213Hoops: The Lob, The Jam, The Podcast

Clips Lose Semis Heartbreaker to MEM

Lucas and Shap get together to talk about a tough loss to the Memphis Grizzlies, 99-98 in a game that featured quite of NBA experience on the other side, and one where Jordan Miller thrived but fouled out down the stretch. The guys break down the game, talk in detail about the team's major future players, and touch a bit on every player that played for the impressive Summer League Clips.

Duration:: 1h 1m
Broadcast on:: 22 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

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Well, you know, I didn't, I guess when I said that I wouldn't be able to watch the semi-final game, I wasn't thinking that it would be at 11 a.m. So it kind of worked out for me that I was able to watch it and then now we're recording later in the evening. So it's all good. Yeah, that's totally fair. The Clippers gave us a game, a game that they did not win for the first time this summer, but it was a game losing 99 to 98 to the Memphis Grizzlies who had Gigi Jackson and Scotty Pippen Jr. who are seasoned guys that played plenty of games and played well last year and and and Jalen Wells was on fire from deep after being not on fire the entire summer. Shout out those guys who played quite well and pretty much, you know, were responsible for the majority of the Grizzlies offense, but we're here to talk about the Clippers. The Clippers had another strong showing from Jordan Miller, 28 points. I'm doing that box score thing again, Lucas, four for five from deep, four assists, two boards, really great and stuff in the fourth quarter, especially from Jordan. Kobe Brown did this as best as he could to carry the offense a little bit down the stretch with Jordan out and with some sides from Usudia Bate as well, but was not able to and missed went one for two from the line with game on the line to tie the game with, I believe, about one point seven seconds left, went to a jump ball tipped and that was the game. Usudia Bate at 16 points. We saw some good defense from Leger Harkla's. I cannot say enough about Cam Christie, who finally had his breakout game since for 11 from deep. A majority of his points came in the first half, but he had a huge shot in that corner on a Kobe drive that looked identical to the drive that Kobe had in the third quarter. Cool stuff from him. And that was the last go ahead lead that the Clippers had before. Reggie Dennis had an unfortunate fast break that he kind of forced with the Clippers up a point. A fun game, Lucas, a fun summer for these Clippers, probably the most fun summer league I can recall for this Clipper team. Oh, yeah. And it was a very felt like a particularly fruitful one. Obviously, it's summer league. There are things that you don't want to totally jump off with. But I think that there were points of positivity with quite a few of these players, Lucas. Yeah, yeah. And this just overall, I think, I mean, this is the best summer Clippers team ever. The Clippers have never had a summer like this before. There have been other good summers where, you know, it doesn't really matter if you win or lose in summer league. It's not really what it's about. Right. And like the year that Blake Griffin was in summer league obviously was just a really exciting time for the whole fan base. The year that Shea was in summer league, I think was, you know, was really fun. I was there that year. I've been only a couple of times, but that was one of the years that I went. And so sort of getting to be around everyone while we were like seeing who Shea was for the first time was really exciting. But yeah, this is like the best, you know, best coached Clippers summer league team that they've ever had. And when I when I try to sort of just gauge relative strength of summer league teams, you know, it's really hard because these, these teams only have a week together to get ready, then they have a week together where they play four or five games and you see what happens. But I look for first round draft picks and NBA experience. To me, that is what like the most important thing is, has someone been good in the NBA already? If someone has already been good in the NBA, they should be good in summer league. And then how many first round picks do you have on your team? Some teams go to summer league with no first round picks on their roster because of trades or injuries or whatever. Some teams go to summer league with five or six first round picks from the last three years on their roster. So there should theoretically be, you know, a lot of talent in those groups. This Clippers team, you know, has one first round pick. It's Kobe Brown, who was the 30th overall pick last year. They've got a couple of, you know, of second round picks. But it's, it's not a remarkably proven team. There's not a lot of talent pedigree on the team. And you look, you know, across it. I mean, Jalen Wells kind of came out of nowhere today, right? But like Scotty Pippen, Jr. and Gigi Jackson were both good, insignificant NBA minutes last year for the Memphis Grizzlies, who obviously, you know, everyone was hurt for Memphis last year. It was a terrible loss season for them. I mean, even Trey Jamison, who we saw today, who was really, you know, kind of a bully, played 500 minutes for the Grizzlies last year and averaged, you know, like 10 and 10 per 36 or something like that. I don't have it in front of me, but he was solid. He's a very young guy. He was solid. And I thought he was, he was decent today too. So yeah, just a real, a real talent disparity, I thought just on paper. And the Clippers played really well. And I think Jordan Miller, you know, has to be the guy this summer. This is Jordan Miller summer. He, I feel like he won't win summer league MVP. But I think he will be on the all summer league first team, well deserved all summer league first team. And yeah, I mean, he's, he has done everything that he could do, which is he, you can't have conversations that his name isn't a part of anymore, right? And I think last year, when you're talking about, well, if this guy's out, we could set up the rotation this way, blah, blah, blah, like Jordan's name didn't even get mentioned in those conversations, but you know, not at least until like March when he would hit, he had been killing in the G League. But now going into training camp, he's not going to be in the top 10 rotation, but you start talking about, well, when Kawai's out, how do we move stuff around, Jordan Miller's name is going to be in the competition in the conversation. He's going to have a chance to come compete with some of these other second unit, third string guys for, you know, developmental and injury fill in minutes. And that is a really big step forward for him. Yeah, Lucas, you know, you talked about Jordan Miller possibly being a three slash four, well, the guy that's a three slash four is Kawai Leonard. And if Kawai Leonard does get hurt, could you slot Jordan Miller in those minutes? Could you slot, not in Kawai starting minutes, but off the bench? Could you comfortably have him play some four in the NBA will be a question that we can maybe have answered when the Clippers inevitably have some injuries that they need to cover up with? I was really encouraged by really virtually all of the bigger names on this roster, aside from Musa, who I think has is good, but still has question marks. The same question marks he had last summer, the same question marks he had in G League. I think Kobe Brown has question marks, but I think that the Clippers did well just showing his on ball prowess, you know, that he's not going to be a point guard in the game. But showing his ability to do that, especially these last couple of games, it's just encouraging when Kobe is going to be in more of those short roll situations, kind of to process the game a little bit, you know, even if he gets that shot, once he puts the ball on the floor, you have pretty good confidence that Kobe is going to make the next best play, then we'll just have to be the shot. He didn't shoot too many times because he's been playing point guard. But I like seeing that from Kobe, that was encouraging. Kim Christie, of course, had his breakout game of the summer. And I thought he was great all game, even though he didn't get as many shots up in the second half. And you know, even the other guys, like we've talked about, you know, Dennis, I thought, showed enough of a of a game management thing that we've been talking about. He was he had a rough day today. Yeah, he was not great today and not particularly, but I mean, Scottie Pippin, Scottie Pippin Jr. might be the guy who beats out Jordan Miller for MVP of Summer League. Like that's who who Ray J. Dennis was going up against and, you know, he he he lost the matchup, right? This is a long Memphis team that a pretty good defensive Memphis team. One that'll muck up a smaller guard. You know, I feel like we talk a lot about James Hardin's issues with length. You know, who probably would have issues with length? The Ray J. Dennis. Yeah. Yeah, he did not have a great game today by turnovers or forces made a couple of four decisions late in this game. But I don't want the one bad game to erase some good stuff we've seen from him all summer. Yeah, I think Elijah Heartless, you know, showed us good defense even in this game too. He was a plus 12 did not shoot particularly well, but still was big defensively had a huge steal and dunk once Jordan Miller vowed out that kind of stopped the bleeding as well. Just good stuff from especially, you know, these six or so guys, the big rotation guys. And that's encouraging, you know, I rarely have felt this encouraged collectively from a group of players. I felt like I'll had some questions like you mentioned, no big pedigree names on this team. Colby Brown is the highest one as a 30th pick. So for them to all show out like this and kind of collectively come together, it's encouraging for me. I left pretty encouraged with how they performed, how they looked as a unit, and what they're going to look, you know, not just in possible NBA men's, but in the G League. I think of that stuff matters how your G League team looks and and how you improve camp, Christie, I think, especially really showed me that this guy's a shooter, like he's a shooter in every degree of it. He's yes, he needs to put on some weight. Yes, like, he needs to maybe put on some weight, not just offensively, but defensively needs to make some processing decisions. That also comes to teenager, but he's a shooter. He can put the ball on on the dribble for one step going one side or the other. He's a great mover off the ball. He's got a great release point at a six five six six frame with long wingspan that makes that release point even harder to contest. Even now he had a couple of off-the-bounce dribble shots that weren't able to be contested for that reason to, or at least not a clean contest. He did have a couple that were contested and like he missed, but he's a shooter with like a capital S and, you know, that's that's something for a teenager. So I've come out of this just like pretty optimistic about all these guys to different degrees, but optimistic, Lucas. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily say I'm optimistic about all of these guys because I think once you say optimistic, right, you start, you're starting to look, I think of it as starting to look towards, okay, what's next for them, right? I care about the G League team. Well, sure, sure. Okay, so if you're like, I mean, I think I tweeted today, it was being, you know, a little sarcastic saying that Kobe and Musa were like going to be a dynasty front court for the San Diego Clippers for the next decade, right? And, but I mean, but yeah, no, I think that I think that all four of those main guys that we talk about, right, the guys who have like kind of roster aspirations or are roster, Cam Pristy, come around on the 15-man roster for next year, Jordan Miller on a two-way contract for next year, Musa di Abate competing for a two-way contract next year after being with the team, you know, on a two-way contract previously, all four of those guys had good weeks. They could feel good about the week they had. They went out, they played well against the level of competition that they were going up against. And to your point about, you know, doesn't matter if the G League team is good or what are the vibes, right? Development and environment are so connected. And so to have an environment that is built for you to be successful in, where there's a positive culture, where there's good team chemistry, where there are solid, you know, fringe NBA level talent professionals around you, there's year-to-year consistency in roster and coaching and system so that, you know, when Cam Pristy walks into San Diego Clippers training camp this fall, he's going to actually be with a group of guys. I mean, Xavier Moon, I don't think we'll be back, which is, you know, was sort of the centerpiece of that team in recent years. Big culture loss. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, you know, maybe he will be back. I don't know, but just him going elsewhere for summer league and not being too eligible anymore kind of makes me question that. But we'll see what happens in the fall. So I hope for his sake, he gets something else, right? But to be even just to be able to come and be like, oh, there's coaching consistency. And actually, like, Musa and Jordan and Kobe have all been playing down here a bunch in recent years. Guy like Elijah Heartless was on that Ontario Clippers team going to be San Diego Clippers team last season. I think it's, I think, you know, it's a good environment and they're investing a lot with the rebrand to take that G League team to San Diego, building that whole compound for the players to live and train in. I mean, I think it's, I think it's really a good, a good setup. I feel better about Jordan and Cam having NBA futures where they contribute to the Clippers. Then I do about Kobe and then kind of another gap for to how I feel about Musa's prospects of really being an impact player at the next level. But, you know, I think they, they all had good weeks and, you know, Musa even had like a second jump today. That was really good. Yeah. Yeah. That, you know, what got a, got a tweet out of me. So yeah, you know, they, that when you're winning, everything is better. You know, relationships are better. Confidence is better. Someone who has a bad game bounces back easier. If it's a bad game during a winning streak, then a bad game during a losing streak. Everything is better when you're winning. And this team came out here and they won all week, you know, until obviously losing by one on a free throw with two seconds left today in the semi-final, but still like on the whole of this Clippers team was one of the best few teams in Vegas this summer. I don't think anyone would argue with that. And, you know, that just means the vibes are good. It means that they're going to carry a lot of that confidence with them into training camp and into the G League season. And hopefully that means that there's opportunities for growth for these guys and their individual careers as well. Yeah, Lucas, I kind of want to talk about those, those three guys you mentioned with a little bit more focus. But let's take a quick break and come back after this. All right, we're back. So Lucas, you know, I feel like we've talked about Jordan Miller a lot. You know, his stats speak for themselves. He scored it was scoring over 25 points per game in his five games out there shot pristinely from every, every which way you look at it. He was great this summer league. You know, I think you talked a little bit about his ability to kind of float and still score. You know, this was an interesting game for him. I thought that he found a bit of his aggression in that fourth quarter that really kept this game from sort of becoming a blowout. I mean, the Grizzlies went on something like a 17 to two run to end that third quarter to take a lead back and they were about to go up double digits before that Jordan Miller four point play. What kind of stood out to you most? Because I feel like we've talked about his kind of opportunistic scoring. But 25 points per game is still nothing to sniff at. What kind of stood out to you as far as Jordan Miller's prospects that made you a little bit more assured at his ability on the NBA level? Yeah, I, you know, some of the one of the most fun things I think about this week of Clipper summer basketball was him kind of working on that deceleration move in real time where he gets going downhill. And then in those two steps, he like stops. You just bear he's you still you can't stop completely, but he goes from going fast to like barely moving. And the defender goes past him with the defender grabs his arm. He creates space, right? And he talked about, you know, trying to start working on that in the spring and then getting injured and kind of doing it in live reps for the first time here this summer. And that was fun. But I just don't know how many how many opportunities to make plays like that. Or like you said, you know, there definitely were moments where he took a little responsibility late at some of these games. And, you know, with I think with some mixed results, but also the Clippers are never, you know, not even just this season, but probably ever. Jordan Miller's not going to be in a situation with an NBA team where it's like, Hey, Jordan, we kind of need you to take responsibility for the offense right now. Right. And he knows that he's talked about that. So the thing that I would say that stuck out most to me was, first of all, it's not just athleticism. Like it's not like, Oh, yeah, he's this long athletic guy. He's an opportunistic cutter or whatever. Like he's crafty. He's a crafty finish. And he draws a lot of contact and fouls, you know, in the lane around the basket. And that just, you know, if you can get fouled, the efficiency is going to be through the roof. You know, he overall still shot really well from the free throw line, even though there was a couple of blips in the summer league. And the other thing I would just say is just the three point shooting. I think he hit a little bit of a lull in some of those middle games, especially when he was having the ball on his hands a little bit more. But he's not just a guy who like, Oh, when I'm wide open and I have to shoot it, I'll shoot it with a slow release and make 35%, which is what a lot of these like non shooting three and D players do. He's doing the no dip, but tomb threes. He's looking for shots against contests. Like there are times where I'm like, Oh, he could have driven that and he wanted to shoot like he was looking for the three, four or five from three today. And that to me is the most important thing because that is the shot that if he's playing good defense and he's not, you know, throwing the ball away, missing layups or whatever, right, that comfortable catch and shoot three is the difference between we can play this guy and we can't at the NBA level. And he looks comfortable and confident taking those in a in decent volume. And that's pretty big for him this summer compared to, you know, his collegiate career and then sort of the read on him as a prospect. Yeah, that's the big thing that I was looking for with him in the G League. I was really encouraged by him getting shots up pretty early on in his G League tenure. He was getting six plus three pointers attempted consistently and average five plus for the both all the seasons, whether it be showcase cup or the regular season or anything. He got them up with consistency. The little bit of craftiness, a Euro stuff stuff wasn't, you know, the foul baiting stuff was really what stood out to me in this summer league, watching him play in the summer league. And the no dip threes, you know, I think defensively, he he had lulls a lot last year in the G League. I think he was maybe a little bit more consistent. He still had some blow, blowbys, you know, guys get past you think things like that happen. But I saw lots of great deflections, a lot of good use of his length and and just he feels also like an NBA defender, which he felt like that coming into the league last year from college, somebody that just had those tangibles to be able to guard, especially smaller guards. And he was able to take some bigger assignments. He was just impressive altogether. But I thought that a little bit of his offensive appetite, his his feel for looking for his shots. The Euro stuff stuff was really great. I understand why people compound to Shea with that specific feature that he has the Excel D cell stuff is very shay-like though, like I continue to think that Shae's use of his other hand separates him from most players, which Jordan doesn't quite have. But it doesn't have it all. Yeah, this guy's all left to me. Yeah, he's all left. But still the footwork stuff is encouraging. I guess he white people. Yeah, comp and the Shae stuff used pop. You were there Lucas and I was watching Shae was ambidextrous his rookie season. He was amazing. He's amazing player. I'll talk about Shae too much. But yeah, you know, I think that his offensive appetite, even as a secondary guy, has been very encouraging. His dribble handoff stuff was he often got into a little bit into his his Eurostep bag with that sort of stuff too. Good or bad sometimes, sometimes he would force these euros and lose control a little bit. But his his DFO stuff was good too. Like just some stuff that was encouraging to see from him. I definitely think he's an NBA player, whether or not that will translate into how quickly he gets to center contract. We've talked about that enough. But I think he's a guy that will get minutes and will get shots this season. I'm really looking forward to it. I've been really excited watching him progress as a prospect and he's he's done as good as you could do in a year as far as being a second router. So kudos to him. Okay, I do want to talk about Cam Christi. I'm gonna let you talk about Cam Christi a little bit Lucas. He had to stand out game today. But even before there were kind of very encouraging things, which is him as a shooter, I did not watch Cam in college. I watched a bunch of his tape once we drafted him. And even then, I was just like, Oh man, this guy can shoot like he has like all the good stuff you would want from a shooter. Talk to me a little bit about Cam Christi and why he was encouraging to you, not just as a prospect in the G, but an NBA prospect for the Clippers. Yeah, I mean, I think it's just, you know, coming into 18 years old, he's one of the youngest guys in this competition. And I mean, he's just smooth. He's a smooth shooter. He's there's everything about the way that he moves on the court, the way he releases the ball screams natural shooter. And he's got a high release. He can like his hips can be moving, but his shoulders stay squared. And he hits the shot, you know, so so like even when the base isn't solid underneath him, the shot is still pure. You know, he he relocates, he he lets him fly. He he can take him from a few steps out. I mean, there's a there's a kind of everything else is now what has to develop. You know, I'm not sure that you really want him dribbling the basketball very much. I think he was four or 14 on two pointers in this week, and he was 15 of 37 on threes. So, you know, the ability to, and one of those two pointers was like a 20 foot pump fake pull up. So being able to do something when he gets into the lane, this is like a Bones Island thing that we've talked about in the past two, like, you know, tremendous volume shooter from beyond the arc. But when you get into the lane, you got to be able to make some layups and some floaters and keep defenses honest. But when you're at this level of shooter with the size that he has of the shooting on position, even if that side of the game never really gets around to developing, I think you still can play. I mean, it's like Kyle Corver never had a float game, you know, so whatever develops in terms of a well-rounded player, I think his dimensions and his shooting comfort, like, I don't think that he would be a good NBA rotation player right now. There's just, he's not strong enough on the ball. I think he would get bullied a little bit by, by bigger defenders, knocking him off balance. I think it would be hard for him. But like, I think he's a guy who you could give NBA reps to. Yeah. And I, the other thing I'll say that was really encouraging about this summer for, for Cam in particular is he clearly got more comfortable as he went. And for the 18 year old, one and done guy coming into his first summer league, that's what you want. You want him to get more comfortable. I thought, you know, his worst game was the first game, where he seemed the most off balance, the most confused, he was getting bumped, he didn't know what to do. Second game wasn't very good as well. And then the third game, though, he didn't shoot the ball well, I think that he, you know, he just played a little bit better. And then the last two games were good and that today was great, you know, to come into, to the playoff game and have 22 points. So yeah, I, if he was any better, you'd be at like, oh man, we have, we're in a tough spot because how are we going to get this guy minutes? I don't think he's at the point where you're like, oh no, how are we going to get him minutes next year? I think, yeah, the red, the red shirt is a great move. But, you know, I would be, I would be comfortable with there being a stretch of games where you were like, let's bring him up and see, you know, throw him in there, especially if you get mid season and, you know, a couple guys are injured and you're trying to figure out, we need a little more shooting in this lineup. Like, yeah, I would, I would see how it goes, you know? Yeah, you know, Norm Powell was pretty healthy last year, but he's not been healthy as a clipper. And yeah, kind of occupies a space that the clippers don't have many players that just live in that space where Norm's this great off ball mover, relocator, shooter, he's got a lot, a lot more off the balance as far as going directly to the rim and using a bit of his athleticism to finish at the rim. But he's not necessarily a great guy that puts it on the floor either, has had a negative assistive turnover ratio for a while now. You know, I know, I think Kevin Porter Jr. has some decent catch and shoot stats. But, you know, Bones Island has always been a pull up pull up guy who knows if Bones Island is even a clipper. But the clippers don't really have these shooter types on their roster. They have guys that either need the ball in their hands, they have guys that aren't really shooters, definitely are not, you know, pull up shooters. And if Norm Powell misses some time, you know, I think that a lot of minutes probably get relocated to Jordan Miller first before a guy like, I think, I mean, I think Porter Jr. probably would be the, yeah, the norm step in. Unfortunately, yeah. But yeah, you know, I do think that if the, whatever, we don't know if you'll be suspended or for how long, but right, we don't know Kevin Porter Jr's story exactly here. But yeah, I mean, Kevin Porter Jr. just feel like the natural norm kind of guy. But outside of that, like, they're just not that many shooter relocator types on this team. And men, if you had a couple of injuries to some of your small guards and you needed some cam minutes, I'd love to see him out there to see what he has. Now, I think he's mostly going to be a Glee guy this year. I think, I think Clipper fans are excited about him right now. Want to see him get minutes probably should just relax a little bit and understand that he probably will get Glee minutes. But could Cam Chrissy be a guy after a year of the Glee that maybe gets NBA rips his second year? I mean, totally. I think, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised after seeing some of his play this summer. And I was worried that he would be like a two years guy, you know, like, that maybe he needs two full years in the G league and needs to really get stronger needs to get all that. That could still be the case for all I know. But I do think this year will be really important as far as him getting reps, getting stronger. You know, I don't think that he's going to be an on ball guy or do much on ball stuff. I do think that Clippers briefly put him in some dribble the ball up situations that I didn't love this game. But that's not really his game. I think he has a very specific niche on this team. And in his future, probably in general, I don't really see him as being an on ball guy, unless his skills change a bit. But he's exciting to me. I'm going to be watching him in the G league. And I really hope that there's a case where it is a one year in the G league thing. And maybe next year, he does show out like a Jordan Miller type of performance next year, where he kind of forces the option the Clippers hand a bit to maybe put him higher in the rotation. Because I think he occupies a space that the Clippers could use that they've lost a bit. So it's good to see. Well, I think, you know, part of the reason why you mentioned the Clippers don't have someone in this mold. Well, like that guy was Luke Canard. And Luke Canard got beat out of the rotation because he wasn't as good as these other guys, right? So you know, you look back now to probably less of Cam Chrisias, sort of the like for like replacement for a guy like Norman Powell when Norm is out of the lineup. And more of a, you know, I think there's a real chance that the Clippers playing lineups that have Terrence Mann and Derek Jones Jr. on the court at the same time really struggled to score the basketball. And then you start saying, I don't think Cam Christie is going to come in at start, right? But now you look at, well, now Norman, maybe they start Norman Powell over Terrence to try to make that happen, right? Well, now you've got a second unit with Terrence Mann, Chris Dunne and Amir Coffey and Nico Batum and Mo Bomba. I mean, there's not a ton of juice there, right? Jordan Miller isn't going to be the guy who comes in and is, you know, Jordan Miller is the replacement for sort of the stand in the corner of defend type of role that Jones Jr. or Mann has. So then, you know, then maybe that's where probably still not this season. But, you know, Amir Coffey is entering the last year of his contract. Terrence Mann has entered the last year of his contract. Kevin Porter Jr. is on a one year deal with the player option for a second year. So if he has a good season, he'll decline that option and leave the Clippers won't have money to keep him. Bones Hyland is entering last season of his contract, probably looking at something close to a full red shirt year for Cam Christie. But if he impresses the coaches in training camp, he has a good season in the G League. If he comes back, he has a good summer league next summer. You know, there's, the team is going to have to make some some medium term strategic decisions about how much, you know, how much are we going to commit to each of these guys I just listed to retain them? And what does the next five years look like for this franchise? And I think, you know, Cam Christie has his job right now is not to make Ty Lugo. We might need that guy on Tuesday. His job is to make Lawrence Frank go Yeah, in 2026, he's going to be one of our eight guys, you know, let's take another quick break come right back and talk about the rest of the high end of the roster after this. All right, we're back Lucas. We saw some good things from Kobe Brown. These last couple of games, I mentioned some of his on ball stuff and point Kobe and things like that. I think he's shown some real competence dribbling. Then maybe some clipper fans didn't know about him. These last couple of games. What were the things that were encouraging for you from Kobe? And what are the things that still keep you from thinking, Oh, this is an NBA player. Yeah, well, I'll say what was encouraging about the last couple of games is, you know, sometimes we have a tendency to talk and talk and talk about guys weaknesses, right? But the thing that really kills you as a prospect is when you're not good at your strengths. Like it's one thing to be bad at something. But there are lots of guys who are in the NBA and are good NBA players who are bad at something. We talk all the time about like Norman Powell's weaknesses and Terrence Mann's weaknesses and James Harden's weaknesses, right? But the guys who really kill you are the Fionn Dukab and Gillies and the Jerome Robinson's who aren't actually good at the things they're supposed to be good at. Kobe Brown in the first half of this summer league was not good at the things he was supposed to be good at. And he was bad at the things he was supposed to be bad at. And that's brutal. That's killer, right? In these last couple of games, I'll give him credit for the last three games, even though he didn't shoot great in the bucks game. I thought he still played well. In those last three games, he was good at the things he was supposed to be good at. Good with the ball in his hands, read the court well. In the first two games of the summer league, Kobe Brown had five assists and six turnovers. In the last three games, he had 16 assists and six turnovers. So just in terms of, I mean, I feel like if if folks who are listening to this were listening to this pod for the last two weeks, all along, I've been saying, Kobe needs to be the hub. He should be the hub. He should be the creative hub of the summer offense. And finally, you know, he kind of grew, I guess, into that a little bit. Maybe it was a little, a little uncomfortable just coming in because he shot poorly in the first game. And Jordan had 36 points and then it's like, okay, well, maybe deferring a little too much. I still don't like that he only had seven field goal attempts today, especially because he was six of seven, you know, with four assists in one turnover. He only had 17 points. Could have really used a little bit more from him in this Chris's elimination game. But but I think you can see clearly what his skills are. The concern for me is I feel like we still don't totally know where he is as a catch and shoot three point shooter. And that's one of the big things that was billed for him as like that for sure, he's going to be able to do that, right? And I'm, I'm, I'm not saying he's not a shooter. But I, he, he sure steps into them and takes them with confidence, but he has some bad misses, five of 22 from three in this summer league. That's the shot that's gonna, he has to be able to make that shot to get opportunities in the NBA. And then it's like, okay, what can you do off a pump fake? What can you do in the short roll, that type of stuff? But if you can't make the three to begin with, he's not going to see the court very much. And then then the defensive side of the ball, you know, but there are players, I was just, I was thinking about this today, right? There are lots of players in the NBA who are bad on defense. So, you know, I don't know. Um, I want to bring up chef some, you know, you and I had a discussion maybe two nights ago, and we were just kind of looking at minutes, right? And one of the big things that we talked about is just sort of at that power forward position, the Clippers only have so many guys who can even play power forward, you know, because Zoo, Bamba, Kai Jones, and Musadiya Bhatta, you don't want to put any of those guys at the four in meaningful NBA minutes. And then other than Kawhi, Nico, and Kobe, everyone else is six, five. So yes, you could play small with, with Derek Jones, Jr., or George Miller, or Terence Mann, or Amir Coffey as the power forward, and Tai Lu probably will do that at times this season, but you don't want a ton of that in your regular season rotation. So if this was just like the math that, that, you know, we were, we shared while we were talking the other night, if Kawhi Leonard plays 60 games this year, and he plays 34 minutes a game, and Nico Batum plays 60 games this year, and he plays 20 minutes a game. Those are just estimates, right? If they never share the court, Nico and Kawhi, there will be 700 power forward minutes left over. Nico and Kawhi are going to share the court plenty this season. How much is it going to be as a three and four? Are you going to be as a four and five? You know, I don't know the answer to those questions, but, you know, I would say probably they'll share the court, you know, regularly, nightly for short shifts, they'll probably close games together. So maybe instead of 700 extra power forward minutes, there's 1200 extra power forward minutes. That is a lot to gamble on where I feel Kobe Brown is as a player right now, to say, yeah, a thousand minutes of Kobe Brown next year. I'm, I don't feel super confident about that. And I also don't feel confident with, oh, well, if he doesn't play, well, Tai will just play a mirror at power forward because the mirror's not a power forward. He's not good when he plays power forward. So yeah, if I was going to pinpoint, you know, that that's probably maybe that's something that gets looked into, you know, buyout market, or maybe that's something that I don't know. Maybe it's a good thing. Maybe it's a good thing to be like, yeah, Kobe is going to play. He's going to play and we're going to figure it out. Yeah, you know, I'm almost leading towards that Lucas. I know the Clippers have some bet on yourself stuff, especially like we've talked about with that draft pick that OKC could pick between the Rockets and them and the Rockets have a pretty talented roster. Whether they'll be good is to be seen, but they're pretty talented. Maybe it is good to just give Kobe power forward minutes. You know, I assume that he's going to have some bad nights here, but he is your first round 30th granite, your 30th pick. The Clippers put him into a lot of spaces this summer league to really show off all of what he can do. And he's not getting any younger men. He's an older, he's an older, younger player for this Clippers team. He's an older, younger player. He sounded like it sounded like you misspoke and correct yourself, but that's actually the sequence. Yeah, folks. He's a 25 year old sophomore. He's a 25 year old, you know, he's like two years younger than Amir, you know, so yeah, you got to get this guy reps. You got to see if he can. Maybe he sinks and you know, or maybe he swims and you know that too. It's like you kind of have to, I kind of wish the Clippers would have given Kobe a bit more of a leash last year, but I get it. They were a win now team, you know, pretty immediately after they got hardened. It's still they still want to win to a degree, but they're not going to win 50 games or 55 games next year. That's I don't think they're going to get fit. I think they're over under and Vegas was 40.5. I thought I saw 41.5. Yeah, I mean, but yeah, I mean, low 40s, you know, low 40s and you want this guy to play a degree of backup basketball that'll suffice for a 500 team and maybe it's going to be too much for him and he doesn't get it done. But you know, these second, these second unit minutes where he can maybe be a bit of a playmaker on short rolls or maybe be a guy who can shoot threes. And maybe he gets a hot stretch and teams defend him more there. You can show more of his full game. You got to just see what you got with him. And I think I think the minutes and backup center particularly are like we have to also talk about that can be a huge, you know, drop off when it goes to Mo Bamba and how bad of a player he's been his whole career. And you know, you have Nico and Kawhi and those guys, one of those guys will inevitably miss some games. But you know, I feel like Kobe, you just got to give him some minutes at this point. And he's not going to be great. And you just got to give him some as you see what you have with this 25 year old second year guy. Yeah. And you know, I made this point on Twitter the other day thinking about Jordan Miller's status and the roster, you know, it's about the it's not do you like him, right? If Jordan Miller getting a contract was based on if the Clippers liked him or not, he would have a contract. But you can only give out so many contracts. And some of those guys need to be capable of helping you win basketball games right now. You could so you really only have a few contracts you can give out to guys who aren't helping you win games on a night to night basis. And you know, right now Kobe Brown is one of those guys. And so I kind of had wondered with the Clippers having another first round pick next year with them having picked up Cam Christie with Jordan Miller, you know, making himself known is this a situation where maybe they would the Kobe Brown rookie contract two years guaranteed and then team option for year three team option for year four. But the rookie scale deals are a little tricky. The team options have to actually be decided upon the prior October, not liking June, like a normal option. So Clippers have to decide before this season begins, if they want Kobe Brown back for $2.6 million this for 2025 26. And I was kind of wondering myself, you know, looking at that 2025 off season thinking you're going to have to have Jordan on the roster right then you're going to have another first round pick by then would the Clippers really think about declining that option on Kobe Brown. And I've I've talked through it with myself a little bit. I think the answer is no. I mean, I think it's I think it's in play, it wouldn't be a crazy thing to do. But I think 2.6 million, you know, if the worst thing that happens is you're out of roster spots and he's your least favorite guy, you just cut him for the 2.6 million in dead money in 2025 26 right it is what it is. But in 2026 27 that 2026 off season where the Clippers are looking at having max cap space again, his rookie scale deal jumps up in that last year to 4.8 million, which is still not a crazy amount of money. But it does start getting into like the margins matter as you're trying to give someone a $200 million contract to come be a new star for the Clippers or whatever. Right. So I think probably the downside of picking up his option for his third year is low enough that that they should probably just do it. But that those whatever it is, if it's 700 or 1,000 or 1,200 minutes available for him at Power Forward this year, he basically has to prove that he's ready to be an NBA rotation player in those minutes. If he doesn't, I don't think he's going to get that fourth year option picked up. Yeah, there you go. And then he's then he's just going to be like, those those thousand minutes are not I don't think the Clippers are going to approach it like, well, we're going to give Kobe a thousand minutes and see if he grows into this. No, like he has to be good enough to help you win games like in those thousand minutes or else they're going to give those minutes to someone else this year. And at that point, he's just going to end up being like a 26 year old former first run pick who never really played. And he's not going to get another contract with anyone. So, you know, real, we're going to find out early, I think the first time that Nico or Hawaii misses a game and someone besides those two guys has to play Power Forward, if it's not Kobe Brown, if the coaches would rather go small than play Kobe, his NBA career is probably over. I mean, that's that's where his that's how important this training campus for him. He's got to give those coaches confidence in him. Yeah, come on, Kobe, let's take another quick break talk about Musa and maybe use some rapid fire on the other guys after this. All right, we're back. Musa Di Abate had some nice stats this summer league Lucas. Why are you still a bit down on him as a prospect? I just don't I just don't think he's has the athleticism of an NBA big and you know, to be 6'9 to be strictly a center to not be up above the rim or have a quick second jump. I just I think it's he's he's just not quite there and he's in an archetype that is so athleticism based like it's all about it's about being quick and being springy and getting up and down and I just don't think he's quite the athlete that you need there. I do feel like he was solid enough in this summer league that I do kind of feel like if you you know, if you had someone pick up an injury and he came in and he played 12 minutes or whatever, like in the regular season against second units, he might not be terrible, but I don't think he's ever really gonna be like it gonna be an impact guy. And you know, if he was like shooting threes or something, then maybe maybe it would be a different story, but yeah, I think he did well enough in this summer league. You know, I've I've said almost I think every game. I wish Kai Jones hadn't rolled his ankle so that we could see both of them side by side and get sort of a comparative feel. I think he did well enough in the summer league to deserve an opportunity in training camp to fight for that two-way contract versus Kai Jones. Yeah, but but at that point, I just don't feel I don't feel attached enough to either of those guys as prospects to you know, the coaches should just pick whoever they like most in camp and that that's just gonna be what it's gonna be. Yeah, you know, Kai Jones has been not particularly good. The thing that's interesting, I just don't know what Kai Jones is. See, he has all these measurables that are impressive, but he's still just not been a good NBA player. We know a little bit about his off-court stuff. He's a tantalizing measurables guy. I know who Musa Diabate is at this point, unless Musa started hitting threes and if he did, it would change everything for me. But unless he starts hitting threes and having a midi, he's this guy, you know, he's this guy that's caught in between not being strong enough to be a finisher around the rim or being a rim deterrent and then being light enough to be able to be a switchable defensive guy, which is exactly his strength. So you don't really want him to get bigger. So I mean, to me, it's like you got to get a shot, man, or you got to change your athletics of athleticism, which he can't to, you know, he can only do only so much on that end. You can't expect him to be, you know, he's he's springy enough to be in the G League, but not springy enough to be an NBA center. It's really, it's a really tough wiggle room for him there. Kai Jones, I don't know. Kai Jones has nothing but springy. Yeah, exactly. Time to do something about springy. He's a walking mixtape, but you know, is he going to stand in the right spot, right? Like here, Kai Jones last summer in Las Vegas, went with Charlotte. He's a priority guy for them. He was a draft pick for them. He started all three games that he played in. He averaged eight points, seven rebounds, half two thirds of an assist, two and a third turnovers, and five fouls. So he had a he was bad in summer, like a dunk on Wambanyama, though. He was, you know, he was bad in summer. He was not a good summerly player a year ago. What has the last year looked like for him? I mean, he hasn't played a ton of basketball in the last year. Yeah. Just being, you know, being frank, right? Like he's, you know, he had to deal with with personal off court issues. I mean, not not to like, he's not a bad, I don't think he's a bad guy, right? He just was dealing with other things that required his attention. And so he wasn't playing a ton of basketball. He played a couple of Glee games, and then he got hurt. And then he missed summer league because he got hurt. I mean, I just, he was bad in Vegas a year ago. He hasn't played a ton of basketball since then. I have no idea what to expect. And so if they go into camp, I just think the best way to settle it is put both those guys in training camp, you know, have your two a days, have them go head to head in drills, have them go head to head in scrimmages. And the coaches will know, which, you know, it's not like one is 19 and one is 25. And you're, you're playing a, you know, upside versus right now gamble or whatever. They're 22 and 23. Let the, let the coaches pick the winner of the training camp battle and, you know, I'll be fine with it either way. Yeah, you're being frank on your takes, but you're not Lawrence Frank Lucas. And we'll have to hear what Lawrence Frank says at the end of the day. All right, because I'm going to give you some rapid fire takes on some of these players. You know, we've, we've seen all of them play, except for trying flowers. You let me know, you give me like a sentence, like a short sentence on how you feel about each. Let's go with, let's start with Amari Bailey. Awful. Yeah, pretty bad. Huh? Yeah, I'm not. I mean, I know you're like, well, maybe he could have a heater on the G League team. Yeah, I mean, he could spot on like the third stringers in the G League, you know, are he's probably right about third stringer in the G League level of talent. So, you know, if he's, if he's in San Diego and he's like, you know, whatever, you know, maybe he'll, maybe he'll get a little bit better, but yeah, rough, real rough watch. If the Clippers were, like, if the Clippers wanted to win the Summer League championship, they would not have played him in this semi-final. He was that bad all week. Josh Bannon. Worse. He's actually worse than Amari Bailey. I mean, I, I don't want to be, I don't want to, I don't want to, I feel like I've been, I've been mean to Josh Bannon every, you know, every, he's just, he's, he's not good. He's, I think that these two should probably be like, there might be some Jaunte Porter thing going on where they were betting against the Clippers in these games or something. But no, I mean, it is what it is. Like you, you bring guys to Summer League, they're back ups on a Summer League, whatever, right? But no, there's no, there's no, no NBA future for either. Okay. Let's get on your good side. Ray J. Dennis. You know, I like Ray J. Dennis. I think we saw the warts that were there. I think he needs some seasoning at the professional level, you know, worth remembering for as great as he was at Baylor last year as a fifth year senior. He tramp, he only had one year at that level. He was playing lower collegiate basketball before then and, and was able to get that grad transfer to Baylor and then had a great year at Baylor. But, you know, watching him against Pippin today, he just needs, you know, he needs pro reps. I think a season, like a full season of actually playing minutes in the Glee could be really good for him. I'm not super high on there being an NBA, like a real productive NBA player in there in the long term either. But I think that, you know, like Xavier Moon played his way into a bunch of two ways and 10 day and rest of season contracts. And Xavier Moon, you know, never been in the top 10 rotation on an NBA team, but he's, he certainly made some money in the last few years, right? And yeah, I could see Dennis, Dennis maybe having an arc like that, but probably just a full year in the Glee and then maybe you think could there be a two way here or he could go overseas probably after a year. Yeah. Elijah Harkless. Yeah, of the, of the guys that aren't guys, he's the most interesting, played for the Clippers in the Glee last year. And then they brought him here between you know, that they like him a little bit, right? Shot the ball from three in the Glee, so you feel comfortable with the shot, the obviously pesky on ball defender. So, you know, there's a mold there, right? Of like a guy who can make threes and pick up the other team's ball handler for full court. But the guards in the NBA are going to be better. There's a reason kind of nobody picks up full court in the NBA because the lead guards are just too good. And yeah, I think, you know, if things shake out with some of the other guys, and it happens that the Clippers have a two way spot and they decided to give it to Harkless, I wouldn't be displeased with that. But I don't think he's like a can't miss guy that I'm going to be that I'm like, they got or how can we make it work for Elijah Harkless? Trevor Hudgens. You know, kind of a nothing burger summer league for him, which is a shame because he was a really solid professional overseas. But, you know, I think I think he had a good enough year in France last year that that door should be open for him to go back to France and keep having that career over there. And, you know, good for him. But yeah, just didn't quite, you know, it's a shame. Matt Morgan, who listeners of the pod will remember last year being on the Clippers summer league team and us hyping up a lot because he finished second and MVP voting in France behind Wambagnama. And then he kind of didn't have a great summer league for the Clippers last year. It wasn't bad, but didn't really break out like we had hoped playing for, was it Charlotte this year's shop? Yeah, had a 36.11 of 11 shooting game in Vegas for Charlotte in the summer league. So, you know, Hudgens is like a high volume, high efficiency, stocky pro point guard. And he just didn't hit shots in a few games here and never found a rhythm, you know, so I don't, I think this is almost like a wash for him. And he should just pick up a screen right where he left it off in a good place in France. Soft flashes of that pull up three a couple times. You're like, Oh, I could see why he's a great shooter, but didn't really show enough of it. Terry Taylor, who got a start in one of these games, Lucas. Yeah, you know, Terry Taylor has floated around the NBA for the last couple of years as kind of like a dirty work undersized forward, but not quite a good enough shooter, not quite a good enough athlete, not quite a good enough defender. When I saw it was on the summer, Clippers summer league team, I was like, Oh, I recognize that name. He's, you know, played 100 games in the last three years. Right. I messaged a Chicago Bulls guy. I know. And I was like, Hey, it's Terry a guy. And he said, LOL, no. And after after five summer games, I can't confirm, not really on the radar there. But I think he probably, because he's just too small to play the role that he's good at in the NBA, but at a lower level, I think he can be productive and effective. So, you know, I'm sure that I think he's another guy who like, like, I don't know that Josh Bannon is, is going to have a professional career. Maybe probably because he's from Australia, so he goes to the NBA. He was a backup in the NBA last year. It's probably he'll be fine. Right. But I think that I think that Terry Taylor could have like a, you know, go go somewhere in Europe or like have a 10 year career in the G League, that type of thing. Yeah. And and last is DJ Rodman. You know, we hardly knew he had DJing, right? It's true. I mean, he he he was pretty clearly a last minute addition to the summer league team, just because of Flowers contract situation. Kai Jones, ankle took the 12 guys that Clippers would have liked to have here down to 10. He wasn't even on the original roster. He wasn't there for the whole training camp. You know, they brought him in basically because if someone turns an ankle, you still want to be able to play five on five, right? So, you know, I don't know. I don't have a ton there, but we barely saw them at all. Yeah. It's true. And I think that'll do it for this episode. Well, do you want to do you want to talk about Elijah Heartless a little bit? Oh, I'm excited for Elijah Heartless. He's the kind of guy that I like. You love those those Julie Clippers. Yeah, I'm a fan of these defense first guards that that really get at it. I'm a fan of Elijah Heartless. He'd be the guy I would give that last two way spot to if if the other two were Jordan Miller and the other ones, Kai Jones or Musa di Abate, you know, I would give the last spot to Heart to Heartless. I've been impressed with him. The Clippers, more importantly, the Clippers were impressed with him. They played him to start their fourth quarter in place of camp. Chrissy before Jordan Miller fouled out. And then when Jordan Miller fouled out, they put in Heartless. So he clearly made the top end of this rotation here despite not starting. And I think the Clippers appreciated who he is. So I'd imagine that he's going to be in the on the Glee team, whether or not he'll have a two or not is is to be decided. But the Clippers were impressed with him. And I think virtually every clipper fan that watched him was impressed with him, his defenses on ball defense and tenacity. A lot of Pat Bev vibes from the way he got at it after he was forced to turn over or force it out of bounds call. And that stuff is endearing to clipper fans. And I don't blame anybody watching the summer league team for really loving what Elijah Heartless brought. And I hope he's going to be with the Glee team because he was really good. And he showed and he had some hot shooting games too. So I think that there's enough there on offense, you know, he had enough bounce on some dunks and had some three three point shot making, you know, that stuff is still things that need to come together a bit. But that on ball defense is there. And that stuff that can really just it changed a game this summer league, you know, it really swung a game like the Clippers had this summer league. So I think that that stuff is appreciated. And I hope he's with the Glee team at the very minimum. So yeah, he should be I'd imagine with his history with the Glee Clippers and his performance here that he'll be with with that team in Oceanside. So yeah, you want to talk about Josh Bannon at all? No, not really. You covered it. Okay. It's pretty, pretty rough. I do like the, you know, Jordan Miller was pretty excited when he finished that and one on the fast break. That was cool. That's about it. What do you think you think Bones, Highland and PJ Tucker will be Clippers on August 1st? I'd imagine that PJ Tucker is is stretched at minimum. No, Lucas, do you think you think PJ Tucker is kept around for maybe a midseason deal? That could be that could be a thing and expiring contract then, I suppose they should, but they won't. I think that they should keep his contract on the books, but the deadline to to stretch a player salary is is August 31st. So my guess would there's no reason to do it before then, you know. So that's my guess is that whatever trades they can try to cook up. I think, you know, Bones is kind of the more interesting question because holding on to him seems a little more palatable, but maybe just personality wise, it's, it's not actually, even though the dollar sign is lower. If both of those guys are gone and no new player brought it in, that really changes the roster space calculus for these Clippers. You start thinking about, you know, me, do you go get another vet min guy, you know, mentioning like an alternative at Power Forward to Kobe Brown in case Kobe Brown is not playing well would wouldn't be a bad idea. Right. I would still, if you signed Wenyun Gabriel, who's the guy I mentioned to you there tonight, I would still want Kobe to get those opportunities first, but if Kobe's really bad and you need someone to play those minutes, you know, I don't know. So that it'll be interesting. I think still some, some roster stuff to happen in the next few weeks for these Clippers. Yep. Yep. Yep. And we'll be here to talk all about them. We'll have a podcast with Justin and Jamal later in the week to get their thoughts, not just from what they saw in the court, but their experience Las Vegas, which I'm looking forward to. Jamal had a video of Kawhi and Paul George of the club. And I'll, and I'll ask him about that story and others that he garners up there in Vegas. And that'll do it for this episode. The object of the podcasting, it was a nice five star review, whatever platform this is on five stars, five stars really helps. So nice words to read them on the air. And as always, go Clippers. [MUSIC] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]