(upbeat music) Entrepreneurship, small business creation, home ownership and collaboration have always been the backbone of our local economies. With all of that under threat and communities fighting against further division, conversation mill turns on the mic for everyday difference makers in our local communities. Whether they be farmers, mayors, builders, creators or doers. Every week, join me, Rebecca Dale, here in conversation. (upbeat music) Being an entrepreneur always comes with its challenges. But choosing an industry like non-alcoholic craft beers and cocktails comes with extra challenges. Like getting those coveted slots in coolers and on shelves. Laurel Herrop joins me in conversation today to discuss what inspired her to launch her NA beer line, "Busty Lush" and shares the need to knows for others thinking of entering this space. Breaking into a notoriously hard industry like beverage requires a great tasting product, compelling branding, persistence, and as Laurel says, a little bit of luck. Join us now in conversation. (upbeat music) - What is "Busty Lush"? - So, "Busty Lush" is, it's woman-owned, of course. I started it in, gosh, it was like three years ago now. Yeah, three years this year. It's a non-alcoholic beverage company. We currently offer three styles of NA beers and two mocktails. - I want to get into more of your background too as we go through, but I thought we could start kind of where you are now and then work our way backwards to that. What inspired or what kicked off "Busty Lush"? - So, I was pregnant with my second child. And I was honestly missing the taste of craft beer. So, I decided to try some of the non-alcoholic beers that were out there. And this was like 2019 or 2020. So, the landscape of what's available for non-alcoholic anything pretty much was quite different than what I would have found today. But what I did find then left me wanting and made me think that there could and should be some better options out there. And there were two parts to this. One was the flavor, the quality and variety of what I had tried during that time. And the other being that the craft beer market in general has always seemed like it was for men. So, for me, I was trying non-alcoholic beers. But yeah, in general, being around craft beer, it's very masculine. And so, I was thinking about opportunities there and I thought that maybe there was a way to make this happen, that there could be this non-alcoholic brand, right? That spoke to women and also just had better flavors, better variety. You know, there could just be so much more there. I love that. It's pretty risky to start a beverage line, whether it is a craft beer, like very much in the vein of other craft beers or something more innovative, like what you're doing. What gave you the confidence that you could start this and make something of it? - Yeah, so having done it now, like you're entirely right. And I think honestly, it was maybe perhaps because I was naive and that information, not knowing it was a blessing. So, a slight ignorance there for sure. So, you know, I just didn't know a lot about like, having a business that had inventory or like having what it meant to like have five styles of beverages, right? What like financially it took to sit, you know, I just didn't think through all this stuff. So, I think the confidence part always comes back to my upbringing and my parents' encouragement and like their entrepreneurial way of life. I like to see the positives and exciting possibilities and like building and creating things and like doing something, you know, that's your own. And I guess perhaps to my downfall, I am a pretty risk-averse with ideas and dreams and I kind of always follow my gut. So, that being said, I, you know, it just was really excited about the idea and I just saw it happening. I wanted to go for it. You mentioned your parents in there, what do they do as entrepreneurs? Or you kind of mentioned their entrepreneurial spirit. Yeah. What were they doing or what did they do that inspired you? Yeah, so my parents own a like small trucking business and a small farm. So, you know, just a really hardworking couple and great influence on me. And I got to watch them, you know, just make our world amazing based on what they were doing and all their hard work. That's awesome to be raised with that kind of like inspiration right there. Did you have to work in any of those businesses when you were growing up or just around the yard? I guess, yeah, they were always very much into us doing chores and helping out, but there wasn't too much I could do on the trucking side, but I did learn a lot about trucking, like a lot about and that carried over into my other businesses. That's definitely where I learned the basics from that. And you mentioned having other businesses and I know you have a company called Laurel Environmental Group. It has a very unique recycling program from what I understand. Can you share what that company is and what you do? Yeah, absolutely. So I've owned a recycling business in, it's like a really niche industry for the past 13 years. The company focuses solely on large scale LED street lighting conversions, like essentially cities, counties, utilities, whoever owns the street light poles that you see daily. They've been converting the old street lights into more energy efficient technology, LED, for mainly the past two decades, I'd say. So just like the, your big old TVs to have, now we all have flat screens, like that's always the story I tried to tell people's like, okay, well, you had those for a while and they're gone. It's like any technology, the old street lights still are out there and they're still being replaced. So it's been like this big overhaul. It's not just in our country, it's in other countries too, replacing these by tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands in what the cities and counties and utilities do is they get massive reduction in maintenance costs and energy savings. So my role or our business is simply to facilitate the proper recycling and disposal of all the removed high pressure sodium and low pressure sodium street lights. As the contractors install the new ones, we come and we take the old ones. - Wow, what got you into that niche recycling? - That is a long, really odd story, but kind of right place at the right time, someone my mom knew introduced, it was a relationship sort of deal and that's how it happened, it's a long story. But yeah, it was really right place at the right time. - And that, I mean, I know this isn't like one of the questions that I had kind of sent over to you, but that is like part of being a successful entrepreneur or two is just like being ready when the opportunity strikes or like being in the right place. It's not always being the best in your field per se or probably just planning or whatever. - Totally, right? Yeah, you like see an opportunity and you take it and yeah, I guess that's what it was. I think I was young and this idea was presented to me. I was like, hmm, well, like, you know, I could see it and so I just went for it. What's education or skill sets did you have to have to start that environmental group? - There's like, I guess, yeah, there are a couple pieces of that for me. I was in my late twenties, you know, so I was still pretty young and I was fresh out of college. I did get a business degree from the University of San Francisco and I was maintaining my childhood dreams of becoming a fashion designer. And my mom would tell you that I was always like an entrepreneur trying to create small businesses throughout my childhood and like I'd sell my chickens eggs to friends and family and neighbors, like tried to create a fruit smoothie business. And then later in high school, I ended up creating a small like fashion label and was sewing purses and different clothing items. So yeah, like I said about the recycling business, I was in kind of the right place at the right time. I could see the need for the growing industry and like how, you know, that it was a niche and like those businesses really, really are important. Those are the ones that you see make it. There was a specific need and a purpose. So I guess I can go back to my upbringing and thank my parents. Like I had a very humble upbringing. I watched them work hard, you know, in sort of, you know, trucking business and a farming business. So I wasn't, you know, I wasn't, it didn't bother me any of that. This business was scrap metal, you know. I'm recycling. So yeah, I ran collegiate track in cross country and that sport definitely taught me a lot about myself and you know, how if you work hard, you know, what the benefits you can reap from really working hard. And so I guess I'm thankful for that, that piece of my, of my younger years as well. - Was there a lot of like hours of front put into this? Is it something that once you establish it and you get like a cadence to it that your time in the business kind of reduces or is this a really labor intensive thing at first that then you hire as it grows? How, I'm just kind of curious, is that for the recycling business? - Yeah. - Yeah, so the story with the recycling businesses, I had a couple of locations, like a couple warehouses and I had employees for a while. We did these really large projects and all of the lights would come through our facilities. And then when I got pregnant with my first child, I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I need to be around for the, I want to be here for my daughter. And so that was when I took a look at it and I was like, how do I keep doing this, but not be there? And so I started figuring out a way to run it from the top and be in a management position and plug in these other companies locally. And it let me expand the business. And so then all of a sudden we were able to do these projects in other states and not have a location, not have a facility, right? Not have employees there. And so then I was able to like look at the small economy and say, okay, how do I bring in these other businesses in these areas and then plug them all in to do the recycling with us? And that's where the business is today. - That's awesome. And it's like you killed several birds with one stone. - Not like you again, maybe. - Yeah, that's awesome. So what knowledge, what skill set did you take from running that business and bring over to busty lush? - Okay. - Well, there's definitely a number of things that translated from one business to the next. Like the biggest skill that I carried over was the knowledge of logistics and freight. And you know, so that starts from my childhood knowing like just basics about trucking and from my parents. But then I had to use it all the time in the recycling business. And then there's just been an incredible amount of learning with busty lush. They are truly just polar opposite businesses. You know, I'm grateful for my business education to help me with, you know, very basics. But from there, I kind of feel like I started over again and learned a whole new business. - Yeah. You mentioned early on like flavors and in developing different flavors than what we see with craft beer. What went into, I guess, let me actually split this in two questions. What were the flavors you were looking for? First of all, that you felt were missing craft beer. So I feel like I didn't even start with necessarily a flavor that was missing, you know, but I wanted the first. So when I started busty lush, I was like, oh, it's just gonna be non-alcoholic beers. You know, I didn't see this cocktail thing happening. But I wanted to do the first beer to be a blonde ale and for that to be like our core beer. And there's no reason for it to be a blonde ale. I loved it with, you know, the busty lush being a blonde and then the calling it. So the name started as she's golden, right? And I thought, okay, that's a easy, it's a really common beer that a lot of people like to drink. It's a sometimes maybe like a girl beer, but it would have mass appeal. So I wanted that to be like the core beer. And then from there, I was like, how do we do like season all spring summertime beer and then a winter, you know, fall or winter beer? So that's where the, she's passionate, which is like a tropical kettle sour and we use real passion fruit in that. Came to be the like spring summer beer. And then she's divine, that was the non-alcoholic oatmeal stout and our winter beer. So I thought these three beers will be the core lineup. You know, we've got seasonal beers, we've got this year round beer. And beyond that, like the idea I had for the stout was that I, you know, there's the part with pregnancy and then there's the part with nursing, right? Where you're, again, you're supposed to drink alcohol, but with an oatmeal stout, you know, people used to say like, oh, drink a stout and it'll boost your milk production, right? Well, that's not true, right? You're not supposed to drink alcohol. It's not good for you. But the beauty of the non-alcoholic stout is right that you're getting the barley and that's great. And then I wanted to add fenugreek. I don't know if you're familiar with fenugreek, I was like, well, how do we add like fenugreek? And the people, brewers use it for flavor sometimes, but also it, again, helps increase your milk production. So I was like, it's sort of funny. It's sort of awesome. I was like, you can make this thing the perfect, you know, breast milk, all right? - That's awesome. - Yes, and not everybody knows that was like the inspiration behind the stout, but yeah, that's where that oatmeal stout came from. That's awesome. I love that. What goes into formulating and then testing, even without flavors, these different recipes or if you are adding a flavor or another ingredient, what is that process? So I've been very fortunate with that. Like there isn't a whole lot of, the mocktails are different. That's a different process that we're doing using a lab that helps with that where we can test the flavors, go back and tweak them a little bit. But the beers, I'm very fortunate to help. My husband is a brewer. I want a different brewery. And so I had him write the three recipes for beers. That was with the three core beers. I was right from the start. I'm like, I need these three beers. I need you to help me write recipes, get it writing recipes. And he honestly nailed them all three right on the head. We didn't make any changes to them ever. They were really, really great. Yeah. So maybe luck, luck, but also skill there for sure. Not my skill, I can't take credit for that part. Now that you're producing at a bigger level, how does that change that original formula? Is it just upping it? Like, what, is there more quality control that goes into that then? No, they can kind of just scale it. And we don't make the batches honestly any bigger than we ever did. So our recipe has really changed. But yeah, they just, they can, when it gets larger, they can just scale that formula. Were there any brews that you tried that were just a bust or you just tried those three, nailed it? And we're like, let's run? Or were there other things that you tried? But you're like, oh, we're not doing this. This is not what I thought. Right. So we haven't, we didn't even experiment with any other recipes on the beers. Like I did those three and I never picked a third style to come out with 'cause the beers are hard to, it's hard to release a new beer. You know, I thought maybe we do an IPA or like, you know, I've tossed around ideas with different styles, but then I jumped into the mocktails. And I get a lot more excited about the mocktails and the beers. So I'd like to keep moving forward with those. We have a third one coming out this year. So I've honestly just kind of put all my focus into those. They really mesh well with the brand. The, you know, girls really like the mocktails. And I can't help it. The brand is, you know, the brand is pretty feminine. Yeah. I'm just plenty of men that appreciate it. But I think our market is really geared towards the mocktails and I've had a lot of fun with those. In what are each of the flavors of the mocktails? So we have a lavender margarita and it's a purple in color and it gets the color from butterfly pea flower tea. Have you ever seen that? So when it, when it's a lime, it actually turns it to be a purple color. So it's very pretty. And then the grapefruit paloma, she's glamorous. Same thing, it gets colors from natural, like, basically it's vegetables, like radish, I believe, is where the red color comes from. But yeah, just a nice refreshing summer, both of them, you know, really easy to sip on. They're really good. I'll have to send you some. You're gonna have to try them. Yeah. The branding, you've mentioned it a couple of times and it is, it's bright, it's exciting. It looks artistic, it's really engaging. Like when you walk by it on a shelf, you're like, oh, that's busty lush. Like you can buy very easily. And that's how we connected 'cause I like walked by it in my local market, was like, I know that brand, who do I know connected to that brand? And see often a little bit about that branding choice and kind of what went into creating that brand. Yeah, sure. So, you know, the packaging design credit definitely goes to like two really awesome women that I've been blessed to work with. I was a long-time instill, I'm a long-time fan of Chambers Estelle, she's a Charleston-based artist who does these like incredible portraits of women. So you see a lot of them on our cans, but I knew her art long before I started this. And so when I was getting the first beer going, I reached out to her and I asked her if she would consider doing the art for the cans, you know. I was sort of like, oh, she's not gonna say yes, but I'm gonna ask, you know, if she says yes, then this thing is a go, we're gonna do this. And so I wanted each drink after she said yes, you know, I was like, I wanted each drink to be the face of the can, really. Like, you know, and I wanted each one to be its own portrait, right? So each time we would do a different portrait. She captures, she like really captures something fierce and confident in like their faces. And I just love that it was like everything I wanted to say about the brand. So she said yes, and then I knew from there the brand was born. And so the other super important part of our package design is my good friend, Ashley Little, who owns a little print design. And she lives here locally near me, good friend, a long time, but she does all of the awesome graphic design in our packaging and our website and anything else you see. Very talented, both of them. And then lastly, you know, our photography is super important to me and somehow that became part of the puzzle that I didn't really see happening, I'm very lucky to have an awesome photographer, Lance Gerber, who kind of takes everything that the brand is visually and turns it into this like super artful, beautiful display. You know, everybody really appreciate it. So it's been awesome just to have those three people. Like again, this is one question that I wasn't planning on throwing at you, but since you're talking about these great connections with these people that help create the brand, the artists you just reached out to, but how did you build these other relationships? Was it purely just networking? Have you worked with these individuals for a long time? Because I think, you know, small business owners or business owners are always looking for like the right fit for their business, right? Like you mentioned, they kind of see your vision, they get your aesthetic and what you're going for. How did you find the right people for these jobs? - I know, that's again, maybe a little bit of luck. So when Chambers said yes, I had just asked my friend, I wasn't even sure she had never done a can. She'd never done beer design. She did a lot of like greeting cards and whatnot of her own stuff. And I was like, do you think you'd wanna do this? Like would you like to try like could you? And she was like, yeah, I actually always wanted to do a beer label, like I always wanted to be a fan. So then she took a shot at it and she's incredible. And so that was knowing her and being a good friend with her, I just wanted her to do it. And then when she did it, I was like, gosh, this is like better than I could have imagined. You really like put it all together. And then from there, no, everybody, honestly, we're just new relationships after that. Nobody that I knew, mm-hmm, that's awesome. - Yeah. - Talk to me a little bit about what else is contributing to the growth of Busty Lush. You have a great brand, you're women-owned, it's not alcoholic, it's kind of innovative in this space. What else is contributing to the growth? - I just see Busty Lush really being much bigger than it is right now. And I think I kind of saw it right from the beginning. I was like, oh, this could be, this really could make it. This could really be good. You know, it tastes good, people get excited about it. They love the branding. I think that I don't know how to do any kind of work unless I'm building something and continuing to grow it. And, you know, that it's part of me. And so I definitely have this attachment to it where I want to see it, I want to see it get bigger, I want to see it successful. And I think I'm also proud, you know, I'm like proud of every part of it. I'm proud of like the art and the people behind it. And I'm proud of how it tastes. And I know that it's like good for people and we're doing something that in this whole non-alcoholic movement, right? That's encouraging people to make better lifestyle choices or drink less, you know. So just all around, I think it's just like a positive experience and the people in this industry are just very, very nice and very appreciative. And yeah, it's just like a very happy, it's a happy business. There's a, don't get you wrong, there's plenty of stuff that isn't fun and isn't, is just like running a business. But yeah, overall it's, it's pretty awesome. What kind of reaction do you get from people or what kind of feedback or reviews have you gotten from people that like find this product and try it? - See, that's what's crazy. I, besides Amazon, where you're gonna get like, anybody who's paying, everybody else is just, I like almost too over the top, nice, right? Like get really excited about the packaging. And then they're like, "Oh, this is like the best NAB I've ever had." Or this is like the, you know, this is my favorite NA drink ever, like drinking the mocktail. So just, I've heard just endless, really nice, amazing, excited things. And mainly women, but not always, not always women. I get a lot of really great feedback from men too. - That's awesome. - And a lot of the people, you know, a lot of the people in, I guess in this space are completely do not drink, right? They're sober and so all of these beverages have been very exciting and life-changing to them. - As the market has grown, they used, you know, they're always just, I see a lot of posts about, oh, you know, the non-alcoholic option is a soda, right? Or a lemonade. But now like these menus are getting these really cool, non-alcoholic drinks and they're just like, every time they're posting about excited and grateful. So it's very cool. - It is really cool to see, I do drink alcohol, but it's really neat to see yours and other non-alcoholic beers become more popular. Like my dad has a heart issue and so he doesn't drink alcohol anymore, not that he ever drank a lot, but even like one, I'll kind of like, make him feel weird and so he doesn't anymore. And so now that there's more options for people across the spectrum to have an NA beer, enjoy themselves, like, not feel like they're missing out because they like that flavor of beer is just so incredible. I'm so thankful for that. - Yep, I agree. There's just like, there's so many reasons. There's so many reasons people don't drink or just want to drink less, right? Or like just take a break or just there's, but it's all good, right? It's all positive and everybody who drinks needs a break too. So, yep, no, I love that. What's your number one piece of advice? And maybe it's hard to pick one piece of advice for people wanting to create a brand in the beverage space specifically. Okay, so I had to think about this question 'cause he's certainly this one. And I honestly hate to say it, but I would say I would go back and I would have taken out a loan right from the beginning or I would have gotten investors or outside funding. I think that's one of the things I'm working backwards against now is not having the cash on hand, maybe make different decisions that maybe I wouldn't have done if I had some money ready to go and anticipated how expensive it is to have a multi-product line and hold inventory and make all these drinks. And if you're trying to get your costs down, the amount of everything that you need to purchase, again, it was totally different from my other business, which was no inventory. You weren't buying things to create a product. So it's just crazy how expensive it is. And yeah, so I think I would say, go find some funding, don't take out a loan and don't be afraid of it. But you just like, you kinda need it in your back pocket. I think it slowed me down a little bit. - That's great advice. And that's like, you're right, it is unusual advice to hear people say go get a loan, but it's true, it's good advice. - Right, unless you have, unless you've got a whole bunch of savings set aside and yeah, you have the money available, right? Then yeah, all that. But it is, it's just, you know, it's expensive and it's a little bit stressful, so. - How did you sneak in another question in here, but how did you get space on the shelf for this product? 'Cause that's really what I, from what I understand, the toughest part of being in the beverage industry is like, getting somebody to take, somebody else's can't off and slot yours there. So how did you work with distributors to get that slot? - So that part is still like an ongoing, oh gosh, always a fight, right? You're always trying to get some shelf space. I got pretty lucky in the beginning. I think a few people recognize that the brand is right, it stands out, like you didn't look at it and say, oh, this is really cool and then you taste it and it's really good. So I had a few great opportunities right away. Whole Foods is one of them that was just right away on board with being supportive. They kind of went all in on bringing all the beers in. That was really cool. I got the product in front of those buyers myself directly. So the ones that I got lucky with Sprouts for a minute there too, same thing, got the stuff in front of her, the buyer directly, found who she was and reached out. And then from there, in your area, my distributors, there's some of my distributors do just a lot for me. They really go out and sell it. They know their area and their customers and they have been amazing. But yeah, that's what it's like. You've got to find the person, you've got to go right to them. You've got to tell your story, right, bring your product. So yeah, some of that, that is like the person, the actual buyer, like getting to them. - Did you have connections with any of those buyers or did you just like link and stock them, find a way? - Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty good at finding those addresses when I do. No, I didn't know any of them. Did not, the Whole Foods, no, Bevmo, and we have this store called Bevmo. You've probably never heard of it, but it's, no, same thing. And I don't have too many big retail, you know, big, a lot of shelf space, but local, localized markets and small bottle shops, restaurants, bars, those ones, very fortunate to have, but no, I just, you know, I found their names, went for it, told the story, got them some product to try. - That's awesome. I think it is really good for entrepreneurs or people who have even been small business owners for a while to hear like, you just go for it. I think we get like that limiting belief of, well, why are they gonna pay attention to me? I'm too small, or this is my first run of something, or I just started, I'm only a year in, I can't reach out to this buyer, or this whoever, or this connection. You can, you just gotta grab good story. Like, what story are you telling? - Yep, right, exactly. Yeah, you gotta go for it. I mean, gosh, you're not, you're just gonna have to go for it. It is hard, I hate selling. I think that's my thing. It's like, I really don't like to have to sell it. I want you to just see it. I want you to try it. I want you to wanna try it without me having to tell you why, but yeah, I do believe that that part, those people, you know, that's how you make it. If you can't tell your story right away, and get yourself be brave enough to be in front of those people. Yeah, it's not gonna work out. And then, what would just be your number one piece of advice for entrepreneurs, small business owners in general? I guess I thought my piece of advice would be, and I guess this is pertinent to both of my businesses, or it's just maybe the way I look at business is like staying lean and mean, you know, and keeping your overhead slow so that you can be flexible. Like, if something happens, you know, start small and build up and like don't scale too quickly. Like, scale it slowly and build a really great product. And then like, you know, just move and grow slowly. I guess I think that makes it possible to weather some storms and keep moving forward. You know, but I guess that's my personal outlook on the two businesses I've had. I've tried to always keep everything very lean and mean, and just myself, you know, always working on it. So I just, I know what I know, you know, I'm not any kind of phenomenal entrepreneur, but that would be my advice. Well, 13 years with Laurel Environmental Group, I mean, that's a really great run and a niche space. And then to carve out this almost new space, really innovative space in the NA beer is really incredible. So I think you're, you know, stay lean and mean and grow slowly as working very well. - Thank you. - Thank you. - Thank you so much for joining me in conversation and sharing what you have going on with Busty Lush, but also a little bit of background of kind of where you came from and what's next for Busty Lush, what's coming up in the next year or so. - I'm hoping that new mocktail is going to be ready in a few months. Yeah, I'd like that to be ready by end of summer. We've got some other plans for maybe some different beverages they're working on. We're looking into some other things. So yeah, we'll just keep going with it. We're trying to expand. We need to get into some other states. I need a lot more distribution. We've got, yeah, endless plans to keep growing, but Amazon has been awesome and been very excited about that. Yeah, and just seeing all these new non-alcoholic bottle shops popping up there everywhere. There's just one opening all the time. There's a new one opening. Oh my gosh, it's crazy. They're opening all over. So that's pretty exciting too, just to keep seeing it grow. - Yeah. And you mentioned Amazon that we can buy your product on. Are there other places? I know you're out in California. I'm here in South Carolina. I found you in our local-- - Swamprout here? - Yeah, Swamprout. Is there any other place where a majority of our listeners might be able to grab your stuff? - I mean, I don't want to sit there and say Amazon, Amazon's easy. And by you, I think we're in that total wine. - Okay, yeah. - We're happy to still have it be in the total wine. There's so many little bars and restaurants by you. I can send you, I'll send you a list. And then say, "Shay, have you ever heard of that?" - Yeah. - No. - Okay, so her box map carries our products. I'll get you a list. - Awesome. - Let's do some spots. I would love that and we'll share that with our listeners. - Thank you again so much for joining me in conversation. - Thank you. - And maybe we can do this again in a couple of years. - Yes, once good. - Talk about global distribution. - Yeah, right. Well, thank you so much. (upbeat music) - Thank you for joining me in conversation. To learn more about the show or to support our efforts to elevate our local economies by advertising or sponsoring the show, please visit conversationmill.com. The business practices discussed on the podcast and the opinions shared by guests and your hosts are for entertainment and educational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. There are no silver bullets in business or life and what works in one market may not work in another. Always engage legal or expert advice when making decisions in your business. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [MUSIC PLAYING]
