An official message from Medicare. A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. You may be able to save, too. With Medicare's Extra Help Program, my premium is zero and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year or a married couple who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. Go to ssa.gov/extrahelp paid for by the US Department of Health and Human Services. This is the Alien UFO Podcast Episode 134, and I'm your host Simon Bound. My mission here at the Alien UFO Podcast is to investigate all things that are part of the wider UFO phenomena. I'm looking at UFO sightings, alien abduction, historic cases, and other related events. And you can enjoy the extended version of this episode ad-free, along with over 120 hours of extended episodes on Patreon. This week I'm talking to Dr. Simeon Hein about his book, Black Swan Ghosts, a sociologist encounters witnesses to unexplained aerial craft, their occupants, and other elements of the multiverse. Dr. Simeon Hein is the director of a research and teaching company, the Mount Baldy Institute, which gives people the opportunity to learn virtual viewing, a type of institution training that taps into our creative, unconscious intelligence. He also studies crop circles and takes people on crop circle tools. Hi Simeon, thanks a lot for coming on the podcast. Thanks a lot for having me, Simon. So we're going to be talking about your book, it's called Black Swan Ghosts. Right. What are Black Swan Ghosts? Well, thanks for asking. I got the idea related to UFO counters from this concept that already exists of Black Swan events. And Black Swan events are events in our minds that we discount because they're very improbable. And they also have a really disproportionate impact on our lives or on society, partly because we've been ignoring them. And partly because we haven't had a lot of experience with them in our collective memory. So, and the idea comes from the philosopher, thinker, Naseem Taleb, who wrote the book called The Black Swan. And he also has books called Antifragil and other books that cause us to look at reality differently than how we're taught in school. And looking at all of the UFO witnesses that I had encountered ever since I started in the field of remote viewing, I realized that if we were to bring all these witnesses forward, all at once in front of Congress or any sort of other official event where the public could hear the stories of these witnesses. And some of them are very credible people who've served in the government and the military. That would be like a Black Swan event because we aren't really prepared for the consequences of considering the impact of not just the existence of extraterrestrials. Or what's now called NHI, non-human intelligence, but that they're already here interacting with the Earth. They may already be here interacting with us and we don't even recognize what's going on. So, I called it a Black Swan Ghost event just because not only is it a Black Swan event to realize NHI and ET exist and they're here interacting with the Earth. But it's so out of the mind of the general public it's almost like a ghostly event because we don't even consider it even possible with mainstream modern thinking. So that's why I call it Black Swan Ghost. And you were talking about bringing all these people in front of Congress. Do you feel like the government's playing catch up with all this kind of stuff? There's a people out there who say we need disclosure, the government needs to tell us what they know what's going on, but maybe the government's clueless and they just don't want to talk about it because they don't want to show that they're clueless. Well, that's in part what makes it a Black Swan event. And because the government in our country here in the US, it's not a monolithic agency. You have these different branches of government and they're designed to check each other in part due to the colonists experience with UK a few hundred years ago. The UK government kind of authoritarian monarchy and the colonists created this constitution where the different branches check each other. And you can see that happening right now as legislation's being proposed within the Congress Chuck Schumer and others, very senior senators to demand that the other branches of the government tell us what they know about the phenomena. Primarily the Department of Defense. So the main point is that it's not like the government's just one monolithic coherent entity. It has a lot of branches and they are designed to fight with each other and challenge each other in what's called checks and balances. Now with the UFO ET issue what's happened is in order to escape these checks and balances various organizations within the Department of Defense have used what's called special access programs. And another term that recently came to light IRADs these are research and development projects where they can evade these checks and balances from Congress. And claim that what they're doing is so critical to the defense of the United States that they don't need to reveal any information at all. In what's usually a process where Congress can find out what are these programs how much is being spent what's the purpose of these programs. In the case of these special access programs Simon and some of them are called not just saps but who saps waved unacknowledged special access programs and I imagine you have them in the UK too. They can completely evade any oversight from Congress which poses a real challenge and a crisis to democratic republic like the US thinks of itself as because you don't have these checks and balances anymore. And the people who are paying for this the Congress can't find out where this money is going and we're talking about trillions of dollars over the decades. Where's the money going what's being used for we suspect based on the witnesses that have come forward so far. David Grush and others over the years and people I interviewed for black swan ghosts. They tell us that these programs are alive and well and that Congress doesn't know about them at least not in an open forum. So that's really the issue is does do some aspects to answer your question to some aspects of the government know about this and are they deliberately deceiving the other branches of government. And do you think that there's a lot of compartmentalization. Yeah compartmentalization yeah you hit the key word here that's the content. Right another way of thinking of it is stovepiped and I've taught people I've talked to who've been involved with these special access programs who you know told me very generally they haven't revealed any classified information to me. But they've told me that this compartmentalization is so severe at this point. Because you know there's this idea assignment that secrecy creates more secrecy you know to create secrecy you need to create programs that enforce that secrecy and then those initiatives need to be secret so it just keeps reinforcing itself in a kind of an Orwellian way. That the secrecy and that compartmentalization is so strong within these special access programs that to my knowledge have access to crash retrieve technology from crashed craft crashed UFOs and other ways that they may obtain this technology that the compartmentalization is so strong that the science isn't even very good within these programs you would think Simon after all these billions and billions that are spent every year on these programs allegedly and it's my belief that this is true based on the witnesses I've talked to and I mentioned them in this revised edition of lax one goes that you would think the science would be spectacular right but it's not just based on the amount of money you spend based on your ability to ask questions to talk to other people in your program in your project to get other experts to give you their advice in the case of UFO assignment. They can't talk to other people even in their same program on the other side of the room at another desk or next door they're not allowed to talk to these people each person is working on a certain specific aspect of how UFO technology works. Based on the witnesses I've talked to this is they tell me this is how it works. The crash retrieved materials come to them from NASA or Jet Propulsion Laboratory in a sort of secret process to these different aerospace companies and it's so compartmentalized within these aerospace companies and the people that work in these programs they have huge budgets but they are not allowed to talk to other people who are involved in the same project. So what they end up doing Simon according to my knowledge is they end up looking at videos and photographs of this material and they're asked to figure out how the technology works. And we're dealing again according to my information I haven't handled this in technology myself but people I know who have tell me and I've talked to three of them so far over the years engineers that worked on this crash retrieved material. It is so far ahead of our technology that you need to ask a lot of questions but you can't because it would violate the rules of a special access program, which like you said is highly compartmentalized even within the program it's stove pipe. So one scientist that worked on these programs told me the money is good but the science isn't. And that's the challenge is are we short siding, are we short siding ourselves with respect to the information we could be having right now about the nature of our interaction with extraterrestrials and their technology. Are we limiting that because these programs are so compartmentalized which would, you know, create a kind of an analogy here, pushing ourselves back to a sort of pre Copernican understanding where it's not that the earth's the center of the universe, it was, you know, the heliocentric theory, the solar system, the sun, but are we at a stage like that now where we can't get to the next stage because we can't even have a public discussion about this. And Simon, a lot of people are upset about this in the US and it's not just UFO researchers and people like myself that have an interest in this topic for several decades. It's people in Congress who've been getting briefed on it in classified briefings in the so called skiffs, you know these compartmentalized sensitive compartmentalized information facilities. They've been briefed. I'm told from someone I talked to within the UAP task force since 2017 since that big New York Times article came up. But they are not really getting too much information about it. They know these programs exist. It seems that they've been shown videos of crash retrieval and extraterrestrial bodies. But they can't talk about it publicly. They can't talk about it to the other members of Congress who don't have the classification qualifications that they have. So it's proceeding very slowly, and that's the challenge right now. So some parts of the government like some aspects like oversight committees within the Senate and the House here in the US want to find out where this money is going, but so far. If they know where it's going, they can't do very much about it. But at the same time, legislation is being introduced right now into the so called NDAA National Defense Authorization Act, which has to be passed every year by Congress. It's all the spending on defense. Chuck Schumer introduced legislation right now a bill that says no money shall go to any special access programs involved with UFOs. How about that? Until we find out what's going on. So I think it is moving in the right direction. It's just slow. And until then, we have a lot of witnesses. I've spoken to some of them. I'm sure they would love to come forward and tell their stories, but they tell me they're afraid that there's going to be reprisals from the federal government in the forms of civil penalties and even jail sentences if they talk about what they've seen. It seems like the whole system was set up by people are so paranoid that this information will get out. They just crushed the science and they even don't care about the science in a way. There's two sides to it. They say, well, we've got to learn about this technology. We've got to work it all out on the other side. They're saying, but don't tell anybody until you can't have both. No, you really can't. And I think democratic societies like the ones that you and I believe we live in. There has to be a balance, right? Nobody wants to reveal information that would damage the national security of any of the five eyes countries, US, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, which we know share information about this topic and share information about UFOs, UAP as they're called recently. None of us want to reveal information that would give our adversaries any sort of military advantage. And the technology involved here is generations past what we currently have. We're talking about craft that can move around at tens of thousands of miles per hour make right and turns going visible, trans medium interactions go between the air and the water and even into solid surfaces. Apparently, nobody wants that to get to our adversaries at the same time. If we go too far in that direction, then we don't have any necessary discussions, which I think the public needs to have. Basic level of information. So their representatives can have an intelligent conversation, just like any other topic that we talk about from day to day, we have to have the basic facts to be able to have intelligent conversations. So you are right, Simon, the whole thing's been really dumbed down ever since the 50s. And it's not like you can't imagine what they were thinking back in the 50s. I'm talking both in the UK and the US. You know, you had the potential of this Soviet threat, right, Stalin was in power back then. And you know, they had this real concern that there was already enough possibility of a nuclear exchange. We don't want to panic the public even more. And that's sort of what the Robertson panel came to the conclusion, this CIA created panel in the 50s, which is sort of where the secrecy, one of the places it started. You know, where they said there's already enough tension right now this could cause kind of a panic to talk about little green men and so forth. So we should create measures to create disinformation. But that's in the 50s. It's a long time ago. It's before you and I were born, right? Yeah. Unfortunately, that program, those disinformation programs have never gone away. So you have the public paying for the federal government, which in turn creates disinformation programs, which confuse the public for decades about the true nature of this phenomenon. And I think it's high time. You know, just like any other issue we've ever dealt with that we have a public process, which means talking about just the fact that it exists. And it's real and not completely denying it like it's been happening. I'm not saying reveal all the details of how the technology works. When I'd even broached this subject with scientists who've worked in, in OSAP and ATEP, these these programs within the Department of Defense since I think around 2006 or so. And I'm probably before that, that, you know, these secretive programs, some of them were classified. The, you know, the secretive programs to find out how the technology works. We're not saying reveal the inner secrets when I've even broached some of the topics. These some of these people have gotten a little defensive and I'm just talking about stuff that I read in science magazine, which comes out once a week and I've been reading that magazine for 30 years. And they're talking about many materials. They're talking about topological insulators. These are exotic materials with physics properties that allow them to do cloaking and invisibility, bend light, refract energy in ways, make objects look like something else. You can imagine all the military applications of this. Well, it shouldn't be just confined to military programs because these technologies could have a lot of advantages and just ways that we live, you know, reducing pollution, increasing energy efficiency and so forth. So there's got to be a balance struck here. So the witnesses I've talked to over the years can feel safe in coming forward and telling us their stories because I think people would be amazed. And I have to tell you, Simon, one thing, some of the best witnesses I've encountered are not even in black swan ghosts, not even in the revised second edition, because they simply are afraid. They've told me they're afraid if their story goes public that it could impact them in some way. They don't feel safe from the long arm of the government. In fact, some of these witnesses, if you listen over the years have been told by representatives from the Air Force, the government has a long arm, just as the Air Force is leaving with the materials that you may have found from a crash site or something. The government has a long arm. They really threaten people going all the way back to Roswell, even children were threatened. So we need to remediate this and deal with it like any issue, civil rights, extending the franchise right of women to vote, which would have been an issue 100 years ago or so. You know, and then in the civil rights movement, giving everyone the right to vote regardless of skin color. I mean, it's sort of like that type of issue. I say extend the franchise like we did to any ethnic group, you know, eliminate discrimination in terms of representation and voting. That should apply to contactees. Also people that have had contact with the phenomenon, whether their experiences or experiences or people that have worked for the government researching these materials. I think we should hear what they have to say in a controlled setting in Congress, a congressional hearing, something like that here in the US. I think it would go a long ways to healing a lot of these divisions we have on the planet right now. You remember Ronald Reagan was the one who said in the 80s at some speech to the UN that if you made some references, if we talked about this alien threat, I think that's the word he used. How much it would bring us together. Don't you think this is the time within my country and within the world as a whole? If we realized there's other species around us that are intelligent, maybe more intelligent than we are, it would bring us together. So there's a lot of benefits too. And maybe that's what some of these government Simon are afraid of. My piece might break out, right? What would you do that? They'd lose all their influence in their own country, wouldn't they? Right. An official message from Medicare. A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. Maybe you can save too. With Medicare's Extra Help Program, my premium is zero and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year or married couples who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. Go to ssa.gov/extrahelp. Paid for by the US Department of Health and Human Services. But you were talking about how whistleblowers worried that there may be repercussions if they come forward. And Bob Lazar is a guy that says he had access to stuff and there doesn't seem to be repercussions to him. So does that indicate that he made it all up then? I don't totally know. People who know Bob Lazar swear he's the real thing. Other good researchers have looked at him into his record. Can't quite make sense of what he's saying given his credentials of what he did at Area 51, which it doesn't seem to do with research. It seemed more to do with something more basic at the base, you know, like being a contractor for basic services there. I don't know the true story about Lazar. Maybe what you're saying is true. Or maybe there wouldn't be these repercussions. It's just that people who've come forward recently, like David Grush, who had a lot of experience in the intelligence community, worked in the military, and then was a presidential briefer and had a lot of access to these knowledge that these programs exist. He says there is a real credible threat to coming forward with this information if you've signed an NDA. And some of the witnesses, and it's a good question, because some of the witnesses wonder who my road about in Black Swan goes to a guy named Phil, who I met at different meetings in the Boulder Denver area. He said, screw the NDA. I'm going to tell you what I know. And he did. You can read about it in Black Swan goes. He worked for JPL, and he worked for JPL at an aerospace company, which he's never revealed to me who it was. And he told me he had a team with access to hundreds of millions of dollars in research funds to figure out how these materials work. And he said they could never figure it out. It was too far advanced, and it was definitely extraterrestrial. He's not the only person who's told me this. He came forward with his name, and he said, I don't care anymore. It was a long time ago. And there is some period of time, Simon, I believe it's 25 years if I'm not mistaken, where these NDA is expired. So maybe that was true in Phil's case, or maybe he's just such a patriot. He felt like, I think it's more important for the public to know about this, put it in your book. This is a quote I'll never forget. I asked him, so you thought these materials that you looked at, your team looked at at this aerospace company, you thought they were extraterrestrial. And he said, no, I know they were. He was 100% certain these are extraterrestrial materials. Think about that. Where are the materials coming from? Are they from crashes? Are they from vehicles that are deliberately shot down? Are they from extraterrestrial civilizations that are deliberately crashing them here to create some sort of technological evolution? That's a possibility too. I don't know where the materials came from. But everyone I've talked to about this tells me the same thing. They have these teams, and in some cases they do talk amongst each other, and they can't figure it out. It's too far advanced. Another person I came across that I did put in the book, but I didn't say their name because they've never totally given me permission to say who they are, but they're a very senior inventor within the computer industry. And this person told me the same sort of thing that Phil told me, but he wasn't quite as confident how much he could say, but he did tell me over the course of a few days at a conference that he examined a three foot piece of a cull of a UFO, a three foot section that was slightly curved based on the curve he estimated the craft would have been 80 to 100 feet in diameter. And he said point blank looking at this material under electron microscope. He said, it didn't originate on Earth because the isotopic ratios of the chemical elements are just different than what we find on Earth. You find them in other parts of the Milky Way, but you wouldn't find them here. You could make them. It would take years even to make a tiny cubic millimeter of it. But this was a three foot section of a haul. And he said, the technology was a thousand years or at least a thousand years ahead of our technology. It just was so finely constructed, you know, at an atomic level. We don't have the technology to do that yet. Adam by Adam. He said it literally interacted with the quantum vacuum that forms the basis of space and space time. So that would change the structure of space time that the craft would be propelled just because the density in front of it would be less. So it would be sort of like if gravity reduced on one side of you, you would sort of move in that direction, just being pushed by the higher forces on the other side. But he was more open about it. Then there's someone I encountered recently at a talk I gave, and he came up to me. He came up to me after the talk. And he said, you know, I know everything you said at this, some of the people were skeptical of this talk. He came up and said, I know everything you said was true because at my company I won't say which company it was it wasn't an aerospace company. He said it was engineering type company said we were given a piece to look at something. And I said, okay, what it was the talk around the water cooler, I mean, because he approached me after the talk after everyone had left. He said, I can't tell you, because I signed an NDA and the government could sue me out of existence. He goes, this is literally what he said. If I were to hide in the deepest steps of Russia, they would find me. And I can't tell you anymore, then that we looked at a piece of material and it's consistent with your talk you gave us. And then he got up and he said, you should probably forget we ever had this conversation. He was afraid. And this is what we're dealing with. I imagine Simon that there are thousands and thousands of witnesses out there that have worked as engineers in these programs who can't say too much because of that feeling that they could be sued out of existence because they're breaking an NDA that they signed, you know, so that's what we're dealing with. And the only way I can see to open this up more is, you know, I went to this, I went to this mock congressional hearing in 2013 it was called the citizen hearing on disclosure. I wrote about this in Black Swan goes at these 40 witnesses we heard from over five days from different countries, people like the people I'm talking about right now. But these are people from the military from the FAA who really had encountered this phenomenon were telling us, yeah, it's real and certain aspects of the government CIA and others are don't want the public to know. This congressional mock congressional hearing, and some of the witnesses were very strong even fighter pilots who had engaged in dogfights with these objects who told us. They let everything go that their fighter plane had and it still didn't affect the object at all. You know, incredible stuff that's designed to one shot would take out a craft and here after round after round nothing happened. We had a Congress a mock congressional hearing staffed by retired Congressmen and a senator, because no sitting senators or Congress people would attend this meeting they tried. So they had to pay retired members of Congress, but there was a mock congressional hearing like this. That's what we need. Now, a real congressional hearing. We're being told right now, Simon, because it's an election year, nothing's going to happen. And that's really disappointing to me. But I think this should be the year where someone is brave enough to have these hearings. You've had a number of Congress people and senators come forward. Marco Rubio and others who've come forward Chuck Schumer and mentioned who want to open this up. And I think it should be like the citizen hearing of 2013. You should have multiple witnesses, not this David Grash, Ryan Graves and Dave Faber, three people. I'm talking about days of hearings of people of that caliber or subpoena to come forward and tell us what is the reality we're living in here. Isn't everyone kind of curious at this point or like you're saying, Simon, are we going to be continuing to be dumbed down like it's been since the 50s? Where we're told that all of these sightings are, you know, temperature inversions, misidentified flocks of geese, swamp gas, or misidentifications of Venus's ridiculous explanations they've been making up ever since the 50s and Project Blue Book. To keep this under wraps. I don't think our society can really evolve till we deal with this topic. Will it be somewhat scary? Yes. It's admitting there's other intelligent life around. And if you want to know what I suspect Simon, why they really don't want this to come out. If you think about it, if this was just some discovery of extraterrestrial life in the universe way out there. They could say, you know, it's out there, but you know, it just doesn't come here very often and maybe just to observe us. And it doesn't really affect us. That would be one thing. I suspect you want to know what I really suspect. I think they're already amongst us. And they look like humans, like that movie from the 80s called They Live. Remember where you can see them with special glasses or something? Yeah, I suspect that's what we're dealing with. And the ramifications are so big that it might cause people to panic to be afraid to go outside. I think that's what we're dealing with. That's the only thing I think can think of that would create the secrecy year after year, decade after decade. Something like that. There's the thing with abductions, isn't there? And hybrid children and people saying the more they saw those children, the more they look human. And there was David Jacobs who said it was like some kind of invasion or something. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for bringing that up, Simon. That's another biggie. Let's say that's been going on. I don't know if the US government made a deal with the aliens in the 50s, as we're told. I don't know if that's a story, if that's real, whether Eisenhower said, okay, you can take some of us in exchange for technology. I don't know if that's true, but the abduction phenomena, their aspects of it that are definitely real. I've spoken to enough people who had this happen to them. What is that about who is involved in taking people for a couple minutes or hours or wherever long they're taken? I have a story of that even in black swan ghosts from remote viewer, Lynn Buchanan, who mentioned having a memory of this, and he wasn't sure if it was a dream or not until he had, and he worked in the DIA as a remote viewer in pretty sensitive areas, involved in nuclear weapons and things like this. So he wasn't sure if this was a real memory. People can read about it. He has two MIBs, Men in Black Come visit, about his so-called quote unquote dream. And one of them, he's describing how the Lynn was asked to fly the craft, the entity showed him how you fly one of these craft. And then Lynn said one of these MIBs looked like a scientist slapped his knee and said, so that's how they do it. Which led Lynn to believe this wasn't just a dream, this was a real screen, this was a real memory, not just a screen memory or real memory. So, you know, in giving your own background, Simon, in hypnotherapy, I would have to say that I think this experience is more widespread than we know. And it might release a lot of memories for people that maybe the powers that be, I'm just saying it's a possibility, don't feel that we're ready to deal with you en masse. It's like unraveling a ball of string and you're not going to get it rolled up again. So maybe the powers that be, we should give them a little credit here, maybe they're listening to this podcast saying, if you knew what we knew, you wouldn't want this to come out that quickly, you'd want it to come out slowly. So maybe we have to give them the benefit of the doubt, in a sense. Just revealing a little bit, the ball of string starts to unravel. I think in my, in Black Swan goes, I call it opening Pandora's box, right? And I suppose if it came out that alien abduction is real and then they realized what scale it's on. There'd be that idea that, well, the government can't protect us, the military's useless, they can't do anything to save us from this. Right, exactly. And that is one thing you're never going to have any government ever admit is they can't protect you. Our contract with the government and society at large. And this goes back to my undergraduate days at Wesleyan University in Connecticut, where we had classes in political theory and so forth. You realized about this sort of fundamental contract that Rousseau wrote about in John Locke, right? Is that modern people agree to obey laws in exchange for protection, right? Isn't that the basis of the social contract? And it's so ingrained to us from the time we go to preschool in kindergarten that you follow these rules and there's rewards for following the rules. And all of us in a Western society are brought up that it's a rules based society and you follow the rules and in exchange you get protection and a degree of consistency in a sort of freedom from worrying about certain things will take care of the fires. And police, if you call, right, so that idea that you're protected, and if that's not true, Simon, the very basis of the social contract. And this is a discussion John Locke could have engaged with us to hundreds of years ago, the politically liberal thinker who created the idea of sort of this liberal representation and so forth. It calls all that into question, because if they can't really protect you from this. And I'm not saying we need to be protected from this, but some people do have scary experiences and pleasant experiences. We don't know if it's inherently negative or if we're just like animals that are getting tagged for research purposes, whatever the reason is. The government would have to admit we can't do anything about it and no government ever could admit that because an authoritarian government could admit that to some degree, but not a democratically based government because that's the whole basis of our system is you agree to obey laws like it or not, in exchange for protection. And if they can't protect us, that means, well, symmetrically, then you don't have to obey the laws anymore. So no government's ever going to miss it, but I think you're right, that's what it is. And I have to tell you, there's one more aspect of it, which I got from discussion researching Bigfoot and Bigfoot encounters with another recent book Dark Matter monsters, which, you know, we could talk about another time. People don't remember their own experiences. That's the basis of this. There's a movie called A Flash of Beauty Bigfoot Revealed, and I was in the sequel called Paranormal Vic, but they did a second one. But in the first one, they had these psychiatric professionals saying that our brains and minds have very strong defense mechanisms and literally delete experiences that don't fit with what we expect reality to be like. And none of us know if we're doing this right now with our own experiences with ET or cryptids or Bigfoot or anything like this. And it's without hypnotherapy or some sort of psychological regression or something, you won't remember these experiences. So what that means, Simon, is we don't know the extent of our contact with extraterrestrials. And to take the other side for a second, and I'm sure our listeners can understand this, let's say it's much more extensive than any of us know, even those of us who are interested in this topic. That there's been a lot more contact and that our government really doesn't know what's going on. I mean, could they really say come out and say that? Or would that cause collapse of society as we know it? Where there's some big thing going on, people are being taken for experimental purposes or whatever the reasons are. And it's more widespread than we thought and you are not, I'm not remembering it and you're not remembering it and people aren't remembering it. And the memories start to come to the surface. Maybe that's a little too much. An official message from Medicare. A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. You may be able to save too. With Medicare's extra help program, my premium is zero and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year, or married couples who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. Go to ssa.gov/extrahelp, paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. You mentioned Lindbergh Cannon just now. I seem to remember in the book you were talking about how the remote viewers were tasked with trying to see UFOs at some point. Yeah, they were. Did they see anything? They were. There's stories of them seeing these rafts. And there's some disagreement when you talk to them. I've talked to other people in the program who said it was done unofficially. Like it wasn't like officially tasking the unit to look at UFOs. But you talk to people like John McMonacle, and he'll say it was unofficial tasking like they would just say, "By the way, can you take a look at this if you've got some spare time?" And there's that famous case of remote viewer Ingo Swan, the person that started the whole thing for the government, or the CIA-DIA program, who was paid to break a remote viewing system that the average person could do. There's that famous story of him viewing a Soviet submarine. And it's sort of a blind target. He doesn't know what he's looking at, but he gets to that it's a submarine. And then he says, "Well, something just passed over it really quickly, what we call a USO." So within that program, they did have knowledge of the existence of this phenomenon. And again, I'm not saying that there was official tasking, and if there was, we don't know about it, but there certainly was unofficial tasking of some of these programs. I mean, there's the famous story of Pat Price, one of the great viewers that worked at SRI, former police commissioner from Burbank, of just walking in one day and handing Russell Targ, a bunch of viewing sessions where he said, "I found four underground bases on the earth in various places, including Mount Hayes and Alaska and the Pyrenees and other locations." And I mean, he did that on his own. So again, it's not official tasking. And there's debate whether those were valid sessions, or was he just, you know, did he have a big imagination also? If it's been verified, we don't know about it, but it was funny that in Australia, there was a US intelligence agency base there, how put off told this story? He was involved in the SRI program and worked with Ingo. And he said, he was just talking to the station chief there for an outpost in Australia for the CIA. And he just asked, "Hey, anything interesting going on?" And he goes, "The guy said, "Well, not much except all that UFO activity around Mount Zeal, which is where, at Price said, one of these underground bases was located." So I guess remote viewing would be really good application to use it for underground bases, right? Since we can't see where they are. And we've viewed these from time to time with our remote viewing group. So we've gotten some results. Of course, we can't verify it. It's just unverified targets. But I think people would be surprised at the extent of US government knowledge of this activity. Under the oceans, underground, different places. Simon, just the people I've talked to, again, in various locations at conferences who've been on submarines. And those people, again, are held to the highest levels of security. Because, you know, the US government doesn't want any information coming out about the technology on our submarines. But I've been told by people who've been on those subs, in civilian contractors and so forth, that they have been there when USOs have been detected and the ship has gone to general waters because of fast moving objects much faster than you would think any object could move in the ocean being around those subs. So I imagine there's a lot of information out there. And, again, don't you think, and don't the listeners think they wouldn't just go a long way to evolving our society just to talk about it in general? I mean, when I grew up, Simon, there was Star Trek on TV. That did a lot for my imagination, just that show. And I know a lot of people at NASA said they were inspired to work for NASA by Star Trek, a fictional show. I think it's time to bring that sense of wonder and curiosity back to our lives with open and honest discussions about the extraterrestrial phenomena. It doesn't mean the government has to say everything, but even revealing one or two percent of it would be enough. Just stop ridiculing the witnesses and stop any of these disinformation programs and admit that it's real. And there are a lot of witnesses out there. I've talked to a bunch of them. Some of them are in Black Swan Ghost. Some of them made it to the new edition. And there's others I didn't put in there yet. Maybe they'll relent and let me put them in the third edition. There are a lot of witnesses out there and Congress has the power to bring these people to hearings to hear what they have. We've already had some of it happen with David Brush at all. And we haven't had much follow up from that. And Brush said, I'd like to say more about I signed NDAs. I can go to jail. He did tell the inspector general of the intelligence community. I think the so-called IGIC. And that guy said he found Russia's allegations credible and urgent. Not just urgent because Brush needed some sort of protection from talking about it. Urgent because it created a situation in our lives where you and I and our audience, they're experiencing things and they see things and they can't talk about it. And I think that's counter-revolution. I think it's counter-revolutionary and it goes against our values in Western society. Not to engage new ideas. There was a saying in a college I went to Hampshire College in Massachusetts to know it's not enough. Right? No, it's not enough. And it comes from the Latin. We were people that are based on the idea of examining evidence and following where it leads us. And we cannot shrink from that channel in our history right now. Just can't do it. We've had hundreds of years of breaking away from dogma, not just religious dogma, Aristotelian dogma. It was 2000 years where people said, well, if Aristotle didn't say it, it's not true. And David wouldn't wrote about this book called Discovering the invention of science where he talks about. You just had to have this idea that we looked at evidence, not just believing what you were told and what Aristotle said. It took a lot of effort for people to break away from that dogma, which is if it wasn't in Greek thinking it doesn't exist, to actually look at evidence. No, we've got a lot of evidence we could be looking at. And I think it's high time that we engage this evidence in a measured way so that we can begin the discussion and begin to grow up because right now we're like kindergarteners with this topic. And we should be moving along to first grade. And in the book you mentioned, you talked to a man at NASA who converted the Apollo films and he saw stuff on the moon. What sort of stuff did he see? This was one of my early contact with these types of witnesses way back at the far side in 1996. He was one of the people that really got my curiosity going. I mean, honestly, I had seen a UFO with my mom in the Everglades when I was 13. So I knew something was up, but I didn't have any contact with, I didn't talk to people about it. No one ever really mentioned it to me from that time onward, except to say, you know, it's not really real. So this is someone I meet in 96. And you know, about 20 years after mother sighting with my mom. And he says, I worked for NASA converting film 16 millimeter film to VCR, which would have made sense in the 80s. And he said, I saw film that hadn't been released to the public. That showed parts of the moon that the public hadn't been shown, and he said there were clearly structures there in the 16 millimeter films. Said without a doubt, they were built structures. They were very old, he said, and they look like they had been demolished in some sort of war or something, but there were glass domes and buildings and so forth. He said without a doubt, he could see him in these NASA films. And I think it suggests based on other witnesses I've talked to from NASA that NASA is complicit in this conference. Bill Nelson, you know, has had these press conferences. We're really, really doing our best. You know, the NASA administrator, we really want to find out what's going on here. We're having our own investigation. Well, I interviewed Dr. Richard Hoover. I met him at a UFO conference. He was speaking there in Scottsdale at the open minds, UFO conference conference. He was speaking about extremophiles, you know, these fossils, like fossils of extremophiles that were found in meteorites. And I talked to him extensively about this. He said he was NASA's leading exobiologist, and he had hundreds of peer-reviewed papers. One of the earth's top exobiologists, astrobiologists as they're called. They're looking for signs of life, cellular life, and not walk. ET's walking around levitating or anything like that. Talking about single-celled organisms, fossils of these organisms in meteorites. And he was told by NASA to cut it out. Just the study of fossils in carbonaceous meteorites, Richard Hoover. And he was so incensed by this about NASA's repeated attempts to get him to stop presenting at conferences, academic conferences. He told me if you looked at these fossils under a microscope, Simeon, you would come to the same conclusion that I did that these are warmer life forms. These are life forms that have been fossilized just like they happen on earth. Diatoms and others, small, really small organisms and single-celled organisms. And he said you could see them in these carbonaceous meteorites. And NASA's rebuttal was, well, it's contamination from the lab equipment. That's always the response to this sort of finding, is it's contamination. But he said you would crack these meteorites open right in the middle there. Your glalia meteorite and others. And you'd look and you'd see fossils of life. Which suggested to him and others. And I just saw another lecture about this at the cosmic summit in Asheville, North Carolina, just a couple of weekends ago. By an Indian fellow who had Richard, who I'd worked with, who also believed that there was evidence of single-celled life in meteorites and comments and so forth. And that's a whole kind of line of inquiry. Richard was just studying the fossilized versions of this. But he said, no, there is life everywhere in the universe because you find it in these meteorites, it's just all over the place. And apparently, you know, you found these sort of life forms on the International Space Station on the outside when they looked at them under a microscope, the dust of the outside of the International Space Station. And even putting probes up into our upper atmosphere, you know, 80 miles up, you would find these life forms which would have come in from space. And Hoover eventually quit over this. And he, before he quit, he asked, and this is in Black Swan Ghost. Because he rewrote the chapter to make sure I got it right. He asked someone at NASA why they were being told not to talk about this. And they said it's coming from the White House. The Obama White House thinks it would offend religious groups to have this conversation. Can you imagine that the White House suppressing a discussion of single-celled life forms in meteorites, fossil, not talking about living things that are coming here. We're talking about fossilized life forms. He said they weren't allowed to talk about it. And it wasn't just that, but he had another incident that I wrote about there, which is this amazing assignment. Is he was at the command center during one of the Skylab missions, which were missions in the 70s. And our Owen Gary, who was one of the astronauts in this Skylab mission, talked about seeing something outside the window and he got some photographs of it. And because Richard was listening into what's called the Capcom, the person that does communication to the Skylab up there or whatever the space mission is. And he asked about it and said, oh, I can't wait to see the photographs when they come back. And when he went to the photo lab, they told him that the photos had been accidentally deleted or something like this. There were no photos, even though he had heard it live that they were taking pictures of this and then he was told that the pictures didn't come out. And he thought, is he knew the guy at the picture center at NASA. And he was told the pictures didn't come out while he liked weird, you know, because he wanted to see these photos. And then he comes across this book, which was based on the movie. It was called UFOs. It has begun. And there's a second version called UFOs past present in future. It's a movie people can see on YouTube that was funded by NASA, the Department of Defense, a serious movie about UFOs, curiously enough from the late 70s. And in that book, where all the Skylab pictures taken by Owen Garrett, that Richard had been told didn't come out. So here is one of their top scientists, and they're not showing him photos of something outside Skylab, which looks like a structured craft. They're not even saying it's swamp guests, they're just saying other pictures don't even exist, and here it's in a book, right? So this shows you that NASA has been complicit in this cover-up of this whole discussion that we're having right now. It's widespread. The cover-up of the discussion of this subject, they won't even let their own scientists talk about fossils. Unmediering. So that's Richard, who was just another NASA person, Simon, who kind of conferred what this guy John had told me way back at Farsight in '96 is that NASA knows more about this subject. That's been great talking to you. The book's called Black Swan Ghosts, and people can get that on Amazon. And if you could just give us your YouTube channel again and your website. Sure. I mean, if people want to go to my YouTube channel, they can just look my name up or just go to my blog, New Crystal Mind. And it's got links to all these books and people can get signed copies and so forth. And it's got links to my YouTube channel and other activities and so forth. And yeah, if you do go on my YouTube channel, you'll see a lot of these interviews. The Black Swan Ghosts has a lot of interviews on the Black Swan Ghosts.com website where you can listen to Paul and Sonya. I have about, I think about eight or nine interviews up there. You can listen for yourself and see what these people told me. It's worth your time. You'll hear how strange some of these encounters are. And yes, Simon, it does seem a lot like science fiction, but it happened, you know. Yeah, fantastic. And great. Once again, thanks for coming on the podcast. Oh, thanks a lot, Simon. I really enjoyed it. Talk to you soon. And that was an interview with Dr. Simeon Hyne about his book, Black Swan Ghosts, a sociologist encounters witnesses to unexplained aerial craft, their occupants, and other elements of the multiverse. And a great way to support the podcast is to sign up to Patreon, where you can get exclusive access to the extended version of this episode. Just go to patreon.com/alienufopodcast. When you sign up, you get access to the episodes in the back catalogue, and they are ad-free, and are released two days before the free versions. And if you want to try out the extended episodes, you can now get a seven-day free trial. There are two tiers. In the three dollars a month tier, you get an extended episode every month, and in the six dollars a month tier, you get an extended episode every week. My website is parsliveshypnosis.co.uk, and the link is in the show notes. And in my work as a clinical hypnotherapist, I take people through Parslife regression. And I'm offering a free consultation call, which can be booked on my website. And if you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review, and be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or via your favourite podcast app to make sure that you don't miss out on any episodes. And thanks for listening. [Music] Did the human circle makers ever have weird experiences? I suppose if they're out in the middle of the night, in the darkness? Absolutely. It's a great question too, Sam. I spoke to a lot of these circle makers. I was originally very hostile to them, because we were told that these were halter. An official message from Medicare. A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. You may be able to save too. With Medicare's Extra Help program, my premium is zero, and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year, or married couples who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. Go to ssa.gov/extrahelp, paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
This week I'm talking to Dr. Simeon Hein about his book 'Black Swan Ghosts: A Sociologist Encounters Witnesses to Unexplained Aerial Craft, Their Occupants, and Other Elements of the Multiverse'.
