The FAN Morning Show

Xander Schauffele’s Big Win + How to Manage The Blue Jays

The FAN Morning Show continues live from the 29th Annual Jays Care Golf Classic with Ben Ennis and Brent Gunning. The pair welcomes Joe House, host of the Fairway Rollin’ Podcast, to discuss Xander Schauffele’s big win at the The Open Championship (1:00). The trio discuss Schauffele’s play at the Royal Troon Golf Club and his bid for the World Golf Hall of Fame. They look at Scottie Scheffler’s dominant season despite his 7th place finish in Scotland before moving onto Tiger Woods’ career and if he is now at a point of “ceremonial” golf. Later, B&B welcome Canadian Baseball Hall of Famer Ernie Whitt who shares his experience as a player and coach (27:30). They ask the former Blue Jay about his take on the current iteration of this Toronto team, the atmosphere of the clubhouse, and the proper way for a manager to handle the situation the Jays currently find themselves in.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Duration:: 50m
Broadcast on:: 22 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

[MUSIC] >> Today morning shows, 4, 7, 5, 9, 8 of fan Ben and his Fred Gunning. We are live from the 29th annual Jay's Cara Golf Tournament. In support of the Jay's Cara Foundation at Battle Snake Point Golf Club. Xander Shoffley is 30 years old. He's now a two-time major champion looking it up earlier. Phil Mickelson won his first Masters at 34. >> Yeah. >> He has six majors. >> Different sport then. >> I guess. >> For sure. >> Anyways. >> No, no, I'm not like putting a ceiling on Shoffley. I'm just saying like 30 now feels like like 34 then, kind of. >> Okay, I thought you were gonna say, well, I also Phil was playing in the Tiger Woods era. >> This is true. >> Okay, and I guess Xander plays in the Scotty Sheffler era. But he has one more major this season than Scottie does. All right, time now for our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus. Where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus.com. It is the great Joe House of the Fairway Roland podcast on The Ringer. Joe, thanks for doing this. We'll get to the open in just a second. We're at a golf course here in Ontario right now. Do you have any Canadian golf course experience? Have you ever played up here? >> Question. >> Sadly, no. And even more said, I had a trip planned for Cabot this fall. But somehow, you know, the NFL schedule crept in and they were released. And I had to rewrite the whole story. So I'm gonna get up to Cabot at some point. But I think that's the way that I want to lose my Canadian golf cherry. Do you guys recommend that? Is that the best way to do it? >> Yes, 1,000%. I have not made the trek out myself. But anybody I have talked to has said that is far and away the best we got in this country. >> You're gonna get the length style weather, though, right? >> Yes, you will. That's part of it. You got to put on your rain pants and be ready. Yeah, houses are growing, we can handle it. >> That's right, I'm looking forward to the President's Cup of Montreal, though. Yeah, are you coming to Montreal? That's this fall. Well, I love Montreal, one of my favorite cities in North America. >> That dastardly NFL, though, it's gonna keep him chained to America once it happens. >> No, President's Cup of Montreal is gonna be awesome. I have a feeling your Americans might give us a swift kick in the shins for my beloved Mike Weir in his Canadian captaincy. But yeah, I'm looking forward to it for sure. >> Do you take any, is this a big thing for American golf fans that it's all American major winners for the first time in a year since 1982? Is that a thing? Are you all rallying around each other? Same, we did it! >> No, absolutely not. >> All that anybody cares about now is how do they do with their bet? Everything is video looking at your card and how you did it with your bet. >> Having said that, I was somebody who jumped on Justin and Rose after Friday. So yeah, yesterday was a little painful for me. I guess that's as good of a segue into the golf as any. This is probably the best way I can put it. 2024 is wild, and I say that to myself every day for reasons that I've nothing to do with sports, but keeping it to golf. >> Could you imagine going back, I don't know, seven, eight, nine weeks ago in time and saying, well, Xander Shoffley's got a lead here, and there's just nothing anybody can do about it. He's not going to make any mistakes. He's just going to go cruise and continue to step on the throat of everyone around him, and it just feels inevitable. It is crazy how one win, and then, I mean, I'm not trying to minimize what two majors in a year is, but it's amazing how the conversation has not shifted, but just completely changed with him. And Xander Shoffley. >> Well, and you only have to go so far back as the players' championship, where he entered the final round with a lead and was on the back nine down there in part of the Florida in March with a lead and gat it up back to back bogeys open the door, and Scotty Sheffler is the guy who jumped through and won. And then we're in this posture of talking about Scotty Sheffler having an absolutely dominant season, which he has. And trying to put it in the context of other performances in a single season in history, and lo and behold, Xander Shoffley was like, hey, I was holding my beer. I'm right here. He went out and won what a lot of folks kind of treated as a glorified PGA tour event at the PGA Championship at Valhalla, it really wasn't set up with the kind of major difficulty. And so folks inclined to, you know, take Xander down a notch for that as being his first win, which sort of points to the way that place was set up and how easy it played. Now he did shoot 65 and he did birdie the final hole to win that golf tournament. So in terms of his psyche and his ability to hold on down the stretch, he showed us something but this win at the Open Championship, full different story that this was a top notch world class world caliber. And crazily enough, he is immediately immediately right now in the World Golf Hall of Fame. He goes right in because he's got two major wins. He's got a tour championship. He's got a couple, you know, he's been on the national team multiple times. It's not a high bar to get into the golf ball of fame, but he is definitely in it now. No, it's not a high bar, you rightfully said, but he's in there. You know, I want to throw this take that I've kind of been workshopping a little at you. So he now has the Open Championship. He's got the PGA as well and you know, still half the legs to go for the career grand slam. But if I was just to tell you that a golfer is missing one leg of the career grand slam, like, you know, we hold the Masters against Rory, of course, because it's the one we think of the most. But I think it's the most damning if you don't have an Open Championship. It is the one that's different. It's the one that asks different questions. What do you make of that that obviously every major holds a ton of weight in and of itself. But when you get to these guys who have won multiple majors and they haven't just won one or two, but maybe they have three legs of the grand slam. I just hold it against someone more if the Open Championship is the one they're missing as opposed to a US Open, a Masters or even a PGA as well. I kind of agree with this take and the reason is because it's such a different style of golf than what you know, all of the US based great have accomplished. You know, the Euro great, you kind of expect because they're used to, especially the European Tour players of yesteryear, you know, the conditions under which they competed on the nascent European tour, you know, as both tours were sort of coming up. So those guys, you know, you would kind of expect it's not a shock that Debbie's got one. It's not a shock that Greg Norma's got one. But you know, in the modern era, getting the Open Championship just really does distinguish, I think, you know, the guys and I think that they've put Zander right in the conversation right now for player of the year. I mean, you know, we start off the play, we've got the Olympics and we've got the stupid FedEx Cup playoff, but you know, six wins, we've already put his name on whatever the player of the year thing is and and there's like, oh, hold my beer. I'm right. We're going to, we're going to keep playing some golf here. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you called them the stupid FedEx Cup playoffs, which I agree, Brent was trying to talk to me about how that's important and how that could really differentiate between Scotty Sheffler and Zander Shoflin. I suppose, yeah, technically it could, but six wins this season and a master's title for Scotty Sheffler. Just two wins and a players and yeah, and okay, but it's not a major, but and then two, just two wins for for Zander Shoflin, a bunch of top 10s, but they were both majors. So so call it right now, Joe, like there is, I guess, yeah, there's there's more golf still to be played. I think for most casuals, it's over though now. Who who's leading in your mind? Oh, it's it's still Scotty and his performance, his performance, you know, through the course of the season, even with again, an absolutely horrendous putting performance, the dude finishes in the top 10, tied for seven. And you know, he was really done a disservice, Scotty Sheffler, by the cockamamie way that the PGA tour set up his schedule for this season. He went down to Ohio the week before the US Open and won at Jack Nick with his Muirfield Village, an extremely difficult test that the memorial and you know, he it's a it's a total grind. It's the kind of tournament that the winning score is always in the single digits under par. He went out one that golf tournament, but it really deprived him of the ability to get down to Pinehurst and practice down the other thing that deprived him. And this is of his own making. He has a little baby. I mean, for a guy who I don't know if I've made this joke on this show before, but for a guy with all of the pinpoint accuracy with the golf clubs, you would think that he'd be able to shoot a little better in terms of the baby planning. You know what I mean? I mean, he hit the spot. Yeah, I'm with you there and yeah, that doesn't even lead us into the Louisville police of it all. You know, you kind of mentioned a couple other things that are on the schedule there. And so I mentioned the players win. I think that matters to your point. It's not a major, but it definitely is something more than that. What do you think, you know, the Olympics, the FedEx Cup, and I'll throw the players in there as well. I feel like very important things, but they also don't feel like they kind of hold the weight with the average fan. Like the players hold a ton of weight to it. And people who don't care about golf, I think will care who wins an Olympic medal if it's somewhat of note. But that's the thing I was kind of thinking about is, you know, how do you kind of rank the importance of those? I guess the players would still be the first, but the playoffs should matter more than that. Like if you're just kind of ranking the players, the FedEx Cup, and then now the Olympics into the mix, what do you think kind of carries the most weight of the three? The FedEx Cup is is last. The players for sure because of the strength of the field. They do tend to get, I mean, you know, the the live thing has diminished the field over the past two years, but you know, historically, the players has always had tremendous field. So beating all of your peers is a great thing. I think the Olympics means something because, you know, once the guys kind of step inside the ropes, the experience of what we've heard from both Justin Rose in 2016 and Xander Shopley who won in 2021, even though they're calling it the 2020 Olympics, but we can't I'm too dumb to track stuff like this. But you know, those guys are like, what you put on, you know, your your national colors, it takes on some significance and everybody understands what a gold medal is. So I think that that definitely deserves, you know, some some credible. It's only a field of 60 guys. So it's not like a huge field and it's it's not like the most competitive fields that the guys play against, but the the tour championship is completely contrived. It also is an excellent field, but they don't play great golf courses. It's super hot in the US. It's only a marginal interest. And so it's a nice thing to have on the resume, but it's not, I mean, you know, Rory's got a couple. Congratulations. First thing with Rory, he hasn't won a major in 10 years. That's all anybody cares about, you know, no, East Lakes important when it's Tiger Woods returning to the winter circle for the first time in a long time and speaking of which right. I mean, it's, it's called Montgomery doing like a little, I don't know if he was actively rooting against Tiger, but obviously that was the story of the week before the tournament started that that Monty called him embarrassing. And then guess what? Tiger went out there and did kind of embarrass himself, but he's he's going to keep playing. And he says in these majors, do you believe him? Do you think he should? I do believe that he's going to keep playing. And I don't. I mean, we're at the stage with him where he's just ceremonial golf. He's out there to do two loops and let everybody, you know, clap clap for him at Augusta. He can still make a cut. I you're going to hear a tinge of bitterness in my take here because I lost a significant amount of money on the idea of him both making the cut and beating Phil Mickelson. Big. Oh, how's yeah, how can I know I mean that him Phil, like I don't like it, but Phil beating him was the lock of the century going into this week. Well, I mean, Joe does have the history at, at true, but Tiger still has a few years on him. I just have to remember Tiger has only has one leg. He's got a bionic leg and another leg and yeah, he's not really capable of competitive golf. Look, all he said, all the right things physically, he did look improved. I thought some of the motivations from Colin Montgomery was going to translate into some quality golf. He just can't practice enough or play enough under competitive circumstances to be anything other than ceremonial. So I think he'll continue to make the cut at Augusta and if he's physically able to play the Masters, he'll do it, but otherwise, you know, so the wager is missed the cut for Tiger. Yeah, it's so tough too because he now has the exemption going forward into all these elevated events and I don't think he's going to play in every single one, but there's definitely going to be a few that he tries to make it happen and it just, I mean, we're all at the exact same place with it, right? Like we see it, we get, well, not weekend and week out, but, you know, four times a year when we see it. It just, the idea of a return to form just feels, I don't know, like borderline impossible. Somebody who I was surprised to see a little bit of a bounce back, I mean, it came. This was very Rory at the Masters fashion of posting a low round much before the leaders tee off, but John Rahm kind of kind of found it again. I wondered if Liv had broken him. Bad news for him is he now has to go a thousand years without, without playing in a, in an event that matters until, until the Masters again, do you think that this was a little bit of a dead cap bounce from Rahm or do you think that maybe he, he kind of found something here and he can get back to his pre-live self? Well, a couple of thoughts in the first place, it's great to have him back. And as we were sort of looking at the way the week might shake out, we wondered aloud on the Fairway Rolling podcast, is this a week for John Rahm and you know, his press conferences and so forth, his public comments all reflected a calm that he didn't show or reveal earlier in the year. I mean, he really seemed kind of knocked on his butt by the jump over to Liv and was completely unprepared for the Masters and all the responsibility that goes as being a former winner at the Masters, he was completely out of sorts at the PGA Championship, he had a toe issue allegedly at the US Open so he was new on the eve of that. And so he finally for this tournament, you know, sat down and you know, for sure he's got some great marks in terms of previous Open Championships, he's good on length. And so, you know, he was worth a look, I remind you, there is still one tournament out there. Down Rahm is 15 or 16 to one to win the Olympics in a field of 60 at a track in the Gulf of Nacional in Paris where he performed very well at the Ryder Cup, and I think he performed pretty well in a couple of like French Open situations. All right, okay, I like that. Joe. Welcome back John Rahm. Hopefully. Yeah, yeah, fingers crossed. It's great to talk to you again, but you got to get to Cabot obviously, are you going to do both? Are you going to do the cliffs and the lanes? You're going to do a two-fer just one. I was going to do both. I mean, this is blowing all out. I don't get up to Canada often enough to split it up. Oh, yeah. Everything I've heard is that you are going to be blown away and love it. Oh yeah, they got a short course there at night. You'll you will you will love it and I'll be jealous when you're there. I'll take off the pictures and send them to you guys. All right. Thanks, Joe. Appreciate it. See man. Always felt enjoyed it. Joe House, the fairway rolling podcast on the ringer and our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom visit Don Valley North Lexus dot com. Tiger can't be motivated by calling Montgomery, calling him embarrassing into making the cut at the Open Championship. Nothing. Well, I don't. This is the problem with Tiger is that I don't like I don't think motivation has ever been the factor. This is a guy who's had a chip on his shoulders since he was three years old chipping on well not my television because I was important yet, but you understand what I mean. The idea of him being this has always been it there. He is constantly looking at a slight or somebody to say I'm telling me can't do something. So if that can't get him through, I don't I just he's a broken man physically. There is only so much he can do the idea of, yeah, he's younger than Phil. But like, you know, we do like the real age test of like, do your smoke how many drinks do you have a week? And it's like, uh, Tiger's a lot older than Phil. Okay. Now you think Phil is keeping his nose dry? I just literally mean like car crashes that I've seen mangled vehicles, bionic leg, all of that stuff, he is he's a broken shell of him for himself. And this is, you know, Danielle, I mean, we were talking about this a lot last week. The problem with golf, the problem with it, there is no problem with golf. No, no, but why he agreed. Let me preface it. The problem for Tiger Woods with golf is that you can always like, no matter how and put this to your own golf game. Cause if you play out there, you can, you know this, whatever your level is, you can find the absolute best version of it for three holes for a drive. And then somebody of Tiger's Hill, who goes, Oh, I have all the muscle memory in the world. I can, I can access that. It takes, we always joke about, Oh, that's the shot that keeps you coming back. That's literally Tiger at this point. He, he smacks that stinger and he goes, Oh, I, I'm still Tiger Woods. I can still do this, but he can't. The idea of sustained as excellence is just impossible for him at this point in time. Yeah, it's the thing that we keep coming back to. There is no way he has, he has passed so many of the great markers where he could just say, like, okay, this is it, like 150th open at St Andrews, go stand on the Swilliken Bridge, wave goodbye to us. That was two years ago. That was the moment. Now when, when is it now going to be a better time for him to walk away and say goodbye? There's not going to be, well, I'm like, you think he, he said his cuts made streak at the Masters and all of a sudden he's like, all right, I'm ready to wave. Bye bye. No, there's not going to be the moment, like, unless this is a, unless it's like a brawny James situation. He's like, well, if I get to tee it up once with Charlie, then I can wait. There's no tent pole that he can point to and say, like, this is the time I will finally let go and I just think it's going to be so hard for him to do it. Yeah. Um, I didn't put any ducats down on Tiger Woods, but I do like, you still find yourself or at least I do hoping, thinking maybe anything, I didn't think 2019 was possible. I like 2019 was the, the most well insane thing that's ever happened. I always believed it could happen, but I didn't think it was happening in 2019. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's crazy. And that's, I mean, five years ago, but it just, the, the discourse around Tiger Woods was not that dissimilar to the way it is right now. You didn't have this sustained level of ineptitude at all the majors, missing all three cuts except for the, the masters where he finished well up the track. Mm hmm. Foundaway. But I mean, I saw him make a birdie putt on what was it, three in his opening 18. I was like, this, it's happening and don't let him, don't let him get hot. Don't let him make one early. I mean, he's, he's still not as old as Phil was when he won his last, right? Yeah. Well, even look at, no, but again, like what's the real physical age for guys at all these surgeries. Something that I don't know that they should be connected, but I think they are in terms of how he views his own like golf mortality was him saying, no thanks to being captain of the Ryder Cup team. Yeah. Now he's, he made the, I'll say it, excuse that, well, I'm just guys, I'm in so many meetings. I couldn't give it my all. I don't know. I feel like you probably could find a way to give it your all. I think a big part of it is now, Keegan Bradley, I don't think he thinks he's done either who gladly took the reins. I also don't think he can just pick a year to do it and it will always be there for him like Tiger. But I think that's a big part of it is Tiger saying thanks, but no, thanks to captaining the Ryder Cup. I don't even know that it's a conscious thought, but I think to him he goes, I'm not their coach. If I'm a, if I'm a coach, I'm a player coach and I'm putting myself in every match because we see Tiger at these things. He loves riding around and being on the earpiece and looking like he's on a SWAT team. It's his favorite thing in the world. And for him to say no, thanks to that, that really to me just hammers home. The idea that he doesn't think he's anywhere close to done yet, which is nuts. It's, is it embarrassing though? Like, I don't know. Like all Montgomery saying it's embarrassing is disagree. I mean, I saw Ernie L's out there too before he had with y'all. I had no problem. Okay. You know what? It's embarrassing and it wasn't when Ernie L's was it. This was what three, four, five masters ago when Ernie L's had like a six foot on his first home. Oh, my God. Did you remember this right now? Five to six. Whatever it was. That's embarrassing. Okay. But that has nothing to do with being decrepit or not being able to hold off over like kind of like the putting thing is something that goes with a yes, right? It does. But I look at that is that was just such a flash in the pan moment and yes, super embarrassing. Yeah. I don't know. We're out of golf course, what if someone saw that and then they had to go out there? Why would you do that to someone? I guess I shouldn't be talking about it so loudly. But that's embarrassing. Tiger Woods going out there and grit his teeth through sleet and rain or whatever's going on at the open championship. And again, the thing that he has always been great because he's Tiger and the transcendent heights. But then the tail end, the second peak, the Corey Perry third liner of Tiger Woods career, if you will, this has been such a part of it is the ability to not be at his absolute best and find a way. And that's why the cuts made streak at the Masters is so indicative of not who he's been his entire life as a golfer. But it's so indicative of, I mean, basically post last Masters win Tiger. And I think that to him, he would never come out there and say, I just want to go out there and grind to make the cut. But I think that those are the challenges that he still enjoys. And like he said, to Monty, he gets to play that thing until he's 60. Yeah. So long as he thinks there's, there's, and this is the thing about golf, not a problem with it because golf's the best. This is the thing about it though, that you can always find your challenge. It's why Michael Jordan, the most sick old competitor that any, that any athlete has ever been. It's why this is the game he chooses to focus on because you could never beat it. Yeah. I think that's what Tiger loves about it. Be Wyndham Clark though, who won a major just last year. Olympian. Yeah. Olympian Wyndham Clark. Yeah. I don't, I don't think it's embarrassing. Um, it just, you know what, I wish it was, it was like, okay, did you a little bit more relevant? I don't know if you saw this moment. This was on Friday or maybe it was on Thursday. It was a French guy and he like shanked a chip in the big fescue. Yeah. And he just did this. Just hand wave like if someone offers you something neat, like I'm good. And then he pointed to his back and he was just done like that's embarrassing of like, I can't hack this. I'm going to miss the cut. I'm done. It's cold. That's embarrassing. Tiger gritting through it and getting punched in the mouth by a great golf course where he beat a major champion from last year. Embarrassing. I suppose some people can see it that way. For me, it isn't. It's sad, but not embarrassing. Yeah. And there is a, there is a point of diminishing. And the only else thing is embarrassing, but that's on like the, the, the concrete greens of Augusta National. I would hazard to say that Scotty Sheffler's three putt from six and a half feet on greens that are like 10% slower than PGA two after getting dumped on for a whole day. Yeah. More embarrassing. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, you just, you just hate Scotty Sheffler. I mean, cause I don't hate him. I just think he's a fraud. You're just a big detractor. You're just like, you are, you are like the Paul Revere of Scotty Sheffler's a fraud. The fraud is coming. Yeah. The fraud is coming. Well, it's just because he's a fraud. Anyways. Even though I sent you some numbers, I like we don't, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Strike the middle number. Who cares about that? Who cares about that. Okay. I love me. I know a fraud, but I see one buddy, you know, I love takes like this. So I'm just happy you've, you've waited into my, my area of the pool where truth is a capricious animal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We don't need to talk about the truth. Like the Blue Jays being well out of it. The boss is not mattering at this point of the season. They want a game. Okay. Yeah. That's right. Yesterday against the Tigers and they're not going to lose today. They didn't get swept. He's not playing play the Rays tomorrow at home. When we come back, we'll talk to former Blue Jays bench coach, former Blue Jays catcher, Canadian baseball Hall of Famer, Ernie Witt next is the fan morning show continues from the 29th annual Jay's care golf tournament in support of the Jay's care foundation at Rattlesnake point golf club Ben and his Brent Gunning Sportsnet 590 the fan unrivaled insight, analysis and opinions on all things Blue Jays, Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Is a hour and a half away from from hitting the links. Very happy to be joined now by Canadian baseball Hall of Famer, former Blue Jays catcher team candidate manager Ernie Witt. Thanks for doing this. How's it going, man? It's great. I mean, how can you not like coming off to a golf course, sunshine in and going to tee it up and we'll see what happens. Yeah. You guys chose the right week for it as well because last week it was torrential rains and there's a lot of flooding. But yeah, today seems perfect. You used to have your own charity golf tournament, is that correct? I did. Yeah. So, we did a nobleton lakes, we did that for a number of years and then Darryl Centler and I came together and we held some of our tournaments here also at rattlesnake. That's a good good partner to form up for a golf tournament with especially these parts not bad. I can't help but notice you got the hat on there. Did you take in this year's US Open down to Pinehurst or have a nice friend? Everyone went and I this is what I got. I didn't have the opportunity but I haven't played that course and what a, that was a bugger. Okay. So, that's what I was going to say. This is, this is my, this is a golf takes from, from a month ago but I, by running commentary watching it is, looks beautiful. Everything I've heard is like greatest spot ever for a buddy's trip. I don't know that I hate myself enough to subject myself to play in that golf course. Was it fun? Well, there's, I think there's like nine or ten hundred courses that you can play in that. It's a lot more playable than Pinehurst itself. But it is quite a challenge. I did. Yeah. Yeah. It's quite a challenge. It's a frustrating. Yeah. You know, you think you hit a good shot and it just rolls off the green, you know, mirror and all the bump and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. The wire bushes. Yeah. What a finish though to that US Open. Yeah. Yeah. It was good finish. Did you, did you watch the Open Championship over the weekend? I saw parts of it over the weekend. I did. I, I'm not a big wind guy or rain guy. Well, that's, I was going to say, do you like golf enough to play in what they were doing over there? Yeah. I like sunny skies. Yeah. That works for me. You know, about 80 degrees. Yeah. That's, that's what I like about golf. Me too. But I do enjoy watching them suffer through it. You know what? They're human. You know what I mean? They do. You're pro athletes. So you, you have to sympathize. Absolutely. I mean, you know, it's, you're playing in that type of condition, you know, it's, to me, it's not meant to play that way. But they say that's the founding country and all that. And that's the way it was supposed to be played. I don't know. Do you have a not golf? I mean, maybe there's a golf route that sticks out to you. But like from your playing days, I mean, you know, obviously it gets to a point where you'll stop playing a baseball game. Do you have one? Maybe it was a really hot day, a really rainy day that you guys just played through. Like, is there a game that kind of sticks out in your, your mind as you can't believe you, you played through it weather wise in a baseball either? Yeah. Baseball. Yeah. Baseball. We had a few of them done at Exhibition State. Yeah. I guess I didn't factor the snow into it at all. So we had a few of them down there, but, you know, it is, you know, you try to play through it. Baseball is supposed to be a warm climate agreement, you know, game to play and when it's cold and windy and rainy, I mean, we had some, some tough weather on it. So I'm happy about that wonderful roof. They've got down there. Yeah. I think a lot of people are happy about that. That's for sure. Yeah. I was looking, you did play briefly in the Florida State League starting your career with the Red Sox, because I have a cousin that was in, he was a catcher in the minor league system at the Tampa Bay Rays and afternoon games catching in the, the Florida heat. That is, that is something you lose like 10 pounds in a game. It feels like when I played in the Florida State League, I don't remember because that was so long ago. Yeah. I think that was 1972. You guys weren't even born yet. No, no, no, 12 years away from me. Yeah. See, so, I mean, it was, it was hot, but you know, all of my years of coaching and since I was playing, I mean, we, we spent a lot of time in Florida and it's extremely hot in the summertime. You know, not a place to go until I in August, no, but I would highly recommend it in November and December. Yeah. It's a good time to visit. A lot of Canadians agree with you. Absolutely. Let's talk about this, this current edition of the Blue Jays team, which is obviously, it's, it's underwhelmed considering expectations and we expect a lot of the pieces that are pending for agents to be traded by the July 30th trade deadline. What do you imagine that the atmosphere is like in that clubhouse? We've been in situations like this where everybody understands the circumstances. Your effort level doesn't change, but everybody's looking around and understanding what the next couple of weeks is going to bring. Yeah. It's a difficult time, especially, like you said, to free agents. They're not playing up to expectation that we thought that, you know, we were going to have here with Toronto, you know, you're constantly looking over your shoulders and okay, someone coming to tap me on the shoulder that, you know, go see the manager, that type of stuff. It's, but you have to play through it, you know, you have no control over it. I mean, that's the biggest thing that I always try to tell players is that if you don't have control over it, why worry about it? Yeah. I mean, but you still do. When it's human nature, you've got your family, you've got to uproot, move to another city, you know, hopefully it's the city that you're going to. That's a contender as a professional athlete. That's the bottom line. You always want to play on a contender and have a chance to win a championship. And from a, from a kind of coaching managing standpoint, how, I mean, baseball is an everyday sport, you know, the, the idea of a coach, especially now, you know, it's just as much a, you know, a team mentor as it is actually like, you know, coaching guys through an infielder or anything like that. How does the job kind of change is the, and again, like not that the J's don't show up every day saying, hey, we could go win every game from here on out. We'll be in a playoff spot, but I, you know, the tenor of the season kind of changes as it goes along. How does the, how does the coaching or managing job differ from a, you know, a team that's really rolling and winning to some, a team that's kind of struggling and maybe underperforming where the team itself thought it would be? Yeah. I think you've just got to be consistent as a coach to think to bring out the same message on a daily basis and it's got to be a positive message. Yeah. You know, I mean, if you alter your, your, some of the things that you stand for when you start the season and you alter it, you know, their players are not dumb. They're going to see it and they're going to say, well, maybe have they thrown in the towel on us yet. And that's the worst thing you do. I remember back in the 80s, 70s and 80s, again, probably before your time, but there was times when it was more about, we don't want to lose a hundred games instead of just a little verbiage saying we want to win 85 games and that's, that's all it takes. I mean, you want some positive feedback coming out of your coaches and your, and the management group that you want. Hey, we're here. We're going to try to do the best we can and as players, you have to go out and you have to perform. Yeah, things have changed though when it comes to the, the message that comes from managers because John Schneider, I think is pretty similar to a lot of modern managers where it's nothing but positivity. It doesn't matter how bad you're going or what mistakes are being made on the field behind you. It's positive, positive, positive. We just saw a guy go into the Hall of Fame and Jim Leyland, he had some outburst of, you know, wasn't always positive. And I think there's a lot of Blue Jays fans that almost want that manager to be that release valve that that is as frustrated as they are. Like, so how do you, it just feels like that manager can't exist in today's baseball world. Well, I, I think it can exist. Yeah. I think it should exist. Yeah. I mean, it's sometimes you, a manager has a lot of fire under his team too. And if that means two and some butt out, then that's what you've got to do. Again, you won't see it so much like a Billy Martin where, you know, attacks the people in the dugout and he confronts them there. You take it behind closed doors, but the message is delivered that the way you're playing, what you're doing, how you're going about your business is unacceptable and it's not going to be tolerated. Well, and I guess we don't know if that is happening behind closed doors with John Schneider. And maybe it's not fair to talk about him specifically, but how, you know, it's one thing to do that behind closed doors and it's another to, to let the world know that it is happening. And is there value in, in letting the media into that or again, being a release valve for the fans so that they feel like, Hey, like, not everybody's happy that, and obviously the blue, no player in John Schneider's not happy that they're losing, but just like an outward display of emotion to the media that they can put their finger on and say at least like there's some somebody that relates to the way I feel about this team. I think there's ways that you can do that to get it across to the media that, Hey, this is a situation that we're handling internally right now. And that's, I mean, you don't have to say anything more than that. Yeah. And hopefully the fans can read between the lines that this is being addressed and, you know, we are concerned about it and from the management and coaches span standpoint. And you know, we are taking steps to try to direct it and move forward as we, as we continue with the season. Yeah. And also thinking again, like this isn't a Schneider thing. This is a baseball in 2024 thing. It's different when you're a manager that has that track record, right? Like of course we see it with Dusty Baker, but even a guy like with Detroit with AJ Hinch, right? Like he's been there, managed a World Series team. It does feel like when you have the track record, it's easier to kind of have the trust quite frankly, be it the fans, be it the media, whoever you're trying to get that message across to. But it just doesn't seem like there is the kind of as long a tenured managers as we used to see in the game either like it seems like the two are kind of completely tied together almost. I think the game of baseball is in kind of a transition period or has been in a transitional state for probably the last 10 to 15 years, you know, technology has become more apparent to not only the players, but the management, the coaches. But again, you still, you can't as a manager as a coach, you can't lose the feel for the game. Totally. You have to have a feel for the game, what you see, how to go about it, how to bring positivity to the team. This is what we're going to do, you know, I mean, there's a number of things that you can do, but it all has to be a process. You know what the average batting averages in Major League Baseball in 2024, Ernie? Probably two thirty-ish. Yeah, two forty-three. But yeah, the Mendoza line isn't the Mendoza line anymore. Like it's still, you don't want to hit under 200, but it used to be like the scarlet letter. Yeah, and the Major League average OPS is 709. The time of game, like the pay stuff, we've resolved it. I think everybody's in lockstep in saying that the pitch clock has been a rousing success. What do we do about the offense? Like this, this seems unsustainable to keep going at this rate. Well, again, I think maybe the pitch in is a little bit better now. I don't know, but I mean, there's always. It seems like you have to have some pride in making contact with the ball. You know what I mean? But it's hard when the ball skeins is throwing 104 again, but that's an exception. How many guys? I mean, are they all throwing 104 if they're out of the way pretty much or throwing 96 to 97, which again is a very difficult thing to do. But I think unless they they have movement, it's difficult. But again, I think we need to step up the batting average a little bit and get it higher than 243. Yeah. Well, so as part, you know, we think of it. It's funny. We always think of this issue in baseball and it typically I feel like people come to it from a pitching perspective of it's all power, power, power, and everybody striving for that triple digits on the gun. How much of it is the other side of it that it is power, power, power, but from a hitter perspective that they're and, you know, I don't think everybody goes up there. There are plenty of players who go up there not trying to hit a five run home or every at bat. But how much of it is just the mentality of that? Do you think it is just something of the game has flipped in terms of because, you know, it's not like you guys didn't like hitting homers back then. I'm sure you sure you love running into one, but it does seem like it is just a philosophical shift from the hitting perspective as well. And again, that's where you get back to the technology that's being involved in the game. Now every hitter that they go, they look for the launch angle, the exit velocity off the bat issue travel, X amount of feet, the pitchers and spin rate off the ball coming off. And there's so much technology involved with it now. And I know that when I was coaching with the Phillies and the minor leagues, we went over the Dominican and technology was just coming in using the exit velocity and the angles and stuff like that. And you've got a 16 year old kid that's, you know, grew up with it. Maybe 130 pounds dripping wet and he hits the ball and they look at the angles. Oh, that's perfect. I go perfect. It's a weak fly ball to center field. I mean, you've got to look at the personnel that you have, what you're capable of doing and they've got to learn how to get the most out of what they're capable of doing. That's a guy's not a big strong hairy guy that's going to hit the ball out of the ballpark. We'll learn how to hit the ball the other way, learn how to bond, how to move runners, play the game the right way. Talking to Canadian baseball Hall of Famer Ernie Witt, a guy that knew how to hit the ball the right way was Joey Votto in his heyday, he's 40 years old. You played to your 39 in the major leagues. He's 40 years old and he's gotten the call up to Buffalo, although it hasn't played a game because he suffered another ankle injury last Friday. But in Dunedin, he wasn't exactly tearing the cover off the ball. He's 40 and I appreciate anybody's effort to continue to play baseball. You have a whole life of not playing baseball ahead of you. But like, could you imagine doing what Joey Votto's doing starting at the Florida State League at 40 years old after a year? Like, this is a Hall of Famer. I think Joey Votto's going into Cooperstown when it's all said and done. Doing what he's doing at 40 years old, can you imagine doing that? No, I can't. I mean, I knew how difficult it was for me at 39 and then it'd be 40 and then going through injuries that he's gone through over the last year. I mean, I think it's great that he still has the passion that he wants to do it. But sometimes, you know, age comes into play and you have to just know when, okay, it's time to hang him up and just relax and enjoy the career that I had to play golf. Yeah. Maybe he doesn't play golf. I know he plays chess. Yeah, that's the problem. We got to get him straight to the other side. I'm not smart in the play chess. Was there a moment for you that you knew that it was over? Like, because I would have thought that that maybe arrived for Joey last year when he had the season and the red said, thanks, you had a great career, but no thanks. And then nobody signed him as a free agent and he's on a minor league deal with the Blue Jays. You would have thought that would have come. I'm not faulting anybody to play in the game. I don't know. I think as a professional athlete, you know, well, to me, I always said, if I'm not having fun playing a game and I'm not helping the team win, it's time for me to leave. And that's basically how it went. Yeah, it's got to be so you mentioned the two, the two parts of it, right? Am I helping the team? And do I think I can kind of do this and turn it around? It's got to be so tough when you have the reservoir of memories of being great that Jamie Votto has, you know, you make good contact as I was just talking about this last block with Tiger Woods. It's like, you have that one shot and you go, well, I am Tiger Woods. I could probably do this a few more times. I imagine Votto is thinking kind of some of the similar same things. Like, I think that would be the tough part about it is that when you get that feel, when you do, you know, really run into one, you got to think I could probably scratch out a few more of those. Yeah, you think so, but you know, sometimes you have to be realistic and sometimes it's hard to do. Boy is it? It's really hard to do. I mean, you talk about, we are talking to golf earlier. I mean, at one time, I was a three handicap. Yeah. Now I'm double digits and it's like, why can't I do what I did, you know, 20 years ago? It's it's it's just. I hate to probably do it. I think we golf between the years usually hate to break it to you. Yeah, you know, we're sitting here talking about Votto and obviously you're a Canadian baseball Hall of Famer, you know, it seems like so often with other sports in this country, we kind of have the conversation of like, wow, look at how the game is growing. And we we have these moments with baseball every time, you know, every time a Canadian starts against the J's or comes into town, but it's amazing how that once was filled with fanfare. And it was incredible. And now it's just a par par for the course of of baseball in this country. It's kind of crazy to see the I imagine for you, the kind of leaps and bounds. It's growing by. I mean, we have Josh Naylor. He's an all star. He's doing great things. And that's just one of the stories. I remember when Jason Bay was that guy and we couldn't stop talking about it. Now we it feels to a certain extent like we almost take for granted how many Canadians are playing the game at the highest level. Well, I don't take for I wouldn't think you would leave me. I look I look at all my watch them all because again, you know, as as a manager on the senior team, I look forward to seeing these guys and hopefully they're going to be playing representing the country at the next WBC. Yeah, I can't wait for that. We're having Frank Kettle and Otto on later who was on that Italy team on a heartbreaking loss. I was. Yes, it was. Yes, it was. I didn't talk to him. So the world baseball classic has been this rousing success. And a couple of years ago with the Mike Trout, Joey Otani showdown. What a what a great culmination. You couldn't script it any better than that. That finish there. So, so good. And yeah, again, it has been a great success despite the challenges that surround baseball when it comes to things outside of the bounds of 162 game regular season, especially with pitching. Yeah, ending limits. There's talk of the 2028 Olympics, including Major League Baseball players, Bryce Harper has been like the lead dog and trying to make that happen. Rob Manfred hasn't discounted the possibility in Los Angeles have to be in the middle of the season. You'd have to take a break. Does it make sense to you? Yeah, I think most athletes would love the opportunity to go and represent their country. I really do. And I just think I think with the WBC, I think it's a tremendous venue. I think the timing of it is terrible. I think the limitations that you have as far as players getting players, getting pitchers to throw, you're really not getting the true competition. You know, unfortunately, but you see what it has done, you know, gathering the fanfare of it all and the excitement as Ortani and Trout that, I mean, that's what people love to see. And I just wish that they could do that maybe instead of the all-star game. Yeah. Take a period off during the middle of the summer. It would have to be like two weeks though. And I think they could expedite it a little bit more than two weeks. I think they can get it done in 10 days. Really? Yeah, I think they could. And in that way, you know, owners probably are not going to like it when you have so much invested in some of these players. But if you want a true valley of a World Series type atmosphere, I think that's the best time. Especially a sport like baseball and where, you know, it's not soccer where you're pulling from literally every corner of the globe. But I mean, outside of maybe soccer and basketball, that is the next most global game, right? I mean, we see all the countries in Asia, the play is more and more happening in Europe and it does just seem like, again, the WBC is great and we all love it. But there is something about just the branding of the Olympics. It's the Olympics. I mean, again, like we're all Canadians here. We see how excited we get for hockey, but when they're playing at the Olympics, it really is something different. I think baseball will be able to kind of latch onto that. Absolutely. I absolutely agree. And we sit here today. It's a Monday, the 22nd, and in four days, the Olympics starts in Paris and there's no baseball. Yeah. Yeah. You know? How sad is that? And there's no baseball. You know? I'm with it. I don't think, I mean, nothing against breakdancing, but I think they have breakdancing. Hold on, is it? It is. It is. I found this out when the guy filling in for you told me last week, I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't know. Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm about a breaking ball. There's some, some breakdances that are punching the radio right now, Ernie. I know. I'm not trying to. Don't worry. Don't worry. Don't worry. Don't worry. Don't worry. They should have baseball softball in it. I'm with you. I mean, just as far as the mechanics are concerned, I mean, I'd be all for more scheduled double headers to reduce the, to keep the regular season ending at the same time. Yeah. There's no problem with scheduled double headers. Like we can do one or two of those a month. Like it doesn't seem extreme. And then like, it's hard to imagine the owner signing up if there aren't pitcher pitch limits though, Ernie. Yeah. That's the thing. I know. But I mean, more than, more than 49 pitches. Yes. I would. It isn't the first round. I think it's 49. Maybe, maybe 60. Yeah. I'd have to look back. But I think it's, I think it's 49 or 60. Yeah. But from a sports radio perspective, then we get to debate like, did the manager burn him too soon? Yeah. That's another debate. And it's another one. There's a 19. If you throw more than 19 pitches, you can't come back that following day. But usually in the WBC, we don't use the guys back to back days anyways coming out of the pen. You know, it's manageable, but you'd like to see the starting pitcher extend a little bit longer. Yeah. Fingers crossed. It would be awesome to see. I think so. Ernie. This was an absolute pleasure. Thanks for doing this. Well, thank you for having me on. We're here to enjoy a beautiful day with the Jayce Foundation. I think it's 29th year. That's right. 29 years. L99 years. Yeah. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. They do great work. We thank all the people that are coming out, all the sponsors. And it's, it's really just a great cause, you know, a lot of people benefit from it. And so we thank them for that. You get out there and play like that three handicap, not this double digits. Okay. You could do it. It's in there. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Muscle memorize there. I'm going to tell myself. I'm going to be great. People can go to jayscare.com/donate or jayscare.com/oxygen to take part in the mid-season auction. Ernie with. Thanks for doing this. Thank you guys. We'll talk to that evil Frank Catalunaro next. As the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Frank Gunning, Sportsnet 5.9 in the fan. (upbeat music) [MUSIC PLAYING]