I guess you assume he was in the war, or he's an ex-soldier, and there's no explanation where exactly this kind of rage inside of her came from, because there are moments when she's looking into the mirror, and she has these very brief flashbacks of blood on the mirror when she's looking at reflection. Is that meant to symbolize something that she did before? And this isn't the first time she's done this. And yeah, that's what really drew me to this film was, was what five people in the entire film. There's barely any action in the entire film, but it's just so melancholy and so unexplained. I just completely fell in love with it. Pretty much that. There's something about this film that you don't, you're not going to go into horror watching this one. It's like, you're not going to, if you're into metal, the first band you're listening to isn't going to be like napalm death or autopsy or something like that. You're going to work your way there. And that's the same with this. Like, this isn't a film for like people that aren't already into horror. You're going to pick this one up, having a little history with it. And what I loved instantly, as soon as I put it in my player, was I've got this janky DVD copy, and the pictures, scuzzy, the sound is awful. It looks really lo-fi. And I instantly was like, I don't care what's going to happen in this film. I love it already. I just love that whole aesthetic. That janky is a really good word for it. It's just scuzz. I really like that. So like, when you recommended it, I was like, oh, here we go. First one. Let's do it. And yeah, it's from the off putting it in that machine and looking at that picture and that crappy logo that appears, which I now think is brilliant. Like, what a brilliant crappy logo with the over thick blood dripping cliche, hell. But just with that grain on the film, it looks like a fifth generation film stock that's just been used for so many other things beforehand. And they've been lucky enough to get some stuff. Let's go out and do this. I feel like it almost has this sense that they weren't planning to make a feature film because do you know what I mean? It's obviously that short for a reason. And you feel like perhaps they've even stretched it to running time. And the whole thing with the mobsters at the beginning, I mean, it starts off for completely different films the way it ends. So you feel like it almost feels like two sort of films tagged on to each other. And the gangsters are just so this so dreadful. Because Frederick Friedall, the guy who directed it, he is the younger of the three mobsters. No, I didn't know that. The guy with the big curly hair. Yeah. Yeah. That's the director. It looks like Bob Ross. Yes, looks very much like Bob Ross. No, I didn't know that. I didn't know that was him. That's brilliant. He can't act whatsoever. No. Just like whispering his way through the film. And the other mobster who just kind of basically spends the whole film trimming his nails, just sitting there and just like... They're weird criminals, right? They're meant to be on the run. And yet when they first terrorise this store clerk, there's no reason to do what they're doing and to bring that much attention to themselves. If they're on the run, obviously you want to keep a sort of low profile. Yeah. And they're just escalating everything. And it's got very funny sort of fake blood scene where there's tomato catch up being shot and it's dripping out the woman's head. And I just sort of liked that. I thought, all right, this is a sort of film we're in for. But we weren't, like you say, we were not in for that film. This isn't what this is. He did another film at the same time, which is called Kidnap Coet, which I think he made. I might have even made back-to-back because most of the cast are in it. I've never seen it because it's really hard to get hold of. You can get a double VHS sort of import for 30 quid with acts. But I'd love to see it because, you know, if it's got the same tone and the same sort of nihilistic vibe as this film, because it's one of a kind, man. It really is. It's really, I think, acts is a real one-off. And it's also obviously worth mentioning that when it was on the video, the last used list, it was known as California Axe Massacre. It's not exactly a masocha, is it? I mean, only two people get killed right now. So I mean, obviously, you know, I think we know what film they were trying to cash in on with that title. But pray tell. And did you, I mean, did you pick up on the fact that the blood looked exactly the same as the soup she kept feeding everybody? Was that meant to be some sort of symbolism that they were? I just think it was a budgetary thing. That's all they had that looked remotely like blood. There were some, like, definitely some clever elements to the film. I mean, Leslie Lee, a steering actress, but very, very, very captivating on the screen. There's some moments where she turns, there's one way she turns around when she's looking in the bathroom mirror. And she sees a snake burning its way out of the plug hole. Right. Well, she turns back and it's gone. But then later on when she kills, is it Lomax? I can't remember which one is. When she kills him, after she's claimed the bath, she turns around and his tie is in the bathtub in the exact same shape the snake was. I didn't know this. Just weird stuff like that. I feel like there's these really weird idiosyncrasies that make this film quite, like, a horror film, like, it's quite scary. There's something really menacing about it. I mean, where she's putting the bodies, I think she stops one at the chimney room. There's other elements of it which are really odd that there's a scene when some bloke runs past the house and the villains try and chase him, but then nothing comes at that scene. Nobody knows who that was. I think, what was the point in that scene? This unexplained thing. This is why you're loved TCM so much is because you don't know what's going on with that family. You just stumble across their house. Why is one of them a chef? Why is one of them a hitchhiker? Where's the mum and dad? They're all meant to be brothers. There's no women living in the house. How long have they been there? What's the deal with grandpa in the attic? That's what I love about films. This era is not being told the backstory just because it makes your brain going to overdrive. That's what acts did for me. It turned something in my head that maybe think, "Guys, I can't shake this image of this girl in this blonde dress to capitating chickens and just taking care of three criminals single-handling." It just really stuck with me and then obviously the whole deal with her, the rumours about her coming suicide after the film and just disappearing and no one's heard of her since it's done. There's an element of horror. I'm going to get back to horror. That's the word to describe it. It's a horror film. Everything about it is horror. You mentioned tone there and it's a very strange tone in this one. Even some of the shots, they seem very detached, avoid any sort of emotion. It's a really weird way to execute a film. It's so indifferent. It doesn't care what you think. I don't know whether that's intentional or it's just luck that it happened. There's so much of it that it happened for the whole running time that I don't think it can be luck. I think it had to be presented that way. He must have been saying, "No, don't smile or if you're going to smile, just do it with the blank eyes." It's a very weird way, a weird way to approach film. Does that lack of emotion, does that add to this weird horror thing for you? Yeah, definitely. Even over the opening credits, you can see her, the silhouette of the house and you can see her walking across the garden into the house at the beginning and where was she going? What was that all about? Has she just disposed of something else? Is she the criminal? Is she the one that's causing all of this mischief and mayhem? These three guys got lucky because she didn't. It's a mysterious film now. There are films it reminds me of, but very few. As I say, it's very similar to TCM. After seeing Texas Chainsmasket, I was desperate to see something else like this, like TCM, but there was nothing out there. I mean, watching Egan Alive, Death Trap, the film we did afterwards, didn't work for me. I never really wrote about that film, but there were films like, have you seen Midnight? No. And obviously again, like Unhinged. Let's go Jessica to Death. I mean, it's the same sort of thing. It's an unexplained melancholy down the horror film and nothing really needs to happen because the characters, the appearance, the characters, the house itself, the location speaks for itself. There's a couple of bits that I've got to shout out here. So Austin McKinney, cinematographer, done all the camera work here at times. It's very sort of scattery. And they're not the ones that I really like. The shots I really like are the still setups that could be like paintings. And again, with that grain of film, it just works so well. It feels so, it's time, so 70s. And yeah, you mentioned it that I've got written down here. It reminds me of eating alive, just that, that grain of that film. Yeah. But I feel like eating alive is this film, but with over emotion. So it's gone completely the other way. So this film's a lack of emotions. And eating alive is just like so over the top, so ridiculous. So yeah, a real juxtaposition, but I was watching it. And I was just always thinking of that shot reminds me a little bit of eating alive. Eating lives is a funny one because on paper, it should be one of my favorite films, but I just don't massively enjoy it. I've seen it so many times. I think Neville Brann's good, but I don't know. And the settings are amazing. Eating alive like on the bay, it's just so cool. Would you say that you were a fan of that? Would you watch it again? I'm already planning to watch it again. So yeah, I think because of its running time, it's so attractive. It's readily available. I picked it up for, I think, three pounds of music magpie. So you know, you can get it anywhere. And as I say, it does look janky. It's not a first time pick. You know, if you've just discovered the shining, this is not where I would go. You know, at the same time, if you are like up to your waist already in horror and you're just loving it and what's the next thing, what's the next thing, definitely try this one out because it is weird and janky. It's so remarkably of its time as well. And I really loved the promotional art that was made for this film because there are some posters that they're just amazing. It's almost like the posters probably took more time to make them the film. Amazing, absolutely amazing. And as I say that the picture with the axe that you shared, that's probably like, you know, it's one of my favorite of the horror images. Everything about it, just the blue sky and the mystery of this this person. Yeah, yeah. Final question. Does it deserve to be on the list? Not now. I mean, I assume it was on the list because of the title. I mean, if it had come out under the name Lisa Lisa, which was the original title, I don't think there'd be any need or called to even question it. Even if there was an axe on the cover, it's not. I mean, if you're kind of judging a film by the poster up and something like "Jagged Edge" would have been a video nasty. You know what I mean? Right. Yep. So if it had gone by its original name, the same, I guess, with I spit on your grave. I know I spit on your grave, it's got a little bit more of a history. But that was obviously originally called "The Day of the Woman", which again, if you were like the BBC going through these lists of films, you probably wouldn't question that title. Do you know what I mean? On the back burner, you're right. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] So that was a little bit of the score from George Newman. Sure. Was that an intentional rap? I don't think so. As a composer, I can't really comment on any of his other work, but this score is perfect for the scuzzy, filthy feel of this grimy movie. There is this one key piano in use, and I couldn't place it, but it sure has the same feel for the keys as Prince. Hear me out, hear me out. Prince, when he plays piano, he always plays slightly behind the beat, and therefore he has this precise but lazy feel about him when he does so. And George Newman sure exactly the same deal here. I also love the repetition of the bongo motifs that are just scattered throughout the score. What is great and sort of unsettling about this is in no places does it feel like a horoscope? Even when some of the notes bend and the pace picks up, it really is quite low key. It is just all about the scuzz. And when you look at the actual picture quality of the film and the actual content of the film and the pacing of the film, it just works perfectly. Right. If you want to watch this, then it is pretty cheap from the likes of Music Magpie on DVD. That's what I did. I've got it from there. Or you can if you want to, just watch it on YouTube. It's available on there as high def as you can actually get it. But if you want to listen to more information about this a me and Graham can give, then don't look at podcasts. I couldn't find any other podcasts that deal with this. So there we go. That is Axe aka Lisa Lisa. The bill has been designed to look at the special problem of people seeing films at home. Now the use of the word home is very ambiguous for new legislation. If it means anything at all, it's a license to print money for lawyers. Because inevitably, the question will be, what is home? Does home in fact mean the Englishman's castle where we have a greater freedom to do things than we can do on the streets? Or does home equal children? And of course, the moral campaigners will actually take their second definition and say, home equals children, and therefore films that are unsuitable for children should not be available for home entertainment. At 16 from the heart of everybody's favourite producer, Mr Harvey Weinstein, well maybe. Just watch this one with that in mind. It's a rather spiffing the burning. And I loved by looked him up and it said, Harvey Weinstein, born March 19th, 1952, is an American former film producer and convicted sex offender. That's in the heading now. Thank you, Wiki. But here to join me for this conversation is the magnificent author and wanted Edinburgh tour guide. It's John Tanxilon. Tony Maylam was previous to this movie, the director of a couple of live concert movies, including a Genesis one. And surprisingly, after this, he only directed a handful of other movies, but nothing really of note for us lot in the horror community, and nothing has gained the same traction for him or the same reverence as the burning has over the years. The Burning is a film that dwells on the New York based urban legend of Cropsey, who's like a boogeyman type figure. I imagine if you listen into this, you already know that sort of thing, but I didn't. And also, as John mentions in our chat in just a few moments, there is this documentary out there based purely on this legend. And would you believe it's also called Cropsey? And I've now seen it. And I've got to say, it's really entertaining and definitely worth your time, especially after having seen the burning first. So yeah, we have as the guest on the podcast today, a main channel podcast in regular in the shape of author and YouTuber John Tantillon. Now you can find him rather easily online by typing in North Edinburgh nightmares into any of your favourite social media hubs. And you can listen to your heart's content to his sultry Scottish tones as he takes you through the ghastly tales of Edinburgh on the North Edinburgh and Nightmares YouTube channel. That's where I found him lurking about being all dangerous, being all spooky. So let's just join in on this conversation as we settle in with John's discovery of the video nasties. When this chat is done, I think we're going to have to investigate the soundtrack as well, so stay tuned for that. We'll dig a little deeper. Enjoy! And if you're thinking about being with someone that no one can see you, don't because this summer, a legend of terror isn't just a campfire story anymore. They take his master's way through the bunk room door, just a mass of flames. Ride out! I will return! I will have my revenge! He lives on whatever he can catch. Right now, he's out there, watching, waiting. What happened one summer five years ago is about to happen, and I came, and I came, and I came, and I came. Bob burning. John, welcome back to the podcast. Hello, good to be back. It's been a couple of months, I think, since we've spoken. Yes, and I'm really happy for you to be joining us on this video nasty thing, video nasties. I love it. This film is so talked about years before I saw it, I knew about the cover, the garden shears, I knew what this film was, I'd just never seen it. And of course, Arrow have now put me straight and put a lovely print out, but I've got to ask you first of all, because we're doing this for the video nasties. What's your history of video nasties? How did you find out about it, and were you excited when you found out about it, or did it scare you? Well, so I thought, so my age in the closer side of 50, you know, it was everywhere in 1984. So when you watched the young ones, when you looked in the papers, when you watched the news, everywhere you looked was video nasties. And so, as I said before, a lot of people claimed to have seen video nasties that hadn't, with extra for instance. There was other ones like The Thing and Evil Bed. But when we got our first video record, it was a beat of Max, there was a very dodgy video shop along the road that still had them after 1984. I had lots of the titles and a lot of the ones, I didn't know at the time you could get under the counter they had. But I would recall my auntie recommending I spit in your grave to my mum and dad, and they did. You know how dear what it was about. They luckily couldn't get it on beat of Max. But I got free rein to basically pick whatever I wanted. The one, not an official DPP 39 title, but Texas Chainsaw Massacre caught my young age and seeing it on the shelf, along with likes of Class '84 and stuff like that, which we hired out and thoroughly enjoyed. But when we got down to the existing DPP 39 titles that were still in the shelves of the shop, the shop's called BG Video. So it was just a wreak to sleaze. They had the likes of Night of the Demon was there with a wonderful looted cover of the moon on the front. There was things like Tenebree. There was a Night of the Damage Brain. There was Night of the Bloody Apes, all still on the shelf and about 1985. So we hired most of them from that shop. As time went on, we went to other shops and picked up titles that later on, I discovered, the list I didn't realise were video nasties. There was a couple of like the Cannibal ones. There was things like the Fun House, which was on the list, but on a low down draw it. So there was many ones we picked up along the way like that. Then there was a chap at my auntie's work in a factory nearby who could get you anything. So he had a locker and his work name is Freddie. And she used to come home with all kinds of stuff. And saying that's something that he kind you'll like that. So from a copy of Empire Strikes Back with Pink Snow that I don't know how he got it because it wasn't, you know, readily available. I don't think it was even out. But then we started getting bootleg copies of the nasties. And one of them was the Burnin. So that was the entry to those sort of films. So I'd say that around about the mid 80s we'd have seen possibly less than half of the 39 titles. But you're still quite a few of them. That's amazing. That's crazy. Because I read that you could end up going to prison. And in fact they made an example of one or two people that actually did have to two times because they were selling these things. So it's a big risk just for you. It was the guy from what was the video completed world of the video 2000 that night was a damaged brain. I think he got a sentence because he released a slightly longer version of the BBFC had agreed on. So do you think they really made an example of them? There was a competition about gas, the weight and the brain and the jar, which they thought was in pretty pure taste. But he got a stretch, the guy got a sentence which was horrendous. When they think about it, you know, it's crazy. I was young at this point. And I remember that sort of newspaper blow up of it all. So if it is around the same time, I remember the day Empire Strikes Back came out for proper. So you must have seen it maybe a year or so before that I would take it. But yeah, around that time, like in the day my mum and dad were daily mirror people, I remember them being pictures as well of the video covers. And yeah, and it was proper a scary thing. And of course, me just I don't regularly go to the cinema at all. I hadn't been since Australia in fact when I lived there. Right. E.T. So it's like a fair few years before that. And it was one of these things that until very much later on, things like I thought the exorcist was just like this, not even a real thing. I just thought it was this myth, you know, it was something so scary. So this is so incredible. Like it will, you know, kill you if you watch it. Actually, all that press had worked and really made me fearful of these things until later on when I sort of just embraced like heavy metal music and punk and horror and all this stuff. I started just high. This is what I've been missing out on. But you can see how this sort of press campaign worked. And of course, my parents would have killed me if they'd seen me with a video nasty. So I just what I'm really interested in like for people that are slightly older than that, just like getting their hands on these things because it must have felt like currency. It must have felt like this gold treat that you've got. So in the 80s and the later half of the 80s, we're still getting them readily available from outlets like that. Like the last days, independent shops before you had not so much blockbuster, but there was a chain like the one called Ritz that was around. I'm not sure if you had it in England, but certainly in Scotland, there was Azad, there was other sort of semi small chains. But the ones down the line from that was one called Target. There was one D&D video store. They were lawless times. It really was like Mad Max, you know, where you could get stuff that you weren't meant to watch. And there was, you know, believe it or not, it was things like the Exorcist were difficult ones to get hold of because they were so well talked about. But if you wanted some extra, if you wanted, you know, things like even the uncut Halloween too was, you know, something still quite readily available, zombie-keeping flesh, stuff like that. And that, you know, lasted until the last days of the 80s. So it was about this time about 89 when I got into collecting and then tape trading with people. And, you know, sending lists and trading with people around the country. And it was amazing the amount of people in Edinburgh that were doing it. It was great. I mean, there was like a real camaraderie. People you never met. There's still never met this day somewhere. They used to send lists and trade by post and things. And then as well, car boots sales was a big goer for getting cassettes. There was lots of record fairs in car boots sales where you'd get, you know, hard to find titles. So I recall there was one along the way where I live now. And it was an old shopping centre called the Train Centre. And it was when it closed, it was converted into indoor market. I remember going along in Haglin with a guy with a copy of Space Hunter and something else to get a copy of Class '84 on Beata, which hadn't seen it hired out. And it was like that. It was all a bit kind of Arthur Daily-ish, you know, chock hat and as well. And you can have that if, come on, you know, Haglin with people for films. But yeah, that's when it really took off when you got the real forbidden fruit. Were these their thing cut to pieces when you got them as bootleggo or they the young cut the real deal? It was a bit of both. The first, so instances of tracking down things like Cannibal Holocaust. I got out of fat chat pubs at school and his mum worked in one of the shops, Target Video. And when the titles were all taken off the shelf, she kept a lot. She says these will be an investment. So he had them on a cupboard. And I went to his house one day of it. And I came away with a bag with the last house on the left, original in VHJ's. There was Cannibal Holocaust, original. Flay for Frankenstein. There was an original The X or Sisty had. There was host other titles, Chainsaw Massacre, Red and White Cover. And I needed to ask you that because as I say, I'm getting different answers from everyone when I'm talking about like their discovery of video nasties. And it's a real interesting thing of how people have got into them. You mentioned the burning. This is about the burning. The first time you watched the burning, did it stand out to you from from those other titles? Or was it just another one that you'd like to come back to now and again? The burning. Now I must have watched during the same time. Friday 13th, one and two must have seen them from the guy at Manti's work, I think. So that's where we got the first copy of the Burnham. I love this guy. Yeah, Freddie. So we got that and watched it. And it was, it was very confusing because it had similar scenes from Friday 13th, the part two, the campfire scene, when they're telling the story and I'm like, right, which one's ripped? What job? But it was hugely satisfying just with the sheer violence and the shears and the raft and things. So that was a bit of a, you watched that when my friends a few times, and of course the name crops, it just rolls off the tongue. It's like the crops you mean, you know, Jason, for you're not a bit cropsy. So yeah, we, you know, we watched that in about 1986 or 87 maybe. And, you know, lost it along the way. Of course, you'll loan it to somebody and never go back. Then I was trading with a guy from Edinburgh from Samhain magazine, it was, and I had classified in Samhain and he lived around the corner from me. So we got in touch. He wanted to trade for a copy, I can't remember what it was. He went round and made him lovely guy, my main friends for years. And he had a VHS original that burned him. So he says, yeah, just take it away, make a copy or whatever. And we watched, I thought, Jesus, this is totally different. I remember it. We had, I'd seen the cut version, right, on BMX. This was the uncut version. Now, you know the story about thorny, I recall in all the tapes and sending out ones with different stickers, you know that. So this was one of the lucky ones, one of the original ones that was totally uncut. I couldn't remember half of the gore. Then the, you know, the raft scene, I thought, wow, where did all this go? You know, it was shocked and, you know, convinced I'd seen a different film. So after that, the bottom, we were all huge fans, me and all my friends, you know. Was it Savini that sort of tipped you over the edge with that one? Like his, like gore and his craft of like the macabre and everything that he was adding to this film, was it him that brought you in more to this one than other films? Because I remember Fangoria at the time doing a piece on him. And it was just like, I can't wait to see these films. It was probably late 80s that I saw and it had like pictures of all this stuff that he'd worked on. This guy seems something else. Well, we were, you know, obsessed with Savini at that time, the late 80s, 1990s sort of time. We got a tape called, was it Fangoria Scream Greats? And it was all about Tom Savini. It was a documentary out on, and if you can catch it, it's really good still to this day. And he's hosting it, talking about the films he'd done, and he set up, he says, "I'm a killer going to work." And you see him like, he's pulling at all his tools to do the effects. He's like, "This guy is so cool," you know. And he's showing you clips from how he did some of the stunts. And it was the scene from The Burning where the guy in the raft, it's the shears through his neck. He was showing you how he did that, cropped it up with a coat with a gloves, but, you know, filming from a different angle and you're seeing Savini telling the camera about what he's going to do and stuff. He's like, "Gee, yes." And the prosthetic, you know, neck on the guy and stuff, and interviewing the people from The Burning as well, from this, his gold dust. So, yeah, when you see Savini and he was quite comical in it, he's doing all kinds of, you know, comical stuff. You know, he was very kind of down here. So, like, he's pretty cool, you know. So, like, they've all painted him, you know. So, he wasn't about that. Above all edgend. He's, well, he was the one, like, and I'm talking, like, early '90s. So, I'm definitely behind you guys. But, like, it was one of those things where we would talk about it and I would pull out that old van Gory and we would look and we would, like, tick off ones that we'd seen. Like, how did you get hold of this one and that sort of thing. And it was one of those things that you actually, you're bonding with friends and perks your interest more and it really digs you into the underground a little bit because you've seen the bigger titles, but, like, you're thinking, right, okay, what's this one? And, of course, The Burning, I think, for me, it's why I always thought this was that untouchable one because of Savini. Before I'd even seen it, I must admit, when I first saw it, I was so really disappointed because I'd built it up over years upon years in my head to be this master class, this master work. And, of course, Latter-day, yeah, it's a lot of Harvey Weinstein stuff that gets into this. So, what do you know about that? Do you know, like, his relationship with that film? I heard it was, like, the first thing he got involved with, but that's really all about it. It was, yes, with Miramax. I mean, it was one of the first Miramax productions. I recently watched the commentary with Tony Mailam. Was it the guy who directed it? Harvey Weinstein doing the commentary. That's for sure. But this was a time before it all came out. And Harvey Weinstein, they were talking about him in the commentary. And that was interesting just how it attudes at the time they wouldn't see anything bad against him. But they were just saying, "It wasn't everyone's cup of tea." But, yeah, you know, we got on and stuff. And, obviously, now with, you know, the revelations that came out about him, there was a couple other instances of things that kind of picked up on watching it again after what's all came out that I've never noticed that scene before in that light. You know, I'm not going to go into that too much, but there's a few scenes I've never looked at that. And with the commentary as well, a few key scenes of the burning, the first murder being one of them. But in thinking that's a bit salacious for what was going about at the time. But, yeah, I mean, it was the first film. It was also, I believe, George Harrison. He was involved to an extent with the production of it. It comes up at the start, handmade films. Now, it's his company. I didn't know that at all. I mean, I will watch it with the commentary next time, for sure, just to get that. Have we talked about that arrow release? Yes, it's brilliant. The new one. It's fascinating. I think there's a few commentaries on it. But the one, I think it's Tony Milum, and he's English. He's talking about his background to it, and how he got involved and stuff, and talking about where they were raising the money from, you know, the Weinstein's to produce their first production for Miramax, which, of course, would go on to be enormous. Miramax, with, you know, pulp fiction and the likes, you know, kill them. Yeah, you've mentioned something there a couple of times now. So, what we'll do, I think, is we'll just talk about the stuff that doesn't work so much, first of all, with that's all right. And for me, it is the opening when he's killing that sex worker. I can't see any reason why this sort of scene is in there. It doesn't really explain to me anything about this fellow, except he's just going to kill anyone. But there's no reason why he would do that. Is there any reason why you think this is in here? Yes, they'll discuss it in the commentary. Right. The scene, I think they say it's just to kind of get the pace going with a murder, an opening montage of the murder. I don't know if it's maybe cropped, you just see, and if he's got it in him to commit the murder, you know, after spending five years in the hospital. Another, I don't know, it's, I've spoke to people since about this, never thinking perhaps, I don't know if it was Miramax's idea to include it, because it's a very salacious scene. It's pretty in context when a lot of the rest of the film. So, I really don't know if it could have been studio interference. We want a gory scene here. We want that to be bloodier. We want more of this. I'm not sure about that, but it is very out of context from his path to going back to Camp Blackfruit and tracking down relevant children. So, yeah, it's, you know, the opening scenes kind of like just, it looks tagged on, basically. Yeah, I was getting that feeling, but again, these are not major concerns, to be honest with you. It doesn't ruin the film, but something that can get really under my skin watching it on my recent rewatch is how horrible the majority of the men are. It's like, all these men are dicks. There is maybe 20% of people that are okay in this. I don't believe that sort of thing. I know you've got to set up this team, but it looks like a little bit like, you know, porkies or a film like that, when they're establishing all these characters. And, you know, when you're watching porkies, it's from this time everyone's being sexist. The language used is like that of the early 80s, late 70s and that sort of thing. So, you can forgive a lot of that. But with this one, they're just being dicks for dicksake a lot of the time. And it's something that I just annoys me a bit, especially in those canteen scenes, because a lot of these characters, like that you're meant to be following and cheering on, they're just saying some really shitty things. So, do you think, for a moment, it could have been Weinstein's intrusion saying, no, I want more of this. I mean, I've thought about that since I watched the commentary, starting with the murder of the lady at the start, who is far older than anyone else in the film. You know, and it's just going to a bit off. You know, the lady that plays the lady of the night, she was in kind of cute Westerns when she was younger and stuff, she hasn't acted in a while, and then she gets this horrible, career-ending role as, you know, it's that, you know, it's like a fool, like, you know, the New York ripper is a chewy at the end role with it. And then, you know, other scenes, they're just so salacious. There's a scene when they're playing baseball and the camera just zooms in on one of the females and it's a necessary, there's no need for it. So, maybe, I don't know, it was maybe, Harvey Weinstein asking for more TNA. It could have been. It could have been. That's the thing. I'm not going to get him on to ask him. Let's put it that way. Yeah, I mean, the film, when you compare it to Friday 13th, too, which came at the same year, and the very similar films, that a lot of the characters in Friday 13th can find a lot of sympathy with. They're all, you know, they're quite likable characters. There's no glazer, the bully, and there's no, they're really sexist. The chap with the curly neck, he needs, what's his name? I can't remember the character. Oh, yeah, I know that. He's turned up in many things. Yeah, and even Woodstock, Fisher, Stevens and stuff. They've all got their sort of dislike abilities to them. You know, they're only sort of guy, even Alfred. He's out and out creep. You know, the guy that's watching the girl in the showers and stuff. So it's, there's not the sympathy in that that there is with the characters in Friday 13th, I think. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's a concern throughout this film for me. One of the things that I don't know if I really enjoy it, or if I don't know that I hate it, and I'd love to know your opinion on this one, is the campfire ghost story, because we'd seen it the year before in the fog. So, it's been done. It's been established as part of big horror film releases. This is something that you can now include. And of course, the burning does rip a lot off of a lot of things, but I thought that's unnecessary. But when you watch it, I love it. I'm torn. There's a camp not far from here, just across the lake. It was called Camp Blackfoot. No one goes there anymore. Everything burnt down. This camp had a caretaker. His name was Cropsy. Now, this Cropsy was a sadist. And you got real pleasure out of hurting people, scaring them. And he had these garden shears, the kind with long, thin blades. He carried them all the time, wherever he went. And he had this kind of demonic way of looking at you. One time, Cropsy really went after this kid from Brooklyn. Followed him around night and day. He made this kid's life living hell. But this time he chose the wrong guy. Because the kid and some of his buddies had planned a little prank. The only problem was the gag went wrong. The next thing anyone knows, Cropsy's trapped alive and burning in his bunk. They try to get him out with the fire so fierce they can't reach him. All they can do is stand outside and listen and cry out in agony. They say he smashed his way through the bunk room door, just a mass of flames. And as he burned alive, he cried out. I will return. I will have my revenge. And the way it's set up is fantastic because it's the exact same scene for scene in Friday 13th, part two. When he's saying, you know, I'm going to give it to you straight. It was a camp in your pie and Jason's out there. And the guy jumps out with him, asking, this one is set up like a jello. He's talking about it and it zooms in on the girl's face and binder. You see the shine of a glove full of light and knife. And it is almost like someone at a jello, how good it is. And then all of a sudden, the face appears looking like the character at the funhouse. That is, you know, streets ahead of what they did in Friday 13th, too, with the exact same scene. So I think it works so well, you know, when it's the fear on a lot of the actors' faces, Fisher Stevens and the likes when it happens, you know. There was a documentary that came out some years ago called Cropsy. Have you ever seen it? It is on my watch list and I was wondering if it's something to do with this because it's too close, right? Yeah, well, it explains the theory about the Cropsy Maniac, which has never been legend told to children in summer campfire just like that. And that's what the documentary is about. And it's terrific if you can track it down. Yeah, I think it's on, might be on Amazon right now. Yeah. But yeah, I definitely got it in one of my watch lists. So yeah, OK, cool. Now, we're going to move on to favorite bits. Now, I want to give you mine, first of all, and it might not be one that you would think, but I just love it. And that's what really brings me into this film because it feels, it feels real amongst a lot of stuff, which seems hyper real. And it's the fact, I just think it's fantastic. There's that naked swim scene. And they're going into there. There's no naked flesh, but you don't see, of course, you don't see a penis. Why would you? Yeah, you never see a penis. But yeah, so they're naked in there. And there's a rejection. Karen rejects him. Now, there is some real tension. And it's really down to ever it really feels real of what's going on. And you don't know where this is going to go next. And this isn't like supernatural. This isn't like the baddie, the villain. This is just human against humans. And it feels real. And it really got me a lot like last house on the left, that sort of is in the air. And I loved that. And in this film, I just thought it wouldn't have anything like that in it. And it did. It's very realistic how nasty suddenly becomes, whether when she's saying no, and he's trying to be all sweet up to the end. And he's, you know, shit in the water, and stuff. And of course, when they wake him up, he's not really concerned. I don't know where she was. You'll believe me alone. Yeah, there was other classic scenes in it, as a glazer, the bully. Now, they talk about it in the commentary scene. He looks 10 years older than everyone else. And he's this big, muscular character, a sleeveless top and a mullet, bullying the kids at the summer camp. He comes out with some great lines in it that Larry, was it Larry Joshua? I can't remember. Was that Crops? You can't remember. But he comes out with some very good lines. Just the ones I can't remember when he's trying to charm the girl to go and sleep with them and stuff. And even when he's being nasty Alfred and woodstock and stuff, it's all great one-liners. Sounds like he should have been in the Warriors. He's got that sort of, you know, like, I can't remember the guy's name that they had sort of hard manner at the Warriors. He did, you know, fed him nicely there. But yeah, he comes out with some great one-liners. Playing another scumbag, though, like, and yet another one, like, and then one of the, the real ones that you're thinking, "Oh, I just want you to get it. I want you to get it really bad." We got to talk about the rough scene, right? We've got to talk about that because this is what my first watch was all building up to because everyone talks about the rough scene, fangoria, my friends, like even written on the back of the case, the infamous scene. So, you know, watching it uncut, I think it lived up to it. I think it was something else. It's incredible. So, um, the rough scene, the first thing we watched it, and remember this was Beat 'Em Act. This was the cut version, which was really edited on the raft scene. We watched it. My friend dropped a glass of juice. I always remember that. The scene in it's the noise of boom, boom, boom, boom, we've got to sit in our pad and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and this John, my friend, dropped this glass and I'm like, "Jesus!" You know, when Ben Cropsy jumps out, the, the, the raft, the canoe. So, when we saw the cut version, I mean, the cut's where his follows, um, the scene with Fisher, Fisher Stevens fingers was completely not there. There was the scene with the, the guy getting the shears neck was chopped, nope, and intended. Most of it was gone. I think there was remnants left with the girl getting the shears over her head, but every bit was cut. So, imagine seeing it unexpectedly with everything back. It was a shocker. It really was. I will admit to rewinding it and sort of spoiling the flow of the film just because from that, from the moment when they're creeping up on it until the ending of it, including an incredible silhouette shot, it's just so well crafted. And again, it's these little things, these little arty bits and this real clever filmmaking that sort of sets it above so many other copycat films of that year, which I've started to go through now. And there's loads. There's lots of them. I've got to ask you, Rick Weintman's score. How does it affect you? Because me and you, we've both come from this punk background. And here we go. We've missed the prog, giving it some wellie in this score. I got it. I tell you right now, I love it. It's, it's a very haunting score. When you listen to the soundtrack, it's got different, you know, cuts of the songs in it that weren't in the movie. So you're like similar versions of the rafts seen in things. And it is. It's fantastic. Tension building prog rock. From the, you know, the opening scene, when, you know, like the, the haunting sort of music to the suspenseful bits where the stinger is leading up to Cropsy Strike. And it's a hell of a exciting soundtrack. And when you watch the extra on the Blu-ray interview, we've been talking about how he came to do the soundtrack for the, the burning and, you know, how they negotiated a deal with them and stuff. It's fascinating as well. You know, he's buried down the earth. And he's talking about saying, you know, we go, I want, can you get paid? Or I'll give you a share in the film is what they said telling. He says, no, I'll just take the money mate. And he says, wait, I see it one day. There was no one there. So he's then Japan got ahold of it. It was huge. You know, so I should have the percentage in the film. Yeah. Right. Even today. Yeah. I did see Rick Wake when one day was playing the Winter Gardens at my local town. And he was with his entourage, just walking up the high street. And he was so tall, like so ridiculously tall compared to his bodyguards or whoever it was around him. And yeah, I didn't even have the guts go right massive bloke. Yeah. Not as good as Rick Wake then story as it could be there. But yeah, there we go. I've seen him in real life. And it's huge. Yeah. Yeah. And do you think that this film, the burning is actually deserved of its place in this top 39 video nasties? Do you think it should be there? Personally, in this stage, I think the whole thing's a fiasco. They should never have been in the first place. But we wouldn't be talking about it now. You know, that's the thing. You know, it's given them a bit of, you know, infamous notoriety, just like, you know, some music does, you know, some death metal bands of the day that people still talk about in whispers because of their content, same with punk and the likes. The the burning, certainly when you put against the likes of House and Edge of the Park, Glass House and the Left, Cannibal Hall, of course, Gustavo's Last Orgy, these really shocking titles, it holds its ground, but it's a slasher form at the end of the day. It's not sexually explicit, like I spit in your grave is, but it is still pretty vicious. And the BBFC sort of later would go on to have a massive hissy fit about weaponry, glorified weaponry in films. So the shears alone would be enough to follow me say, whoa, we're not having that. So until it was released in 1992, cut to ribbons for the Viptko release, you know, they would, you know, sort of it very much an inclusion and 39 because of the weaponry, I think, certainly garb, household garden shears. And I can see that because they are when they're covered in blood. I don't know, they're just so threatening. It's such a, it's such a key thing to this film. And like when you think of it, when I close my eyes and think of the burning, I'm always thinking of that poster. And there they are, you know, dripping. It's the, it's the whole sort of jalos that look with the leather gloves, the black coat, this black fedora hat, you never see his face till the end, it's so chilling. The black handle of the shears and the chrome, you know, it really speaks ahead of like, sort of Jason, what he was up to in the first two films, this is like a jalos, the way he looks, as it's very sinister. Do you think it still will resonate with audiences today, seeing it for the first time? Because I know that I'm not the normal sort of person, I'm, I'm knees and whole body deep into this stuff. But like for the average horror viewer, this was at the cinema on a re-release and they went to see it, would it hold its ground against like the screams and the hallowings that have been released? I don't know. I mean, tastes and fashions change so often, I mean, 10 years ago, 12 years ago, the people that were exposed to saw, hostile, vacancy, etc, you'd be so desensitized to film like the burning today. But the trend now is more sort of substance over, over gore, I believe, the torture porn sort of thing is not around just now. So maybe if you were, you know, going to see something like mid-summer, or you're going to see something like insidious, and then you saw the shears of cropsy, maybe it would, you know, kind of hit you, you know, nowadays, whereas 12 years ago, it wouldn't because you were just spoiled with torture porn and the likes. The human saint had been all this stuff. So yeah, I don't know if you were sort of 15 watching it now, maybe. I would hope so, because I know the sales from the Arrow Blu-ray were really busy on release, which is always good to hear, because there's some titles that don't do so well, so I really liked hearing that. John, thank you so much for taking part. No worries. [Music] [Music] That was from the soundtrack by Rick Wakeman from the film The Burning. Now, the reason why I brought it up in the chat, I think it is so important in making this film actually work and standing out from the other American slashes of the time. There was a lot in this pack, and I'm not the biggest prog fan, and there's no beating around the bush. This is definitely a prog record crafted by some would say the most famous progressive musician to have ever walked the earth. But I think of it as horror prog. I think that lets me sleep better at night, and there is a slight unnameable, untangible difference. It's the same thing that Goblin have or Tangerine dream bring to the table, or even that relapse records recording artist Zombie, what they deliver. It is this unknowing love of horror that infects and is fused within the music somehow. And I only discovered this mad record six months ago, and I've listened to it maybe 20 times, maybe 30, I don't know a lot of times in that space of time. I just think that this album is so terribly uncool and early 80s sounding. Whilst definitely being a product of its time, I would say it's also ridiculously cool for being that uncool. It's a hipster treasure trove. I can just imagine a tight-panted, moustached, sure-ditch trio releasing it today, and just being loved by the masses. I think it's magical this soundtrack. And if you take a track off this one like Sheer Terror and More, maybe it's my favourite from the whole lot, it just starts off so entrenched in cosmic horror, it's inescapably part of this horror thing that I love. But it also has, within its frame, a few moments where horror just simply leaves a building in favour of funk, jazz, and in the midpoint it sort of claps into a children's TV banger, and then it folds itself back into horror again. It's really bloody weird. And it is a bit of a shame. You can still find this on CD and vinyl, but it isn't cheap. So I have to admit to you that I listen to it exclusively on YouTube, just like the loser that I am. And there you have it. That is my current thoughts on the burning. Just keep telling yourself, it's only a movie. It is only a movie. It's only a movie. It's only a movie. It's only a movie. It's only a movie. The sort of film which might no longer be available on video is Sam Raimi's cult horror film The Evil Dead. Despite having an ex-film certificate winning numerous awards and being the most popular video of 1983, it was prosecuted earlier this year under the obscene publications act. The film was acquitted by a jury three weeks ago, but the question remains, will the new video sensors consider it suitable for viewing in the home? And we finish up today with my number 15 pick. We've finally hit the six out of 10 rated corkers here and I mean corkers. It is expose aka the house on the straw hill from 1976 this time and Bob Bruno, he is half of sunny rocky indie band Best Coast. Yeah, it's that Bob Bruno. He's here to chat with me all about it, so let's do it. This is the house on straw hill. James Kennelm Clark, he is the director of this one and I know nothing about him except to say that his other films look a bit like Softcore Pawn with maybe comedic slants to them. If you're looking at the VHS boxes, one of them's called Fiona, one of them's called Going Undercover and of course my favourite one of course is Let's Get Laid, their examples. To celebrate this most gross of the ghastly, I invited back onto a year in horror Mr Bob Bruno. He is the godly guitarist from California and indie rockers Best Coast and in a moment you're going to hear him coming on here to discuss a film that I've sort of become fond of. I don't actually know. I saw it twice in quick succession. It is house on straw hill aka exposé. I've got a VPN so I watched on Tubi, thanks there. I was actually virtually in America. I enjoyed that experience. It was great. I clicked Seattle if you want to know. I'm sure you won't and I would recommend that you watch this one before going any further because I'm about to spoil this thing quite a lot. Easy letter box synopsis. Haunting Intrigue, a shock to your system, a paranoid writer, that's Udo. He's unable to get started on his second novel. He hires a secretary, that's Linda, and then his troubles really begin. And there were a couple of things that I didn't mention in the chat and I wrote them down just here. Let me scroll up. Here we go. The nasty, nasty, video nasty that is nasty and quite nasty, it stars Udo Kea as Paul Martin. And it starts with a TV interview with Udo telling us that he's a writer. He's played with horrific visions and he's really bloody good in this. He is aloof. He's rude. He's arrogant. But we also know that he is acting suspicious the whole time. What the hell could he be up to? What's he done in his past that is making him act so odd? And also we've got Linda Hayden. She's playing Linda Hinstat. And of course Linda Hayden was incredible in The Blood on Satan's claw five years before this one came out plus also in the cast. Let me have a look. We've got Fiona Richmond as Suzanne. Suzanne is Udo's booty call. We've got Patsy Smart as Ms. Aston. And then we've got Carl Halman as Big Youth. But really he's that bigger of the rapists. And then Vic Armstrong, he plays Small Youth who is also a rapist but slightly smaller in stature. Now I love this thing when creepy Udo plays with Linda's knickers. I love that. I know I shouldn't but I do. He does it behind her back. I'm surprised he doesn't get his nose right in there and have a good sniff. Eax proper weird in this film. To the point where there's one scene where he watches Linda masturbate. But then oddly he hates it when Linda gets it on with Suzanne. There is a lot of sex in this thing. It is sex crazy. I would say it's quite the sexy film. But that means is there a lack of horror? Well I think for the most part there is a lack of horror. But there is a pretty cool dead housekeeper reveal in a closet. It's very cool. It's very matter of fact. And it feels at that point in the film finally this is becoming a horror movie. I'm not going to go into the final final reveal just yet. We'll do that in the chat. So instead here is that chat. Between myself and Bob we recorded this at the tail end of May 2023. Enjoy it. High atop Straw Hill stands a lonely farmhouse. A farmhouse that will soon shudder from the unspeakable horror within. [Music] The house on Straw Hill. It only looks peaceful. Welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me back. Man. Before we go into this I'm so interested because that last time when I listened back to it I was like oh wow I need to contact you again. I'm so glad I have. I can't wait to talk about video nasties with you but I'm going to hold off just for a second. This will come out the beginning of the second half of the year. What have you got musically that's coming up that you're allowed to talk about? There's something that I can't talk about right now. But this summer I'll be guitar teching for Linda Lindes. So that's going to take up like a good chunk of my summer. Some other stuff in the fall. I hadn't heard of their Linda Lindes before you mentioned them last time. I have been rinsing the Linda Lindes since you've mentioned it. They're amazing. What a mad time you must have on the road of them. Yeah, yeah it's fun. They're great to tour with. Always a beat. They're like down for anything which is rad. As soon as we finished I was like right I would need to look this band up. And yeah it's one of those things you know when you discover someone new and that's all you listen to for weeks on end. Yeah yeah. Thank you so much. That's a good record to do. All right okay video nasties. Let's get into it. What's your history with these things? Is it something that you were aware of? Because it's a pretty much a UK based thing. Like how did it translate over where you were brought up? I remember probably not while it was happening but maybe in the 90s I saw like some kind of video piece somewhere on television kind of talking about that. I think it was just related to like you know the dangers of like kids watching these movies or you know something like that. And then I want to say well it started with like what I really got into it was when the nucleus put this out and later sever and the definitive guide to video nasties. And also a book came out around the same time called Art of the Nasties which was just all the covers of the films, the VHS covers and stuff. So yeah I bought both volumes of that DVD set which is like six discs total. And then from there's when I started buying more of the movies and watching them. I still haven't seen them all but I'm closing in on getting there. I've got four to go of the original but the top tier 39 I think it is. Oh wow. And yeah it's been a hell of a journey. Especially when you hit like you think you've seen it all and then you get to those Nazi ones and that's hard work. Yeah I went through a phase where I was watching a bunch of those last year. But I saw a couple more from that genre to investigate. I feel like some of it is a box ticking exercise and then you come across some that you truly love and like then I want to hunt down every single copy of it that I can through like you know and then you haven't got VHS player but I'll start bidding on some of these old showcases. I just need that in my hands. Such an addiction. It's awful. Yeah I mean some of the artwork on those boxes is just so incredible. Like SS Experiment Camp. I bought that solely based on that weird cover. It almost looks like it's a blue Frankenstein. Like it barely looks like a Nazi soldier. And then with the person upside down I actually bought that at H&V when I was on tour. There was a big sale on 88 films DVDs. And I probably bought like 30 discs. And the guy at the counter looked at me like I was nuts but you had to sail and a lot of those titles weren't being put out in the US. And so I was like I'm just gonna buy these while I can. Well you had the satanic panic over there dealing with music whilst we were dealing with the films. I remember it being in the newspapers when I was growing up. Yeah I was very young but I still remember like when you opened up the Daily Mirror and the Sun over here like the big tabloid newspapers and there'd be like the cover of Cannibal Holocaust. And this would scare the hell out of me as a kid like oh I do not want to see this. And it says like in bold type like these things are killers. So this sort of thing was like just running riot over here. My parents would confiscate the newspapers so I couldn't even see those covers. It was such a thing. But yeah it was a really strange time growing up that they were these forbidden things. And when of course when I was old enough to sort of dig through of course the first thing you're going to do just like those records. If there is something that's got that sticker on it I want it. Yeah yeah absolutely. So did it have a crossover over there with regards to metal music? I know we spoke last time that you were quite into metal. Like was it like a hand-in-hand things like you have like the covers of the slayer albums and things like that. And then as you say the covers of these things. Was it something that was like a nice melting point for you? Yeah like you know over here we had the PMRC which was a big deal. Parents music resource center where there was a congressional hearing and everything about how you know how these records were bad for children. And that's when they started putting the warning stickers on them. The parental advisories. And so yeah when that was going on was kind of when like the VHS boom was also happening and there were just so many shops and my friends we were all into horror films we were all into metal. So our weekend would just be like going to the shop and renting a bunch of titles. Some of them were actually on the we didn't know at the time they were video nasties but a few of them were from that era and we just watched those movies all weekend. So with House on Straw Hill which is how I know it but I guess everywhere in the world it's known as expose is that. Yeah yeah I came across it two weeks ago for the very first time. What was your history with this one? This one actually when you asked me to do this it was in the watch pile and I had never watched it so I was like okay well this is a good motivator but the main reason I bought and I have it here there's the Severn version that they put out is this came with a bonus disc that had another documentary about video nasties called Ban the Sadist films and that's why I bought it and I watched that disc immediately didn't watch the movie and then so I went back and watched the movie this weekend. So not a long history with the film. Cool I did exactly the same thing with I think it was Night of the Hunter which came out recently with that set and it's got like you showed it earlier the double disc of the Ban the Sadist films or whatever it was called and straight away I went for that I was like well come back to that film at another time so yeah I get you. I totally feel you. Every first watch said what did you feel what did you think of this film? I mean when I was watching it I mean number one I love Linda Hayden she's incredible like Blood on Satan's Claw. Yeah it is so awesome and everyone loves Udo Keir as well so you know just seeing them in the movie together and the movie is mostly just the two of them you know for a good chunk of it yeah so that was really cool at first I was like well there's not a ton of gore why was this a video nasty but I mean that's a case with a lot of them like if you watch Axe the same thing there's barely any gore in that that's a really like kind of fever dream like slow paced movie and this one is like kind of more like a psychological thriller but then I guess the sex scenes are what made it a video nasty and not so much well the sex with the violence scenes together is what caused the problem for that one that's that well I mean the final question I was going to ask we'll get there now is why do you think it was a video nasty so it has to be down to like the amount of nudity and sex and like there's masturbation stuff going on and you actually focus on her face as she climaxes and things like that so I guess like this sort of thing is going to stir up like the powers that be but a lot of the time I think they didn't even watch them it was just like the title oh yeah they even admitted that in some of the documentaries like they that they didn't watch the films like they had they didn't have the time to go through you know there's that huge list of films there's no way you know Mary White House or those people sat and watch those movies it's mad like there was a particular scene in this where I thought this has got to be the scene that has crossed the line and I get it and like for a film like Evil Speak or something like that where you're just scratching your head thinking how is this on the list you know yeah I just can't figure that out but with this one there is a rape scene and she's raped at gunpoint and she sort of fondles the rapist gun yeah yeah she kills them so I think maybe that was just like that's the line you've just crossed maybe yeah yeah from what I've read that was the scene that was the problematic one for that movie but I'm so glad it didn't cut it out because this scene is drenched in sex but it gives the whole thing this sort of dirty erotic feel like Udo in this he's so pervy and so lechie and makes you feel dirty before we even know what the twist is like you know there's something up with this guy the way he gorps her through crack doors and things like that but I've not I've seen him in a lot of stuff but I've not seen him quite like this I just thought he was brilliant like you know what do you feel like he brought to this film that someone else couldn't I mean he is really good he's like nails the classic like narcissist like vibe in that movie you know some of his scenes it's like almost like watching a stage play like you know they're just these dialogue scenes that go on for a pretty long time but yeah I mean he was also just such a that era like an incredibly photogenic like beautiful man and he's just captivating like the way he looks is really cool and then he you know his performances is kind of over the top but you know just enough to where it's not campy but it's just a cool whole movie to watch I love well you mentioned her so Linda Hayden like in between this and blood on Satan's core like there is that period but she there's other films she's been in that I've not seen yet I was wondering if you've seen even mad house vampira or night watch like any of those three that she was in between I haven't I haven't seen any of those there was something she was in that I had seen but it's such a small part because I didn't even really notice her in it but I don't remember what it was but yeah it's really just those two movies but both those movies there's interviews with her and she just seems like such a cool like person a fascinating person and yeah this is the one film she regrets making she said wow that's yeah she that's a bold claim considering what she went through on blood and Satan's core at that age wow yeah she said that it started out as one thing and became another so I think in her mind when she read the script and how was presented was more of like a psychological kind of thriller and then it became more like kind of like a sex movie in her eyes yeah yeah well it's still pretty soft core but it does just go sometimes it just steps over that line and I can see where she's going like it is like sometimes as we mentioned just earlier it's just almost trips that line where it's like well come on what's the point of this I'm not really for that sort of film at times it kind of has like a just Franco vibe in some of those scenes but hey I when just Franco does it for some reason I can sit back and watch it and just look at this beautiful scenery or whatever and like this soft focus I love it I love that stuff oh yeah he's incredible yeah so there is a twist yeah with this movie and I I'm happy to spoil it okay how do you feel this twist worked out like did you know something was going on beforehand did you twig yeah I just couldn't just figure out was it going to be her father or her lover that had been wronged by Udo so that that was the main thing I was wondering about I knew as I say I knew from the off that there was something up with Udo just knew it knew something was up with him and it was really obvious because like that's the character he was playing throughout the film like why is he having these crazed flashes which I think held up really well I really did like him the gloves is so creepy like yeah those I tell you what didn't hold up for me and I'm wondering if it's the same thing so I think they cut corners with the actual slashes and the cuts on the face and things like that it just looked like there was a squirty thing at the end of a knife sort of thing and that was especially the very the very first one I think I started laughing because it was just so like kind of half-assed like it barely is a cut it's like you know they might as well have a sharpie in their hand and just drew a red line like that that's how convincing it was and that's what it looked like almost yeah well that's the thing you put so much effort into getting a film together like the amount of people that are on set everything just has to come together to make this work and then you cut a corner like that it boggles the mind sometimes yeah yeah true you know it's weird where priorities lie with you especially when it's budget filmmaking like low budget films it gets me really riled up it really does can you recommend it today with regards to it just not being a box ticking exercise so like I need to see all the video nasties this is another one does this one actually pockets have head above like the stack of them I think so and like this is gonna sound kind of weird but like uh it's actually in the rape scene like when she fumbles that gun it like to me that was kind of empowering where you see that happen and you're like she's totally in control right now and she's about to fuck these guys up and that's exactly what happens and when it does I was just like hell yeah like get these dudes so yeah I think it's one of the like stood watch just because it's a good movie and not just like I want to watch every video nasties for sure because there are definitely somewhere when you're done with them you're just like all right I can tick that off and I'm never gonna watch this movie ever again probably whenever to think about it ever again I totally agree yeah I don't know why this one appealed to me so hard but a few days after I watched it I had to watch it again just to make sure that you know that I wasn't wrong about it because when I watch these things if I like it that hard so quickly I just think right something must be up with it I did it with them last house on the left never seen that before and then watch it for this and was blown away and I was like I need to watch it again just to be sure um so yeah this one maybe isn't as high up there as that for me but it's high up on this for sure let's have some left is I it's one of my all-time favorite West Craven movies like that one that that and hills have eyes it's like kind of a back and forth with those two people yes some people just have that talent like and when they're on fire at the beginning of their careers like bands like watch out yeah watch out yeah totally ah Bob again thank you so much for coming back on like it's been awesome always a pleasure anytime you if anyone can stand up and defend the sort of horrific scenes that I have had to see and other members of Parliament had to see I believe they're living in a different world to that world that I live in and the world that I believe the majority of people live in those are unacceptable I believe that research is taking place and it will show that these films not only affect young people but I believe they affect adults as well [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
