The Red Hand
Joker in the pack
Welcome to another episode of the Red Hand Podcast. Thank you all for listening. There's really good numbers at the moment. So please do me a favor, share, like, subscribe, all those things to try and grow the podcast because it's hard as an independent podcast to get the word out there compared to other podcasts that have all this infrastructure or maybe are connected to newspapers and things like that. We're completely independent with the Red Hand by fans, for fans. So please help us out. We really appreciate it. Like, subscribe. And that's the best way to do it. So we're back this week to discuss Ulster's hammering of the Chiefs at Forkish Raven Hill and I'm joined by the usual gang of Ayn, Nathan and Dan. Really good episode and it's really good to have plenty of positive stuff to chat about. So speaking of positive stuff, next week is the Red Hand Live event in Hearthpull in Bali, Hackamore. Tickets sold out ages ago but should be really fun night with stand-up comedy kicking off the night from Daniel Houston, Sean Hagerty and Pete Giffon. So it'll be really nice way to kick off proceedings and then following that, there's a panel discussion chaired by Mark Robson with all new Robbo. The voice of Ulster would be can be heard regularly on our TV screens and three Ulster legends, Craig Gilroy, Luke Marshall and Patty McAllister. It will also be part of the panel and that should be really fun and interesting to listen to them. The whole night is raising money for a mental health charity called AWARE and I. Very worthy charity to help people with depression and there's a charity raffle on the night. So if you're coming, please bring cash, you can enter the raffle or some good prizes. I'm still accepting raffle prizes so if anyone would be generous enough to donate to the raffle, give us a couple more prizes. That would be very gratefully received so my huge thanks to those who have donated already. By the way, Hearth is a partner of the Red Hand, it's the best pub in Bali Hack, I'm not just saying that it's a fantastic pub, great place to watch the sport, good screens, just really warm welcoming environment as well. Lovely food on and there, there's something happening that seems almost every night of the week. Follow them on Instagram, Facebook and wherever else to keep up the date with what's happening. I also want to shout out Harlequin Drug Bay Club. Harlequins are also partnered with the Red Hand. Delighted that we've struck up that partnership, they've had us down the record in the club house a couple of times and again just like a really warm welcome environment down there. They have loads of teams with male and female from Mini Robry Ride-Up. It's a fantastic club, real community down there. So if you want to get involved in playing, you can get in touch with them on Instagram or Facebook or follow them so you can see when the games are on, you can go down and watch, hang about in the club house and you can be sure that you'll have a really good time down at Harlequins. So as I say, follow them on socials, keep up to date with what they're doing and now on to the episode. The Red Hand would like to thank Johnny Pierce, the founder of Build for Better Business for sponsoring this episode. Maybe you've been trying to make some changes to your lifestyle and improve your health for a while now. You don't feel like you have the time, motivation or the knowledge. You're confused about how you get in shape but after your health, most importantly, maintain your results for life. All while managing your busy schedule, you want to hire a coach who understands you, that has the experience you want and hasn't just entered the coaching industry. Johnny and his team have helped over 800 high performers just like you over the last 10 years and can break it down into small actionable steps, educating their clients, supporting them and holding them accountable to achieving what they never thought was possible. If you want to improve your health markers, drop some on-monthly body fat and live life with more energy and less brain fog, I highly recommend sending Johnny Pierce a message on any of the social media platforms or check out his website to see the success stories from his clients at www.builtforbetterbusiness.com Welcome to the Red Hand Podcast, the most listened to Ulster Rugby Podcast. The Red Hand is independent, made by fans, for fans. Next level Ulster Rugby content featuring unrivaled insight on filtered opinion, powerful stories and accessible analysis. If you're a business who would like to advertise to thousands of rugby fans across the province and beyond, please get in touch via Instagram @theredhand.co or email pater@theredhand.co. Don't forget to follow us on socials and join in the discussion. If you enjoy the podcast and would like to support us, please sign up to the Red Hand on Patreon. Also, please like and subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a rating and tell your friends. Put the link to the podcast in some of your group chats. Thanks for your support and we hope you enjoy listening to this episode. Welcome to the Red Hand Podcast. Qualification for the Champions Cup was never in doubt. Now the spirit of 99 will hopefully kick in and will go all the way. Maybe not, but in case you missed it, Ulster are back to winning ways, hammering the Chiefs at Ravenhill. After a bit of a rupee start, I ended up absolutely loving that game. In fact, despite the rollercooster nature, off of his tenure, I'm firmly on board with Project Murphy. I'll have to say, I do love this Ulster team. So, Nathan, for those who missed it, I can't remember what happened. Could you give us a bit of a summary? Yeah, well, it was an interesting one because I actually, I missed it live myself. I was at the conic game in Cardiff. I was working that. So it's kind of like you're trying to, you're more interested in one game, but you have to work with the other one. So you're trying to keep an eye on Twitter or whatever to keep behind the scores. And all of a sudden, you look up and it's what? 10 minutes in, 15 minutes in, and it's 12-0 extra. And you're going, and here, there I was last week, giving it the big one about how all Ulster could still qualify. Here's the points difference they need. Here are the bonus points. All this nonsense that I was chatting. And then they go 12-0 down and have a better extra game up on Europe. I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ, right. The one time I backed them. The one time I said these lads could actually go up and do something. But we fair, they done did it. They turned up Grand Bampa, that young winger from X-ray looks quality. He scored a try last week as well, maybe scored three minutes in. And then Vincent kind of rambling the pitch, didn't he? Almost. It was a weird game. I heard a description somewhere that Vincent and Timmy look like senior players going down to play an A match at times. I don't completely disagree with that, having watched the game back. But the rest of the first time I was just kind of tipped for that is a chugu got his first. And the can got another one. Extra hit back, then Timmy hit back. Both Hayden, Woden, Doke were very iffy off the tee a bit, so 17-0 half time. Then Ulster just took over. More try, a claxon alert we'd like to do. That happened early on is a chugu got his hat trick. And Carson scored a bit of a worldy. I can't remember who gave him the offload, but it was Mikey Larry, wasn't it? It was a brilliant little offload on Carson. On commentary, there was like a big, "Oh, what a step." And I was like, "Well, I don't think he took a step. I just think he ran around your man." And you just didn't fancy tackling it in the back field. But look, Grand's gone nuts at that stage and also just keep piling it on. And then you go and hang on there. What was it? It was 50-20, no, 52-17 at that point. And Ulster, they're playing out from the 22. Yeah, get another one, get another one, put the pressure on the Sharks, points different, all this stuff. Because the equation at the start of the day was Ulster with 28 behind. And of course, they're more than 28 points ahead of extra. And they chop the ball on their own 22, and that extra score. And you just go, "Eans send a message into a wild side group going, 'You better fucking not get out and miss out on this by seven points.'" And I think that was the overriding feeling from the end of the evening. Otherwise, I'm sure we'll talk about maybe giving the run that the Sharks are going to go on now. And Ulster got bored away. It might not have been the worst thing in the world. But look, it looked entertaining. It was a bit of crack. And they finally won again in Europe. Yeah, well, some rise, Nathan. Another big European night in Belfast, which is great. And Ayn, you were there, weren't you? Tell us a wee bit about the atmosphere. What was it like? Was it rocking? It wasn't, to be fair. And maybe a few moments during the game, the last sort of 15 minutes when John Cooney came on and up the temple. And the crowd started to get a wee bit more involved at that stage. But from the start, we're pretty stunned with the exters. Start being 12 now up after 10 minutes. And we were sort of looking around and wondering when Ulster would actually start to play. And thankfully, they did and clowed that back. But as Nathan alluded to, it wasn't a terribly good first half. And there wasn't enough a lot to get the crowd out of their seats. A couple of Ulster Ulster chants, particularly when we sort of got a wee bit of ball in their half. And looked like putting a bit of pressure on them. But I just thought that the first half just wasn't very cohesive. A lot of mistakes were made. Some players were better than others. But thankfully, we turned it around in the second half. And we ended up with actually some very, very good performances out there. And from a crowd point of view, plenty to get us going in the last 15-20 minutes with the tries come with thinking fast. And I would have to say, the style of play in that last 20 minutes was fantastic. A lot of our floating guys getting their arms free in the tackle. And sometimes it didn't look terribly pretty. You know, the ball had been recycled, but it was being recycled. And we ran, except we were ragged in those last few while. And we can understand that they sort of brought an A team, I suppose, with one or two of their normal people. And again, your credit to their winger, the number 11, who scored the score. A couple of tries scored the one that went in the first half. Fantastic player. And it just seemed to have the measure of our wingers for most of the game when it came to tackle. And I thought it was superb. And I also thought I give holiday them. So a big shout-out, she kept that game flowing. They were actually, I don't think there were any controversial moments during the game. Well, sometimes it takes a controversial moment to get the crowd. There was only one that they did on the second half when they looked as though it could have been just taken out a wee bit late. And there was a real shout-out to the ref for a penalty there. But, you know, all great to get the win, great to get to stay in the Champions Cup. And hopefully better things to come. Yeah, absolutely love it. And yeah, it's very rare, actually, on any podcast to hear the referee praised. But, as you say, if you don't notice the referee's performance that much, then it's usually a good thing. But I think people with all the recent chat about refereeing standards, it was actually really nice to see a really accomplished refereeing performance controlled the game really well. So that was really good. Really interesting about the sort of the crowd and being maybe not self-starters, you know, in Belfast, you know, it used to be such a cauldron. It's a really intimidating place to come through under what's changed. Well, I suppose it's just, you know, things that, like, you know, going two tries down very early in the game with not noxy. I'm not sure that the expectation, I think the expectation of what in the game was there, but I'm not sure the expectation of getting, you know, the point difference that meant that we could qualify. I'm not sure that expectation was there before the game started. So, you know, maybe that had an effect. There was a pretty good crowd in there considering, you know, I didn't hear the final crowd numbers, but I would have thought we were up around the 14,000 plus. So, you know, the numbers were there. And, you know, the regular guys were there. So, it was just one of those performances that, you know, certainly first half didn't warrant, you know, jumping and cheering. Except for the guys around you, Ian, by all the kinds. We have a couple of rows of half a dozen or eight guys in front of me who are regular season ticket holders. And they were quite reckless, but for different reasons, they had held over the Christmas party. And I believe they started drinking from about 3pm in town. And I got several apologies before the game, for their behaviour, rather than then went until afterwards, but generally they weren't too bad. Very polite, raucous people. They were glad to hear that. Well, yeah, well, they did their usual shark and also shared some of their bit as well. Very good. Very good. Dan, were you going to come in there about something of a question for you as well? But were you going to talk about the referee? Well, yeah, the whole difference was great. She was really, really good. I was only sort of just agreeing there even. The thing about the, well, aspect of the sort of atmosphere thing was probably most people, and that's the answer to this, but we didn't realise that there was like sort of stuff on the line. So that's why she listened to the Red Heart podcast. Absolutely. Creating the masses, Daniel. Educating the masses. Whether you're complicated miles. I couldn't agree more. I mean, it confused everyone here. And then I thought it was made up. And then primary sport for me on Sunday night, but we have a thrilling last 16 clash. Is that because as I could see, he was listening in and he liked me taking the piss. Remember, I took the piss out of that fan who tried to have his moment with him. Look, in terms of, Ian mentioned a few individual performances and reasons to get the crowd on their feet. Now, Daniel turned to you for that. In terms of individual performances, there was two, it was a bit of controversy because Scott Wilson got man of the match deservedly, but it's quite rare that someone who scores a hat trick doesn't get man of the match. So as a chukwoo, it was sort of cruelly overlooked for the man of the match, but Scott Wilson very deserving as well. There's a few other individual performances there talked to us about the players who stood out to you down. Yeah, unfortunately Comark is a chukwoo around in this third try, right after their nine smile of the match. So he probably got that two minutes earlier, they probably switched it. But I don't think anyone's too bold a mile of the match, so that's Scott Wilson was very good. Yeah, he's, he's strong, he looks stronger every year. I think like that's a, it's a real thing about the development of a prop, but like he's strong as an ox up boy, like he's, and he's got feet as well. I think like, you know, like, it's obviously it's, it's a massive comparison, but like, you know, I remember for a long when he was young, he kind of had feet and if Scottie can just develop those little sort of moments of, you know, nice handling, he's got loads there to work with and he was really good. It's a chukwoo, obviously again, to blue the doors off. It's supposed to do a lot of people I thought Ian actually hit there. Yeah, Cooney was very good in terms of coming on in a game where we were winning and we were winning sort of, you know, we had a decent sort of points difference, but he really put the foot down when accident were, you know, they were wavering and they were weathering a bit and it was good to see. I mean, again, like, I keep coming back to him. Dude, Palsil's quit. I just think every week, he looks like he fast, he's big, he's strong. He'd give a brilliant little inside offload to Mike Lorry for, you know, then went back to Carson, that was a great score. Like, and he does a lot of very good things for a big man and I think a lot of big guys tend to develop this. I would think a lot of those fans actually would even say Stuart McCloskey developed loads of his sort of quality handling game and kicking game or at least he brought it into the, you know, the matches more later in his career, but possibly like he straightens up a lot, you know, when he takes the ball in space, he doesn't just pick some note and run up and he straightens up, you know, and he passes it's, his skill level is very good and it was something that I was critical of in the last year game was that I thought there was an issue with skill level and I don't think it's not that that's not going away or anything, but I thought he was, it's just he's very skilled and I think it'll be interesting now because McElroy's out for the year that Stuart Murrow need to play a lot of 15 I think and I think it's really important that he gets minutes in the 15th shirt and that he develops his relationships with his wingers, but I thought generally like it was good at the first half wasn't great and the defensive thing came up again, you know, like, you know, your man Vincent, run on the, you know, run on the pitch off picking through a rock, it's, it's not really great, but there was a lot to be helping, but I thought another thing is that that's 100% line out win success in two weeks, which has been an area that we've been really critical of all sorts problems with line outs and securing set peace ball and the errors around that. I think that's really important, like, I think you are probably just starting to see a bit of, you know, Jim Duffy is like that forward sort of coordinator, they look like they have a clear plan with their line outs and so I think there's a lot of good bits I suppose maybe in the system and in the shape that look like they're sort of coming together a bit, you know, like, there was a lot, there was less errors again, not extra worst team than the three teams they've played before, but, you know, errors is something that we've had an issue with. It's just especially handling errors, so I think as a team, the second half was good and extra were great, but you also have to, you know, you do have to put it away and they did that and I think there's a good bit to be excited about. I think, you know, again, you come back to like, we're missing players there and so no, I was, I was happy with it. I was definitely happy with it, but, yeah, team guys tend to stick out a lot, but I think the actual overall thing of it, the squad, you know, guys, you were coming on doing a good job and, um, no, it was, it was good to see that kind of squad cohesion, kind of look like it was back a bit. Yeah, yeah, there's plenty of repossing about him, turn you now. Just, just to follow up on that, I had a puzzle threat down here as well, I thought he was absolutely superb. I don't think he failed to make yards any time he got the ball. And he was always looking to, you know, to often hold. He wasn't, he wasn't going to die with the ball. I also thought, as well as Cooney making the impact, Treadwell played particularly well when he came on and both of the replacement props made big impacts and no one less so than Callum Reed, who you quite rightly picked out earlier on Twitter about that moronning run of his that almost gave up the try. And I just thought it was my first thought when that happened was how brilliantly he did not to go for the for the try line when he was so short and they end up getting penalized and we ended up scoring from that. And I was so impressed with that. And as well on his first appearance of the season, Jake Flannery, I think it was. Some lovely touches around the field and him and Murphy slotted in well at first receiver in those last 20 minutes very, very well. So yeah, David McCon as well. Yeah, I think it's good to see those guys at McCon and as a true group player team that was going forward. Well, they did a lot of, you know, that's a lot of grim work they've been going into, you know, that's a lose photo. And to be fair, Tigers was a very disappointed performance. But like, you know, those guys probably are like, I think McCon in particular probably is, it probably is hurting him a lot of the time playing these performances. Like, obviously, we saw McNabbly got a call to the developments, the development for the Ireland squad on this trick was in there. But, you know, it is going to hurt guys. Like, Nick Timney is probably a good example of a guy who's like, just keeps doing great work. Like, he was brilliant again. But it's like guys that we then fail to mention because their performance level has been really high, even when ours hasn't been good. So I suppose it is always worth this. And it's always worth mentioning those guys who, you know, on the worst day, they're giving you a really good shift. And on those days, you know, it shines through more, you know, they get over the line and they sort of look like they're just obviously more comfortable because they're not having to run into brick walls with slow rock ball, they're getting, you know, space to actually show off the skills. Yeah, and that it sort of segues perfectly into my next question. And a lot of people sent this in actually, Nathan will give you first dibs at this. It's a question or questions about the Scrum Half. So there's a lot of chat about this over recent weeks, and to be honest, over the whole season, about who are number one Scrum Half should be. Angus Millen says, the whole back line came alive when Cooney came on, the speed at the breakdown went up about four gears and things clicked that haven't all that haven't done all season. And then Jim O'Hagan says, surely that game, I think it's a bit hard, but he says, surely that proves that Doker's holding Ulster back, like given the impact Cooney had. Graham Ruben except for a point, he says, Exeter had an Ulster that at nine. Why aren't we developing these kids? And look, I think, I think there's some important points raised there, but I also, I'm still in camp, I think Doker's a class player, and I think we'll start to see, well, when the team's going forward, we start to see what he can do. Yeah, the movie turned to you now for your thoughts on the Scrum Half situation. Yeah, there's a couple of things on this. I mean, it wasn't that long ago, I think it was Ferris and in the question, didn't he about though? Yeah. Post Conners, and how he gets a bit of an unfair ride, people, and we defended him, we said, yeah, he played really well against Conners, he kind of embraced that defensive specialist role of like the one man in Blitz, that Ulster employed on that day to shut down Akki and it worked really well. So, you know, it's swings and roundabouts, isn't it? It's one week, you're fantastic. And he was, like I said, I watched it back, but I did watch the Leicester game live, I was at that, and he really did struggle, and everyone struggled. I think with Cooney that you have to remember, we are coming on, you're always coming off again, you're coming on against a slightly jaded fatigued team, especially if, you know, when it's forward, it's such a forward and back game, it is easier to manage a game in that sort of, to impact a game in that sense, because it's such a chaotic game, you can fit in really easily, it's not like all of a sudden you need to come in and you need to put, you know, you need to control it, so to speak. It's just things are happening everywhere, you just need to keep your error count low and do a job. But the one thing, I mean, that's always been Dokes issue, and it was really interesting, a couple of weeks ago Ian Madigan on the pod was talking about it, Ryan Darcy criticized him on a pod as well recently is, and I believe Madigan more so because he played with him recently, but it's interesting, all these ex-pros and backlines are talking about it, it's ball speed, be it his speed to the breakdown or speed of delivery off the breaker or both is just not there, it's not quick enough, and when you want to be sending past the plate cars and crashing through or whoever it is on the wing out behind those lads, you just, yeah, Ian, that ex just split second, if you are half a tenth of a second off the guy coming off the bench, it does make a big difference, and now Cooney is a very similar scrum half, he's a, you know, a big bodied or a place kicking, box kicking his scrum half, but his speed, I'm playing the ball and getting to the ball is much better recently, I think that's the issue, I mean, Doke is obviously doing a lot right behind the scenes because he keeps getting these starts in these big games, and maybe it's an age thing as well, it's a planning for the future thing with Cooney's knocking me around forever, but yeah, and it's hard to argue when you've got all these ex pros saying this, we who are not experts, having not played the game can see it, and also back line did look a lot better, there are other factors as well, but if you've got quicker ball, it's just, it makes such a difference. Yeah, it was also a massive thing, and I felt like in Jefferson, given parks, like sort of emergence and Irish rugby was the big thing that I thought lots of people and they watched Lancer on the Lancaster was like the, the speed of sort of his analysis of the pitch, and then his decision making, I'm actually even sometimes as well, I just feel like Doke waits for the whole shape to get set, as if he needs everything in place, and then the ball goes, sometimes actually you see Gibson Park, he just sort of leaves the ball up for forward, just to get, like this breakdown is not perfect, this isn't what, but there's enough shape here to get another phase, and maybe get some good breakdown ball. It's a shame park, this isn't here because this is a big football term, but Gibson Park is the best scanner in Irish rugby, he knows where he's going, he's looked three, four to five times before he's got to get to that break then, and it's huge in football midfielders like Odregard de Bruyne, they're all everyone talks about their scanning, Gibson Park is watching me again, he's comfortably the best in Irish rugby at doing that, and it's why he throws those 20 meter young, you know, balls down the blind side, and he gets so many tri-assists, because he knows, whereas maybe yeah Doke just doesn't, that decision-making isn't as quick. Yeah, and it's definitely a skill that's like, it's, it's not easy to develop, you know, it's not something like go kick him, where you just need to maybe just, you know, set it there on your own, and like you need in match practice over, and with that then you probably need to review how teams defend, and you need to be very like, sharp about every week preparing, you know, like, I'm sure Gibson Park, you know, he doesn't just throw a big pass on the blind side on the wind, you know, he thinks about how the team's defense, he practices, he studies it, I think it's, it's a massive part of those games that if he improves it, like, all the other, all the other bits, they look quite nice, you know, like the, the kicking game is big, like if he, if he keeps developing, go kicking, and it's already a pretty high level, like, you know, this is the thing that will hold him back, and we can blame, alter, don't, don't play in the front foot all the time, but I don't think international coaches say, well, you know, we'll pick you, you know, because you'll get better ball here, it's like rugby matches don't come with perfect ball, and like, Gibson Park plays, you know, sometimes, you know, per, per up ball, like, you just have to deal with it, and sometimes it's what I think Antoine de Paul is one of the best, like, he gets a lot of quite bad rock ball for France, but he has this ability to peel away and create stuff on his own, and like, I just think it's something that if dope gets that right, he will go, he will become like, like, a better player, but tenfold, like, he would be so much better for that, but it's a difficult scale, and it's something that I think actually sometimes as well, as like, a tall man, he actually looks like, when he had couched down, it's as if he has to crane to go under the ball, like, as if he does, you know, some guys paint this like, level, or they're just a bit kosher, like, the groin all the time, but it's like, he gets up, looks, looks dark, back down, and as Nathan said, those, that's second, is enough for a defense to be completely set, you know, and I just, it's the one thing that would ever frustrate me about him, really, he just, it just starts being a ball. Yeah, and I think, I think, like, on balance, I think he does get a hard time, I really rate, though, I think his ceiling is, is really high, as, as sort of alluded to there, I think, suppose that it's a, it's a shootout between Craig Casey and him for the future of the RS9 jersey, potentially, there'll be many other people will object to that, that's just my, my opinion, are other goods come offs in Ireland, but I think the two of them, and, and Nathan is so young, that he's, he's just, like, people forget it, because he's been on the scene for so long, but he's, he's still growing as a player, Murphy admitted, as you know, the other week that, yet they're trying to get him to speed up, but, after a member, like, the, the subs come half who comes on, their job is to speed up the game, so, it looks pretty good at controlling, but it's, it's, it's literally Cooney's job, you know, often, to come on and speed, speed the game up, so I wouldn't, wouldn't then I get Cooney's ability too much to do that, whenever it's not, it's not always what he's been asked to do, it's only certain areas of the pitch you, you ask, he need quick ball, so, right, and do you want to come in on that? Yeah, I just wanted to, to, to say, I thought to, for the most part on, on Friday Night Live, look, look pretty good, I thought his box kick, kicking particularly was on, on point, and we won a lot of ball back from that, and, and, yeah, I think it does, it, it gets a hard time from, from supporters for the very reason that you've just stated there, and as Nathan also said, you know, when you're bringing somebody on at 60 minutes, you know, the, the, the, the game does break up, and Cooney's good at that, you know, giving, giving him a massive credit, he, you know, he can see a lot of the spaces that are opening up, and I still think Nathan has improvements to make, but I think we've seen this season, a massive improvement in his game from, from what we had in the last couple of seasons, and he's back to, I think he's back to looking like the scrum half that we thought it was going to be when he first done the scene, and, yes, I agree with the comments that Dan made, you know, there are, there are areas of his game that still need a bit of work on, but he is young, and, you know, Jefferson Gibson Park wasn't always the best scanner, you know, something that he has picked up and, and improved upon, so I wouldn't be thrown left in the way, just, yeah, absolutely, and it sort of brings us on to that point, raised by Graham Rowa, but there's actually not really many people coming through and pushing once Cooney goes, you know, potentially the end of the season, there's not many people, and then you see the likes of Nylar Armstrong, who pays for Alexander, and you're wondering, do we have people slipping through the net, moving away, Nylar Armstrong, I think, was the same sort of school's cup team, he's 25, so we'd be, I'd be the same sort of school's cup team as- Yeah, he was James Hymn. Yes, like Lairie and Luke Lads. And Lairie, yeah, it was the Ebla Dab same team, yeah. There was a sickening number of, and people wasn't there on the pitch at the end, they're getting there, they're a fool to you. Oh, Roblett, we'll sneak it as way in there. I think he's, he's, he always, he's sick there, does he not count, is he? That's what it's after a school today. No, it was actually, it was lovely to see, actually. I think he's in his main, maybe. It was lovely to see, actually, all those guys, and shout out to Corey Barrett, and how well he's done in his appearance so far this season, and his, and his colleagues, we saw at the end. There's lots of them, but I always love that story. Do you know those guys played together, and then made it at the top level, so good to see. So, look, it's maybe a discussion for another day about development, other scrum halves, there's not, as I say, there's not that many other people pushing, you know, if you look down their ranks, it's not like there's not obvious candidate to step in there, Mike Omicdonald, I don't even know what's happened to him, like, I remember signing him, and then a few cameos at Colut, and I don't even know, like, is he in the reckoning now, or, but yeah. He didn't even get a start in the, in the A games, I think he was on the bench mostly for that. Ah, he's madness, because he actually, the first game he played, he got in man of the match, and it was a pre-season friendly, it was potentially against the likes of eggs that I can't remember, it was one of those- What was it? Yeah, it was a while ago, but he did very well, and you're thinking this guy's going to be a good option for us, and now, it was sort of McFarland era, where just people would go missing for about six months, and we'd never see them, or in this case, about two years, but the other question, I want the turn, I think, we need to- I think he only moved to Galway, like, very true. I didn't think he went missing once he got to Galway. Oh, yes, that was the problem. You never actually found his way to Galway? No, maybe that's my boss, Paul Munn, or something. Yeah, just what, yep. Poor guy, he stuck down there. It would be remiss not to talk about the Ireland squad selection, just to bring us on to that a week, but then, I knew that you've thoughts in this game as well, but as Angus Millen says, Nick Timmany, get overlooked for Peter Romani as Lunacy, he also says, Scott Wilson should be there. If we're looking ahead to the next World Cup, Ireland aren't exactly blessed with depth at prop, then we need to bring young guys like him, get them in the fold. So, what do you guys think? There's always these complaints from every province, but the likes of Posslewit, the likes of, well, Wilson's harder to argue, Nick Timmany certainly is in with a very good show. What do you guys think? Are we very cruelly treated here? Let's start with Posslewit, which centre are you dropping for Posslewit? And does that mean he jumps ahead of McCluskey in the pecking order, who also has been left out because he hasn't played because he's injured? He's injured. What about the development, even as a development spot, for, is it Hugh Cooneer, someone from Lancers, go and he's hardly played? They've taken him in, he's a completely different player, he's an outside centre, much more of a diminutive ball playing outside centre. Right, Posslewit, Lunacy, in the future, is a big 12, really. I know he's played from 13 outside of McCluskey, but he's not going to play a lot of 13 in international level, you would think. So, the fact that 13, what I would say about that is the 13 position is something that their depth chart is lighter on. You've got Ring Rose, Henshaw could do a job there, but then what are you looking at later on? And that's probably why they've said right, let's take a young 13. But it's Posslewit, if we get there, Akky just played one of the best games I've seen him play on Friday Night, because he probably is in there if he's face. Osborne has been tearing up trees all season, and Henshaw has done enough, I think. Yeah, I would tend to agree with what Nathan says. I think from the development point of view, you have to look at maybe what's coming up in the summertime when most of the frontline players are away with the Lions, and then we'll have one or two games we'll have in the summer. There's Romania, there's Georgia. Yeah, there might be top Portugal as well. Yeah, so there's games coming up for these guys to put their hand up in that environment, and I wouldn't be too concerned about the younger players maybe not getting into that squad at this stage. I do feel for Nick Timney, but I'm also quite aware of what's in there, but he's had really the last two squads where he has got zero minutes, so obviously with Ryan Baird being fit again, probably between him and Kate Printergas for that last back row spot, and Printergas was the one who was rewarded with some minutes in the autumn time, so there's nothing more that Nick can do other than keep doing what he has been doing, and that is performance after performance, and who knows, you hate to sort of say you're an injury away from getting on this team, I would hate anybody to get injured, but if someone does and you need a background player who's currently informed, then the connection, man. He's so versatile as well, I always think he's overlooked for his versatility, because you're like, "Hey, come on, he's also so dynamic as a ball car that bringing him up in any game is going to cause defensive issues." The one thing I would say about it all, well there's two things, the Umahani won, I just think, this is Umahani's last season, and they're not picking him to be sentimental, far from it, but every time he's been written off of an Ireland context recently, he's come back and played really well, and I just think there is that, see, I know Doris is a relatively experienced captain there, but there just is that little bit of a leadership vacuum, I think, still, if Umahani was to go, so I can see why they picked him ahead of a timmy, and you're right, I think it is a timmy versus a Prandegass, I think they're more similar players, Umahani's line out is a consideration as well, which isn't going gone to shit ready for Ireland in the last window, so that's probably a big consideration. The Wilson one is very interesting, because you're right, he's played a lot more than Thomas Clarkson, he's a bigger boy than Thomas Clarkson, I don't know if there's a scrumaging thing, maybe they would think Clarkson's a top-notch scrumager, and they obviously had him in over November and got him picked, that was the one, that would be the one I think there's a fair debate on, but - Yeah, it's got on Scotty's eyes, yeah, it shows me that he's been injured for a bit as well, at the season, like, yeah, we probably had a true run of games tonight, so like there's that element as well, I think, I think the only thing I would say about the, about that question in particular is that like, and this is not like, you know, picking on just the, just the question asker, but like, it's our general problem, is that like, you know, so we want timmy in, presumably then he'd replace Prandegast, but then we won't Scotty Wilson because we're looking to the next World Cup, so there's this like, element of like, where we tend to shoot for like, years of why guys hit squads, because that's our problem, so that's our players, like, you know, as in, I just, like, Monster fans are probably sitting, like, they're probably the exact same thing, they're saying, well, of course, Peter Manish has been in the squad, but so should Tom Harn, because we're looking to the next World Cup. Well, Harn's an interesting one, because he didn't start two European games from Monster. So I have the name of God, because he justified playing instead of Ryan Baird when he's been on the bench from Monster. Now, I don't know, maybe Monster love, love him as a bench impact guy, didn't work against Northampton, nor they've changed their pack in one go and they couldn't stop the ties there. That is a question, I don't know the answer to it, but it's a question. But the one thing I would say is the kind of the real, the magnabaly one is a huge win, because there are so many black girls in the country, and they've gone, we won't look at him. You know, you've got Cuhan and Mangan down on Wednesday, we're both going to be very good. Mangan is especially, he's going to tear up trees, you've got Quinn and Gleason down on Monster. Like, there are so many guys who are kind of the same age, under 20, who do you think that'd have any way of going to slam it on the 20th level? I think he did. That generation, those loads of guys who are in or close to that team were a year either side of it. And he's the one who said, yeah, I'm the closest, I played the most pro rugby down, I'm the closest to getting cast. That's huge, because they could have easily just picked James Cuhan again. James Cuhan's captain emerging Ireland, or no, Condell ended and then Cuhan captains. They didn't take Gleason, they didn't take Gleason, they didn't take Quinn. All these guys, they could have picked, who are good players, but the magnabaly has been playing pro rugby, he played really well against Leicester, you know, shot performance team wise. That's a huge win, and that's a big bonus for the province. And yeah, I think it kind of dispels the idea of various different sinister narratives that are out there, because... I like a good conspiracy theory though, but I feel better knowing Nathan, thank you. Sorry, Dan, go ahead. No, yes, yeah, I do think that on the whole, the squad just largely made sense. Yeah, there's always difficult picks. I think there's probably a lot of these decisions that, either way you go, you'd probably have been good to go. There's a lot of foreign players in Ireland now. I personally didn't look at the squad and think anyone at Ulster was really hard done by there. I think we've said, but in Ximone, it's just, it's been a terrible time to be a really good back rower in Ireland. We've had a great back row for a long period now, and he's playing at the same time, and it's killing Doris, and Josh founder Flair, and even Ryan Behrs comes through. I don't think there's many guys at Ulster, especially as well, with the results. And I think, actually, Ximone looked really, really well. Would it be, would it do you much good to sit in a tackle bag for, you know, five weeks? You've probably been playing rugby. And like, you get two games in the six nations. Like, the big games for Ulster in particular, like, you know, this was kind of where the season had to turn last year, and they made it just into the last day. You know, it's massive. So, I don't think there's a lot of other guys at Ulster who'll be going like, what more they'll have to do. You know, maybe Nick Timney, maybe Nick Timney, and maybe Dave McCam would think, but I think both those guys are in the same spot. A lot of quality back rowers, you probably need to be winning more games rugby to get in the Ireland squad these days. Yeah, we're happy to come on. I think that's the point, that's the point in order to make, was Ulster haven't been playing well. And if you're not in a team that's playing well, you don't get noticed the same. And yes, one or two guys keep putting in performances, but overall, it's when you're playing in a team that's playing very well. And if you think back two or three seasons ago, when we had Lowry and Hume stepping forward and Balacoon, those guys were playing in a team that was playing well and got noticed. So, you know, Ulster need to get a bit of consistency going, start winning games. And then these guys can seriously put their hand up, I think. Yeah, I call it the Gavin Coons effect. Everyone goes, Gavin Coons makes the most carries in the league, most tackles for Munster by far. Why does he not get picked? The reason why he doesn't get picked is what happens when the 27th when he played against Kail and Doris? Doris manhandled him for an hour or whatever along the two of them were on the switch. That is it. Like, are Ulster players, are any of those Ulster players doing similar things, not necessarily against Renster, but against better opposition? Yeah, McNabbany. And he's been rewarded. And, you know, I've seen him once live this year, and again, in a team performance that was really struggling, and you go, yeah, this kid has something. He wins collisions. He, you know, he's a dominant cat-back carrier. He's a big physical boy. Yeah, great. Let's have a look. And it's quite, I think, I mean, if I have actions that have generally been really strong, like throughout this whole thing, is that he, he's not, he's not a starts guy. Like, he's probably, you know, you probably, he watches you play against the closest thing you're going to get to test, rugby. Bordeaux is absolute. You know, if you're not said center, Bordeaux is probably the closest thing you're going to get to test rugby, but I should plan one to lose up front. You know, James McNabbany, looking like he kind of wants to go toe to toe with the best pack in Europe, that's something I'd have a look at. I think that's, that's, Nathan's, like, obviously, hit the point there. There's no point in rocking up four tries against, you know, Zebra, or that, like, I don't know, you know, one of our teams. He doesn't, it's, yeah, do your job on those games. But if you're going to get down in squads, you have to put in your best performances against the best teams. I think that's, I think that's the best way to smash squads as well. So I have absolutely no issues with, with any of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's the eye test, doesn't it? The eye test is crucial. People do refer to stats, but it's just watching those games. And as you say, McNabbany is one of those guys. You don't need to be rugby expert to see that he's just physically even, and honestly, his mentality. I saw his, his interview recently that he gave just about his sort of media work rise. And he's not phased, but at all, if you could bottle that mentality, do you know, and it's, it's the equivalent of like hundreds of hours of sports psychology, but he just has it. He doesn't care about the opposition who they are. He's not phased by the big occasion. And I think he likes Randy Farrell and, and the Ireland set up all of that. And, and certainly Ulster do. He's, he's so promising. So look, in terms of, so I'm, look, I'm reassured that there isn't a conspiracy, which is good. And I think, thank you all for, for doing that. But, um, we'll have a couple of questions here, just as we should have come to clues. Stephen McCormick sent an interesting one in slightly off what we were talking about just there. But, um, he says, should a general rule be that coaches shouldn't, shouldn't be from here to help aid fresh thinking and greater assurance of independence in judgment calls. He says his concern is over a damaging cushy culture embedded in the club. A coded message perhaps aimed at Johnny Bell, because he's the only, he's the only coach from here that I can think of. So, interesting question. Um, I'd probably just to comment on that a wee bit like the, you know, then this is actually, it was a very similar idea. It was hard basically in English football in the 90s and 2000s was that the best, some of the best coaches in the rest of the world. And we need to get them here coaching our boys to make our players the best. And now English football complains constantly about how there's no English man to take up the managerial role of English football. You can't, I think Irish coaches are good. I think we have, like, just generally, I think there's like, you know, no magnum hours over doing great work in other parts of the world. I did a lot of good Irish coaches. I think you want outside input, so I don't think you want what else to develop became a bit insular. I think you want to be able to have Irish coaches who are, you know, well-rounded and actually see rugby in other parts of the world. And it would have to be from different parts of the world. It's about seeing other ideas, seeing other coaches, seeing other experiences and then bringing that home when you get the chance for a big provincial job or a big gig with Ireland. So, now I've no issues with that personally. The idea of more foreign coaches doesn't always relate to better rugby or sort of a more diverse playing style among the problems. We've not had great experiences in Ulster with foreign coaches, I suppose. But yeah, what do you guys think? Is there an issue there? Should we, I completely, I think it's a really good comparison down about English football, which is always my point of reference for these things. But what do you guys think should we be bringing in sort of the top Italian coaches? Or farflon? Or farflon? What's that? Parla Monson all day to come in. Yeah. Over a Ulster defence coach. When you see some of the tries that we give away, then you do question what's happening from a coaching perspective. But you see a performance like Conner and that was a team who took on board everything that they were given during the week and performed it to the top level. So they can do it and the coach can do it. I just think it's something that it's inherent at a young team that's, excuse me, it's inherently a young team that's trying to find their way here and they will make mistakes. And I don't think that we should be blaming the coach for every mistake, it's a bit in pitch. Yeah, absolutely. I think there's balance there. I think the answer is balance. You bring in some guys which we have, not all that exotic sort of locations. Jimmy Duffy. So who's Jimmy as coaching experience elsewhere at Dan Super from New Zealand originally it's been here for many years. Dan Super by all the country very well, like Johnny Bell very well, Ritchie Murphy sort of slowly getting the band back together with the guys he's worked with. I think that's what Stephen was listening to, was this very well-liked thing? Right. You're right. Fair. Fair. I thought it was all to be said for that in my opinion. Would you rather players like the coach or dislike them? Exactly. 100%. I think that's so important. The only thing that most people say is do they really truly respect them would be the only thing that you need. You don't need to be liked, you don't want to be hated either, but do they just respect your opinion and do they just, they do they properly listen to it. The only real thing that coaches any sport want, you know, they don't have to be your best mate. In fact, you just have to have a working relationship and that's what most of those guys want, you know. Do you think you can't get a coach that I can respect your opinion of? Yeah. I'm probably one of the few that is really highly respected and clearly very well-liked. It's a very enough thing in sport. Yeah, that's very true. Yeah, I think the sense I get is they all really respect the likes of Richie Murphy and there's that aura about him as well. You know, he's not all pally. I think, again, a lot of this comes from football, but you see football coaches trying to be all pally with players. It's cringy. You know, you're using their nicknames and stuff in the media and you're like, nah, there needs to be that degree of separation. So, Steve, I haven't really answered your question. I think there's a balance to be struck. And just as we finish off here, there's a couple of games coming up over the next couple of weeks, let's see. So, it's Zebra and then Bamut them. So, maybe have a couple of very brief predictions for that, but let's look ahead. I think the big news is the Bordeaux game and we're one of you guys going over to that or is there any plans or yeah, Ian? Well, hoping to, but at the minute, it's just, it's a wee bit of limbo until actually get the what day the games will be played on. Peter, but at the minute, I would be very hopeful of getting there. Yeah, Dolly, are you heading as well or nothing? I'm saying this, Ian. I just need, I would like to get the date because I'd be thinking about a bit of Sunday game a bit. That's my feeling, aren't it? The friends who come behind playing their home games on Sunday and, you know, just makes for a very, very long weekend when you're going more than likely on the Friday and coming back on the Monday. So, I'm waiting to see what sort of money sports sports. Yeah, and look to see what sort of money sports bikes are going to put on. This one, they were extremely expensive for the Toulouse trip. So, if it comes down a couple of hundred quid, well, then I'll be jumping on that plate. Absolutely, as I'm sure, hundreds of other Ulster fans will want to as well. And Nathan, are you going to the next round? Are you going away with Lancer? They're not away with who you're going with. Sorry, they never need to go away, sorry, or will you just stick to Lancer? As an honoree Ulster fan, we'd be going to Bordeaux. I'll go wherever I'm paid to go, Peter. I'm the whore. You finally admit that. We'll have it on record. But a quick question, are you happy that Ulster qualified, or are you looking at the fact that the Sharks have got Leon away, the winner of Osprey closets, and then potentially conked in a run to the Challenge Cup final? Is there any part of you that's going to have for fans? I'm happy. I think you have to be happy to progress in a better competition. What do you guys think? Yeah. Yeah, I agree. At the end of the day, given the choice, you want to play and test yourself against the best. And I think if we have guys like McCloskey here and Stockdale, returning, fit again, herring, and Stuart in the front row, then we'll go to go down there and put in a performance. Now, it's going to be a big ask, and that will be for any of the remaining teams in that competition to go to Bordeaux. Always keep thinking back. We held them, we actually led them for most of the first half and into the second half at home. That stands to us, to know that we can compete against them. And a bit more experience in there, who knows, I'm not expecting us to be. Well, I actually expect us to come away with a win. Yes, love it. And then take the other two top 14 teams down as well and meet Linseter and Cardith in the final. Well, I love it. I think in the spirit of Nathan's 1994, Ireland jersey, give it a last check. We print those t-shirts up, I think, for the away trip. Love it. So, look, in terms of the, in a word or a sentence, just as we clues up here, do you think Ulster will win the pair of Italian games we have coming up? Should we have Zebre at home and then Bennett in a way, we'll start with Dan. Do you think we'll win those two? Be Zebre. We will lose to Bennett in a way. Yeah. Away is looking like one of the toughest games in Europe, like for the last while. It's completely goes under the radar. Like, it seems on the commentary or the poetry all the time. Some people send a mention on top of this going on, but in the zip, it's like Stoke City on a Tuesday night. But, like, they're good. They're seriously good rugby team at home. Like, I do think they have their sort of failings or even mum. But, like, especially in the middle of the six nations, you're not going to have your full team. I'd be very surprised if you can get a result in Bennett and I think that they're a really tough side to go to. I think points of any description against them were pretty good, but a win would be incredible, I think, going to Bennett these days. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Nathan, how do you fancy all sorts of chances of getting those games? Yeah, winning on Sunday. School's match beforehand as well, worth mentioning on Sunday, isn't it? All of them. That was Vambridge. Yeah, who wins that? El Classic, who? Sullivan, hopefully win. That's it. Sullivan, Sullivan should win, which means they'll lose. Well, that's what I might leave after that one, to be honest, leave the Ulster game, the rest of these. I would be a bit more optimistic about Bennett's and this is, Bennett's and are probably going to be a bit more hit by Italian call-ups, aren't they? So I would necessarily share Dan's pessimism on that one. I think it'd be a very interesting game. I don't think Ulster would be quite happy with their losing voters point, though, in that one. Yeah, yeah. We need to avoid that as well, if I want to make it. Do you need two wins? Look at the table. Yeah, and in a sentence, Dan Ulster will win those two. Short, short sentence? Two wins. Yeah, I love your positivity and it's refreshing. Well, we'll look deeper at home if we don't win, you know, we'll sack everybody just done it in a way in the middle of the six nations. They provide the biggest vote. It's a bit like Lannister. They provide the biggest vote for the Italian national team, so they'll be showing up most of their frontline players and we don't. We're not losing a lot of people and potentially would have one or two coming back to best to score in any case. No, I would be quite optimistic about going to go to Italy and get a result against them. If they lose to Zebra, I'd give contracts to whoever wins the school's game on Sunday beforehand. It'd be better off. Get them in there, yeah. I really hope they don't lose, and I think it'd happen. We're making fun of these scenarios, but fingers crossed, we're all right at home against Zebra. That's your banker every year. You hope to win that one, and if nothing else, and ban it, then I maybe think about it. Nothing else. Sullivan might be Brownbridge beforehand. Yes, exactly. He'll be very happy with that one. So, thank you guys. Thank you, Ian, Nathan, Dan, as always. Look, there won't be in terms of announcements. There won't be a pod next. In fact, there will be a pod next week, but it's a live podcast at Hearthpob, so we'll not do one on Monday night, as usual. I'll try and get a recording of that if my technical abilities allow, and you can listen to that back. Or, if you're going, really look forward to seeing you there. It should be a fun night.
To discuss Ulster’s hammering of the Chiefs at Fortress Ravenhill I’m joined by Ian, Nathan and Dan.