The following episode may contain spoilers for the game Frosthaven. Welcome, welcome to episode 73 of a Master's Degree in Rolling Terribly. I'm your host Eddie, joining me, this week, a man who's graced me with these physical presence. So it feels good to once again, look come in the eyes, read his soft lips. Although I don't need to because I can kind of hear what he's saying, so I'll read them anyway. Yeah, say hi guys. Hi guys, awkward hi guys, like it's been we're going for 10 seconds, you've made it awkward already. Look, Gaz's told me that he was gonna come over and we could do a live recording, I keep saying live recording, it's not live. It is, we're live, we're in the moment live, they don't hear live, no, well they can hear us recording it live, you know, we should one day just press like on OBS or something like that, the live button and I don't know, like on the YouTube account, I haven't looked into it yet but we could just sit here and record it live to an audience of two and a half and but then the actual, but then the actual, well the video will stay on YouTube as a regular kind of episode without any form of editing whatsoever, which sounds easier to be honest. That's way easier, right? Sounds like something I would really, really like. Yeah, yeah, so Gaz came over and we can do this in person, which is pretty cool, again and yeah. Yeah, let's go, I love it, I'm loving the energy, it's... Energy's good. Energy's good. Where's your luck energy? So, on I guess the news and dirt sheet and all that kind of stuff, I want to have a little chat about our future 2.0, right? It's not grim, not bad, don't give me that kind of look again. G, if you, and I'm saying you as our audience, aren't aware, we are planning on basically transitioning in the year 2027, I think, into Gloomhaven 2.0 via pod, which is what we've done and we will take everything we've learned from this experience and try to make things better, but also going into a recording kind of situation where we record our gameplay. And I think this is something that I think three people have suggested there. I'm sure a lot of people would want us to sort of see what the chaos that happens behind because we are, how do I put this? We are chaotic. Really shit at the game? Really shit at the game. Somewhat chaotic, like you've heard some of the house rules that we make the games harder. You've heard the shit talk in some of the earlier episodes when we actually used to record the actual sessions and the fun we make of each other. It's high energy in a board game, ultimately. And I think it'll translate quite well and I kind of want to go all out and set all things up with multiple camera angles and I've got a bit of a plan in place and I'm hoping that this is something that our audience will enjoy. Yeah. Well, I mean, people have said that they really think we should do it and that they will enjoy watching it. But you know how, like, how sometimes you have friends and you go, you totally should shave your head, right? Or you totally should have dreadlocks, right? Because as the person not doing it, the consequences are zero. That is true. So for the five people out there that I think really should record three hours of playing really badly, you better watch it. And we're going to check because I think Google and YouTube can tell us. Yeah. And if you haven't, we're going to find you. Yeah. And if none of you watch it, I guess I'll go dreadlocks. That's it. Yeah. And then we drop Easter eggs through the episode and then we can quiz people on it. So like a dwarf. Like a dwarf. And that exam. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's dwarfed using the, you know, pinnacle example and a pillar of the community. We'll say, Oh, 100% I'll watch it. And then we can go like, Oh, yeah, what quiz time? What's this? And if he doesn't answer quick enough, we know these lines. What happened around three with, you know, the brute, correct marks, brute and why did it die? Yeah. Exactly. But the mind faith. Yeah. So this, um, this is something that I'm looking forward to putting together. And this is also where we are. I'm going to open the door a little bit to our audience and just say, look, if you have something that there are videos out there of playthroughs from other groups that exist, is if there is something that is maybe not being done enough or there is a feature to a play along that you would like focused on that I may not have thought of, um, feel free to drop any ideas, hints, requests, things like that. Just so I can gather enough, you know, data, I guess, to, to work out how to improve something that hasn't happened. It doesn't exist. Yeah. I mean, that's a great idea, actually. Like what do you love? What do you hate from playthroughs and where, I mean, Gloomhaven and Frosthaven specifically would be helpful because, you know, but even other playthroughs, right? Don't tell us, you don't don't give, this is not, uh, open to give shit to other content creators. To, if you've, if there's stuff that you like or it's stuff you want us to avoid doing because you think it will make it not watchable, please tell us, don't wait to three episodes in and then be like, no, that's garbage. What are you doing? Um, so yeah. That's a good idea. Yeah. Can I submit ideas? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And anonymously. No. As dwarf. I need to know it's you. Why? So I can ignore them. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. So I'll just feed my ideas through random people in the community. Yeah. So I'm, because most of the time, if we do a recording session of our playthrough, like we're probably going to talk as we're playing about things we're liking and not liking, et cetera. Do you want to record a pod wall where recording, playing the game and recording? No, no, no, no. It's just the, the video potentially will eat into like, I don't want to double dip. Yeah. With things that I say and info and I don't know. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. Okay. We should explore that. We'll be short up. But there might, there's probably pod listeners out there that are like with us, like OG dude from where was it like, who was that OG, like Virginia guy or girl or person? Yeah. They could be listening now going like, what do you mean? I only have dial up internet. I can't access the you tubes, right? Like they might only be getting the pod. Maybe it takes them like a week to download each episode. So what you were saying is we should like carry a picture, record an audio version of our play through, but maybe we're the fifth person on standby for special comments. You know how the person like on TV, the blind person that helps. Wait, not a blind person. The person isn't blind. They don't have to internet. Right. They're different things. Okay. Okay. It is. I know what I mean. And what I'm trying to say, having dial up internet isn't a disability. Oh, yes. Oh, another thing I want to say, I've, I've never said this in, this is episode 73. I have not said this once that I can think of, but if you are enjoying everything that we have been pumping out and I haven't pleaded or anything like that yet, but please do subscribe to our YouTube. All right. A lot of our things are on there. I know that there's, you know, every, every video out there has a percentage of people who are watching every episode, but aren't necessarily subscribing. The subscriptions will help because we're, we've got so many hours of content on there at the moment, um, I wouldn't mind seeing if we can get those, those subs up a little bit more and maybe to help out with the algorithm and, and yeah, be able to share our content with more people. And if you don't have a YouTube account that's even better, like create one and then subscribe and you never have to worry about the like being spam and do it 10 times. Well, I mean, let's, no, we don't know, we don't want, okay, like we can pay bots for that. Can't we? Yeah. I never, I never wanted to be the, please like and subscribe and notification and blah, blah, blah, blah. People want to be about that, but I think once in a blue moon, just as a reminder to say, hey, it'll, it'll help us out a lot that it'll mean a lot. Thank you. Yeah. And tell me friends. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's probably a bigger one. Like, I mean, people playing, if, you know, you're playing with your groups, I'm sure you mentioned the pod, hopefully the YouTube Oh, these decades from Australia. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go on there and just click the thumbs up button. All right. And subscribe. And then you can close your YouTube account at that, that'll actually be fine. Yeah. Yeah. I've been open up our dirt bag. We haven't done this in a very long time. So I've actually got a couple of, you know, just random comments here from YouTube and from Reddit and from Discord and obviously our email of just things that people have said maybe in the last couple of months. Well, it's a couple of months. You've been someone's emailed as two months ago and now we're finally getting to it. I'm not going there far from, actually, it's not really the last couple of months. It's more like the last week. Okay. That's things that I've received for the last two weeks. So, Wario, Werner, Wario, Nerna, whoops. They mentioned that it's a strange feeling to be caught up and not being able to binge watch. This is someone who's been now just plowing through our podcast catalog, ultimately. And I think I did follow up with the question about how long did it take to do that three weeks, apparently. Wow. You got through all of our stuff in three weeks. Pretty much. They're like an hour each and they're starting to get to an hour and a half. They're definitely an hour and a half each. Sometimes they start to get to one hour forty five. Oh, you poor like, but I don't know what the name is. Yeah. It's a lot of our voice in your head. I know. I didn't even want to hear myself that much. I don't even want to hear you that much. Yeah. That's why we only do this once a while. Uh, Chris Day on YouTube, he said, "I'm a little more than a year into Frosthaven and I'm really enjoying going back and listening to this content." So, there's someone who's, you know, played a lot of the game already, is now literally and that was on our fourth episode, uh, that comment. So, it's really cool that people can go back and enjoy them. I don't know if I could. There was someone I actually spoken to recently who knows of the game, has played in a scenario to William Haven, but, you know, just made a quad up with and, uh, was like, "Oh, yeah, I'd love to play Frosthaven, but I don't think I've got the friends to do it and I don't have the time of blah, blah, blah." Um, and I was like, "Well, just listen to the pod and you can live vicariously through us." I mean, you know, if you people want to do the Frosthaven thing, but it, is it a big commitment, right? Like, I've had people say to me, "Is it worth getting?" I'm like, "Oh, that's, that's like, I don't know," asking, "Yes, it is, if you have two years to play a campaign consistently with one to two people, at least they're going to want to do it." Like, because I don't know, I can't think of anything worse than getting, like, 30 scenarios in and being like, "Nah." Yeah, that's, it's tricky because people, if you were doing a pod on something, you obviously care and you're passionate about it, so then people are going to say, "Well, what's the game?" And I always get that as well. And then I tell them the game and they're like, "Oh, that sounds really cool, I'll look into it." I'm like, "Oh, how are you, who are you to tell someone, "Oh, I don't know if it's going to be your jam or anything like that. We should be encouraging people, more people to answer the hobby, but it's such a weird situation than being because of how heavy, well, just how much involved, how involved the game is." Yeah, totally. Like, that's it. It's not gatekeeping it, right? But it's like protecting people against it. Like, you know, like, I know it sounds really cool, but it's like long and hard. And like, I mean, it's a lot of fun, but I'm not selling this, am I? And then they're like, "Not really. Why are you doing a podcast about it?" Like, "It's good, trust me." It's good, just don't do it. Yeah. It is. It's a bit weird like that, so. Chris also followed up with, on Mark's fist video, it was actually really, really nice saying, I appreciate how this video concentrated on actual strategy using the fist and not just talking about the cards, and if they're good or bad, which I feel like. Yeah. So it's a drive-by? Just a slide drive-by, I mean, that's all right. So, I mean, Mark has always had, like, good, besting theories, right? I've heard this. Yeah. He talks about it all the time. He's talking about it for years, really. And then Frosthaven came along and he played the fist class, so he could, you know, put that into action. That's all right. So he knows a lot about it. Some guy called dwarf74 said nerf power potions, and then a little bit before that said, "Power pods are busted." These are two separate comments, by the way. I think if you nerf those two abilities, 75% of the balance issues will start to disappear, so I don't really know. I'm not really going to reply to that. It seems like a troll. Yeah. Yeah. That's a dwarf. But... An email? This recently found your podcast on YouTube, and I've been listening to your episodes on a solid run now up to episode 31. I love the content and the way you have approached talking about your Frosthaven adventures. Our regular group of four, I like hearing that. I like that there are groups of four out there, because I think we had this chat recently about player groups and, you know, how many will be solo two, three, and we think four is the least. Our regular group of four is near the end of Gloomhaven after having started back in 2019. Unfortunately, we are only able to catch up once every three to four weeks due to family and other time constraints, but we've really enjoyed the game, and it's prompting us to keep catching up, which makes it better in our view. I've already bought Frosthaven, and it's ready and waiting for us once we have finished Gloomhaven. In a way, just listening to your podcast is raising the excitement, but when my group is ready to start our Frosthaven campaign, keep up the good work and look forward to listening to all of your episodes, this is match. In PS, while I was listening to one of the podcasts on the train, a man came on at Southern Cross with a white shirt and blue jeans and stood at the door, I had a few glances and then back at my phone, and it looked exactly like Gaz. But since I wasn't sure, I didn't want to say hi, but then it turned out to be someone totally different, quite the awkward moment, if it turned out to be someone different. It would be quite the awkward moment that, you know, however, if it was Gaz, I'm sorry that I didn't come up and say hi. No, that's good. That was not me. No, it's good that you did not harass a random stranger, but I also don't know how I would possibly, how I would react if somebody recognized me, like, I'm so far from being celebrities or even think that people, I'm still surprised people were listening. In fact, it could still all be fake, right? Fake numbers. The thoughts behind it. Yeah, that's it. Like the really advanced AI bots, like filling a discord server. But I guess if that really happened, maybe like messages on discord, like, hey, are you on the train at Southern Cross? Hey, can you turn around? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And one, that would be really weird, but it would probably be, at least I wouldn't know that I'm being stalked. Yeah. There's something flattering about that. It would be totally flattering, but don't get me wrong, like, you should have a stalk worthy. Somebody recognizing me wouldn't be amazing, but it would be, I don't know, like, yeah, totally. Yeah. Do you play Frosthaven? Yeah. We can start random Frosthaven chats with people on the train until someone finally goes, hey, aww, dude. Yeah. Yeah, so. Hi, Daddy and Gaz. I'm a relatively new listener to your podcast, but I've started rushing my, I've already rushed my way through about 35 episodes trying to catch up. My group is just about done with the second winter in our Frosthaven playthrough, and I'm on my third character, bone shaper, into coral, into shackles, currently. I just realized that the invites to your Discord, oh, never mind, I'll clip it up. This is from big chief and big chief is a, there's a couple of new people that have entered our Discord now, which is really nice. So everyone, please give them a nice warm welcome and do what we normally do, which is argue with dwarf. Yeah. That's right. Um, that's cool. A bit of mix of characters there. So. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really nice if you, yeah, if you want to comment on something or send us through something, I'm happy to read it on the pod and have a chat with guys about it, always happy to listen to any, you know, topics and things like that. So let us know, um, that's all those who do contact us. Yeah. Thank you. It's, it's nice to engage in, um, what are you conversation? Yeah. I love conversation and the words, right? They're great. Uh, and I'm, we're really sorry for the people that have been hanging out for two months waiting for the email to get read, uh, yeah, look, that's guys's fault. He's on email patrol. I don't even know. We had an email. Oh, on today's episode. We will be discussing. Well, we're going to go through the, oh, wow, I've really missed this up. I'll be like, we're going to go through the mail bag. Are we? Well, I'm also meant to put that up the top. Apparently people will be waiting once for it to hear us, but at the top, we're going to talk about scenario 132 guys were live. It's really hectic when you're like, I'm really glad we're not. Yeah. It's a temple of feline power. So this is scenario 132. This is what we were meant to do last week. No, no, 123 132. Yeah. There's nothing could possibly change this today. Not. Uh, and then we're going to have a little chat with gas. Uh, I've written down a monster quiz thing. Oh, yes. I love quizzes. This is really awesome. Uh, so off to scenario 30, uh, 132, uh, take two, take two, take two, the first we need to do a road event. Oh, no. No, where are we going to go this time? Do you remember our road event? Uh, no, or what I left it in the other room. Oh, do you remember it? I'll be right back. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. So did you remember it? Yeah, I totally remember this right here. So this is summer road event 46. We were walking down a road, I believe. Once we came across an old lady, I think she's tending to her garden. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, she, I think one of the helpers, we were striking a conversation. I remember what happened. I don't remember the details going into it, uh, but ultimately we had to make a choice whether or not we wanted to have a battle harvest or something like that from her right then and there or whether or not she, we wanted her to teach us how to do it. Yeah. Right. So the thing that I'm going with, the ladder option, which was very cool because it actually allowed us to resolve a building operation, which was the garden back at home. This is the first time that a road event or an event in general has allowed us to do something that's in a completely different part of the game, which is pretty cool. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I think, I think events like this are actually, um, very interesting because of, I mean, that reason. Yeah. I mean, like, I guess it depends on when it pops up. Yeah. Like at the moment, I mean, the thing is we're not really wanting for herbs when, I mean, to accept that that was really interesting because Phil did one of the specifics, oh, specific, uh, that we actually, which herb was a, uh, one of the ones that looked like a dick. Yep. Uh, so that we didn't have, but we haven't planted and then this actually created it. But because we weren't in frost saving, we didn't use it. Which is weird because you're performing the garden task, but we're not there. It's like, we're doing it remotely. Yeah. Well, we got it, but we weren't, we couldn't craft with it. No, that was the problem. We didn't bring out alchemists. We needed to, the next part of the road event needed to be, you run into an alchemy lab and then you can grow potions that you like. Imagine that one's probably in there as well. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, you know, it is cool. Uh, I guess it's just to be a bit lackluster or when you get it, if you don't need the things, right? Extra herbs and being able to use them is cool. We're not really, we don't really care about resources, but it's a cool idea. Yeah. I, um, it's just one of those things where we had such an intense one last week and it's the highs and lows of events, right? It's just some are going to blow your socks off and others. Like, this is a cool event. I like this event. It's just thematically not doing it. I don't know, anything overly exciting. I mean, yeah. Yeah. It's fine. Right. And vanilla is good. So you keep saying? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, and then, yeah, we, we started heading our way to the actual, uh, scenario 132 temple of feline power. Now we did not have to be forced to do the garden event for the old lady. I mean, scenario, um, let's go to dwarfs. Well, can you remind everyone again why we actually want to do 132? Uh, because we need to go investigate the temple of feline power and there's a feline power object that needs to be retrieved by a mysterious persons. Yeah. You may or may not be Indiana Jones. Yeah. I, I meant more from a like my PQ or why did we pick this scenario to do it? Because we need to kill the eddies. We do. We need to kill frozen corpses because my PQ is the one that, you know, uses the axe. Yeah. You know, that's right. The worst PQ in the game. Probably. And I've hated a few of them. That was like one. I mean, that was fine. It was just went forever. That was crap for different reasons. Yeah. Okay. That was like the never ending story, but it kept going. Right. Mine was crap because, uh, we just got bad luck. Yeah. Well, I have to, um, we have to have a 10 of ones that I hate the most. Yeah. Okay. And at the moment, this is, it's probably more recency bias, but at the moment, I hate this one the most. Oh, you mean the axe one? Your axe one. Yeah. Not the temple blessing one. No. I mean, that's the shittest one. I think for my experience, but I'm not even experiencing yours and I dislike it. That's what makes me feel like it's the worst. It is a little bit tricky because it's kind of what it's the only one that I need everyone to just pay a little bit of attention to in a way because everyone just goes on autopilot and kills all of the things that I need. Yeah. It gets a bit funny. Yeah. But also you don't want to be sitting around waiting for me to land a hit. That hopefully will kill it and then go through another recycle so that I can hit it again or anything like that. Yeah. And it's making your game less fun by having it's not take items that you want to make your character. It's true. It'd be fun. It's like, yeah, worst ever. Last week, I think last week was the, the power call one. So I took it and didn't even get to use it, which man, I could have used the items that I bought along anyway. Yeah. So a little bit bad. So previously on Frosthaven, this was a job posting, an old man named Mulbrin introduced himself at the crater, which is basically the pub and offered to tell us a legend for a drink. All right. So I think we bought him a drink. He told you about another group of adventurers who found a dark and powerful idol that compelled them to go high up into the Imperial Mountains, promising them it would fulfill their dreams. They never returned. So he handed us a map and away we had, that's what brought us here, which is very cool. Is that from dwarfs? That is handy, Andy. Previously on. Yeah. We should link that in the, in the notes to the YouTube. Yeah. Cool, haven't seen it, yeah, I'm talk previously on just helps for memory when it comes through here. Why are we here? Because at the beginning of every scenario, there's nothing more than going into it. It's like, oh, you've stumbled upon this, this, you're like, whoa, hang on slightly further back. What's going on here? And he helps, but they're just, just letting you know he only goes back so far. Yeah. I know he doesn't go back all the way to the start, like, to the beginning and creation of the world of the world and then how you met your friends that you're playing with. Okay. Wait, why are we here again? Wait. In Frosthaven? No, no, no, at, at Daddy's house. Yeah. How did we meet? Yeah. So do off get on that next. Uh, scenario 132, template of Feline Powell. This was designed by Tom Heath. Tom Heath now, I didn't know who Tom Heath is, but he's a youtuber. Okay. He's a youtuber. He's done about 1900 videos and a lot of board game related stuff. Um, I think his name is slicker drips and um, covers a lot of games, a lot of games from how to play and all sorts of stuff, actually really like, like good videos and some really uh, nice British accent, which is kind of like calming when he's explaining a board game. Okay. So does he do like how to play video? I believe so. I believe so. Okay. Yeah. Or, or it's more of a watch me show you how the game works. That's not so much an in-depth how to play, but get an idea of how it plays. Yeah. Okay. Cool. I like that. Yeah. We've escaped. At the end of that round, we read a thing scenario effect. We suffer two damage and gain wounds. No. And we also took two damage from the event we had last week of bloody vermalinks. Yes. Now you're right. None of us had to accept that except for Phil and why is that? Because he's new. He is new. So what is Phil playing? He's a blink blade. I know mine gloane, right? You know how you have that movie that you really like and even though the types of other new movies out that you really could watch, but you just go back and play that. Everyone's got a favorite movie, guys. Yeah. Exactly. I love it. They could watch mine in three. Wait. Was there a three? Yeah. Okay. Or they could go back to the better one, which was two. Yeah. I think one was pretty good, actually. I don't remember. I think. But aliens is mine. Oh, okay. I love that. Yeah. Okay. No, that makes sense. Four ice rates and snow imps, first from set up is a big square room kind of eight stand is. I mean, that's a lot. Four being ice rates, four being snow imps and a mixture of normal and elite, you know, peppered in there. Special rules. Now, listen carefully, if any character becomes exhausted, the scenario was lost. Now, I want to take a deep dive into this for about 30 minutes or so, which should be enough. What thoughts of the special rules of this scenario? I don't understand them. I had, it really needed you to read them back a few times. Okay. I'll just remind you, if any character becomes exhausted, the scenario was lost. What about if the player just goes home? Uh, I don't think you lose then. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Sorry. You can infinitely. Yeah. Daddy cool bad, basically. Okay. Yeah. Challenge cards. Great is good. Enemies perform loot one at the end of their turn. Whenever an enemy lutes a loot token, he gains strength or strengthen. Question with that. Notice. Yes. When Mark has finished his PQ, which is to complete these trial, not trials, challenges. Is there, are you motivated to do them? To play with challenges. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Why? Because I'm not really I'm finding ever since like Clint or Glint or what's his name? Glint. Glint. Yeah. Yeah. That he lost all our things. Yeah. But now that he's just like go do them again and I'm like, yeah, I'm okay with that, but he doesn't, he's not going to give us anything. No. Yeah. Like I feel like there's no like when we were doing them, we had the little boxes to tick off and the town guard were working towards an unknown like kind of reward, which is fine. But there kind of was times when it was worth tossing up whether we do one or two, like it was like, oh, like, oh, yeah, we could probably push two here because we were trying to get through them quicker. But now I'm finding more and more that I'm just looking and I'm going like, like, one, I guess, like totally. And I need something. So if you take them away, does it make the game to vanilla, but I mean, vanilla is good though. Oh, God sakes. But no, I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. This is where I'm torn and I don't know because I've spoken so much of them. I do, but you also want them to be a reason. Yeah. Correct. Like they're making the scenario harder, always always more fun, yes, but harder as well. And I know we've complained about it being too easy. So that's not a bad thing, but I mean, some of them just get in your way. So I'm kind of like, do I want this or not, right? And I don't know. That's what I mean. I don't know. I'm genuinely curious. And every time we flip over one, I go, oh, I guess that one maybe. And then I'm like, oh, wait, we need to do them because Mark needs to complete some of them. So that's fine. It's not that it's his fault, but we've got a PQ that requires them done. So I'm happy to keep doing them. But I'm wondering in like three or four, once he's done, if it's going to flip three over and blend out. Well, there's 45. So we could always go through the deck and split it in half from the ones that it's flat out. Don't make scenarios fun at all. So the ones that make them relatively interesting and change it up that way. Because I think removing them will just feel, yeah, too vanilla, too potentially easy. Now, obviously we can pump up the difficulty more on that later, you know, to spice it up a little bit. But the last thing we want is for them to be a cakewalk. Yeah. Totally. It's it's the sum of them are really interesting and some of them are just it's harder, right? Like everything gets to more health. That's not more interesting. That's just harder. Right. And it's both. Well, why? I mean, more health. Yeah. Okay, then, initiative is backwards or don't stand next to each other or whatever it is, right? Like there's a whole bunch of ones that change the way you play. They're interesting. And I think they still will mix it up a bit. Yeah. Just just have more health, have a shield, even don't have them stand next to each other. It's really just make it harder, which is fine. And again, I'm not saying I don't want them. I don't know because I have loved these, right, like the simplest thing would be to obviously increase the XP slightly or something there, but I know we probably don't want to do that. And it's not really something that's going to excite us and motivate us. No, I want to hit in like section event thing. Can someone whip up a hidden section for us that if we complete the deck again, we get something we get something, but don't tell us what it is. No, you can't. You've got to write it. So even if it's nothing. No, it can't be nothing. Okay. Yeah. But even if it is nothing and then we finish it, right? We were at least motivated by the idea that they might have been something, no, but it can't be nothing. Oh, okay. It can't be nothing. No, because if it's nothing that I'll get really annoyed and don't do it to troll me. But we'll be done by then. No, it's fine. It doesn't matter. This is the point. Like we just had a whole podcast last week about talking about when things resulted nothing and it sucks. But but no, generally, if someone has a good idea, I don't know how you're going to do this and keep it secret. Message to wharf and dwarf can hold on to it because he can make sure that it's not game breaking. And then we can read it when we finish the challenge. Like, now I'm really excited about this. It's probably going to be something like daddy has to play the Gemini. Let's do it. Let's go. Why don't I even say that? Like, it'll probably be like some kind of rule changes to our, well, the other thing is we may finish the campaign before we finish the deck. Well, that's the other thing we don't know, but then that's even more of an incentive to do two at a time. Oh, they may tell us that we have to replay Ross Haven. Okay. But in all seriousness, right? They even have the storyline played out. You just need to come up with a reward, right? We get back to, is it Glint? Yeah. We get back to Glint and the haul of records is on fire. We want, right. Right. What Glint says, like, basically write the, the, the, the rate, the duration of what happens when we go back and then the reward we get, right? They just come with a reward. I just came up with a story. We get back and the house of records is on fire and Glint runs out and he says, Oh, no. Well, you can do this as an example. Okay. Oh, no. I ended it all. But now everything's burnt down. Yeah. You're going to have to do it again. But I actually managed to save this. More challenge cards. Well, here's the reward. Oh, yeah, yeah. Here's your reward for doing it this time. More challenge cards. Do it again. Right. Yes. Do it. All right. So someone come up with that, please. Yeah. Love it. Pets for the evening. What Dr. Blackamp, which is the initiative order. Everyone does an attack too. What the lightning in all suffer. We haven't seen what in ages. We haven't used warden ages. I think even when he does show. Oh, it's not for two damage to recover a card from discard. A party deady on the level seven, astral gas on our level something shards. Yep. Five. Oh, five. I think I'm five. Nice. Mark on a level seven kelp and fill on the level four blink blade. Now we, Adex didn't really change, did they? Because we kept the cards because we kept the cards that we thought we needed to do last week to do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because there was escape and then it was basically escape. Yeah. And then escape again. Pretty much. It's just an escape scenario. Therefore bring lots of movement, lots of, I don't know, stuns and stuff. We do that. Some, some people do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, section links when all enemies, uh, when all revealed enemies are dead, we read a thing. So what is the strategy here? Kill all monsters. Um, if any character exhausts, you lose. Yeah. So don't die. No, don't die. I don't even come close to dying. I might even come close to dying. Okay. That's not part of the rules. That's true. You didn't understand the rules. No, I don't have to die. I read half the rule. Yeah. If any character, oh my God, this sounds so hard. Oh, yeah. Um, so I thought, well, strategy wise, I'll go in and soak some hits and you scream and shout. Because vibrate. And vibrate, um, and then the two pub stompers just go in and everything else. Yeah. Exactly. Right. That's like, that's our strat with this exact lineup. So what actually happened just, just right at the start, I think Phil went up and punched something and then exploded. Oh, man. I'm a blooming bird. I remember this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then died. Well, almost almost died. He had to burn a cup kicked out of him. Yeah. Do we use it in his defense? He was already starting on negative for health. Right. And he sat, well, actually, I have a card in front of me. So his health should have been 12. So he starts at 12 and he lost four to start with. Oh, yeah. So it was eight. And then he went up and hit something that had retaliate because everything has retaliated in this one. So his health was lower than eight and then he got hit and then he had to discard a card and I was like, okay, all right. Yeah. It's like, it's like riding a bike except when you fall over on the spikes. Because he was, it was funny because he's like, I remember this character. It's fun. It's broken. I'm going to go in and miss everything. I'll watch this. And he goes in and goes right into the kneecap of one of them and then they all just. Yeah. It's ruined him. Yeah. Yeah. So. So that this meant the next three turns. I was on heel duty. Yes. I mean, no, I mean, I've got one heel card. So so I used it. I used it. And I basically used that card to squeeze the wheel and fill. Yeah. Correct. As soon as I rested and got it back, it was used on fill because he dropped back down again. Yeah. So I want to do a mama, mama, mama, mama, mama, mama, mama on ice rates. Now, this scenario, also, we chose to bump up the difficulty for the first time. I think the first time. Yeah, ever. And yeah, we bumped it up to because we were just like, bling played, kelp, you know, utility support between guys and I, we've got enough tools and tricks to just sort of, you know, control the environment and then the other two just blow everything up. And then we'll try plus one and if, you know, it goes well, we'll just go plus two. It's a little hard to tell from this scenario, though, whether it was easy or not. I don't know. Ice rates. So at this difficulty, and I think they're one of the few that have the same health if they're normal or elite. And I think that was intentional because they swap between the two different types. Their movement is three, three for normals for for elites and their attacks are three and four at this level four. The normals have an eight curse and a shield to and the elites have an eight wound and retaliate three range three, which is kind of rough. Guys, do you know what their lowest initiative might be and what their highest initiative might be lowest? I'm going to say is six. No, no, you just got it wrong. Sorry. Yeah, it's not like a continuous thing. So that's the thing. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's the highest one you should know, though. Ninety five. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's the swaps. That is the swaps. Is that their reset card? That is one of their reset cards. That's what I found interesting is that their swap card, despite, I think seeing it earlier. There's only one of them. The other swap is a heel. The other swap. The other, the other reset card is a heel. Sorry. Okay, because there's a lot to heal as well. Yes. Yeah. And I think an attack as well. Yeah. Um, which I thought they swapped more, but it's one of eight. Yeah. Okay. Which I thought was interesting. Yep. Yep. Um, I guess it's. Yeah. No, it's all right. Continue. I'll let you have a guess what you think and take your time with this. I'll even have seven. Six. What elemental or fin of the you do you reckon they have? I'm going to keep my answer. Six. There are six elements. Exactly. That's what I was getting at six elements, which I got that right. Uh, so which element affinities do they have? Yeah. Uh, ice. Yeah. All right, done. Nice. Nice. So, noticeable features. Out of the eight cards that they have, six of them are attacks. Okay. But three of them are heels. And some of those overlap. I'm doing this as a thing right now, but they overlap. I'll just cut this bit out. This is like throwing bad gang size. They got four. Ice generated cards. They got four ice consumer cards, which I thought was a lot. Like, it's actually a lot. Um, in compared to maybe others that I've seen. And then, of course, the gimmick, which is the swapping between elite and normal. And because they're designed in such a way that the normals have shield and prefer ranged attacks and then the elite's stone. It's a very interesting concept. And to a lot of people, actually, it's probably their favorite mob from Frosthaven because they're unique to Frosthaven, I believe. Yeah, they're not in Gloomhaven. Yeah, I think they're the best haven monster out of all of that. Are they still your favorite? Yeah, yeah, yeah. From a design perspective, they, they are so hard to play against. They just, there's never a good time. It never feels good attacking these. Because you're either taking retaliate damage or having to push through through shields. Right? Like, it just always sucks. Yeah. And then they hit you. And they hit you pretty hard, right? And they curse you or they're hitting you from range. And it's just, they suck all the time. Right? And I think from a, because they make your life miserable, right? But they don't do it in a, like, NPE way. Like, you don't have negative play experience. Like, as in like, they just hit stunned or muddled or that kind of shit all the time. It's like, you've got to figure out how to do this. But you can, it's going to take a bit, right? And it can be long range attacks to ignore the retaliate or really big damage to get through it. Like, you know, two really big hits will get not as much retaliate damage or, you know, Pierce then obviously makes the shields. So you have to kind of play around that. And I think that's really, really cool monster design. Yeah. And even just hearing you talk about the different cards, because I don't know, because I don't look at the cards, right? And so you just see it and go, oh, they do that all the time. Well, they never do that. But it's interesting hearing that they have so much ice generation and consumption. Yeah. A couple of heals and all that stuff. So yeah, it's, it's cool. They're still, yeah, I still think they're the best design monster. I do like that. Every time you encounter them, most times, sorry, there's a mixture of normal and elite because it swaps up the play area. And that's always caught us off. But the good thing about it is it goes out of 95. So you can sort of see it all. But it definitely does confuse the group a little bit because it's kind of like, which one did we go for? And then it's like, do I go for the shield one? I don't know if here's there anything like that. But I don't want to take three damage from that one. That's it. Oh, yeah. And that's the thing. It's an amazing way of making like an attack three useless, right? Because you go, oh, I hit this guy, I'm going to take three damage back. It's not worth it. Like, what if I draw a red card and it's only two damage. I've done two damage and I've taken three. That's shit. Or I hit the guy with a shield, which I'm probably also not going to push much damage through. So it's amazing that they do. They nullify that mid range level attack, which sucks. But I think it's really cool because they're like tanky without being really tanky in a sense. Yeah. And they've got a lot of heals, right? They've got a lot of ways to recover health, even though two of them are like self one heals. It's enough to, you know, remove a wound or remove a or something. And lastly, they fly. So anyone who's going to plan a hazardous terrain thing because you go, Oh, pure damage. We can just do pure damage to get past all of it. Ha ha. Well, bar may be a shackle. Yeah. Yeah. It's you're going to have a bad time. It is. It is. So, I mean, look, there was a point in that first room where I actually had it lined up where I could have stunned two of them. Right. But they were both lead. I'm not taking six damage for that. Like, I'm just not doing that. Like, like, it's stunning too is great. Right. I was taking him out of the game and then they're not going to tackle do whatever crazy shit they're going to do. But I don't want to take six damage for that. So I was like, and that's range three. I'm like, I can't even get out of range. It is amazing how much retaliate, like, retaliate spin in the game forever. And, you know, you know, it's there. It's, it's just thinking about the multi attacks like you were saying or AOE or hitting two targets or grim trophies, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Like how much it can book you? Like you say you're hitting two things, but you're taking six. Yeah. That's insane. And doing zero damage. Like, I mean, I'm not doing anything. Like, I'm, I stunned. Great. But I don't know. No, it's on the house. If, if they were petable, capturable, throwable into our stable, what might their ability look like? I've got, um, I've got a thing, right? So it says must be used on the first available turn. Okay. So when you want to use the pet for the ice wave, if it was one, if you choose to use it, it has to be used on the first character, not just waiting until the last one. All right. All characters cannot, and it has to be before movement so that whoever wants to pop it, they blow it right at the start of their turn before they even move. So all characters cannot move this round. That's the icy part of it. All right. Choose an initiative order if they want to shield or to retaliate or to shield or to retaliate range to. Yeah. Sounds cool. But it's still kind of going in with the theme of the ice wave as well, which I think sometimes is the tricky thing too. It's a sort of make. Yeah. The finding the theme for the pets is tricky. Yeah. Oh, everyone flies. I thought about us swapping to like elites. Of the top of my head, when you use this pet, everybody gains two shields if it's an even round and to retaliate at range to if it's an odd round. That's nice. That's perfect. It's a lot. Yeah. Oh, wait. Oh, for the uses for that round. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Depending on whether it's odds or even. Yeah, because you got to factor in a little bit. I didn't want to go to nuts. That's why I got rid of the movement thing because I was like weedy or the rule machines already giving one shield. Giving flat out two shield is just power creep and this is flat out makes it better, right? So it's kind of like, how do we make this somewhat different and not as not not going to replace weedy. But I mean, it's situational, right? Because if you were like a normal group picking your pets and you were like having one shield will be really useful. This isn't one. This isn't two shield. This is only two shield on every even round. So you can't be like, it has to line up. You should be like, oh, we really need weedy. Oh, we didn't bring weedy. We brought this guy who's better. Oh, cool, except you don't get any shields now. It's like, oh, wait, retaliate. It's pretty cool. Yeah, but I'm going to die. So yeah, I get what you mean. The negative, I guess, is that it's a random. Yeah. So yeah, but that's a cool idea. Like of having them as a pet. We're going to have to all the pets that aren't captureable come up with a pet thing for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to make our own game by the end of this. Like, no, a hundred percent or a lad, then it'll all get just used. Yeah. Isn't that what the Crimson scales like people did? Yeah, there's made their own game. Yeah. I don't think else will be anywhere near as polished. I don't even think it'll exist. Oh, scrap piece of paper and something we'll talk about a fair bit. Right on the back of one of Phil's DPS sheets. Yeah, we'll just get so the rules and everything will be so convoluted and just so bloated. But bloathaven, bloataven. Do you remember when we ranked our old mate, Iceroth? I'm going to rex us. Oof. Not bad. Meh. In the bin. I'm going to say oof. But I could see them being in rex us. We oof them. Yeah. We did oof them. Are they still oof? Yeah, I'd say they are high oof. Like, I don't think that they necessarily always rule in your day, but like in this one, we had, what, three or four in the first room? Yeah, weirdful. Oh, and that was rough. Yeah. Like, that was a rough room to get through. Oh, Phil. Yeah. Yeah, I know I had to heal. And snow imps. Yeah. And snow imps as well have their capability of just doing some real gross stuff. So, yeah, I think I think oof is they're not like top tier hardest monster in game, but they are hard because you can't prioritize them. You need to. They're like, this, we need to kill this, but we can't. And if we do, we're going to take a shitload of damage or spend a lot of resources to get through. So, yeah. Yeah, okay. Just trying to think of that first room without any pets. I mean, pets would have been pretty nasty in there. Oh, like is in, if we had, like, player pets, like, something like a bunch of overall. Oh, yeah. Something with all the retail. Yeah. And now that would have been terrible. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, both shape and ignore retaliate. That's true. But Prism, I wouldn't have summoned. Which would have been really interesting. That, Mark, at the setup of one of the things we were, I think frozen corpses have retaliate. And it was like, my pets are going to die on it. And I was like, yeah, you should probably bring that card. He's like, no, I've got this. And then he sort of thought about it. And then he was like, I actually know that's a good idea. Yeah, it retaliates, though. All right. So back to the scenario. Now, it feels kind of done his thing. I'm having my turn. And it's very memorable for me. I announced that I would like to kill a snow imp very early for battle girl reasons. And on this difficulty, they have for health and no shield. Well, easy as that. Easy for health. Easy as that. And I'm going at like a 16 initiative. Okay. The only card I know of that they have is an initiative five. And it gives them five shield. I think they heal themselves and they create an element. All right. I need to not see that card. If I knew there was someone that could look into the future and help me plan that. And I'm not doing another spotlight on the snow imp right now, obviously. But do you know how many cards go faster than my 16 that the snow imps have? One. Two. No. Eight. It's one. Okay. It's just that one card with the initiative five. Yeah, one night. And what did they play? That card. They play the card. Yeah. I cannot believe how much the Eames just wrecked my first turn in so many different scenarios. Oh, wreck everyone's turn through me when I'm creating an element that they get to do out attacks. They do actually. They always it's like they get to go through their deck and pick the card that most folks. They're like, Oh, that is here. All right. Cool. What do we have? Yeah. Yeah. If anything, like, I would want them to make an element right now with this character. But they're still finding. I know. And they were before you as well. In fact, they were helping you. They just didn't realize that you needed to murder them. So, gas gas gas is a good support. He's strengthened me and he's like, you know, he could have helped me with my job, my PQ and all my battle goal. And because I can no longer hit the things that have five shield, I now have changed target to one of the elite ice rates. I think it was the elite or the normal. I can't remember. Because gas helped me. He strengthened me. I copped my axe and I got ready to go into to hit this thing. And I pulled my two cards and the very first card was the times two, which was amazing. So I think we hit with five. The axe hit for another three. And then the shield. If it was normal, I can't remember which target I was late. All I know is I got my BG on the first turn, which I was very happy with because I was going to be on that little wimpy snowy imp who would have been super mega booked. And ended up going into an ice rate, which got me my BG and also got me one progress on my PQ, which was lovely. So question. Yes. If which is worse. Yes. Okay. The imp's pulling the five shield card, which means that you can't kill them. Or if you had gone before the men attacked and I hadn't given you strength and you just missed. Which of those is a worse scenario for you? What was the first one again? They did exactly what they did, but you didn't have another target. Oh, I don't hear. I guess I'd have to hit it and hope for an AMD element generation that they can then. Oh, no, they're not eating either. Oh, it'll set up my turn to and I'll just be slightly shitty. So you'd be more upset with the miss. Yes. Okay. I'm just wondering what's more upsetting them fucking you or you fucking yourself. Look, it doesn't matter because neither of those two things happened. What do you mean they did pull the five? Yes, I know, but I still got to do my I got if anything, I got a better turn out of it. You did because of what they did. If anything, they helped. They helped. That's it. They're helping. And they also generated you an element. They 100% do that. So guess it's hard supporting Phil. Mark is grabbing about and by the time we enter our first cycle, the axe is back up and there's one more ray thought, which is really nice. So we blew our dog to bring it down just a little bit and I tapped the axe again and boom headshot another one down. So I actually got two in the first room, which is really quite nice and collectively as a group, we basically yeah, we got through it quite quite OK. I don't even remember anyone getting brittle. Do people get brittle? Oh, I think the only I think Phil got brittle because he got hit. Someone got hit brittle hit brittle. That sounds like Phil. Yeah, probably. Yeah, I don't other than that. No, I think we were fine. I mean, in saying that I think Phil did a pretty good job of killing the imps or maybe Phil and Mark together because I don't think there was like four of them in that room and I don't really think they did much. So I reckon they got dealt with pretty quickly and it wasn't I wasn't killing him. So yeah, I don't know. I reckon it was and I wasn't taking any damage. So yeah, I'm not too sure what the snowimps were doing, but yeah, they went in their bins all of a sudden. So suddenly a wall drops in the actual room and you know, it's a hallway with nothing in it except for, you know, a lonely pedestal in the center. I bet nothing will ever happen if we go anywhere near that. And guys, now I need to ask you a question. You've got a card that grants us movement. You haven't given this card any form of nickname or anything like that so that we can go birds. Right now, no one's even asking for it. Apart from the occasional, I'd probably look at you and I'm like, can you move me? And that's about it. If you gave it a name of some kind, would that then ruin it because everyone would just start yelling at all the time? Maybe. I don't know. I don't think so, would they? I don't know. I just feel like it needs a code name. But what would it be called? What could they call it? Well, that's why I'm asking you. Let's call it. You don't get to jump. So it's not like birds. You don't get to jump. Birds don't really jump. Well, yeah, but you get jump out of birds, right? And it's called birds of the tempest. Birds of... What's the bird's car called? Birds of a tempest? Yeah, that's it. So this one's called... Shout. Shout? Vibrating Shout. Okay. I'm just making things up. The cards are right there. I could look it up, but I'm not going to. No. Okay. Well, Gads, can you violently shout? I mean, violently vibrating. Can you vibrate me over there? I'm just practicing when I need to get you to do that. Okay. You have to yell really loud just like, "I need to vibrate." I don't think we know what the initiative for that card is. It's a good nose. You don't even know either. Don't even know. It's just... It's not even birds. It's ghetto birds. It's birds from wish. Look, the more you guys know, the more you're going to met her and game it and talk about it. That's why I don't really want you to do any of this. That's it. We need to actually change the initiative of birds so that, like, nobody knows what that is. Or you span that word. You ban it, but you ban it, but you have to punish it as well. Okay. So if you say birds, you get negative three movement to your next turn. And borrow. And borrow, which... That sounds good. It's a shit version of borrow, which doesn't exist. No. You try to borrow, but you scrape your face across the ground. But you're not moving, though. So you're just putting your face on the ground and not moving. That's just kind of dumb. You fall over. This is a work in progress. Yes. Yeah. Our game's going great by the way. So the door... This empty room with the pedestal. And there's a door at the end that's locked. And it's kind of like, you know, if someone ends their turn to Jason to the pedestal, something will happen. All right. So we saddle up and goes down next to the pedestal, which is pretty cool. We find out what happens. So what I'll actually happen is two ice rates and two frozen corpses spawn near the door. And a numbered token goes on the character map for the person who triggered the event. And this was the idol. Oh, it's been other idols on a pedestal weird thing like that. I don't know. It just seems a little full-show. Yeah. And it can actually be passed, which is pretty cool. So I'm, I don't know, a football style. You can actually pass this style. Yeah. Yeah. You can actually pass it to an adjacent character any time on your turn. The person with the idol puts a damage token on their map. And these tokens will reduce the movement the more you have. There's a formula for it in the scenario. When the idol is passed to a mate, you put a damage token on their map. And every second round, the person with the idol adds another token to their mat, but all the other players may remove one token from theirs. So generally, I guess if it's going to take a hot minute, it's passing this idol around while you're trying to achieve everything else in the scenario and escaping. Yeah. Which is kind of cool. What are your thoughts on these special rules? Yeah, I like the idea of it. It seemed a bit clunky mechanics-wise just tracking that, which is not probably not. Probably not. Let's put in tokens on there and remembering what you're doing. But yeah, it seemed like a cool idea, especially in an escape scenario. Yeah. It's like now you aren't escaping as much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's better than, it's better than the other one, the reverse escort quest where you just, everyone got negative one movement, I think it was. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, I like this because again, it's controllable in a sense. It's like if you have a character who doesn't have great movement, you're not punishing everyone, you go, well, we can't really give it to that person because it's going to book the group. So you kind of have a way of doing that. Yeah. And then, you know, again, it's like a push your luck in a sense. Like, oh, I can hold it for a bit longer. Well, the fact that it is every second round as well kind of gives you that little bit of leeway. But yeah, you're right. You kind of want to coordinate just handling it back and forth or doing the spinny throw thing that we don't do here. You know, in Australia, we do a handball in our football. In our football. Yeah. American football. Yeah. Do that one. They throw it. There you go. Hot. And then they throw it. All right. Oh, we just lost half I was. Is that? Oh, we gained half. Um, yeah. So yeah. Raiders lost our vibes minus the ball. Yeah. That was one thing I wanted. Yeah. I kind of wanted something like that. Yeah. There was like kind of a spike ball pushing us behind. Like, go, go, go, go, go. And so this is maybe going into too much detail for how things ended up. But like, I feel like when we opened that door and the next room was there and the monsters were there, there wasn't really any incentive for us to move through. And that's where something like a, yeah, like a boulder. If you want to just completely keep, you know, leaning into the cliche, a boulder or something to go, you know what, you have X amount of turns to get out. Yeah. Right. And maybe it's like every turn two or three tiles just get deleted essentially. The place was kind of crumbling towards the end. Anyone. So we could have taken one damage every round and then it increases the two damage and then, you know, at a time, basically. Yeah. Give people a reason that he should be rushing out of there. I think would have been cool. I can already tell that if that was the case, any of that that we have suggested, it will be probably critically hated by the majority of people. Yeah. Well, the people are stupid sometimes. So sometimes you're, if you, you're, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to other people. Yeah. That's fine. No, I mean, like, I think that, yeah, it look probably is maybe a bad mechanic. It just has to get worked. So that it's not like annoying. Yeah. So just before we open the door, we have those mobs in front of us and we're like, how are we going to deal with this and what are we going to do, et cetera. And our good mate, Michael, Dustin, the iron said, don't worry, guys, I got this. And he went super saiyan. He did. He did his thing. So what we got from Inver's, he did double pot. I don't know. Yeah, he just popped all his cool down. To the double pot. He used his top and bottom cards that we covered as a combo with the, you know, hit and move a lot. And it was kind of like something out of a street fighter game in that, you know, you see the four guys there and then everything kind of goes dark and then he sort of does this and he can see this flashes a light. Yeah. And then the lights come back on and they're all down. Dead. And, um, wait. Do you hear that, guys? I can hear someone that just paused the video. Something 74 is typing. Something something power potions. I can't be sure. But moving along. But yeah, we definitely went in there and it was fun watching Mark just go absolutely ham. Where's my thing? Is it that one? He's already dead. And then we open the door into the last room. And we're greeted with a giant room. Ice terrain scattered around frost demons, ice raids, snow hymns, glare at us. And we've got this bloody idol slowing us down. But there's five escape hexes at the end of the room. So it looks like we've got an epic fight on our hands, as the last dance. I'm looking at the room now because it's still set up here and it's in front of me and there's like three frost demons. We've got two, uh, wait, yeah, frost demons. What are those? The ice race we're just talking about. Yeah, two ice raids. There's some snow. This is a pretty epic room. There's ice everywhere. There's traps. Like we escaped. Yeah, I know. We just jumped over. We just escaped. Like, so what's what happened? We just jumped because all the mobs are still there. We just left. So, well, we just were like. So, so, so Mark teleported. Mark teleported. And here he had the idol. He, I had the idol. So if I'm not often you, he teleported to like the middle of the room or something like that. Yeah, and he was invisible. He was invisible. Yeah. You had your turn. I think the initiative was just so good. Like the way we planned all of it. Yeah, so I went early. I had lots of tokens. I gave you and feel both extra movement, which also gives me extra movement. And so you guys moved over with jump because you can. Yeah, I've got, you know, jump because of the, uh, what do you call infusion? Yep. And Phil had jump boots. So both jumped over, which got you past the initial wall. Because what was interesting when we opened the room, the first turn, the frost, the demons actually moved up and formed like a bit of a wall. It was actually really cool because they kind of blocked the door in a way. That's it. But then that just meant that they weren't near the back of the room, which is where we needed to go. So yeah, you guys all jumped over. I managed to pick up this useless item, which I've used every single scenario now, which lets me teleport up to 20 spaces in a turn as long as I end next to a player, one of our allies. And that was basically it. So like in from the round, we opened the door, they all moved to the front. Next round, we win. We win because of these shenanigans. Just jump, literally jump over the moment. Like the movement you're giving, I have plus one to the movement from my infusion. I then played another car that has two bottom moves on it, which then was plus one to both of them. I was escaped fills. Mark was the only one that was probably still hanging around because he can because he's invisible. It just doesn't care. And that was it. That was it. Done. The place sort of collapses, kind of. Who knows, we're all gone. And then this cliche mystery dude, you know, steps out of his shadows and he's doing that slow clap. And it was kind of like, I was like, Oh, wow. Okay. That's how original, Mr. Mr. And while I was writing these notes, guys, I was rechecking the conclusion of what happened at the end of the scenario, which is what I literally was just saying. And it turns out that dude was Mulbrunn, who gave us the job. Okay. Back at the pub. Oh, okay. That makes sense, I guess. So we hand him the idol, not by choice, because he's all like, you know, he got the the Sith Lord thing going on, where he's just like, he will give it to me. And it's like, yep, you go, done. And that was it. Done. So, does I mean this guy's a bad guy? Like, you probably don't know this. This is one of those things where like someone's asking you within the first 10 minutes of a movie, whether that's the bad guy. Yeah. And he's not being known. I mean, we've read the first intro to the next scenario, right? Did we? I feel like we had this conversation about the next part of it was like, and you start with the idol. Yes. And we're like, wait, wait, wait. I looked at it because we knew we were going to do it because it's a force link. So 133 is the force link we're going straight to it. I was looking at the scenario goal for that, which was also an escape one. And it looks like the idol, the special rule kind of thing still kicks in. We still have the idol, which is kind of weird and annoying because we gave it to this guy, so we wouldn't be debuffed. And he's like, oh, that's shit. I can't move. And he gave it to us. So we didn't read the, like, the flavor. Okay. So that might explain it. Okay. Cool. I'm kind of hoping it's like a Latin Jafar situation, right? Like, which one are we? A Latin. I want to be Jasmine. Okay. That's fine. She wasn't there. She was just in the palace chilling. So you're not. I love that. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Meanwhile, we're in the temple getting the, you know, things. I'm a princess. What do I need things for? Anyway, don't, don't clip that. Um, so yeah, we won. We got one inspiration. We're suddenly farming inspiration. For some reason. Because we complained about it. Yeah. Which we keep getting then told afterwards it can be used as a, you know, it's a good one. You can use as many different things. Yeah. But we didn't go back to build useless buildings. Yeah. Well, the one thing that predominantly you're using a four is to finish off PQs that you don't want to actually go ahead and do, which we don't really have any. No. What were your thoughts on scenario one, three, two? Uh, it was all right. Like it was, there was bits that were fun. The first room was fun because there was lots of monsters. It was fun. Yeah. It just, the first room was tricky because there was a lot of damage there, a lot of monsters. It was kind of a bit strategy. Not just like lots of monsters to kill, but lots of monsters to kind of work around. Um, I think the threat level of the first room was really high, which is kind of cool. Because it kind of, you felt like you had to make good decisions. Uh, the middle room, there wasn't anything in. And then the third room, we jumped over. So I like the idea. I think maybe we just cheesed it somehow by, but not really cheesy. We just used our abilities. Um, and I don't even think we used them the best. Like there's way better ways that you could have done that last room. Like birds, for example, we're talking about. Oh, it would have made other characters. Yeah. It would have made even more trivial. Uh, because yeah. Um, so yeah, I don't know. The monster types were cool. That's great. I like that. Um, I just, I wanted more. Do you know what this reminded me of a little bit? The special rules, the derelict elevator. You know how the rule for elevator dropping and the levels and the token thing? And it was kind of like, it kind of should be a cleaner way to represent this. It just felt a little bit clunky. That's what I think the idle back and forth tracking the rounds and all of that. And, and the token kind of situation. That's what it reminded me of of. Surely there's a easier way to do this that's still going to achieve the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like in this one, you could just make it anyone. They just get one token every turn like. Yeah. If, if you had one person that was like really slow and I maybe, maybe this. Maybe they tested it and it was gross. Right. So that's possibly why not. But I feel like you need to try to force people to fight these monsters. Because that's the, that's the fun part. Right. Like of making them fight their way through to the exit. Being able to just jump over it. Maybe make the person with the idle. They can't jump or teleport. Right. So that you, other people can, you're not impacting them. But you can, at least they have to kind of like, you know, rush this person through. Like it's kind of protect that. Yeah. I don't know. I think there's some interesting ways that you could, you could change the special rules on this. Um, maybe you can pass it two or three. Uh, hexes. Yeah. Exactly. Right. But like you make the negative worse, but then you can pass it. Um, and then you need to use that. Right. We have to roll a catch check. Otherwise it's a three damage. Like, yeah. Blood ball all over again. Yeah. Character dies because you can't catch a ball. Uh, but yeah. I think something like that. Like this just about to, uh, once you got through the first room, the rest of it was just easy. Now if we couldn't move and jump through all that, that would have been a really tricky fight. Cause the frost demons can hit hard. Yep. We just talked about ice rates and then you might peep it in there as well. At the back. And frozen corpses. Yeah. Were there frozen corpses? Oh, in that second room, there were. When we opened up the wild, they were spawn. I forgot about that. There was only two though. Yeah. No. Yeah. Okay. That's true. That's true frozen corpses. That's right. There was two. We had a kelp. Oh, we had a kelp. Okay. Yeah. No, no, okay. So the scenario is fine. We just had the wrong characters. The monsters be deleted and then jump over all the monsters to finish. Yeah. Okay. So, but I liked it. I think if this will not make our top 10 best or worst, it'll probably be forgotten. But I like what it was trying to do. Yeah. And I think that it did create that kind of experience. Yeah. It's a double edged sword when it comes to designing an escape scenario to keep the tension up but also make it fun. It's sort of, it did that. It's just, like I said, we achieved it. We won at the end. We won. There's an element of I would have liked to have gone through a slog. But then I probably would have, I will probably regret saying that. Right. Once you're doing it. So it's kind of like a typical person of you can't please me. Yeah. That's a good point, actually. If this was really hard and yucky and we had these stupid special rules that made the game not fun to play, we'd be complaining about that. Escape scenarios tricky because if you, I feel like the balance, the difficulty balancing escape scenarios must be one of the hardest to get right because if you always have the rule, if anyone dies, you're done. So I love it. No, I love it. I do. I don't like that dying is built into a couple of characters a little bit. Right. That makes it a bit rough. Yeah. That's true. But I do like the whole, you can't just blow your load and everyone else. It's a tempo thing. Yeah. No, no. Yeah. You're right. It is good. And yeah, I just wonder how hard they can push those scenarios. Right. Like the only other one I could think of that's an escape that was really, really close. There's a couple, but the catch one. Now, I wonder, we also had a really weird challenge card on that one. Right. Because that was the reverse initiative order one, which was really bad with because they go so late all the time. So that made that a lot harder. And then we also had a couple of instances, like I think that was another one where Phil got massively booked, but then managed to escape out, which was great. But yeah, that's another one that was like, here's an escape scenario, but with this like bulky objective and these bubbles and all this kind of stuff, but it was fun. But I can see if we'd failed that because of those reasons, we would have hated it. Yeah. So yeah, I think you're right. Like, no, I think you're all right. Oh, okay. Thank you. That's all right. We can both be right. That's nice. So there's so many people listening to me like you guys are both so wrong, like. Yeah. So. Yeah, definitely. No. Yeah, definitely. I forgot to copy and paste my main marks. Oh no. So here it is. Mark's thoughts, the amount of monsters in the first room filled me with joy. I thought we were in for an action packed whackerman stack an adventure, which was partially true until the last room where we worked out, we could just jump to the end. The phasing between rooms was interesting from the admin of the idol. Oh, sorry, it was interesting, but the admin for of the idol was a bit clunky fun. Not much admin. Fairly straightforward. Yeah. Pretty much. All right. Well, oh, he hasn't got back to me yet, so okay. Not fun. Oh, it's shit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, almost no. Uh, yeah, I think it's fine if you survive the first room. It's whether or not he agrees on to a ice race elite one. Then he's cooked. Yeah. Totally. That's probably the biggest concern I would have. And then of course, he wouldn't make it out, but obviously we, if we push through the scenario as fast as we did, he would still be playing catch up. Yeah. So we made escape before he gets to the end of the corridor and is greeted by all of the mobs. Yep. Yep. Uh, so not the best, not the worst. No. Uh, actually there'd be cool if they're out of their special rule just in case you pull all me on it. And it's like all me must escape as well. I was just thinking that yes, is that something that people would hate and the answer would be yes. Oh, yeah. I wrote down, but he'll only head to an escape tile if there are no monsters within range two or something like that. So you can kind of clean up around him a little bit so that he's not sitting there agrowing, trying to kill everything. He will kind of run towards the escape or you can give him the idol and he will just stop. Uh, let's see. How did you go with your trial? Um, I completely forgot about it for the second week in a row. And just as we were starting, I was like, Oh yeah, I forgot about this all the way through the last night. And I actually spoke about how I forgot about it and this time I wasn't going to forget about it. And then about, uh, this time it was about halfway through. I realized that yeah, about three or four turns in probably I reckon I was like, yep. Got about it again. I'm wondering whether or not you've gone deep on the cover. And it's literally like, don't talk about your trial or pretend you forgot it three weeks in a row. You can complete your trial and you are, you are selling it. I am. Yeah. Yeah. I wish that was it. Yeah. So, uh, but this week there is a, uh, I'm going to say at least a 10% chance I remember to do it. We will all remind you to do it, please. We usually play at about six o'clock or Australian Eastern time. Um, if you're free around that time, just shoot me a discord message, right? Just be like, Hey, trial. That's it. That's all you have to say. Trial. Right. I'm more than happy to receive spam to remember my trial. I actually think because of how much we have joked about this, you will not forget. I think that my brain will do that thing where it's right, a note, your area of play areas right there. I'll forget to read the note. Like, so Mark completed his second trial. Yeah. He's just a trial. This one. So this was called prediction. Yes, we're having a trial chat. So if I haven't got your trials yet, uh, you can listen if you want, uh, at the start of each scenario, predict the number of rounds needed to complete the scenario by placing that number of damage tokens in front of you. And you have passed this trial when you complete a scenario in the predicted number of rounds or one fewer than the predicted number of rounds, which when he revealed that and revealed how many tokens he had, it kind of blew my mind how close, well, sorry, he got it. Yeah. Like it blew my mind that he was able to cause that's not, that is sort of in your control. And there was maybe some of that apprehension towards the end because I think he was, you know, not a hundred percent sure where he was at and what round we're at because obviously X Haven's also tracking two different rounds, um, because of the idle mechanic, but I mean, it's a cool trial. That's a really cool trial. Yeah. It's like trading as hell though. Yeah, especially when you, when you get it, relying on other people, that's the part, right? Like if it was just you, you'd be like, well, I can kind of plan around this and do it. But imagine that you were doing a, uh, like I like that from a trial perspective again, if you're not telling anybody, but you were doing an escape scenario and you picked 15 and it was round 14 and then everyone escapes and then one person, you figure it makes their way up. But they're not there yet and then it's round 15 and they go, oh, I can get XP here and you'd be like, escape. Like, no, no, I need to get XP. Like, no, you need to escape. Like you'd have to convince that person that they should leave or kill the last monster or in the scenario in whatever way without saying anything. Right. Like I really like that idea of like, Hey, you know, almost go like, Oh, come on. I just want to go home. Okay. Can you just finish the scenario? Like, just don't worry about XP. It's, it's, it's fine. They need it. They're like little party game mechanics built into the game. And I like the fact that it's, they, I think they mentioned, you know, these trials will make people question what the hell you're doing. Yeah. But because you're collectively understanding that trials are in the game and you've got one as an example, because you've got your own, you kind of can't question anything. Yeah. You kind of go, Oh, it's a bit weird. Like that exact scenario, you painted out. What if it was the reverse and Mark was like, this is round 15 or whatever. I'm on the escape bit. What are you guys doing? And we're like, we got time. Yeah, we're flying. We got some XP. Yeah. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. 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I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I think one in particular wasn't draw the line if this is making sense. This is actually quite a lot. Is this the quiz? This is the quiz. It's more the thing where that was rated 2. Now the scale is 0.5 to 3. I'm not going to delve any more into it. It's just you will ask. I will answer and you can deduce what the scale means. Oh, so I have to figure out what the scale means. Yeah, kind of. So where a monster sits? It's between 0.5 and 3. Yeah. What? Okay. 0.5 and 3. And Algox Snowspeaker is a 2. Is a 2? Okay. All right. So starting this off, we have Algox. Guard. 1. 1.5. Oh. Okay. 1.5. And these ones are only none of these mobs are in Gloomhaven either. Algox Archer. 5. Close. 1.5. What's the scale go up to again? 3. Oh, okay. Algox Priests or they used to be called Charmon. Apparently. They listed the Charmon on the website, which is pretty cool. It's going to be real awkward because they didn't write down what they are. Yeah, maybe. I didn't write down what they were for some reason. Algox. I like this, like, who wants to be a millionaire? I think it's all a question. And they're like, I've been like, I don't know. I don't know. I guess you're saying pretty clever. Yeah. Algox Scout. 1.5. 0.5. Sing a theme here. Algox iSpeaker. 2. Ah, he's clever. So why do you think that is? Because they're like a boss. Kind of. Yeah. Like, like a, like a, like a lieutenant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Living doom. Right. Why? I don't know. Why? So you're not trying anymore. No, I am. They're the most boss monster we fought that is not a boss. Why are you saying polar bears can't be lieutenants? I picked five. Okay. That's fair. So you went full to boss. Straight to boss. Yeah. Because they were. Living doom is two. Okay. Okay. So same as polar bear. Frozen corpse. Two. 1.5. Okay. You've got some right. Ice Wraith. Three. Two. Okay. Yup. Nice dance. Borrowing blade. Two. 1.5. Alright. Snow imp. 1. 0.5. They're low. Chaos demon. Three. Two. And what I found interesting about chaos demon because I was like, ah, aren't these in gloom haven? No, no, no. But I played the digital version which incorporated draws the line as well. So I was like, I'm pretty sure I've seen these online. And then I checked the gloom haven database. There is none. But then draws a line that they're introduced. So I was like, ah, that makes sense. But two. Uh, lurk of mind snipper. Two. 1.5. I love quizzes. Uh, lurk of claw crusher. 1.5. Two. I don't know if that, because this is a difficulty scale or, or apparently. So claw crushers are at two and mind snippers are at a 1.5. I mean, we put them in the bin, everyone kept telling us we're wrong. The claw crushers. Yes. No, they're mind snippers. Oh, we didn't put mind snippers in the bin. But we joked about them being in the bin. Because we didn't get to see them do their cool stuff. Yeah. We could just ignore it. We could just ignore it. Yeah. Uh, lurk of wave thrower. 1. Wow. You got that all right. Yeah. Because we think that they're really annoying. Because they've booked out one scenario, but they're actually fine. Lighting L. 0.5? Yeah. It's like, hey, so he's getting in now. You pretty much know the rest now. So priming. 1. Mm-hmm. Okay. A bail scout. Oh, quite five. 1. We're close. That close. That close goes. 0.5. Ruined machine. 1. 0.5. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Steel Tomaton. What's that? Steel Wolf. Oh, um, two. Three. Three. Okay. What? Yeah. It's funny because I was talking the dwarf about this bit that I was putting together. And he said the scaling is 0.5 to 2. And as I'm doing this, there's a three in there. And I was like, oh, Steel Tomaton is a three. And he didn't know. I thought you said it was 0.5 to three. I did. No, he told me. He told me. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, there's a three in there, and it's a Steel Tomaton. Robotty Bolt shooter. 1.5. 1. Okay. Uh, Flaming Blade Spinner. 1.5. 2. You're losing it. Yeah. And finally, trike thing. 2.5. 1.5. There is no 2.5, guys. Obviously. Obviously. It just goes straight from two to three. Okay. So dwarf in his chat to me was talking about the difficulty scaling, right? For, for this segment that I was doing right now, trying to get an understanding of how it all works. And it's kind of like bonds is a worth, well, we mentioned 0.5 to two, but it's to three. And elites are double the normal, right? So a standard room has three points or four. You can't remember, and I'm not too sure because I didn't design any part of the game. But when you're populating a room and you're designing the actual scenario itself, on average, you kind of go three points worth of enemies per character. And that's kind of three to four. That's how you kind of populate it. Yeah. And then of course you give and remove depending on special rules and bits and pieces that are there. I didn't know this. And I think that that's really cool. Obviously, they needed to have some kind of a system when they're trying or some kind of rule to govern how they're going to populate it so that it doesn't become stupid and you're not just guessing how difficult something's going to be. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I guess you have to hand something over to guest designers, right? Like you can't just say, hey, design a thing. And then they send it through and go, that's too hard. That's too easy. That given people some kind of like rule to go by. Yeah. Yeah, cool. Yeah, definitely. And Riceman also chipped in a little bit and said that the number that Saph of our game led to the monsters, he believes that those are the challenge weight given to a single standy. So imps are low because you need a bunch of imps to make up the same challenge of a living doom, which is, which is cool. There's guidelines for the total challenge number of a given room such that the monsters, you know, it should roughly equal that number. And this is why you so frequently see like living dooms alone or without much support while archers at 1.5 are more numerous. Yeah. And living dooms also, not that we've seen that lately, especially with the ones that we kept up in the scenario a few weeks back, but they summon living spirits, which I keep forgetting about. So it's kind of like simple. Like it's math. Yeah. Which I forget is an integral part of all game design. And I look at someone like Rina Canizia, who designed modern art and tigers and refrigerators and even high society, he's a, he's got, he's a doctor of math, right? So this is why his games are so simple from a rule set. It's so clean and come together so well. And I'm like, oh, you just throw math in it and it just makes a great game. Yeah, that's it. And I feel like if they teach kids that you can go into game design by getting good at math, more people would do math. Maybe. Yeah. Okay. Because I just, I needed that kind of motivation when I was in school. They were like, hey, you can design a board game. You didn't even know board games existed. That's true. I probably will still be where I'm at. Sorry. Yeah. Interesting. Now that's really cool. And I'm glad I got them all wrong. I am also glad you got them all wrong, but I think it just kind of leads to, um, it motivates me to come up with more quizzes. If you have a quiz idea and you want to see guys put on the spot, or if you want to see me put on the spot and you can send it to gas, we can organize that as well. Uh, yeah. Anything, anything in the game provided it's not too hard or spoiler, I don't care if it's hard. If it's difficult, if you want it, if it's so difficult, it's not interesting to listen to. That's stupid. But, uh, yeah, if it's tricky, it's not, it's just not spoilers. It's fine. One of the email, um, emails that came through actually gave me a great idea, which I might do next week. Um, looking forward to that one. Okay. I'll just let you know. Just drop and break crumbs. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, but my zero prep. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do you have anything you want to add? No, no, I think I'm all right. I'm enjoying the shards at the moment. Uh, it's, that's been pretty cool. Um, I think I'm named it not, oh, so I was named in that. Yeah, we can be now. Yeah. I'll think of a name. Uh, I think I am keen to bump up the difficulty again. Yeah. That's the other thing, actually. It's, um, that's what I meant at the beginning where we updated difficulty and it's too early to say whether or not just obviously because of the ending of that scenario. Yeah. I'm a bit nervous because the next one's another escape and yes, just because again, I don't know what the escape is, what the rules going to be like and how we go through it. So I'm a bit nervous from that perspective, but I'm kind of hoping that if we bump the difficulty up, we'll be able to recapture some of the early stages of playing the game where it's not that it's so much that it's harder, but you need to think about your turns more. Very important point, it's, it's not going, like throwing an attack over here and standing in a certain position, you really have to plan kind of collectively how you're going to do this. And I think it gets us all talking and the tensions in the year and it leads to a great, a great scenario. Yeah. Because that's the thing at the moment, there isn't a lot of risk and reward because you can, we've pretty much been out of brute force our way through most of the things like taking damage is just discarding a card, like, you know, you can just pump damage and there's various ways that we get past those obstacles. But yeah, it would be good to go back to a stage where you have to consider something is going to attack for four or five next turn. You don't know when, right? So maybe you need to go early so that you can hit it and get away, right? Rather than just like, Oh, yeah, I'll just pick these cards because I want to do big damage if I get hit does matter, right? And that will be interesting too to see. Yeah, the stress over, you know, I get a, we get a couple of those moments like when I was trying to do my mastery on my astral a couple of weeks back, that tension of, you know, that next card coming up and what are they going to do and all of that? I like feeling a lot more of that. And sometimes in it, yeah, it's a cakewalk. It's like, what are they going to do? Don't really care. Yeah. And that's the thing is, I guess, and I just thought of this now, but this kind of a benefit from that might be that it makes my ability to look at the next card a little bit more useful. Because if it doesn't really matter when we don't care, and they're going to die, right? So it's like, Oh, well, like occasionally there's cards we care about like, Oh, are they going to go early or later? Are they going to do this really annoying card? But like for the most part, knowing that they're going to do a move three and attack five and it shifts 23 isn't that useful. Like people are just like, whatever, I'll go when I go and I'll get hit if I get hit. So yeah, it'd be really interesting, because there's no immunity to that using it on a boss. I think that's kind of where it'll really shine because, you know, like boss, special one, boss, special two are usually pretty impactful. Yeah, impactful. Yeah. And just knowing which one was coming, yeah, could make all the difference. Yeah. It's a good point. So when we do find a boss is when was last time. Oh, it might have been oos. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. We will wrap it up there. For this week. Join us next week as we hit up scenario 133 and finally, hopefully add to a stable of crazy critters. I've been your host, Eddie, I've been joined again by gas and rumor when it comes to rolling terribly. It's all there is. Yeah. a. a. a. a. a. a. a. a. a. a. a. a. a. a. a. (upbeat music)
