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Stories Behind The Story: Jo Peck on Embracing New Beginnings Later in Life.

Jo Peck talks to Cheryl about overcoming adversity, finding strength in vulnerability, and embracing new beginnings later in life. Her memoir, Suddenly Single at Sixty, is out now.

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Duration:: 31m
Broadcast on:: 23 Jun 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

This is the Better Reading Podcast platform with stories behind the story, Jane's Be Better podcast, my book chat with Caroline Overington, and more. Looking for a particular podcast? Remember, you can always skip to it. Welcome to the Better Reading Podcast, stories behind the story brought to you by Belinda Audio. Listen to Belinda audio books, anywhere, everywhere. Hi, this is Cheryl Arkel from the Better Reading Podcast, stories behind the story. We talked to authors about how they came to tell us their story. Jo Peck, welcome to Better Reading. Thank you, Cheryl. Now, the book is called Suddenly Single at 60. Jo's world turned upside down when her husband of 25 years left her for a much younger woman. At 60, Jo found herself grappling with the shock of betrayal, the collapse of a long-held retirement dream, and a profound identity crisis. Who was she without the label of being Rex's wife? Yet amidst the pain and the confusion, Jo's story takes a turn towards resilience and rediscovery. So this is her memoir, and Jo candidly shares her journey from despair to a vibrant new life. It's a story of celebration of the unexpected opportunities that come with being suddenly single at 60. Wow, there's a lot there, isn't there? Cheryl, I think that's about the best synopsis of that book I've ever heard. So thank you. That's all right, it's a pleasure. Well, I turned 60 this year, so there's a lot there. All right, talk to me about what happened and how you'd home to write this book. Okay, so I had just turned 60. I'd had a wonderful party, and also I had just celebrated my 25th wedding anniversary. So I had been with Rex for 30 years at this point, and he had already retired. I was on the verge of retiring. We were about to press the go button on our travel plans, which had been in place all our married life. We deliberately didn't have children because we wanted to be unencumbered just to do whatever we wanted to do in those years we had after work. So it came as a complete shock to me one day when we were sitting in our lounge room, and I said to Rex, "Look, we were going into town to buy a present for our godson." And I said, "Why don't we just maybe have a look at a new TV while we're in there?" And he just went berserk. He said, "We don't need a new TV and used a lot of expletives." And it was just so out of the blue and such a violent reaction to a really simple kind of suggestion that I said somehow, Rex, I don't think this is just about a TV. And I unknowingly said that. It just came out. And then he went very, very quiet, and I realized that I had actually said something that had struck a nerve. And in that moment, I sort of, I put two and two together, and I thought, "Ooh, something bad is going to happen." And then he just said, "I'm seeing someone else." And that was like, you might as well have told me he was going to the moon because I did not see that coming. No red flags. Look, no red flags that I was aware of at the time, Cheryl, but in the course of writing the book, of course, with the hindsight, yes, there were red flags. But in a marriage where you are used to making amends and tiptoeing around and always waiting for a better mood to occur, you don't pay much attention to those red flags. In fact, I had become very adept at just ignoring them. So yes, there were red flags, but I wasn't looking for them, and I had all my hopes pinned on the future, and he had a different future in mind. So it was absolutely devastating. It is such a total awful shock. A couple of things I want to say about this, that when someone dies, you're granted a grief, if you lie. Yes, yes. You know where I'm going with this? Yeah, I do exactly. And I refer to that in the book. That grief is, you can embrace that grief because and your family and your friends around you embrace that grief. That's right. And it's a legitimate grief. And it's an acceptable grief. And you're showered with sympathy and casseroles and cards. And you know, you are, you gnited in that grief. But when the person is taken away from you, but they're still alive, and they're actually starting a life with someone else who is in fact, you know, 30 years younger than you, the grief is, it's mixed with a lot of other emotions. And you know, the biggest one for me was anger. And also in a way, I think you don't get permission to grieve in the same way. You don't get that permission because if our relationships come and go, life comes and goes. Things change. But it's not that. I mean, you know, for you, particularly 25 years, I think there's something with grief. And I learned this when my mother died a couple of years ago now, that it's not just the sadness. And this all applied to you. It's not just the sadness of losing them. It's your whole life as you know it changes. That's exactly right. And you have to reposition everything that you thought was, you know, because how much of your life has been alive, you know, your life, can you actually rely on as for what it take it for what it was. It's incredibly discombobulating. And that factors into the grief. And yeah, you're not allowed to just be a grieving person, you are, you are trying to work out what's happened. One had brought you to this position, which you never ever anticipated being in. So one of the things that stood out for me at the time, and mine was a long, long time ago, but one of the things that stood out for me, and it's the same with grief and death as it is with separation and divorce, is that you have to now have a memory without that person. Because while you're in that immediate separation and grief, like, you know, the last time I went to Sydney, I was with Rex, you know, the last time. So it's forever present until you go to Sydney without him, if you like. Yes, that's so true. Yeah. All your memories are colored by, you know, the presence of that person. You know, that it just completely, for me, it ruined those memories. I've reached a point now where I can look back on those memories. And, you know, I've had a reckoning with Rex, and we've agreed that, you know, there were good times in our marriage, and we should acknowledge those and celebrate those. And I think we're probably both happier people now that we've moved through that period. But hell, it takes a long time. And it takes a long time to get to this point where there's acceptance and forgiveness. Yeah, no. Okay, tell me about some of the things you put in place during that time to help you get through it. Okay. I wasn't doing anything very consciously, Cheryl. It was all on remote control, I have to say. But in the beginning, I just packed up a few things, a small tote bag, and we stayed the very first night with my business partner, who was also a great friend, and who is also well versed in, you know, therapy and things going wrong. So she was a good person to be with on that night. The next day, you know, I had to cancel plans. We have plans to go that night to the Book of Mormon with our good friends. So I had to start ringing around to our friends, to my family, and say, look, Rex and I are splitting up. It's over. And that was, that was all on me too, which really pissed me off, because I thought, you know, he's done this. And yet I'm the one having to ring people to tell them what's happened. So after that, I moved in with some very good friends of ours who offered me a spare room and a bed and comfort and just were there for me at a time where I didn't know what I needed, but they were the perfect people. And they just, without any sort of restriction, took me into their home, let me stay, cooked for me, did my washing. And that was just a really, really amazing place to be, to start the healing, because I felt, I say in the book that I felt like I was still in a familiar landscape, but everything had still changed. And at that point, I also went back to therapy, and that really helped me process my grief and, and helped me decide what the next steps would be for me. So moving in with your dear friends, who sounds so lovely and generous, was that a financial decision or an emotional decision? It was an emotional decision. Yeah. I mean, I'm in a fortunate position, I realized, because I could have afforded to go and rent my own place. But I, I didn't want to live in our marriage home, definitely didn't want to be there. I didn't really want to be on my own. I needed the comfort of those people. I just needed people around me who could be there who I could talk to, or not talk to just be there for me. So yeah, it was definitely emotional. And they were, they were just so generous and willing to give me what I needed, that it was, it was wonderful. And it had no end date. I got to choose the end date, which was beautiful. Remarkably generous, isn't it? Yes, yes. Especially since that friendship was a couple friendship. So it was Rex and I and those two people. And we did everything together. We were a force and we went on holidays together, we celebrated our milestones together. And all of a sudden we were three, not four. So that also was a huge adjustment, a huge change. Tell me then, so how did you get back on track? Okay, so probably there were a few turning points. I started to go to yoga, or I didn't start to go to yoga, I had been going to yoga. And our yoga teacher was taking a trip, a retreat in Bali. And my friends who I were living with also went to the same class. And we all decided that we would go on that yoga retreat. Because I love travel, you know, I love going overseas to, you know, different cultures. And here was an opportunity to do that, but not do it alone. I did have to do it with, as you were saying before, the memory of how many times I had been there before with Rex. But it was a wonderful experience because that was such a great group of mainly women. And you know, after we'd done the yoga, we sat around and chatted and they were smart women. And they were just, I say in the book that I felt like I had found the sisterhood. And it was just wonderful, the nurturing and advice that they were able to give me really helped me sort of see that there would possibly be life beyond what I was going through. And then soon after that, it was Christmas. So I was about to face my first Christmas as a single. And that was enormously confronting as well. And I don't have a very big family. And they're scattered all over the place. But my brother, my closest brother lives in Western Australia. So I went over there and spent Christmas with my family, which was unusual because we had spent almost all our Christmases with Rex's family. So that was amazing, just to sort of rediscover my tribe, the people that I had come from. And to realise that I felt at home here, I belonged with these people. And without Rex there, I was more able to just be myself. See, I was going to get to that, you know, in terms of us chatting because when that immediate shock grief is over, right? And when time gives you new memories, you realise how strong you are. And what the world holds for you ahead. Like, I feel with me, I would never have achieved what I've achieved had I stayed in that marriage. Isn't it a revelation? It's a revelation. And don't you, do you look back, Cheryl, and think how compromised you were in that relationship? Isn't that marriage? Isn't that what marriage is? I don't know if all marriages are like that. I think yes, there's a certain amount of compromise in all marriages. But I made concessions in my marriage that were, I think beyond the realms of what would be accepted in, you know, most marriages. I look around me now because I study these things now. I look at my friends' partnerships and I think, yeah, they've got a much better dynamic than I had and their marriage or their relationship is much more equal and balanced. And, you know, I'm in a new relationship now and I can sort of, I celebrate every day because I just don't have to be on edge all the time. I don't have to be second-guessing what mood my partner will be in or what I will face. And I'm blind away by the kindness that comes with nice people. And there are, they're a great, I heard Ina Garden, you know, her, the American cook, the bear, not Contessa. Anyway, she's been in a long-term relationship. I think it's, they've been married like, you know, 40, 50 years. And Jeffrey's his name. And they often, even in her cooking in her work, Jeffrey is often in the background or walks in the door or if you're watching a video or whatever. And she speaks so beautifully of him. But she talked about, you know, their career, because they met when they were young and how each of them had to make different decisions. And it made me think about that. Like, you know, that is a real factor career, I think, for women. And they didn't have children either. So, it's interesting the choices you make and whether that works and what type of personalities people are. But it was interesting to hear her version of that. Because this, I mean, I see a lot of wonderful marriages, but I also see a lot of not so wonderful marriages. Yes. So why now? All partnerships, you know. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently, I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. 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I want to know then how you took to writing, because in your biography, I don't have what your career is. What is it what you were doing and why did you decide to write about it? Okay, so for most of my career for 30 years, I was a copywriter. Oh, that makes sense, yeah. So I have always loved writing and I ventured into teaching for a little while, but I just couldn't handle the class control and the discipline that came with that. So I'm just going to interject there, Joe, and so we've got a lot in common, because I ventured into teaching, and one of my supervisors told me this is many, many years ago. Cheryl, I don't think you like children. I was like, yeah, I think you might be right. No, that's possibly true for me too. I like them at arm's length. I like them at distance. Of course. I don't want to have to be with a 20, 20 adolescent, so I'm not very good at that. Well, I wanted to know why I couldn't go out and get a coffee. Yeah, and why did it suit my lifestyle? Yeah, no, not at all. Yeah, so when my class actually escaped out the windows one Friday afternoon, I thought, I think I have to reassess this career for this. And I went to a careers counselor, and she said to me, look, I think with your kind of background and the things you've told me, you'd be well suited to advertising, and she was right. And I applied for a training scheme, which was just exactly up my alley and was fortunate enough to get in. So from there, I found myself gravitating towards the creative side, and I started writing. And then I met a wonderful woman, and we started our own business. And that's another whole story, because we really started the first female-led advertising agency in Melbourne. Oh, I love it. Yeah, wow. Yeah, so we had 20 years as working girls, and we had a very successful and fun time of working and doing what we love and being able to make a living from it. So when that all stopped, that stopped because I was, as you know, I was ready to retire and travel the world with Rex. I didn't know what to do, and then fortunately for me, but not for most people, COVID hit, and I loved COVID. I got to sit upstairs in my room. I didn't have to go out. I didn't have to associate with anybody. I didn't have to have any obligations or bookings or, and really I was forced to do what I did, which was just sit down and turn my diary of my misery into something that could possibly be a self-help book for women who might be going through a similar thing. And of course, during that time, my whole demeanor changed. My mood changed. I started to heal. Life became sunnier, and my writing became sunnier. Yeah, because it's definitely not a doom and gloom book. No, not at all. It's really uplifting. Did you find writing challenging? Did you write your memoir in a linear way? Tell me how you approach it because copywriting is one thing, as we know, but writing, you know, 90,000 words or 80,000 words is totally different. Look, I know I should say yes to that, but I just didn't. I found it absorbing and just so such a wonderful outlet. You know, it was cathartic in the beginning and then it was just really rewarding and creative. And I would be sitting up at my desk and I'm a person who is really driven by food and meal times. And I'd be sitting there and I would write through lunch. That would be pretty sturdy. And I'd think, honey, how I haven't even had lunch. So, you know, I just, I found the writing just incredibly compelling. And it was also a revelation to me because I could do it. You know, people said to me, oh, you should write a book, you know, you're funny. And you know, you're a good writer. And I'd think, well, yeah, sure, but I haven't got a book in me. I don't know what I'd write about. But here it was presented to me. And I didn't write it in a linear fashion, but I did have to, once I hooked up with a mentor, she said, yeah, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of description of circumstance here, but there's not a lot of reflection. And I want you to go back. And for every action you talk about, I want you to reflect on that and tell us how that ill. And, you know, there was also a lot of in the early days in that even though it's early drafts, there was a lot of blame. I blamed my husband for what had happened to me and to us. And she said, look, you know, she gave me this wonderful piece of advice, which is people are not all good or all bad. They're just complex. So you have to try and get across that complexity. And, you know, I'm just a bit of a girly swat. And as soon as someone gives me a challenge like that, I just want to dig into it. I went back to the start and she said, this bit should come further up the front and you should tell us how that made you feel and how that impacted on some of those decisions you made down the track. And so I was daunted at first by the task, but once I got into it, I just relished that opportunity as well. And the writing got better and better. And I, you know, I was just surprising myself with how, you know, I would read something I, this might sound a bit sort of immodest, but I would read something that I had written and go, shit, I don't really write that. I think you could either you're allowed to do that because particularly with writing, it's so hard that when you hit a sentence or a paragraph where you like, you know, what you've written, I think you've got to reward yourself yourself on the back for that one. Has Rex read the book? I don't know. He knows of the book's existence because my publisher's text said, look, we don't want this to be a surprise to him. So you need to let him know that it's coming and you need to know before he sees it in a bookshop or before he sees any publicity. So good advice. I don't know if he's read it, Cheryl, but I was quite surprised that he sent me a text in the week when my book was launched. And he said, good luck for your launch on Friday night. And it was signed Rex with a couple of kisses. So I thought, oh, that's kind of a good sign. It's either him being passive aggressive or him just being nice. And I couldn't really tell. But, you know, he knows, I guess. Oh, he knows. He knows. That was his way of letting me know that he knows and that he knows that he's represented in that book as Rex. So we'll see. I don't know. Do you think finishing the book and having it published the memoir? Do you think that's an end of a part of your journey? Do you think that that's a marker for what's coming next? Yes, definitely. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it feels like I can draw a line under that relationship now. I have really dealt with it. I've analyzed it. I've picked it apart. I've actually spoken to him about it, which was a big thing. And yeah, I can move on from that now. And it's ignited my love of writing. But yeah, I won't be doing another book like that one. No. What will you be doing, do you think? I've got a few ideas bubbling away. One of the things I did while I was writing was I actually took a year off and I went traveling around Australia with my new partner in a very small camp event. Had you survived it? Yeah, we did. Well, I don't say there is something about if you can travel with someone. Yeah. I don't know what it is, but, you know, there's something lasting there. Yeah, chances are you can make a relationship work, especially like this camper van was a bed in the back of her Comby, basically. So there was not much space. And we just found we were amazing travel companions and we did a lot wanted to do all the same things. But what happened was we went to a lot of remote places like in our back, Northern Queensland and Northern Territory, WA. And I was amazed by these tiny little towns that were a speck on the map that existed with one pub and one service station. And yet you would go into that pub and the service station. It did be this sort of thriving community. Yeah, community always, almost exclusively run by women. I started to talk to those women. And I just thought to myself, we better the backbone of the outback. I don't know where the blokes are, that, you know, they might be out with the cattle or something, but they didn't have a huge presence in the commerce or the community. And these women were just, they were in these amazing remote places, but they were so strong and they were so vibrant. And my partner said to me, you should be writing down these conversations because they would make a great book. So we think we might do it again. And why not? For those conversations. We're out of time, but I just wanted to think, I'm a traveler, well, in a different way, but I've I get to the States every year. I've been going to Mexico. Oh, I think travelers are like, I feel as though, yes, for me, it's the shock of the new. I'd say this is the same for you. Also, we're so interested in people. We're almost nosy. Yes. Like I want to know everything when I'm traveling, right? But what I was going to get to just with that comment you made about women running everything. What are the things that I've noticed about, because I don't do it much here, but overseas, I stay in Airbnb is all a similar kind of arrangement. Usually, they are women of our age, running the business. It's their own home, and they've carved a business opportunity. And that's how they're living with their income. And almost always, they're beautiful people, because I always get chatting with them, but it's in a way that they've reached a sense of financial independence. They're alone for various reasons. I don't know why, but it's working for them. And I love that. I love to see that. So do I. And a huge fascination with dynamic and what drives people, and what brings people to certain places in their life. These women would have had a different life, presumably, before they divested a partner and started their own thing, I imagine. And I want to understand, do they feel like they're living their best lives now? I would say yes. I'm going to tell you something really funny, and we do have to go, but I I was in Carafa years ago with Michael Robos, and I think it was a long time ago. And this, we're in a cafe, right? And this girl brought our young girl, brought our coffees to us, and she had a very, very thick Irish accent. I thought she's a traveler, and this was remote, you know, right, really remote. And I'm so, I was so, you know, I am curious, and I always speak to people. And I said to her, wow, how did you end up here? You know, because it's such a long way to come from and up in Carafa in a cafe, you know, that's, you know, in the middle of nowhere. And she said, it was very different in the brochure. It was really funny. Anyway, Joe, we're out of time. People have to read the book. It's called suddenly single at 60. What a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much. I wish I would go on. Thanks for talking to me, Cheryl. If you'd like more information about better reading, follow us on Facebook or visit betterreading.com.au This podcast is proudly sponsored by Belinda Audio. Belinda audio books are available on CD and MP3 from online booksellers and book shops everywhere, or you can download from Audible, Google Play or the iBook store. We've also created our own app called Borobox that's available from both the App Store and Google Play. 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