(upbeat music) Welcome to Courageous Overcomers, Stories of Hope and Healing. I'm your host, Tanya Sholmut. Here we talk about the hard stuff, trauma, fear, and pain. But let's be honest, so many of us hide from our pain because it's just so hard to face. But here's the truth. We can't heal what we're not willing to face. And so I am just so excited today, everyone, we've got an incredible guest on with us. Betsy Guerra, I met her recently in Nashville at an event and I loved her immediately. There's just so many things about her, but she just felt so welcoming and I felt very uncomfortable at this event and she just welcomed me in. She gave me a book that she had written and we're gonna talk more about this later, but I'm here to tell you, I read that book in two settings because it was just so dynamic. And so I just want our audience, Betsy, I want you to tell them a little bit about yourself. And then we're gonna just get into how God has brought you through so much adversity and you've just done it in a way that's just courageous and it's increased your resiliency. So to share with our audience a little bit about yourself, your family, your husband and your wonderful kids and then we'll dive in. - Hey, let's go. I am really, really excited to be here, Tanya. I was part of this podcast experience. Part of what we were doing in that event, it was bringing this to life. So it's really exciting to me that I get to be a part of it. So thank you, thank you for having me. I am Dr. Betsy Getup, but I love for people to call me Betsy. I have a doctorate in psychology. That's been my background for 20 years. And I am a speaker. I am a, I have a coaching academy. So I'm also a teacher where I have a faith-based coaching academy where I train and certify students on a psycho-spiritual model that allows us to serve in a higher capacity because we're combining psychology with coaching with spirituality and there's just no limits. And that's like, in addition to it being my career, my profession, my business, it's also my ministry. It's the way that I use my God-given gifts to unlock greatness, to ignite faith and to elevate humanity, which is what God brought me to this earth to do. As I think in your case, 'cause you have a very similar ministry, even by doing this podcast and offering such a gift to your audience. And I am a married woman of 20 years. I am obsessed with my husband. I always say that God is my number one and he's a close second. And we have four children together. My oldest is 15, my youngest is 10. So we had four children in five years. And then we got a big TV 'cause my husband's so sexy that he was really resistible. So now we get distracted with TV, just kidding. So my four children, one of them lives in heaven. And it was a result of an accident, right? Like it was completely unexpected. And I have experienced and endured excruciating pain in my life. I'm really devoted to my husband and my children, my family, they're my priority. And I never thought I could be happy again. I never thought you could rise above that, even though I already had my 13 years of experiences as a therapist, I had been doing this work. I understand resilience and courage and psychology and adversity and all the possibilities and coping mechanisms. But I think there's no doctorate, there's no education that can possibly prepare you for certain things in life. And for me, it was the loss of my daughter, but for so many, it's divorce, it's trauma, it's abuse, it's even financial problems or a situation within a relationship with a child, with a partner, with a friend, with a co-worker. And I wanna invite all of the people listening to us today that your pain is your pain and it matters. Many times we compare and we think like, oh yes, but I didn't lose a child so I shouldn't feel this way. And I don't think that's true because pain is pain, pain is an emotion. What causes the pain is what tells us in society, oh yes, it's okay to feel it or not. But the pain that I felt for losing my daughter is the same pain that anybody else feels for having a failure or getting a C in class if it's someone younger or everybody has their own experiences and if you experience the emotion of pain, I guess the first invitation to be courageous in this adversity and to be able to build that resilience is to embrace the emotion and allow and welcome it because feeling is healing. - Right, yes and I've shared that with my audience. We've talked a lot about that saying you can't heal what you don't face and trying very hard not to minimize what pain they're going through versus what my pain was at the moment. And so let me ask you this that during one of your, at the time when you lost Fofi, the hardest moment of that time period, what gave you the courage to keep going? Because that's one of the things that we've been talking a lot about in the last few episodes is about courage and resilience. And I think it takes courage to lean into the pain like you're talking about to face the pain. So share with our audience after you're lost Fofi, like what kept you and please feel free to share with our audience a little bit about losing Fofi and what that was like for your family and then what gave you the courage to keep going? - Okay, so I'll share a little bit about the what happened, which for a long time was actually the worst thing that I was experiencing. It was the how it happened that was tormenting me. And it was the darkness in the pain was how it happened. We had a fairy tale in our home. Like I had my prince charming and we had these beautiful healthy children. And at the time I had three and my son, my youngest was a month old. Fofi was the middle one. Fofi and her older sister, Chi Chi, were the best friends in the world. So we had a lot of activities at home. We have a very family oriented home, very homey, a great backyard. We have pool and trampoline and we had a zipline. And so we did all sorts of things in the backyard and it's Sunday, August 25th, 2013. And we woke up early, we had our moments with our daughters who always welcomed them with a big hug and a big smile. And we went to church and had our time with the Lord. And then we had a barbecue planned in our house 'cause we were about to start construction in the backyard and we wanted to enjoy it one last day in the summer. So we invited people and family over and we're about, like people are starting to get there and my daughter, Fofi, tells me, "Mami, do you care estar donde tu estés?" Which translates to, "Mami, I wanna be where you're at." That was her way of telling me, like, "Come with me to the pool." And sometimes we get busy, you know, catering to people and hosting and cooking and cleaning and we don't necessarily answer. I believe that I speak for myself. And at that moment, I was like, "Okay, yes." So I was prepping something in the kitchen and I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna go with you because you asked." And I'm so grateful I did, right? So we go into the pool and then my husband gets in there too and we're playing our cheerleading game, which was that my oldest would come on my shoulders. Then my second one, Fofi, would go on her shoulders and then my husband would carry the three of us. And then we would like cheer and raise our hands and do all sorts of things. And I remember at some point, I had like Chi Chi on one side, my oldest and Fofi on the other side on the other shoulder. And Fofi was like holding onto my head because she was like a little scared and nervous. And I just, I remember having like so many, I called them holy moments where I just are feeling safe with me and having that memory and we're playing. Then people started getting to my house and we had a lot of friends and a lot of family. Our friends are like family. So it was, we were surrounded by beauty and a whole lot of love. And the cousins, right? Like the kids of my friends were there. So they were playing together in the edge on the edge of the pool. And I was inside the pool while my husband was barbecuing. So I was there with the kids and with other friends. And at some point a friend asks, "Where's Fofi?" And Tanya at that moment, I was like, "Where is she?" Like, you know, it was such a normal question. Like, I just need to like look around and look for her, but something about her question, like I felt it in my core. Like it was, it was like, I just, it was like I knew and my heart started racing. And I'm like, "Where is Fofi?" And I remember feeling all this anxiety and I'm not wanting to feel anxious. And I'm looking at everyone and I can't find her. And it feels like forever, but it was just a couple seconds. And at some point I can't see her until I look right next to me. And there she was, but at the bottom of the pool. And I see her polka dot bathing suit, mini-mouse bathing suit, and I just go into the water and I grab her and I clutch her against my chest and I hold onto her and I'm coming out. And at that moment I'm feeling how like I'm being pushed down the pressure of the water, but I'm wanting to rise. I'm wanting to get out of there. I'm wanting to bring her to the surface. And it was horrid, but I pushed through. And you know what, that was my first moment of courage. That my first moment of courage was to feel that everything was going against me pushing me down. And yet I was still pursuing the going to the surface and bringing her with me. So I brought her out, I put it on the edge of the pool. I had a friend there who was a doctor, a medical doctor in a nearby hospital. So she knew CPR, this is what she did. So she came immediately, she gave her CPR. You know, she spoke to the ambulance in 911. And she had pols, right? Like I remember her saying like she did have pols. And I was at that point, like as soon as she was taken care of physically, I was like, I just need to pray. So I was like, God please, God save her, please save her. God, you know, I'm raising her for you, God please save her. And I was just so sure that he would because my faith wasn't a grain of like a grain of mustard. It was way beyond that. And I was, I just, it was scary, but I had so much faith. I just, I just knew he was going to save her. So, you know, caught 911, the ambulance got there and what felt like five minutes immediately, super fast. Like they came here fast because we have a hospital nearby. I get on the ambulance, I'm very cold, very cold, and I was still wet. And I remember listening to the siren of the ambulance. Like it felt like it was like from afar, but it was right on top of me because I was inside there. And everything is a blur and yet so clear in my body, like, and I'm, we're on the way. And I'm just, I'm just praying and praying because my thought was if I stop praying, got me interpreted as lack of faith. This is all I can do right now, I'm going to do it. So I prayed and I prayed and I got to, we got to the hospital in two minutes and immediately we got into a room and that room was filled with medical professionals who took care of my daughter as if she was their own. Like I felt so supportive. I felt the presence of God there taking care of my daughter. So I just, I just knew that he was going to save her. And at some point I see the doctors are trying and they're not giving up and they're doing all these things and my daughter's body is still and her eyes are closed. And at some point I see a monitor in the room and the monitor had a straight line. And I'm like, oh, what is that? Is that a flat line? Is, you know, is that what that is? And I wasn't sure, I couldn't read it. So I was like, okay, I'm going to change my prayer. Make her heartbeat, Lord. Make her heartbeat, please. Make her heartbeat, make her heartbeat. And I just had so much faith that he would. And I remember having three signs in that process that felt like forever and yet was so fast. The first one was, God, give me something that I can repeat in prayer, like, you know, give me like a mantra and that I can repeat in prayer. So I don't have to think 'cause I couldn't think. I didn't know what else to say. And what came to me is a scripture that is very known and obviously it's a very big part of my life right now. But I wasn't as familiar with it as I am now. So it didn't come from me. And the mantra was, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And I'm like, hell no, that means she's not going to make it. That's like a faith, that's it. So delete, delete, delete. So I'm like, please make her heartbeat, make her heartbeat, Lord, make her heartbeat. And then I had another moment. And that was a vision of my sister. My sister has severe mental retardation and, you know, epilepsy and all sorts of, you know, illnesses or diagnosis. And she was born normal, but she had rebellion, that's sick, very high fever, convulsions. And then, you know, she went on a coma and had brain damage as a result of all of that. And that resulted in all these situations. And I remember when I started having children, I just, I begged God to send me healthy children. Because while I see the gifts of having a sister with special needs, it's hard, it's hard. So I had prayed for health, not because there's anything wrong with kids who have special needs because God knows my, you know, we always say that my sister is an angel. She's saying she's, you know, she's goodness. She's perfection. And it's hard. And I was hoping for less hard. So I had that image of my sister and the message I received was, Betsy, you know, I could save her, but she may not be the forfy, you know. And I remember thinking, I don't care. I don't care. Just save her. I'm gonna love her no matter what. Please God save her. Make her heart be, make her heart beat. And then the third moment I had was at some point, I was praying, make her heart be, please do this. Please do that. Like save her. I was telling God what to do. And that evolved into, I want this God, make her heart beat, but let it be your will. And I did not mean to say that because I didn't want it to be anything that wasn't my will. If his will, mine then yes, okay, let it be your will. But it was, there was a moment of surrender that came from something bigger than Betsy. And at that moment, my husband, I'm usually the hopeless romantic, the dreamer, my husband's the one that brings me down to earth. And he reminds me to like walk on, you know, I'm always walking in clouds. I'm up. And at some point he was like, he was talking to her and he was like, you know, come on Fofi, you're strong. You got this. I mean, that you got this. And he looked at me. He's like, the doctors are trying something different. This is going to work. Now this is going to work. And I remember thinking at that moment or not thinking, I remember feeling more pain at that moment for the hope that my husband had. Like I was, I was, I was heartbroken by his hope because there was a knowing inside of me that she wasn't going to be. And at that moment, I fell on my knees and I started singing to myself a song that I used to sing to a next boyfriend who was going through difficult times. And it was a song of hope. And it says something like, you know, the night will pass with its terror and soon the light will illuminate and shine through your heart. So keep on, keep on singing, you know, this celestial song, like kind of like just remaining hope because this too shall pass. So I started singing that to myself and I just, I just knew. And all of those three moments were bigger than me. They, like I didn't, I didn't reduce those moments. So soon after doctors told me, I guess, that they're gays or the way they looked at me. I'm not even sure if they said words, but they definitely expressed a lot. You know, something to the lines of there's nothing else we can do and they left the room. And the, my greatest moment of courage early on was, you know, after that happened and we spent some time with her, my husband asked to be left alone with her. And he, he told her what he would have told her on different moments of her life, like graduations, wedding, 15s, we celebrate the Hispanics. So we celebrate the 15s instead of sweet 16. He had like a moment with her. I thought it was so beautiful that he was inspired to do that because who thinks about that, right? At that moment, but it was so healing and beautiful. And then we left without our daughter. You know, like when you go into a hospital with a family member with a loved one, you're expecting to leave with them. So leaving her felt like abandoning her. And it was, it was excruciating. And then, you know, the media was waiting for us to a police officer had the grace to take us home so that we wouldn't be bothered and interrogated. And, you know, and that night, when I was trying to go to sleep, my husband and I decided to go to sleep in her room, which she shared with our oldest daughter. And I guess I finally managed to fall asleep. And the next thing I know is I am on the floor of her bathroom. They shared a bathroom in that room. And I am rocking back and forth like a deranged woman wanting to pull my head off. Like literally my hands are like claws in my head. I'm trying to like rip off my head because the thoughts of reality were so unbearable and so dark. And so I just, I couldn't. And for the first time in my life, I had been a psychologist for 13 years already. For the first time in my life, I understood why people go crazy. Because I'm like, oh my gosh, when reality is unbearable, the next right thing, at least that's what it feels like to the brain who's trying to keep a safe and alive, is to disconnect from reality. Just just rip your head off, if not literally and physically, then do it by disconnecting. - Well, along those lines, we only have a few minutes left. I hate that we're gonna have to, not spend as much time as I want, but that's the great thing about this, is you get to come back and you get to share so much because you have so many nuggets. But you talk about in your book and I want to encourage everybody to buy this book. I love it. It's called "Hurt to Hope." The number two, "Hurt the Number Two Hope." You can get it on Amazon. It's an incredible book. But you talk about, you had dark days. You had days of depression. You had these days where you're talking about wanting to escape reality. And what advice would you give to someone who feels like they can't overcome their current struggles? They're in the same place, right? That whether they've lost a child, a spouse, or they're just working through any kind of adversity, what advice would you give to them in this instance in their life? - I would say that's why I titled my book "Hurt to Hope." I would say, find the hope. And for me, for me had a lot to do with faith. I, faith was a big coping mechanism and resource that I had access to. And I understand that not everybody has that. But faith allowed me to have the hope that I wasn't in my destination yet. And if you struggle with faith or you haven't been raised in the faith and you're not a believer, that's okay. 'Cause all of us have access to faith. I would love to gift you my hope by sharing with you that there's a promise that from God, what I call God, but it's also a promise from the universe. If God is not something you resonate with, it's a universal promise. It's not just a God-viblical thing. And that promise is that all things work for the good of those who seek that hope. And I want you to trust and believe, and if we don't believe it wholeheartedly, just borrow it from me. Borrow this belief, 'cause I do. I believe it wholeheartedly. And at this point, I don't need to believe it because I know it. I'm a testament of it. I have experienced it so I know it. This is a fact. This is not even a belief, okay? So borrow it from me if you are having a hard time experiencing it or trusting it. And the belief that I would like for you to trust is that if you are in pain, you haven't arrived. Because pain is the path, never the destination. So if you're in adversity, if you're in suffering, if you're in pain, you haven't arrived at your destination. You're only in the path. And the whole purpose of the path is to train you, to prepare you, to equip you for that big greatness and joy and peace that is the destination. And yes, people who believe in God and who have a certain religious formation may see that destination as heaven. - Yes, I'm not that person, 100% that person. And I just want non-believers to know this is true for them too. Like you can reach heaven too. Heaven is not a place that you go to when you die and there's a bouncer there called St. Peter and he decides if you're in or out. Like heaven is a state of being. Heaven is a state of grace, of joy, of peace. That peace and joy that surpasses all understanding. So if you are not there, if you're not home or joy and peace live, then you haven't arrived. And that is hope, Tanya. Hope is knowing that even when I am hurting deeply, maybe at the corner, when I go around the corner, maybe that's where the finish line is. Maybe that's where joy awaits, where peace awaits, where smiling again is waiting for me. And hope, hope. So courage would be having the strength, the determination to choose hope. Because some things in life are not our fault. I moved to a house with a pool. I put her in survival classes. I put her in swimming classes right after I was, I was a psycho mom who was always there with her kids. I was right there next to her. And this still happened. We don't have control over things. And I truly, wholeheartedly believe today that that was in my fault. - Right, yeah. But it took you-- - My responsibility on it. - Right, there was a journey of getting there. I think that this is a conversation for another time, but even in those situations where things happen to us that are often beyond our control, right? Like we know my story. I was sexually abused when I was five years old. That was beyond my control, that there's still a shame that goes along with it and the guilt and the journey that's part of that. So we're gonna have to have you back because we're at our time. But I just want our listeners to know that, like what you said, obviously I'm a believer. I believe that putting our faith in Jesus is where so much of the healing is, right? I mean, he is the one, the healer of our faith and of our pains and our wounds. And so I'm gonna have you back because there's just so much more that we can expand on. And I wanna say, some people may not have lost a loved one, a child, but like you said in the beginning, the pain is yours and it's real. And this podcast is meant to highlight people that have overcome adversity, that have hope, that can show light and shine light on the pain. And so as we wrap up, I just want to encourage our listeners to subscribe to courageous overcomers and be part of the community. And then also leave a five star review, it helps us get hope out faster. Share this episode with someone that you know might need to hear it because I guarantee you there's someone out there that needs to hear this today. And then also, if you know of anybody such as a great person like Betsy, that would be a good guest for this show. Please reach out to me at tanya@tanyashellnut.com and let me know about them and do an introduction 'cause I'd love to have more courageous overcomers on the show. And so tune in and next Wednesday, we'll be back same time, same place. And Betsy, thank you so much for being with us today. - Thank you for joining us here on courageous overcomers with Tanya Shellnut. Please remember to follow, like and share this podcast to find out more about Tanya, go to her website at tanyashellnut.com or to ask a question about anything you've heard on today's show. Leave us a five star review and your message or email at tanya@tanyashellnut.com. Remember, that's S-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T. This podcast is produced by Bob Sloane Audio Productions. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
Send us a text What if the pain you're experiencing could lead you to unimaginable strength and resilience? This episode of Courageous Overcomers brings you the raw, inspiring story of Dr. Betsy Guerra, a renowned psychologist and faith-based coach who faced the heartbreaking loss of her daughter, Fofi. With us, she shares her deeply personal journey through grief and healing, challenging the notion that professional training can prepare us for life's most profound tragedies. Betsy reminds us...
