Stories Behind the Story with Better Reading
Stories Behind The Story: Rachel Treasure on The Transformative Power of Literature in Advocating for Change
Rachel Treasure talks to Cheryl about her advocacy for environmental stewardship, sustainability, and the transformative power of literature in advocating for change. Her latest novel, Milking Time, is out now.
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- Duration:
- 28m
- Broadcast on:
- 26 Jun 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
This is the Better Reading Podcast platform with stories behind the story, Jane's Be Better podcast, my book chat with Caroline Overington, and more. Looking for a particular podcast? Remember, you can always skip to it. Welcome to the Better Reading Podcast, stories behind the story brought to you by Belinda Audio. Listen to Belinda audio books, anywhere, everywhere. Hi, this is Cheryl Arkel from the Better Reading Podcast, stories behind the story. We talk to authors about how they came to tell us their story. Rachel Treasure, welcome back to Better Reading. Thank you, Cheryl. It's a joy to be here. Rachel is renowned for her novel set in rural Australia, often revolving around themes of farming, love and community. Rachel's latest book was her 2020 white horses, where she made it clear that although her novel contains romance, what she was really writing about and wanted to write about was regenerative agriculture and healing. On her website, she states two decades on mainstream media is at least seeing that the biggest romance I want people to have is with our land and with ourselves. I love that line. Then she refers to Kathy Let's term for older women's fiction. My latest novel, milking time, is I don't give a shit lit. And I'm saying what I need to say, it's set to challenge and surprise the reader, and hopefully alter the status quo of farming. But not just farming, just alter the status quo of storytelling for people like you and I think. Oh, thank you. Thank you for that introduction. Makes me sound very rebellious, which we can be, can't we, with the power of the pen? I was talking about you yesterday. I don't know if you saw it because we did. What are you reading? We do that on Facebook Live, two o'clock and we held your book up. We held up milking time. And I said Rachel, for me, has very, very early on, you were the first rural romance author that I knew. Well, it was the first time I'd heard of rural romance, I think. What was your first book? Oh, my first book was Jillaroo, and that came out in 2002. And that was inspired after I read Sarah Henderson's book, which was true life. And then Tony Parsons released the call of the high country, if people remember Tony Parsons. And that was when I went, oh, hang on, where are all the strong chicks that like youths and dogs? Because that's the women I know, right? So that's how Jillaroo came about. And it took the publishing industry by surprise. Indeed. I was surprised. I remember at the time thinking, I don't even know how to categorize this. It was different. Tell me how you went about writing that and how you got it published, your first book. Yes. Well, it was an overnight success that took me 10 years to do that. So I always knew that I was going to be a writer. And so when I left school, I went adventuring. So Jillarooing was my first job. And then I went to The Mainland, which is what we Tazzy, as people call it, The Mainland. And I studied agriculture there. And there was this absolute disconnect from the bush to the city. And there was an absence of women in the media, because I went on to study journalism at Bathurst, sitting next to the race cars at Mount Panorama, where they're warming up doing exams, which is a hilarious one for me. So I've studied. Then I joined every single writer's organization I could. I became a freelance journalist so that I could learn about having a deadline and using what's called bum glue, which is the glue you stick to your bottom to actually sit down and write. And then I was mentored by the Tasmanian Writers Center and put Jillaroo into Penguin's hands because they published Tony Parsons. And I'm giving little clues to people out there who are wanting to become authors. So it took me that long to get Jillaroo off the slash pile into the hands of a publisher. You know this. And I've talked about this a lot on this podcast is I think I've recorded I've got to count this one day. Maybe I'll do it this weekend. I think I've recorded over 400 podcasts, right? And I say to people, I learn something new in every single conversation. I really do. And do you know what I've just learnt? Bum glue. No, bum glue. I don't know that. No, I like that. That was told to me by a former journalist. It's the same as the cathelet phrase of I don't give a shit lip. Once you hit your 50s, you just as a woman, it's so freeing. Yeah. So isn't it interesting? We are all mentoring each other along the way. Yeah, honestly, I learned so much from speaking to people. But I mean, that's just who I am. I went, stood outside a picket and I won't go into details. But anyway, when I got there, this was a couple of Saturdays ago, I took a cinnamon tea cake just so that I could be accepted in the group. And all the group were probably a third of my age, right? And I thought, how do I do here? And they offered me a chair and I sat down. And do you know, I just thought, go podcast mode, just start asking questions. And do you know, I heard so many wonderful stories. Yes. I felt so energised when I left. But that's it. We storytellers, we listen, you know, that's how you gather story constantly learning, constantly asking questions. It's more about the listening and the silence, isn't it? And if you're feeling uncomfortable, which most of us do in social situations, unless we're masking it, it's the best thing to do is ask questions. Yeah, I love it. Now, I want to go back to your first book, Jillaroos. So, how did you pitch it to Penguin? Like, because again, it was one of its kind. I mean, how did you go about it? And how tenacious were you? Like, were you so confident with that book, that manuscript, that you're going to get it over the line? There was a naivety about me. It wasn't so much determination, but it was more annoyingness. And I knew that I had to tell the story of my women tribe, the women that were like me who were hands on, who were being pushed aside out of agricultural industries from increasingly masculinized systems. So, on one hand, I had all that training, but on the other hand, I had a face that it would reach the eyeballs of the top. And I did that with understanding the industry. I studied the industry. And the other part of it was my childhood. My grandmother, Joan Wise, was a published author. She wrote really strong fiction that was published in the 1950s bulletin magazine that really pushed the metal on women and where they stood in society, particularly Tasmanian women. So, I'd seen granny typing manuscripts with her sticky ear and a whiskey. And she'd clunk away on the old typewriter. And then I would see the stack of magic happening, which was the manuscript. So, back in the day, it was all sticky notes and pencils for me. Sticky notes weren't invented in grandson day, but I've come from that solid manuscript. And I think I even wrapped it up in bail twine and sent it, you know, like to give it that essence of country, a little mark. And in my cover letter, I made sure I said it's, yeah, potentially it's a little signature. I often package things in old bail twine, not dirty old bail twine, clean bail twine. But then the in my cover letter, I said it's, it's like Sarah Henderson and it's a splash of tiny Parsons. But here I am. I wrote it in my late 20s. I was a very young woman. So, it had a fresh voice, but I really had to cut out the swearing. There was a lot of swearing because a lot of swearing goes on in our culture. So, that was one element that they were dogmatic about changing, which was probably a good thing. I like a bit of a swear word myself. And so, you got it over the line, and that's kind of life-changing, isn't it? And I think for you, you haven't fallen, and it's not a trap because some authors love it. But you haven't gone specifically just one genre, this is me, and that's what it's going to be, right? You've really mixed it up, haven't you? Talk to me about that and how easy that is to get over the line when you're selling it to a publisher. Oh, well, it comes down to having main support around you. And my support is Margaret Connolly. She's my agent. And I know she had one of the people that sparked me to become a writer was seeing Les Murray when I was at high school. And I saw Les Murray out amazing poet speak. And when I learned she represented Les, I knew innately that that's where I needed to go. It's been very difficult staying true to my art. I have to say, I have sacrificed a lot in terms of finances because people think, "Oh, she's the best-selling author. She is rolling in it." But that's the opposite. It's the opposite to remain an author and a single mother and have a mortgage. You have to have so much faith within. But I also have to credit HarperCollins, my publisher, because they pivoted with me. I put out a book of words of wisdom for country gals. And I put out when 50 shades of gray hit the stands, I put out 50 bars of hay that allowed me to play and express about women's sexuality and what I call the brotherhood of kind men, who are men that want to treat women with reverence and respect. So I've been really fortunate. And I was fortunate enough to have the dog training skills, so a rural women's bursary to write a dog training book for working dogs, which is on my website. There was a drought, so I was able to publish a coloring input based on 50 bars of hay that I sold at an agricultural field day. And I got the men all shy and the women all excited. So I've been really fortunate in my career, but I've really stuck to my guns and made sacrifices to be a true artist and right from my soul calling, not what the earnings deem it to be. I just want to talk a little bit about, because you're so busy, you talk about the fact that you're a single mother and you're working on the land and doing everything else. Tell me what a normal writing day looks like for you. Is there a normal writing day? Or is it a dream writing day maybe? Well, I would if I could just get up, have coffee, do yoga, then sit down and write. And that's what I would do. And then I'd go for walks. And that's my dream writing day. Instead, for the past six years, I poured my energy into rehabilitating landscape, 100 acres that have been brutalised by modern systems that are farming. And I wanted to learn that I knew this stuff actually worked in holistic farm systems, but I wanted to experience it. So I would take my laptop, I take my laptop everywhere, and I might write with it on my lap, up against the steering wheel, while my son's playing football, or if I've got sheep that I graze on land on the east coast, I'll take it and I might sit on the back of the Ude if it's a nice day. Yesterday, I was sitting in a park in Hobart, just writing. And I have a notebook with me all the time. So it's slotted in everywhere. But I have to say, it's a common denominator that women who are artists struggle. There's no two ways about it. We struggle. We don't have people cooking our meals. We don't have people straightening our cushions. It's up to us. So, and I think, you know, reading "Wifed" and really brought that home to me, that Anna Funderbork, that really brought it home to me, that this has been going on for a long time, as well. Oh, an absolute long time. Yeah. I saw a movie lately and about two writers. Gosh, what was it? It's gone now. But, you know, she was very talented and successful, and he wasn't. And it was her fault. Oh, yes. I've seen that. I've seen the shots of... Yes. We'll think of it. We will. We'll think about it. We'll come back to it. But, yes, that really... It's worth it. And that's not just... It's not to sit here and win. I'm very much. If you don't like something in your life, you change it. You're responsible. You're the only one that's responsible. I don't like going to a supermarket and being subjected to food that doesn't have nourishment in it. So, I thought, "Right. Well, I will grow my own veggies. I will sell through Tasmanian produce collective, which is a volunteer online farmer's market. So, I can get those groceries that are nourishing for my family." And then, I don't like buying anonymous meat that I don't know hasn't had a good life. So, I thought, "Right. Well, I will sell my beef and lamb so that I can eat it, but I can share it through this online farmer's market." And that's what I'm doing with my storytelling. I'm wanting to share with people that, if you don't like something in the world, just self-care, a romance with yourself, and then go for it. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B. But with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. We all belong outside. We're drawn to nature, whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to, or the succulents that adorn our homes. Nature makes all of our lives well better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it. But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With all trails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently. With offline maps and on-trail navigation, download the free app today and make the most of your summer with all trails. So tell me what's milking time about? Milking time is my rural reclamation novel. I could fit so many hours in there. So it's about reclamation, rising regenerative agriculture. But essentially, it's about one of my, well, she is. She's my favorite character, Connie Mulligan. She's an Irish descendant. So she's fourth generation Tasmanian dairy farmer. But they still have very strong Irish connections, which is true of my own family, Scottish and Irish connections. And it's about her being at odds, not only with her family, because she's the only one. The family scrimped and saved to send it to boarding school and university. But that process has damaged her. But then she's returned home and she's at odds with what she's discovered. Her father's on a very driven supermarket timeline, where the land is degrading, the families disintegrating. And Connie is being sort of, she's a scapegoat for it all. So we meet Connie at this time in her life where she's seeing everything unraveling, including herself. But the story takes us to Ireland. And it takes us into her little town of Lilyburn as well, where she meets some amazingly wise and wonderful and whimsical and hilarious characters. And through these awakenings, particularly with one woman in Ireland, who shows her the ancient ways of women, she comes back to her home state of Tasmania, and causes the whole town of women to rise up. And of course, including the brotherhood of kind men, because this isn't a novel about separation. It's about inclusion. And it's not about hatred at all. No way, no, no way. Yeah, Connie happens upon a couple of lovely vegan boys. They run the Happy Chappy Cafe. And what I wanted to do with that was, because I'm a food producer and I've been in agriculture for such a long time, I wanted to show people who are really conscious about being friendly to animals that, and Connie does this throughout the book. So she shows these lovely boys that have the purest of intentions that there's more death on a commercial lettuce farm with chemicals and killing every single creature from a mouse to a microbe than there is on a regenerative cattle farm that is restoring ecology and the cows are cycling everything through something called the liquid carbon pathway, which is perfectly natural to this planet. So you've got Connie explaining that cow farts aren't actually bad. Management is bad. And that if you're a plants-only person, eat your plants from a, like a living soil that expresses love through the person that's grown that food. So it's such a, it's such a positive message in this novel. And I don't want to give too much of the plot away, but it's also got a lot of humor in it. And also, it's a great story. Because sometimes people think that, oh, well, I don't want to know about that. I don't really want to know about this. That's not what the book is about. The book is about, essentially, it's a page turner. And it's a good story. And it's about humans. And we love that. Thank you, Cheryl, for saying because it is, it is a page turner. I've had people say they couldn't put it down. They laughed, they cried, which is all the human emotions. That's right. But I have to credit Katherine Milne and my agent Margaret, because- I can't believe you've just mentioned Katherine, because I'm gonna- Oh, right. Do you know she won? She won last week at the obvious. We're gonna give it at least moment. Can we give it at least moment? Oh, Katherine, I'm getting goosebumps into years. Oh, so it's for nice. Yes. Yeah. Let's have a Katherine Milne lovefest. Can I have her? Only because this happened in this moment. I have watched her career, and I've just watched what she does, and I know her, and we will say hello to each other and have a chat. But at the obvious last week, which is the Australian Book Industry Awards now, she won publisher of the year, publisher, stroke editor. And I think I nearly burst into tears. Why? She's not my best friend. Do you know what I mean? But there was an emotion, which you've obviously got that relationship with her, you know, and you would have more of a relationship than I have. But I just felt on so many levels, she's bought us so many stories, and she is an enabler of great stories. So I came home, and I wrote a little something, and I thought, I'm gonna send her a bottle of champagne. That's what I'm gonna do. So I did, right? Because I love champagne. So I send her a bottle of champagne the next day, and you know, she sent me an email that was so beautiful and so beautifully written. I was so embarrassed about my original nose, you know, I won't be with just right so beautifully, but I think I'm going to print it and frame it. Oh, she on, and I know people are probably tuned in to hear about milking time, but she is, she and Margaret are the reason milking time is here, and it is told so strongly through story because Catherine kept having to rain me. And she said it's like, yeah, she loved it, but it was like a horse with too many saddlebags, and I had to take some of the saddlebags off and just get straight on that story trail. And in it, I'm just so glad you sent her a bottle of champagne. She deserved so much celebration from all of the readers listening in here, because she stays true to story where art determines the market, not market determines the art. And Catherine is on that line of holding fast for authors who are trying to tell the best story that grows people. And I really feel indebted to her and Margaret because throughout the writing of milking time, and I'll share this with readers because they will relate, I had been diagnosed with breast cancer in 2021. I went through chemotherapy, radiation. Oh, breathe. It was the most frightening but extraordinary experience. On one hand, there's this devastating diagnosis, but on the other hand, there's this opportunity for growth. And Catherine was so beautiful in the email exchange that we had throughout the course of that treatment, where I'd be typing milking time and halfway sliding off the couch, you know, and, you know, I'd be sending her apologies. You know, I'm writing this on drugs, Catherine, like legal drugs, obviously. And she was just so aware of my situation and gentle with me. And I just, yeah, I share your adoration for her and such a well-deserved award for me. It's amazing you brought that up today because it was only yesterday I got the email and I thought, right, I'm going to have that printed. I'm going to have that printed. She's a beautiful writer. And also what made me think when I was walking the park last night, she's an enabler of stories. I liked what he said. She is enabler of stories. And she's also a babe. She's beautiful. It's a babe. And I've never, I've not said this public to, led to her, but Connie Mulligan on the cover of milking time, Catherine's responsible for that whimsical, beautiful cover that practically photosynthesizes. I'm looking over here because she's Connie sitting right here. But Catherine actually looks like Connie Mulligan in the cover. So by the book and have a look. Definitely have a look. I'm just watching the time there. We've got a few more minutes. I want to talk about this. And it's not a formed thought, if you like. But I love Tasmania. And I try and go there at least once a year. And you know that because we've had dinner. And I've got some great friends down there who I adore. And I always have a beautiful time, right? But I feel, you'd be honest with me, it is a different culture, a different people. Yes, it is. Oh, it is. It is. And that's what milking time, you know, certainly Connie Mulligan and her friend, Slugs Meldrin, Slugs and Shirley, we, yeah, we are definitely different culture. And you might have lived here for 25, 30 years, but if you're not born east, you're a mainlander. Is that right? Oh, yeah. And there's also a lot of diversity in Tasmania, which people don't realise. Yeah, there is an accepted diversity. Yes. Yes. I grew up with the Greek and Italian community. So, you know, back in the day when they're bringing people out from those countries. And now we have people from Nigeria, who part of our friendship group and from China. So it's still very diverse. But it is anchored in landscape. And I think that's what it is. Yeah, it is. And it is landscape. Yeah. And it's also, what can I say? It's kind of living with the landscape and not trying to change the landscape. It is the landscape comes first in a way that I don't think it's like that in Sydney. The landscape. And but what I think is happening is there's so much change happening here. And milking time is a lot about that, that resistance to not change. We're saying by all means change, but change for the right reasons. There's so much corporate land by up here. There's so much pivot giant pivot irrigation going in that's decimating ecological system. So there's, we mark we marketed as come down for air and it's clean and green. That can be a fallacy in certain parts of Tasmania, particularly the agricultural sector. And that's why I wanted to paint this really colorful picture, not just of Tazzy, but you know, also of the culture. And when I went to Ireland, I looked at Ireland. Ireland would have been diversely rich hundreds of years ago. You fly to Northern Tasmania and we look just like Ireland. So we've made Tasmania look like Ireland in just around 200 years. But in doing that, we've destroyed so much of the natural system. So I think all science see, I can go on you and soil science and all of that. But I just think the best way to reach people is through a story like milking time. Exactly like stories. Yeah. Do you know, and we've got to answer. I think you can talk for hours. Listen, I read something yesterday, which just broke my heart. And I wasn't in the great places, you know, but I read something yesterday. It was on the ABC and it was something that the court just ruled, you might have seen this, the court just ruled that the environment minister doesn't have to consider the environment and the impact of climate change when they approve gas and coal projects. And I just saw, what's this world come to? What is the point of having an environment minister? Yeah. What kind of statement is that? Yeah, that's what Eckhart Tolle would say is intelligent stupidity, because, you know, but, and this is what one of my earlier works, plain skin cowgirls pointed to the fact we could be running so much of our systems on natural gas coming from human methane, which is, so I wrote a whole romance novel around human methane, which was kind of a little bit anti-romance for myself as an artist. I just wanted to escape that boy meets girl and everything's happily ever after because if we keep fracking and coal mining and exploiting the earth, we're all stuffed, right? There's not going to be a happy ever after that's no, no, like eat your heart out farmer wants the wife, but we've got to get the environment minister actually looking after the environment. And that's not happening yet. But if you read milking time, the women will receive the keys to the Ferrari, the electric Ferrari that will light us all up, that we rebel against this kind of nonsensical decision-making in government. It's crazy. But milking time's great. It really is a good story. It's a page turner, Rachel Treasure, always a pleasure. A joy to see you, Cheryl. Much love to you and the Veda Reading community. I'm so overwhelmed and overjoyed. I'm here. So thank you so, so much. If you'd like more information about Veda Reading, follow us on Facebook or visit betterreading.com.au. This podcast is proudly sponsored by Belinda Audio. Belinda audio books are available on CD and MP3 from online booksellers and book shops everywhere, or you can download from Audible, Google Play or the iBookstore. We've also created our own app called Borobox that's available from both the App Store and Google Play. All you need to do to get it working is to download the app, join your local public library and you'll gain access to the world's best collection of e-books and e-audio books available for you to loan on your phone or your personal device. 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