(upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Welcome back to the show, I'm my Scars Podcast. I'm your host, Derek Duker. Today I bring you my conversation with Stephanie Robinson, the Executive Director for the National Alliance on Mental Illness, or NAMI. I was excited to talk with Stephanie for a couple of reasons. When I first moved back to the Springfield area, there was a several months wait list for therapists. And at different times, I didn't have the money for one. NAMI offers peer led support groups for free, so I was able to get some much needed perspective. I am a huge advocate for at least giving these peer led support groups a try. I also wanted to talk to Stephanie because she was able to overcome agoraphobia and routine panic attacks. I think her story could be a big inspiration for anyone suffering with mental illness. In this episode, we talk about her journey, how she overcame a debilitating mental illness to becoming an executive director of a nonprofit. And we also discuss all the resources NAMI has to offer. Before we begin, I have to provide a trigger warning for some listeners. Stephanie is agoraphobia and panic attacks caused her to make an attempt to end her life. And she mentions it early on in the episode. That part of the story begins with her telling her husband that she's not going to call him that day. If you skip ahead one minute, you should get past that particular part of the story. It's not overly graphic, but she does say what she did as an attempt. I did not want to do this, but in order to prevent my podcast from getting removed from the different podcasting sites and YouTube, I censored a couple of words. I would like to say that the reason I hated doing it is because I feel it's important to talk about the darkest times in our lives and how we were able to overcome them without mensing words. Stephanie and other survivors' stories are all we have to help lead others who have those thoughts out of those dark places. They are a shining light and offer a playbook to survival for us all. They're also a warning, I feel, to society that something is a mess. Anyway, I'll step off my soapbox now and get to my conversation with Stephanie Robinson. - We'll go ahead and get started here. First, I want to tell you how much I appreciate you coming on and agreeing to do this. Like I said, before we started recording, I used to come here for the support groups. It was a huge blessing for me at a time where I think I was waiting on a one-to-one therapist for a long time. - I was talking to you about how you first got started here before we were recording, but like, can you go back over that story? Like, how'd you get your foot in the door here? - So this, I'm so glad that you asked me to do this because I very rarely get the opportunity to give kind of a more personal perspective. It's more job, job, job. So NAMI is a peer-led organization, which means we are non-clinical. It means that everyone that works here has a diagnosed mental illness and is in recovery. So it's interesting because I didn't go to college. I went to cosmetology school right out of high school. And so I got sick with agoraphobia. And we can go into that whenever you want to, but I got sick with agoraphobia. And when I was kind of on this journey of, I've got to get better or, you know, I'm gonna die from this or I'm gonna die trying. I called NAMI and I just happened to see a commercial for NAMI and I called them and I asked them if they had any resources for someone with agoraphobia, which is the fear of open spaces. So I couldn't leave my home. But I thought, is there something I can do from here that would give me sort of a purpose? And when I called, they did not know what agoraphobia was. - Oh my goodness. - The local chapter. So I knew right then and there that that was an organization that I wanted to work for. So it kind of really catapulted me into this finding a purpose for what I was going through. And so started off when I got better volunteering and I raised about $10,000 for the suicide prevention event that they had and then was hired for the marketing director. - Yeah, I was reading your, I don't know what you had written it for, but on your LinkedIn, I saw a couple paragraphs story about your agoraphobia and how that started and well, not how it started that you were dealing with it and you couldn't even go outside for the longest time and you felt like you're wasting your life away. And you said it hit you kind of out of nowhere. What was that like? - Well, it's weird because I have a family history of mental illness, but nobody really talked about it at all. So my grandfather had bipolar disorder and I did not know that. I just knew that he would go off to the hospital and he would come back with a buzz haircut. And I thought, that's weird. Nobody else I know goes to the hospital and he comes back with a buzz haircut. And so my mom would say, oh, well, he just leave him be, you know, when he would get home, he doesn't feel good. And I could, I remember him crying a lot. And so I just never really registered with me until I started getting sick and it was weird because I would take my daughter to kindergarten and in that car line, I would start to freak out. And I didn't know it was a panic attack at the time. I thought I was having a heart attack and I just started having these attacks every time. And so then I got to the point where I would avoid the car line. And then I had one at Walmart and I avoided Walmart. And so I finally talked to my grandfather and him and I were really close. And I said, you know, why did you have to go to the hospital all the time? Like what was wrong with you? I feel like I'm going crazy, absolutely crazy. And so that's when he told me that he had bipolar disorder and that's why, you know, he would go to council of Iowa to the mental hospital. And he had shock therapy treatment and they would shave his head before. And so that's when I started putting things together. And so I really found what I know now was peer support with my grandfather. So it was someone with the lived experience telling me firsthand, you know, what had happened and not being ashamed or embarrassed to tell me. And so I really became vulnerable with him. It got to the point where I started avoiding every single thing because I would have these attacks which I found out from him was a panic attack. So yeah, I ended up 14 years of my life where I did not leave my house at all. And it got so bad that I couldn't go outside. And so I had, you know, I have my kids and so it was really difficult with my children because obviously I can't go to the doctor with them. I can't go to their sports events. My daughter was Miss Springfield at the time. I couldn't go to our pageants. But we had a house that had a courtyard. And so my husband would play movies out there and I could watch from the window and the kids could sit out in the courtyard. And I didn't want them to feel like because I was homebound that they had to be, you know? So we did things as a family. We just did them very differently. And, you know, the kids' friends would come over and I know that they had to feel like, "Oh my gosh, my mom's this weirdo." And so I tried to be the best as I could. You know, I was obviously a housewife 'cause I couldn't leave. I tried the best that I could to make things normal, but I think as a mother you start to worry that someone's gonna take your kids, you know? So it was just added on anxiety. So then I got to the point where it was so bad that I would, my husband at the time, I would call him at work and he would leave the phone on speaker on his desk and I'd press numbers if I started to have an attack. And he would hear it and, you know, he would talk me through it or he would come home. And I got sick of that, you know? I got sick of being a burden to everybody. I felt like I was like living in a snow globe and everybody else was living their life and I wasn't. So one morning I had told my husband, I said, "I'm not gonna call you today. "You know, I'll be fine." And I had already made peace with the fact that I was gonna end my life, you know, that day. And I had told my kids goodbye, didn't, you know, have a great day at school or remember I always love you, you know, things like that, nothing to allude to the fact that that was gonna be the day. And then when everyone left, I ended up, I mean, I don't know how in-depth you want me to get about this. - As far as you would like to get it. - Yeah, I'm pretty honest. But I ended up (beep) my rest setting. And my husband knew something was off and came home and, you know, we went through that whole process with the hospital mental health. And he said to me, "You have got to do something about this." I had, at that point, had lost five, no, four family members to suicide. I thought then at that point, I'm either gonna die from this or I'm gonna die trying. So that is kind of the catalyst of also what got me thinking, "Okay, I've gotta do something about this." So I was afraid to take medication. I was afraid of the side effects. I was afraid that if I took it, I would have to leave and go to the hospital. So my doctor really, he was wonderful talking to me on the phone and he said, "Have you read the side effects?" And I said, "Yeah." And he said, "Okay, well, what are you afraid of?" And I said, "Well, the shortness of breath." You know, I was saying all of these things that were on there and he said, "You already have that." What you're having from an untreated mental illness is way worse than this medication's gonna be. And that's when my mind really took a shift. So, you know, I'm not saying everyone needs to be on medication, but I obviously had a chemical imbalance because I could not think straight. Everything I thought was gonna kill me. If I went outside, that was gonna kill me. I mean, that's not rational thinking. So that's when I started just little things like licking the medication that they gave me 'cause I thought if I'm having a reaction, it's not gonna be so bad 'cause I'm just licking it. But then maybe I'll see if it does something to me. Two, when I finally just started taking the medication and man, it was like the cobwebs just got burned out of my head. I could think clearly, I didn't have that. What a thinking, I didn't have the intrusive thoughts. And then I started little by little, getting out of the house. - How did you once you come out of that, how do you start talking to them about what it is you're dealing with? 'Cause that's something I feel like I struggle with. I have major depressive disorder and generalized anxiety disorder that I've been on medication for years and years now. And sometimes it kinda helps, but most of the time, I just have to find a way to get through it. And so sometimes I don't know how to really talk to her about it. She's been, and since me and my ex got a divorce, she's been in kind of some therapy stuff through Burl at her school. So she knows the words, but I don't know if she understands exactly what depression is and what an anxiety disorder is. And most of the time, I can almost call myself a functioning alcoholic, I'm a functioning depressive person. - All right. - And so sometimes I can hide it or just go through the motions and stuff, but I'll never forget at one of my lowest points and she was real little at the time. I remember her saying, I haven't seen you smile in a long time. - Oh. - And that hit so hard. - Oh, yes. - And I was just like, oh, it's a tough time right now. I did not know what to say to that. How did you discuss things with your kids? - Well, I think sometimes we get caught up in all of the what's right and what words to use and what not words, what words not to use. And I think for me, I just, we know our kids the best, right? And don't get caught up on, am I gonna damage them by telling them something that maybe, I think just being honest, transparency is so important with your kids. And that was the biggest disservice that was done to me as a child, because when I started getting sick, I was ashamed. I was afraid, I was like, oh my gosh, I don't wanna talk about this. And so my grandfather had that honest discussion with me as uncomfortable as it was and sad as it was. It gave me the kind of autonomy to be able to talk about what I had without shame to him. So there's still people, even me working in the mental health field, there's still people that even in mental health make me feel shameful for what I have, because we have a lot of people that are sit behind the desk but don't have the lived experience. And so it's embarrassing sometimes, or you think that they're not gonna think you're a professional if you disclose certain things. So I think it's important with your kids to lay the groundwork right off the bat and explain to them about emotions. My parents didn't talk about emotions and making them feel safe, because then I think that they feel more comfortable coming to you and just being 100% raw and saying, this is how I'm feeling. And also it gives them a better understanding of what you're going through. It teaches empathy and love and concern and grace and all of those things that come with being a great human. So I think just changing your mindset and looking at it as I'm giving them the tools that they're gonna need in case they have this, because we know that sometimes it is hereditary, or that someone that they love has this. So you're teaching the next generation to kind of handle things differently than maybe you and I were raised to deal with it. But I think just being vulnerable is the most authentic gift that you can give your kids, no matter how ugly it looks. And we're supposed to be the ones I know with my parents, I never thought that they could do any wrong or that they were so stern and all of these things. And I think once I realized that adults are human, it really made me feel like I could be more honest with myself and others. - It wasn't a mental health discussion, but I'll never forget a peer in the journalism industry. I was talking to her and I had taken on a new role. I wasn't a writer anymore, I was trying to raise funds. And she said to me, 'cause I was just like, I mean, I'm a writer and I know how to explain like what it is we do and why I feel it's important, but I do not know what I'm doing in this role. And she goes, "Nobody knows what the hell you're doing." - See. - Like, "Oh." - Thank God, right? - Yeah, yeah. And at that point, I was just like, I felt yeah, free like that, oh, I'll just go do it the way that I feel is best. And I think that's something that's super important with the peer-to-peer groups here at NAMI. I would sit there and the first time I went in and I purposefully, I kind of looked around the room and decided, okay, they're gonna start over here. I'm gonna go way over here. So I'm one of the last ones to talk. And as I'm listening, everyone had different problems, but it was like, oh, we're all in this together. All of us are really struggling and that's okay. We're just trying to find, sometimes there may not even be a way out. It's just a way to live with it sometimes, I think. - For sure. - And that was, it's kind of scary on one hand, but in the other, it's like, oh, if everybody else is doing this and I can do this as well. - Yeah, I mean, there's so many people that are dealing with it, but don't talk about it. And that's the sad part is a lot of people, the stigma causes that or they stigmatize themselves. I mean, I still do it. I still do it. I'm in a leadership program right now and I'm a little afraid on how much I wanna disclose because I'm afraid people will look at me differently. But we're getting ready to have something come up where I'm going to share my story. And so I finally got to the point again, like you, where you think, okay, I can either take the plunge and be authentic and see who, because we know it's one in five or one in three. I mean, the numbers change all the time, but that have a mental health diagnosis or know someone that has it. So I think what I've noticed is when you take that plunge and you say that you really get people to open up to you and say, oh my gosh, I have the same thing or what you said I really understood because my mom's going through that or my dad. And so more times than not, I think that we find people that really, you kind of open the door for them to be vulnerable. - Yeah, I think too, especially people who struggle and seemingly have their shit together. You know, or working or whatever, you know, any sort of success whatsoever, I think it's important to also, you know, I look at some of the athletes that have raised their hands and said, you know, I struggle with this. And then sometimes they sit out a game and you're like, oh my God, like a dude's got millions and millions of dollars. And he's still, he's still struggling, but also he was able to get to that point and I feel like that is a huge boost of hope for people. - Yeah. - And so sometimes, yeah, when I was sitting in those peer support groups, I would be like, I almost didn't wanna share my wins sometimes because I was like, oh my God, everybody that I was sat in here with last week went through more (beep) here, I'm like, hey, I was able to, you know. - I know. - But I feel like it's important at the same time because they're like, you know, the way I did, they look at me and they're like, oh well, he was still able to see some good in his week while he's still, you know, struggling with depression. So that, I think, you know, I always encourage people to go to see a therapist, you know, one on one so they can get some professional feedback on how to handle some things. But I believe in the groups so much as well because of that reason, you know, 'cause sometimes even though I know my therapist has dealt with things in the past, I still see her as somewhere that I'm not. Like she seems like she really seems like she hasn't together, and so I need somebody to be like, no, I haven't fuckin' sucked this last week, real bad. And they, but there's always that, you know, but I was able to, you know, you know, we sit down with you and we watch the basketball game or whatever, you know, the little wins. Yes, it's such a big deal. (upbeat music) - This episode of the Show My Scars podcast is brought to you by Two Oddballs Creative. Do you have a business with a great service or product but it seems like people can't find you online? It may be that your SEO is not on point. Luckily, the Oddballs have search engine optimization experts that can help make tweaks to your website or create content to help your website be found by search engines easier. If you're interested in climbing up Google's rankings, give them a call at 417-986-6332 or go to twooddballs.com. That's the number two, oddballs.com. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - In your story, you know, you found medication but what were some of the other things 'cause I suffer from panic attacks too and sometimes I can feel them coming on very early where I feel like and I know because sometimes I've been able to stop them in their tracks but what are some of the coping strategies that you found helpful? - Well, so this is super important because I will have people that have come to me and says my medication's not working. I was so lucky that my medication worked. I mean, the first one I took, so many people are not that lucky and it's just awful but I always say pick three things and your three things do not have to look anything like mine. I was born and raised Catholic, third generation Roman Catholic. So I went to Catholic school so I knew what to expect at church 'cause it's very the same, it's very structured. So I went back to church because I'm like, I've got to get it in a routine and that was my routine because I didn't work, you know, I couldn't work at the time and then I started working out. So those, you know, my medication, I went to therapy, going back to church, my faith and, you know, working out. Those were my three things. So I think it's super important not to just depend on medication, you have to, like you say, find other coping skills. So what I found was redirecting my thoughts, which is super hard when you're in the throes of a panic attack, but you have to make yourself do it because what I found in talking with so many therapists and doctors is that your brain kind of forms these pathways of that negative thinking. And so naturally, you start thinking the worst. Once you redirect your thought process, you start building different pathways in your brain and you don't go down the old ones so much. So for me, I would clean like obsessively and people would say, oh my gosh, she's a germaphobe and she's so far, it wasn't about that, it was about getting my mind on something else. So whatever that is, if you can try and read, if you can try and work out, if cleaning, something to try and get that other part of your brain focusing on something else. And I still have, will have panic attacks, breakthrough panic attacks. I mean, especially when I fly. So I will have to take a little something to kind of take the edge off and I don't depend on it. In my everyday life, I just know that, okay, I'm probably going to have a symptom of my depression. So I need to take, get ahead of it. Like, you know, if you know you're gonna have a headache, if you've ate something that's a trigger like MSG and you're like, well, I better take an Advil. That's kind of the situation with me that I'll use that rescue medication. But I think most importantly, I mean, when you're depressed, you don't want to work out. You don't feel like working out, you're tired. You don't want to get on a damn treadmill. You don't want to do any of that. But the natural serotonin boost that you get from that, it really does help. And I think once you start doing it, you feel better. Now obviously I've fallen off the wagon on the workout thing. So I'm not like saying, you know, I work out all the time, but I'm saying it does help. I think also something that was really bad for me was reading a lot of self-help books. Because then I started thinking, oh gosh, I don't have this, but what if I do get it? Or, you know, this person talked about how they hyperventilated all the time. Oh my gosh, what if I start hyperventilating? Don't overdo it on that stuff. I think it's good to get some knowledge and read about certain things, but don't go obsessing over it. I think that we all, when we start to get sick, go right to WebMD, you know, and put our symptoms in. And then by the end of it, you think you have some incurable disease. It's the same with anxiety and depression. I mean, you do that, you're going to start giving your, thinking that you're going to have these things. So I think that that's really dangerous. So I think just redirecting your thought processes, talking with someone that has a lived experience, because sometimes they can tell you what's worked for them. I'll tell you one thing. I had a friend that was kind of in the same boat with me with agoraphobia, and I was progressing a little bit faster than he was. And so then him and I were still talking and he was really in a bad spot, and it was bringing me like back to getting sick again. So I think knowing boundaries, healthy boundaries, also helping other people is really healing. So the things that I was learning, I would tell this friend of mine, "Hey, listen, let's not talk about that stuff because it's just going to make it worse. Let's talk about the good stuff." So I think having kind of an accountability partner that's been there can be helpful as long as you have boundaries. - I find it funny you talk about the working out. That's something that was helpful for me in the beginning. And then I moved and so I kind of fell off the wagon, like you said, and here recently, that's been a huge struggle of mine going in there. And I'll start, but it's so crazy how physical depression can be. - Oh my gosh, I know. And it just like slams the brakes on all my motivation. But one thing that's been helpful for me is understanding that not every workout has to be just knocked out of the floor. - No. - If you just start going through the motions, it never fails, like I'll go in there. I'm like, I'm giving you 30 minutes. And if I don't feel better in 30 minutes, but it's somewhere around that 15 to 20 minute mark, I start feeling better and then I'll go ahead and go for an hour or something like that. But it's just someone told me one time, just tie your shoes or something like that. And for me, I was like, at the time I lived in an apartment, I was like, well, I also have to go down some stairs, walk across the parking lot. And he was like, just get there. And that was, it's so simple, but that walking through the door and getting in there, I'm like, well, what are you gonna do, turn all the way around and walk all the way back? And so I'd start working out. So that would be my tip is just like get started and just give yourself that short period of time to overcome. - I think two things for that. You know, I think why it's so hard for us and people will look at people with depression and say we're lazy or we're not motivated or all of these things, but what people don't understand is we, if our brains showed on the outside like the workout we do in our brains, the overthinking, the all of this, we would be so buff and so trim and look so good because that's what makes it difficult to do, even like you say tying your shoe or something sometimes to get the motivation to do it because we're so bombarded with all this stuff in our mind. And it's difficult to even get to that first step. And it seems so silly like celebrating the small victories, but for us, that's a big victory. And you shouldn't feel silly that, oh, okay. Wow, I tied my shoe and got out of the house. I mean, no, that's huge for people like us. And you're right when you say about, you know, mental becomes physical, I had a therapist one time that she was wonderful. And she said, close your eyes. And she said, think of the most sour thing you can think of and focus on it for three minutes, the most sour thing you can eat. And so we sat there and I thought, this is stupid, you know, and she said, tell me what is physically happening to you. And I was like, well, my mouth's watering 'cause I'm thinking of a sour patch kid and my mouth. And she said, that is how powerful your brain is. When you think of something and over and over and over, it manifests into a physical form. So that's when, too, I kind of learned, okay, what I focus on expands. The more I think about this bad stuff, the more physically it's starting to affect me. What happens if I try and switch that mindset and think, it's gonna be a great day. It's gonna be so great, even though I don't believe it. You know, I'm retraining my thought process and it really got my mind thinking that, okay, things can be good and I wasn't noticing so much of the physical symptoms of the attacks. - Yeah, 'cause going in, going into a workout, I'm just like, I'm so tired. I'm already tired, I'm this and it's like all those negative thoughts start just racing in. And I never really thought of it like this, but a coping strategy while I'm working out is to shut those thoughts off. I've started to think, like really focus on the muscle I'm training and feeling it like as intensely as possible, feeling that burn and then almost kind of feeling like, especially if I have a sore muscle, feeling that release while I'm working out. I never really thought about it like that, but yeah, it's almost like retraining my thought in the moment, instead of thinking how tired I am, I'm like, oh, this feels good, you know? I'm starting to feel better and that's, you know, maybe what's helping me get through it in the moment. - I'm sure it is and I think too, you know, sometimes working out can mimic a panic attack. You know, we get out of breath. So we want to avoid that feeling, right? I don't want to have a panic attack and feel like I can't breathe and I'm freaking out and you know, what if I get, do some cardio and I can't catch my breath, you know, and all those things, what if, what if, what if, what if, thinking, I think changing that to, oh my gosh, what if I get a flatter tummy or what if, you know, I start feeling better or what if, you know, the good things and it's so hard for people like us to think that that's not natural for us to think those things. So it feels weird, but once you do it, it really, really helps. - So right after you start getting help with your agoraphobia, how did you make that decision to jump back into a career life? - So obviously when I got better, it did not just happen overnight. I mean, it was grueling therapy, exposure therapy. I mean, all of these things. I mean, I had to work my ass off to get it, you know? I mean, awful. And for 10 steps ahead, I would go 15 backwards. I mean, it was just till I finally got myself into a spot where I could see, I couldn't stay at home anymore. The idle time was dangerous for me. So when I started at NAMI volunteering and seeing people that were like me, survivors of suicide or family members that had someone die by suicide, it gave me the motivation to change the face of mental health because, you know, everyone at that time looked really scary. Like my grandpa that had, you know, his buzz haircut and black circles under his eyes and all of that stuff. And so I think it was just becoming not an obsession, but it was really important to me that I had changed the face of mental health and really found a purpose for my pain. And I felt like, and not to get too, you know, overly religious on this, I really felt like all those times I pleaded with God and was crying and saying, you know, why am I like this? Why am I living my life? Why are you doing this to me? I really feel like had I not have went through what I went through that I could not have done what I'm doing now. I really had to experience the lowest of the low. So when I started working here, I started noticing that there was a lot of people that were unsheltered that had mental health concerns. And, you know, we know now that trauma causes homelessness at times or homelessness causes trauma. So then I started really focusing on that. And I thought, you know, there's so many people, number one, we feel invisible when we have a mental health diagnosis. But then when you're homeless and you have a mental health diagnosis, how invisible do these folks feel, you know? And we all want the same thing as to be loved and understood. And I noticed that this was a demographic that really had kind of the trifecta. So I started going out into homeless camps and meeting with people and talking with them. And what I noticed was it really wasn't about not having a home or living on the streets or drug addiction. It was that need to feel understood. And I got so much love from these folks. And, you know, a lot of my family members quit talking to me when I was sick. They didn't like that I was talking about it. They didn't, they thought I should have gotten better faster. You know, all of these things, a lot of resentment. And I thought, here we have a population that went through basically the same thing I did. Alienation, you know, of community, of family members. You know, some of these folks were diagnosed with a mental health condition and they couldn't get their medication. And so they turned to street drugs because it was more accessible than getting their medication. Or they couldn't get into a psych doctor for a year or six months. And so they were self-medicating. And you really have these people judging this group of individuals. You know, here I am and came from middle class family, but I'm in the same situation as these folks where I couldn't get my medication for a while either because it was so darn expensive. So when society kind of stacks the deck against you, you know, get better, get better, get better, okay, well, while I'm trying to, but I can't get past these barriers. I ended up working with a large group of unsheltered and getting 23 chronically homeless individuals sheltered. And in that process, they were able to get their medications. They were able to get into a doctor, which took some time, but they used our resources in the interim. That's something else that catapulted me to a different level. I don't really remember what your question is, but I'm telling you basically finding a passion. You know, it doesn't matter what you're passionate about just find something and find a purpose for your pain because I guarantee you, if you haven't been taken out of this life yet, it's because you still have one. - Yeah, that's what my original question was, how you made that jump from not even being able to leave your house to leading into a career, especially, I know the, do you say your very first job here was the marketing position? - Well, very first was volunteering and then marketing, but marketing, yeah, you know, that's difficult. You know, exposing yourself to all of that, being out, you know, being the face for an agency, yeah. So that was my very first job here. But then, you know, after some time doing that, then I was miraculously hired for the executive director position and I've held that role for about four or five years now. So not something I would have pictured myself doing years ago, didn't think it was possible. But I think there's, you know, you and I were talking before, there's difficult conversations you have to have with professionals. There's, you've got to be really vulnerable and there's been times that I have shared things and I've had colleagues turn their back on me because they don't want to be associated with someone who has been mentally ill in the past or it's not a good look for them or they don't have as much respect for me. And I'm a very blunt person. I am very blunt. I mean, I think sometimes with people like us that have a mental health condition, we want to just be ourselves in raw because I want to know if you like me now or not. If you don't get it, go ahead and get it out of my life because I'm not going to fake it and I don't need you making it harder for me in my life. So, you know, a lot of people think, oh my gosh, she just, she kind of doesn't hold back and says what she wants. And I think that that's probably, it's not something that I do on purpose, but I think we have been let down so many times. I want to know if you're gonna, if you, if you like me or not, if you don't, let's just establish that right now and we probably aren't going to be good for each other. So, you know, I ended up, my husband left me. We were married, we were high school sweethearts and we were married 26 years. And I don't doubt that, you know, my mental illness really took a toll. Everything was not perfect after I got better. I don't think I could have handled that had I not have gone through what I went through and gotten better. I still have things, you know, that, like I say, flying, that's difficult, but my husband now, I mean, I can remember when him and I started dating, I said here, I need to tell you this. This is what happened to me, this is my history. So just so, you know, and he was wonderful. He was like, you know, my mom deals with that. And so I've been able to help her and he's just, he's just wonderful. So I think you can't go into things expecting. I'm going to do, have this career and things are going to be perfect. You're still going to have challenges. You're still going to have to deal with stuff. The thing is, is now you're better equipped. And I don't want to say, oh, you have to get all these tools and take, take all these classes and do all of this stuff. A lot of it is firsthand knowledge. Like you've seen yourself overcome certain things so you know you can again. - I remember as a middle schooler, my mom found a journal of mine where I was writing about (beep) and I remembered that the whole time. Like it's not something I ever forgot. There was a lot of shame surrounding that. And I suddenly realized, oh, almost immediately I started lying and being like, no, I don't feel like that all the time. And I almost kind of tucked that away where I never thought about it until I was going through. We had just decided to split up. And I remember just how much pain that I was in at that time. And there, you know, I went to a doctor and the first medicine I took gave me, I don't know if you've ever experienced this. I call them brain zaps. Like I've taken some medicine and it literally feels like an electrical current everyone so I'll cross as your brain. And so it kind of made it worse for quite a while. And I remember thinking to myself, you know, I was going to take my daughter over to her moms and just, you know, end it then. And that was when I was like, okay, now I really know that I need to go see if I can't, I'm going to try going to therapy and see what that does for me. And so I kind of did it a little bit backwards as to what you did. I forget where I was going with that. But. - No, that makes sense. I mean, yeah, and I think that's scary as a parent because you think by me being vulnerable is someone going to take my kids. Is someone going to think I'm an unfit parent? Is someone going to think I'm going to do something to my kids? I mean, so it's a very hard fine line that we have to walk and that's unfortunate because being vulnerable sometimes has its consequences, you know, for some people and it makes other people afraid. So I totally get what you're saying, but we're not bad people. In fact, we're the most caring empathetic people. We're not dangerous. You know, that's another misconception is that people that live with a mental health diagnosis are more likely to commit a violent act towards somebody. Well, that's not true. It's actually the reverse. You know, people that live with a mental illness are more likely to have a violent person act upon them because of the stigma associated with it. So, you know, it's just, it's misinformation and it's like I said, stigmatizing ourselves. We do it all the time. You know, I'm not good enough because I have this or I'm never going to be better. I'm a weirdo, you know, there's times where I have caught myself saying, oh my gosh, I'm so crazy. And I'm like, oh, I better not say that, you know? Yeah, you got to really watch. I had actually wasn't even a mental health professional. It was a physical trainer. He caught me saying everything I said after I am was something negative and he was like, you got to quit doing that. And I think he never did tell me, but some of the stuff he was saying was too profound to not be somebody that was dealing with the same things. Yeah. And he was like, really, he's like, I want to give you something to work on this week that has nothing to do with, you know, physical fitness. He's like, I want you to, every time you say I am, I want you to stop and consider what you're about to say because he's like, you're saying it. So there's like that physical sensation of your vocal cords, but then you're also hearing it come back. He was like, so your brain's picking that up two or three different times. Yeah. You're like, so it will, he's like, it doesn't know how to discern from what's, you know, what you really mean and what it's hearing. That makes sense. And that was another little thing that I picked up very early on that has seemed to help a lot. I remember, when I'm having a tough time and like, dude, I'm never going to feel better. I paused for a minute and think about what I felt like in the very beginning, like literally, like constant physical pain from the depression. Constantly, like you'd wake up, I mean, I still kind of wake up in the middle of the night and have a hard time falling back asleep, but there was so many times I'd wake up with so much anxiety. There was no way I was going back to bed. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I know. And I get, you know, I still get at least like six hours of sleep a night and that's a world of difference. So remembering that, and it's been said a million times with like successes and a straight line that, I mean, it's going to go all over the place is also a helpful thing to remind yourself and to be proud of the little improvements that you're able to make. Yeah, I mean, it seems silly, but, you know, and that's what I think too. I get so down sometimes. So I think, gosh, I shouldn't be this hard to live. It should not be hard, this hard, but you're right, it's the little things and nobody knows what's going on, you know, like we were talking before and someone else's brain and it could take one hateful mean thing to send someone just over the edge and I don't mean doing something violent. I mean like thinking to them losing all the progress that they've made, you know, so it's so important language and how we talking, you know, my kids, my daughter got diagnosed with bipolar disorder and this was, you know, a child that was a teenager when I was going through what I was going through and that throws of it that hated me, you know, teenage girls can be super mean. But you throw in a mom who can't do anything or support them and she was, you know, over the top. Then as an adult, she got diagnosed with it. She was having trouble, different medications, the brain's apps, she experienced those, but she kind of went through her own hell and thankfully she had me to fall back on because I had been through it and been very honest and she worked her butt off too to get better and now she's my director of marketing. So she started out here in the same kind of role that I did and to see her make the progress and kind of go through what I've been through has been amazing and she has a whole new outlook on life too because she found her purpose too. I mean, this was a subject that we never wanted to talk about in our family to now we talk about it all the time, so. - That's funny you say that, 'cause yeah, what did I say earlier that I was like, I asked you about how to talk to my daughter about it. I guess I'm gonna have to eventually I got a whole podcast. - Yeah, yeah, you are, just play the podcast for her. - It's funny she does have Apple music and she saw that pop up and that's one thing that keeps me going was that I saw the pride in her eyes like, "Oh my goodness, you have a podcast." I'm like, "Well, anybody can have a podcast." But it was so cute that she did that and if you go to my website, one of the T-shirts that I had made, she models it. - Oh. - On the website. And she's one of my biggest fans. She even texted me last night, asked me what I was doing, I told her I was coming here for an interview. She doesn't know what Nami is, but she was just like, "Ooh." - Oh, I love that. - She's your advocate. - Yeah, it really is. - So you're raising an amazing advocate, not only for her daddy, but for what you've been through. So see you're doing something that you probably didn't even consciously think of, you know, you're raising a child to be her authentic self. And I think that's the best thing as a parent that we can do. - I'm glad to hear you say that 'cause it's, I've kind of went back and not really went back on fourth and I'm being your own self, but that's something that I've never been able to fake. I was talking to somebody yesterday about, he went to the same school that I did and we were talking about old times and people from back then. And it's funny 'cause he was older than me and I remember he was one of the, I started high school football and I'd never really been other than like Lions Club, which is just, you know, coach pitch baseball and stuff. Joining the high school football team almost by accident. And I was so afraid of everybody on there. I was really overweight, didn't have any confidence, but he was one of the people I, for some reason, felt safe around despite the fact he kind of hung out with the cool crowd. And we were talking about some of that stuff and like the clicks and all that. And it's very weird how, you know, I told him, I was like, at some point, I just kind of let it fly. I just started being my goofy self, joking around, messing with people, going from different clicks I didn't belong in and then when they didn't accept me, I was just kind of like, "Well, screw you." And I'd go, you know, "Well, I'm around." - Don't you wish we could be like that now? - That's probably why I'm self-employed. (laughing) - Okay, you continued your legacy. - Yeah, I was just like, "Well, I guess I don't fit anywhere else." But bringing it back to NAMI, what are some of the other resources that you guys have here? - So we have, of course, all of our services are free because we don't want that to be a barrier. So we have all kinds of different support groups and that's on our website. And you don't have to have an appointment, you can just show up because what we know is having an appointment, having an obligation is sometimes what detours some of us with anxiety and depression from following through. So we want you to be able to come as you are, whenever you want, if you want to drop in halfway through, you do that, whatever makes you comfortable because like we said, small victories are great victories in our book. We also do a large amount of case management. So if you come to us and say, "I don't even know where to start," which is where I kind of was too because I had to figure it all out on my own and you have the stuff with your brain going on, it makes it more difficult to, okay, I'm gonna Google and see if this doctor or what this doctor does and we will sit down with a person because obviously you get overwhelmed and we'll sit down with them and say, okay, what do you wanna achieve? What are your goals? We'll help you get into a doctor if that's what you wanna do. If you wanna go to therapy, we'll help you do that. We'll help you do whatever you want to do and advocate for you. So we also have two certified Missouri peer specialists here and that's myself and a colleague of mine here, Jess. We can work one-on-one with individuals for goal setting or whatever you wanna do. If you just wanna sit and cry for an hour, we'll sit there with you for an hour. That's also free. You do have to make an appointment for that. So we have a drop-in center, which is called the Hope Center. So NAMI is a national organization. We have core programs. So we have NAMI basics. We have, it's more of a curricular, a curriculum, sorry. And that's like by the book and you go through and you learn all these great things, family to family, all of these core programs. And those are also listed on our website. But within NAMI, we house the drop-in center, which is a COSP. It's a consumer operated peer support program. So all of us here, like I said, have a diagnosed mental illness. You can come and just sit here and watch TV and be around your peers or get on the computer and do some research or look at our mental health library. We have activities like karaoke, bingo, things that we can do with our peers and not feel judged and just be ourselves. That's also something you can just come and hang out. We're open on Saturdays too. So if you have to work and you just wanna come hang out on a Saturday, you can do that. Kind of think we used to have a warm line. We don't have that anymore. The funding kind of got dropped for that. But our national organizations still does have the warm line. And then we also have events. And so we have our rebranded, what used to be called Illuminating the Darkness, but now it's called our neon night run. So that's what our marketing director handles. That's one of our biggest events. It's a nighttime run and it's all neon, super cool. And we have a lot of activities for that. And that is a paid event. You can run or walk, but it's really interesting because we'll have people that purchase luminaries and we put those out in our luminary garden in memory of someone that they know, or maybe you wanna purchase one for yourself and say by this time next year, "My luminary's not gonna be out there because I'm gonna be good," whatever that looks like. And we have our NAMI walks event, which is in the spring. And that's where you can get a team together. You can design your own shirt if you want. So we have different contests for that. So a lot of advocacy events and things, fundraising events that you can help with. If you're like, "Hey, I wanna help with that run." We're always looking for volunteers for that. So any way that you wanna get involved and I think just to feel included in a group that gets you and we're all family here. And listen, not everybody is successful all the time here, but we celebrate, like you said, the small victories and we're here for everybody. And I think that's what's really important is having a foundational group of individuals that have been there and has your back. So that's what I love about this place. - And how can people reach out? Obviously there's your website, but how I guess you just kind of lay out that contact information where to go. - So on our website, there's a contact us. You can email us. It goes to any of the staff. You can call and ask to speak with myself. I'm the executive director or Jess, who's the Hope Center director or Taylor, who's the marketing director. You can call up here 864-7119 and talk to any of us here. You can just drop in if you're like, I want to see what this place is like before I come. There's no commitment. So I don't want to say before I commit, but sometimes exposing yourself to the environment will get you more used to it. So those are the ways. I mean, it's super simple, really easy. We don't keep records on people unless they ask, hey, can you save that for me? Because I don't want to forget that we called this doctor and they said this or that. I mean, that's the only time that we keep records. And you do have to check in because we do get our funding from the Department of Mental Health. And so they like to see how many folks that we have come in on a monthly basis. But, you know, really other than that, it's just super simple. - And what's the URL for the website? - It's nommyswmo.org. - Okay, I thought so. I just didn't want to say that. - Yeah, yeah. - Well, again, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your story. Yeah, I'm a huge advocate for nommy. I haven't been here in too long, probably I should probably just stop in and have a chat. But yeah, it was one of my first steps. So I definitely wanted to get the word out there about this place. - I appreciate that. Thank you so much because that's the best, you know, having somebody that comes here, that's the best advertising for us is someone that's had a good experience and lets other people know. And, you know, anyone's welcome to volunteer here any day. If they say, hey, I want to show up for four hours and help out, we'd love that. So thank you. And I'm so proud of you. - Oh, thank you so much. - That's amazing. Keep up the hard work. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
Stephanie Robinson spent 14 years of her life stuck inside with agoraphobia before finally taking her life back by trying medication and therapy. She is now the Executive Director of the National Alliance on Mental Illness in the Southwest Missouri area. They are a grassroots, not for profit organization dedicated to providing programs and services to individuals and family members impacted by mental illness. NAMI serves as a drop-in center and offers peer supported groups to manage and help in their recovery.
In this episode, we discuss what it was like for her during the hardest times before she began her recovery, how she got her life back, the resources NAMI offers, and more!
TRIGGER WARNING: Stephanie talks, briefly, about making an attempt to take her own life in the beginning of the episode. I let you know in the intro how to skip past that part, if you wish to do so.
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