Billy & Lisa in the Morning
Karen Read Trial Recap 7.23.24
The Takono Music and Spirits Festival returns to Centennial Park Saturday, August 3rd from 2 to 10 p.m. And it's free! Live music from the Warren Treaty! Chris Daniels and the Kings is Cally and More! Enjoy a Spirits Competition! Kid Zone and Fireworks presented by Oxy and the City of Dakono! Admission and parking are free! The Dakono Music and Spirits Festival brought to you by Breckenrich Brewery and City of Dakono! Go to thecityofdakono.com for more information! Well, we're back and so is the Karen Reed trial and Katherine Loftus is in studio and a couple of things have happened in the last couple of minutes. A, Winnie knocked over her entire cup of coffee. I'm sorry! What am I gonna do? I was not early this morning. We can make you another one. And B, you just smashed yourself in the face with your headphones. So welcome back, Katherine Loftus! Move it a little slow this morning. Two weeks in Maine, I'll do that to you. At least in Donovan and Winnie have a dozen questions, but I'll just ask one simple question. Why are they wasting money on another trial? Well, the Commonwealth thinks she did it. So, they're going to go forward. The question is, what are they going to go forward on which charges? Because, you know, that's the subject of the motion dismissed that we're going to have on August 9th. You know, as we've talked about, I've always been of the persuasion that if they're going to retry it, they should drop the-- Right, or she was overcharged. And, you know, it just, it feels a little bit to me like everybody is so entrenched in their sides that just the DA's office is just going to double down and keep the second degree. They should just do things they will, really. I just, they shouldn't. They shouldn't. At least gonna have a different prosecutor because let's face it, that guy really needs a different job. The really interesting thing is, since we didn't have anybody yesterday, my guess is we might not. It might just be the same to Adam Lally as well. I think it's Laura McLaughlin. And for as much as we all from the outside looking in, didn't love the way he presented the case, what we're now learning, though, is that at least on some of the charges, they leaned more towards the Commonwealth. On the manslaughter, they bought what the Commonwealth was selling, the majority of them. So, he was doing something right. Maybe it was not effective to the public watching it, but it was different in, in court to the jury. Can you explain Marty Weinberg? He's a new attorney that's been introduced into the case. What will his role be? So, he's come in for the limited purpose of filing the motions to dismiss. So, they've filed the defense has filed the to dismiss counts one, which is the second degree matter as well as counts three, which is the leave in the scene of death. And basically, what they have said is we have information from certain jurors that they came to unanimous decision. Now, Marty Weinberg is a criminal defense attorney, and he also does appeal. So, he's brought in, basically, for the purpose to prong. One, you almost have to a pellet attorneys kind of throw the trial counsel under the bus. You know, there were issues they didn't objective to the mistrial at the time. They didn't ask for the jury to be pulled. So, things that Marty Weinberg and his motion is asking for now. And secondary to that, both David Unetti and Alan Jackson, in a way, have become witnesses because they've had first-hand communications with the jurors. So, it's difficult for them, themselves, to argue to the judge the information they've received. You basically bring in somebody else, you submit the affidavit from Alan Jackson to David Unetti, and then Marty Weinberg argues. But he, I don't think he'll be staying on the case for the long term. But do you think that this has merit? Do you think that they'll be able to get one of these thrown out or two? I don't legally. And the difficult thing, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of, I think, frustration about this because, realistically, if they came to a decision, if they would 12 and 0 on anything, she should have gotten that verdict. They should have come back and relayed that to the court, and then the judge could have taken those two verdicts and declared a mistrial. The problem with trying to come in on the back end and do this is that we really don't want situations where we're inquiring of Jerry's later, where we're bringing them back and saying, "What were you really thinking in there? Were you, you know, 12 always?" You have to think about it the other way. What if they were 12 and 0? Guilty on the murder, and they didn't come back because it was split on the others. So, the precedent that it sets is not one, you know, that we want to, and I don't think that the law is on this side. I do think that the Commonwealth should just drop the second degree. But like I said, I don't think that they're going to do that. So, what's Karen Reed been doing during the long breaks? You go to the Hamptons or something? I always wonder, you know, all of a sudden, she's off the map. Well, you know, it is funny, you know, because there was so many sightings, and there was so much publicity, and it has, you know, died down a little bit. We haven't seen where she's been. I mean, I've been on vacation, so maybe they'll be inside inside. I heard she was at J.Lo's birthday party. She fell in her house. That's all we know, right? Yeah, right. Oh, yeah, the house is listed. Yeah, the house is listed. And now, I mean, the January date, it's not until January 27th is the next trial date. Which we love. I know, I mean, it's in winter, so we're not, we don't want much going on. Yeah. Well, and you know what the nice thing is, too, is because if it is going to be a long trial, again, the court has to think about, she talked yesterday about, she knows whatever decision is going to be made on the motion dismiss, one of the parties is going to appeal it. So, she's allowing for the time for the appeal process to go, you know, to at least be started. And we have Thanksgiving, we have Christmas, so you don't want to have a piano jars then. Do you think that this Netflix series that was announced will wait until the second trial is over? I'm guessing no. I don't know. I feel like they'll probably come out mostly just because there's so much hype about it. Yeah. I feel like maybe somebody wants to get in on the front end of it, but it's hard to know, you know, it's hard to know. Well, they were smart. They would do one now and then the other one. And then the right in the end. And they said it was I think they said it was like about the lead up up to, right? So it'll be interesting kind of the perspective that they take. So we still see the pink and the blue people outside the courthouse. It's going to be very cold out in January. You know, which could limit your question. Yeah. You know, maybe somebody should do some like limited edition. I mean, it's pretty cold in January, especially five o'clock in the morning. Yeah, we'll see how dedicated they really are. Yeah. That's a good question, Billy. Well, you know what? It's a good question. And we're coming up on topic time. Okay, you want to go talk back to your phone first before we get the topics. I just want to mention we had someone call in she didn't want to stay on hold. She got a $50 ticket for beeping at the can read supporters. Is that common? Like, is that surprising? Yeah, I would like to see what the citation was disturbing the piece. She got yesterday. Well, I don't know if it was yesterday or during the trial, but she she talked to Riley said that she caught a $50 ticket for beeping at the can read protesters. Wow. I'm going to have to walk into that a little over zealous policing. What else they're going to do? Everybody's yelling and screaming at each other out there. Justin Tarkback's a comment about Karen Reed. She looked so serious yesterday and a bit worn down. It's kind of crazy that this is all going to happen all over again. I mean, it's a lot for a person to handle. Yeah, I think it's, you know, I probably most people noted that she appeared much more serious yesterday and more somber. And, you know, I think it's not only probably, you know, you kind of on the high, what you're in the midst of the trial, there's a lot of, you have this constant adrenaline running. And then when you don't really have the outcome that you expected it, and now you know, you have to go through it all again. And it's not for another five months. That way, as on a person's dream. What do you think inside her brain when the verdict was ready? Do you think she was surprised at the mistrial? I think that they were at that point, the fact once they came back with the three, the three notes, I think they all knew and expected there was going to be a mistrial. I think when they closed, I think the defense probably thought that they were going to get not guilty as across the board. So I think it didn't appear outwardly as disappointment. But I imagine they were probably disappointed. Do you think that this trial in late January will last as long as the previous one? I hope not least. Well, that all goes to whether the Commonwealth decides to go on the second-degree run-up, because again, most of what we heard went to that charge. All you have to prove it theoretically, if they were to dismiss on now, pross, the murder charge, they don't have to prove intent. They don't have to get into her state of mind. All they have to prove for the manslaughter is that she was reckless and that she was intoxicated. So you actually can skim down the case quite a bit. So it's really going to ride on what the Commonwealth decides to move forward. Do you think there'll be as much national attention on this story? It's genuine. It's hard to know. Probably. I get the feeling that it might be even more divisive, because as you were talking about, I feel that both sides have come out a little bit stronger. There were more people on the O'Keefe side and being vocal. So I think that we'll probably get just as much attention the second time around. Hey, is anything ever come of that woman that basically attacked Turtle Boy? Do you remember that scene on the street? Oh, Jill Daniels. I don't know. She was charged. I actually heard something happened in the Cape a few days ago at a restaurant. Oh, I heard those things. Oh, really? Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'll give the room as to what I said. Oh, I'll take it. Allegedly. She was down in the Cape with her boy. This is Winnie TMZ. Who is down on the Cape? Jill Daniels, who is the sister of Julie Ginn, the same woman, who is married to Chris Albert. They are Colin, Colin Albert's parents. So she's essentially Colin Albert's aunt. Yeah. She's also a friend of the Procter. So she's all in this, you know, she was down the Cape. And I guess someone recognized her down at a restaurant with her boyfriend. They exchanged words. She called the manager of the restaurant old hag. And then she used a very, very bad word you use towards women to two of the waitresses. And there was a lot, and there was a lot of witnesses to this. So she's a brawler. And then it happened. She seems to be a little melty. Yeah, she should look into the UFC or something or a lot of it. Allegedly. We do have an anonymous on the phone. It's the lady that had the ticket to the beating so we can get on the horn again. Yeah. Okay, anonymous. What's your story? You really got a ticket for beeping? Yes. Back in April, when I drove by the courthouse, there really wasn't protesters out there. And I beat the horn. And after I left out, I was at a red light, I got pulled over. And I said, why am I getting pulled over? He said, I'm the real use of the horn. You can't be in front of the courthouse. So I said, okay, he gave me a written warning. So that was in April. So that Friday of the verdict reading, I was driving by my daughter, and we passed the courthouse, and we were down by the church where all the Karen, we supported, they were going crazy, we're supporting them. And two weeks later, I have a 55 dollar ticket in my mailbox for, um, I think the same thing, the horn. So it was a happy horn. I was quite that you should appeal that. How do they get approved that you drove? Right. He was a driver. There was a happy horn, not an angry horn. To do with a happy home. And the crowd appreciated it. Um, and to appeal the ticket, it would cost me $25 just to appeal it. I know. That's how they get it. If it's a moving violation, appeal it, because you don't want it on your record. Trust me. Yeah, I want to appeal it. And by the way, anonymous, we do have a lawyer in house. So that's the problem is they get you with the fees from the appeal. So a lot of people do what you are thinking is that, oh, it's not even worth it to put in the appeal. But I think that sounds pretty outrageous. I think so. Yeah, I would appeal it. Yeah, I would fight it. Yeah. Right? Justin would have got there. Yeah, 100 percent. Just for the principal. Yeah. Hi, Catherine. Do you think that the push back to January will work in the defense's favor in terms of picking another jury because it seems like still a lot of people still know about this case and are still talking about this case. And a lot of the public seems to think that she's innocent. So do you think that that'll work in the defense's favor? I think time will work in everybody's favor a little bit to, you know, let's get through the holidays, have things calm down. I really, I know it's it's difficult, I think, for all of us who are in it to imagine that there are people who aren't paying attention to this. But I was just at a birthday party over the weekend and there were like a handful of people who said, Oh, you know, I know her name, but I'm not paying attention to it at all. So you would actually be surprised. Again, it's going to take more work. It's not a regular jury. You're not going to get, you know, 12 jurors, 16 jurors right away, but you will find them. And I think it will be beneficial to both sides that there's a little bit of time for, you know, kind of hopefully the, you know, I got to tell you, I was on vacation. Everybody was talking about it still. Everybody was the latest on Karen Reed. So when's that coming back? Well, it was back yesterday and now it comes back in January. So what would they do? What would they do on August 9th at that hearing? So August 9th is the motion to dismiss date. So that's attorney Weinberg's going to be arguing that. So that's about whether to dismiss counts one and counts three based on the, you know, the not pulling of the jury. The fact that the jury now says that they were unanimous in some of the verdicts. I think it's likely going to be denied. They'll appeal it, which is why she allowed for kind of a, you know, a stretch of time before the trial begins because she basically wants them to deal with it in the appellate courts before we get to trial. Justin. Good morning. This question is for Catherine about the Netflix documentary. Do you think Karen Flers will try to stop it? Because depending on how it's portrayed, it could really sway your jury. I'm not sure that they have the ability to stop it. I don't know why. What, I mean, what grounds would they have to stop an independent documentary? Because it could sway public opinion. She's right. Right. But I mean, that's part of, think about it this way, part of their defense has been in, you know, putting everything out in the public in an attempt to sway public opinion. So I think that the, the Netflix series or whatever else comes from it is just like adding on to what we already have. I would say the vast majority of this case is being tried in the public already. So I don't know that one documentary along can really sway people one way or the other. I'm still of the persuasion that people really, that everybody has their positions and nothing, nothing's going to change that, you know, no matter what you see. Wow. I have a quick question about the jurors. So we had four or five come forward anonymously. They are saying basically the same thing. Do you feel like that? At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what they're saying because they're just going to go off of what happened with the ruling originally. So do you mean that it doesn't, it doesn't matter what they're saying in terms of like, because they appeal, you know what I mean? So it, in terms of the appeal, you know, in the, like I said at the beginning, it's hard because we want, if they had rendered a verdict, she should have gotten acquitted if they were 12 and all on the second degree and they'll leave in the scene, she should have been acquitted on those. The problem is they didn't tell the judge that they didn't inform any, they didn't even eat. Why didn't they? That's, I mean, that's the question and the problem is we can't create the system now where we go back. When we say, okay, now we're going to bring every back and say, Hey, why didn't you say it? And were you really, you know, was everybody 12 out? Okay. And if you were, let's render the verdict now because now everything's been muddied up by the fact that they are exposed to, you know, media, they know what's happening. They're following the case outside of it. So in January, is it going to be even more difficult to seat an unbiased jury? I don't, you know, I don't think so. I think it will just take time. I think it just takes time to weed through. I think we had 200 to 250 that we went through this time. It took us two weeks to get a jury. It'll probably be the same thing. It's going to be an extensive process, but they'll find a jury. Absolutely. Like you said, there are a lot of people that couldn't have, they didn't have time to follow it. Well, and that's the funny thing. Most people, when the people who don't follow it are like, I just didn't have the time. Right. Yeah. You're probably better on it because it's a lot. Justin, talk back. We're the Karen retrial. It's really interesting because I've only heard about it from listening to you guys on the radio. I literally have no idea what she did or what they think she did. All I know is that there was a car, and her boyfriend was a police officer. So maybe I'm the perfect juror. Yeah, see. Right. You don't have to, you don't, we don't have to find jurors who've never heard of it, just that they haven't been following it. They don't know, you know, most of the information that they can be fair and impartial. So I think that you'd be the perfect juror. Well, for the listeners who are hearing about it for the first time, why don't we take them back? What happened and why? So the allegations are that on the 9th of January 28th into January 29th of 2022, Karen Reed, John O'Keefe, and a number of other people were out drinking at different bars. That the Carmel alleges that they were on their way back to 34th Bay of U Road for a party at the house that John got out of the car at some point and that Karen is alleged to have backed into him, left him to die in the snow. The defense has been that she never hid him, that he in fact went inside the house that he was beaten inside the house and then left, you know, dragged outside and left to die. So it's pretty different theories. Wow. It's a crazy case and it's captured the attention of the country. It's bizarre. It became toward the end of that trial. It became the number one story on national television show. And it's interesting. And that's why I think there might be, you know, a lot, just as much the second time around because there was so much local attention, but it really only started to go national regularly towards the end and once the verdict came in. So it'll be interesting to see what happens in January. Okay. So going forward, what is happening in August now? So August 9th, we have the motions to dismiss. She'll probably rule on those, I would say within a week or two of the hearing so that they can appeal any decision. And then we're going to wait until January 27th. They'll they'll have a status date or a final pre-trial conference. So would you come in on August 10th? Sure. If you don't have me. All right. In the meantime, where can people get you? It's no my objection. TikTok. August 10th is Saturday. So we won't be here. No, we'll come in. We'll come in on a Saturday specifically for this. I'm kidding. The Dacono Music and Spirits Festival returns to Centennial Park, Saturday, August 3rd from 2 to 10 p.m. And it's free live music from the Warren Treaty. Chris Daniels and the Kings is Callie and Moore. Enjoy a spirits competition. Kidzone and fireworks presented by Oxy and the City of Dacono. Admission and parking are free. The Dacono Music and Spirits Festival brought to you by Breckenridge Brewery and City of Dacono. Go to thecityofdacono.com for more information.