SCU Buzz | The Southern Cross University podcast

Industry insights into Regenerative Agriculture: Primex panel discussion

How can farmers ensure their practices form commercially viable agribusinesses? From circular economies and naturopathic medicine to making composting cool, a panel of industry experts share their knowledge on turning regenerative practices into profit. This panel was held at Primex Field Days and included the following speakers: Regional Director, Northern Rivers at Business NSW, Jane Laverty (moderator); Founding Director of Jagun Alliance Aboriginal Corporation, Oliver Costello; Owner of Honeyvale Farm, Jackie Morrison; Owner of Five Sixty Farms, Pepe Fassos; Foundation Director of Southern Cross University’s National Centre for Naturopathic Medicine, Professor Jon Wardle; Director of FreshChain Systems, Greg Calvert; Professor of Environmental Engineering at Southern Cross University, Professor Andrew Rose; and Regeneration Connection Expert in Residence, Saadi Allan.

The musical introduction to this podcast was written and performed by Alako Myles.

Photo credit: Primex Field Days

Duration:: 1h 31m
Broadcast on:: 23 Jun 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

(upbeat music) - Good afternoon. My name is Jane Lavity. I'm the Regional Director with Business New South Wales. As I look across the room, I feel like I know every single face that's here and that really pleases me because I get up every day to champion business and industry and it's always nice to put a name to a face. So thank you for being part of today as we celebrate agriculture and regenerative agriculture. Gives me great pleasure to introduce you to our panel this afternoon. I'm really excited about this group of people. It's not for the faint heart of putting a panel together for an audience such as yourselves, but I think I'm calling this group the super panel. So I'm just not sure. I think we've got a couple of slides to move along to that pop the panel along there. If we can do that, that would be great. Could I please welcome up to the stage Oliver Costello again. Thank you, Oliver. Pepe Fasos. Pepe's from 560 Farms, a local farmer. Very excited to have Pepe with us. Professor Andrew Rose from Southern Cross University who heads up the recirculated program. The amazing Jackie Morrison. Please just pop up and take your seats. Take any seat. And Jackie is from Honeyvale Farms. John Wardell from SEU. John heads up the natural products area of the university. Sadie Allen, who I mentioned, who is our expert in residence for the Regeneration Connection Program. And I'm bringing Greg last because poor Greg is a little ring in. We had Tom Andrews, who you will all note in your program as speaking on the panel. And Tom had a family emergency and wasn't able to come down. And I'd been hearing all these amazing things about Greg Calvert from Fresh Chain Systems. These things just happen for a reason. So Greg, please join us up on the stage as part of our panel. Please welcome the panel. Thank you very much. So I am opening up this session with a group of people who I think have the brightest minds, the biggest hearts and a passion for sustainable, healthy lands. It is a super panel. I'm passionate about doing the right thing and doing things right. And that is how I look at regenerative agriculture. I think there are some beliefs and maybe even misconceptions about regenerative agriculture, which we'll be able to touch on today because it is important that we have commercially viable agri-businesses. We want to do the right thing, but you have to actually make money to continue doing the right thing. So that means we need to be productive for the long term. Greg, I'm just going to pass that one to you. Oh, was that a little clap? Yes, you love that. Thank you. I like positive reinforcement. So just keep that coming up. It's very good, very good. So I'm going to start with a question for all of the panel members, just to kick start us and warm us up. You're sharing microphones sort of two at a time. So you guys can work that out, I'm sure. I'll start with you, Greg. Could you just share with us your connection to regenerative agriculture and how this practice relates to your business, work and life and what drives your passion? Well, thanks, Jane. And yes, I am a late ringer. So I'm not sure I should be going first here, Jane. But so Greg, from Fresh Chain Systems, we're a reg tech and provenance platform provider, specifically focused around digital ND and traceability, provenance, brand protection, and export markets, counterfeit, cold chain management, and also around streamlining market access requirements. And so for us, I was thinking about our role that we play. The amazing work that gets done around the farming community and regen practices is incredible. But how do you extract that benefit beyond the farm? And I think if I look at some of the requirements that are coming out of places like the EU and deforestation, et cetera, not only are you going to have to do the work, but you're going to have to prove that work in a verifiable way. So companies like Fresh Chain, we support using digital traceability, things like a digital product passport, which is a bit technical. But it's effectively a digital record that can go and travel with the product to verify with other supply chain actors around the compliance requirement. So just that one element of data that you guys own, you don't go sharing everything. But that data then has to be verified from the actual issuer of that credential. And it's going to be one of the requirements for market access over time. So how do you actually do that with a digital format? And then be able to pass that data through the supply chain to either add to that data and verify it, or simply pass it through to the end customer who will validate that credential for access to markets. So for us as a company, we're not necessarily doing the regen processes, but we help you actually advance the benefit of that through the supply chain. So that's us. Yep, thanks so much. Sadi, off you go. Well, look, even though I'm the expert in residence, I'm by no means an expert in regenerative agriculture. I've had a lot of exposure to it over the years and grew up in the hills around the Channon area, on intentional communities, that first wave of settlers who came through. So all of that, the philosophies were very strong there. But even going back, my grandfather in the late '50s was early adopter of Ken Yumen's work around key line agriculture. So there's been a big tradition of agriculturalists in Australia trying to figure out how to have less impact and support by diversity for a long time. And I see regenerative agriculture and regenerative business more broadly. As at the moment, a very broad church with different camps. And I think everyone has a place right now. Being the hippie boy that I am growing up in the Channon Valley and watching Beto out old farmland kind of come back to life. Is that what drives your passion? Just, yeah, just being-- seeing the power of the land to kind of do its thing, if it's sensibly managed, has really informed my approach to work in business and a lot of the work that I've done. So subpod, my company I was CEO of until about three weeks ago, was all about composting and getting people doing vermicomposting. Globally, as a community, there's about 65,000 users of the product in 22 countries. And they're offsetting millions of kilos of food waste a week. And often, turning it into beautiful produce. So those are the types of things I grew up with. And I guess I've taken a different tact, rather than being in agriculture. I've gone OK, well, if this is the type of world, I'd like to live in where we recognize we're part of nature. How do we get consumers to recognize that? Because without the consumers buying the value-added products, there's not the market there. And I guess that's what I hope to be able to bring to this program is I'm not the expert in regenerative ag. But I can help with setting up the systems, looking at the pitfalls of scaling, how you do it properly if you actually want to do it. Everyone wants to go global. But I haven't slept well for a decade. You've got to know what you know. And that's what I hope I hope I can bring to people who are really trying to do this work and help really amplify the space. That's my hope. Thanks, Sadi. We'll flesh that out a little bit more later. John, I know you're a very passionate person. And you're a little bit of an interesting one to have on this panel. But I was just so excited to have you here. And a passion for that whole food is medicine sort of thought process you have. Yeah, so look, I guess I'm a bit of a weed ringing because my initial qualification wasn't health. But one thing that a lot of people know is the first qualification I started, didn't finish, was actually environmental science at Griffith. And even though my bio says I came here from UTS, and I'm just another Sydney bozo that's moved to the Northern Rivers, I actually was born in Darwin and grew up in the territory in North Queensland and lived in regional agricultural areas most of my life. And that link between land and health and has always been apparent. And as a public health person, now one health is very much a discussion that's happening there. But from a very personal experience, my stepfather was a lychee farmer and mango farmer. He wanted to go organic. Organic was too expensive. He was on a certification. You have to get an organic truck to send it to an organic market to her. So he kind of went regenerative without calling it that. And he'd probably hate to call it that because he hates labels. But he had massive respiratory issues. They disappeared. He had skin issues. They disappeared. He had rheumatoid symptoms. They disappeared once he started letting not mowing between the trees. He saved water. He reduced, yeah, his pesticide use. And the fruit actually was a lot better. And he was actually selling to Japan and Asia and getting a much better price than he was sending it to Brisbane for the market. So I think one of the things I find really fascinating-- and we're doing this at SCU with our Vet Science program, our Regen Ag program, the Natural Products Hub that we're doing with the Faculty of Health Involvement, breaking down those barriers. And really, there's a lot of links in between them. And one of the things I really love about Regen Ag is it's healthier land, makes healthier farmers, makes healthier produce, makes healthier consumers, and delivers healthier returns for everyone involved. So it's a win-win-win situation, not win-win-win-win situation. And it's just something I see a lot of potential in. Fantastic, and we'll come back to you a little later to around how that becomes a commercial opportunity. So we'll go to Jackie. Jackie, I'll ask you to share with us your connection to regeneration, regenerative agriculture, and how this practice relates to your business, which is amazing, and your work and life, and what drives your passion. So we run a pretty diverse farm. And I love what you were saying about regenerative agriculture, not just being about the food that you put in your mouth, too, because I think what we do really reflects what we think of as regenerative agriculture. We run Val and a Honey, and you probably see the honey around in IGA's and spas, and we post all over Australia. But to us, the real winner is things like beeswax and other natural products like gum rosin that we do. They get used to everything from lip balms to lubricants on cutting blades to parties or horses hooves. We see regenerative agriculture as not just our connection to the food we put in our mouth, but the things that we use and touch and do all day and every day. And we also have Honeyvale Farm, where we use supermarket waste and distillery byproducts, and any waste food that we can get hold of as well as regenerative practices on our land to feed our cows and our pigs and our chickens. We do salamis and free-range pork and that sort of thing. And we see doing that as our connection with our community and being that link in the chain of a circular economy, something that's really sustainable over generations. And to us, that's a really important part of regenerative agriculture just as much as the food that we put in our mouth. Wonderful. I think that's a fabulous segue through to Peppy when you talk about family and the like. But Peppy, again, there must be something that's in the blood of those on farm, because you're all very passionate, particularly when you're looking at things, as Jackie explained, really holistically. Please do share what this means to you. Christine, hello, everyone. My name's Peppy Fassar, so I'm the owner, director of 560 Farms. You probably see our farm as you come over a parrot's nest and you're heading down towards Lisbon. We've got those two big tunnels that we rebuilt in the floodplain. But we're just going gone home. And yeah, we specialize in microgreens, edible flowers. But we've also now incorporated almost three hectares of market gardens. We service three farmers markets in the area. We supply local supermarkets, a myriad of restaurants. But we're focused on the coast. We do a little bit in this area. But I've also taken the journey further. I've joined and become a committee member on the Global Agritourism Network, which was basically it's an agritourism project to promote regenerative farming and create a stronger consumer farmer connection again. Because we're in a time-- I'll get into it more later. But it's all stemmed from my history of growing up in the area. I'm 47. I grew up in Barren Bay in a Greek restaurant. I was literally put in the corner of the restaurant and said, can't get a babysitter. So by the time I'm five, I'm making coffee. I'm serving cake. I'm walking around the restaurant. And I got people skills. And I learned that my father, if he didn't grow what he used in the restaurant, he would ring the local farmer. He'd ring the fisherman before all those laws come in. So the fisherman had dropped off the geo-fish he caught. And it was amazing. And his menu would be based off what he could source locally. And it taught me a lot about seasonality, which basically has brought me to this point of understanding and educating the times of changing. And I'll get more into it later. I've got a lot to save out of it. My work with the Global Ag Tourism Network overseas is now getting larger. Our committee's got 600 members. There's a conference going on in Italy right now. As I'm speaking, and there's a video of me playing. They've cloned me for the day. It's pretty bizarre. But it's a great project where we're helping communities connect back to the circular economy and the farming industry. Because a lot of foreign investment is buying these poor Pacific Islands. For example, when they're importing their foods. And these people can't even send their kids to school. So it's a beautiful project. And back to Vanuatu next month to continue to work. But let's save it. I'll leave it at that. Thanks, Pepe. Don't you worry. I'll be back to you now, Ollie. Yeah, so I'm the executive director for Jugwin Alliance, amongst many other hats. But, and yeah, when Jane hit me up to come and speak at the panel first, then I was sort of like, oh, what am I going to talk about? And also, I couldn't even get there. Because I've been in Adelaide all the week for the Natural Hazards Research Australia Forum. So, you know, on the board of Natural Hazards Research Australia, so when the Commonwealth's peak kind of investment in Natural Hazards Research, so we have a $100 million plus research program, mainly focused on sort of emergency services and sort of land management sort of interests. But we're increasingly growing that kind of participant model and engagement model to kind of consider that Natural Hazards affects everybody, even the people that aren't impacted on the ground. The supply change, the families, the relationships. If you look across Australia, in the last few years, every local government area has been impacted by a natural hazard. And everybody here is well aware of that. Yeah, so, and I thought, oh, what I'm going to talk about? And when I told my wife this morning, oh, what are you doing? I'm going to talk at this Prime X about, you know, returning to agriculture. And she was like, I was like, I joke around if I'm an expert. And she's like, well, look at your gardening, you know? [LAUGHTER] So I'm definitely not an expert at growing food in a modern agricultural context. But my skill set is more, and I grew up, you know, like I grew up on farms. Like, you know, my step family that I grew up with, the stewards of Stewart's Road, I grew up an old dairy country. And, you know, so a lot of, you know, like my family were the, you know, the dairy farmers that survived the, you know, the changed refrigeration and some that didn't. So I learned that story when I was very young. My grandfather was a beekeeper, too. My mother's side. My great, great grandfather was a soldier settler out on the Lachlan. And he was a, primarily a sheep, a wool farmer. But then, yeah, went into cropping as well. So I grew up on farms thinking about farming. Wanted to be a farmer when I was young. But I also wanted to be on someone that cared for country. And when I was very young, I was like really wanted to like, you know, like go hunting and fishing, you know? And learn about plants animals. And so, yeah, long, long story. But, yeah, essentially like my work now is very much focused around caring for country as a pathway to reduce the impacts of natural hazards, you know, particularly fire. I'm a, got a bit of expertise around cultural fire management. And trying to tell a story about the different way we think about things and doing, doing things like, that applying fire for me is not about reducing risk and protecting life and property. We do that when we burn. But the reason why we burn is to care for the country and the plants and animals that belong there. And they're all our old food and fiber, like that. So when we, you know, like burned a buribi song line, the koala song line, we're looking after buribi koala, but we're also looking after all the eucalypt, all the grass, all the species that live in that country, you know? And yeah, so there's a lot of story and knowledge about, you know, obviously, you know, trying to grow things up that eat grass, we have a lot of yarn about that, you know? But we also have a lot of yarn about the things that lives in the gullies and the creeks about the medicine and the, you know, the different spiritual connections, the totemic relationships that we have. So Jugwin's work is really looking at restoring those cultural pathways and cultural practices that main country are healthier and safer and more productive. And we're doing that principally through fire, but also in the wake of the floods. I grew up in flood country, I end up in this light becoming a fire person 'cause I lived in the Blue Mountains and big yarn, but yeah, so when the floods hit, it was really obvious to me that we had a lot of similar issues in the way we think about flooding as well. Yeah, and so I wrote a submission to the flood inquiry and that led to the key recommendations for environment. And now Jugwin has a quite a large healing rivers program, which is about, like, yeah, slowing water down, keeping the country hydrated, you know? Like getting the trees back to catch the water, getting the roots to put the water in the ground, keeping all the nutrients, you know, all the stuff that makes things grow up where they belong on the flood plains and that. And so, yeah, we're doing fire water work that's about regenerating agriculture in a very deep sense that we're about caring for the species that belong there, but also caring for the whole country that then helps to create the resources and the nutrients and stuff that everybody needs to do. Anyway, and we're also doing stuff around health. Like, you know, like, you know, prescriptions, like caring for country and being in nature and being eating good food makes us healthier. So being able to understand that holistic framework is like regenerative, you know? And we have this yarn where it's sort of hard to explain in a way, but my purpose in life is to give back more than I take from country. And so like when you're young, when you're growing up, like you, everything is just kind of given to you. And yeah, yeah, and we need to look after a young to grow up, otherwise they don't survive. Yeah, and so we've, you know, the bank starts to, you know, like the deposits are being deposited, you know? And as you get a bit older, you start to be able to give back. You learn stuff, you can do stuff, you can be productive, you know? But, you know, as one person, there's only so much you can do. You've had like, and you're still living, you're still eating, you're still like breathing, you know, like all these things that we're doing, we're still taking from country, you know? Well, the trees, they're all, well, and all the energy comes from the sun, you know, like these systems, yeah? So, having, I've had an impact, yeah. I'm going to stop these synergies with you in our moment. I'll just finish up, sorry, I've got a bad habit of just getting going. But just to say that the end of it is, as we get older and we get taught the right way, we start to learn how to share knowledge and share our practice, and that's what we're all here to do. We start to give that real opportunity to not just do what we do in our own life, to put each other, pass it on to other people to do it in their own lives. And that's when you have impact, that's when you start to give back more than you take. And so, so important that we come together like this, and we start to, and we continue to share the things we need to know and support each other to grow so that we can give back more than we take. (audience applauds) - Ollie, you can let your wife know that we have a little video of today's panel, and you're going to be able to send her that video, and she will never question again why you're an expert, Andrew Rose. - Well, I feel like there's a bit of a theme coming through here, which seems to me that none of us really feel like we belong here, so that makes me feel like that, anyway. My background is environmental engineering, and I guess my area of interest, my passion is really around the circular economy, which a couple of people have touched on already, and so when I looked at the theme of regenerative agriculture and started to think about, well, you know, how do I relate to regenerative agriculture, and having had the opportunity to listen to everybody else speak, I feel like we all bring different experiences and background together, and the fun part about working towards solving a problem together like this is that it's the diversity of that knowledge and experience that we can bring to bear. So I would like to think that that's part of what my role is at Southern Cross University, so I'm the co-lead of a program that we call the Recirculator, the Regional Circular Economy Accelerator, and the aim of that program is really to build connections, both between ourselves and people in the community, but also between others. So I guess to use the jargon, we want to call ourselves knowledge brokers, in other words, people who both accumulate knowledge from learning from others, but then are able to share that. How I think that relates to regenerative agriculture, the circular economy is not regenerative agriculture, and regenerative agriculture is not the circular economy, but there's a lot of overlap between the two of them. And so I guess I won't go into too much detail about the circular economy now, but I think the one point that I did want to make is that at its heart, the circular economy is not about waste. And I think a lot of you have probably heard of the circular economy. Some of you might be more familiar with the concept of the circular economy than others, but actually at its heart, it's about regenerative practice and building a system where we value materials, which is basically what we use as a society. And so that does touch on things like waste, but a lot of the materials that we use are food and the various inputs into our food production systems, and then the materials that we return to the land afterwards. And so, yeah, I won't go into too much detail about that now, but that's, you know, having the chance to reflect on it, I think there is a really strong connection between the underpinning principles of the circular economy and regenerative agriculture. And yeah, no doubt we'll get to expand on that a little bit. - You will now realise that saying 60 to 90 seconds to quickly introduce yourselves and what you're passionate about, probably is wishful thinking. But I think what we've done is established here the credential of a great group of people that we can now mold and have this further discussion and go into a bit of a deeper dive. And I'm actually going to come back to you, Ollie, because you've shown that strong connection between regenerative agriculture, land management and First Nations culture. And it's obviously something that you are really passionate about. So, and there's probably some conversations around this very big word of regenerative agriculture. I'm just going to say regen ag from now on, but it's made up of so many things. But what I'm really keen to understand from you is what opportunities do you see for collaboration between our First Nations Indigenous communities and the agricultural practitioners themselves? - Yeah, well, yeah, I feel like I used up on one material before. - Yeah, you got it done. - No, it's, you know, like, I feel like we have this idea that there's like, we're always chasing new things, shinier things, you know, like, and I think about regenerative agriculture and I think about the way all people cared for country. And I think, yeah, that's how it worked. We'd be regenerating the country all the time and it would be giving, giving, giving, giving back more. And so those concepts I think that we have around and the stories that we have in this landscape, like I could start banging on. And then not really my stories that tell, you know, a lot of more knowledgeable people than me that tell those stories, but like I've been listening and seeing them and learning them, they're teaching us about that relationship that we have to place and to country and the way that energy and, you know, like different processes that are inherent in our body, you know? And, you know, the river in our veins and the fire in our belly, like the energy from the sun and make the food for the belly of the fire. So when we think about fire in the landscape, we think about ourselves and we think about the values that we have. And so, yeah, we can learn a lot from each other about, you know, like understanding where things are going to grow better and where they're not and where we can, we can be more productive. And, yeah, and like the fire management story, you know, like understanding reading the trees and the soil. Same in the river, you know, in the floodplain and the wetland and stuff. And we have different stories like now you see the boogum on the trees. Who knows what boogum is? Anyone got their hand up? - No. - No, yeah. - It's an opportunity. - No, that's not it. - It's all good. Boogum is known as the Morton Bay Chestnut or the black bean. And they call it the black bean because of the, because our mob used to always be chasing this bean around the landscape and eating the bean. The big green beans, you see them, the pods, they look like these, you know. They used to be all through a lot of this country and they make a lot of food, like, means of tons of food, these big beans. And now you think, you know, maybe we'll go and get some of them beans and have a feed-ay. Well, if I don't teach you the law for them beans, you're going to get sick and die. And so being taught the law of the species and the values to understand when and where and how they are productive and are safe to use is the story, really, of regenerative agriculture. From my point of view, it's understanding those systems and like a big yarn, but they, yeah, like, there's a lot of knowledge in the landscape. And that's what regenerative agriculture is about, understanding the knowledge in the landscape and how you can be productive and the responsibility that you have not just to take, but to give back and regenerate. And we have so much work to do to regenerate these landscapes, restore our wetlands, restore our forest pathways. And I hope that you're all here to be a part of that as well and to bring the knowledge you have about how to do food well and to learn from each other and learn from country. And so we can, yeah, we can feed more people and we can create a safer and more sustainable landscape, not just for us here in the Northern Rivers, but we have an opportunity to shape not just this landscape because we can give back more to lots of other people around the world that want to learn how to do things. And we've got some of the best things that we can teach you. - Thanks, Ollie. And already I've sort of got a note to myself, Sadi. We need to talk more to Ollie about being involved in some of our town halls where we, I think an opportunity to really explore this because I think when you understand that connection and relationship, you can build those stories into your products as well and how you go to market. So there's some great knowledge that you have there and I could listen, I could listen to you talk about that all day, but I'm going to go to Pepe, who I can also listen to all day. Just in case people don't know, Pepe is actually a father of five children. He didn't wear his medals out today, but I think he probably should. So when we say, you know, the family farm, you've taken that quite literally. I think everyone's got a job on the farm and plays a very important part. What attracted you to regenerative farming specifically? I know we know the story in the restaurant and everything there, but does sort of a part of it play, is it a role because of the children and that legacy that you want to leave for them? And like ensuring that you've got soils and practices that will take them out over the longer term. Jane introduced me two years ago at a business near South Wales breakfast and she said I had five kids, I've actually got eight. (laughing) It's okay, it's great. It gives us a laughing point. No, that's fine. (laughing) No, it's impact. Yeah, that's what it's all about. (laughing) Love it to me. - Yeah, we'll turn it off to the guy. - I know, anyway. So the family legacy for us, okay? Just a quick history lesson. After World War II, the green ag movement exploded. The small niche business run by a family suffered, right? We centralized and food became sent to big corporates. Like Woolworths, Coles, you know? They've fed us for all these years, but since COVID, there has been a shift and I mean, we're in a good place at the moment. Our farm and the models that do the same and the family tradition of that is the fact that the systems changed. When COVID was on, we couldn't go to those plates. We could, but people wanted the health of people. The ability changed our ability, but it's stuck. And our mindset has changed to a healthier, more nutrient-dense lifestyle, which bleeds into your family life. And that is what we have tried to create at home. I mean, look, I'm a corporate capitalist hippie. You could say, we homeschooled these kids. We bought them up. My wife has a successful hair salon on the property also. So it's a multi. It's a very, but it's like the salon, the house, the farm. So in between homeschooling, we'd both run back to the kids and it was just awesome. But these kids have grown up with a different idea on life now. But back to the history, it's like the people just, and this is one big, I wanna connect with the farmer again. They wanna eat a more nutrient-dense product because they may have went to a farmer's market because they were open during COVID and all these things that I've seen a huge parabolic shift in and business-wise. And people are stuck and they're telling their friends. And it's spilling into the family because we're decentralizing now. We're coming back to these root cause and traditions that my friend has been speaking on. We've got to adapt traditional ways again. And being the family, we are. We are by saying eight kids, hopefully sending out eight more of the next generation to spread that because it's the way it's gonna work. And it all enties into regenerative. Regenerative can mean so many things, but regenerative means to renew and restore. So we're going back to old ways. Agriculture's changing. It's just such a good time to be in the position, I mean. Thank you. - Thank you, Pepe. And sorry, you never, the eight kids? Like, is that even possible? - I read the email and I thought, "Nana, I'm gonna do it." - She's not gonna correct her. I'm the five to the eight Jackie. Now, you've had a really interesting career trajectory. Am I right that I read you were trained as a boilermaker? And then you've gone from there to pest management. Can you just talk us through that kind of work journey that you've taken and your passion for the healthy soils? And I'm gonna go to this agroecology. So I've taken a very different path. You know what life's like, where money comes and goes and you can spend it over and over again and make it again, but your time, you only ever get to spend once. So I'm a big believer in seizing opportunities to learn new skills and gain new knowledge. And that's always sort of driven what I've done. I used to run a business as a, I used to do trail rides and pack horse tracks and contract mastering. And then I did my time as a boilermaker and did that for a bit and always had a farm on the side. And it was actually being in the horse industry that really made me aware of how much damage you could easily do to a piece of land and how you could damage it so quickly and it was a lot harder to bring it back again. And you can have a field just covered in weeds and you could just be spraying out later upon later of weeds spray and trying to look for better ways to do things is actually what drove me to look into soil health and what I'm actually working here today as a Southern Cross Uni student ambassador after 20 years doing other things. I've gone back to uni and learning more and making great connections about sort of what we can do to improve soil and that's actually led me to, I'm doing a Nuffield Scholarship to study Integrated Pest Management in beekeeping. So we probably don't have, is there any beekeepers here in the audience? A few little hands up. Yep, so things to do with Varroa might on bees. You might think it doesn't affect you very much. How many people here eat food that's pollinated by bees? That would be absolutely everybody. It doesn't matter if you're a vegan or if you don't eat dairy or what you don't eat. You're eating things that are pollinated by bees. So you've had a really exciting journey with regenerative agriculture through Nuffield sponsored by AgriFutures. I get to travel around the world and learn how we're going to manage Varroa might in our bees without dousing them in chemicals that leave residues in honey and residues in wax. And that'll be, this is just an amazing area here for beekeeping. So it'll be a really exciting journey that will also help a lot of other beekeepers in the area. I've always loved the attitude in the northern rivers that if you're doing agriculture and if you're involved in food, even if you just have a backyard hive and a veggie patch, that you should be avoiding chemical residues and you should be doing things in a sustainable way. So, yeah, lots of exciting journeys going on. - And the boiler making trade, you just gave that the flick all together? - Well, I actually, because we bought quite a run new, I have a real passion for restoring things and making things. And we actually bought quite a run down farm. So I'm actually working as a boiler operator on the side as well to get a bit of capital together to get our farm going exactly how we want it. But boiler making is just, you know, it's 2020, it's the, it's 2024, it's the 21st century. I don't see any reason to let all these men have the fun jobs that make all the good money anymore. So, absolutely. - And my husband's a fitter and turner. So between the two of us, we can make and build absolutely anything. It's just all part of that journey of you only live once. So grab all those skills and grab all that knowledge and all those great connections that you can find. It's just really fun. Boiler making is one of the few trades where you get to make something from scratch and something that will last for generations and outlast you, just, it's one of the similar to farming, the same sort of attraction in that. - Yeah, absolutely. And I'm thinking like the MacGyver of this century, really. And which is what farmers are continuously innovating 'cause you can't often afford to just be buying new machinery all the time. But between the two of you must be pretty cool space to be. You can fix everything and re-engineer everything as well. - Well, yeah, well, that's one of the fun things. And even if you can't afford to, it's just such a farmer thing to have more fun making yourself and probably spending twice as much, but making just what you want and just how you want it out of five different pieces of machinery that didn't work that well. - Absolutely, thank you. You're absolute delight, Jackie. Good, I know I can sit and talk with you all day as well. As I said, John, I'm really excited to have you on this panel because the whole food as medicine piece, I think has a real connection with regenerative agriculture in terms of that nutritional value. And I'm keen to just explore that a little bit further with you as the difference that it can make for the regen ag practitioners. And from a commercial perspective, how you see that maybe taking shape into the future? - Yeah, 100%. Obviously, healthier farming practices make healthier food. And I think there is a growing community trend to food as medicine, which is smaller doses or something healthy over time. But actually, food as medicine is a much bigger concept with, I think, a far bigger economic potential than we probably realize. It's not just about the crops, the horticulture. It's about finished products. It's about value-rating products. There's a lot of waste-stream potential there as well. We're working with one of the world's largest supplements ingredients companies, IMCD. One of the things they're really keen to actually work with is find enough passion fruit farmers to actually give them the same stuff out of the skins that they're usually thrown away when you make juice that actually use the same healthy compound, the red wine hat. So there's a lot of work with dairy farmers, for example, you can actually let your stuff ferment and actually get a much better price per liter. There's a growing recognition of that. You see a lot of every TikTok influencer in Australia at the moment is either using the collagen or a gelatin supplement. The most common one is Great Lakes. It comes from the US. It says it's organic. It talks about its farming practices. Well, I know for a fact that they are not doing anything more than anyone else are doing. They're just marketing that sort of regenerative practice a lot better. So I think there's a potential from everything from finished product to medicinal products, the compounds that make the antioxidant compounds that make food healthy are usually the ones that are developed as mechanisms to prevent disease or pests actually encouraging them. So when you have a monoculture in your brain and you're reliant on that kind of thing, you're actually reducing the things in a plum or a blueberry that actually can make you market it as a heart healthy food. If you-- there's a lot of-- I've just been in Canada and there was the star of the CHFA show, which is a sort of bringing the supermarkets, the health food stores, and suppliers there was actually a honey product, which was the lotage product. And the whole reason that was the star of the show was it was made in Prince Edward Island. It was about provenance. It was about the story behind that. It was about the sustainability, how that was protecting the forests in that area. And so it was a lozenge, but it was a story that was being sold as well. And you see that with a whole host of other potential food products. And people want to invest in that story. And there's a lot of-- people are actually thinking of foods. And particularly, I guess bespoke foods. There's food for sustenance. And there's food for sustenance of the soul that people take. And people are wondering everything from what's the fat profile of the beef that I'm having, or where does this come from. I remember I used to work at Lake's Creek Meat Works in Rockhampton as my high school job. I know Casino has a beef about beef with Rockhampton, so don't hold that against me. But one of the things I found really interesting is a massive boost to my paycheck once. And we found out what was that about as I-- prod pay, there's a waste product that was really valuable. And I think sometimes the thing that has a real medicinal or health benefit in most foods are the kind of things we ignore. We throw away. Or to be honest, I don't actually taste that nice. So we try and discourage them in our production. But if we can actually rethink of these as potential assets to incorporate in our food production and actually look at these opportunities that people are desperate to buy. In Australia, functional foods are a $15 billion export industry, complementary medicines and supplements are a $6 billion export industry. And it's the supply chain is 90% imported, mainly China. And mainly synthetic people don't want that. Consumers don't want that. But we need to find a way to actually get-- and we know for a fact that the manufacturers don't want that. And actually, it's part of their sustainability initiatives. They're trying to go for more domestic supply as well. But there's a gap between finding suppliers who can actually produce these things, or even knowledge that you guys as suppliers might even be able to produce. And so some of these things. So look, there's an enormous potential in everything from being able to put a fruit with a health claim, like queen gun of plums, to a finished product. There's some really great stuff happening in Byron. For example, there's a guy making fermented kombucha and dairy products that's now making millions on the esports gamer market as a nootropic that increases-- but it's a natural product. It's a finished natural product. But at SU, what we're trying to do at Harvest to Health is basically work on developing this as a tool for regional growth in the economy from everything from-- it was going to be called plant to patient. But that doesn't include dairy, doesn't include molesk, it doesn't include fungi, so now we call it Harvest to Health. But seed to shelf, plant to patient, whatever you want to call it, bringing all parts of that supply. You've got all the taglines going on. You haven't even joined, you haven't landed on it fully yet. They always have to have-- you know, be a literative. Have to have the same letter. But it does sound like there's two parts to this. One is about doing-- having good soil. And by doing good regenerative agriculture practices, you have more higher density nutrient foods. So that's that whole functional foods piece. But then it also sounds like you're integrating into some of that circular economy and waste side of this as well, where it's not waste. It can again be more functional and used in other ways. Yeah, and it's not just waste. You know, it's a valuable potential asset. But I think, you know, that growing quality is really important, because if you are going to go in that higher value market, you do actually have to demonstrate a certain level of these compounds in your foods or whatever they are. And the thing that changes that is the quality of your soil. If you look at a lot of what happens in Europe, products are monitored basically from the time the seed is put in the ground to the time they're actually harvested and sold. So, you know, there are other ways you can do that through making more inputs. But, you know, inputs are expensive. But actually things like regenerative agriculture are really great because you actually reduce your inputs and you get better outputs. So, it's a really, you know, it's a really, you know, great way of making sure that those compounds you're actually trying to get, if you are going to market on those compounds are actually in there. Or, you know, if you're looking at animal products, for example, you know, making sure that the, you know, the fatty acid profiles and that kind of stuff are actually - You don't get too scientific on us, John. All right. - I think options for everyone. - Yeah, no, I'm hearing you. I'm going to come to you, Greg, sorry, study. I'm just going to skip over for a moment because I just want to link back up to that, you know, the knowing where your food comes from piece. And I think that really connects with the technology that Greg has there using blockchain. Because it is, blockchain is about being able to tell a story, I believe. Greg, do you want to just talk out through what the advantages for a farmer that is investing? You know, all their times, their efforts, their passion and dollars into these practices and connecting in with blockchain and what that opportunity might there be to tell the story? - Yeah, thanks. And really interesting, just listening to all you guys and what you learned from one another. I was thinking back about how much, at least from what I remember, fruit and veg used to taste when I was a kid versus what we get today. And I'm ex Woolworths myself, so don't hold that against me. But, you know, we've trained consumers to literally look for products that have no blemishes. And we've set specifications, right, as an industry that says, if an apple is slightly out and it has a blemish on this and it won't be accepted, that's crazy to me. Because as much as anything, that's the natural condition of produce, it's what it's supposed to look like. That's what it used to taste like. So when you used to bite into a peach, like it used to be incredibly juicy and the world's best thing, we're losing some of that. So I think the region is part of bringing that back in the way we actually grow our food. And so I think for me, it's about how do you then message this? Because I think the digital age presents significant opportunity. Now, don't get me wrong, it's not all good. Like if anybody here has a teenager, then you'll know that the digital age can be a nightmare. There's a lot of disinformation, there's a lot of misinformation. But if you can manage that and manage the risk, there is a really great way of telling a new story that you can create and increase your footprint to those. And I don't necessarily think it's just for the new generations, but if you look at the Gen Z and the Gen Y out there, they are very digitally aware and they are prepared to actually make buying decisions around those companies who meet what they are looking for. And the challenges now is everybody now has a voice. In the old days before the digital age and transformation, it was kind of as a collective. It's no longer a collective. You actually have an opportunity here to provide curated content to an individual about the way you grow your food, your regen practices, right? And we do that, Jane, to your point, using a combination of smart packaging, smart labeling, IOT. So everything we do kind of is underpinned by digital end-to-end traceability. I would like to say that, when we started our journey off, every meeting we had, there'd be someone asking about blockchain. They had no idea what it meant, but it was the buzzword at the time. I'd have to say blockchain in certain circumstances, when you're talking about financial transactions, for instance, is really valuable. But in other circumstances, it's actually incredibly energy intensive, and there's no need for it. It doesn't actually serve a purpose. So for us, we're blockchain-enabled, and you need that in some when you're doing track and trace, for instance, so people can't fordate or backdate when a product has been packed. But that digital traceability is then around food safety. It is around proving provenance. It's around brand protection. And I was thinking about linking that product, you know, for, let's say, going into the EU for deforestation. You can actually use digital traceability with an on-pack to actually prove upstream that the products you are shipping do not come from deforestation. And people can argue whether the EU's gone too far, too quickly. My view and some of that space they have, nevertheless, that's where it is right now. And we need to make sure that Australia remains competitive by meeting these new regulatory requirements. And so I think the digital age is here to support us. You know, if you talk about passion, we're really passionate about how visibility and transparency can actually build loyalty and following. And I think, you know, I've got three kids. I got a 25-year-old daughter and a 22-year-old daughter, and I was chatting to my 25-year-old who said to me, "Oh, well, it wasn't like that in my day, "with my generation dad versus that of my sister." I said, "What are you talking about? "You're the same generation." But that's thinking, really, when you talk about digital transformation, how quickly digital technologies are becoming redundant and moving, it's no longer son, father, grandfather, great-grandfather. In the digital age, this technological revolution is changing every 18 months, every 24 months, every 36 months. So what I'd say to farmers, primary producers out there is, as you start this journey of digital transformation, to actually share the messaging around region, make sure that you understand what you're asking for, go to those who have a level of knowledge and expertise, but can unpack some of the language around this. Keep agile, write in your system so you can continue to upgrade and make sure you keep pace with new technologies as they become available. Don't be fearful of technology, use it the right way. Remember, the data you have is incredibly valuable, but it is your data. And I say that to everybody, don't go sharing your data unless there's value in it for you. Only share one element of your data if it gives you market access. You don't have to share everything. If you want to share for your consumers around provenance, verification, food waste, do that, by all means. But remember, that data, particularly in this day and age, is incredibly valuable, it is yours, and yours to use. Thanks. I don't know whether to be excited or scared, but a great segue and reference to a session that we're doing in August around AI and tech will have to have another chat. Andrew, you are back by popular demand, actually, this year on the panel. And when I heard you earlier, I know why, because you have this really good way of wrapping it or wrapping people's thoughts and everything together. But I am going to hold you to a bit more around the recirculator, because you have them working on projects. Do you have any projects now this 12 months on from last year that you can share that is actually supporting farmers on ground, and it's maybe pushing into this regenerative space as well? I have to remember what I said last year now, and that's challenging because I can't remember what I said last week. But I'm trying to think of some of the new projects that we are working on. Well, maybe I'll start just by giving a little bit of a general context to some of the themes that we're working on. So in the context of the circular economy, we could basically look at the bio-based circular economy and then the other side. And so the other side tends to be the recycling and the inorganic products that we use, but a really big component of the circular economy is around the bio-based side of things, which is obviously critical to agriculture, or there's a really close relationship there. So just trying to think what some of the highlights are there. Probably, well, again, just to say that generally there's lots of... It's amazing how much technology is already out there. And so a real focus for us is trying to help overcome some of those barriers. So the particular focus, I guess, around that bio-based side of the circular economy is to recover nutrients and to recover energy. And I think increasingly also to try to sequester carbon, so that relationship with carbon neutrality and so on as well. So certainly some of the technologies that we're working with are looking at the production of bio-based products. So we've had some really great discussions recently looking at products that are building materials, for example, that are made entirely from bio-based materials. So when I say entirely, I mean, absolutely everything that goes in there is a product that has been grown somewhere with the exception of water. So I guess the challenge for us is trying to work out why these products are not being taken up. They seem fantastic. And I think that it comes down to the need for systems change. So it's really difficult for one product or one technology to get traction into a market when there's so many alternatives out there. So unless it's amazingly cheaper or performed so much better than everything else, even if it comes with green credentials, that's not in and of itself enough. So I think a lot of the projects that we've been working on, I won't get into the technology, but I'd love to talk to anybody about some of the technology if you'd like. But I think actually the key is about the business side of things. And I know we've spoken about this before as well. The technology is great and it works. But you need to create supply chains that are robust and manufacturing processes that are robust as well. So that the end users of this know that it's not going to cost them anymore. Or if it does cost them more, there's a really clear value proposition for them, what they're getting out of it. But I think equally important is quality, quality and regularity of supply. And I think that's a real barrier with a lot of these technologies, trying to get them from that kind of start-up or even initial production period to the point where they can regularly supply this sort of product. And I think a good example of where this can go horribly wrong, that everybody is probably familiar with, even if you don't know the details, is the red cycle debacle. So for a while there, it was great. We could all drop off our soft plastics at the supermarket and it seemed like the soft plastics problem was solved. There was nothing wrong with the technology, it was all about the supply chains and the fact that one part of that supply chain fell over and the rest of the system ground to a halt. So I think that's the real challenge here, is to build that network so that if one part, so there's resilience in the system, so that if one part of the system goes down or doesn't perform exactly as expected, then there's other parts that are out there as well. And so I guess to wrap things up, that's for me the big picture and the real focus of our recirculated project at the moment, is we're definitely still working with individual technology providers and trying to make connections with people who want to use that technology. But I think our focus is much more now about what are the enabling systems that we need to build, and we've got a real focus on the Northern Rivers, because I love the idea that the Northern Rivers could be the example, not the only example, but a really powerful example of what a circular economy looks like in practice at a regional scale. So hopefully that answers the question, I think that's the focus, is more of that kind of systems level thinking. But as I said, love to talk about individual projects and technologies with anyone who's interested. Thanks, Andrew. You've opened up quite a few areas that I'm going to come to Saadion, because as whilst you may not be the expert in everything, regeneration, regenerative agriculture, certainly business, you've gone from the scale up and the start up and the scale up, and you can really tune into what Andrew was saying there, I think, and where some of those challenges are. So it would be great to get a reflection on that from you. But then also, if you don't mind taking us through over the sound of that helicopter, which I owe you a big one, more chocolate for that, I do apologise. But Saadion, what could someone that's coming into the programme expect to pick up over an eight weeks, and how would that maybe set them up for starting and scaling? Sure, well, I mean, my focus with the programme really is to impart the knowledge. I have gained kind of beating up the back bushy trackless side of the business mountain years, and bring in experts who can also speak in much more depth to some of the modules. But really, the aim is just to take start-ups and scale-ups within the northern rivers who feel aligned with the regenerative agriculture across those key areas of agri-waste, agri-food, and agratec, and walk them through a process that hopefully, after eight weeks, they have a lot more of the tools and direction they need to know where they're going and why they're going, how they're going to fund it, what types of assets they're going to need as they grow. And I think, like my experience having come from not a traditional business background is it's a pretty challenging thing to do, especially when you're in a new area, like trying to get with subpot, trying to make composting cool, and like it was a crazy idea getting thousands of people, like Instagram mummers posting their compost bins and all of that. Everyone thought we were mad, but, you know, you could get that stuff happening, and the storytelling comes naturally to me. That's the bit that I'm good at, and the bit that subpot really taught me in a trial by fire and all kinds of other substances was just the understanding, the structuring of the business, and structuring things from the start. So, like, depending on who you are and what your ambitions are, you can really set yourself up for success or failure by who you're tuning into at the beginning. So, like, if you're going after venture capital, that's going to take you in one way, it's going to be in one culture. If you're kind of going bootstrapped and self-funded, that will take you in another path, and you really need to know that stuff when you're starting the journey, or you could burn years kind of going up the wrong hill. So, that's some of what I really want to impart and help people to think deeply about, is what am I in this for? Where do I want to take it? What are the pathways I need to take? And then, I think, for regeneration to happen, there needs to be sustainability, and it's always been a challenge for regenerative and sustainable programs, which are often social-focused, to have that real financial stability and build that in. And it is a key part of a lot of these systems. I mean, permaculture is a pretty well-known design system, which kind of fits under this broad church, and one of the key tendencies that is collect the surplus. So, that's there. We really need to establish strong businesses with strong financial models that are able to really lead, because that's what is the downfall of so many businesses in this space that I see is not being set up in the right way to actually scale and grow and meet the goals that they're going after. So, if we set the right foundations, hopefully we set people up for success. That's right. And hearing Andrew talk about, you know, the challenge really being, you can have the great ideas, you can have even a product, you think, "Wow, this is amazing," but not being able to get it to market. We were talking yesterday about soft plastics. And I don't think at the time we knew, but then you raised it with me later, like, "Oh, yeah, there are people using soft plastics. Can you talk a little bit through that product?" Yeah, so that was just at the circular economy talk yesterday. There was a comment that there's not really anything to do with soft plastics these days now, and I mean, I've had contact over the last 18 months with a company down at Aubrey called Plastic Forest, and they're taking, like, silage, plastic waste, and turning that into fence posts and boards and all kinds of things. And those products are out there, but the problem is how do you take them, then, to market at scale, to the point where the unit economics works, the business can thrive. Everyone I know in Australia and manufacturing struggles, I tried to manufacture subpot in Australia for two years. I could not get it off the ground. And it's a real problem that we have in Australia is supporting innovative people to actually scale up these solutions that are out there, and that's where we need to focus. I think that's with the announcement in the federal budget a couple of days ago around more investment in Australian manufacturing. There's probably a nice, great news to hear. It's all about the devil in the detail and seeing how that works, but it would be great if it's actually coming back to support some of this work, because we're amazing farmers doing everything on farm, but then being able to use this recycled materials for their fence posts back on farm as well. I mean, they're the stories that you get to tell. I'd really love to put the call out if there's any questions from the audience now for our panel before we do some final questions here, because I know that we've got people in the audience that are doing amazing, amazing things. So I'm looking at you, Simon Starr, with the carbon zero projects that you've been driving, tropical fruit world with all of the great work you guys are doing. So whether it's a question for the panel or something that you would be keen to offer into the conversation, I've just thrown you both into the hot seat, but would love to hear you and bring all of the audience into this too. I'll go with you, Ayman, since just right in front of... OK. I probably more got a comment just listening to everyone and the system and the way that things recirculate. We use a lot of Tweechrow Council compost waste, for instance, when that was being sold originally, it was about $20 a ton, and then there's some sales at $10 a ton, where it sort of stacks up. And so it's often, I think, as a grower, that's what it looks like. It's often about when does it stack up so that it works for the business and those inputs work. But we're always trying to do that and be regenerative and our view on sustainability is that you can do it forever. So that... Yeah, excellent. Simon, I'm going to come out and get Chloe just to come over to you there. Pop your hand up for her. Just to kind of feed in with what you're hearing. I know you've given a lot of support to the... Sorry about that, the recirculated project as well. But, I mean, why is it important? You've got sort of farmers, landholders all across the Northern Rivers. Why is it important that we're looking at new ways of doing things or maybe old ways that we're giving a boost? Well, we are a big business in this region, but competitively across the country and then across the world, we're very, very small. So I've always been trying to find that point of difference in our business. And I guess it always comes back to this scale question and how do you scale up? And I've always been one that if your region can be the world champion at something, that could be the scale argument. Because the only other way to scale is obviously by businesses or you're set out. And more and more of the consumer, I agree, don't want that. But they're not prepared to pay for it as well. So I guess on this journey and I think it's wonderful all the effort that's going in, I think as a region, what we've got to find is that what's the differentiator between us and the rest of the world, capital of circular economy, capital region, capital something, carbon net zero, I don't know what it is, but I think you have to work as a community and as a group to find our way. So I'd be interested in some comments from the panel on that. Yeah, well, that's great. I think I will go to each of the panel, whoever's got the microphone and share it along. I guess it could cover two things like what do you guys, if you dig deep in your heart, what change would you like to see or what needs to happen over the next five years? And is Simon onto something here in terms of this region and your reflection just from a global perspective going with you, Jackie? Yeah, well, I wanted to make a comment on the recirculated program, working as a student ambassador over there. Our most popular little feature at the SCU stand has been the little looks like a little bus shelter, but it's a miniature version of what can be a tiny home made out of recycled plastic. Doing food waste runs mostly for our pigs has been an amazing eye opener about the sheer volume of soft plastics that come out of our supermarkets. And since red kite went bust, absolutely disgraceful how much we as a farm we've gone from being almost zero waste to suddenly producing bins full of soft plastic waste. And seeing that tiny home made out of 3D printed recycled plastic, I think the changes that we need to see, the technology is here already, because putting a cost-effective, sustainable house on your farm to be able to rent out in a housing crisis is a no-brainer for a farmer that wants more funds to put into their green projects. So I think the technology is here and the wheel power is here. We're hopefully at that tipping point to see it happen. Great. Andrew, what do you think about what you've just heard of Simon asked there? Yeah. Well, as Simon knows, I love the Northern River's net zero idea and I do think it's a great theme for us to get behind. And I guess coming back to the comments that I was making before about, I think the challenge is that we can't go it alone. And I know this is the approach that you've been taking as Simon is to try to galvanise a community around it. So I think, again, we need to take a systematic approach. We need to, together, come up with some sort of vision for what it is about the Northern Rivers and the way that we do things here that's going to help us stand out from everywhere else. And I think once we've made that decision, we just kind of need to go for it. And it's going to involve commitment from everyone. So I actually think that's the key because, yeah, as I was alluding to before, I think it's really difficult for one person to move alone. The system sort of sucks you back in again. Whereas if we're all just taking small steps together in a particular direction, then I think that allows us to all start to share the benefits of that, which in turn builds our confidence that we're moving in the right direction. And from a purely financial point of view, it just spreads the risk and also shares the returns from that. So I just think it's a, you know, a lower risk way of doing it, but it does require a lot of cooperation. I think, you know, that's something that we can do well together. So I think that's the key is, you know, to sit down together and work out what it is that we want to do and then commit to doing that. Yeah, great. And Ollie, you mentioned your Rivers project earlier. I'm thinking there's a bit of synergy kind of here, there, in terms of the river life and our future as well. Yeah, I was just reflecting on that. Yeah, I think it's about us telling our stories, the stories of this place, and not just the old stories, the ones I want to hear about, but all the new stories too. You know, to me, it's about kinship and the connectivity that we need to have with each other as communities and as custodians, you know, like for me, First Nations custodianship is a really critical part of what needs to be understood. Everybody here, ancestors, go back to being First Nations custodians. Where have you come from in the world? Your old people came from country somewhere and they learn a story of how they learned the language of the land and they shared that language with each other and they built economies based on that relationship to country. And so that's what I think our story is. We have these stories in the landscape already, and so being able to share those stories, which is what we've been doing for connecting Jargorn, our fire project, which helped us get our team off the ground, healing the rivers. Same idea, we just get people to care for country and we get people to come together and we yarn and we find the relationships that we have and we build on those relationships and just to go back on one of the things about the business model story, you know, for us. Yeah, like that resource economy like right now, when the mullet run, the gurumi, and when the mullet run, that's an economy. And people don't have to understand that economy because that's the way that we need to be heading back to. When the mullet run, people will go down together and feed in the surplus of the mullet. They let the leaders go through, they let the young ones, they let, you know, the future generations go through and then we share in the surplus. And the people that live by the sea, the ones that catch the fish or the ones that are there most of the time, they don't own the mullet, they don't own the sea, they don't own the land, they're the ones the custodians there look after it. Everybody else that comes there, they've been looking after the river too, all along the ridge, the Nalangali, the Songaline, we'd be burning the right way, well, for the rivers, listening to Darangan, Balang, like we were listening to all the stories and we all would be doing the right thing and then we all get to share in that. And so when we think about the regenerative agriculture as a business model, we need to change the way we think about the way we're doing business and the way we're doing things now, because we need to be giving back more of the surplus that we generate from the work that we're doing back to country, back to community. It's not about us all getting rich, it's about us all getting rich together and bringing us forward together and being healthy. So to me, like healing, like, getting to our goal is about healing from fire, understanding fire as a lightning is our fire law, ancestors, it teaches us that law, it can be bad for us if we don't follow the law. It is bad for us when we don't fall. Same with gathering water and water into water stories, like we need to understand that they are regenerative processes in our bodies and our minds and if we can bring that knowledge into the landscape, we can tell stories that make us special because they're our stories, they're our language and all over the world. Other people have their own stories, their own language that makes them special. That's the story that we need to give and we need to think about that language. Like, so I'm like, net zero? Like, I know what it means and I understand the branding around it, but I don't think it's telling the story. I think it's like net zero. Zero seems like, I don't want to be thinking about net and zeros. I'll be thinking about regeneration and custodianship and not just carbon. Carbon is the stuff that's like sticking the stuff together, once living and living things. So when we talk about fire on the ground, we don't say, oh, fuel, we'd be like leaf and grass and gum tree, we're talking about what are those things. And so we need to be building that language together about what are the values that we share and how do we share those values in a way that helps us to be able to share more with others so that then we benefit from that. And that's why old people can go a long way, up Boney Boney when the Boney nuts are dropping and long way down, we'd be able to go a long way because we have a lot of connection there and we can tell a lot of story. And that story comes back and so the more people go out and learn and come back, the more kinship you get and the more people get to be gathering around and we get more support and then more things grow from that and then we are where we are. Well, okay, we're definitely getting Ollie on the brand committee and around the table, aren't we Simon? Fantastic, Ollie. Thank you so much for sharing that. Like we can really feel it in our hearts, what you're saying. And the language thing is so true. Like when we're in industry, we just like know our jargon but if we really want people, you know, getting it and understanding it, we need to think about it a little differently for sure. You want to say like, I get really passionate because I'm telling the country and the country is really sick and the alternative is that I just go and sit at home all day and lie up in a ball like I did when I was young and I don't want to go outside. I don't want to be a part of what I see around me. So I've learned to like let the country like bring the spirit and the energy for the change because people don't, I don't think really understand how hard things are going to get as you know, like until we have to be really building, you know, like I say, I go off the extreme events, chapter, state, and environment board. I sit on the natural houses board, aren't we? No, our climate change is impacting us now. We know that. Do we know about what we are about to experience? I got a little, I got a few ideas. I knew the fires were coming. I knew the floods were coming and I was telling people about it for years and I'm not going to go on a big rant and I've got all these prophecies. But the reality is that it's just obvious. I was standing up on a hill up at up at the Tonnable Creek and we're talking about fire and I look up the hill and I said, but we don't need to worry about fire now because flood becoming and next week big flood came and like I was just mucking around and then I was like, I'll be careful, be careful what you say, be careful what you do. And yeah, we have to bring our best self and we have to sort of channel that going forward. And yeah, I'm peppy. I know you're reflecting quite a lot here on what Simon has said and Ollie. Just to sort of, we're going to come along the group and just finish off, give us your thoughts and reflections. Yeah, I'll keep it short, but Ollie's hit it on the head for me also. But we're in, we're living in the best area in Australia. Please accept that. And we're leading the way, trust me, because that's why international bodies, like I'm a part of, are calling upon people of area, because we are ahead. And we're looking for answers now as we move forward because we are leading the way. But it's, yeah, it's a hard one to answer. But look, just, we've got damaged fix. So it's not going to be a case if we're going to bank on this. Anyone financially, well, in my opinion, because I just real quick, okay, we're real quick, promise. There's an incentive from Vanuatu to send farmers to our region. I've set it up with the Byron Farmers Committee to swap farmers for two weeks. Our farmers go there, but just two weeks, because otherwise they're heading out west for six months, making big bucks, going back to Vanuatu, bulldozing the bush, and setting up these farms and doing the damage. So these little things are being talked about very seriously over there, because there has to be a cap on how big these farms get, because their mental health suffers their everything. They're not meant for this, but that is enough with that cap. On the size of that farm, how much they produce and their footprint as to there could be 20 of them around that community. Everyone's got a job. Everyone's sending their kids to school. Everyone's clothed. Everyone's fed. Everyone's healthy. And I think that's their goal at the moment before capitalizing on it or, you know, I don't want to go there, but this is a really hard question. So I'm going to go to Jackie then. No. Well, could I just say, Jackie, you talked about money and time earlier. So, you know, with your time, and you're still so young, and you hear, you know, what Simon's saying and about this region. Like, where is it important that your time is invested and what you get out of it? Well, the interesting thing is, I was talking before at the table about how, as farmers, we're often really good at growing greens or running our livestock, and we invest all this time and energy into learning about our soil health, because that's what we really care about. And it's only been over the last few years that it's really sunk in for me that I've missed this whole big area that I now need to invest my time in in the things that we're now talking about with Sarti about telling your story and getting it out there and connecting and telling the story of where your food comes from. And so you can connect with those customers learning about business modeling. If you haven't got the right business model from the start, nothing else you do is going to be effective no matter how much you love regenerative agriculture, whereas good business model, good connections with customers, being able to tell your story well, I've really realized that they're just as important as how you treat your soil and how you run your animals and how you grow your crops. Thanks, Jackie. And John, with the functional foods, let's just stick with that tagline for the moment, that future piece and how that could actually, how important is this region to that work? Yeah, look, if you look at, I guess, Australia's main competitors in export markets for the finished products, it's Canada because they've got equal regulations and it's New Zealand because it's equally clean and green. So that clean, green, sustainable and trusted is what gives Australia a natural advantage in that. And that's the same advantage you see in the raw materials, too, in agricultural products. It's people overseas like Australian products because they're clean, green, sustainable and trusted. And I think, if you look at the Northern Rivers within Australia, that we have the clean, green, sustainable region ag and perhaps some more work around that could work on the trusted in terms of that trusted brand. But in terms of Simon's point, one of the things I always find with the partners we work with in the hub is there's no big, huge companies ever going to move to the Northern Rivers. You're not going to get a billion-dollar company relocating. You can get a lot of companies starting. But one of the things we've always found is there's a lot of support for businesses starting up and entrepreneurs developing a small business, a lot of support for keeping them small and a lot of support for big businesses to make themselves bigger. And there's not really a lot of support to make a small business turn into a medium business into a big business. So we always talk about that missing middle and I think that's probably one of the realistically that missing middle is the right size, it's the right fit for the Northern Rivers and it's sort of we're full of entrepreneurs already doing amazing things but we're full of farmers evaluating their products within amazing ways but we don't. There's no really for them to go to for that kind of stuff. So there's obviously stuff that we're trying to do but I think we can make the Northern Rivers the place to do that and actually advocate for government to really use this as a tool for growing a regional economy. It's been pretty good hearing all of this. It hasn't started. It just keeps fuelling up the work that you're going to do. Yeah, it's great. Great insights from the panel. I just totally agree with what you say about that missing middle and my reflection of being someone who's been knocking on doors fundraising for quite some time for businesses is we just don't have an investment ecosystem which is set up to support that middle like if you'd go and talk to family officers, VCs, impact funds. They see a three to fifteen million dollar business is a hassle for them. It's not what they want but those are the businesses that are the cornerstone of a community like ours and that's the kind of business that's really going to grow a connected thriving community here. And for me, if I was to think about the message net zero for me, that's a great goal but it also, like with my marketing, like people connect to natural systems and they love biodiversity. One of the things that draws people to this area, the things like Nightcap National Park, which my family and many families were involved in fighting for back in the day. And there was a lot of tension between agriculture and then you settle over those early years. But now I've got mates down at the Shannon pub who were the same age. They grew up at Dairy Farmers Kids. I was a hippie kid. We have a beer together. We do land care together. We're more aligned than we are different. And I think one of the, like if we could be really pushing the biodiversity, the natural wonder that we have here and some of the brand of innovation like Astoria I like to tell because not many people know it, is that we're actually the home of the internet in Australia here. So the first ISP that you could sign up for as a consumer was launched out of the back of a solar powered camper van at protesters falls. So outfit called Pegasus internet. They use the first application of mobile data in Australia in a commercial context to bounce the signal from there to Byron and then up to servers in America for what was called Econet. Because it was launched by a bunch of hippies who really wanted to connect between all of the environmental movements across Australia, the US and Asia at the time. And so that was my first experience of the internet early 80s sitting up in a commune as a kid. And we've forgotten that. And we've forgotten that that was what the internet started here for was to really connect up everyone working towards a biodiverse, clean, sustainable future. And that was why we started it here. And that ISP Pegasus was the biggest one until telecom, then Telstra entered the market. So we've got amazing people with skills. One of the original guys still lives down at my home. He used to have all of Russia's internet running through a computer on his desktop. Like there's some amazing people we have here for technology, innovation, ecology, farming, you name it. And I think it's just ripe for an ecosystem approach we need, as everyone has said, an ecosystem of businesses supporting each other. And probably what I didn't realise today going into this was just how much your conversations would help define sort of brand story for the Northern Rivers. And one of the other hats Simon wears is the chair of brand Northern Rivers. And we've been working on this business case and strategy and what we've identified through global best practice is it's so important to have a place narrative. And we've filmed you all. So you're actually going to form part of the draft of some place narrative and everything that you've shared today. Greg, you're an outsider. We're not holding that against you, of course, but you're a great test case because you're hearing a bit about us, the people of the Northern Rivers and what we're standing for and sort of our dreams as well. I'd love to hear your reflection on that from just the human spirit side and business and industry. Well, I can say there's much more mud and tractors here than there is in North Sydney. So that's been interesting. I think we'd separate it between two things. I mean, what an amazing region this is. And so we'd kind of separate a little bit what we do into two streams. One is the very transactional functional piece, which is around the regulatory elements or compliance. And that's an easier one to message because it might be that if you want ongoing market access, then you need to prove this credential. So anyone who wants that, that's not a hard one to argue. People go, yep, I get the value proposition on that one. That makes sense. I think the harder one for us is really then the storytelling, which is around the heart connection. And our experience that we've found is people are wanting to know, particularly they're looking for more intimate connection. So what we find in the feedback we get is they're very keen on understanding generational stories. So where you have third, fourth, sixth generations of those learnings of where that's gone and come to, that has a much deeper connection than anything else. So, I think in that, I think there's always opportunities. I think the connection piece, it's available now to share that. And what we would just simply say is if you're already going to the effort as a region around region farming practices, don't keep it to yourself. Use storytelling that the rest of this team has mentioned around first nations, around generational stories, because people what we're seeing, they want to understand more than just the product. They want to understand the people, the process, the history. And I don't pretend that everybody's scanning. I'm not saying that. Certainly it's much more held in Asia. But I got to tell you, if COVID did one thing, the one thing it did do is we all know what a QR code is right now. So people are starting to head down that way. And what I've talked to you is about who is the next generation of people who have money to spend? Is it me or is it my daughter? What am I looking for in terms of my buying decision versus what she looking for? For her, I know it's things like the modern slavery. You know, people being paid a fair wage. What about the use of plastics on farm, water use? Now, I don't want to overplay my hand. It says everybody's looking at that before they make a decision. No, they're not. But there is certainly an emergence that everybody now has a voice. And I think that's one of the major shifts that we're not talking to just a collective now. You can't treat them like they're just one entity. Doesn't work like that. They are prepared to walk away and look for those who meet, you know, what's in their heart, what's important to them, particularly future generations. You talk about fires and floods. We see what's happening. And so I think it's not like we're having to convince people. People are kind of getting that. They're seeing it in real time. And so here's the opportunity to say, what are we doing as a community? And if we are doing the right thing, will you support us? We'll be transparent. We'll be open. And as a result of that, we are seeing some really interesting things take place. Thanks so much for that reflection, Greg. You're spot on. We do need to tell our stories. Fabulous people of the Northern Rivers. Could you all please give our panel a hand? And a thank you. (upbeat music)