[MUSIC] >> Fan morning show here, still Tuesday. Sorry, I checked guys, I tried, I did everything I could. I was like, we can't, what about the other T-Day? Just Thursday, that's good. >> That would have been nice. >> Way closer. >> Technically it's my Thursday gun or nothing, it is. >> Well, you know why I want it to be Thursday? Because I got a little golf plan on Thursday, so yeah, I'm just, let's be honest, there's probably going to be golf happening between now and then as well. But I have it definitively on the schedule, going to see my bud, Daniel, shout out to that guy. >> Nice. >> So yeah, maybe that's why I want to fast forward to then. I don't know how the Blue Jays will feel about fast forwarding because it's not like it's sunshine and rainbows waiting on the other side of the Rays. But generally speaking, that's not been sunshine and rainbows. Start up a series with the Rays tonight at home as we continue to creep, creep, creep towards baseball's trade deadline. And I was thinking about this, it actually started when we were talking about the Tigers last week and just like, hey, let's see how kind of similar position, unfortunately, these two teams find themselves in. Would you rather be the Tigers? I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so. >> I don't think so. >> But there is, that is not as crazy a case to make it here would have been. >> It's not as zero percent chance that somebody might say Detroit, yeah. >> As it would have been even two years ago. But you know, we look at the Rays, they come to town having a better year than the Blue Jays. Remarkable to say, given the struggle of the year they've had and everything that happened, I mean, again, like we don't need to get into it. But you want to talk about like, oh, man, the Jays were building around Alex Manolan. He's not here. The Rays were building around Wanda Franco and he ain't never going to be here again. Right, please. Oh, quite frankly. But I look at the Rays as a team that one of these ALE teams that we've said, okay, I don't know how they do it. It's Pixie Dust. It's magic. They're the third thing you throw into the division to say, well, I mean, in a world where the Sox and Yanks are going to Sox and Yank and then the Rays are going to be them. How can you compete? How you throw in the Orioles to this? And I think there has been a not with the team, but certainly and not in the past three, four years, but among this fan base, there has been an element of defeatism of, well, I mean, you're in the ALE is absolutely best you could ever hope for. It is wild card. And I think a lot of people have kind of bought into that thinking specifically because of the Yankees and Red Sox and again, the Red Sox haven't really been the Red Sox since 2018 when they last won one, but in terms of the big spenders and the big markets that are always going to be in, you throw the Orioles into the mix now and I think people look at it. But forever, we've said, oh man, imagine that central. Imagine you were in that AL central and that's exactly where the Tigers find themselves. And again, I'm not sitting here and telling you you'd rather be the Tigers than the Blue Jays. I think you still like the Blue Jays pieces better and what you have to build around. And you certainly love the financial might of an ownership group that is paid into the luxury tax for what you're watching this year. But you just look at that central division. I mean, the Guardians are no joke. I'm not going to sit here and tell you they're better than the Yankees or Orioles, but they are right there as far as record goes with them. Again, it feels different. I'm not going to lie to you and say the Guardians feels the same as the Orioles with just their factory of 22 year old guys who rake or the Yankees just finding a way to always go and get their next one. So no, I'm not going to tell you it feels the same, but it kind of has been for the last couple of years what this Guardians team has done. The twins, do we need to go back to the playoffs for me to remind everyone how that went for the Blue Jays and hey, there are reasons there are myriad of things we could point to. But one of them is that twins team, not a joke. They have some bitching. They have some guys who can hit. They have versatility and the Royals, even the third team in that division right now that's ahead of the Tigers that would be well ahead of where you're at. They're taking the upturn, say what you will above that, say what you will above bow. They will hold up a very sexy Bobby, which you and say we're good. He's got the. We got our guy player out of any of them, of course. And this isn't to say that the Royals have figured it out and they're now all the way on the upswing. But this is also to say that you wouldn't necessarily be the Royals if you were in that division. And then, you know, we look at the West, that's a completely different animal with what the Astros, Mariners, Rangers have kind of been for the last five years or so. I mean, the Astros has been longer than that. The Rangers have kind of coming gone in that span. The Mariners have been relatively consistent, but that's what I look at it. Just look at the entirety of the American League and you can't point to the joke division like you always could. There was always a central that you could just say, oh, well, if you were there, you had the worst to be competing in a big, big way for that second wildcard spot and you throw in the division, the lack of games, you now play against your own division. You're seeing all these other teams. I think that's the thing that's just jumped out to me about this Jay's season is forever. Even when the team was struggling, you could point to division and say that is as much a part of this is anything that's happening here. You can't do that right now. And again, I don't say that to diminish what the O's and Yanks are. Those guys are scary, scary, scary. There's just a lot of good in the other divisions as well. Yeah. You know what? There were years where the Blue Jays finished above 500, you can, you know, and miss the playoffs, obviously, and we're not even remotely close to being in that conversation. We're talking to cattle and auto about that, you know, say 87 when team didn't sniff. Precise. There you go. Right? I was even going to say you could be 10 games over 10 years ago and there's no chance you're getting into the postseason. So even though you finish a year where you're think on balance is a pretty decent respectable season, no, no, it's not. And we're now in the business of making excuses. Like, you know, everybody's looking for an excuse and a way to rationalize why something goes wrong or why you fail to make the playoffs, even though the field is deeper than it's ever been in the history of the sport. Still, we have people and namely folks that are, you know, affiliated with a lot of these teams that fall short, trying to rationalize why that happened, why their team was a good enough, or as our pal Jerry DiPoto likes to say, when the 54% of your games and you're probably going to make the postseason, which I think is a loser's mentality to have. But that's the approach. You know, when it comes to this season specifically, Gunnar, I like that you point to just the overall depth of competition, the quality of competition in the American league. As much as we do diminish what the third wild card has done, you can't point at a specific division as you alluded to and say, see, if the Jays were in that position, boy, oh boy, they would be leading the division. Now in years past, we've had those instances arise, even with, I think, you know, Minnesota has been, you know, a main beneficiary as were at one point or another, believe it or not, the Chicago White Sox in that AL Central. But it's gone now. That doesn't exist. Cleveland's good. Minnesota's good. The Royals, as you said, are on the upswing. And then we look at the West. It's a division that for, you know, we had a stretch where it was owned by Texas before Houston came along and prided away from them. And Seattle's always been respectable and in the mix and within that conversation. So you can't point. Point is you can't make excuses. It's that simple and you need to, this is where we get to the point of there's got to be a level of ownership and acknowledgement that your team just isn't good enough, plain and simple. No line, no matter how you slice it, they just aren't good enough. And so what would lead us this even goes bigger picture here? What would give us reason to believe as we look at these standings today on July 23rd, 2024, that July 23rd, 2025, the Blue Jays are all of a sudden going to be in a position where they're in a more advantageous situation than they are today. When Baltimore's still going to be good, the Yankees still have Aaron Judge, so they're probably not going anywhere. The Red Sox are only getting better. Tampa, frankly, is having a down year. And then we look all across the other, the rest of the American League landscape. You would figure Kansas City is going to keep getting better with a more mature young core that is developing Cleveland is Cleveland, Minnesota, still Minnesota, Houston, Seattle, Texas. Like where is the room for the Blue Jays to all of a sudden jump from being a team that is 10 games under 500 to now in 2025, being on the opposite end of that spectrum. It's not there. It's not there. Whatever you want. You want, you want little old school, you want winning percentage, three teams in the whole league, worse than them this year. If you want, if you want just run differential, guess what? It's an even smaller list. It's just the angels and the white Sox. If you expand that to the nationally, there are only four teams in all of baseball that have a worse run differential than the J's. And I think what that specifically points to more than anything, and this is what we've talked about. And look, you should build a team that you think is going to win. Obviously, there are different things that that means. It means if it's going to be a slow build, you don't have to build a winner in one off season. That is not always the way to go about it. Yep. But if you're, you know, Gord Stella, he always has this line, if you're going to suck, suck on the road, and I like to amend it for baseball, if you're going to suck, suck while hitting. The idea of this team that is just completely unable to scratch across anything and the idea of the guy that we hold up who rightfully so has has lived up to maybe not the complete heights that we once thought were possible, but has held up his end of the bargain is a loud singles hitter who occasionally runs into one once in a while. And when he does, he can hit it a big way and flatty, but there's just not the depth of power. And that is the thing I keep coming back to about this team, which is made this year so frustrating again, like maybe if it was the other way, I'd be sitting here complaining about that. But I can live with a satsack team that like boots balls around on occasion because okay, you're not very good. I expect you to make the odd mistake, but these just death march baseball games where it was a 22, 23 games in a row that they went without scoring in the first inning. That's the stuff that I just can't abide. And that's not, that's not John Schneider's fault that the team's not hitting and scoring more runs. That's not the hitting coaches fault. That's the GM's fault. There's just not enough quality on this team. And then you throw in the fact that I think it's funny. The offense has in my opinion, obviously been more disappointing than the starting pitching, but we expected nothing from them and we have got nothing. The starters they have built up so much goodwill that it is kind of remarkable that that hasn't been where all of the ire has been focused. I mean, you say kukuchi is full back to first year kukuchi from what we've seen lately. Maybe not the absolute worst of him, but and do you see now part of it is that also he's on his way out. He's going to get shipped out for whatever they can get for him between now and the deadline. So maybe that's a part of it, but I don't feel like there's a higher with kukuchi. I don't even feel like there's a higher with bow and Vlad right now. It's hard to be mad at bow when he's not playing all of the ire. It just skips right past every guy you see on your TV and right to the front office. And that's the thing of this that's just been so jarring is that people have almost accepted what this group is. And that's not to say they're not going to get it. Like, we don't have conversations about bad approaches anymore. Guess what? They're still happening. Oh, they still, right? Oh, yeah. But people just give it up on that. The idea that this team is an approach change away. No, they're three, four, five bats away and and Kevin Gossman going back to last year's Gossman and kukuchi going back to last year and Jordan Romano being held. There's just so many things that have gone awry in this season. And I think that's why the deadline will almost feel like this point of catharsis where, okay, you shed the bad and it's not that any like, I don't think anyone's dying. Like, I mean, again, the way he's put right now, you're pretty happy to see you say kukuchi go quite frankly. But people love that guy. Very, very popular Jay, Imi Garcia, he's going to go with the deadline, another very popular player that yeah, guess what? He's a reliever. And when he does blow one on occasion, people will get angry about it. But that's the role. That's the job. Generally speaking, this isn't some tough decisions to make. I mean, like, I guess if you were think of the jet trade is in the cards shirt, but that ain't happening right now either. That's the thing that I keep coming back to is just the, you know, and it's this what I talked about when I came back from Alberta. Now that I'm back here, I feel it again. It's the apathy kind of creeping in around this team. And it's just that was the thing that meaningful September baseball was supposed to cure. And oh, what a shock we're not going to get it again. And it's kind of creeping back. It really is. Yeah, I was at the game on Sunday at the ballpark, genuinely surprised by the age, just the crowd. It was unbelievable. People engaged, people excited, invested and go to a ball game. I will say, as far as the sport goes, it's the thing that is least affected by how good or bad your team is, quite honestly, you know, it depends. If you're in there when it's a stinker and I have been on occasion this year, then certainly it's a different, you know, sort of attitude and feelings around the ballpark. What I mean by that is I feel like people that there is such there is a much, much larger segment of people who go to the game to go to the game, then go to a leaf game to go because if you're going hundreds of all raptors, same exact deal now, yeah. This is more of a social setting as opposed to it being a hardcore, sporty audience altogether. And when the crowd, when it's time for that, the crowd is fantastic. Yeah. But I think overall it was just, I was pleasantly surprised. First off, it was awesome to just have three hours where you could sit there and say, you know what, that was a really pleasant afternoon of Blue Jays baseball, which we haven't been able to say a lot in 2024. So it was a nice departure from what has been a pretty difficult season, just optically and even from a performance standpoint for this team. Okay. So when it comes to the deadline stuff here, Gunnar, you know what's interesting about all this, if we're to take the organization, the front office at their word, when it comes to them declaring that moves that are made now will be done for the purpose of slightly retooling because there is a greater goal and objective of being competitive again in 2025. If that's what we're to believe, which again, I think is just diabolically dumb and delusional. But if we're, if that's what we're going with, then they need to be in a position, frankly, a week from today where they are weaponizing the trade deadline instead of being simply quote unquote, sell mode, soft sellers. What I mean by that is this, they need to make trades that are going to whether by, by luck, fluke, chance, I don't know, or maybe some skill involved in moving a lot of these players. Tough ass for the current front office. Yeah. Well, it is. But this is, if they're trying to sell us and sell ownership on this vision, they need to execute trades that are going to net players, whether they're the most obvious choices or not that within this group that they get, there's going to be one or two that actually have an immediate impact that we maybe don't account for. Yeah. I think of, you know, the Kansas City Royals last year traded a Raldis Chapman at the deadline. You know, they got Cole Reagan's who's a frontline starter for them. That's who they acquired in that trade, somebody that wasn't projected, that wasn't predicted to be penciled in as a number two starter, but has miraculously magically become a number two starter in the big leagues. You need some luck, you need some strategy, you need some skill involved. But this is about if they, especially if they're trying to sell this vision and this direction, they need to have some of that happen. They need to weaponize the deadline. It's not about just, let's trade for prospect X who is in single A sure. You better go find guys that can help your team more immediately. And I say that again, from their perspective, as they're trying to sell it and pitch it to us, because I think the vast majority of people in this space understand that is highly unrealistic. But if that's how they're going about it, they better execute and deliver on that. I even think of other things like, okay, so, you know, we talked to Richardi last week, and he was very honest and open about look, guys, like you pick Kevin Gosman, you pace down some of that contract, you get a better asset. I think this is part of the problem with the lack of track record that this front office has to show is that they went to ownership and said, hey, this is what this team is going to cost this year. And I guarantee you they didn't say it's going to have you in last place in your division and what they run differential that is worse than everybody in the American League other than the Sox and Angels. They didn't say that. That's not, that was not the plan. But how can they now? And again, I don't even know these conversations are happening, but let's say they live in a world where they go, okay, hey, we pay down a little bit of Gosman's money that increases the prospect. Why would, why would I trust you to be the guy picking the problem? I think it's one thing completely. If it is a team is like, hey, we want to take on Kevin Gosman. We got no problem. Full freight. Let's do it. Yeah. Okay, go, go ahead, make that trade. How about it? But once you get into the idea of like paying down a little money and all of that asking more of this, then I think that's where it says, well, why am I letting you be the one to do that? Why don't I pay down some of this money this off season with again, this is all part of the problem with what feels like a lame duck GM at the helm. And this is where the Shapiro it all makes it very interesting because he doesn't feel lame duck. Maybe people across baseball feel differently for everything we have heard certainly seems like that guy is much, much safer than the guy directly underneath him. And that's where how much involvement does he have? I think this is one of that we've we've had this moment a lot in Toronto sports of, and for various reasons, like it's mean, but I think people look at Bobby Webster like, okay, but like, what do you do? Like, what is it? He does all the grunt work. No, no, I know. I know that. We've talked to him. You just find the process. But I think people want to know, okay, like Messiah obviously Messiah makes all the decisions. What is it you do? I think with the least forever and we kind of got a window into that at the exit of it is, okay, but like you and Shanna and Dubas, you're on the same page. You're not or are you or this is like a great teddy tat and then ultimately the best idea wins and now with true living in Shanny seems like a very different dynamic as well and throw Kelly into the mix. And I think with the Blue Jays, this is just another one of those where people want to know. I think we all have a pretty decent understanding that like every minor move that's made doesn't have to get flown all the way up to the top of the flagpole. We all work in offices at a certain point in time, you've got to tell your boss something. And then at a certain point in time, they got to tell their boss something. And I just think this is the kind of trade deadline where everything that is operating is on a, I don't need to go above my level of management aspect of this. I don't think we're at though. The Bishat trade is obviously the one, but I'm not even talking about Kevin Gossman would be that. I think he, I think he would be that, but I also think that it's only that. I think if you're just moving off the asset, that's one thing. I think if it's a moving off the asset and eating some of the money, then that's when it goes up the flagpole even further. I would imagine because again, Kevin Gossman has been a great soldier for this team. He will be just by the sheer fact of being a warm body, an important man for them to throw it in for them to throw it in next year. Okay. Yeah, sure. You're going to need him. Sure. If you're running off the books prospect in, you can, you can go out into the market via trade, via free agency and not necessarily replicate what you get, but give yourself something closer to that. That's the thing that I think is just we're at one of these points in the moment where you would love to be a fly in the wall. You would love to know exactly what are the thresholds, how involved is Shapiro and how much is, you know, everything we know about him. And again, the idea of Shapiro maybe being a safety net against this, but I don't think there is a like, I'm going to save my job trade coming from Ross Atkins, either. I think everything about him, he's not that type of guy, not that kind of guy, and quite frankly, if it was coming, why now? This would have happened a month, two months ago. So I think that's the other thing is we're just trending towards this deadline that we all kind of understand how it's going to play out. And well, you'd love the sexy trade, you'd love something of, oh, this was a swing one way or another. I don't think we're going to get it. That's all the guys you expect to go and everyone else is going to stay. >> So two things off of that. My interpretation of this is maybe slightly different than yours in terms of not the hierarchy, but the delineation of power and to what extent there need to be these conversations had at higher levels of management. What if who's to say Gunner that the directive of we are only trading the expiring contracts, the rentals? Who's to say that directive isn't coming from the folks up top or Mark Shapiro in particular? Because maybe in theory, and this must be, as much as we get on Ross, and for good reason, he is the, obviously they put him in a position where he is the front facing figure of this entire baseball operations team and what the product on the field has become, we all equate to being his doing or generally largely his doing. Who's to say though that like he's in a perilous position here, he really is. It almost feels helpless because why would you as a team put through third hand secondary sources try to alert everybody in this baseball community in the industry that you were only committed to trading the expiring assets? Why would you do that? Why would you limit yourself in that fashion? Why not? And I'm not saying you declare you're open for business, everybody, but you don't say anything. You don't allow these drips and drabs to come. They're coming from somewhere, right? So I wonder how much of that is Ross sitting there and saying, I think the most prudent pragmatic things for us to just trade the expiring deal or, or up above him, the bosses that he has to answer to are saying, no, we cannot afford to be bad again next year. You're only going to trade the expiring assets. That's it. And anything to the contrary, even if you have a sniff, even if somebody decides to call you and your phone rings, you're going to tell us when your phone is ringing, what time of day, how long the conversation lasted, that is your job. You are going to report to us and keep us in the loop. I say all this to say because my general sentiment on this is should Ross be held accountable at a certain point? Yes. He is the GM. The title carries responsibility. But if we think for a second that replacing that guy is going to solve all of their problems, news flash, it ain't because some of what's going on here is much deeper rooted than just the title of general manager. Like, it's more of an organizational philosophical ideological conversation. It's about how they desire to build their team, what they value, how they go about their process. He is important and central to that, but he's not the only figure involved in that. So I think we just need to be mindful of that aspect of it when the offseason rolls around and he probably loses his job just temper, not temporary expectations, but just think for a moment. Be patient and say, okay, yes, should he be held accountable and be the one that is ultimately responsible? But I don't think he's the necessarily the only reason they're in that position. No, I mean, nobody, nobody operates completely in a vacuum, but I mean, you, you get yourself to the, to the big chair, you, you wear it. And I think this is, this is the thing that, I mean, hey, talk to a manager, right? Like they got a, this, like I say this, yes, about John Schneider, but this is managers in baseball. It's like, yeah, they make decisions that they don't make. They got to eat it. They got to wear it. It's part of the way they've, they've set up the hierarchy of the sport. But honestly, if I could have a fall guy that got to get a little bit of the credit and, and a lot of the blame, I certainly would sign it up. Why do you think you're here for Ben? Anything that happens poorly on the show today, your fault and everything, you know, I'm just leading us to great. I know I'm, I'm well aware. That's right, Ross. You understand that? Yes. I, I think the other thing that I, I do think the other thing that kind of complicates this in the, in the interim, in the idea of the gauze mens of the world, the bastards of the world, how good do you want to be is, what do you want your ball club to look like? As you hand someone hundreds of millions of dollars in Vladimir Granger, and that feels like that's happening this off season one way or another. Maybe it takes a while because the Soto plays itself out, but I think that's happening. But the guy was jumping out thinking about that was Jose Ramirez, right? Now it wasn't the, I mean, it was 10 year, $175 million, I don't want to diminish what the contract was. Great contract. Great contract. Oh my goodness. The year the guardians had proceeding that, so he signed that right before the 2022 season. Yeah. The year preceding that guardians were 80, they were, they were right around 580 wind team. The next year 92 wins and they were ready to win. And I don't say that like Vlad is obviously a different window in his career than Ramirez is. It's not to say that you say, you know what, the team's not going to be good enough. So we can't extend Vlad even though we have a number where, but if you're going to sign this guy, I think that is not, they're a bigger picture and you think about the entire window of the deal, but you certainly don't want him wearing the, to be the 200 million dollar man or the 250 or whatever the, the figure ends up being on a team that that appears to be an all betross on where there's no Kevin Gosman and there's no Chris Bassett. I think the idea of paying Vladi, not that this team wasn't going to try to have a high bar and they weren't going to try to compete, but that just hammers home the idea that you can't have too, too hard of a reset. I don't think if you're going to go in, in hand, Vladi, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars this offseason. The big difference though, Gunnar and the one thing that Vlad even bow to an extent, the J's as a whole have working in their favor age. That's a huge thing. Totally. No, no, I don't say Vlad to a long term deal. And even if you're mediocre or average for two, three years, guess what? He's still only going to be 28, 29, it shouldn't, it shouldn't predicate you. If you think your team is taking a step back again next year or they're going to be toiling in mediocrity or whatever you want to call this, they'd kill for mediocrity this year. Then I don't think it predicates you, it doesn't stop you from handing Vladi that money. But I do think that you want to set the player up for success in some way. And he can have whatever season he wants, but he's also going to wear it a bit if key is seen to get a big, big payday and the team is seen to do little around him. They'll have the conversations of if they were to spread that out, what else could happen? I think the two are, they are not completely tied together in that if you do one, you must do the other. But I think that the Vladi contract and the idea of wanting to pay him and wanting to give him a ton of money is just going to lead them to giving them one more reason to want to improve the team, which I think they're want to do. Like I don't think this is a group that wants to have some long tigers-esque rebuild where they're toiling in the wilderness for a decade. But, what if it looks exactly the same as next year as it does this year? >> Very possible. >> Right, very possible. So what's to say that it's not possible for that to happen? Here's what I do know is true. I almost feel like 10 times out of 10, okay? Almost with 100% success rate, it is virtually impossible to complete a legitimate pivot when all you're doing is trying to trade rental assets and expiring contracts. It's almost impossible. Show me the team that has done that successfully where that has been the main source of how they've pivoted and reshaped their roster by trading away those type of assets and players. It just, it doesn't happen. >> No. >> Especially in baseball. It does not happen. It requires you to look yourself in the mirror and make some difficult decisions. And maybe I don't want to, again, I'm not saying hard reset. And I do think you have to be very realistic with where you are. And I just don't see a scenario where trading these guys and being like, that's our pivot. It's going to be conducive to all of a sudden they flip a switch and next year they're in a different position. >> Yeah, having said all that though, when you have proven the ability, and again, you want to yell and scream pitchforks, angry mob, all that stuff at the front office, go for it. But when the ownership is, and I know sound like corporate chill, I know, I'd like some of the money. They're giving it to me, but like, I'll take some of those guys' money as well. But the idea that this is an ownership group that is proven through the teeth to be able to spend, and I think that that is something where sometimes you have to, or you don't have to be as creative, and it kind of like the whole world's my oyster. And you see this with the Mets, obviously the Mets is a completely different animal. It was a new owner who came in and said, spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, but it does take some time to kind of not learn to operate under those parameters, but hone in on exactly what the strategy is. When you're the Oakland A's, and we go back to Brad Pitt and Moneyball, it's like, this was the only way they could do it. Yeah. They would have gladly gone out and just bought all the homers they could. So I think that this is something where when you are somebody who has looked at the game a certain way, and we talked about the, he's talked about this, the team control, all that stuff, it's a little different when you have these purse strings to play with. We'll see what happens between now and the deadline. John Marosi joins us on the other side. What exactly will the J's get up to? What's the likelihood that somebody outside of a pure rental is moved and there's no way Boba Shett's getting traded, right? Last Marosi, all that and more. We continue Fan Morning Show on Sport Snap 5-9 of the Fan. The best Blue J show out there, period. Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Time Morning Show, Gunnar, Jen Yellay, still Tuesday. I keep trying guys. I really keep trying. Still Tuesday, still Tuesday. I didn't even know who the powers of BR for that. Like days of the week, getting that to change, that stuff got to really climb quite a ways up the corner. Yeah. It came up with the calendar. It feels like the Romans were involved in that. I got to be honest. I don't know. There's other ones out there. There are other ones out there. I only, I only get involved with like January through December, Monday through Sunday. I know. It's the first day of the week. All Marosi's there. Oh, this is a hot topic. This is contentious. What's the first day of the week? I'm asking. Monday. Yeah. Okay. Good. That's the right answer. Okay. Good. Before we welcome in Marosi, I'll just let everyone know that this insider is brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. Very, very pleased to be joined by our friend and yours, John Marosi, but John, like baseball, will set that aside. I just ask you, what is the first day of the week? What do you say, John Marosi? I was always told as a kid, it would be Domenica for Monday, but, but I would say Monday does begin the baseball week. Yes. Of course, you typically have series that end on Sunday in most cases, that Monday begins the new baseball week. So I understand, I would say this, there's the, there's the family first day of the week. Okay. And then there's the, there's the baseball first day of the week, lunacy on, on Monday of course. You would think my wife and I after being together for quite some time and now being married for over five years, we would have figured this out, but it is still like, okay, I'm writing stuff on the calendar. Oh, what week are you talking about? No, but oh, the 17th, I'm like, oh, that's weird. Cause that's a Sunday. Why would we start with the end of the week? And it just, it will never truly never, and I feel like that's good. You need a little, a little bit of friction in your life. So yeah, I'm happy to agree. We all, and I know you kind of straddled the fence there, but I'll pull you on to our side. We can all agree Monday is the first day of, of, of the week. But if you're talking Sunday, it is family, the trade deadline, we are nearly a week away from it. It's crazy how fast this thing is approaching. And by that, it's moving at a glacial speed. I feel like every day has been seven days of as we wait for this trade deadline to come upon us. I guess the way I'll start this, John is, are you surprised we haven't seen somebody getting a little more aggressive to be a market setter? Obviously, it's easier to do that when you're on the buying side of things. But you can obviously, you know, package things together. You can be creative as a seller as well to kind of force the market. Are you surprised that somebody hasn't started to get out in front and act a little more aggressive here? To be honest, no, simply because of two things. Number one, there have been so many teams that have been in that middle ground for so long about Am I a buyer, Am I a seller, especially in the National League, where the wildcard race has been so wide open and we thought, for example, the Mets were going to be sellers at one point. Now they're right in the playoff spot. So I think they are emblematic of why it's taken a while at this juncture. And I also think that the current group of GMs, I think they're somewhat more risk-averse than their predecessors in the generation when I first started covering the game. And so there is that fear of making the mistakes, I think, in a lot of ways. And you want to be really, really careful and hold the line until the last possible minute and try to win a trade as opposed to the old halist, do a deal that makes sense for both of us and then move on and do something different. That to me is one of the issues that I think exists in the modern trade market. All that being said, the deadline's a week from right now, 6 p.m. next Tuesday, Eastern Time. And I expect we're going to see a lot of movement. And I think part of it, on the pitching side at least, there is at least the belief that if the Tigers are overwhelmed for Scooble, that he could be in play, and as long as that belief persists, it's going to be hard for a team like Baltimore in particular to move on to their second or third choice when what I think is very clearly the first choice is still out there and available if they come up with a really amazing offer. And I have a hard time thinking that they would call up the Tigers and say, "Okay, Jackson Holidays, Samuel Desayo, Kobe Mayo, and make that offer today." I think if that's going to happen, that sounds like a 4 p.m. on July 30th kind of a decision. Yeah, it feels like there is this level of trepidation or at least it's just like treading water for the time being like everybody's stuck in limbo and we're all just victims of what the calendar tells us until the time strikes where you got to act. You got to make decisions gone and that'll be next Tuesday. From a Blue Jays standpoint, John, do you think the market will shape up favorably for them? Like how does this process, the way it's sort of unfolding, the fact that there are so many teams stuck in this murky middle for the time being and have yet to fully declare whether they are going to be buyers or sellers, how does that all factor into what the Blue Jays have in store and at their disposal come next Tuesday and the potential returns that it could bear for them in this existing marketplace? Yeah, it's a great question, Daniel, because in a lot of ways, I think with the exception and it's a big exception, the exception of the Bobis yet injury, basically everything else has unfolded with this deadline on schedule and in a way that would benefit the Jays. Because they are clearly, the one benefit in this market is if you know who you are, that's helpful. And the Jays, for better words, know who they are in this market as a seller. And they have, in my estimation, three starting pitchers that the industry will want. Kukuchi is a clear person to move because he's appending free agent and then you've got Bassett and Gossman. And I was told that the Jays are, yes, listening on players who are under control for 2025 as well. I don't think that they're desperate to move them, but they will move them if the deal is right. But I think, particularly in the case of Bassett, who is pitch, I think, increasingly well as the season has gone along and gives you reliable innings, that's in demand. He's been in the playoffs before, he's been in a big market before in New York. And I think there's a lot to like about his profile and what he would bring to a team. So I do think there's interest there. People see about Green, if he's someone that they're open to moving. I think there are teams that would like to have him because of his, again, he's pitched the big markets, Toronto and New York. There's an understanding there of what to do in a big spot in a postseason situation. So I think that there is interest in a lot of the Jays' pieces and the way that maybe other teams have been confused about their direction. There is no confusion with the Jays. They know who they are right now. And I think that will eventually benefit them in the next week. You mentioned Bassett there in terms of somebody, teams are maybe increasingly coveting. Do you think that, you know, we talk about this all the time in all sports, the idea of guys to get you to the postseason and then the guys to get you through there? I mean, Chris Bassett, we all have nothing but respect for the way he goes about his business. And he just asked him, he'll tell you he's a pitcher, he's not out there throwing, but increasingly in the playoffs, it does seem to be like, all right, let's find the mutant who throws at the fastest and we'll use them for as short a period of time as we can and we'll bring in another one. He doesn't exactly have the profile of something most teams try to add for a postseason starter. Do you think I'm off base in that? Or do you think that that kind of hurts the Jays just the way he goes about his business, the type of pitcher he is? No, it's an excellent point. And I think that when you look at what Bassett would bring to a team, you're exactly right in that this is not the classic hard thrower Justin Verlander of 2011, throwing 130 pitches, a lot of them at 99 miles an hour, it's not, we're not quite at that level when you talk about Bassett. However, I look at the Dodgers and one of my favorite stats that I'll probably be mentioning for the next week is that they've played 15 straight playoff games in which their starting pitcher has not gotten an out in the sixth inning, 15 in a row. That goes back to the middle of the National League division series of 2021 nuts and while we love hard throwers. There's a reason why the Dodgers have so many tens of millions of dollars on the interlist right now, which is that hard throwers can break down and they break down at what seems to be a little higher rate than guys who like Bassett who are not trying to run the engine into the red on every single pitch. And so while I do believe that the Dodgers will hope to get a lot from Tyler Glass now who is someone who does throw hard and has elite stuff, there has to be room in the rotation for someone like Bassett who can take you deeper into a game and potentially bring a little bit of finesse into your rotation. Hard throwers and Walker Bueller has been that for them for a long time and he's had multiple starts. I actually went back and just read through them. It was a lot of three and two thirds or four and a third. And when your starter goes short like that and every starter goes short like that, you start chasing the series and you don't have enough pitching to win a game set. And I think that Bassett, if you at least know, wow, this guy can give me six quality innings, it might be six innings and three earned. But when your lineup includes by then, you hope, Mookie and Freddie Freeman and Shohei and Will Smith, you should be able to score more than three rounds in a lot of playoff games. So I think that managers and general managers who are looking at their teams would see more of the virtue in a Chris Bassett. So for example, the Atlanta Braves, they just lost Max Fried again. And so as the Houston Astros have so many different question marks right now, Bassett is he's the comfortable starting pitcher that a veteran manager or a young manager would put out there on the mound in a big spot and know what they're going to get from him. And goodness is that a reassuring emotion in the middle of a very, very tense playoff series. So I just think that amid all the fascination and I would say perhaps unnecessary infatuation velocity, Bassett gives you something meaningful and different. And I would expect there's going to be a lot of managers who on July 29th and July 30th are pounding the table and they're scouting beating, saying, I really would love to have a guy like that. And I think that if the J's are patient and savvy about how they approach things, they're going to get a pretty good offer for him and probably multiple pretty good offers for him because he presents something different than what I look around the landscape and see is the amazing hard thrower who's on the injured list. Give me the healthy guy who throws in the lower 90s and knows how to navigate a big spot because what Chris Bassett supplies, I think a lot of managers would have really, really loved to have. It's the idea, John, of would you rather have an artist on the mound, somebody that can truly pitch or somebody that's just going to throw hard because we've seen that? I'm a cave man. Give me a hundred. Okay, sure. Okay, got it. That's fine. There's a good argument for that, by the way, that's a perfectly valid argument. But I would say this, you can't have a full rotation full of that because I think with Bassett, we hear this phraseology a lot in the around a draft, let's say, is his floor is higher. Bassett has a higher floor. Yes. And that's a good thing. I even, the way I even sort of juxtapose him in Gosman is Gosman has the higher ceiling, will probably always have the higher ceiling. But if you're looking and trying to ask yourself, which guy do I have more confidence is going to give me longevity if I were to acquire him this year, have control next year, potentially even want to have an appetite to re-sign him. I don't care that he's 34, it's going to be 35. I think there's more tread left on those tires because Kevin Gosman is a two-pitch pitcher that part of his repertoire is relying on being able to play off the fastball that sits 96, 97. That's when he's been at his best in a Blue Jays uniform when we've seen the Velo up in that neighborhood. But with Chris Bassett, it's the opposite. It's the assortment of pitches. It's the sequencing of the pitches. It's the unpredictability when he's on the mound. That's what makes him great. And I feel like that is a, those two are really interesting because they, as effective as they both have been in Blue Jays uniforms, John, there's a dichotomy between them that provides value in different spots. And that's why I think the conversation is so fascinating when it comes to those two guys. And if you're a contending team, what type of pitcher you're looking for because I could see the merits of having a valuing Bassett and also valuing Gosman and what he brings to the table, I just think it's an interesting sort of level of differentiation between the two of them. You're exactly right. And I think that Gosman, again, it's been a bit of an up and down year for him. But again, he's someone that I would also across in a big spot. And this is where it's so interesting. We've had a lot of conversations about where this Blue Jays organization is and where it's going. In the case of Gosman, Bassett, Kikuchi, set aside the conversation about who the long-term GM is going to be in two or three years, the front office is there, they're in place. They're really, they're great people who are going to make the best decisions they can for the future of the Jay. Their own future is separate from this. Do the best you can for the team right now. And I think along those lines, you have in these three starters that we're talking about and Gosman certainly is one of them. You have players with value in the marketplace and you can do right by the organization and fuse some talent and set the organization up for success in the future. And I think for a lot of Jay's fans who are wondering, okay, what's the 2025 team going to look like? And if the organization says, listen, because yes, our farm system maybe doesn't have the amount of talent in it that we would like, the way to address that now and still put a compelling product on the field for the team and the fans next year, is I think to trade multiple starters, okay? So Kakuchi is, I would say, a no-brainer, trade, basket or Gosman, whichever one you feel like can bring back the most value right now, potentially. And listen, there's an argument to trade all three, as long as you're getting back still majorly ready pitching that would then go right into your rotation, it's philosophically then would fill up the rotation for years to come if you do these deals the right way. But bring back your talent now. And that way, there is less of an organizational need, again, theoretically, to even entertain the possibility of trading Vlad, because you can say, listen, we made some pitching moves to infuse our organization with talent. And now, after doing that, there is less of a need to trade Vlad for prospects, there's less of a need to trade Vlad to use different forms of capital there and position the organization. Now let's just sign Vlad. It's clear that he's the one of the two position players that you would want to sign. So do it, get the pitching and effectively do your pitching shopping now by trading the pitching you've got for the pitching that you need long term that's going to be controllable and then sign your first baseman and he's the face of your franchise. That's what I see as being the threading the needle of what the fans would probably want to see. Get us some young talent that we're going to get excited about and then sign the big guy at first base. And I think that that allows you to enter 2025 with a lot more momentum regardless of whoever the fans want to see, making the decisions go long term. Do a good job this week and then figure out what everything else looks like at some point time down the line. Work for the Patriots and Bill Belichick. Do your job. John Marosi. I always love the chat. I really appreciate you jumping off with us this morning. Sounds great. Hey, enjoy the start of the Olympics. It should be a great start there in Paris and may the gold medal game in men's basketball will be the U.S. versus Canada. That's what I'm hoping that we see that and certainly I would say let's have all the gold medal games be that. I'm on board with that. Handshank right there. I know that's the one. That's the one that we're looking at right now is in Canada challenge the U.S. and men's basketball. And then we'll figure out the men's hockey one in a couple of years in Milano in a different time as well. That's right. I like the already have the home as advantage there in Milano. John, thanks so much. I really, really appreciate it. There you go. It's John Marosi that insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus where you could expect excellence online and in the showroom visit Don Valley North Lexus.com a lot to pick out there. We'll pick it up with Shida Vidi on the other side of things. But before we do that, it's time for the wake and break presented by sports interaction. Your home grow in sports book 19 plus bet responsibly blue jays back at it tonight. They do have burios on the bump going up against Sean Armstrong. They're looking at things a little bit of a surprise that the blue jays are favored on the money line. They're minus 156. If you like the raise, you can get them at plus 130. I go to the total. It is eight and a half. Give me the under in that one. Only minus 105. You got to pay for that. That's what's jumping out to me there. What do you like tonight, Daniel? Blue Jays. Okay. When they have a one back to back games and over a month at home. So let's let's make it happen today. If you want to get greedy, you can get them at minus one and a half and you get that at plus 125. Okay. I'm just telling you, if there are people out there who want to get greedy, good job by them and good job by our friends that sports interaction, that was the wake and break presented by them. The home grow in sports book 19 plus bet responsibly coming out on the other side of things. Shida Vidi. What what is he think is going to happen? We heard from a rosy dueling insiders. Let's see what David has to say on the other side. One hour left for the fan morning show on Sports Snap 5.9 of the fan. a.m. and. (upbeat music)
