MK040 Sermons
Divorce - Part 1 (Audio)
as I often will eat a piece of toast and the bread that I eat because of the ingredients you have to keep it frozen, and so most mornings I have a loaf of frozen bread sitting on the counter and I'm trying to pry that frozen bread apart, and trying not to cut my thumb off or finger off in the process, but this bread is stuck together and it's usually not going to come apart very easily, but with a little bit of effort and a little bit of prying it comes apart, and this morning I want to talk to you about something that doesn't come apart and is designed not to come apart easily, and that's the subject of marriage, and you're like well that makes sense, why is that a hard subject to talk about? Well what we're going to talk about this morning is what happens when marriages don't stay together, and we're going to tackle the subject of what does God say about divorce, and this is a subject that for the 23 years I've been lead pastor here I've never spoken on before, and if I'm brutally honest with you I've avoided the subject. I've avoided the subject because for a long period of time I didn't really, I couldn't come to grips with what the Bible had to say about it, and that even became more complicated for me when I entered a season in my own life where some people that I knew and loved dearly entered that in their lives, and that further confused the words that Jesus had to say that we're going to look at this morning. And so we're going to take, and we're going to take some time this morning to dive into those words and to look at what they have to say, because the reality is, and I think we would all agree in this room this morning that no couple standing before a pastor envisions themselves being divorced. You envision yourselves riding off in the sunset forever. But unfortunately that's not what life has become. And the sad reality is, as I've looked at this and wrestled with this, what I'm becoming more and more convinced of is the church, the church's abandonment of God's ideal is left us where we are today, not the culture, not the culture. I don't expect people who don't care about God to act like what to do and pay attention to what God says, but there's a problem with the people who claim to know God and claim to follow God set aside what God has to say when it doesn't make them happy or becomes very inconvenient for them. And so this morning we're going to tackle a very difficult subject. And the reality is as broken marriage has affected all of our lives. For some of you it's affected you personally. You've had a marriage or two or three end in divorce. For some of you it's affected parents and grandparents or friends, co-workers, even people that you would consider brothers and sisters here at church. I was hit pretty strongly with this a few years ago when I was spending time with a young woman. In our church she was a teenager at the time and she was having some difficulty with her parents and I was meeting with her and talking with her about the struggles, especially with her dad. And as I was talking with her I just had this thought and I asked her I said you have a circle of girls at your friends at the local high school. Don't you? And she said oh yeah about six or eight of them. And I said out of that group I said how many of them have their mother and father still living at home and she said none of them. A few years later my son was finishing up or my son was playing midget football and we were at another team's home field and it was the last game of the season and that team was honoring the girls who were cheerleaders and the guys who were in the football program who had come through and this was their last year in this program and so they were recognizing them on the field in front of everyone and as they would recognize them their parents would walk out with them and as I watched the parade of parents who walked out with them three quarters of them had only one parent who walked out with them or multiple sets of parents who walked out with them. And it just had hit me again that the generation that is entering marriage has no picture of what God says it's supposed to be. And it's a hard issue for me to wait into because I've not experienced this in my own immediate family. I have grandparents on both sides who've been married 50 plus years parents on both sides have been married 50 plus years and I'm not at all suggesting that just because you stay married means that the marriage is great I'm not suggesting that at all but there's a longevity that I've been blessed to have experienced and haven't had to live in that. And so personally experiencing close to home for me no I haven't entered it. But I have had to walk down that road with people that I would consider very good friends who today I have no relationship with at all. And it may be the most difficult part of my job is to enter that with people when their marriage falls apart. This morning we're just going to tap into this subject and we're going to do so by looking at what Jesus had to say and trying to make some sense out of what he had to say about it. I'm fairly confident that you're going to walk away from today with questions unanswered. Unfortunately in this context I can't answer all of those questions. Don't hesitate to email them to me to see me in the back or Johnny in the front afterwards and talk with us about them. There may be questions that you're wrestling with because of where your own marriage is right right now or how to relate to someone else who's in a marriage that's really struggling. And I hope this morning you walk away with a clear sense of what God has to say about this and more than anything else a sense of hope. Because too often the church I fear has backed away from this issue hasn't entered into the issue hasn't said clearly what does God say about the issue and then lovingly and graciously walk with people through the issue no matter where they are in their journey. And at the end of the message this morning there's a couple that's going to join me on stage and talk about their struggles in which they didn't know if their marriage was going to survive and give you a glimpse into the journey that God has taken them on. So if you have your Bibles if you would turn with me to Matthew chapter 5, Matthew chapter 5 if you don't have a Bible our guys have some of them and they'll pass them out to you. Matthew chapter 5 our wireless connections working this morning if you have a wireless device you can connect that way as well. If you haven't been here with us we've been in a series of studies over the fall entitled sitting at the feet of Jesus and we've spent time looking at the at a message that Jesus presented called the Sermon on the Mount and in this message Jesus presented to the group of individuals that had started to follow him this is what life in my kingdom will be like. Jesus doesn't say the kingdoms here yet he said the kingdom is near it's close he said what do you mean it's close what's close because the king Jesus was here on the earth but he was not ruling as king and that's why it was only near it wasn't here yet and so he goes in these verses chapter five which we've been working our way through he's talking in these verses of what would life and what would relationships and who would be there in this kingdom and a few weeks ago we tackled the subject of anger and in looking at the subject of anger it's going to come up on the screens we said this I said this that resolve conflict it'll surprise you and make a mess of your life we talked about how important it is to tackle the issue of conflict and not ignore it and then the week after that we talked about the subject of lust and we talked about the subject of lust we talked about cutting off lust by appreciating instead of using that when I lust after another person in my mind and in my thoughts I'm using that other person to meet my own needs instead of appreciating them for the person that God has made in his image ironic that Jesus follows the subject of lust of longing for something that's not mine to have with the issue of divorce of a marriage coming to an end and what I challenge you about a few weeks ago is that you have to pay attention to anger in your life you cannot ignore that because underneath of lust is anger and underneath of divorce often is lust longing for something that I want that I cannot have even if that is a good marriage well if you're there in Matthew chapter five let's take a look at these verses that Jesus had to verse 31 and 32 it's been said anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce but I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife except for sexual immorality makes her the victim of adultery and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery man you read those verses and you're like wow that is really harsh that doesn't give him much space seems very narrow-minded doesn't give any room for what about what about what about what about in the culture that Jesus was living the Romans the Roman citizens they would often not marry the men would have sex with slaves prostitutes and then they would adopt someone at the end of their life to pass on their inheritance to the time of Jesus was a male dominated culture in which women had no voice and no respect were not respected and had no sense of dignity but the Pharisees as you may recall that we've been talking about they were the religious leaders they were the kind of the ones on the outside they were always looking for loopholes you see in the Old Testament God had given the 10 commandments and they'd given laws to live by remember there were no rules for the the nation of Israel to live as a nation and so Jesus gave them the Old Testament law the religious leaders came along and they added on top of that law thousands of interpretations of the law called the Mishnah also called oral tradition I gave an example of the oral tradition in our culture and one of those oral traditions is that you can drive five to seven miles over the speed limit and not get a ticket for it right at least you hope you don't but that's a tradition that we've passed along that that's not really the law is it it's an interpretation of the law that we live by and that's what the Pharisees were good at they made all kinds of interpretations of the law and they said this is how you live and they were very good at playing gotcha they would watch and watch and when you made a mistake gotcha they would come down on with you on you with a consequence for breaking that and so when Jesus showed up on the scene with the subject of anger with the subject of us he's saying it has been said pointing to sometimes parts of the law but sometimes how it had been interpreted and he confronts it and so look there in verse 31 he says I tell you anyone or he says it has been said anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce now the question is where did this come from where did this come from it's actually in the Old Testament and you might want to write this down maybe look at it a little bit later in Deuteronomy chapter 24 let me read you a couple of verses it says this it says if a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her and he writes her a certificate of divorce gives a tour and sends her away from his house and if she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man and her second husband dislikes or writes her a certificate of a divorce gives a tour and sends her from his house or if he dies the first husband who divorced her is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled and you're thinking wow that sounds like quite the soap opera but basically what Jesus is saying is he's saying if a man finds something that he does not like about a woman and writes her the certificate of divorce sends her way she gets remarried the same thing happens again he said she should not go back and remarry that first husband you say why did Jesus even come up with this idea of a certificate of divorce why did he come up with that in the Old Testament well the reason it was provided there it was actually a protection for the woman because the woman had no rights in that culture she had no privileges in that culture she could not write a certificate of divorce only the man could and so it was really to protect the woman whose husband might send her away for no cause other than his lack of enjoyment and find someone else you see what the certificate of divorce did is it documented her legal status as a divorce woman otherwise she would be viewed as a prostitute or someone who had committed adultery was just trying to run away and hide you see divorce in that day not unlike in our day but divorce in that day was especially devastating for a woman because when a man would be would would be divorced he might suffer some financial loss and he might be hated by her family but he could go on with his life whereas a woman who was faced with a certificate of divorce she would have to find a place to live maybe in the home of a generous relative who would be grudgingly give her a spot and then provide some food for her she might find a man who would marry her but often in that culture they would be viewed as damaged goods and survive in a very degraded relationship society would not allow her to support herself in a decent way she might choose to be a prostitute she would grow old with no children no social position and be viewed as a perpetual failure and so what Jesus did by offering this certificate of divorce he simply offered as a way of protection for a woman to have legal standing in that culture but when that what the religious leaders had done as they did with many things is they took that phrase in Deuteronomy 24 1 if she would be would be given the certificate of divorce for some form of indecency that occurred they created all kinds of rules around that and there were basically two camps on this there was one camp one Jewish scholar Hillel is his name and he said you can divorce your wife or anything even if she burned your dinner and you don't like the dinner that she made you could write her certificate of divorce she'd be out she'd be out there was another camp and that was the Jewish leader Shemae and he believed that divorce was only permitted if adultery occurred sex outside of marriage occurred and the Jewish leaders confronted Jesus about this a little bit later if you're there in Matthew chapter five turn no turn to Matthew chapter 19 just turn forward a few chapters Matthew chapter 19 and let's read what Jesus said in this confrontation with the Jewish leaders in this passage some Pharisees it says there in verse three came to test him and they asked is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason so they're saying isn't that the law remember the one guy Hillel he said you can divorce her for any reason he said isn't that the law so they come to Jesus with this question look what Jesus says haven't you read he replied that at the beginning the creator made them male and female and he said for this reason a male will leave his mother and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become flesh so they are no longer two but one flesh anybody have any idea where those words come from any idea where they come from anybody know first book in the Bible Genesis chapter one God created man he created woman in his image his likeness and then he brought them together and he said that they were going to become what one flesh no longer two but one flesh do you notice Jesus didn't answer their question he didn't answer their question he simply took him back to the beginning and said when we talk about this issue of marriage and we talk about this issue of relationship so we talk about the issue of marriage is breaking down and is this permitted or is this permitted or what about this situation what about this situation what about this situation Jesus always goes back and says we have to go back to the beginning and we have to remind ourselves what God has made one should not be undone what God has made one should not be undone my favorite illustration of this is peanut butter and jelly sandwich because in peanut butter and jelly sandwich you have what on one side you have peanut butter on the other side you have some nice strawberry jam right it's getting close to lunchtime in 1122 yeah so sorry about that not too bad in the first service they already break us but uh but what happens when you put a peanut butter and jelly sandwich together you know what happens to the peanut butter and the jelly on each side you know what happens you get jelly on the one side and a little bit of peanut butter on the other can't really take those things apart from each other unfortunately what has happened in our culture today and even within the churches we've we've come to believe that something that was too that became one that if it doesn't work out or if it's non-convenient or if he's not treating her the way that he should that it can just be undone and they can just go their separate ways and they'll be back to being one and Jesus says no it doesn't work that way it doesn't work that way because what God has made one can't be undone he then goes on to say look at the end of verse six therefore what God has joined together let no one separate where was the last time you heard that phrase where was the last place you heard it at a wedding right at a wedding what God has joined together let not me and separate what God has made one shouldn't be undone he then goes on to say look what the religious leaders tried next in verse seven they said why then did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away notice Jesus replied Moses permitted did Moses command they said he commanded Jesus said he permitted you to divorce your wives because of irreconcilable differences no because you couldn't get along no because he wasted all and spent all my money and got himself in debt no because of the hardness of their hearts because of the hardness of their hearts why does divorce happen because one person or both individuals hearts become hard initially to God and what his word has to say and then towards the other person and we get caught up in all these reasons what about this and what about this and what about this and God says it's because their hearts are hard it's because their hearts are hard and when a couple is when a couple is struggling and one spouse wants to work on the marriage and they come to me and I say to them pray that their hearts will soften because one of two things is going to happen either God's going to soften their heart and humble them and bring them on their knees before him or their heart will harden and take them far away and never want to return again it's an issue of the heart it's not an issue of their action it's an issue of their heart verse nine he says I tell you that anyone a divorces wife except for sexual immorality and marries another woman commits adultery the exact same thing that Jesus said in verse 32 of Matthew 5 exact same thing that phrase marital unfaithfulness is a word that simply means having sex with someone else outside of marriage you're like man Jesus puts the he the religious leaders like and any reason and Jesus is like this is the only reason why does Jesus even say that he says it because of the bond of intimacy that happens between a man and a woman and when that bond is broken something is deeply deeply severed the Pharisees continue to say what about what about what about and Jesus says the only time that this is permitted is when that marriage bond is broken said but john aren't there other situations and other circumstances and there are and those may be questions to have a conversation with outside of this but I think it's very important for us to sit with this and for us to wrestle with this because this is the exact passage that I didn't want to talk about for such a long time because I had friends and people that I knew and people that I loved and and and either a husband or a wife that were doing horrendous things and I thought God why do you want to you can't expect this doesn't make any sense but Jesus says you have to go back to the beginning for it to make sense you have to go back to the beginning because what God has made one shouldn't be undone and Jesus goes on to say in that verse 32 he says if if you marry someone who is divorced if we can go back to 32 on the screen there he says if you marry someone who is you actually are the one involved in adultery for a reason other than that some of you may be saying but john doesn't the Bible talk about other things and give some other allowances and and I certainly do believe it does but I think we have to stay focused right now on what Jesus has to say and wrestle with the discomfort of that because the lie that we have told ourselves and even come to believe in the church is that if I separate from this person and I go my separate ways then we can go back to being the way I was before and the truth is you cannot you have a life and a history and a relationship and if you have children you have the commitment there and we come to believe that as long as I'm pursuing my own happiness then that must be what God wants the reality is God doesn't care about your happiness God cares about you being holy not happy but we've told ourselves in the church that my happiness and going through pain avoiding the pain is what God wants from me and yet the tragedy of it is when we go through pain and we go through struggle we're closer to God than we've ever been in our lives but we want to run from that to a place that's going to make us happy and I'm not at all suggesting that that doesn't mean there's times and a season when there's things that are wrong that are occurring that you need to step away from that that's not what I'm suggesting but I'm trying to challenge us to look at the bigger picture to say what is it that we're avoiding and why Jesus teaching was not to make life miserable for someone in a bad marriage that's where you find yourself today the truth is he wants more than anything for you to have a relationship with a person that is committed to you and committed to him but what you have to enter to get to that place maybe something different than you ever imagined I know this raises lots of questions and I want to invite a couple to join me on stage have agreed to talk about their journey and talk about their challenges and as Matt and Esther come on the stage and join me here I've asked them to talk with you about their journey because sometimes when we look at what God's word has to say it can feel it can feel harsh and judgmental and narrow because there's not a real life story connected to it but I asked them if they would join me on stage and if they would share part of their story as a way for you to hear someone who has entered a very difficult place that they never expected them to be and to hear what God had to lead them through to where they are today so thanks guys for joining me on stage and I'll get let you get us started here Matt so tell us first of all how long have you and Esther been married I rehearsed this part we've been married 23 years and we dated for three before that so we've been together longer than you've been alive yeah okay no longer than we've been apart okay all right that's what I meant sorry that came along. Esther tell us how you met I remember very distinctly the first time that I ever saw him I was in South Florida at youth group on a Wednesday night early in September of my senior year of high school and I saw this kid walk by in the back hall with the door open with a black heavy metal t-shirt on earring and his ear long blonde hair and they're trying to picture that out. That's what they're trying to do. He did have hair at one time really lots of it actually and I was sitting with a friend and said do you know who that is and we were a youth group that was known for reaching out to kids on the fringe and being welcoming to them and so we both knew it would be our job to welcome him and did that and my friend Dave did and then Matt came up to me after youth group and said that he remembered me that he used to live next door to me when we were two three four five years old living on the beach in south Florida and that connecting point which I didn't believe him at that point he remembered he went home and got pictures which we have pictures of a problem the next time. I remember you but that connection point we were we were completely polar opposite individuals could not have been more different people but that connecting point ended up being a significant element that drew us together. So tell us tell us what was your family background as it relates to divorce before you got married Esther why don't you start with Ellen. I was adopted into a family that had a very strong value of marriage we all my aunts and uncles my grandparents my parents it was no divorce in our family and marriage much like yours was very held very high and esteem. Okay how about you Matt what's your background with divorce before you get married. Well I came from a divorce family my parents got divorced when I was 13 and for me and there was other family members in my family that were divorced and for me the experience at least was remembering that you know like when we when my parents did get divorced you know we weren't like shunned from the church or anything but it wasn't like anybody reached out or nobody really talked to me again or anything you know so it wasn't a good experience for me. Okay so Esther as you were preparing to get married what was your view on divorce not having come from a family that had experienced that what was your view about that. Yeah we had talked a lot about it because you know for him it was so important you know he he didn't want to go through what he had gone through as a kid when his parents had gone through and and you know I was very committed to that as well. Okay so when did you notice some troubling signs in your relationship Esther here's where it gets good. Here's where it got really bad right away right away we we hit trouble immediately and which I knew I knew would come I knew you know being very young and I I knew he had issues that's what I knew he had issues I didn't know that I had any but I knew he you know he had he had a past with a lot of history and had a pretty big backpack of baggage and but I don't know that I knew how hard it would be. So Matt what were those troubling signs on your side as you entered the relationship or marriage. Well she wasn't acting like a prowess 31 woman enough and you know the I entered marriage thinking you know you complete me you know I was that Jerry McGuire story you know is that's what I pictured and that wasn't happening. For me you know being disappointed by the church's response and and for you know praying that you know I parents would stay together and I didn't feel like I'd answered or anything and so for me my strategy was we're going to do it the Matt Weston way and that's that's you know pull up your big boy brooches and we're going to try hard at this so I you know I tried to you know I listened to Christian radio I went to church I wanted to be a small group leader just different things that I I tried doing the right thing but we would always kind of end up in the same cycle again. So when she didn't meet your expectations what would that bring up in you intense anger and I would become very unpredictable it would bring up I mean looking back now it was like I had this 500 pound backpack of shame on my back and when you would you know put a three ounce or five ounce brick on it saying this or that it was it was too much for me and you know why are you making me feel this pain right and a lot of times when we would go through the cycle I would often even forget what it was about you know I just knew that you were making me feel shame right and you know I'm trying hard at this I'm trying as hard as I can you know what what's your problem here you know you're not supposed to be my soulmate right right and why are you making me feel this way right so it was uh it was a lot of pressure and and that would just you know I had made a vow when I was 13 years old and said you know I'm done crying I'm not going to cry anymore I'm going to go make this happen and so when we would argue and fight you know that I would just continue to kind of push down how I how it's feeling so then yeah if something small came up you know why'd you leave light on I don't know anything right you didn't know the unpredictability you were talking about yeah it was unpredictability and now it's kind of some of the symptoms for me were experiencing his anger and not understanding where it was coming from or what it was about and trying to fix it you know and and I and I had kind of was coming along in his strategy he wanted me to make it work and so I was going to try to make it work you know so but when I would get mad at you you would retreat I mean you would just I would freeze yeah and not know what to do and that and that became our cycle he would get angry I would freeze and shut down and pull away my pulling away felt very much like abandonment to you and and so then he would get louder well I hate conflict with everything in me and so I would retreat further try and try and solve the conflict do whatever I had to do to make yeah I married you the please me and to you know make my life better right and so why am I feeling how I felt before and in fact even worse yeah yeah so it wasn't working out so well so what were some things when you realized this half this was happening and you saw this cycle going happening over and over again what were some of the things you tried to do to work on it or to try to deal with it Esther why don't you start with that what did you try to do well in the early years I just tried harder I thought I can do this you know I grew up in the church and I know that God is with me and I know that I can do this and I prayed a lot and I tried to be a better wife and then I tried to be a better wife and then I prayed some more and but it it wasn't getting to the heart of trying harder and then at some point in the marriage about three years then we got a little bit of help from a family member of mine my uncle who we were able to share some of our struggle with and kind of get a little bit of alleviation and help and somebody else bringing light to the situation how about you Matt what did you go ahead I was gonna say it it seemed like looking back that we tried a lot of coping strategies you know like like what how how to fight fair let's say but you know in fairness there wasn't ever going to be a fair fight because you know she didn't know what spark could ignite the shame that I was carrying around and so it was you know we were two individuals that were you know very broken and both had abandonment issues and we were definitely triggering each other and so it just you know the cycles some of them were you know for a day somewhere for a week somewhere for a month you know and you know eventually we would just you know get things back to normal again and okay we can do this we can do this we're gonna try harder and you know um it was tough so did you you mentioned just kind of having a family friend talk about did you ever consider going to someone for some counseling did you ever consider that man um and the Matt Weston book of things that's not on my radar because I didn't anybody's help you know I'm a survivor I've done this long enough and you know quite honestly I had a bad experience when I was a teenager with counseling so um you know that's yeah that's not one of the the things to do for me okay Esther what what was um what brought you to a point where you felt like you had to take some more drastic action in the situation well it's it's a long journey to say over 15 years of going through this cycle you know and sometimes having periods of great success but always ending back in that place and really the underlying issues still being there um so a lot of things I would say brought me to that place one my kids recognizing that as much as I wanted to deny that this was affecting them and I could protect them from it and I could keep it from hurting them it was um and I had to do something different uh to was um getting counseling for myself he was as he said not open to that uh and and really in a in a big way didn't want me to go either because he feared so much that me going to counseling was just going to be about playing my finger saying you know I get enough of that I need you to handle that yeah have somebody help you do that right exactly when we're not gonna pay somebody to do that for sure um but for me it really total dependence on God and God working in my story to open up through a lot of different avenues for that to be able to happen and it wasn't as he feared about him it was about it was about me and it was about understanding how I was responding to him more out of my completely overwhelming fear of conflict that had become an idol in my heart that I lived for peace at all costs even if speaking truth which would bring conflict was what was necessary and what was righteous and um so I had to go back and dig into my own past of you know of realizing that through my adoption and great grief of losing my birth mom and then being adopted into a family of a very militant mother who was determined to you know get me into shape and not have any tears and thank me until that was you know we were deciding that it was better not to ever cry um that that I had learned to be compliant and to please and to be invisible and to disappear and to not have any preferences myself um and so repentance for me meant having to disrupt what I knew would make him angry I mean all the times that he had been getting angry in the past I wasn't trying to make him angry I'm trying to make him happy and he's still getting angry so to deliberately step into what I knew would what I knew would you would hate so your actions were protect your children your actions were to begin to examine your own heart what um what action did she have to take to get you to face the issues in your life met in a radical way well you know my my worst fear came true in that you know you you needed to be safe and you know and leave the situation and you know and ask others for help you know you were the stronger one um at the time and um so that's you know you had to leave me and um I had to get to a place where um you know I was broken enough to ask the question um you know is God gonna show up in my deepest darkest hour you know when you know okay you're not there for me now and so what's gonna happen and you know the thoughts of you know leaving running away starting over finding my soulmate I mean all those lies that you know would just start to go through my head um you know so I had to face that issue for myself you know where's God gonna be in all you know he wasn't there for me before there's the way I felt so um you're gonna be there for me now is the question that I had to ask myself what did each of you have to be willing to give up to face these issues in your marriage because you you had these hopes and dreams we kind of heard you both articulate that you kind of had the hopes and dreams I kind of envision this you had to give something up to be able to tackle the issues inside can you both speak into that good Esther yeah I had to give up the dream really of that I could make this work that I could fix it and that I could be you know smart smarter or cook better or be a better wife or would you replace that with I had to just die to that I what I replaced that with was repentance of being who I am that I am who I am and I cannot I cannot fix this um to give up control it sounds like what you're saying yeah I kept trying over and over again to to do whatever I could and to realize that I couldn't make these choices for him I couldn't do any of that and so I had to give up my own strategy for making life work which was that I needed life to be okay I needed to be um you know I had this you know persona from the outside that I had it together and that I could figure it out and that you know I could make things work and and I had to be okay with not being okay and say I'm not okay and I can't make it work did you have any guarantees your marriage would survive I did not and that was I had to actually grieve the death of the marriage and recognize that if God if God calls me to confront this and he leaves I I will be okay with God you know God will keep me that he my intention was always for the marriage it was never to leave him um it was always to do whatever it took for the marriage but I knew that it would feel to him like I was leaving him what about you Matt would you have to be willing to give up to enter these issues in your life oh you know I had to be broken but I had to be at a point where um I was willing to let others help me and um really uh you know having uh Jim and Kyle and Jerry and the guys in my small group you know come beside me at that point and and believe in me I guess would be a thing that you know it's like they didn't they didn't add any shame or anything to it and yourself um you know when you guys given me hope that I could do this um you know that that was the main thing I guess is just that that I needed help you know that I was very broken and that even though um you know my motto was before you know I you know when I was 13 you know everything else is behind me I'm gonna make this work you know that was my full intention when I married you and uh it wasn't working out at all and so you know I really just needed help and I need to get to a place where um I think I'd mentioned that that my uh the lie that I was believing that God would not be there for me um and that you know I so needed to depend on her all the time for everything to be right um you know that that I had to really ask that question and see what would happen you remember on the plane when you said you couldn't do this I said you know I don't it's too hard it's too hard yeah and you had to believe that you could do it not your way right but you had the capacity with God's help and the support of others to do it but I think the importance of what you were asking me to do was you know to face it go back yeah to face all the the um the things that were done to me the pain from the past yeah the pain from the past that was done to me the you know the truckload of shame that I was pulling behind me because of sins that were done to me um you know I didn't I didn't think I could why go there you know so of course when a little thing would happen and you know she would put what I would perceive as another ricka shame on there you know unfortunately for you that that didn't bode well with me were you gonna add something to her just that I think it was so important with your friendship and with the guys in our small group that they were supportive of you but they also never minimized what the struggle was this is this is what it is and it has to be dealt with and here's the steps you know you need to go to counseling and you need to um you know we're going to be there with you but we're also going to push you why as we wrap up here guys what would you say to couples who are listening who are at all different places in their journey what what specific thoughts do you have to get them as we walk away start man sure um well I just think it's you know when you had asked me to do this um you know what a part of I guess what I want to share is that you know not only did God you know save me from my sins and I'm going to heaven but that he is a god who is writing our story and and he's going to continue to write our story and it's going to be his story you know and um but at the same time I just want to make sure I'm saying that you know we're both very broken individuals and we have not arrived or anything like that I mean that's how I live now I'm a broken individual and I need lots of help and and I know that I guess what encouraged me to come up here because this isn't like me I sit in the back all the way over there um is because I know that many of you are here and struggling in different ways or maybe the same way and I would just want to encourage you that um you know to ask for help and to know that you know that this I want to see our church be a place of grace where people can come that are broken and just you know be able to say I need help I can't do this on my own anymore you know you know and be at that place and know that it's going to be received well because it was for me Esther I would say for myself it's I can't really communicate to you you know in these in these several minutes how tremendously difficult this struggle was for us 15 years of struggle and several of the things that I would say that are important and are to keep struggling to be relentless about the struggle to not ignore the struggle that there are avenues and if one avenue doesn't pan out seek another avenue that God God provided you know for me in crazy unexpected ways when I felt like I was completely at the end and then also a big huge part of the struggle for me was in recognizing myself really as the older brother in the parable of the prodigal son and and you know in a lot of ways his repentance was much like the prodigal who was it was kind of obvious and out there and and anger and I was the committed to I'd always followed the rules and always did the right thing and always you know I didn't go off and do and I you know I held my tongue and I didn't speak in anger and I you know followed all those things about to to be willing to ruthlessly relentlessly relentlessly look at myself and come to that same place of brokenness that um that I am just exactly as screwed up as him and I am just exactly as much in desperate need of a heavenly father who will run to me and accept me and throw a party in my favor and honor when I do not deserve it and and that's a gift I think that both of us have come to know that that God God somehow prefers broken to wholeness and he can do more with broken than he does with whole and and so being willing to step fully into our brokenness for me being willing to create a mess that I knew that I could not clean up and God would have to do that and then watching him do that well thank you both would you thank them for their courage to when I sat with the two of them when they were at these moments of crisis I didn't know if they would make it I sat with other friends at the exact same place and they didn't and I think our hope and desire this morning is that each of us no matter where we're at in our journey no matter where we're at in the relational world that got us places that we would look hard at that studies show that couples that need help wait six years too long to get help six years and then they aren't willing to give themselves six months to try to work on it and so I know not every story turns out like Matt Nestors and it's only by the grace of God that they are where they are today and they very clearly articulated that but I hope this morning that you get a sense that God has this ideal this desire this dream for us but sometimes because of the hardness of men's heart and women's heart it doesn't end up there but God still is a God of mercy and grace that gives us a second chance it gives us these opportunities to re-enter life and relationships again and that's what he wants for us not a God of rules and a God of don't don't don't don't but a God that longs for something in us that would reflect this amazing love that the God of the heavens knows and that he wants to be reflected in the way a husband and a wife love one another I know there may be more questions you had this morning and I'll be in the back I've asked Matt and Esther if they would be up in the front if you want to talk to them along with Johnny after the service and feel free to contact me this week and do my best to communicate additional answers to questions you have but would you join me in prayer as we close this morning God as we wrap up this morning we do so having tackled a very heavy subject a subject that there's so much emotion wrapped up in it for many of us whether from our own experience whether the experience of people that we love maybe our own pain right now maybe our own confusion is Matt said where is God when this thing I committed myself to this person I committed myself to it's not what I hoped it would be and it's anything but good and what I just pray that we would walk away with for those who are in a marriage relationship with a commitment to that no matter what state it is right in right now a commitment that says I don't understand what God's up to and I don't understand what he's doing but I do want to rest in the fact that he's going to do something and even though it may not feel good right now in the moment it's there's something good God's going to do Lord I just pray for those who are in marriages that are struggling or who have had to walk through the pain of broken marriages God somehow be very present with them today help us to know how to enter that struggle as as Matt said and walk with them through the pain and confusion and heartache and battle that exist in that and Lord may we be a community that not only loves you and the ideal that you call us to but lives in a relationship of grace and compassion and mercy help us to navigate that God because it's hard for us to do it on your own your name we pray amen you know as the band comes forward I just want to challenge you this morning if you are married and there are struggles that you're facing not to ignore them don't assume they're going to go away because I can guarantee you they will not be willing to talk to someone be willing to face the things in your own life in your own journey in your own story you know as I thought about why this is so important not only is it important if you have a relationship with Jesus and you pursue a life of faith but the other reason it's so important is how I started my message about what woke me up to this issue and that's talking to the students and looking at the kids and the world that they are growing up in they're growing up in a world that says try it if it doesn't work just throw it away and try again and God says there's a better way and if they don't see moms and dads if they don't see their parents friends if they don't see other couples in a church that's not only deeply committed to marriage for a lifetime but to love one another in ways that they want to have relationships just like that that's what I want for our kids our students our teens that our lives would reflect all of those things Johnny's going to lead us in a song that really just challenges us and and calls us in our own heart in our relationship with God. Johnny [BLANK_AUDIO]