These Football Times
The South America Files: Argentina 5s
(upbeat music) - Welcome to The Lob, your home of in-depth coverage and analysis by these football times, a movement of journalism you can trust. Each week, we endeavor to bring you the very best coverage of the game, exploring stories from the past and present, with analysis by expert guests from around the world. Find more about award-winning content online and in print. In the meantime, enjoy the podcast. - Hello, and welcome to another edition of The Lob podcast with these football times. My name is Stuart Horsfield, and I am delighted to introduce what I think is technically termed a pilot episode. So we've gone along with the South America Files, we've looked at clubs and we've looked at countries, we've looked at cities, and now we're gonna take it a little bit further, but we're not sure whether this is an idea that will fly, or whether it's an idea that will crash and burn after a single episode. So we're gonna give it a go anyway. I'm gonna hand you over to one of the co-hosts to explain the concept of this podcast. So first of all, Gary, welcome to the podcast. - Chesto, yeah, it's dipping our toe in some murky waters here. We're gonna talk about, we're gonna each select, an Argentine, a five-aside team. So it's a bit like Matt Bushmore, where you're gonna be saying who's best, if you don't mind, you're wrong, obviously, but you know. So yeah, we're gonna be a really back and say we go. So it'll be a bit of fun, a bit of knockabouts, and there'll still be some Hannah Babbara, Chuck Tinstoy there, I feel a shower. But yeah, it'll be a bit of fun, we'll say we go. - Excellent, so obviously Steven, well, welcome to the pilot episode. I don't know if you wanna talk us through your selection process or how you've come to your decisions. - I'll leave that for the listener to decide on how I've approached that, I think. What I do like about this is that it's all gonna be a little bit of a eight out of 10 cats, does Mount Rushmore meets South America Files. (laughing) - Excellent, I'm doing that. I am massively looking forward to. - Yay. - And finally, obviously, this wouldn't be a South America related episode without the man who has the most knowledge about the continent, and will probably select the single most obscure players that you've ever heard of as part of this five aside team. So, Dr. Pete, welcome. - Thank you very much, looking forward to this one. You know, I've done back in the old editions, a little graphical, looked for everyone who was a legend. You know, I think I've kind of gone along with the scheme of finding the people who most represent heroes of our comic book footballing heroes. But that's a kind of reference I'm gonna leave till later on the episode. But yeah, looking forward to this, as much massively as Stevie is. - Excellent, okay then, well, we'll make a start then. So just to make things clear before we start, we've, or you were asked to select one goalkeeper, one defender, a midfielder, a fantasy star, and a striker. Now, there was a lot, before we even put this two together, there was a lot of infighting in the band, while we decided what class does, who played in what positions, which will become clearer as we go along. So it didn't really get off to the best of stats in rehearsals, but the good news is we have all got, well, you've all got choices. I will make the final decisions. Unlike the Mount Rushmore, where it's normally a three minute pledge, it's only a two minute pledge this time. So your words need to be well chosen and they need to be concise. So without further ado, Gary, I'm gonna start with you. It's your series. You're the lead singer of this band. You're the front man that you're the face, the face of this audio podcast. Are you ready to start with your goalkeeper? Shall I go? Here we go. Okay, so five or so girls are small. So to play the goalkeeper, the statue seems to feel the goal as an advantage. And if that goalkeeper is also from the very top echelon of Shot Stoppers, you've got yourself the ideal combination. In my choice, for the last line of defense, standing well over six feet tall, and arguably the best goalkeeper in the history of the Argentine game, I have that very player. It is Robert Pateau. Aband Zieri, his nickname Pateau means duck. But that hardly means my selection is crackers, as I shall explain. As you saw, many times in footballs, football was, Aband Zieri came from a town in stock of his grandfather, emigrated to South America from Italy, and he graduated through a huge successful club career to feature in the national team. Moving from local club Rosario Central, Aband Zieri joined Boca Juniors in 1996, where, across the next decade, he replied just short of 241 games for the club, before a three-year span in spade with Hatafei. Eventually though, as a true Boca legend, must, he would return to La Bomba Nera for a swan some two seasons, and another 37 games to his Boca Town court. Savy one of Argentina's top clubs is recommendation enough of an extended standing ability. But just for that, he's Savy. It's worth looking at the Triget Robert Roffe as he achieved with Boca. Four Apatura and a couple of Cossera from the division titles, across that initial 10-year period between the sticks at La Bomba Nera is impressive enough. But his continent's success with the club shines even brighter. Three-couple Libertadorist triumphs in just four years with successes in 2000, 2001 and 2003 speak volumes of the club's domination of South American club football. The first success came more than two decades after Boca had been crowned as champions of South America. By the time I third triumphed, I wanted the area to become so important to the team that he captained them to success over Santos in the final and lifted the trophy. It was truly in safe hands. Right in the same year, Boca four other up. - Time of your Gary, that's it. I've got to cut you off there Gary. - Two minutes. - That's your two minutes. - Oh wow, oh wow. Can't play the game. - Yeah, that's your two minutes. - Yeah. - No. (laughs) No, the Joker card was offered at the start of the episode. And you didn't want to go on the Joker role. - What you need is to do is a gun. - Yeah. - Just clang it. - Wow. I think Gary, you took about 15 seconds trying to save his name each time he said it. (laughs) - Okay, so it's good Gary, don't get me wrong. You've made it all right. - The boots on the other, the boots on the other Schumacher now, isn't it? You know, he knows how, now he knows how hard it is to get you, get you, get you. - That's been 20 seconds. - He's going to be in there. - That's right, Steven. I was really hoping, no. I was really hoping Gary would go over time. That's brilliant. That's changing right on. (laughs) Okay, we'll move swiftly on then. So, Steven, still two minutes for your counter argument, but predominantly it's your choice for the goalkeeper of this five aside team. The baller fell off. The only man it could be. Argentina's first World Cup winning goalkeeper, Satorio Elegant played in three World Cups, should have been four. It's still a mystery why he didn't take part in '86, having guided them through qualification. But he is just the man. The three clean sheets he kept, never conceded any more than one goal in any one given game in the 1978 World Cup. He was just a magnificent individual between the state. And that's the thing about him. He was an individual goalkeepers. You know, he can be a little bit meat and potato pie. No, it takes a lot to be an impressive individual as a goalkeeper. Takes a special individual. And this was a whole ball though, Phil. You know, just magical thing goal. He kept clean sheets. He made the important saves. He was erratic. He would throw in the mistakes. He was absolutely everything that he needed to be. To be Argentina's first World Cup winning goalkeeper. And within that is ball of choice. It's the Adidas Tango Resignum. You know, what else can you need? You know, he has all the elegance and he has the greatest football in the world, as well as the World Cup trophy. - Wow, that was impressive. Gary, you can borrow 30 seconds from Stephen if you want. - Yeah, Stephen, excellent. - Why do I get to throw another 30 seconds onto my fantasy system? - No, trust me, I cannot do the maths for that. If I'm trying to start, there's not a chance. Okay, great, great, great argument, Stephen. I love the fact that you've thrown in the Adidas Tango football in there. That holds great sway with me. Not that I'm shallow, but that does hold great sway with me. Okay, now. - Just wait till I get to kind of strike as well, God. - Oh, don't worry about that, I'll give you it already. And then finally, now then, we come to you Pete. Now, you've got two minutes, be gentle, 'cause it might take a little bit of context for us, but you now have two minutes to come up with your justification for your five-aside choice goalkeeper. Are you ready? - I am indeed. - Okay, go. - Okay, so there are only two famous Amadeus or Amadeusism in the world. One is Mozart and the other one is the name of the greatest goalkeeper in South America, the 20th century, Amadeus Carito. That's how he was remembered by the South American football organizations of the continent, not just Argentina. And that beats the likes of the y'all who Steve has already had to go out and Missouri, Cavitch and all the other goalkeepers of South America. El Grafico, the great kind of South American publication for sports, described him as a timeless master. We're talking about Amadeus Carito, a man who was such a great goalkeeper that the Argentinian Senate proclaimed that his birthday, the 12th of June, should be celebrated as the day of the goalkeeper. Steve has mentioned Fiolbing and Natty Dressa. I mean, Carito was as well. We have on his 87th birthday, he was welcome back to River Plates Monomental Stadium, accompanied by all the goalkeepers of the club all wearing his trademark grayish blue top and Natty cap that he used to wear back in the 1940s and 1950s when he was at the height of his powers. Again, this is a man that would have won the World Cup had they had the World Cup in this particular period, the kind of the great lost generation of Argentinians who either couldn't play or weren't allowed to play by Peron. Carito was a pioneer. He was one of the first people to wear gloves and gold. He had an innovative style that became copied worldwide by all goalkeepers. He was one of the first goalkeepers to leave his area. So we wouldn't have Iguita, Chilivert, in Alexson, all these goalkeepers that were great with their feet. If it wasn't for Amadeel Carito. He once memorably dropped a shot and went around Boca Jr. Ford's Josepapino Bolello in the classical. So that's the kind of guy we're talking about. There's some amazing old footage of him. There's one incredible save where he makes a brilliant instinctive reaction save and then dives at the on rushing forwards feet to save that. Titles in 45, 47, 52, 53, 55, 56, 57 and the Copa de Mación is in 1964. - Wow, Pete, that was excellent. And you just luckily didn't win much more than that 'cause otherwise you wouldn't have fitted it in if you'd won more than that. Okay, guys, a great, a great start. Pete, like I say, I knew you wouldn't disappoint us. In the words of Gary, while I have some deliberation time, Gary, I'm gonna come to you first. Fiol or Carito for you, where would you have gone? - Well, that's going crazy though. I mean, Fiol could go up here, but given what Pete said, especially, I didn't look at this guy and I can sit again with him, but I thought, I thought my guy was better. And if I got to the end of my script, I think I've approved it, but I'm gonna go with Pete's. Yeah. - Okay, for you, Steven, would you have gone with, I won't get Gary to say, we hadn't got enough time. I won't dance the airy, or Carito. - Carito, we're out of shadow, we like the esoteric ones that come from kind of like absolutely nowhere as far as kind of like us hedon's are concerned. (laughing) - And so over to you, Pete, obviously, if you had to come up to the modern day, like Michael J. Fox and come back to the future, would you have gone with Gary's unpronounceable choice, Pato, or would you have gone with Fiol? - I think Fiol is the one that's talked about in Argentina as the successor to Carito. And he's probably one of only three other goalkeepers that's talked about in the same breadth as Carito. So Fiol would be the other one. I mean, the other one we didn't talk about was Julio Kotsi, he was a kind of, it's quite three years later, Carito was known as the goalkeeper of the century. So he was another one that we could have thought about, but Fiol was certainly right up there in the Argentinian memory as a great goalkeeper. - Okay, I've had my deliberate Gary, this isn't easy, isn't it? I've had my deliberations, I can't believe you didn't, I can't believe you didn't pick the goalkeeper of the century, he sounds like he might have been a really good choice to pick. But having said that, I am very much swayed by the fact of a goalkeeper who can create their own day of the goalkeeper awarded by the Senate. So I am gonna go with Carito and I'm gonna say what edged it for me, Pete, is that you managed to get all the honours in before the time limit. Gary's right, Gary could well have been chosen, but he didn't play the Joker. He didn't like the idea of the Joker card and it backfired straight away. - Well, still the brightest player in the history. - Can we, so is our five-side choice goal? - Yeah, you could have opened with that as well, Gary, that would have been good too. - It's difficult to get this side of the mic and it might. - It is, it is. So now we've got our goalkeeper, the position that nobody wants to play in front of the side and that's defence. So we'll move on to the next position. Stephen, we're gonna let you go first this time. So you now have two minutes to make your impassioned plate, you might over need two minutes to make your impassioned plate for your defender. You ready? - Absolutely. - Go. - The one and only Daniel Passarella. Now you might see a bit of a theme coming here, but all I can say is that this was one hard individual that also married elegance with the ball at his feet, empirical in the air, wonderful on the ground. Once upon a time he was the highest goal scoring defender in the history of football, escalated only by Ronald Coombe, the man that lifted the World Cup for the very first time for Argentina, the man that used to go toe to toe in terms of slagging off with Diego Maradona himself, the only man that actually unnerved Diego Maradona to the point that he drove him out of the side basically for the 1986 World Cup. It was a toss of the coin basically, as far as Maradona was concerned, you either sideline Passarella or you go to '86 without me. Now this was the man with all the credentials, absolutely, streaming with honors both in South America and in Serie A. He did six years in Serie A, mixing it with the very, very best of the Italian football, the mind English football. 143 goals in 479 league appearances across River Plate, Fiorentina, Inter and River Plate again. He scored 22 times in 70 for Argentina over a 10 year period. He was the defender's defender, the sweeper's sweeper. He was just, he was beauty and the beast. This is the benchmark for all South Americans, central defenders and sweepers. No, he is the man that is completely on top of the whole continent. There is only one choice in this and it is Daniel Passarella. I'll throw in an... - No, you've not got Tanya. - I'm old, I'm old 30 seconds, I'm old 30 seconds. - No, there is no, you're on one minute 58 points. - The Adidas Sango Rosario. - Okay, I'll let you throw that in. Okay, great choice, like that, well done. Now Pete, we're gonna come to you next. Now, I can only assume that this guy has nothing to do with the 1966 Sango that rocked UK politics, right? - No, not this one, no. Wasn't it involved? - Excellent, okay. Okay, then, are you ready? - I am, yes. - Okay, go. - Okay, so the guy I'm picking is a guy called Roberta Performa, who is known as the Field Marshal. So we're talking about someone right at the top of the military rankings in terms of football. He's the guy that showed Passarella actually how to play the game. Passarella was the successor to Performa. Well, I've never been doing it for 10 years before Passarella even turned up. For the Argentinian press, he is the guy that plays with Passarella in centre defence and the best Argentinian team of all time. However, according to Colleine, one of the greatest newspapers in Argentina, he was the best central defender of all time. So Roberta Performa is the kind of guy you want in fireside football, incredibly adept at playing the ball outs, great with both feet, great in the air, able to pass the ball out, bring it out. He's the kind of archetype for what Argentinian centre backs should be. And more importantly, much like Passarella, he was also extremely adept at booting people up in the air if he really needed to. He was part of the famous wrestling side that actually did that to Celtic and Intercontinental Cup finals, three games of it. And he was that good that Billy McNeil even forgave him and went up to him at the end of the game, shook his hand, exchanged jerseys after being, after Celtic and racking and basically beating each other up for three for three different games. As a player, he was one part of the great Echebo de Jose, the team of Juan Jose Pisulti that won the league for rassing in '61 and '67. He went to Clorzera when the Meenerau League and was runner-up in the Brazil Arou. And then came back to River Plate, went to the league for 18 years and won it his first time of asking. This is a guy that was so good that Maradona made up a story about playing it so in beating up in the air about him. He wanted to be kicked up in the air by the best Argentinian centre back of all time, but they never played, he just made it up. But he also made up on a rate of him as better than in Passarella. And that for one of the great charismatic storytellers of our time is probably all we need to know. - Oh, nice, one minute 59.34 just for the record. That's impressive, Pete. Okay, good, I like that. That's one of the four bearer of Daniel Passarella, interest in choice. Gary, we'll come to you now. And I remember it, it's two minutes. Go. - You have to remember that our task is to let players of excellent five-as-side not simply go for the best players, okay? So a cash-in point to the defender with no ball above hand height, there's no point in picking the centre half. You need a fallback, there's good in one-on-one situations. So the player I picked is the greatest ever Argentinian fallback, Silvio Marcellini. Marcellini played for Waka between 1960 and 1972. They signed him from his local club and he excelled in a game against the years or the other. He managed to debut in 1960, Raccoon had become a record in the team, played every game his first season there. The fun term, he was again a replaceable fixture in the team and he goes going to a CV. It's going twice that season. And still the determination that's allowed to the team to drop back into win three out of four, Premier getting his young title, 62, 64, and 65. Impressive enough, but had further weight in the four-year wide buck and won one single title in 18 years. Put the icing on a cake, Marcellini was also a contributor, Bockers acute two, nothing else title, 69 and 70. And then now he failed to lift the copper Olympic stories in '63, losing a dip, pelting-spied Santos because Pellet was not marked by Marcellini. Unsurprisingly, Marcellini also featured heavily for the Argentine National team, played 28 times, excelled in 62 and 66 World Cups. And the line of competition, he was a lot of surprise, he was named by FIFA as the best left back in the tournament. A superb accolade. And Bob Schott interviewed in 2007 for the 442 magazine, said he was the best player and defender in that tournament. It wasn't that fast, but his position was so good, he didn't need to be. And then he was so good, he had such control of the ball, he gave him time and space to play the ball. And if I decide to see, indeed, he defended me both solid, but also be able to play with the ball at his feet, as chances that suggest Marcellini had that ability. Here's my guy. - Excellent, Gary, you've created 15 seconds of credit there. I like what you've done there, Gary. I'm not gonna lie, I like what you've done, where you've gone five-a-side specific, that is very much worthy of mentions. - This is the key, we've got five seconds. - I will take that in due consideration. You've gone game-specific, and I've got a lot of time for that. Anyway, before we do that, just to help me out, as per usual, Stephen, the Scandalous MP Roberto Puffumo, or Marcellini of Gary's, which would you go with? - I think it's got to be the Scandal of Puffumo. I'm sorry, Gary, but Pete's propensity to come up with just kind of like the greatest stories of, yeah. It's always got to be a bit of scandal that's gonna drill me there. - And for you, Pete, if you weren't going with your guy, your Mr. Puffumo, would you go with Passarella, or would you go with Marcellini? - Well, I mean, in a previous episode on these football times podcast, for the Mount Rushmore of Best World Cup players from '70s onwards, I actually picked Daniel Passarella for my best ever defender. So, Pat Formore, as I kind of did a little bit overlap over that period, so Passarella was the other choice. And Passarella was a great, so having kind of extolled his virtues on a previous podcast, I think Passarella would be the number two choice to bet Formore for me. - And for you, Gary, if we can't pick your five or so specific best left back that's ever been created on planet Earth, would you go with Passarella or the man who was, who essentially was the shoulders that Passarella was. - Yeah, well, I guess, in a center-off, you're playing that in Florida side, too, in any way, but, you know, I think that was, it's got to be Passarella, I mean, really. - I get what you're saying. Now, this is quite tricky because I thought I would be able to get this straight away, but your position specific, Gary, really has, it's thrown me a little bit, I'm not gonna lie. However, however, the caveat comes there with, I cannot begin to imagine the pressure of playing in a home world cup underneath that regime and the pressure of lead in that team, and the way in which he did it, and the unflinching way in which he did it, and the unflinching way in which he delivered, not only for his team, but also for his entire nation. So, for that, and I appreciate it, it's not specific, but I also understand that really no five-aside striker is gonna wanna go anywhere near Passarella. So, it's kind of, he doesn't really need to defend one-on-one. I feel like the fear is there. So, I'm gonna go with Steven's choice of Passarella, as the defender. Well done, Steven. Excellent. And he scores goals as well. - It is the right choice. - Thank you, I thought you would agree. Okay, now we- - Backman, backman and us as always. - Always. Well, now we move on to the midfielder. So, we're now, and again, it's important that we mention about Gary's ride, this five-aside specific nurse. So, this is the player who hopefully is gonna keep things ticking over on the five-aside pitch, on the five-aside court for you. Pete, I'm gonna start with you first, okay? Are you ready? 'Cause I'm about to learn as well, all at the same time. - Okay. So, I am going for El Maestro, Adolfo Pedernera, the guy that was the key fulcrum, the conductor of two of the greatest football teams of the 20th century. Firstly, the great machin-a-side of River Play, and secondly, the blue ballet of Mionarios of Columbia. There are very few plays that can be legends for two teams, with Pedernera managed it. We're talking about a guy who was elected as 12th best South American football over the 20th century in the year 2000, and 4'14 magazine, who know nothing about South American football before Pedera. Also, Pete Pedernera amongst the 100 greatest footballers of all time. We're talking about a guy who was so good and so famous, and so known in a continent, before TV, before Facebook, before Twitter, before YouTube, that when he went to Columbia in 1949, this created a national sensation. It was such a big deal. It basically broke up a civil war, and people were desperate to know. When he arrived at the airport, a small boy bit him to see if he was actually real. Factory workshops had to stop their kind of workers talking about him. He made his transfer fee, his kind of signing on fee back for the club, without even playing a game. He just turned up, the stadium filled up, and they made a profit straight away. So Pedernera is a great, he won five league titles in Argentine in '37, '41, '42, and '45. One, the El Dorado League in Columbia in '49, '51, '52, and '53. Another man whose international career was severely disrupted by the Second World War, and Peron's boycott of international games. But he still found time to win the 1940, won 1945 in 1946 Copper Americas, and elected as the best player in the 1946 version. Technically astute, intelligent, aware, a great strategist who went on to become a renowned manager in his own right. He was a great lover of the tango as well, so he really emphasised all about what is great and cultural about Argentina, both on the pitch, and in the dance halls in the evening as well. - Time. - Adultera and Pedernera. Okay, that was it, I like that, that was good, that I would like to say that got better and better as it went along, as it finished with the tango, which is how everyone should be judged on their selections to whether or not they can perform the Argentine tango. Gary, I think we'll come to you next for your choice. From your midfielder, are you ready? - Okay, moving further forward, the key to success is flexibility. Ability play a different role to be outstanding each of them, fluid his key. So one next week's next will be Gody Bada. My midfielder is Felix Listal. Normally a left winger, although the description was only true at kickoff, he was famous with the La Bacchina team of River Plates. They said the best thing to come to small packages before Christmas Day in 1922, they made a list out, and he wiped out that passage, and he proved himself to be able to play to best ever Christmas visit. He joined the club at 17, and a couple years later, he kind of fixed with the team, completing the famous quintet of forwards. The rest of his history, he joined the previous Tibert River, the club dominated all the first of the 1940s with eight national titles, and the revolution of rotational players were from compared to that total football match. Sure, but with that low sense of gravity, central to a patient's ribbon, the list out was deceptively strong, and a key member of the River as well on the machine. Debbie 1942, the fact he was retained by the quintet of 15 seasons, there's plenty of evidence of his approach to the team, and he scored 101 goals in 365 games. Such success, however, brought five on the international stage as well. Good, it was the fatal list out on his McKenna team to colleagues to be severely restricted in the global game because of World War II. But he was still a parent who now times allowed the set. Across semi-appearance, we had ten goals. The stats were in every one of the triumphs of the comprehensive America titles of '45, '46, '47, as I just hinted during one of the best periods in this nice football, and four of his goals came in the '47 tournament when he met in both the Argentine victories. It's one of Paraguar and third-place Uruguay, not in the score of goals, but score of important goals as well. But what he'd mentioned, a low center of gravity, gifted to smaller but highly talented players and had sharp turns and intricate dribbles. This confirms a five-aside pitch is important, magnifying the importance of such skills, throwing less tells of ability, flexibility, to interchange positions, and it should be clear, is the ideal midfield player for Argentina's five-aside team. Wow, one minute 58.35. You're really warming to the task now, Gary. This is excellent. We'll move on then. Now, so, Stephen, no pressure. Two excellent, excellent choices from Argentine football history. So, it's over to you for your choice. Are you ready? Go. OK, a departure from the late '70s and early '80s for this one. Arestas Cabata, the magician, a wonderful footballer, a literate drunk. He would take to the pitch, pissed, and still run rings around his opposition. He was a rampant drinker. He lived his final days under a bar. He died at the age of 55. He was married four times. He would turn around and say that the one thing that would never desert him was the ball itself, often branded the Argentinean Grincha. There are enough people who have seen him play that will state that Grincha is the Brazilian version of Cabata, having seen footage of him. He's a player that transcends eras. The style of play and a movement that you could easily see from Louis Diaz on a Saturday afternoon at Anfield. He looks like a modern player. He is an absolutely stunning piece of action. Noted in Chilean journalist as an animated cartoon player. The ball would do his bidding. He was just an absolute magician. Chris and Al Lanca, he was just an absolute wonderful player. You know, he would take to the pitch for games with bunches of flowers and he would take them and give them to women in the crowd. Alotharia, a drunk, totally illiterate. He was just everything that you will possibly want from a 1950s, 1960s, South American football. And Magician for Rassen Club, 12 million pesos. I'm going to play by Jocre, 12 million pesos. The Jocas out. The Jocas. Gary won't allowed it. And that's time. Oh, I was so warm into that player. I feel like I've played against him a couple of times at soccer sensations in home. OK, this is, again, this is a great one, and this is why I was so happy that I was allowed to lead on this particular series, for which I am really grateful, Gary. While I deliberate, Pete, I'll come to you first. Would you go with the traditional British Fiverside player, or would you go with the technically ideal physical specimen of Gary's Fiverside player? I mean, this is tough because, you know, lifestyle played with Pedernera and the great machina team that I was talking about. He was part of it, you know, along with another player that might be coming on later on. But, you know, I mean, Corbatte is one of those lost, you know, mystery geniuses. I think it might be Corbatte and to remember, but I think he used to carry a newspaper round. It's just to prove that he could read, but he couldn't, but it was a way of trying to do so. There's a lovely little documentary for Spanish watches about Corbatte where you can see some of the footage that Stevie's talking about. I'm actually going to go for a little stole, though, because he was so consistent over such period of time, and he was a genius as well. He wasn't just, you know, an efficient, technically great player. He was also part of the genius that the machina was as well. So I'm going to go for a little style. OK. Gary, for you, where would your choice go if your player wasn't up for selection? Would you go with Corbatte, or would you go with Pedernera? I think Pete just took the word there, exactly what I was going to say. You know, both very worth in totally different ways, but I think the machina is such an iconic team, in the Argentine history. The player from there must be the choice. So, you know, I'd have to go with the Pedernera. OK. And for you, Stephen, now, clearly, you've got no time for either of Pete or Gary's choices here, based on your particular choice. Clearly, you've got to be able to play a certain way. I'd just pick Corbatte. I'm not having what's either of them, so. Yeah, your team really would be interested. I feel like nobody would want to play against your private side team. We're only just about halfway through it. Well, no one would want to play against them, but they really loved to go to the bar after the match with it. Yeah. All things duly considered. And I would have, I would very much have liked you to have got to the end of your Steven, because it was incredibly entertaining. But I think Gary, you've done a really good job, Gary, with your playing of your case for Loustau, which obviously has been backed up by Pete, but I took no notice of that because Pete don't know what he's on about. So, I'm going to, I'm going to put your player, Gary. Back in my, I'm going to pick your player. I think you're right. I think his history and the way he fits into the team and that it is a private side team, that's where that's where we're going. Well done, Gary. Congratulations. Right, guys, we're going to, we're going to come to a tricky one. Now, like I say, we nearly fell out before we even started. The tour was nearly off and the band nearly never got back together over this as to what constitutes who plays in what position. And the best bit was when I sent the email out to you, just asking for clarification, all three of you sent me the three different possible combinations, which I knew you would do based on all your things that had come to me. So you all kind of fell out without even realizing you'd fallen out with each other, which was, which was quite entertaining for me. So we're going to go to the position of the fantasy star. Now, there's going to be a disclaimer with this that yes, I have to make the choice, but it is really difficult. So, Gary, you're going to kick us off first. Two minutes, because there's no Joker to be played, two minutes for your fan to feast in the five-a-side team. You ready? Go. Leona Messick, I'm late. I'm really set up seven balance doors. Two best FIFA men players, best men's player. Six European golden shoes. Two FIFA World Cup Golden Boats. Two FIFA World Cup Golden Boats. FIFA under 20 World Cup Golden Boats. FIFA under 20 World Cup Golden Boats. Three you have been player of the year. Six you have for Champions League top scorers. Two America, a Copper America best player. A Copper America top goalscorer. Six the League of best player awards. Eight Pashishi trophies in the League and 15 Argentine Football League awards. Messick is the player of the most titles and an official award, both individual, collective and entire history of professional football. He's also the all-time scorer for Barcelona and the Argentine national team, beating Maradona, by the way. He's the top in the League, the Spanish Super Cup. European Super Cup and he's the top non-European player in goals in the way for Champions League. It might be impressive all, but remember this as well. He's playing for such a great team and to excel for a great team, his goal is better than excepting for a poor team. 778 games for Barcelona, 672 goals, it carries the name of La Paulga. The fleet is fleet bites and bites hard. Numbers all weren't good of course, but there's so much more to Lea Messick than cold hard statistics. Let's listen to Maradona said. I have seen the player who would inherit my place in the Argentine Football team and his name is Messick. Messick is genius and he can become an even better player than me. His potential is limitless and I think he's got everything thanks to become Argentina's greatest ever player. Did you do that? Well, close the gap on Maradona's titles in terms of football, win the World Cup and the Copper America recently. So he might have done that. It's always a toss-up between Maradona and Messick, but I think with Messick with international trophies recently and his club success massively had shines Maradona. Messick is my fantastic staff. Nice work Gary, one minute 50 degree. That is impressive. Okay, so I was thinking about having a little gap in between this discussion, but I'm not. So, Stephen, your choice plays for the Fantasista position in this Viva side team. My choice is Diego Maradona. The greatest footballer ever to play, let alone the greatest Fantasista, omitted from the 1978 World Cups, what? Sent off an 82 winner, puppeteer, conductor, director in '86, World Cup winning captain, 1990, dragged the team, the worst World Cup final team to a World Cup final, and '94 where it all went wrong. He offers absolutely everything, whereas Lionel Messi's undeniable brilliance has come on a highly tilted playing field. Diego Maradona achieved all his greatness in the backwaters on a highly tilted playing field, but he had to run up, not run down. Diego Maradona touched, he was touched of gold. Absolutely everything he touched. King Midas in a football shirt, that was the Cox-Bortif shirt as well. The kind of, the adaptation of that, Adidas Tanger. He just collided everywhere, nappily, everything he did in nappily. He turned them into a joke from a joke to champions twice, took the UEFA Cup, did the impossible with no wind assistance. Diego Maradona flew his own case, whereas Lionel Messi was handed a jetpack. I rest my case. He's that good with 30 seconds to spare, or you've decided to gloss over the slightly darker side of Diego Maradona. No, what I was going to throw in top was that even if you just want to hand it to him for that kick, that flying kick in the Coppodell Ray final, riot against the Athletic Club. He's going to get you that for that alone, for that alone. He deserves the entire, just, yeah, just the entire law. In fact, you could name this fibre side team, just have Maradona. You think you're still with it? I'm still with it. Okay, we'll come to you, Pete, because the guys obviously have picked a couple of average choices, so the door's open for you. You should be able to walk through this. It is, can you find it left easier? Yeah, and your player can just walk straight into this team. Are you ready? Absolutely. Okay, go. So, I mean, people talk about Messi and Maradona being, well, the two greatest Argentinian players of all time. This is basically the little 15-year-olds kind of football choice. They don't know history, they don't know what they're talking about. Because the guy that created Argentinian football is Jose Manuel Charo Moreno. He is the guy that, if he hadn't existed, Maradona and Messi would never have been a thing. We're talking about the guy who revolutionized the game in Argentina and South America. He invented the idea of the total footballer. Please, go, everyone who's listening to this, go and look at videos. You have the rafish, the rafish hair, the stylish moustache, the Bohemian, elegantly dribbling and, you know, performing skills that Messi and Maradona couldn't even dream of because they can only play on lovely, luscious, new camp, you know, lost out Miami pitches where everything is curated with an inch of a life and there's a guy running the line, defending them as a bodyguard. Charo Moreno played on mud heaps. He played on terrible pitches and he made it look like he was playing on glass. The man was a genius. He is not only remembered as probably the best ever player in the Argentinian leagues, but the best player in the Mexican league, the best player in the Chilean league, the best player in the Columbia league. He was the first guy to win four different titles in four different countries. No one else did it until the likes of Ibrahim Evitch and Jerry's Jarrasic, apparently, you know, won everything that was in, you know, with the machina side. And he was the genius behind the machina side. We've talked about Lestal, we've talked about Pedernera, but the Moreno is the guy that made every Argentinian dream of how to play football. And he was the nightmare for every defender and goalkeeper that had to face him. Elegant, technical, brilliant, creative, worked hard. Messian Maradona aren't going to put a shift in five side football, Moreno did. And not only that, he was the guy that made going to the Tango an absolute art form. He knew more tangos than the Tango singers themselves. Charo Moreno, the architect, the perfect Argentinian footballer, the perfect fantasy star, he put fantasy into the actual position's name. That was one minute 59.48. Well, I'm not going to lie, Pete. Pete's time in his magnificent. It really is. It's not an initiative. I've got to say, I've got to say, I don't know. He was one of those kids that could do the Casio watch thing tonight. Nail it, bang on 10 seconds, not 10.01 or 9.98, bang on 10 seconds. We all did that in maths. Pete, you've had an absolute blinder there. I honestly thought you stood no champ. OK, now the good thing is, first of all, I can get the opinions of you guys first, because obviously that's the way it works. I can see why Gary threw that into the Mount Rushmore series. I can see why he's in there. So, Gary, I'll come to you first. If not for Lionel Messi, would it be Moreno or would it be Maradona? There's lots to say, Maradona's Fiverr. But I think, you know, as I said, the key thing in the five-size flexibility, Moreno had that in spades. I love my kind of team. I mean, it's close, it's close. I want to put Maradona, but I think Pete's convinced me. I'll go with Moreno, just because of his five-size. He did a good job, did Pete. Stephen, for you, obviously, if it wasn't for Maradona and the team all by himself, would it be Moreno or Messi? Oh, you've all picked people with M's. What great alliteration, well done, guys. Sorry, just noticed that. Maradona, for me as well. Lionel Messi, for everything brilliant that he's done, my go-to image of him is sat crumpled on the Anfield turf as Andy Bennett sometimes. [LAUGHTER] After that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, for now. I can, you know, bolt to his World Cup winners, an old man, being carried by the rest of his teammates. Though, Messi, for me, will always be that, that, that, that, that destroyed individual and feel that nice. You've actually managed to bring a South America Podwild's new series episode that is about an Argentinian five-size. [INTERPOSING VOICES] Andy Robertson, so. I'll find a way is it that Andy, Andy Robertson is going to be my new kind of like, go-to, the, the Hannah Baburka cartoons for this. I'll find it Andy Robertson in for every single episode, don't you? Oh, that's excellent, because we were only supposed to be talking about Matthew Moreno, and with some of Andy Robertson's popped his little head in there and got a mention. Pete, I'm going to you next, because I might need your help. Maradona or Messi? I think if we're going five-a-side for our ideal five-a-side, and knowing the kind of five-a-side style of play you get, particularly if we're playing in Argentina on the Pothreros on the, on the, on the dusty kind of wastes of kind of urban Buenos Aires, then the guy you want who's going to be riding tackles and booted up near and cheating when you have to, to get away with it is probably Maradona. Absolutely. Okay. The dark arts. It's what this team needs. Are you think Passarella, you already, you extolled his bench because of the dark arts? Okay, so in terms of, in terms of context, I think he's just sort of set the scene there of where this five-a-side team is playing, it's quite funny because I had this five-a-side team playing just this side of Branzone, which is quite a rougher state in whole, where they were playing on 3G pitch, where people were shouting because they'd gone 30 seconds over in the game, but it was a nice playing surface. Think, and I can't believe I'm going to do this, but I think because Passarella is in this side, and that Argentinian nationalism that reference to the country is there, which is what I would provisionally have put Maradona in for because he would have exemplified this team. I think because it's five-a-side, because I think he can literally do anything, I genuinely do, I do think he can do anything, and I've not seen Marano playing, I understand that, I can only go with what I know and what you guys have said, I think I'm going to have to go with Lionel Messi. That's so major. For this particular occasion, for this, Diego Maradona would have no problems with a Tuesday night in whole. Yeah, to be fair, he wouldn't. Why Lionel Messi is the never, ever, ever, for once a whole on a Tuesday night, for five-a-side. To be fair, Andy Robertson, yeah, he's a part product of whole. He was there just north of Branzo on a Tuesday night, he did the business. Exactly, exactly. And he's going to get bullied all night long. He's going to get his bus for a second. I'm not going to catch you. Good choice, Doug. Good choice, buddy. He won't be getting the bus. There's nobody gets the bus, I genuinely think. Well, I imagine having a Mount Rushmore without a Diego Maradona. What kind of a joke is there? Well, it's a five-a-side, I've got to go with the selection of five-a-side selection. And the other thing is, I don't think I could rely on Maradona to actually be there. I think that's my problem as well. He might not make every Tuesday. He doesn't actually, just the idea of him will win games. Okay, we'll come to something slightly less controversial, but perhaps for the younger listeners, a little bit more, well, maybe a little bit more relevant, but probably not, to be fair. So we're going to come to the strikers. So the people are going to get the goals. Bear in mind, we have got Passerella and Lionel Messi in there already. But this is the person who's going to score your goals. So, Pete, I think we'll start with you on this one, please. I would like you to make the case for your striker, please. And this does come with a caveat that he is actually my favourite number nine of all time. I'm just going out there. Well, I'm going to tell you why, because she was right already. I mean, this guy I've actually seen play. So this isn't just from books and grainy videos of black and white. We're talking about Gabrielle Batistuta. And again, the man who could score every type of goal, but particularly the absolute thunder bastard. He is the man that personified Hotshot Hamish. You know, if we kind of tried to make Hotshot Hamish, it is Gabrielle Batistuta. You know, not only for the, you know, a kind of psychotic vengeance, you know, a kind of desire to destroy goalkeepers and nets. But also the elegance, the finesse, the ability to score goals from anywhere within about, you know, kind of 30 to 40 metres of the goal. And he's got hair. You know, if we're going to pick an Argentinian team, we need flowing locks. We need long, stylish. I should have been a rock star in a kind of, you know, I should be in the guitarist in a rock band kind of thing, you know, playing some ax chops as well. That's the kind of player we need to get the style, the idea of Argentinianness. And again, he is going to score all the goals you want. He did them in a proper league, you know, he did it in Serie A when it was good, when people, you know, knew how to defend, not like nowadays. And it was basically him or Ronaldo, the Brazilian Ronaldo. They were the two guys that knew how to do it. Ronaldo, you could kind of kick his knees through a bit and he'd get out of the game, you know, get injured for a few years. Batistuta, you couldn't do that. He would score goal after goal. He played for a slightly rubbish team that we all loved because they had a great kit. And he played with the Ricoster as well. It was magnificent as well. You know, we're talking on the goal front as, you know, the highest score for Argentina before Messi came along and scored loads of easy goals and penalties against slightly second-class opposition. Yeah, he did it in the World Cup as well. He scored 10 goals in very tournament. And he's only striker to score two hat tricks in two different World Cups. We all love Gabriel Batistuta. We spent our Sundays watching him on, on Italian football. It's Gabriel Batistuta. Hotshot Hamish with machine gun celebration. What a man, what a legend. One minute 58.89. You have absolutely nailed this, Pete. You are literally the Cassio. You are the Cassio kid without a shadow of a doubt. Excellent argument. Okay, we'll come to you next Gary for your choice of your striker, please. Are you ready? Yep. Go, my friend. It's three words. It's Mike Dropp. It's Alfredo De Stefano. Case closed. Job done. Okay, I'll carry on. 72 games, 53 goals for River. Milly Laeros. 294 games, 267 goals. Went to La Liga, Real Madrid. Eight La Liga titles. Five successive European Cup titles. And a competition to have on all this, Mo as well, to just to cap you out. And Intercontinental Cup as well. 49 goals in 58 matches was the whole. So I'm highest tally for anybody in European Cup competitions. It's called five consecutive. It's called five consecutive European Cup finals for Real Madrid in 56 and 60, including the Hatred in the last one. There's a word that Ballon d'Or for the European Cup will be in 57-59. It's currently the sixth highest scorer in the history of Spain's top division. And Real Madrid's third highest goal score of all time is Madrid's leading goal score in our classical games. You may want to be convinced, but I ain't done yet. I want your breath. November 2003, celebrated. To celebrate UEFA's Jubilee, we selected the golden player of Spain by the role of Spanish football federation as the most stunning player of the last 50 years. Fourth in a vote of all the Ballon d'Or winners just to the best player ever. 2004 was named by Pele in the FIFA 100 list of the world's greatest leading players. 2009, de Stefano was honored by both UEFA and Real Madrid with a special presence award issued by FIFA at the ceremony Madrid, where a statue was also unveiled. And he used to kill the quilt. Pele said, people argue between Pele and Maradona, who was the best. They're all wrong. De Stefano is the best, much more complete. He kind of is happy with that. And I'm happy with that. Dr. Mike, walk away, case closed. That's why you're the lead singer of this fan theory. Excellent. You've clawed back all the time that you went over on your first one. Brilliant by you. OK, the final choice then for this Fiverside team, the last potential player who could actually get a starting place in Branson next Tuesday is over to you, Stephen. And who are you picking? I am picking the indelible Mario campus. The right man in the wrong place so often in his career, runners up with in the premiere title with Rosario, didn't quite work out for him in terms of winning trophies. He won a cupwinners cup and a cup of del Rey in his time with Valencia. Scored hat for the goals, won a title with River Plate. He went to the 74 World Cup finals and failed to score the goal. Went to 82 and failed to score the goal. 78, I'm doing him a disservice. I'm going to build into something here. Stay with him. But 78, he was the man that powered them to that first World Cup final success. Failed score in the opening group stages. But as soon as he was back in Rosario, he was off and away. Two goals against Poland, two goals against Peru, two in the final against the Netherlands, swept Argentina into the World Cup success, took the golden boot, won all sorts of individual honors throughout the year of 1978. South American player of the year, the Ballandor was one. He was just magnificent for those eight days or so. All that ticker tape, the ticker tape shoe. Think of the ticker tape. I am thinking of the ticker tape. I just tell you. Think of the ticker tape. The Adidas tango, nestling in the back of the net. This is the man who kind of broke the heart of Bob Renton Ring. Let's forgive him for that and applaud him for being the man that brought Argentina, that first World Cup, that her as well. Absolutely fantastic. I know Gary and Peter aren't kind of like purveyors of long hair. But me and you are happy. We know what it sounds like when doves cry or when doves grow their hair. Last 10 seconds, anything to add? The most subtle or at the elegant moments in football history. Mario campus. All right, that last bit is debatable, granted, but yeah, you know where I'm coming from, Steve. I know exactly where you're coming from and you've absolutely played the emotion card. Maybe not the joke, but the emotion card, absolutely brilliantly. I think, how do you not upset that you've based your entire choice on eight days? Your argument wouldn't have been even stronger, but eight days to get in this fight. Ticker tape. The ticker tape. Okay, Gary, no, Pete will come to you first. Mario Kempez, oh, oh, I forgot who Gary said. It wasn't Gary. What fell out of it? Can you forget? I'll tell you later, just a corner. He was the greatest real player of all time for Argentina. He was no good. Kempez never worked out on his country. How many national teams did the special play for? Was it 2025, 26? I just, I mean, come, he wasn't even Argentinean. He wasn't even Argentinean. No, he wasn't. He wasn't as much career in a day. How far football will travel? Pete, Di Stefano or Mario Kempez? Yeah, you know, I did pick, Di Stefano as my first choice and was rudely buffered away. I mean, having reflected, I mean, I wouldn't have picked Di Stefano, but I was watching all the videos and I was preparing for this, and he had to acknowledge that Di Stefano is a great player. But the Blake was bald. The Blake went bald. He was the blonde arrow, but that was only eventually because the floodlights were shining off his bald head. If we're wanting a proper Argentinian football, they've got to have hair. So it's basically got to be Kempez who did it for eight games, or Batista who had lovely hair all the time. Even when Pasarilla made him cut it a bit, he didn't cut it very short, did he? Exactly. Imagine having that length of her in that military junta at that World Cup. I mean, one thing Pasarilla captain in that side, but good God, Kempez carry in that her into that World Cup with that military dictatorship. Come on. Gary, for you, you've got to pick two of the most sensational hair-wearing Argentine strikers that have ever grished this planet. And probably wouldn't look out of place, as Steven said, in this rock band that we put together around himself. Hannah Berbera Claxon. It's very, very Herberbunch, also. I've got Herberbunch. Who would you pick, Gary? Well, it's difficult to pick between two hairdos, whose combined totals didn't put on top. But Di Stefano wouldn't have a single season. Batista would have this sort of aura about him, and we score, I mean, Kempez is OK. He was OK, he's OK. But I think there's a quality compared to a lot on Batista. I'll go with Batista. But I mean, fresh air is second and third, and it may be on Stefano. It's Stefano. Kempez, Kempez was never relegated. Well done. And for you, Steven. We're better than you, Robert. So, can't pick Mario Kempez, even because I'm not asking you to. Yeah. And you can't pick Andy Robertson for this position. So, it needs to be either Di Stefano or Gabriel Batista, the man with the name of an angel. I've agreed with Pete too much on these ones. So, I'm going to go for Di Stefano, despite everything that I've said there. But, you know, even though the fact that Di Stefano is absolutely, he's no podcast. OK. If I didn't put a week on, if I didn't put a week on, he'd have won this. Yeah, to be fair, it'd have been Captain and everything. And the manager. OK, I've given this a lot of thought. And fortunately, I'll run for you, if you Gary. It's worked quite well in that. We've had to take into account this five-a-thide context that these players sit in. So, that's actually formulated, my opinion, to fibre-size incredibly difficult to score in. And I think you need someone who is "I'll have a hot shot at Hamish." You will take out probably the defender and the goalkeeper in order to get it in the back of the net. And for that reason, I think Gabriel Batistuta would be the perfect striker. And any reference to "Hot Shot Hamish" and "Kevin Mighty Mouse" would be well worth the of selection in this. In this. So, I'm going to go with Batistuta as the striker. That's the correct decision. Fell asleep. Thank you. Thank you. I know, Stephen, I knew you wouldn't agree. However, the caveat with that does come though, Stephen, is that your man is the captain of this five-a-side team. He's the one who's going to lead us. Well, lead this team into battle in random next Tuesday. No, not Maradonic. We couldn't rely on him turning up. He's the manager. Yeah, he organizes the fixtures. This is the passing afterwards. So, we've gone with a goalkeeper of Carito, the defence of Pasarella, the midfield of Laocere, Messi and Batistuta. It's not a bad start. It's a decent five-a-side team that would do quite well in soccer sensations next Tuesday. Matt Maradon is going to wipe the floor on his own with that. Well, when he turns up for the Bolivian side, because he's got some sort of great grand underneath. He's got DeStefano. He's just kind of like, I'll pick up. I'll decide to play for kind, like Colombia today. I was going to say, man, that was my little daughter. Maradon has got a lot of connections. Oh, Spain. Yeah, I'll have a game for you. Yeah, yeah, no problem. It's been an interesting opening leg of the tour, guys. I'm not going to lie. It's gone pretty much exactly as I expected. No real surprises in terms of how it went or how popular my choices were, but I think it's a good start. I think the tone is well and truly set. The bar is incredibly low, so that's good for us for next week. And I think we're off to a good start. Gary, is it how you imagined it would go? Sorry. Oh, yeah, sorry, I missed that. I was reading some, sorry. Yeah, I mean, no, it's a much more fun than I thought it was going to be. I think it was going to be fun. You won't remember to run this podcast, Gary. He wasn't even even taking any notes of you, still. Just for the questions. We can still reinstate. We can still bring Maradon into this. I think Maradon is in. I think Maradon is in. I was listening to you. Maradon Steves has now argued that Andy Robertson could replace any of those players, including the Flamingo, OK, for as well. Well, that goes without saying. Oh, Gary, I can't believe you switched that one. Sorry, mate. No, don't worry about it. No problem. It's OK. In terms of, in terms of episode one, over the number to get in a bit bored at the end, is it how you thought it would go? No, it's more fun. I thought it was going to be great fun, but even more fun than that. And some great selections. And, you know, I wanted to dip into it with more selections. I've got to do the guys into some extent, especially Pete, come back into history. You got to pick Le Marque and the players out of this margin-to-hand side and some great players. I mean, all through, you know, the goalkeeper defenders to the strike as some fantastic players. And, you know, it's great. It's great. It's good fun, isn't it? Yeah, even better when Pally don't get picked for Brazil by me as well. Then it will really even things out a little bit. Steven, excellent by you. Excellent agitating as per usual. Obviously, if Andy Robertson still listening, he'll be pleased that he got a mention in the podcast, I'm sure. And rightly so. Right. So he's, he, no. Yeah. But that night in whole, he's got to be the waiting for Messi. It's got to be, who were the ice skaters? Was it Tanya Hardinger? Well, Nancy Kerrigan. Yeah. There's got to be a bit of that going on. Well, there's going to be a bit of that in the car park. Don't you worry about that. Mess to Messi with a guppy knee. Pete, enjoyed it? Yeah, lots of fun. Yeah. It was great down back into the kind of the old clips. I think one of the, one of the best bits about this is trying to find old clips of the, of some of the players we're talking about. And if you do, if you've been inspired by listening to some of these players, you know, do, we're going to look at this great photos. It's an amazing bit. I didn't even talk about, about Pedoneira where he, he looks like he's going to do a Rabona. You know, it looks like he's going to do that. The last moment, he kind of does this kind of 180 flick and then flicks it with his standing foot, go and complete the other direction again. You know, we talk about, you know, these tricks of only being done by Messi and Ronaldo and all these local players. There are guys back in the past that actually started it. They told them how to do it. This cameras weren't always there. But, and again, this is why Moreno should have been picked. Because it's, it all starts in the past. It's fast in the past. So it, it, this podcast started with an argument. It ends with an argument. I don't like it. Um, this has got potential. At some point, you've got to let it go. Um, Pete just a final thought about whatever it was four years ago and Gary asked you to do one episode of the political podcast. Did, did you, did you ever envisage being on the road with us for the best part of two years falling out on a weekly basis? No, I mean, it's given us something to do, hasn't it? So, you know, I mean, if it wasn't for this, I'd be like setting up some lecture about the Chicano movement, all kind of, you know, multi-century literature and Bolivia. So this is a little bit more fun than, you know, some of the lecture preparation that I'm otherwise doing on a Tuesday evening. There you go, see. And for those of you who are still listening, obviously those YouTube clips of Andy Robertson are available on Mo's. Go find them. They're just changing. Okay, and we'll, we'll close the podcast here because Stephen's got to go out now because that's the way you roll. Um, but please join us again for more arguments and the odd discussion about decent five and five players and people from the past of South America who couldn't cut it in whole at soccer sensations on a Tuesday night. Thanks for listening to Gary's gone. Gary's gone. He went a couple of minutes ago. Steve's off out and Pete's preparing a lecture. So please join us again next time on the podcast with these football times. Thank you and goodbye. Many thanks for joining us today on Melop at these football times production. 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