Needlessly Nostalgic
Army Of Darkness
Lance and Tyler get into the more humorous side of the franchise with Army of Darkness.
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- Duration:
- 1h 27m
- Broadcast on:
- 24 Jan 2025
- Audio Format:
- other
(upbeat music) - Hello friends and welcome back to another needlessly nostalgic. I am one of your host Tyler Nichols with my other host Lance Vellechek. Lance, are you ready to talk army of darkness? - I've been waiting the whole time, dude. This has been, we want to be looking forward to. This is my magnum opus, the light the end of the road. If no, I love all of them, but yes, dude. Especially after we did our commentary, which I hope people have heard, if not, please check it out, but this is the episode that me and Tyler are gonna be gushing over hopefully. - Yeah, for those that are curious two days ago on our Patreon, a army of darkness commentary episode released with our regular special guest, Andrew Hatfield, where we watched the theatrical cut of army of darkness. Today, we're gonna touch on the theatrical cut. We'll touch on all the cuts to some degree, but we did technically watch the director's cut for this viewing, and Lance and I also both watched it with commentary. So we should have some interesting little tidbits for you guys, and yeah, even though there's gonna be a ton of people that did not listen to our commentary episode, and we did go over, we did go over it a bit in our first "Evil Dead" episode, but just kind of briefly go over your relationship with specifically army of darkness. - I saw this in theaters in 1993. I must spend seven or eight years old, and I'm not really sure of the age. I remember being alone in theater with my friend's dad, because it was for my friend's birthday. I changed my life, and then I went on thinking this was a single movie for probably until grade school junior high, and then I learned about "Evil Dead 2" and "Evil Dead 1." So I've seen the series backwards, and around the time "A Chins Could Kill," I wanted to re-watch this movie in theaters, and they were playing it into "Calb Illinois." Now, if anybody is from the Illinois area, you know that the Calb is a college town, but it's also a fucking piece of shit town, and I did not have a car or a driver's license, 'cause I think I didn't start driving until '17, 'cause I don't wear the car. So I convinced my buddy Brad to drive me two hours to like Southern Illinois, just a shit hole, to watch "Armee Darkness" with Bruce Campbell, get the book signed, and it cemented this as my favorite movie, you know, "Top 5" for sure, and my favorite "Evil Dead." I will always love this man, and I'm excited to talk these cuts with you, because I had white, nostalgic time with the commentary, it seems everything, 'cause this DVD came out 2000, and I believe might've been my first commentary ever heard. - Yeah, I mean "Evil Dead" and "Evil Dead 2" were amongst my first, so I'm right there with ya. But this was actually my first time experiencing the director's cut, and we are going to have a little bit of a, I don't know, back and forth here, because I did not like the director's cut. I need to, oh, I should've also prefaced it with I love the theatrical cut so, so much. It is my favorite of the "Evil Dead" franchise, and one of the things that I really love about it is its pacing and energy, and the director's cut completely gets rid of the pacing that I love, and it just sterilizes the film in a way that I really wasn't expecting. It was genuinely, it was like watching a different version of the movie. It felt like a more serious version, less funny, less comedic, more just, I don't know, less bombastic version, which was very, I don't know, it was very strange experience for me, 'cause it's not like I hated it or anything, but it was very much of like a, this is not the experience that I know and love. - It's funny, I actually had the opposite effect outside of everything specifically. I probably didn't watch this, I mean, maybe, so I've came out in 2000, let's say the last time I saw this with 2004, I'm just gonna guess, it's how long? Because my go-to is always been the OG cut, because, and I think we do agree in this part, that the aspart ending is so much better, and I understand why, first cable, Sam Raimi, Rod Taper, Ivan Raimi, I understand why they like the original, but they also view actions from like than I do, 'cause of that ending, I have just avoided this, 'cause it's like, well, it's not the ending, the ending is so fucking cool, it's like, well, I fear parts. And then watching this outside of three things I would change, I like this cut better. I, what, I found it more heartwarming, I felt the character of Ash was explored more, there's just these little moments that I felt lingered more, and it's true though, the pacing is completely different. It is almost a different movie, but I kind of liked hanging out a little bit more with these characters and these vibes. Real quick, there's a moment, and this is gonna tie into like, why I prefer it. When Arthur tells Ash, he's like, hey, and it's a whole scene completely cut. And then Ash moments later, cowardly runs into a bar, and then comes out with the old smokey. And it's like, that scene is very different in the theatrical cut, but like, I just felt, oh, I like the acknowledgement of Ash being a coward and being better, and then hinting that he's gonna be a little bitch and being heroic. It's funny because after listening to the commentary with Sam Raimi, I mentioned in the theatrical cut that we watched together with Andrew, I remember Raimi like not liking Ash, and it's, half the commentary is him hating, essentially the theatrical cut and the director's cut about making Ash a hero, and he is way more heroic in the director's cut. Yeah, I liked it, man, I liked it a lot more. I kind of wanna create my own edit now after watching both these versions. - Yeah, I put back in some of the stuff that like, what's the, oh, I mean, we'll get into it. So, Army of Darkness, this is from 1993, not 1992, like IMDB says, gotta be careful with those IMDB dates. This is Direct by Sam Raimi, written by Sam Raimi and Ivan Raimi, and it is starring Bruce Campbell, M. Beth David's, Ian Ambercrombie, Patricia Tallman, Ted Raimi, and Bill Mosley as dead-eyed captain. - And you get more dialogue from Bill Mosley in this, yes, yes, he does have more of an appearance, and yeah, there's a lot of stuff towards the end, but yeah, let's, do I move? We put those, I would assume you're not joining us for the first time during Army of Darkness, but you never know, maybe you're not in a horror, and this is your comedic, I don't know, the one comedic one that you want to check out. Over our franchise chats, we moved through the film from beginning to end, that way we can touch on all the different subtle differences between entries, so, but obviously with this film, since we're comparing the director's coat with the theatrical, there will be this random things that we noticed, because the whole intro feels very different from the intro and the director's cotton intro and the theatrical cut just has a different vibe to it and in every way. - There is a deleted scene that is a different intro, and it's essentially a horror intro, where they recap all of the second movie a little more thorough with some of the new footage added in, and it's such an odd pacing that's now watching the director's cut, it just seems like a slightly longer way to get to the point, but I will concede that I think pacing-wise, I really prefer the theatrical, it kind of just gets a little more into it. - Well, we should mention too that there are 117 differences between the R-rated theatrical cut and the director's cut that makes up 15 minutes and 19 seconds, which is pretty fucking insane. That there is such a massive difference between the two films, because usually with director's cuts, like an unrated version, anything like that, we're getting two to three minutes, but these are- - Well, 80 minutes is crazy, if you think about it. So basically the director's cut is an hour and a half, which is so normal, like we don't get 80 minute movies. - You do, and it's Dino De Laurentis. Now, it's so funny, 'cause it's like before knowing about just having watched the film for the first time as a kid, 'cause this was just like you, this was my first film in the franchise, and to hear, even in the commentary, like Sam and Bruce mentioned Dino, or like the demands of Dino, and it's so funny, 'cause Dino is just this stereotypical, he's Italian, I believe, and he just like, he also worked with like Conan, like worked on the Conan the Barbarian with Schwartz and Egger, so like Schwartz and Egger has crazy stories with him as well, and he's just the ultimate 80s excess man. Like he wants girls with big boobs in leather, and like there's a reason that the Dino De Laurentis, the poster that he commissioned was features. Yeah, Schwartz and Egger style ash, which, but also as much as like he can like bash the guy, I think Dino is what, like a lot of his decision making is what I think I really like about the theatrical cut, and I think that he makes the film what I like so much about it, just based on the commentary, 'cause like they'll, Sam may mention something of like, "Oh yeah, Dino made us do this," or I'm like, "Oh, I'm glad Dino did," 'cause I really like that. It's a very specific vibe that the guy gives the movie, and I will agree with you that the theatrical cut will always be my go-to, only because it's what I know, but there is a certain electricity that doesn't exist in any movie, and it's because this is so fucking, it's tighter than a snare drum, and Dino's absolutely like the proponent of that. If you ever get a chance to read Charles Bann's book, he bought Dino's studio in Italy, and just the Dino stories in that, it's like that guy was a mad man. Thinking that like, I mean they were very positive in the commentary, Raimi and Bruce about Dino, 'cause even Sam self says, "Dino made us cuddle this stuff," though I can't say I had no say, like I being Sam basically gave him the template for the scenes that if they're gonna be cut, these are the ones, so Sam is complicit as well, and it's at least not common, but complimentary that he's not gonna just throw this guy in the boss, but he fucking movies like, "Well, I wish I could have kept this and this in, but they were cut," and I was given a chance to sort of like, bring in what I think could be removed, and so it is kinda, he is complicit in the cut himself. - Yeah, I liked that Raimi was very straight, like very upfront about the fact that, it's like, yes, Dino requested cuts, he wanted it to be faster pace, but I was able to, like I decided what was cut, it wasn't oh, he was constantly saying, "Oh, this needs to be cut, this needs to be cut," it was a collaborative process, which I think shows what a good producer he was, 'cause he wasn't just, it wasn't just the Weinstein way of doing things, so. - Honestly, the only scene that really got truly screwed is the windmill scene. Outside of that, it's more establishing shots, some character moments that I really liked, but I also get why you could remove 'em and it wouldn't really hurt. I mean, I think this being, as Sam Raimi specifically said, in the commentary and the deleted scenes and the interviews, this is not a horror movie, as much as it's a fun adventure, directly influenced by the Three Stooges, that's what this movie is. This is Jason the Agrinats via Three Stooges in the world of evil dead. And so I think that as much as Arthur, Talking Ash, that I really love, or even the Sheila sex scene that's a little more extended, I like that stuff, that being said, I also can completely be okay with being removed because this is a jokey movie. - Well, even 'cause technically the introduction scene is the same as in theatrical versus directors. It's just the look, it's so different, and there'll be like, there's a shot of the knights walking towards the castle. Like that, yeah, and it's a very, but it's very worn down look. Like it doesn't, essentially, I guess the thing that I've noticed with the film that I just didn't jive with was for the director's cut was that things just didn't look how I expect them to look. Even regular shots. - Now, you do know though, they in the camera they admitted that some of these shots are gonna look a little off because essentially it hasn't been polished. It doesn't match a theatrical because it's essentially adding the raw footage with a little bit of fucking prep to it. But I see the examples, that's a scene that I wish they left in because it gives the scope of the castle, it gives a little more, I don't know, those are like, there's a lot more of those scenes, like just wide shots of them walking in and out that I liked. You could argue that pacing kills it and I guess, but I don't know, this is not a slow movie. It's still fast as fuck, man, I feel like 90 minutes, come on. - But we've talked about how color temperature, I mean, you've always mentioned two with like four Ks and like, oh, I don't want the color temperature 'cause then it can change the vibe of the scene. - But I think that is the issue that I have is that then there's scenes in the director's cut that don't look how they're supposed to look. The color temperature is wrong. Like I'm literally looking at the, I'm looking at the windmill. - It's not that they fucked it up, but just like the deleted scene they're in. But they did, but no, no, you're mishearing what I'm saying. I'm saying regular shots that are in "Army of Darkness" that are in the theatrical cut that are in the director's cut are not color time the same. So there's a different vibe to the whole thing. Like I'm looking at comparisons right now and it's like, yeah, the color timing is different. So then it gives a different, it's the same reason. Like we've talked in the past like Halloween. I'm like the color timing and Halloween bugs, the fuck out of me, 'cause it's not the version that I know. And the color timing of the director's cut is not the version that I know because it's prior clearly when they then did a remaster for the one of the DVDs or one of the Blu-rays for that theatrical cut. Clearly, clearly that coloring, what they did, what the remaster wasn't done for the director's cut. And so everything looks different. So then all these class, I don't, then, I noticed it very much in the opening, which is why I mentioned of like the opening feeling different where just the color timing is different. It doesn't, like things don't look the same. So then I'm not, I don't have the same feeling where I'm like washed over with like, oh, yes, this moment. Oh, that moment, like, I'm not then, I'm not then taken in by it as much. - I'm not as bothered, man. I gotta be honest, like I don't think it's that different. I think, yeah, some of the extra shots, they're definitely off. But like what, I guess I'm curious, 'cause like, is it just a different level of warmness you're seeing? 'Cause it seems a little, like maybe not as vibrant, but I just think that's just 'cause it's not, they didn't remaster the director's cut. - Yeah, the, there is a blue, there's a blueness to the director's cut that I do not like, I am trying to... - Fair enough, fair enough. I thought we were talking more about the added in the scenes that always look a little off, but I don't know. - No, no, that was the whole thing. Oh my God, it's not the added in, 'cause I get that, 'cause I love the, and we'll talk about it in February, the My Bloody Valentine, there is an unrated version that then like for the kills it extends. - It's not different enough that it bothers me, so I can't really argue or, you know, this is one of those arguments that I gotta just give it to you, like fair enough, if there's a little more blue to you, it doesn't bother me as much. I mean, you know, when I talk college temperature, let's just be very clear, it's like rocky going from like warm to like fucking blue. Yeah, that's not enough for me, man. - Yeah. - That's close. - That's close. - That's close. - It bugs me. - But no, it's super blue, but like this same, we've had this argument about other things. You're just... - I don't see enough. I don't see enough. - It's an army of darkness. - Okay, so I'm looking at this picture. I'm looking at this picture, which... - I'll post this photo on the Instagram. - To me, it just looks more HD on the left than it does the right. I mean, it's more shadowed on the left, for sure, the shadows are harsher. - No, it's blue. You can, I can... - Barely, barely, man. - It's like, well, any of our listeners can look at C, because I'm seeing a big difference on my screen. - No, dude, I don't see it. Maybe it's my monitor here, but regardless, that doesn't bother me. It's not so different in changing the mood. - At least for me. - It changes the mood for me, which then, and then also the, like I mentioned earlier, the pacing and the energy of it, just doesn't, doesn't match. Though I will say that the director's cut does absolutely, it feels like more of a continuation of evil dead, evil dead too. It absolutely feels like the third entry, which I think that the theatrical cut, it absolutely, it's like, wait, what? This doesn't feel like it's part of the same world. - There is more horror, oddly enough. Though it's funny, 'cause I actually wrote my notes that I like that the horror's brought back. Like for instance, when he shoots the evil ash and the line is worse in this, it's, and even in the commentary, Sam Remi says, oh, I like the alternate version, which is good, bad, I'm got the gun. - Much better. - But then when he brings me to the windmill, and in the theater cut, it's really quick, but in this, there's a lot more point of the chains, a lot more theatrics in terms of the windmill shadows, and it's a horror scene. Ash flips on the chains, sort of rumbles, and it just, it's like, oh fuck, there's more evil dead. Even the chase to the windmill is far more evil dead than theatrical. So there are more moments of horror, which actually stands out, 'cause being that the movie is far more comedic, it's so weird to actually sing these horror elements more present, but it definitely leans a lot, a lot more at least in terms of evil dead too than the theatrical cut, which I think was very interesting. I don't remember that at all. But I like the idea that they're trying a little more at the bridge that connect between the horror comedy and essentially the adventure film. - I love in the commentary that they mentioned that Bruce is like, yeah, Sam randomly mentioned, he says, hey, I mean, just singing. Oh, so he's Anna while you're doing this, and he's like, what the fuck? Why would I do that? And then it works, and it's great, and it's like this fun little moment, and it's literally just something Sam Raimi is just like, yeah, do this, this would be fun. But then it ends up being so iconic and incredible, but. All right, let's talk about the, 'cause obviously the whole intro is them is, 'cause everything gets picked up from a prior film. We've seen all of, we've seen these films recreated. This was the most truncated version where it's all done, and what, about 60 seconds? - And they say that it wasn't about actual rights this time, it was about pacing and that the pacing didn't, or the second didn't fit what they needed, so that's why they reshot, which isn't more interesting, 'cause it's like, oh, at this point, they're just choosing to do new footage. - Yeah, which is fun, and then they also, I guess Bridget Fonda had reached out, 'cause she was the fan of the first two evil dads, and it's like, he used me for anything, and Raimi, of course, took advantage of that, and used her for this little opening, which I don't know, I like the gimmick of a different girl that he's with each time. (laughs) - Right, different lentils? - Yeah, different lentils. - But then they cut back to the evil dad, too, Linda. Don't they for a second, or am I making, oh, that might be the new scenes. - That might be deleted, yeah. - Yeah, which makes sense, 'cause why would you keep that, 'cause it doesn't fit, but-- - Well, I guess they do, I think they do show, don't they recreate, I feel, I know what the thing you're talking about, so maybe I have seen the deleted scenes. - I guess my issue is I probably shouldn't have watched those, because they're not in the movie, but they add-- - But they're all together. - Well, 'cause they add a lot of context, where I'm like, oh, it's really interesting to see some of, like the Woodmill part, I really think is something that should've been added in the director's gut. The intro, though, I'm gonna send you only because you should see, 'cause it's something that does not work, but it's funny seeing them essentially start a horror intro recap, as opposed to him being fucking direct, the desert, and he's thinking about his past life, and I like, I would, you know, I-- - I mean, a lot of this is very much a different vibe, which again, too, I think the one thing that I guess I didn't even realize until watching the director's cut is that the theatrical cut is very saturated. It's a very colorful movie, even from the, all the stuff with, what's it, Eric the Red, his with his red, and like the whole, just the color palette there, it's all very, very, very colorful, which again, I think is where, then, I'm like watching the scene, and it like, like, oh, it doesn't, in the director's cover, it's like, ah, it doesn't pop like I want it to. So again, it's like, I like things, but it just felt more dull than what I was used to. - So that's a good point. I don't think the director's cut was dull because they didn't like the colors. I just assume it was one of those, like they didn't really do a lot of work. They added it back into, like, by the negative and called it a day. - Yeah. - But you are right, 'cause I have the theatrical running now, and there's a warmness that is just better, and that's fair, it's, that's, I mean, this is the version I've watched the most. - So the, I love that, essentially, what she called the old hag, is that the, the witch in the weird cave, cave well that they have. - Is that her name, the one that pops out with the hand? - Yeah. - Or is that about the gymnast? - I'm talking about the actual, the hag that's in the, that's in the hole, that then spits up the torrent of blood. - Yeah, the, the gymnast, the one that does like the flips and kicks from the crotch. - Does she? - Well, there's the one, the first one kicks the crotch, and there's one that comes out of the wall. I can't tell if the wall one is a girl or not, but yeah, the, the one that does a flips, like, (imitates popping) - Yeah, I guess she always just like conflate all of that. It's just like slap sticky, never even thought, but yeah, she is the one that gets her hand cut off, and then pops up shortly after not the old hag that tricks them up. She might be, yeah, that, the one that trips them up is possessed witch. - Oh, you're talking about the monster? - Yeah, the monster. - Yeah, they did a great job with that. And like the, I just have always liked that concept of, they go, there's a bunch of, a bunch of hostages or in line to get killed. Yeah, put them through the meat grinder. - Ooh, they have, I like that they have just a pit of monsters. That to me reminds me of this Canadian film called The Pit where this little boy feed people he didn't like to the monsters in the pit. And it's like, so I, I'm very pro, hole in the ground with monsters. And I love the idea that, that army of darkness has a big set piece with monsters in a pit. And like you said, that the first time the Henry, the red guy goes in, we get, I don't know, fucking a geyser. - Yeah, so much blood, so much. One like, it's amazing too that it's so, it's such a strange setup in that like, once you actually think of the fact that this weird, this weird contraption that it has in the whole, that squeezes them, but it's like, well, you can easily go to either side of it. So what's really the point of, the point of this thing, but it's all just fun movie stuff. But then you also think of it and you're like, how much is the fact that this looks so good, that they just like, took chain mail from like, the Zena set or the Hercules set and used it for this. - Oh wait, this is 92, was that around? - I just assumed it was, was this prior? I had just always, oh, a 95. - I was gonna say, 'cause my dad used to watch Hercules and see it all the time. I just wasn't sure if it was before me or not. - Yeah, 95 for both of them. So I guess it wouldn't have been. I just always assumed, 'cause there's that like, connecting that like, they look, they have like that similar period look. - They might have used these for Zena. - Yeah. - There might be that, that sort of an action. - Yeah, and like Henry the Red is a real fun, is a real fun character where it's like, he doesn't, he doesn't have a whole lot of dialogue, but he still has so much personality and like, he still stands out. - Thank you generous host, it is fucking great, it's great. I feel like he's also in something else. - Him and Arthur lend a lot of credence to like the medieval aspect. Like, I believe them to be of this era and the woman who plays Sheila actually. - Yeah. - I think they even admitted the commentary. Like, they really got a lot of good side actors to make this believable because everybody feels of the era and I don't know anything of the era, but I believe it. I believe Arthur is of this time. Henry the Red feels like it. So does Sheila, so does Mr. Pitts. I don't know, it's real name and movie or another. - And it's hilarious too, 'cause I think we brought this up in the commentary. It's like the Sheila, like Sheila's from Lafayette, Indiana. It's like her accent. - She's from Lafayette? - Yeah, her accent is like, 'cause we're like, oh, her accent seems very like put on. It's like, oh yeah, 'cause she's American. That's why it doesn't sound supernatural. I want Americans to do British accents. That's how it should be. And in the commentary, do you remember them saying specifically like, oh, we really liked her, but she'll never work with us again, 'cause she immediately went on to do Schindler's list and did real movies. - Mm-hmm, yep. - And she doesn't do conventions, and I've never at least, I didn't dig too deep, but there's something casual that she's ever said about Army Dartmouth now. - No, she seems to be not into it. There was some interview from like 2012 where she talked about something about it, 'cause I remember looking it up, 'cause it's just curious to see if she had ever spoken on the film. But yeah, she's, I mean, she's still working to this day, so good on her. - You said she was in "Old" right with the show. - Yup, she was the spoiler alert. She was the older version of "The Daughter" played by Thomas and Mackenzie. And yeah, I mean, so she's still, I mean, she's doing stuff, like she was on Ray Donovan. It's like, good on her for keeping things going because she's good in this. Like she's, her and Campbell have good chemistry. It doesn't feel creepy when it very easily could have. It's like the situation is very, situations kind of creepy in terms of how it's set up, 'cause like Ash immediately like saves the day, and then he's like, he's got these women like fawning over him, bringing him fruit and shit. And like, so everything about it, it could come across as like, ooh, this seems like he's taking advantage of this girl. But at work, there's something about, there's like a back and forth to it, 'cause like she challenges him a bit, so it doesn't feel like she's being taken advantage of. - She's, they don't play her like a dumb girl or damps in the stress. She seems very confident. She's like, hey, I messed up. You didn't kill my brother, you know, and you're the savior. And this version, there's actually a lot more scenes with them sort of like, you know, the sex scene and I think there's something later on, I believe, when he comes back, when she talks to him about like, that she believes in him, that you know, he's like, well, that's pillow talk, there's more to that. So I think they do, in the director's cut specifically, grow the relationship a lot more. I think it actually makes more sense that he's, you know, that he's taken it back by her, 'cause in the theatrical cut, I just kind of took it as like, he's goofy and doesn't care, but whatever. - Yeah, in the theatrical cut, it feels very much like, this is a movie, we need a lot of interest in this. It actually does feel like they are developing the relationship and trying a bit with it, which not to say, I'm not gonna say that they weren't trying, but when you have a, you know, bombastic Italian man telling you that you need to cut stuff, well, guess what, the love story in your evil dead movie is something that's pretty easy to cut. So I understand. - I do too, I actually, I like it in the theater, I like it in the director's cut because I think it adds more heart and weight, but it also is an evil dead movie and no matter what I didn't even pick, he's not with she. - Yeah. - So it is one of those things I get. There's a scene after, I hope we're at this point, where Mr. Pitt explains the rules and it goes on a little bit longer and it actually, I think, is an example of why I wish Dino didn't cut as much, 'cause there's just a little more information, a little more like, you need to go here, you need to get this and you need to come back, whereas I realize we're moving that, kind of makes Ash stumble into things as opposed to being like guided a little more. You know what I'm talking about? - Yeah, but I kind of like Ash, like the him stumbling and bumbling into things versus it being thought out, 'cause which I also understand like you're reasoning for it because this is this, like, and we've talked how this is our favorite iteration of Ash Williams because he has such a confidence that then they kind of get rid of in other films and the director's cut leans into this even more so where he is a legit great hero and the director's cut. - So in the commentary, did you hear how many times? The last chunk of the commentary is Raimi basically regretting everything he's done with Ash, it was kind of heartbreaking, but I remember it from being a kid because I remember thinking like, oh, I don't agree, but Raimi, you know, that there are scenes where he's a little bit of coward, he's a little bit of a blowhard, he does these things, but then he steps up to the plate and Raimi really did not like that he added that in, and he's like, oh, in the script, it made more sense, but I hate seeing Ash competent, he repeats that over and over. We'll get to it in the part of the movie, but when we eventually talk about the science scene, that's, I think, the scene in the commentary, we've done it, that Sam realized that he fucked up Ash. I don't mind Ash being an idiot, but I like him also being a hero, 'cause I think we've earned watching this fucker, take it up the ass for two movies, I'm okay with it being a little more competent, it makes it a little more sense to me. It's funny that I like Ash more than the director and the writer. - Yeah, it's a weird thing, 'cause yeah, they very clearly are not fans of how the direction they took them in, which then obviously they corrected with Ash versus Evil Dead and made him even more bumbling, and... - After this movie, I watched that episode, the pilot just see to make sure that, 'cause we've talked about this in the commentary, and I was like, okay, I wanna make sure that I'm not missing something, and we are correct, though I will admit, after watching the pilot again, he is heroic, but it is one of those that for every time he's heroic, they fucking make him look like a guy to an idiot for two minutes before, so there is a far more of a, we'll let you, we'll give you your little moment, Ash, but you're gonna earn it, as opposed to this, where even they say, Bruce Kimmel says at the end, when he smiles when Henry and Arthur Hugg, he goes, I didn't feel comfortable smiling, Ash didn't smile, I'm like, oh, God damn it, we can't give this guy a fucking smile. - I mean, it's not surprising that they have this kind of relationship with the character, especially when you then hear about all the different stories of how Sam would torture Bruce on set, there's a-- - Throw real potatoes. - There's that great moment where they're getting brought into the castle, and it's supposed to be, apparently it's supposed to be fake rocks that were being thrown at him, that then Sam decided, as a prank, that he would use potatoes and chuck them at Bruce for, 'cause he wanted it to be more realistic, is what he said, and, which also, we didn't bring it up in the, or no, I think you may have brought it up with the, in Evil Dead 2, where Ash, when he's getting that, that shot of him, it's like the close up, and yeah, and he's getting pushed through the trees, it's literally Sam off-camera, smacking him with fucking tree branches. It's like, so this is a common theme with this, and they have the level of friendship that I aspire for, 'cause it's like, that's what you want with someone, someone that, that trust where it's like, you can just, you can chuck potatoes at 'em, and you know that they're like, it's all for the joke, it's all for the fun of the game, all for the love of the game, another Sam Raimi movie. Yeah, Kevin Costner, which is around the time that they were filming this commentary, 'cause they mentioned this, you just didn't move with Costner, he was like, yeah, I love the game. So I looked it up, I was like, oh shit, dude, 1998 or nine, I was like, that's so just commentary. - Yeah, very old. Well, and also too, we mentioned the commentary, where it's like, this is such a strange commentary, 'cause like Ivan Raimi comes in like over halfway through, after just getting off of a shift at the hospital, and he says maybe like three sentences throughout the rest of the commentary. - Barely talks, he just kind of makes a couple of sounds. - And he sounds similar enough to Sam that you're like, wait, was that Sam, or it's like, oh wait, no, there's Ivan there. - That nerdy voice, which is why I want to bring up real quick that I don't give a red shins a kill, great fucking book. It's like Sam picked down Bruce, but Sam was like the short dorky guy, and Bruce was like, I'm not saying he's a jockey, he's a theater kid, but it's like, how the fuck was Sam picking on Bruce? Just based off of body type alone, you know what I'm saying? It's like, come on, Bruce, you're such a nice guy, you're letting this fucking little die. - He was called to the personality though, I mean, he had quite the presence. We've seen him die in so many different movies at this point. Mr. Sam Raimi shows up in intruder as well, and then obviously body bags at that classic moment. - Got old Shinvers, Campbell's getting fucking pushed around by a little Sam Raimi, but again, that's friendship, and this commentary is old enough that they still had that, which is like, we heard it, I mean, there's commentary now. - No, not at all, that's why that was one of the things that I liked the most about it was like, there was like just a fun energy to them discussing the film that I think that, I mean, yeah, you add in another 25 years of fan conventions and podcasts of telling these stories where you're just, yeah, they're fucking over it. They're like, hey, you wanna talk to me about this thing that I'm doing now? - It's sad, but at least it's documented, and that's what I'd like about a commentary like this. Or as we talked about during Evil A2 with Greg Dicotero, it had a very similar vibe. I mean, I'm pretty sure they all were recorded not too long after each other, it had to be the same couple of years, 'cause the vibe on Evil A2 was the same here. I probably almost liked this better, maybe 'cause I like it when darkness better. There's a little moment where they're talking about how there's a scene in the graveyard where there's women were topless and the skeletons are dragging 'em, and it was just this joke between Ivan and Sam, and they're like, well, we didn't want these new women, somebody else wanted 'em, we just felt like, oh my God, I guess if I have to direct topless women, I will, and there's just a little skit of them basically pretending like they didn't love it while hinting that they loved it, and I was like, oh, that's a youthful conversation, you wouldn't have that now into all these marriages and just being in your fifties, you don't give a shit about tits. But yeah, maybe 40-year-old Sam Raimi was like a little more jokey about him, and I was like, oh man, I really like the vibe. - Yeah, I agree, there's something, I think that I think doing these has definitely made me realize that the Evil Dead franchise commentary-wise is my favorite of any series. There's no commentaries that even come close. It's fucking incredible. - Well, these were my first, so I think it ruined commentaries for me because I've listened to a lot, and there's others I've liked for sure, but I do remember distinctly having a memory of getting into commentaries around 2000, I'm assuming, and kind of looking for this high that I never got again. I remember being kind of bored by some, but it is something that if you find a good commentary, hold on to that tights, because you're not getting that again. They don't do commentaries anymore. There's movies that I'm pretty sure I've looked for commentaries. We've done episodes where I'm like, oh, oh, just- - Oh dude, I'm so excited. I just got long legs on 4K, and it has Osgood Perkins commentary. I'm like, aww, 'cause you know that guy is just gonna be going over in just boring filmmaking details that I love. Like, that's all I want. Yeah, it's like, I would be disappointed if it was like, oh, Osgood Perkins and producer so-and-so. Like, motherfucker, son of a bitch, it's gonna break the flow. - He's well-spoken, and I've seen a lot of interviews, so that's- - Again, there's not many one-person commentary tracks that I would be super pumped for, but that's one where I'm like, oh yeah, 'cause he's gonna have a bunch of interesting knowledge, and it's like, I kind of part of me wishes that it was him and Micah, I think, or him and Nick Cage would be probably even better, but never gonna get that. - In fact, they're getting a commentary that is impressive just because they don't exist. Again, it's something that I took for granted back when I was in high school, and we don't have it. In fact, you get Blu-rays now, even of old movies, and they don't have a commentary track. I've actually learned to stop giving away my DVDs because of this specific thing. - Yeah, no, there's just not many commentary tracks these days, unfortunately. I wish that we'd get some kind of resurgence with them, but maybe we've talked in an episode in the past where it seems to be more shifting towards people like us doing commentary tracks, rather than the actual filmmakers. - Yeah, our own Keir Gomes helped us out during our Gremen's episode was on stuff about the 4K. And you do, yeah, you do a commentary track. - Yeah, and I think we mentioned two in the past, Megan Navarro, who works for Bloody Disgusting, is featured on a lot of those. There's, I'm not, there's a whole, like, sect of feminist Twitter, like, film critic people that are always included on, like, the second site stuff. So it's like, there's a lot of, like, it's definitely, like, it's just changed. It's a, 'cause I think there's, I think there is this weird thing, like, our society's relationship with content that just makes it where this commentary tracks just aren't as viable, it seems like, so we're like, "Whoa, what?" I'll just do a podcast instead, and we can talk about it, or it's like, "Well, I already, I did the, "I did the circuit for that movie when it released, "and I did 30 hours' worth of podcasts." So listen to those if you want information, where it's like, that's not the same, it's not the same. - But because the information is more readily available and they're doing more stuff, it's less likely for us to get a track. Like you said, it's like, the story's been told at conventions. And I, and it's been a while, but I used to go to conventions a lot. And you're right, though, like, you know, can't hutter, I love the death, but there's nothing for him to say more on Jason that hasn't been said at a convention three times a month. So, like, you're not gonna get something from him ever again, it doesn't matter. Like, he's not gonna say, and if he were, it would almost be like a comedian on his last set in his last tour, where it's like, "Oh, it's just, "to the motions," or there's no, you know-- - If anything, I'd be the most interested I'd be for something from him. I'd be like, talk about the Friday the 13th game. What went into that, coming up, you know what I mean? 'Cause it's like the most recent thing, something I haven't heard him talk about a bunch. 'Cause yeah, you don't wanna hear new things. But yeah, so when we mentioned the windmill scene being different, I 100% agree with you. And also, I should say too, I think that there's a version of this film that's like 85 minutes with the color timing that I like, that would probably be the preferred definitive version of this movie, 'cause I agree with you. Like, the windmill scene is better, adds more context, but it's also just, it's just, there's a fun energy to it. There's the, I do like the relationship between he and Shelley, like that stuff, that stuff does work for me. But the things that I don't need, I don't need more of the medieval stuff. Like, I don't need more of like the talk than the medieval people talking and explaining though. Like, I don't need any more of that. I'm glad that stuff was excised. - Okay, so what about the science scene, right? The science scenes were like, they decide that Ash becomes a true hero, which is the moment that Sam Ramey hates the movie, it seems. When he gives that speech, he goes, you know, like, we're gonna fight together, and then they do the montage of them getting gunpowder. That's a lot longer, and it's a lot more thorough. I like that a lot more. - I mean, I will always like a, what is it, like a get ready scene? It's probably because I grew up with the Batman movies, that always, that's like, and it, like it works well with Ramey's style, because it's the zoom ins, which I get such a kick out of. For a long time, I used to attribute that to like a Edgar Wright kind of thing, and then I realized, I'm like, oh, he might've gotten that from Ramey. - Oh, absolutely. There's an interview where he says like, the evil dead is like the most influential film to him. It's like, and yeah, yeah, and yeah, the zappens a pooch, pooch. - Yeah, and the whole, I mean, the whole thing, it's like so many of the zoom ins, which then like, it then ends with the ultimate zoom in, which is like, when he does the wrist, like he has the new, the new hand groovy. - As much as the building, the chainsaw in part two is amazing. I love the hand bit more, 'cause I just think it's better. And I think it's better because Sam Ramey's a better director, there's more money. It's just, there's, I understand the, I understand if people disagree, 'cause there's more of a amateur sort of like-- - 'Cause there's a believability to the chainsaw. There's a, yeah, there's no believability with the hand, but that's fun. But I like this. It's like, you know, Sheila's like, you know, she's sewing the blanket. There's just something about this. It's just so epic to me. But then when they go later and they do the training and the science and the car building, like that's fucking far better in this version, man. I know it's probably an only an extra like 15, 20 seconds, but I really think it just drives home more that like, ash is fucking taking charge. And again, probably why Ramey hates it. - Yeah, I mean, the one thing that I think is, and this shows the, how much like one shot can make a difference and this has always stood out to me. There's, it's the shot of, it's the hand and it's opened. And then it has the like the pliers reach in and it moves which then like closes the hand and does like the zoom in. That one shot, then show like, we don't have to go into the logistics of how that fucking hand works. That one shot does everything for us. It's like, yeah, when you think about it further, we're like, well, wait, how are you gonna, it's gonna do that every time? Or it's like, no, no, it's just showing how it works. And so then we get the mechanics. And yeah, it's like, yeah, when you think of it further then it's like, well, yeah, you don't have anything that can like indicate like, you know what I mean? Opening a hand. And it's the same reason why we have, - The mechanism. - Yeah, we, it's 2024. We're still having issues with bionic, bionic hands and shit. So, but it's fun, that one, that one shot essentially gets rid of the need for an explanation for some dumb like, sciency explanation, which then would like, kind of make it even more silly and unbelievable. But instead it's like, nope, it's a visual that then just gets the point across that then still helps like establish and keeps this world grounded. - I've been in Sam were smarts in terms of, things are silly, but they really do their best to establish the whys. Same with, okay, it's a double barrel shotgun, that's two bullets. And so every time off screen after there's a shot, you hear a, which means that that's ash. That's gonna say Sam Ash, the super scamble, reloads at a level of a super professional gunshot. So it's like, okay, does it make sense? Technically it does. Now, you know, college kid or like post college kid or this girlfriend and dorm, be that good at shooting that he could load that fast? No, but I don't give a shit 'cause you added the sound effect, good enough. - Yep, yeah, I agree. And it's like, that's all you need 'cause I think about that same thing with like if someone had a revolver. So all I need to hear is something off screen, just like that moment, there sounds like a reload. That's all, you don't need to actually show. Like 'cause I get it, I understand there's stuff you got a band-aid together. You may have excise to seeing that then changes the whole like structure of what happens, which I mean, we'll get into it in a bit. The battle scene was totally restructured. So like that's a very much a common element in this film where it's not just stuff was cut up, things were actually moved around. - It shows too that adding in like it's, there's a smart way to add in lore and it's when it goes unnoticed. There, we brought up this movie a few times, Alien Romulus. There is a, they added another step of the Alien lifecycle. And-- - The cocoon, right? - Yeah, which totally works. I have not seen anyone bitch about that as like adding some additional thing. Because when you add something that then just adds to the lore, just builds, adds to the world building, which this, that windmill scene does because it's like, wait a minute, what's this weird duplication thing that's going on? Like, wait, the thing can make little versions of you. And then, I mean, it gets ramped up further with the eye and then it fucking, he splits off or it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This thing has the ability to reproduce and create an evil version of you, which also, we don't really see again in the series, which is probably a thing. It's kind of why this is the redheaded stepchild of the franchise a bit, 'cause they introduce, yeah, that don't really get brought back. Though, doesn't Ash vs. Evil Dead do the little guy thing? Don't they bring that back for something? - I mean, they bring back the little doll in the, they bring the doll in that first episode. I don't know, actually, they might, it's been a while. I mean, they go back to the cabin at the end of season one, season two. - I just thought that they did something. Yeah, I thought they did something with little, with like little, I don't wanna say little people 'cause then that gives a different connotation. 12 inch tall people. - I haven't seen it since it aired, which we should eventually get to the series. Even if we just do a truncated thing of it 'cause after doing this, I'm like, yeah, I'm very curious 'cause it is, it's like, what do they keep, what do they not keep? 'Cause, yeah, I remember it live, but yeah, that aired so long, oh. - Yeah, which thankfully I have it in the Evil Dead Groovy collection, which has that full series in it. - Except for my darkness. - Except for my army of darkness, yeah. Well, I mean, now it doesn't have the, I meant the whole TV series, no, 'cause it does not. It also does not have Evil Dead 2013 or Evil Dead Rise, so it's really not definitive. Or Evil Dead Burn or Evil Dead Plow, Evil Dead, whatever the fuck, other. - That confusing names. - Dude, that's as soon as I saw that the next one is Evil Dead Burn, I was like, oh, so that's the title. That's the title scheme we're doing now. Evil Dead Blank. - Stupid title, I really hope it changes. - It's awful. Evil Dead Burn, Evil Dead Burn Zuh even works better. Like Evil Dead Burn? - I liked Evil Dead Rise, just, I didn't care for the movie, but the title, I'm like, oh, at least that makes it kind of add. Okay, yeah, it's coming up, it's re-emerging, fair enough. Burn, I don't really understand-- - I didn't like Rise 'cause I was like, really? 'Cause it's set in a high rise, fuck off. - So during the little book scene after, you know, that's the same, but there is that added line, which I really like, after all the zany, three stooges bits, you know, it goes in the mouth and he fucking breaks it off, so that keep your-- - Yeah, that's a fun, yeah, there's a fun moment with that. And like, that's, I have a hard time between the windmill scene and the book scene and in terms of like a favorite, because I love those both so, so much, but it might be the book scene just because of, I like the, and his face elongating, but then also like the trying to get poke his eyes where then he puts his hand up and then they go on either side. There's just, there's a lot of fun slapstick stuff in it. - The whole book scene is great, you're right. I mean, it's different 'cause I think the book scene is really just physical. I mean, well, I see them as physical too, but the other one I think is more special sex driven where this is just fucking Bruce, like you have to just own this. 'Cause there's just reactions, I think I mentioned the commentary, but after the book bites him, he gives it this, like he points to it, he goes, I'm coming back. Like, I'm gonna finish this, but we're not done. We're not fucking done. Yeah, like he was so bitter about it. And I was like, that's such a little moment that I always like, oh, that's just amazing. I just got my asking by a book, I'd be bitter. - Yeah, and even though it's done as kind of a gag. This does establish that we have multiple books of the dead. - Which is what they use for evil that rise. - Yeah, I think, isn't it also mentioned in the first in evil dead, like the remake, that there's multiple? - I don't remember. This is the one I was, I was remember of the ones, but-- - Guess we'll find out when we get to it. Yeah, why don't we get to it? - I mean, we'll find out, we'll find a next. - Oh yeah, I guess that's next shit. Even though it's the, I always forget 'cause there's like a 20 year, there's a 20 year break in between, it's like you expect there to be something else. Even, 'cause even during the commentary, as it's like you mentioned the regret that Sam has, it's like he, I think he even mentioned something of like, oh yeah, what the evil dead for, you're like, gonna be more of a schmuck. - So as he says, he goes, well, don't worry. When we do evil dead for, we're gonna bring Ash down to the lowest common denominator. They wanted to make him so fucking stupid because of this. So in that kind of, it kind of tracks. But again, after watching, I watched the pilot right after this just 'cause like, I know it sounds like I'm talking shit and I love the show. It's actually one of my favorite pilots ever. Like they did make him a complete bitch. They just made sure every time he's heroic for the five minutes before he was a complete loser. - I mean, I'll always appreciate that show for the fact that they were able to introduce, like 'cause so many, so many films have done this where we're trying to introduce the young up-encomers, whether it's mission-impossible, ghost protocol, with Jeremy Renner. It's like they're trying to then have the younger person take the mantle. And there's so many ways that they could have gone terrible, especially for something that Ash and the evil dead is something that, as in the Ash, the character, and the evil that franchise, it's such a thing that is, he's very much on his own, despite the fact that he does team up with people in like this film too. Ultimately, it always comes down to Ash versus the evil dead. So then the fact that they were able to introduce Pablo and Kelly, and they're just such good characters and by the end of season three, I'm not gonna say you care about 'em as much as Ash, but that's because, but you care about 'em 'cause it's like, Ash is way up. I care about Ash more than most characters. Care about Ash more than some family members, like. - You're saying it, and then I'm gonna agree with you and I bet I'm gonna say in different terms, they did the impossible. They added sidekicks and somehow made me like 'em almost as much. Never once did I fucking be, was I annoyed or was I like, oh, Jesus Christ, okay? I didn't have to tolerate them. Them trying and succeeding is not something that should be followed, it should be something that should be fucking, you should be warned against, be scared, because they did something that can't be done. It'll never be done again, I don't know. If it was luck, I think a lot had to do with just the chemistry of Kelly and Pablo and that they, as competent as they were, they never sort of made Ash the bitch. I think that's something that would happen now. They did something that could not be done and I feel like we should really just admit how fucking rare it is. - Yeah, I think that perfectly sums up why that somehow they were able to pull it off and when we look at even Ash, or Army of Darkness, I don't then, I'm never looking at the film and going, I wish that Sheila was an evil dad for, you know what I mean? It's never like, oh, I wish she was here. - It's fine in this. - Yeah, it's never like, yeah, I like them for being in the film, but it's not, I don't need a continuation. Like Ash being the only through point is fine for me. - Yeah, no, no, it's, 'cause, 'cause they're, there are supplemental characters doing their job, but it's Ash's story and it should always be Ash's story. Even with Kelly and Pablo, it still was Ash. They were integrated in a very intelligent way that felt natural, but I still feel like Ash was the focal point and that's, that's really, you know, it's not passing the baton, it's not passing the torch, don't do that. Make sure that you keep the character I love going in a way that feels authentic. - Yeah, and the, you should mention to the Klatsu, Verrata, Nick 2, absolute classic line, which then is apparently it's taken from the day the earth stood still, but it's Barata, not Verrata, like with a B versus a V, which is obviously in the, in the Army of Darkness, it's Klatsu, Verrata, Nick 2, and I've, they've used that in multiple, I've heard that in other movies since, it's like I just have fun little aside, which also, when they reference it, they're not referencing day the earth stood still, they're doing it in that, but I'm saying other films, they're referencing evil, or Army of Darkness. - I would absolutely, if I made a movie, put those words in there in some sort of password, because I wanna give, I wanna give a little nod to fucking Army of Darkness, dude, it's a classic. And he like looks around, like somebody's watching them. He gives it the shoulder, like it looks like other shows. - Dude, a little bit of an aside, but so I'm playing this game Star Wars Outlaws, it's like you get to play as like a female Han Solo. That, 'cause there's obviously alien language on Star Wars, and there's like these random times where the character will like, it's a thing of frustration, and she says, "Deg Ferk. "Deg Ferk is the kid that plays Michael Myers "in Halloween, and all I could think is, "is there someone on that works on this "that is friends with him, or just knows the name?" And it's like, this would be a fun little thing to do. 'Cause it's, again, every time I hear it, I'm like, they're saying, "Deg Ferk, like what the fuck?" So that kind of stuff, where it's like, yeah, but it's always fun to then hear something in something else, that then, yeah, that's why hearing Clatu Verrata Nickto is always an absolute pleasure. - We like seeing, oh, also, just 'cause as we're getting older, we realize the references that we would be into are probably fewer and far between, so it's like, every time I hear something even remotely familiar, I'm like, "Oh, thank God, we're still around. "Somebody still knows good stuff, you know, "'cause the nostalgia now is so far past what I grew up. "I mean, you know, people are like nostalgia for like 2010." I'm like, "What?" - Dude, trust me, I made that joke in my "Black Christmas" video of like, so grateful to have another modern movie to add to my Christmas rotation. They have you chime in, you're like, "It's 20 years ago." It's like, what? - 20 years, yeah. - It's 'cause now it's 19 years at this point, 'cause yeah, we're in 2025, where it's like, "What the fuck?" 20, like, "What? Excuse me?" - I think in 1999 it's new, so yeah, we're all screwed. - Yeah, everything, if it's anything like, Spiderman and after, I'm like, "Oh yeah, that's modern." Like, that's new. It's like, "Oh fuck, 23 years at this point." - 'Cause then you look back and that means that like, that means that movie in like the 90s would be, I don't know, like late 60s? I'm like, "Oh shit, okay, yeah, we're that far behind." Like, liking movies from 1985 means I would have been liking movies from like 1962. I'm like, "Oh shit." - Yeah, that's the kind of thing for like, just, yeah, it's hard, it's a hard pill to swallow. Probably why there's so many films that are not available on streaming services. 'Cause they're like, "Well, why would we put this 80s and 90s shit up when we can put up all this modern stuff that people care about?" - I saw a meme that had this person sitting in a field next to the Twin Towers, I don't know if it's like edited, but it said the world we grew up in is already gone. And I'm like, "Oh, it's like absolutely dude, the world that I grew up in." - Yeah, I mean, that's sadly, that is the case where people like, you just can't get people to give a shit about older stuff. Which again, there's a bit of a pacing issue when it comes to a lot of stuff where, at least I assume, that's why there's the issue with it. 'Cause yeah, there's pacing problems with anything, I feel like anything that's older. - Yeah, but-- - But I shouldn't say it. When I'm bitching about army of darkness is pacing, when I'm like, it's not even, I'm not really-- - No, I mean, you're right, it is pacing, but it's, now you have to, I think we're the last generation that like kind of look back and dug for interesting things to think with the amount of stuff that's produced now, kids don't have to look back. And because they don't look back, they don't have any sort of historical reference to anything. So everything just seems, "Oh, this is doing this." It's like, "Well, no, they're doing something that's been done 50 fucking times, and I'll show you four times it's better." That's what they're missing. And it breaks my heart. 'Cause yeah, this is Jason Magrenauts, right? This is essentially-- - Can absolutely-- - But it's a level to do that. You know, even as a kid when I saw this, you know, I watched that movie at my Nana's house. That's why I had a reference. I didn't think this was breaking the new ground. I understood it was a love letter to what somebody else liked. And that's, I think, that's the missing piece is, there's no love letters anymore because people aren't really looking back as much. Speak, you know, tie it in. The battle scene is very different. And it's actually my only, my third issue is I'm saying this now and we could talk about it. I don't like when Henry of the Red comes in and the-- - It breaks up the battle. It's like a super battle. - Yeah. I mean, the theatrical makes more sense. 'Cause it only seems like it comes in when it's already done. Though I do like the extended stuff in this, personally, because I just, I like more action and adventure. And the car scene is extended. That's a good example. And there's just more violence and a little more gags. I understand why it was cut. I'm gonna say I really like it in because I'm not bored by this. I actually, this is like, unlike Sam Raining, this is probably my favorite parts of the movie 'cause it's the part where all the money shows up. Yeah, it's crazy. I never realized too that, 'cause I think the first act is so daylight heavy, but from about the 30 minute mark on, this is all set at night, like everything. And then even from essentially like the 40, 40 minute mark, 45 minute mark, about 44 is the battle scene. It's 'til the end, like 44 minutes 'til the end. There's a little aside where it's showing the cemetery where the guys are, like all the army is waking up, but I would consider that all part of the getting ready. So this battle sequence is, I mean, it's a full like 30 minutes, which is impressive given it's a small budget. Like I said, I feel like the money's on the screen real quick. I gotta bring up 'cause it's my favorite lines. When the dead's waking up, it's like one of those stop motion things when the skeleton's like, "Welcome back to the land of the living." No, get a shovel and start digging. It's just, I know, like these are things that I love about this week is that these small little fucking moments, man, and army of darkness is just full of them. But the battle scene, I've always liked. I mean, like I said, I get why it's cut down. There's a moment though that I swear to God, they show one of Ted Raimi's characters. You know, he plays like five of them, but there's one with a chain mail, and he has like the dark goatee, the mustache goatee. I swear there's a scene where one of the skeletons has his head in the background, and I fucking didn't time stamp it, but in the actual cut, during the battle, it's in the castle, I swear it's him, but they didn't mention the commentary, so I have no idea. But I don't, like I said, outside of one Henry, the red comes, I would cut him in earlier, like the theatrical, but I would actually keep all the stuff in. I don't think it slows him to be down. I think it just kind of makes the ending more epic personally. Yeah, I mean, I don't have issues with the, yeah, like Erik the Red coming in, mostly because he comes in at a weird spot. It's like it like truncates the battle with like Ash and Evil Ash, 'cause it happens like right in the middle of that, which then it like, it's essentially like a, okay, we see all the like stuff with Erik the Red, and it's like, oh, cut back to this, where then it's like, well, wait a minute, what? They were just sitting around waiting this whole time. Like, like what? It would also doesn't feel like he does much. He like, he cuts the speech where Skeleton Ash is on the dynamite. That scene is cut 'cause he looks and goes, oh, even with Erik the Red, she's the Christ, Erik the Red. Henry the Red, I see, he like, his speech is about that. It's like, well, you're already a Skeleton, you're already on the fucking, it's gonna kill you. Like, now's not the time to have more soldiers come in. It's like, we're about to kill the main bad guy. It just seems, you know, one of those things where, yeah, maybe in the script, it made more sense, but at this point, it's like, we're already done. - Yeah, it definitely doesn't, like it just feels disconnected and doesn't, doesn't work. But I, one thing I absolutely love about this whole final scene is the mixture of the different guy. Like, there's some people who are in like rubber suits. There's some that stop motion, some, it's like, there's puppetry, I love the mixture of all of it, which like, there's the great shots where it's like combining them all, all is one. And like, that's what, that's what makes it so, so interesting and unique because they're, they're physically there. And if they aren't physically there, then they have to be accounted for in such a technical way that they may as well be there. 'Cause it's like the timing of it of, oh, you have to hit your mark here because this thing will be passing here. 'Cause I know that that's a big issue that Bruce had during the battle sequences. - There's one specifically, right? He can't come up there. - Because Sam's an asshole and went to these stunt people and it's like, I want this to be as complicated as possible and Bruce about like tore his hair out because it took him like 39 takes to do this really long action sequence that then, 'cause he had to hit his marks exactly because they were going to then superimpose these, the stop motion skeletons. So it had to be exact. And of course, Sam Raimi wants to torture his friend and he has the skill to, you know, cut things up and not make it quite as torturous on him, but nope. There's anyway, gotta love it. Good ol' Sam. - And I think that's another reason why I love this much is that there is so many different layers of cool practical facts like that. It's like rear projection with a live action guy and a horse and front of the horse is a puppet. And it's like all three of those things happening at the same time. And like you're right, there's, they even mentioned in the commentary scene with Arthur where he's fighting a bunch of stop motion and mission skeletons while he's battling guys coming up, like I think real guys coming up for the ladder. So he had like, I think it took like 30 tries to like, okay, punch that guy, duck, back one, two, hit. They also said something that makes sense that as if, you know, somebody's in the film making like you, how basically this entire part of the movie, all the dialogue is ADR because they had like, what's it called? Like metronomes, counting things out. So it's like one, two, three, four, so seriously. Okay, on 33, 34 and 35, you gotta be here, here and here. I'm like, oh, that's, that's a cool, you know, little behind the scenes thing that I would never think of how you would actually accomplish this. Yeah, like, like timing, out loud timing and everything has to be added in after. - Yeah, and I mean, then going off of that, they also had to the, they had to do, and essentially in order to shoot it or the most efficiently, Sam had multiple cameras. And because of that, they do wide shots while doing closer shots, they do like a medium along with a close up. - But then it would require the boom mic to be way out of position. So the audio wasn't usable. So Bruce had to wear a wireless lav that they then hid in the chainsaw. The receiver was hidden in the chainsaw, which is very, very cool. It's like a fun, fun way for them to-- - How are they getting audio? - I'm assuming they're doing that so they could accurately do ADR later, right? Or were they using it? - No, just to pick up his lav. 'Cause when you think of it, a lot of those scenes, it'll just be him speaking. So it makes sense. It's like it's just him that you gotta deal with. 'Cause again, they use a lot of lav, they use a lot of lav, a lot of lav for audio. And most of what we hear in film is the lav versus the-- - Really? No, I didn't know that. I mean, I figured they used it for like a wider shots and stuff where you couldn't hide a boom. I just still assumed the boom was like the way to go. - Boom is kind of like your backup. Boom is like the, oh shit, we had a closed rustle. - Oh shit? - During that. - Does this make sense? 'Cause you could hide it or you could remove it, right? I mean, really, you didn't have to hide it. You could put it right fucking right clear and stay on the shirt and just take it out. - Yeah, I think it always depends on, I think it's sometimes just a director's preference 'cause sometimes they don't like how a lav sounds to, was they like too hot, too personal? Or then sometimes you want the boom for it to sound more natural for the ear. - Yeah. - A bunch of crazy stuff back when I actually, that's why I had to get out of doing production. 'Cause that's a nightmare. It's the same thing, I can't watch a movie, see it set in a grocery, and see any scene in a grocery store without thinking all of the terrible logistics that went into it 'cause grocery stores are awful to film in because of all of the, no, all of the fridges. It's all feedback and frequency. You have like audio issues constantly. Sometimes, so you got it. So like, especially a lot of times, you'll have to like make a deal where it's like, "Hey, can we shut off the fridges for like five minutes?" Nowadays, which nowadays, I say that, and it's like a lot of this was, I went to, at this point, I am almost, well, what is, yeah, I'm over a decade removed from like my film school. So they're, and AI has become so crazy since then that maybe they don't even worry about that kind of stuff anymore. They're like, "Ah, as long as we get the basic voice, then we can just AI, we can just, you know what I mean?" - Like, you just remove it as room tone, basically? They just got like, glad to bleed for a little while. - Yeah, which, because they do that a lot. I mean, they do a bunch of recreation, which, we'll talk, we'll talk off our air about some of the fun seven AI stuff that they did because I was quite impressed with some of that. - Well, this is all built from the ground up. I mean, like the sound of fans and stuff going. So, I mean, I think even in the commentary, they talked about like using computer and they're like, "How dorky is it?" And they're like, "Oh, we had to use computer." It's like fucking, you know, they even admitted how old they sounded. - Yeah, it's like a whole different, different style. Like, I'd say doing computer now versus then is very, very different. You think of computers back then, you think of like lawnmower man and T2. But I will say too, I, 'cause I got the 4K for this so that I could see the director's cut. And wouldn't you fucking know it? The director's cut is on just the standard Blu-ray. So I still have not watched this movie on actual 4K. - I mean, it's, I think it's beautiful in Blu-ray if I'm being honest, but it's slightly more polished than on 4K. - I was gonna say though, but you don't, that's why I'm curious though, 'cause you don't like grain being removed. And I would say this is a grainy movie. So did they do a lot of grain removal? - Not aggressive enough. You know, to me grain, you always have grain. I don't need, you know, to me, that was a balance. Like 4K is always gonna be a little less grain, but as long as it, it's not that sort of waxy look that we had that issue with the Blu-rays. You know, I ever watched the watch predator in Blu-ray back in the day they went over fucking-- - The DNR, yeah. - Yeah, they went a little crazy. So I think it's, it's probably, I consider it like a great looking 4K. I mean, I didn't get to watch it this time around, 'cause obviously we know about my fact, my fucking 4K broke and this is in Blu-ray anyway, but no, if I'm correct last time, I watch your me darkness in 4K. I thought it was a great transfer. So I think you'll have a good time. - That's awesome. - Colors are great. - Well, and then let's get into the ending because this is where, I mean, this is the big, the big change between the two films and I will always, always prefer the S-Mart ending, always. Like everything about it, it connects with the old witch in like the first act of the film. It also connects with the actual that the beginning, but then we also get another Ted Raimi appearance. If we get that great line, like everything about it, everything about it. - For being a reshoot, it might be the coolest reshoot of all time. It's so cool that it feels, you know, and they say in the commentary and I know it's true that people consider this the alternate ending. It's like, no, the S-Mart's the alternate ending. It's like, yeah, but why does this feel like an alternate ending? Why does the S-Mart feel more authentic? Like I said, it ties in better. Again, but I know why, 'cause Ash is a fucking hero in it. And the one where he takes the drops, he's once again an idiot. And it's funny 'cause I get it. And every evil dad, Ash gets fucked at the end. I really, I do understand why they like it 'cause it matches up with the series where Ash always loses at the end. That being said, Ash is just cool by this point. Like we have to be cool. We haven't given cool fucking lines. Save the day, kiss the girl. Like you could continue off of that and say that, okay, no, he brought evil back with them. And then we could have a cool adventure. We fucked up again, that's fine. But really the fact that Ash winning just a little bothers him will always be a sticking point to me. - Yeah. - It's just, it's far better. I don't hate this ending. I mean, I don't think it's bad, it's fine. It looks cool, there's a cool moment where like Ash is walking into the cave. The other guy's walking out and it stops at a chess plate. It's interesting directing the flashes and you know, the beer grows. Oh, hey, I don't think it's bad directed. It's just, it's, it's, what's the word anticlimactic to me personally. I'm like, oh, it's just, oh, sleeps. And then that's it though. - I think one thing that I really like about the S-Mart ending is I love that he just went through this heroic battle in medieval times, save the day. And now he's stocking shelves in S-Mart with, he still has his cuts and scars and like it's still very recent. So, and telling the story like it's a casual story. Like it's just, it's like, yeah, he went to, he went to fucking Miami for the weekend. He has that sort of a tone. And that's what I like is like, like truckets in the past, you know? Good luck. It's, yeah, yeah. - It's like the world is, is ever turning still. It doesn't matter. Like there's a, yeah, it's like and things didn't stop just because Ash went back in time. He still has a nine to five to work. - And I think that's the kind of goofiness of Ash that I, I prefer it, I like. 'Cause that to me, though he was a hero, he's stocking shelves and he's trying to handle this girl and he's telling stories to Ted Raimi's character who's bored. So he doesn't even, he's not picking up on the social cues. He's like, okay, that's a good balance of awkward and goofy to me. Like, like, I like that. Not that again, I love him in the show, but just showing you like, you know, I want to tell Sam Raimi his face. Like you, you still made him an idiot. You still got your little jabbing, buddy. It's just he gets the girl. - Yeah. - Can he not get the girl? Come on, like, come on. - Yeah, 'cause hell. It's not even, it's not even the girl that he was like dealing with throughout the movie. Like that's, that's another thing. - Ash has three girls in this film, Linda, Sheila, and then whoever this girl is at the end, who is? - That, but it's all based on the story. She was like, oh, that story, you almost being king was hot of the stupid story that sounds so fake. And it's like, he bumbles himself into essentially getting a girl. You know, it's not 'cause he's slick. He's just so thick. But didn't think of his story being an idiot. She goes, she goes, oh, that story's kind of cute. Which this girl is like a very, I view her. She is the, the, the problematic girl for me because she plays Linda in the wedding singer, the girl who leaves, leaves Adam Sandler at the altar and is just like a fucking mess. And then she's also Chloe the copy girl from Friends who gets, who breaks up Ross and Rachel. So it's like, yeah, so it's like I see her and I'm like, like there's just something where I'm like, oh, you, I know you from the 90s, you're a bad person. I thought there was times where I was like, oh, this is, this is Linda again 'cause she has a, yeah, she has, yeah, she has a similar look to Linda. But I, which I assume is on purpose. There's all the women in Ash's life all look the same. - Off goes that S-Mart have that sort of pixie red hair, yeah. - Yeah. - But far better ending, far better ending, you know, I just, and it's the one that everybody else likes. And I think it's, that's authentic, that, that makes sense. It's cool, we get the cool line, the cool music. - I don't know anyone that likes the time travel ending. - Objectively, not as cool. Yeah, yeah, maybe it makes sense thematically with the rest of the movies. But I don't give a shit. This is kind of like, like you said, the redhead step show. This is kind of the black sheep. - It really is. And Simmery says it in the interviews on the Blu-ray DVD, which is, did not wanna make a horror movie as much as you wanna make an adventure movie with a horror character. So like, I'm okay with it being different. If yes, if he's gonna swing the girl and say, "Hilled the King," I'd rather, I'd rather, that's fucking awesome. - Yeah. Well, and we mentioned how there is a 20 year break, or nearly 20 year break between films. However, we did get, we did receive video games in this time period. - PS2 and the Dreamcast, I believe. - Yeah, so it was "Hail to the King" and "A Fistful of Boomstick." And both of them essentially serve as maybe not sequels, but like just different little fun continuations that then, 'cause Bruce Campbell voices ash in them. And there's just, I mean, there's a lot of dumb video game tropes with them that, you know, they have to then make the story go toward like, that, you know, can fit in basic video game tropes from the 90s, but it's still really well done. Those curious, if you don't wanna play it yourselves. We on "JoeBlo Horror Originals," Andrew Hatfield did a, did "Playing with Fears," this is the old video game series on horror video games, and he did it for both "Hail to the King" and "A Fistful of Boomstick." So like moves through the story and you have to see some of the gameplay elements. So it's a good way to see if you would be interested in those games. - I recommend them. I spent my high school years and it looks like regeneration came in 2005. So that must have been like my second apartment or first. I would say these, I play these games during my favorite time in my life, just hanging out with my buddies, being assholes. And you're right, it's a continued, I mean, it's not a direct continuation, but it is. I mean, the movie's hole happened and this ash seems to be more influenced, at least in the "Bistful of Boomstick and Regeneration," more on the army of darkness ash, because obviously that was the last iteration. - Yeah, it seems that I'm looking at, they seem to be referred to as like alternate timeline. So the, which that I think most, I don't think any like a video, like that makes sense. I don't want then a video game to then be like, canon with, you know what I mean? 'Cause then it makes it-- - Except "Ghostbusters III." - The "Ghostbuster" game, I can say that, that is our only "Ghostbusters III." But besides that, you're right though, 'cause I don't, when you do with the media, it's like, don't make me fucking play something. What if I'm an into it? What if I'm not like, what if I'm not into this type of style and else in the store continues? Yeah, fuck that, I don't like that. I really don't. If it's a movie, it has continuing movies. Obviously the show changes that, which I'm fine with, but normally outside of that, I don't like the mediums being changed. - Yeah, there is actually a two hour and 11 minute version of "Ghostbusters", the video game remastered on YouTube. That's just all the cutscenes. And so if you're curious, if you're curious to see what a real "Ghostbusters III" would look like, that gives you a good idea, though, I will say, one of the primary elements of the games and what makes the game so fun are the little interactions, insults while you're actually playing the game because you're playing alongside the "Ghostbusters" and they interact and say things. And guess what? It's the full voice cast, including Bill Murray. So it's impressive. Like they just, they do a fucking awesome job with it. I, or well, wait, is it Bill Murray? And now that I said that-- - No, it's over. It's over, okay. - I thought so, but that was like, wait a minute. I thought so, but there's times where we say stuff on the show and then I'm like, fuck, I really hope that was true, so that it's like-- - No, no, it's all of them back, which is why it's to me that we had number three in a game for 'em and I'm okay with it. Everybody is alive, everybody came back, everybody was happy, it's written by a lot of people. - Great story, too. I remember the story. It brings in elements from with Vigo and-- - Exactly. You get to play some old scenes, but it felt authentic, too, 'cause like the ghost-- And it's a great game. - Yeah, I mean, I'm hoping people have played it to listen to us 'cause you're fans of that stuff, but if you haven't, that's amazing. It really is a fucking fun, fun game. - Yeah, well, I feel like we've pretty much done Army of Darkness. What would you write this film, Lance? - I mean, probably 10 out of four, but it's a four star film. It'll always be my favorite. I'll hold this in a special place near and dear to my heart, too. - Yeah, I'm right there with you. Four out of four, 10 out of four, 11. Like, it's my favorite. It was the first entry that I ever saw and just is an incredible time. It is one of, yeah, best one-liners. And I think, too, it is-- I think I'll watch the director's cut again in the future with a different mindset. I think that what I get out of Army of Darkness is the fun, and it almost feels like it's a comfort movie for me, so getting rid of that element, it was a little tough pill to swallow. Yeah, so I think another viewing when I then have that in mind. 'Cause it's, again, it's not like I disliked it, but it got, again, it got rid of the stuff that makes it Army of Darkness for me. So it wasn't quite as appealing to me, but I will definitely try it out again, though the ending, the ending I just can't. - I liked it a lot more this time. For almost a similar reason of probably why you didn't, or I shouldn't say why you didn't. Like, you're right, it's a comfort movie, but because I love this movie so much, having more-- - Yeah. - Just more scenes, more ash, more Sheila. Like, I just immediately was drawn to it. That being said, I would have to make my own version 'cause I'm fucking removing that stupid, boring ending because you have to have ash lean over what's your face and say, "Hail to the King" as in-- - Danny Elfman did the main theme. - Danny Elfman, yeah. So when that kicks in, there's something new, there's something about that I consider perfect. - Which I, we didn't bring that up during, so I wanna bring it up now. Apparently Danny Elfman did the main theme that then they put throughout the film, but then the other guy did the majority of the actual score, which is something I was not aware of. - Joseph Laduka. - Yes, 'cause we talked about it in a theatrical, like a lot of the music, this movie's amazing, and it's Daluka's music. I mean, the main theme is-- - They've mentioned. They mentioned in the commentary of like, it's him. Like, yeah, it's Laduka. I like you wanna say Daluka, 'cause Daluka's the normal version of that, but he's actually the composer on the Chucky TV series, so it looks like he's still staying around. - Wait, is it Daluka or Luka? - Laduka. - Laduka, okay. - That's why, and I know it's, 'cause Michael Laduka is somebody, but no, this is Joseph. - Isn't Daluka is the guy that works for a new line that he's the head of, he's the head of now or head of-- - A mix and stuff like a fool. Amateur mistake today, huh? - Dude, there's so much shit like that. It's hard to, it's hard to keep track of stuff. We're expected to be experts on everything. It's tough. (laughs) - Fantastic movie. I'm glad I got to speak about it again. This is one of those that every time I get to do it, I'm gonna self promote myself. I did a little video on Jublow Hor visuals I'm very proud of for 30th anniversary, where I just talk about why every darkness is great. So help a brother out. - Yeah, definitely make sure you check that out. It's an awesome video. And thank you guys so much for listening. If you want even more of us talking about Army of Darkness, then you can check out our commentary on the theatrical cut with Andrew Hatfield. That is on our Patreon. And then we also had a fun monthly roundup that released earlier this month, that is all of our monthly roundups released on Patreon, the first of the month. And that one had, we talked about the first smile, Black Christmas 2019, Y2K, Indiana Jones game, terrible Hallmark Christmas movies, and the last show girl. God, I remember recording that, but it feels like it was forever ago and it really wasn't. But yeah, then also we released a special bonus episode on New Year's Eve. It was our best of 2024. We went over our favorite films of 2024, which was very, very, very fun time. I think you are going to be shocked at some of Lance's choices if you have not checked it out yet. And yeah, it's a very fun time. Make sure to check that out. And we will see you guys in the next episode as we cover the Evil Dead remake. Thank you guys for listening, and we will see you then. Goodbye. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
Lance and Tyler get into the more humorous side of the franchise with Army of Darkness.
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