Take Ten for Talmud
1658BabaBasra24- Tree or Chaff near city, cities of Eretz Yisroel in our time
very good morning on behalf of teach 613 we welcome you to take 10 for Talmud Baba Sir Khaf Dalud and Baba Sir 24 be pagination is 48 starting from the fourth line Massnissen the new Mishnah. Mahikkh inus so elan mino ear asim bechamishamah we have to distance a tree from the outside of the city by 25 Amah says rashi. Leficia no la ear it is nice for the city Kishayesh mare kav panoi lefanerah when there is an empty area in front of it it gives noiseness to the city looks more prestigious and the tree has to be distanced and therefore we enter into this topic of nisceshranim different cases where I'm doing what I'm allowed to do as far as it's my property but it's infringing on somebody and over here even if he's entitled to plant this tree but in this particular location it's infringing on the noi ha'ir the niceness of the city and it's going to have to be removed. Skip a line in the Mishnah im ha'ir kudmah if the city was there first so that he planted it improperly again even though he may own that land or it's open land and he's entitled to acquire it but the city was there first so he's not allowed to use that property to put a tree up. Code says the anonosa daman they cut it down and they do not reimburse him because he came there in prohibition then elan koden and if the tree came first and then they made the city trees can last a very long time. Code says the no saying daman they're entitled to cut it down because now there's a city here but they have to give reimbursement for his loss they have to buy the tree from him. Suffolk what happens if we can't tell which came first is it the tree that came first or the city that came first and now someone's saying we want to do cities and aridists are all the way they're supposed to be done properly so then the ruling is going to be Suffolk's echo them the Suffolk's echo them codes it's for in and of syndomat you could knock the tree down because that's clear either way you were allowed to knock it down even if the tree came first and you don't have to pay because he would have to prove that the tree was there first in which case we would have to pay. Just to gain perspective over here I'd like to drop down to the Mishnah on the bottom of the page about 20 lines up we'll do one line here or two half lines actually. We distance a granary from the city 50 Amah that's a required distance and Rashi explains mipne ha motz because of the chaf we know this from hilchashab is there's a concept of throwing up the grain as it's mixed with its very light exterior and the wind blows that exterior away an example of this for those who are not familiar is the way peanuts grow there's an outer shell that's hard and inside there's the kernel the peanut which people will eat and there's a chaf a soft papery-like cover that's over the kernel and that chaf gets blown away and that's mazak binayor ear that ruins the air quality in a city and therefore you have to be distant from the city chamisham-amah 50-amah in to hilim just as a point of reference dove it makes reference and says that Rishoyam should blow away like the chaf okay let's go back to explaining our Mishnah of elun three lines up from the wide emo ear-cut makotz it's the anonosindomin if the city was first you cut down the tree and you don't give money my shnagabe boar why is it different then two neighbors one of them has a pit for holding water the tiktani coats it's the nosindomin he can cut down the other person's tree but he has to pay him well my shnagabe tiktani coats it's the anonosindomin and over here he cuts it down and the city cuts it down and does not give money and the gamara gives an answer which we'll see in a moment is a misplaced answer amarafkana they quote rafkana kedaira de veishut vilochamimavalokarira a pat of partners is never hot and never cold because too many cooks spoil the broth they're each giving a little but not enough to keep it going the way it should and that's the fear on a communal level that something will fall through the cracks and will not get attended to and rafkana says that's the reason that they're not paying when they remove the tree because if we had to wait for payment it might never get done and the gamara says that's a misplaced answer rafkana's principle may be true but it doesn't apply to this part of the mishna or mikushya what's the question to begin with actually you don't pay him even afterwards domashein ezeikadirabim mezeikadiyokit there's a difference between a damage that's being done to the public and a damage that's being done to the private individual in the individual's case he's going to have to pay for the removal of the tree in the case of the public if the tree came after the city the tree gets removed and it's not just that we don't want to put payment as a precondition even after it's removed you don't have to pay because hezeikadirabim damage to the public is different rashi explains a little bit more over here what's the concern regarding trees near a city rashi the last small lines nimpsaha elan homemade if the city people are delinquent the tree will remain they are ear maguna and the city is degraded by the proximity of this tree the ain zhutif aris aris arisrael and this is not the glory of arisrael not supposed to be any trees there as you approach the city but again the gumara concluded that as there is no payment for the removal of this tree that came after the city it really has to do with hezeikadirabim a damage that's being done to the public and there's no payment and the gumara continues and explains wierraf canos ruling really applies his expression really applies ela itma de rafcanos saifa itma rafcanos was was applied to the end of the michina emo elan kodem codes it's been no sindam if the tree came first then indeed when you cut it down you have to pay for lamaluhu hovelibirasha demeva other echotes why can't the owner of the tree argue when you pay me i will cut it down in other words i don't want to have to go collecting money later pay me first ama rafcanos on that rafcanos said kidehiridabeshut vilohamima ovelo carira when it's a public thing it doesn't get hard enough it doesn't get cold enough and if we allow the delay until the money is collected that tree may never get knocked down and the owner of the tree is going to be very happy because that's what he wants he wants to keep his tree and therefore the ruling is you're allowed to knock it down and then we owe the money whatever time it'll take to put that money together and at least here the owner of the tree will be pressuring you knock down my tree you got to pay me finally the gamara says sapphig zakodam the zakodam if it's unclear which one came first you knock it down because that's the law either way but you don't have to pay because he can't prove it that he was there first mai shinami boar why is it different than a pit the amrit that we say regarding the tree that's infringing low yachts you can't cut it down and the answer is hossum devade lav le make it's koi over there if the tree for sure came first it's not supposed to be cut down spake anami lo amritan lei coats you can't force him to cut it down hacha but over here devade even if the tree came first le make it's koi it's for sure meant to be cut down it's just a question if you get paid spake anami amritan lei coats by the doubtful case we tell him cut it because that's the law the emission demay and when it comes to the money amritan lei isiraya ischkol we tell him bring a proof and you'll be able to take the money and that's why the ruling is as such now in shoshan orich it's interesting that the case of ilan is not brought in kufnun hey huf base which is what the enmish but near mitzvah sends us to the ramal gives us a case of goren you'll remember we mentioned the badam mishna for a moment the case of the granary and the ramal indeed paskins according to the guidelines that we just learned by ilan emagorin kodamlair messalco ovenayoir noznumlaadamov if the granary was there first then you remove him and they pay him for it just like by ilan and suffake if it's not sure so you remove him and you don't have to pay because he can't prove that he was there first but there is no mention of the ilan the tree case and the reason for that would appear to be because in the base yo safe in the tour the ruling that's brought is as we mentioned harakazu anon elo beretistroil this only applies in eretistroil and the bedeka bayes note their rights even in eretistroil aina noig bismanza even eretistroil it doesn't apply in our time shihibiyad akum ba'avo no seinu because it's in the hands of the non-juez in our sins we have not yet gotten restoration he writes of eretistroil in the base amiktosh and we should be zocha to it but it's not ours yet and therefore this noihai ir the beauty of the city is not applicable bismanza in our time even in eretistroil it may perhaps be similar to the concept that we have in hilchaspes haqinesis or aqayim kufnun alif seif yud that there's a rule in alo bahim asabim if grass starts growing in the place that a shul was destroyed in tall shimosam you cut the grass uma niqimosam bin komam of shimawghasnefesh but you leave the grass there to rot so that people should feel the pain it shouldn't become normal okay it's a mode luan it should look objectionable kedeshi yiruham people should see it visai ruham and they should be aroused for yushtad to live no some to desire to rebuild it over here we see you don't have a den noihai ir if it's in the hands of the aqum and perhaps part of it is vishtad to live no some person should desire that it should be on the way to the gu'ula whatever it is that we're able to do basically chuva and tfilah one would of course wonder if these halakhas of noihaiir would indeed be applicable nowadays that there is a presence of kal yusrael and perhaps at the very least even if we can't say noihaiir until mashiach and basam iktash perhaps but definitely by extrapolation some of these concepts should apply yeshikouah thank you for joining