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LIVE from Missoula, Montana!
This is an amateur hour last. This is a professional podcast. Are you recording it out of the ass here right now? Did you get my singer? I'm gonna make sure it has no context on it. Yes, exactly. Make sure that's how the emphasis is. You got your lemonade. Where you got holy shit. Actually that's a good one. No, no. We just came from this this outdoor music and food trucks everywhere. And yeah, that's awesome. A long bike ride back and the lemonade is hitting the spot right now. Nice. It's so hot here. Speaking of, okay, yeah. So speaking of which, I have an update from a previous one. I'm gonna even say two quick updates. All right, both two map talk. Les, do you feel like you need to hunch over that way? Well, I'm usually kind of close to that. Okay, you're sure? I'm comfortably hunched, yes. Okay, very good. Okay, so update one is I just got off the bike and I biked back from working at a cafe. So I'm here with Christian visiting Montana. Les was a champion. He spent like eight hours in the cafe today working, which is pretty much my standard day. But I took the bike ride back and went through the slants, which we discussed as part of this. And let me just say, Emilio, yeah, extremely convenient to have a diagonal that went right through. So instead of taking some big stupid L, it was just straight shot. I went to the CVS. Was it actually used for a straight shot on the bike? I mean, I just I went from the cafe diagonally across the whole slants to where the CVS was back up. I mean, it was great. Oh, perfect man. And it's a really nice ride. It was like, you know, wide streets, no cars. Nobody drives there because they're afraid of it. And then there's like trees on either side of the road. So very nice, very nice. Lovely. I mean, I just have to say there was a 50/50 chance that you were going to be lost forever or make it a shortcut. And I'm just glad that it was the ladder. The shortcut? Yeah, I'm just glad for you. How would I be explaining this to your wife? I'm trying to think Christian might be full of shit. Whoa, what hot dog out. How dare you? Yeah, never even been here. I'm saying it on the podcast. Wow, I can't agree with you because this man is hosting me in his house right now. Yes, exactly. Let's speak your truth. You lost this one. Laz was on a bicycle that I provided for him. Very true. A bus pass. A lovely ride. We doesn't need a bus pass because all buses are free in the city of Missoula. Geez, Emilio. Oh, yeah. You said that before us. Yeah, shocking. The second time I've heard it, it's still shocking. And I think it's now an entirely electric fleet, too, which is pretty cool. Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm starting to think you're full of crap, Christian. Oh, man. Emilio's gripe corner has turned toxic. That no longer gripes. It's your next last. It used to be funny. Now it hurts. I'm just jealous that I'm not there. Oh, we wish you were here. It would have only cost you $700. Wait, I have more to say about this lance. No. That's all I have to say. I'm glad that you're alive. What was your second update, Lazarus? Okay. So the second update was sort of unrelated, but I just I'd been thinking about this for about a couple of weeks now, and I kind of forgot to mention it. But so, you know, I think we, I personally, and I think all of like, I've given some crap to my hometown a little bit of Ashburn Ham. Are you calling out your hometown now? Wow, that's interesting. Oh, yeah. I mean, eight years there. So this is my hometown now. So, and I think, you know, it's a small town, especially compared to like where we grew up, all that kind of stuff. And I was driving, you know, we, and I've talked about kind of like, you know, there's, there's not like city services. Like you sort of everything is just on your own. I was driving one morning, like down the main road to get out to like the center of town. And the sides of the roads were just like covered in trash. Like there's, you know, people have been littering. And I was just like, man, this sucks. Like, and I know there's no trash service, you know, to like come and pick it like the city doesn't just doesn't, the town doesn't like, can't do stuff like that. Just doesn't have the money, doesn't have the effort. So, I was like, oh, man, that sucks. And I was driving to this softball field, because the softball league organized like a town cleanup day to fix up the softball field, which was overrun by grass. Oh, that's nice. So I was like, okay, yeah, so I'm going to participate. So community oriented. Yeah, so I went down there. And there was like 30 people there with their kids. And they like were everyone had shovels that they brought. And one person brought like a big backhoe. And they we cleared the whole field out, the baseball fields, all covered in grass, made it all dirt again, brought in baseball dirt, covered it up. This would have taken like a million hours and all it was just like so much work. But because there was like 30 people, it went quick. Then on the way home, I'm driving back, this is literally like the same day that I was thinking like, this sucks all this trash. I'm driving back and there's all these people in orange t-shirts. And I had not been aware of this, but that day was the town wide street cleanup volunteer day. And there were just like, again, families on the side of the road, picking up all the trash and putting into bags so that later, like garbage truck would come through and collect all the bags. And I was like, this is something that like wouldn't happen everywhere. Like this is like a cool thing that like there are these negative, you know, there's these kind of things that like I'm down on sometimes because of not like all the same stuff. But this was a day where I was just like, everybody was volunteering, helping out and like improving the community just in like a super nice way. So now the roads look awesome. So props to Ashburn him for my follow up on that map. Les, these are two such, such positive updates. I'm feeling, feeling good. I feel like you're at a good place right now. This is what happens when you come to Missoula, Miliya, you just sort of like your day just feels brighter. I feel like you're fully crap Christian. Can I say something that your latter anecdote, your second anecdote reminds me of. It actually brings me back to my first, God, I want to say day living here in Missoula, or was at least within the first couple days of living here. And what happened was I was just getting to know the city and you know the way that I typically do that is of course by walking. And so I, you know, would just pick a direction and start walking when I first got here. And I was walking downtown along the main road there. And I remember sort of like seeing a piece of trash on the sidewalk and having truly like a novel experience for me, which was wanting to pick it up and throw it away. Yeah, do it. It looked so out of place or something. Well, I just sort of, well, you know what it was, I felt like that's what I wanted and needed to do. You know, it was just sort of like, oh, I think I care about whether or not this is on the ground here. And, you know, in Boston and Cambridge and Somerville, I think, you know, the general sort of feeling I always had was like, you know, oh, that's, there's just trash here, you know, and it's just, that's just kind of what it is. And you just kind of and eventually someone may pick it up. Like, there might be a town thing that comes through and they're almost certainly is some sort of like, you know, there are people whose job it is to do that, I think, to some to great least, or there are actual good Samaritans that who are not me. But I just remember having that feeling when I first moved here and just thinking like, okay, like, that's what that's how I feel about this place. And that's maybe like the vibe of this place is that people actually care about that. And it was my first sort of experience of like, oh, like this, this town has like a community feel. And I want to be a part of that, I guess. I thought you were going to say it was your first experience caring. Yeah, I mean, ever about anything. That's for sure. Yeah. What is the strange feeling you fell down on the middle of the road? Yeah, I'm like crying. My heart grew two sizes bigger or whatever. But do you still have that feeling now? Has it changed? Has it increased? Has it lessened? Like, what? Where are you now? No, I just sort of resolved to be that way here, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say, I think it's actually, it has actually kind of carried over to wherever I happen to go now where it's like, okay, like, I guess, aside from sort of being a part of this community, I guess I want that to be a part of, you know, like how I engage with spaces in general. And so, so yeah, that's nice. But I hadn't, I hadn't really ever had that thought prior to being. Just this morning, I was walking my dog and I was in front of my neighbor's house, a couple houses over and some dog had just shit all over their sidewalk. And I was like, oh, damn it. And then I just, whoa, wow, thinking of dog shit. Yeah, I was, I was already out with the dog and I had poop bags on me. And I was like, this is so gross. And why would somebody do this? And then I was like, well, you know, what kind of person do I might, if I don't just like deal with this, I can, I have the means to deal with this right now. So yeah, you have the bags. I don't like, I don't like to do that too often. You know, it's gross, but I don't know. It's like, it wasn't even like on the side. It was like center in the sidewalk. And it was just like nuggets of poop, like scatter. So gross. So gross. Well, I mean, I know how you talk about your love of San Diego and how it's just really important to you to care for that community. I have a conversation. I have a question about the like community cleanup stuff, because so our neighborhood is like, you know, it is a, it is kind of, it does have a neighborhood field to community that, you know, people know each other, whatever. There's a, a park like a block from my house that is the Little League park. And okay, the, it's the Rolando Little League, our neighborhood is Rolando, but I don't think, you know, everyone is necessarily from this neighborhood. And so on, in particular, like now, this time of year, there's a ton of families that show up. You know, our street, which is normally pretty empty is full of cars, like two, three nights a week. There's all these kids at the park. It's very lively. And what I find is that then I go to the park in the morning, swap my dog, and there's just trash everywhere. And it's, it's gross. And it's like, and you know, I'm just like, I'm trying to decide how I want to deal with this. Is it like a, you know, talk to, you know, pull aside the coach one day when I see them over there and be like, Hey, you know, pick up your trash or like, do I send an email to the Little League president or like, do I go on next door, which is a bane of, you know, it's just a cesspool of toxicity. Can I be sure you can we come back to next door? Because fuck. Yeah, sure. I mean, I don't have much else to say. Yeah, but maybe we should just talk. I just want to lean into that a little bit because Jesus, but for the specific thing, are you pretty sure it's like the Little League situation? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I know. Amelia sits sits out on a bench across the street with binoculars. And he's like, oh, I knew it. I knew it. Those damn kids. Well, so yes. So yes, I know. So there are other people that use the park. There's also like, you know, fairly, you know, regular, you know, group of homeless people that are there, and they have an area that they go to, which like can get really trashy. But a lot of the time, especially during the baseball season, it's like gum, you know, big league chew, wrappers, and like, yeah, like the plates that they eat their snacks off of are just, you know, I have a picture. Orange rinds. Yeah. Well, that's soccer. You know, okay, my mistake, my mistake is showing your lack of sports. I love sports sports sports. I think actually, like, in that particular case, yeah, I would actually consider talking to the little league itself. Yeah, because the thing is, like, it's almost all parent volunteers. And I do think, like, I know, I'm a parent volunteer in the little league, and I sometimes work at the snack shack. That's one of the, that's one of the like, responsibility. And like, if they do get a reminder that like, hey, people do care about this, like, I think there is something, there's often like, it's sort of easy solution, like, just reminding the parents, like, even just one reminder to the parents, like, please throw your trash in the trash cans, and also making sure that there are trash cans, because, yeah, like, that's one thing that happens at some of the fields. And I notice it now a lot, because like, I think about it now, because it's like, I'm there at the games, and sometimes there's no place to put my trash, and it sucks. And it's like, I don't throw it on the ground, but like, other people do. So yeah, I think between those things, like, that's, that's, that feels like a, the kind of thing that they would want to, like, that they wouldn't mind, like, a reminder to everyone, because like, they don't want to be like, I don't know, I don't, I don't think they want to like, make a mess of this place either. But if they don't say anything about it, then it just kind of happened. Yeah, that's what I was kind of thinking. And actually, I do, I do think they need more trash cans, and I would even like, pay for one if that would help. Like, what do they cause? Like, 50 bucks or something at Home Depot? Like, I could go pick one up and, and show up and, and maybe have a sign around my neck and be like, Hey, everybody, don't make a mess of our parks. I mean, I was thinking post it notes, and you say, Hey, please, please don't leave this here. And you just put it on the big lead, you on the ground. Hey, it's really rude to leave this here. That's what that postage should say. And so make up about a hundred of those. Yeah. Or wait, Gladys does, like, flying, right? So you could maybe do an air drop of, like, yeah, okay, we've solved this situation. Oh, my God, Gladys, I can imagine her just being so embarrassed by this idea. I mean, this thing that will never happen, but just like, I could imagine her being so embarrassed. Hey, honey, could you, could you fly a little lower over the baseball park? I would just, no, no, I'm just a trash bag full of leaflets. She's like, I don't want them to be able to see my face. This reminds me of how, you know, the world used to be, or America used to be before we like, had anti pollution, like campaigns, like PSAs and that kind of thing. Like, you know, you'd go, you'd have a picnic and you would just sort of like, you know, shake out your picnic blanket in the park and just whatever, you know, whatever was on it was just what you left there and then you like walked away and like, because the sort of like prevailing thought was, oh, like, you know, ants will eat this or some animal or it'll eventually break like it was just sort of not in the sort of public consciousness. And it's like so funny how we thought that, but it's true. I remember it was like parodied in the anchor man when they go on a picnic and they just like, dumped the entire contents of, you know, their numbers in the park. A movie, of course, that I know you're a fan of Amelia because of how it picks San Diego, your favorite city in the country, your community. It's wonderful. It's, we have the best news teams. Yep. Yep. Yep. Commonly known. Mustaches. I don't remember what I've only said that, but we once, I didn't really. That's right. We don't need to keep going with it. I'm sorry. I apologize. It's like, has, has Anchorman, have Anchorman references come back around yet? No? Okay, cool. Sorry. My bad. My bad. Stop trying to make Anchorman happen, Christian. How about, how about, do people say my B anymore? Is that back yet? My B? Oh, I hope so. That I like. Okay. Good. All right. I mean, let's just make sure that we, you know, there's a, there's a piece around, um, you know, when you have the kind of influence that we have through this podcast, you do got to be kind of choosy. What language you, you know, want to put out there. And so I think I just want to be responsible with that and using my B, um, responsibly. I don't think kids anymore apologize for this. They don't have a B. What? There's no B in children anymore? No B. They're just like, bro, you didn't do that the right way. And then their friend is like, bro, I did it the right way. You have no riz. And then their friends like, bro, Skibby, Ohio, bro. What the hell's going on? You made that one up, sir. No. You're going to wish I did. You're going to. I can confirm. I can confirm. There's something about Ohio and I don't know what it is, but like Hazel has been like, it's just like, she's heard about Ohio. The kids say the word Ohio and like they had something with states on like a map and everybody wanted to be Ohio. I don't know. I don't. I can only understand it yet. If you want, do you, should we actually try to think? I don't know if we need to go down this. Oh, God. I am steeped in this right now. No printer? No what? That's a thing. No printer. Yeah. I don't know if I used it right, but I think I used it. It's definitely not cringe when you do that. Yeah, I used it right. So screw you guys. I'm looking it up on her. No cap is old, Amelia. You're old. Not like me. You mean I'm a, I'm a boomer? You. Yeah. Yeah. You're a boomer. As the kids say, you're a boomer. Oh, no. Oh, yes. So what is the skippity Ohio thing? I do want to know. Well, skippity is one thing. Skippity is the, there's this YouTube show called Skippity Toilet, which is like a computer animated show about these evil toilets that have heads in them that fight against these guys who have like video cameras for heads. And it's, it's, it's immensely popular Christian. Like, yeah, no. I mean, I'm enough to like put a word. Yeah, enough to put a word into the vocabulary. Yeah. So that, that was, I mean, but the thing is that I don't think as many people who say skippity toilet have actually watched it necessarily. It just became a word that's fun to say, which is what most middle school slang is. It's just stuff that's kind of fun to say. It sounds fun. It feels fun. So like, the skippity thing is, is one thing, and then Ohio is. Wait, what does skippity mean? It's, it generally could be something that's bad, but it really doesn't mean anything anymore. It's just a, it's just a, it's just punctuation. No. Wow. It's like our version of like, it's like their version of like. Yeah. Yeah. In a sense, I guess. I mean, that, but you could say that like, so it's like, you know about riz, right? Yeah. So like skippity riz could be bad riz, like not having riz. But skippity, Ohio is just a thing that they say. Ohio was a meme where like people were shitting on Ohio because it's like a not a night. Yeah, it's garbage. Everybody knows it. And so the kids just started, like at first it was like, that's so Ohio or like you're from Ohio, and now it's just now they just say Ohio to everything. Okay. And so, I don't, I didn't catch a negative vibe from it when Hazel was kind of telling me about it. I mean, she had no idea, but it was just like, she's like, Ohio was like a thing. That's like, people say. It's so cute. It's so cute. Wow. Okay. So I was in the car with three middle school boys, you know, my son and his two friends taking them to this, to this trampoline park place. Gross, gross. And it's, you know, I'm just sitting there trying to listen to music and all I hear in the back is like, bro, that's skippity, riz, skippity. Oh, bro, skippity, Ohio, skippity, riz, Ohio, that's so sick. It's like another language. Not even using them in their meaning, right? They're just saying the word. Just saying it. And you know, they're talking to chat. They're like, chat, that's crazy chat. Chat. That's so skippity. That's sigma, riz, chat. That's w, riz, chat, sigma, riz, w, riz. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm hardly exaggerating. W is like, you know, when L riz is lose, that W is good, L is bad. It's so annoying. But then, yeah, there's, they're not even saying sentences or discussing topics or anything. They're just saying these phrases because they're like, they sound fun. Huh. Okay. Well, I mean, yeah, more power to them, I guess. Give it a try. No. Skippity, Ohio, just come, just come. The answer is no. The next time Tiffany's hanging out, just come in the room and just be like, Tiffany, skippity, Ohio, skippity, Ohio, riz. Something you've gotten lost your mind. Yeah, like if I stroke or something. Oh, no, he can't speak anymore. He's speaking like disconnected. He's trying to communicate with something. Oh, no, we got I should call 911. You're saying I should call 911. It's fine. It's fine. You'll have a good time. Oh, God. Oh, man. Should we go for time by next door now? Oh, yeah. Let's circle back to that thing. That's awful. I feel like we're putting a negative spin on Laz's really positive intro. Oh, well, I mean, Laz didn't say that next door was good and you wouldn't say that, would you ever? No, good. You know what's interesting? Like, when next door first happened, I was like all about it. It happened in 2014, at least as when it sort of widely became a thing. And I remember, you know, I read something about it or heard something about it on like NPR or something. Like, it was like, you know, something that I thought, Oh, this is a good idea. It is social networking for your immediate sort of local area where like, you know, like, like, in this idealistic kind of way, I was like, Oh, like, what if I needed some sugar or something? And like, I could ask, Hey, does one of my neighbors have some sugar I could borrow? Like, you know, even though it's not like a real scenario, it's just something I'd sort of imagine. And so like, I immediately signed up for it as I immediately sign up for essentially everything that I ever hear about that is like a social media thing. Just so I have an account on it, you know, just in case it's something I want to do. And at that point, they would send you a postcard. And the postcard would have like some sort of code that you would use to essentially verify that you live at the address that you have stated on the website. Yeah. Cool. And yeah, and what you would do then is you could actually like, I think it was like, I don't know if it was for free or if it was some very small fee or something like that. But what you could do is you could have next door send postcards to like X amount of homes within whatever radius of your home. And it would just send those out and be like, Hey, join next door. Here's the code, blah, blah, blah. And so I did that too. And then because at the time, like the whole idea was like, well, what is your neighborhood? And it wasn't like already established on the next door website. So they'd be like, here's a map, draw the boundaries of your neighborhood. And so I drew the boundaries of like my. I want to say city council district or something. Oh, very wide. Well, it wasn't that it was North Hampton. So you're in the game during my internship in 2014, 2015. And so I did that. And and I thought, how great, what a great thing to have. What a great sort of spin on social media and localizing it and making it more concrete. And then, of course, I wasn't on there very much because, you know, I didn't fucking need sugar. Oh, my, some sort of person who needs sugar. And then it was like, you know, I would occasionally pop on for something every one or two years. And over the course of maybe about five years after that point, like just I observed it just becoming, as you said, Amelia, just so toxic. And so like, like you'd think that people would be on slightly better behavior with their actual names and like neighbors. Yeah, like in their actual neighborhood. But it seems like it swept up just the absolute drags like these people maybe are looking for an outlet to be angry at their immediate neighbors or something. And so just ugliness. And and I've had I've been on there for like multiple neighborhoods and multiple states. And that's how it is. And I don't understand how that's happened, actually. Yeah, it's it should be. I remember, so I joined our next door probably 2017 or so. And I did the things that you're talking about. I was borrowing. Yeah, tools from neighbors. I my whole backyard, I did a huge backyard project, like cleared out a bunch of stuff. I got a sledgehammer. I got hundreds of cardboard boxes to like layer under wood chips. I got a company that dropped off free wood chips. They people on next door found our neighbors dog who ran away like, Oh, wow, it was like really great for like six months. And then and then it just became exactly what you're describing of just this like, yeah, this horrible place. And I I connected with in our neighborhood, one of the guys who was one of the administrators. He was also part of our local like we have a local community council for our new. And I like talked to him and he was like, Oh, yeah, we're trying to make it all this and that. And like, I think he just abandoned it after that because it just was so gross and he wanted nothing to do. Sorry, Amelia. I think he also left the crewing up our heads. So, you know, the community council is sort of the in person version of this in a lot of ways. It's not like that toxic, but it's just kind of the same people with the same sort of planes. Amelia, I'm sorry. Oh, it's not even a lucky idea also, but like it's so broken. Can I? Hey, are you guys still there? I cannot hear you. Make sure the audio device for the speakers and in meat is the link that's. It's the next to Mike. Yep. And there it is. Oh, change the mic to that. So I'm the call. Give me the mic is should be. Oh, I suppose it doesn't. Uh, you can't hear anything either. We can't hear you at all, Amelia. I don't know if I'm assuming you can. Yeah, so I think let's change this. So it's this. Amelia, we can't hear you. We've lost you somehow. Hey, are you there now? Your butt issue. Can you hear me now? Um, hello? Hello? I hear you, but I guess you can't hear me. I couldn't hear you for a while there either. Hey, say something, Amelia. Can you hear us? Uh oh. Can you guys hear me? Yes. Can you hear us? Hello? Hello? Hello? Can you hear us? You are both muted. Oh, oh. Okay. Hey, hello. Now, now, can you hear us? I hear you. Okay. Oh, my goodness. I'm sorry. I don't know what happened. I couldn't hear either of you. Um, Laz pressed a button that muted the, uh, he doesn't. So the these, if you touch them, they have things they do. Okay. So when you fit in my ears, do you have a small ear canal? Maybe a big one. I don't know. These are the biggest size. Okay. Oh, man, bummer. Do you want to switch to that thing? Would the, would that work? It's fine. It's fine. I'll just try nothing. Okay. Sorry. Um, you were talking about how great net next door, you don't need to recount it. I got, I got my wrist out. It's all good. Um, no, we'll just have to listen to it when we hear the podcast. Oh, man. Okay. Yeah. I guess so. Um, I guess we should move to a topic. Wait, wait. So, okay. So my next door. Oh, you have so, okay. Good. Yeah. So, so I, we, I started next door also pretty hopeful. Mm. Uh, it was much later. I guess it was like 2015 or 2020. We've all been heartbroken by next door. Well, it was actually pretty useful in the beginning. So, like we had a couple of situations and I actually post on it sometimes. Uh, but we had a couple situations where like someone's boat or dock was floating away and they'd be like, oh, I found this on my beach. And so, wait, Amelia, you're still there? I'm here. I'm just muted. Okay. Okay. I just like, um, so yeah, we'd find like, uh, some post about that. And that was actually really useful because like, I don't know how you'd contact like how you, how would you find that boat otherwise? Right. Uh, and so that was, that was good. And then we have a lot of nature lovers in the area who would take pictures of very cool, like foxes or owls or whatever that they found. Oh, nice. Yeah. So that was awesome. Um, and that's kind of how it started. But then you just had these, you start, we started to get these regular. Oh no. Yes. So two things. Like we get the regulars who started posting like, I don't know, like, I remember one of the first posts I got that was like, there was some people going walking around the neighborhood, like selling something. And so, there was like, it was like a, like an, everybody was scared or something. Like it was just like, get spread around. Like, we don't know if these people are, you know, they're like trying to sell magazines or something, but they might be casing the neighborhood, like for like, just rob stuff and like, that's the same thing that happened with our neighborhood. Oh my goodness. Like, it was just like this wave of like, fear swept through the neighborhood. And, and I don't know, it just didn't, it didn't seem as nefarious as everybody thought and like, and also just like, I don't know how to, like, I wish I could think of more examples, but there was just like these negative posts of like, and it kind of, like, I hate to say it, but like, they sort of seem, it seemed like there was a pattern, a kind of racist pattern, like, which like, I don't know, you know, it's like, these are neighbors and you don't know, like what, but like, it just was like the most, the like, most of the fear was like, you know, I saw like these guys, like, wanting to be like a blurry picture of like, you know, somebody walking around the neighborhood and it's like, I don't know, like, would you have noticed that? Like, if like, one of them wasn't black or I don't know, they like, that happened a few times and I just like, so there was that. But then the other thing that happened was, for whatever reason, I get the emails also. And for some reason, they expanded out the neighborhood for the emails. Yeah, yeah, you start getting updates for all these surrounding neighborhoods. I'm like, oh, wow, that happened here. And I click into it. And it's like, no, that happened, like, six towns away. And it's, so it's no, it's not interesting at all. And it's fooled me a few times, because I'm like, that would be interesting if that was happening in my neighborhood. So like, it's completely lost. It's like usefulness at this point on top of just kind of being like a little bit disappointing. And then you get the same people posting all the time. So between those things, I just, I don't know, done with it. And every time I click the link, I'm not logged in, so I have to like log in, I'm like, I nevermind. That's a tech thing. But that doesn't annoy me. Actually, that's true. I've noticed that like occasionally, because I've turned off almost all notifications from it unless there's something like a, like an alert type thing. But then you click the alert and it wants you to log in, I'm like, fuck you, I don't care that much about whatever, whatever is in emergency here. We had the same thing in our, in our neighborhood last, it was, it was always, it always started with the post, like, hey, saw some strange people in the neighborhood, wanted to let everyone know. And then inevitably, oh, what was strange about them? Well, they were walking around, they might be casing houses. Oh, they weren't just people taking a walk. Well, they were brown. It was the same progression in like all any post like that was always the same. And it always came out like, okay, they were brown or black and like that. And I'm like, or, you know, even like, oh, they had a hoodie on or something. I'm like, fuck, I'm a brown guy with a hoodie that walks around the neighborhood. I was waiting for someone to like, you know, take a picture of me or call me out, so that I could be like, I live it. This is this address. I'm in a home mode. I pay my tax. I was going to give the whole spiel. Oh, that's good. You got to be ready for it. Yeah, I'm ready. Awful. Awful. Now it's like, what's hilarious is that Reddit is a better option for that. Like, I just got to the Missoula subreddit and it's like, you know, it's great. I mean, one, you know, actually, I did sort of when I was looking for the right cemetery to, you know, buy a plot in, I asked on that sub and I started out with like, hi, folks, f-o-l-x, which is how I spell folks now because it's, you know, sort of like more gender friendly is sort of the idea around it. Not that folks is gendered, but like, it's just become a thing. And I'm like, you know, I would like to, you know, find out where I want to get buried. Also, veteran cemeteries are on the table. And then like, some guy responds like, folks in quotations, Mark, good to know you snowflakes are the ones who are out there defending our country or something like that. Like, it was disrespectful to like, both like military service members and anybody who has a liberal bend on this sort of thing. And it was, it was like immediately downvoted though. And that like, it's hidden and it's like, it's good, but the subreddit has like, Reddit has been way better for getting information than anything ever was on next door. You should have been like, you should go back to next door. Oh, I have to hold on to that. That's good. Oh, yeah. Oh, hold on. I think that guy, I think we got that guy kicked out of the subreddit because like, like 30 people downvoted him and reported him. Yeah, I mean, that sounds like that guy has way bigger issues. Ah, I know exactly. Yeah. He can have them outside of our sub. Yeah, seriously. Okay. Do we want to talk about a topic or two or three? Yeah. Yeah. What do you got, Christian? Oh, what do I got? Um, quick look, I think I, you know, I always have a few that I'm kind of wondering about. Um, I think that better be your best one. Oh, no, I'm going to choose my worst one just for that, buddy. Um, no, this one I've been thinking about and it has to do with two things. One is, um, having recently visited my sister and brother-in-law, um, in the middle of nowhere, Idaho, um, where my brother-in-law spends a lot of time hunting and fishing. And then also, uh, the other thing that sort of brought this on is, um, watching the show alone, which I know I've mentioned previously and, uh, Tiffany and I made last watch some of last night. Um, and, uh, you know, just one of these shows that we just love binging when we kind of get into it. And I, it was, it was good. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. It was very interesting. Yeah. Um, but the thing that sort of, uh, the, the topic that I'm curious about is, um, perspectives on hunting. I'm just curious, like, is this a thing that you guys ever think about? Is this a thing that you guys have opinions on? Like, and what are those opinions? What are your opinions on consumption of meat in general? Like, you know, as far as like hunting versus industrial or farm, farm, you know, farmers market type local meat things and buying it in the store or whatever. Like, I guess I'm just curious about thoughts in those topic areas because, um, you know, as a vegetarian, right? Like, I'm sort of, like, I guess I feel sort of called upon to have an opinion on these sorts of things. Um, and, uh, I don't know, just wondering if you guys have thoughts or opinions on that range of sort of thing, that umbrella. Yeah. So I, I do, I'll, I can, you know, because I was, I was thinking about it today or actually, yeah, I was thinking about this morning because after watching a little bit of an episode of alone last night, I fell asleep very quickly. Last have been up since midnight hour time yesterday, and he actually made it to like nine 30 or something. Yeah, I was, I was, uh, I woke up very early for my flight. Um, and the guy, so I woke up this morning, you know, I fell asleep during the episode yesterday, but I woke up this morning and I wanted to just, they did some work and I would put on an episode. And the guy in the episode was hunting, you know, they have to survive out in the wilderness. And he was hunting and he was catching pheasants. And he just had this, you know, depressed look. And he said, I'm getting very tired of killing. I remember that. And watching, you know, he shot a pheasant and it was slowly dying in his hands. And he was like, I'm just going to let it. And he was like petting it. Like, I want it to die peacefully. Like, and he just kind of waited till it died. And, and then he was like, I'm getting very tired of killing its exhausting. I have to do it every day and like mentally I'm exhausted with killing. And I, and I had to been thinking about this a little bit because, um, I just was telling Grace a few days ago, I was like, I wonder if I'm like getting too soft for the world. Oh, you poor, sweet man. Yeah, because like when I was a kid, I used to fish. And I got no problem with fishing. Like, but when I like think about fishing with my two kids and we live on a lake and we, and there's a fishing lake that they actually like stock with fish and fishing is a big activity there. There's boats going by. There's a contest every year who can catch the biggest fish and you weigh in and it's official. I have lost you guys again. Oh, oh, really? Looks like Laz is talking. Oh, uh, muted. Oh, it seems like we've lost the internet connection. Give it a sec because it looks like it's trying to. Oh, can you hear us now? Oh, we're muted. Oh, okay. Sorry. Actually, lost the connection for a moment there. Yeah, so there's fishing. Yeah, go ahead and you might have to talk about there's like a fishing contest. I think that's where you cut out. Oh, okay. Yeah. So every year, there's a fishing contest and like you can have you weigh in officially and it's just a, it's just a big activity and people always ask when they visit like, Oh, you guys fish here? And, and I just like have had no desire to fish because like we have such a friendly relationship with all the animals that live around us. We've named every chipmunk. You were talking about that earlier. Yeah. We had, you know, one of them, we watched pull an apple core down into its little hole and we call him apple and we just like we can tell which ones they are. Sometimes they eat out of the little girl's hands. Like we just have a sweet relationship with pretty much every animal that's around. We now have a bunny living nearby that comes visits and it just like hops around our yard. And when I think about like catching a fish, like you got to get the hook, you know, pretty deep in it. And it like kind of hooks it in and then you like rip the hook out and you try to do it like as best you can. So it doesn't hurt. And I have always had this idea like, you know, they've got tough cheeks or whatever. But like you rip some fiction detail. Yeah. Like really, it's like, well, you know, we don't really injure them. They go back and they're fine. You know, and Amelia, you're still there. I'm still here. Okay. Yeah. So I just kind of like think that now I don't, I maybe should be doing some of that more. But like I just we have a good relationship with animals and like, and I don't think that much I still eat meat. But part of that I think is honestly just addiction to me. Like I don't, I don't think I would go out of my way to get it. And when I make dinner, I tend to just do potatoes and, you know, rice and veggies and like, really tend to not make me beans. Yeah. Like I just, when, you know, it's like, I got no problem with, you know, I'm not like exactly vegetarian. I'm not like vegetarian myself. And like we still get burgers out. But it's kind of been something that like, I think I have a lot less comfort with than I used to. I used to really not care at all. And I can even think of times like, I'm almost like, I don't even like to think about it. But like, just little things like, we'd be cavalier about it. Yeah, like, I would like throw a rock at a little squirrel in the distance. Like that's me. And like, you know, it's just, it was for me, it was about aiming. And it was also just not caring that much about the animal, like not really, you know, they were animals. It's a lesser, they're like, just, and I just, I don't, I would never do that now. And I remember like, even just like hitting, trying to hit bees with a baseball bat, because it's a challenge, you know. And like, I just wouldn't really do that anymore. And I don't really want the girl, I don't like, I don't see any positives from like the girls doing that kind of stuff. And they just love animals so much and little birdies. And but I also worry that like, I'm a little soft about it. Like that could be part of life. And like, it is part of life. We're still eating meat. And that meat is being killed in vicious, like terrible ways. So it's a little bit like disingenuous to like eat a bunch of meat and then be like, you know, all the little animals, I would never hurt them. I don't know, I have a little bit of a, you know, it doesn't feel quite right. And then like, my brother is now vegan. My dad is vegan. What? Really? Oh, yeah, he's been vegan for like, you know, and he like didn't want to go to, to like, I don't know. He's like, he's always kind of like, he's a big animal guy. He would never hurt the animal. He used to sit in the backyard of our house. This was long before he became vegan, actually, even. But he was like, he's like, it's great. We've got a bunch of like, bees in the backyard. And, and then he was like, it was like, not bees, it was like wasps, like a huge wasp thing. He's like, yeah, you know, I, I just still do work out there. He's like, but they pretty, they sting me pretty much every day. I can't remember. Was that the place that was near more school? Yes. Yeah, that's right. I can't remember that. Yeah. And so he would, and he did not do anything. I mean, he was like, just very peaceful about it until like, he was like, you know, I, I went out there and I just was trying to sit in the backyard and like, and do my flashcards. And he's like, I got stung like five or six times. And I was just like, and these bees are like, and he was like, so he finally had to do something. But like, he just, you know, he's, he's, he's now like, you know, he doesn't eat any kind of meat. And it's, it's like a animal thing. Like, he does, he believes we should like live in harmony with the animals rather than factory farming. And it's like, I don't entirely disagree. I don't live like that. But it's like, it's kind of hard to like, I wish, I guess that it was easier to be to feel that way and to not think of it. So I don't know, I'm getting soft in my old age, not hard, not like less care. I don't know. You're getting more compassionate as you mature in being wisdom in your life? I don't know. What did, what did Grace say to your admission of softness? She, she is feeling the same. What's the thing? I think we're both like, you know, if we thought too much, I feel like if we like really thought too much about like, we don't eat pork anymore, I will say that. I sometimes will have sausage, but I don't even know what that is. Usually pork. Yeah, it's probably pork. But like, yeah, like I know what we're get for. And like, I don't know, it's just something that like, I do feel like if we really like, may, if we let ourselves really think about it, we could probably pretty be vegetarian for that reason, for animal reasons. I mean, a lot of that resonates with me, but Amelia, I'm curious your thoughts too, and I could go into mine or if you want me to go do it. I'm going to go in the opposite direction. Oh, hot take. Whoa, we're at least eating a steak. Yes. I just had a slice of pepperoni pizza. Yeah, I love me some pepperoni that has meat on it, which is, I think, you know, this is, this is one of the, there's only so many fights you can have that one time, I think, right? And this is one of the ones that is not near the top of my list. So I don't really think about it too often. And I, you know, of course, you know, I'm like, you lads, I don't like the idea of like hurting animals or, you know, the horrible ways that we farm them. But I also, you know, really don't have any kind of practices in my life that are fighting against that. You know, we buy me the grocery store, we eat it. My wife is like, you know, I don't know, 70% vegetarian. She mostly eats veggies. You'll have a bit of chicken every now and then she doesn't eat fish. I have been fishing. I went fishing with my son recently. I don't feel anything bad when I fish. But I did try to cook a lobster. This was like maybe 15, 20 years ago in a pot, a live lobster, you know, very sort of New England thing to do. You pick them up at the lobster shack or whatever. And I took it home and put in the pot. And it fought to get out of the pot. And it was fighting against the pot and trying to climb out. And I had to grab the lid and hold it down and keep this thing in the pot so it wouldn't escape. And it was the worst feeling ever. And I don't, I don't want to be the one doing that. So I guess I'm not, you know, okay, you know, remind me what you're saying about alone. I guess I'm not okay with killing animals and it doesn't feel good. But I have managed to kind of, you know, mentally distance myself from that when I eat meat. But like hunting wise, I don't know, I don't, I'm not really much of a gun person. So hunting is sort of been, you know, not something I think about too much. But yeah, so I, yeah, it's just this isn't like one of my fights, maybe it will be maybe it will be one day. Hmm. Yeah, it's interesting. I sort of, you know, obviously kind of leaning into having like a Buddhist belief system and that kind of thing. I remember, oh, you know, sometime over a decade ago, when I was just was like done eating all meats at any time, whether it was fish or anything like that, because I think I had a period where like, you know, in the 2000s, I was vegan for a stretch, but I actually didn't do it the right way. And I got really ill and had to like get vitamin B12 shots, like on a daily basis for a stretch of time. And literally had like my primary care provider, like like his recommendation to me was to eat a burger a week. It's like, okay, a burger a week. Yeah. And, and so, you know, then I went back to eating meat for a few years, and then when I moved out here, sort of like, oh, it's going to be hard to be vegetarian. And so I wasn't here for a little bit, maybe like a year or so, year or two. And then just slowly kind of, you know, especially when getting into, when sort of committing myself to at least being, you know, again, leaning into sort of Buddhist sort of belief systems, I was like, well, here's one thing that I can do that is like me demonstrating that I am committing to this belief system, you know. And I remember sort of when I was first vegan, I was like, yeah, I'm not doing this because of like, you know, caring about animals or anything. I just think it's like inefficient use of resources and land and, you know, water and all that kind of thing. But I think honestly, I was just fooling myself. I actually just do feel bad about the harming of animals. And like, that does make me sad. And like, you know, I think that was a reaction to some childhood things where like I was, I think, very sensitive about that, where I remember once I was in a mall and there was a mouse there, I think I was in like the assembly square plaza mall or whatever, assembly square mall. And there was a mouse in there and some girl with heels accidentally stepped on it and essentially like impaled it. And I remember going home and just like crying about it. And my dad had like console me over it. So I think I had a sort of reactivity to that because that, you know, ultimately did feel like it was too soft or something, whatever. But nope, that's just two. I am very soft about those sorts of things. And like, especially when I was coming back to being a vegetarian, like one of the like he, you know, imagery is that sort of, you know, plagued me was the idea of a fish out of water gasping for breath. Like, because that's what they do when you take them out. They're just, you know, their mouth is opening and closing. And it's this horrible sort of like, you know, clear desire to live. And like, the decision is being made, you know, by chance and arbitrariness, you know, that this is how the way of the world is going to be, according to this human who is sort of, you know, proceeding with the, you know, the, the killing of this, this being. And so that piece of imagery really gets me and then, yeah, it's really tough. And one of the things that is sort of a piece around meat consumption, you know, is this idea that, okay, well, are there like ethical ways to do this and like, would hunting be one of those? And especially if it's like, you know, you're hunting to eat this thing and like, you know, have meat for a season or whatever. And, and that's, you know, that's what my brother-in-law does. You know, when he's hunting and they like, you know, it's, they slaughter it themselves and butcher it themselves. You know, he carries it however many miles he needs to carry it from where he shot it in the wilderness. And like, is that sort of, does that have some degree of acceptability to me relative to say the, you know, industrial meat, sort of, or the meat industry and, and how that's just this extremely disconnected and cold, you know, just so uncaring kind of set of processes. And so I think like, like, I can play this sort of mental, you know, game or this intellectual game where in my mind I'm saying like, okay, well, one is less bad than the other, but then I have to like come to grips with that. And the reality is that I just don't want anything killed under any circumstance. And so like, there, there probably isn't a way, but I mean, I do appreciate when people are making attempts to do it in some way that is more connected to the creature that they've killed. But still, I'm just like, man, I just kind of like in my heart of hearts, I guess I just sort of wish that nobody ate meat under any circumstances. But then the other piece of that is like, in order to be a vegetarian or vegan, you are also responsible for the killing of creatures. And that could be insects that could be, you know, various mammalian varmints, you know, whether they're like moles or groundhogs or whatever, you know, gets into gardens or gets into farms. And not to mention if pesticides are being involved, sort of, you know, just the mass murder of, you know, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of bugs. I don't know how many it is, right? Like, it's just crazy. Not to mention that if we like spray organic pesticides on our cherry tree, you know, like, what is that doing to all the insects? And, but then it just starts spiraling, right? It starts getting extreme. And then, like, you guys know the Janists, like that religion? Yeah, yeah. Like, they only eat things that fall from trees and bushes. Like, because it's like killing to pull something off, like, yeah, farm fruit. Well, no, I mean, well, I mean, no, they would take it off the tree, but I mean, like, the idea is like, there's no farming. Oh, okay, so it has to be like, yeah, yeah, farming is like an unethical sort of profession to them, basically. And then you're just like, then, you know, what am I going to eat? Like, that's not going to work. Like, if that's what I'm going to be, I don't live in a country that's like tropical where there's just food year round that you could eat from bushes and trees. And so like, what I settle on is like, okay, I'm doing this vegetarian thing, not to mention the production of dairy can be very horrible too. But like, okay, I'm going to do this vegetarian thing. It doesn't eliminate suffering, but I'm just doing the best that I can like that. And I sort of have to come to that conclusion, right? I'm just doing the best that I can. And I, if I have opportunity to do better, I will make an effort to take advantage of that opportunity. But at some point, you have to sort of make a decision about like how much you can put into a thing, which I think maybe gets back to what you're saying Amelia, sort of like, you know, what is my fight here? Where are my fights here? What hill am I going to die on? And so those are the things that come up to me. But I often think about it and I try to see if they're, you know, I just test myself on sort of what my internal kind of values and consistency therein is, or are and yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. That is a tough question, because you really can go down a rabbit hole of what feels like conscience, like it's your conscience. But like, it just never really ends. If you like, I don't know, I just feel like I can't, I can't get too sought like, you know, I can't care about everything in a way. And so I do. But I don't know. I could see myself, and I've talked to Chris about this, like, I could see myself, it's pretty easy to be vegetarian. Vegetarian is pretty easy. It's not that hard. And like a lot of foods that I like, they'll have an easy non meat version. I mean, Indian food, half the country is veg more than half probably is vegetarian. And there's just like, so much good food. And I could eat just that. And then like sushi without actual fish in it. And even fish is like a little easier for me for whatever reason to think about. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like it's not, it wouldn't be hard. And I have actually, what are you saying, Emilio? I think I was going to say, because, you know, you mentioned India, right? And I think there is a, you know, cultural and like a, even like a country sort of bias here. So I'm thinking about like, my, where my dad grew up in El Salvador, and like, they would farm cows and chicken. And, you know, having meat was a special occasion. Typical diet was not meat. It was like rice or corn or maybe a little cheese or eggs and veggie. And then, you know, if you slaughter a cow, it was usually for like an occasion. And it was like, well, now we're going to, you know, the village is going to eat or whatever, and we're all going to have something to count. And so like, just thinking about how like, in our country, like, you know, we take meat for granted a lot and, and in a way, like, it's, it's more accessible than vegetarian options, right? I mean, it's like, yeah, the default food is, is meat in most cases. But in most other places that like having any meat is like a privilege. So it's interesting to think about like, yeah, like, you know, if we sort of extend this out, like, are we asking everyone in the world to give up meat when like, yeah, it's, it's really only this country. So you guess not this country, maybe like the Western country. Yeah, I guess it's, it's staming at something rather. Yeah, yeah. I have been hunting once. Oh, sorry, under unusual circumstances, but my mom was a travel agent, and she would do trips all around the world. And she was trying out, their company was trying out a new trip. And this was to Africa. Oh, this is when you went there. Yeah, Tanzania. And so we, part of the trip, you know, and this was like, her whole thing was like, they really went, it was called wildland adventures. And they really, you know, they would go to places that like, there weren't tours normally. And so one of the things they were trying out was, was doing a trip where you visit the Maasai tribe. And they, it was a tribe that lives essentially like hunter-gatherer still, except that they smoke a lot of weed. Tuesday? Yeah, that was a little surprise, a little surprise thrown in there that they, they're like, the guides were like, yeah, don't, don't give them any money though. Like, it'll go to the weed. They only use money to buy weed. They became, I thought they were cool before with their soup being super tall and slender and they jump really high and stuff. And now, like weed too? So cool. Yeah. So, so we, part of it was we went, we got to visit the tribe and we spent a couple days there. And one of the things that they let us do was go hunting with them. Whoa. And so, oh, my, me and my sister and my, my brother, you know, they, we went out with them and they, they didn't let us use the balls that they were using. We actually got to like, try those separately. But for the hunt, it was like, we're mostly there to observe, you know, but we like, win out on the hunt with them and spent like, you know, a couple hours out and like looking for game. And we found, and they found some game and we were, I was sort of there with them. And I, we had a translator and I asked like, is it okay if like, would it be like inappropriate or is it okay if I, could I like, throw a rock to try to catch game? Okay. And they were like, yeah, like, sure, like, you know, our goal is to, they were like, they're hunting. Like, if you, you know, if you can bring something home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I'm like, okay, like, you know, I'm going to try this. Like, I used to live kind of outside and I would like, you know, I had like a sling that I would sling at things. And I was, I was in my, you know, talked about this before, but there's not that many uses for throwing in the world. And the snowball fight, and this was another one. Trying to recapture your glory. And another moment where I was like, this, I can really throw this rock very fast. So we are running out and I'm on like the third throw. I just nail this little road, this like, squirrel, essentially in the trees, hit it every, like the tribe. Oh, they must have thought of them. Amazing. They must have thought it was amazing. It was like, it was this moment. And it was just like, they couldn't, they were like jumping around, like, it looked like, you know, obviously, like, who knows, but it was jet looked like genuine excitement. They like, they went and got it. And they offered it to me. Like, and the translator was there. And he was like, you killed it. Like there, you get to eat it. Like you get the first dip. Like right now, they started a fire. And I mean, like, Raj is like, you eat it hard. I'm still beating. And so they handed you, you start eating. They're like, we met like, we'll cook it. Just go from feral in that moment. You started up a little fire right there. They smoked weed first. Well, they cooked a while they cooked this little creature. And like, I noticed how cute the little creature was. And I looked it up later. And, and you know, I just had nailed it with a rock. And I looked it up later. And it was, it's called a bush baby. Like, I'm hoping they were hunting those. And you know, like, if you look it up later, sacred to the Maasai tribe, they have to be one of the cutest animals that ever, that ever scurried around the trees. Oh my God. Oh my God. I'm going to look it up right now so we can have it on the screen. Yeah. Let's take a look at what a bush baby looks like. Nils, like, I've eaten these. Oh my God, Lass, how could you? Look at this character, Lass. Oh, no, it's like a lemur type thing. It looks like. Yeah, but tiny, tiny. Wow, like, like maybe the cutest lemur you've ever seen in your life. Like, you just want to protect it. Yeah. And like, you know, I hope they were hunting those things. I'm sure they hunt everything. Yeah, I mean, they ate it. No question. They offered it to me. And I was like, you know what? No, thank you. But oh my God, I'm going to take this picture down. I've hunted some game. Was it a lion? No. Was it, you know, yeah, I just sort of imagine this sort of like white man's fantasy of like, you know, they gave you a Messiah name that night as a result. And you actually, I think you were given a wife as well for that story. And yeah, anyway. Yeah. Oh boy. Oh man. Well, anyway, all right. Well, it's just sort of interesting to think about, you know, I know I try to, I want to have like, I want to have my views on things sort of understood to me not, you know, in the moment that I am sort of, you know, presented with like a dilemma or conflict or that sort of thing. And so I like to kind of work through this so I can understand for myself. Well, what topics do you guys have? You know, that actually, that actually kind of connects with in a sense with what I was thinking about. Yeah, what do you got? Let's see, how do I want to intro that? So I was with the Messiah tribe. I was, I was hunting in the bush. So I was at, I was at work yesterday. And I was supposed to be working on this grant. And I, you know, I have been looking at this grant for like a month now, and I had a lot of issues with it. I don't think my organization is a good fit for it. And I had told my boss this, and he was like, well, just, you know, keep working on it. See if, you know, you can put it together. So yesterday, I'm like, I don't think this is happening. You know, in order for me to make this happen, I, I have to sort of make up some stuff because we don't do all this stuff. And I don't feel comfortable doing that. And I don't want to just submit something that's incomplete. And it's a lot of work. So I, I told my boss, I think we should just drop this. Yeah, like use your weight from getting all that money, baby. That's right. That's right. So I was like, Hey, I'm the expert grant writer here, motherfucker. Yes. I brought in, what was it? Hundreds of thousands of dollars? We're so, I will tell you guys, we are just shy of a million bucks. This, not all my work, but a good chunk of it is mine. And I get to take credit for it at the very least. Yes. Yeah. Give me grants. That's right. Make that money, baby. It's a lot of money. And I had, and actually my boss, and I had been talking about this recently, my boss who's also like my best friend. So it's not like, you know, we're arguing about this stuff. It's not the other guy. It's not the board, not the board. Right. Exactly. Okay. But, but so I, I told him, I like, I don't think we should work. I don't think we should disagree anymore. I think we shouldn't bet. I don't think we should invest any more time in this. And he kind of started pushing back, and he was like, you know, let's just see if we can get it done. I don't want to leave money on the table, da, da, da. And I'm like, well, I really think it's a bad idea. I think it's very competitive. I don't think we have a shot. I don't think we should spend what will probably be another six to eight hours of our time when we could be doing something else. And we went back and forth several times. And finally, I was like, look, let's not do it. We're not doing it. And I like, kind of, you know, had to become more firm. And, and that's not something that I do very often. I tend to, you know, cave on most of these things. Any sort of conflict, I don't like it. I will probably end up just going along with what the other person wants eventually. So my question is, but so I so now now today I'm stressing about it, because I'm like, oh, did I make the right call? What if he was right? What if I should have written the grant? This is my typical cycle of like kind of making a decision and then being insecure about and questioning doubting myself. My question to you all is, have you had a time where you have made a tough decision and then been vindicated afterwards, or like, you know, like, it was the right call. And it was like clearly the right call. And I have an example, another example that I can give as well, if you need a minute to think about. Yeah, why don't you give that example? Yeah, agreed. I'll need a moment. Yeah. Yeah. So about two years ago, we were, we adopted a second dog. We've had our dog. Oh, I remember. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah. We had our dog, you know, at that point, like five years. And we're like, let's get a second one. We went to the Humane Society. We met this other dog. Her name was Stella. She was, she looked just like our dog. We had them hang out. They got along. Perfect. Let's bring Stella home. Stella had a very like troubled past where she had been in several homes, had not worked out for various reasons. She had like gotten in fights with other dogs. So there was some doubt if we could even manage them. But we're like, we're going to really give it a shot. We think we know what we're doing. I was, you know, dedicated to spending a lot of time with the dog. So I did. I worked with them. I kept them together. They had fights. It was very stressful. Like my wife was like really upset. She wanted to get rid of Stella pretty quickly. And I was like, let's keep, you know, giving her a chance. I called trainers. I talked with them. I figured out a plan. And then we, this is, that word, like maybe three, four weeks into having Stella. And one of the trainers sent me some information, just like a presentation about like, you know, how to help a new dog adjust to the home. And I went through it. And one of the things it said, it was like, before you even adopt this dog, you know, you should think about what's coming up in your life over the next six months to a year, because, you know, it's not just that you have to get this dog ready in the short term. But like, if you kind of do all this work and get them trained, and then, you know, there's some dramatic change, like you move to another city or something like along those lines, it's going to be extremely disruptive for the dog. And you'll have to basically start over. And I, and I think about it. And I, you know, I wake up that morning and I'm like, oh, fuck, we're playing like this massive home renovation, you know, we're basically ripping out, you know, half of our house, and we're not going to be staying here. We're going to be going to Boston for a month, you know, our dog, you know, and then at Stella, we're going to be staying at a kennel for like a month. Then when we got home, there were still going to be a lot of chaos and disruption. And I'm like, this is exactly the kind of thing that like this training, this presentation is talking about that is, you know, a reason not to even adopt a new dog in the first place. And so I call the trainer again, and I'm like crying, and I'm like, I think we have to give Stella back because we're planning this renovation. And I feel so wrong about it. I don't know to do. And she's like, you're, you're, I think you're making the right call, like, you know, I give you my blessing, you know, this is not going to be good for this dog. She deserves to be in a home that is stable. And so, you know, talk to Gladys back and forth. Later that week, I take Stella back to the shelter. And it was just completely heartbreaking. And then for the next few weeks, I'm plagued with doubt. I'm like, I could have done it. I'm like, I only had a set to work hard. I just had to try harder. I could have managed with Stella, you know, we could have, we could have made it work. We could have figured it out. And then the renovation starts. And it is chaos. And so much chaos that our regular dog solo is going through hell. And like, he is, you know, being really, you can tell he's being really affected. He's like, his sleep is all messed up. He's not eating. He's like having all these stomach issues. He's super anxious all the time. He's having to go back and forth between all these different homes and the kennels and like, we're not consistent with him. And at that time, I'm like, I fucking made the right call with Stella, like, to put her through this so quickly after getting adopted would have been so unfair to her and so mean. And unfortunately, I don't know what happened with her after we returned her. But at least I'm hopeful that she had some kind of stability. It definitely would have been better than this like complete mess that we were in. And also the renovations, which were supposed to last like three, four months ended up going for like a year. And so man, it was just, you know, I so I just I even though I hated to do it and I still don't feel great about it, like I think it was the right thing to do. And I feel vindicated in that choice that like, this would have really been horrible to put her through. So that's yeah, so that's my example. So I wonder if you guys have had a time like that where also I wonder if you guys even have this issue of like kind of doubting yourself after you make a tough decision. Okay. And this came up because of the thing, the grant writing thing at work, that's sort of what sent you in this action. Yeah, exactly. Because I'm pretty sure, you know, it's too soon to say probably, but I'm pretty sure that I'm right about this grant that we should not be applying for that we don't have a shot at getting it. And that we shouldn't waste time. But I also am doubting myself and I feel bad for like kind of getting into it with my friend, my boss. But I'm trying to remind myself now, like, you know, you know what you're talking about, you know your shit, you spend time on this grant, and you're making the right choice. So I guess first, I think just like, I think this topic or this like concept, like this is a very interesting topic that I kind of like, I almost like, it makes me want to think about it a little more. Like the first ones that I can think of are sort of all like work related, professional. But I do think there's like a bigger picture where like, if I actually sort of sat down and thought about it, like there's kind of there's probably some patterns or some, you know, just this kind of like, what does it mean to like make a make that call. And because I think for me, I don't tend to dwell like once I make a call a decision, most of the time, I'm just kind of that's my new reality. I'm in it. I don't really think about it too often about whether it was the right call. I think the things that I sort of regret are the, you know, the mistakes, like the obvious mistakes, where it's like, you know, I said something that I wish I hadn't said. And that's the sort of thing that sticks with me more than, you know, I do feel like there's kind of a reason for some of the big, you've got to trust your intuition. And maybe part of that is I think you you learned to trust your intuition from looking back and seeing that you made the right call, like a lot, you know, that's kind of my impression. But I mean, I can think of it just like, I do think there's better ones, I guess is what I'm saying, then like, I think there's better personal ones than the first ones that I thought of. Yeah, like I do think, you know, I made a call several years ago, and Grace, you know, my wife kind of supported me on it, which was to build my own version of something, to build, you know, and this was like a massive project, no money. And I spent about six or seven months just kind of in, you know, spending about half my time where I could have been doing other stuff. And you know, I was like, losing money every month, kind of. And it was just a risk. And there was no guarantees that it would do anything, that it would go anywhere. And I was like, you know what, I think I can make this work. And I just kind of went for it. And it could have gone to nowhere. But like, I think that's the sort of first thing that I felt it worked out. And it was one of the best things I think I could have done. That's the one where you sold some of the code. Yeah, could be that one too. But the first one I did was before I did that, I built a similar system. And rather than sell the code, I licensed the code, which was similar, but you know, a slightly different way of doing it, then you get sort of money every year rather than one initial sale. And that was a totally new business model for me. And it took a lot of work that literally nobody knew about. I was doing it, you know, without telling anybody and just kind of spent, you know, it's a long time six or seven months worth of work. And sort of the ongoing into the unknown. But but I felt extremely vindicated after they decided, you know, they, they liked the system that they built, and they signed up, and it was all these kinds of things. And I think like, I do think there's more interesting, personal ones. But I think that have had a lot of those types of decisions in my life, where I just kind of make the decision and then move on with it and go forward with going to school, which school I went to, what major I took, I didn't know how to program before I started, I just chose computer science, because I was like, I probably built to get a job with that. It's like, that was my new reality. And then I just did my best in that. So it's like, I think those types of decisions, I don't really, I think there's a reason you sort of make those decisions. Like, it is that sort of intuition. And I think it's good to listen to that voice that's sort of saying like, you should do this. But I, you know, I don't know, I'm trying to think of something that I kind of like, either regretted or sort of thought about a lot afterwards in terms of a decision like that. But most of the things that I dwell on are things that have happened that are maybe like, maybe things that are about to happen. Maybe that's more than the thing than things that already. Or actually genuine mistakes. Like, if I made a friend feel really bad, that sticks with me forever. It's like, that kind of stuff sticks with me. But yeah, I don't really question. I feel like those. Yeah, you know, I tend to be on a similar spectrum with or end of the spectrum with that, where like, if I make a decision, like, that is my reality. And I mean, there isn't because, you know, there is like, there literally is no way to go back. So the idea of relitigating decisions that I've made feels to me like just this exercise in, you know, masochism. And so, so when I make decisions as a general rule, it's because, you know, I believe that that decision is the, you know, best possible decision I could make given the circumstances, right? Like, that's what I'm always aiming for, right? And I'm sure like everybody is, but I just kind of think like, okay, the one that I came to must have been the one that at the time I thought was the best move. And so I just have to accept that. That was what I had with the info that's what I was able to do with the information I had, and whatever other context goes from there. And it is the interpersonal ones that plague me the most when I sort of think back on things I've said or done. And I'm like, lass, I've done way more mean things and cruel things and maybe just fundamentally inconsiderate things interpersonally than lasses ever done. And like, and neither of you would disagree with me on that. It's true. No, no, no. That's great. That's great. That's good. You were two seconds too late, both of them. We'll talk later, Amelia. Yes. But like, like, so we all know that to be true. And like, you know, they're my morning time, you know, starts with a poop, obviously, but then a nice long shower and I sit down in the shower and I just sit in the dark and I don't have any lights on. And I'll just mostly have my eyes closed the entire time. And that's sort of just like alone time, you know, just coming into awareness and consciousness and that kind of thing in the start of my day. And that is the moment when, you know, a lot of sort of things that I feel shame over from my past will creep in. It's not every time I'm taking a shower and doing that. It's just sometimes. And things that I'm embarrassed about that I did or said are ways that I behaved, you know, that were shameful or whatever. And, you know, there there is only one solution to that, at least for me. But I think that this is probably relatively universal. And I just have to have compassion for the person who I am and have been. And like the, you know, I will find myself not out loud, but saying to myself like, you know, buddy, like, that is the best that you could do with the circumstances that you had at the moment. That's the best way that you knew how to be, even though it wasn't a good way, but it was the best way that you knew how to be given, you know, the way your parents are, the way that you were raised, the things that you were sort of given or not given sort of in your development as a human. And, you know, you're, you're trying. Like, you're trying, you were trying then, but you were not skillful and you didn't have the capacity to be skillful in those ways. And you're still continuing to try and that sort of it. And that's not necessarily like, you know, it doesn't like fix it. I don't just say, Oh, yeah, you're right. Me like good thought. But it is the best sort of like bomb that I have for those kinds of internal experiences. And, you know, there's nothing else to be done about it. And except I guess feel worse or continue to feel as bad as I do when those things come up for me. So, so yeah, that's kind of, that's my experience of decision making, not a hard thing for me, as sure you guys would also agree. Sort of how I am. And just like, you know, I feel pretty confident about the decisions that I make, but things that are less intentional, less sort of like volitional that I've nonetheless done or said or whatever, those are the things that tend to to play me. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I think we are the three of us apart. Well, I'm apart from two on that. But it's interesting to hear your thoughts about it because it does kind of give me more confidence in like, you know, sticking to my gun, which I'm bad at. Yeah, I'm like, I don't know, I feel like I'm maybe glossing over because like, I'm just I'm like trying to think of an example where like, because I do sometimes like, after I have a conversation or something, I do go over it. And I'm like, man, like, you know, I kind of wish I'd gone in this direction. And that's been happening like professionally with me recently, because I'm like, I've got these business relationships, these people that I don't necessarily agree with. So there's been a lot of kind of just like, okay, like, you know, maybe I could if I had done something different, I could have handled this better. But like, I also have this feeling that, like, you know what, I think I did things right. And it's just like, you can't control some of the stuff that happens. And even I don't know. So I kind of go back and forth. I feel like I'm maybe letting myself off too easy, saying I just kind of like, make a decision. And then I don't really think about it. But I think that's mostly that's true for most things. I can't really, I'm trying to like, remember a time, but yeah, I think that's I tend to make decisions very quickly. And I think it's just that like, I don't like to spend a lot of time thinking about them beforehand, because I think like, I sort of trust my my first thought on it, usually. And I just feel like it's like, I, I feels like a waste of time. So if I do have the thing, like, how am I going to do this? Spend a ton of time on it. Like, I'm gaming out all these possibilities. But like, if you look at a decision tree, like, I'm like seven levels deep. And thinking about things that like, might never happen. And there's all kinds of things that might never happen. So like, I think at this point, I kind of just go like one level deep. And I'm like, okay, here's the decision. That looks pretty good. And then I just kind of go. Yeah, I don't know. Like, what is it for you? Like, I mean, you gave some examples of like, you made the right call. And that's good. And I feel like I could try to probably think of some of those. But like, do you have times where you just feel like you made the wrong call? And so maybe that like stops you from making quick, like having that like confidence in there. Nothing immediately comes to mind. But I wonder if that's because I spend so I feel like I barely make decisions. Because I spend so much time in that tree. And then I just am like, I'll just do whatever someone else suggests, right? I'll just go with the decision, like sort of passes. Yeah. It's made by somebody else, because there was a gap in like, you know, maybe it could have gone either way. But then it's like, well, actually not deadline pass. So I guess the decision is made. Yeah, yeah, it could be a work day. It could be like, you know, something at home where it's like, oh, yeah, you need to like, you know, I need to decide if I want to, you know, install this kind of light or that kind of light. And then I kind of waffle for days. And then Gladys was like, we're going to do this light. And I'm like, okay, that's the one. That's the one I'll help. There we go. Man, I don't want I don't ever want to miss a chance to make a decision. Even if the but even if the decision is, oh, this is something where I don't need to make a decision, like, I want to be volitional about that. And so it's so funny, like, I'm like, oh, I have an opportunity to control my reality to this, you know, pathetically minor degree that, you know, is the best that we get as human beings. I'm like, great, let me do that. Because I, you know, because life is chaos. So if I have an opportunity to make a choice that I want to do that. So let's let's let me give an example here. So Christian. Yes. Somebody offers you tea. Yes. Do you like to be so like, how does that usually go down? Is it like you're happy, you know, whatever tea they may ask what they have first, what options? Yep. And you would like to choose from the options. Yes. So okay. So I will choose not to have one if I don't like the option. Okay. So so this I am very different from you. So Grace, I gave you tea this morning and you were like, well, I'll take whatever you want to give. Sure. Just kidding. That didn't happen. I was last was, that's not at all realistic. I'm just, but so so Grace is, you know, very generous with she makes tea and coffee. She makes you likes to have hot drinks herself, but she makes me hot drinks also frequently. And it is just like a microcosm. The tea as I'm using as an example, but I am generally, like, I do not like to be faced with decisions that I feel are unimportant to me. So like, if there's, so like, I think of T as an example of that, where like, she does it less now, but she always would ask me which kind of tea I wanted, and then give like seven options of tea bags that we have. And like, you know, whether like, yeah, just like options, like almost like a restaurant, like you get. And I like, I don't like restaurant options. Like, I have, I make decisions quickly, and I, but I don't like to be faced with a lot of them. I'd rather just whatever the default is, like, you know, like, if you're making tea, if you can just like throw another whatever that tea is, as well, for me, like whatever is easiest for you. And like, she wants to make it the thing that I want. And I think like, there's a disconnect where like, the thing that I don't have a specific thing in mind, I think she often does, like, she has a vision for like, oh, I'm thinking about this kind of tea, this will hit the spot this. And every now and then, I'm like, actually, you know, like a, you know, hot chocolate would be really good right now. And sometimes I think that, but most of the time it's like, if I'm being presented with like a hot tea that I had to do nothing about, and didn't have to answer any questions about it, didn't have like, that's what I want. That's the thing. It's like, wow, this was easy. I didn't have to like, make any decisions at all. So like, it sounds like Christian's the opposite of that. So which side of that tea situation are you on? To be fair, I will say if somebody's like, this is a particular way that is like really great. And I would love for like, and you're gonna love it. I'd be like, oh, okay, like you're telling me that this is an exemplary sort of option. And so like, okay, I want to know what that is. I will go that way. But it's just like, here's a range of teas. I'll be like, okay, let me evaluate those or go with my gut on that. Anyway, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. You know, so I think, you know, stuff like that actually, smaller decisions like that, I think I'm usually fine with. I usually have a preference. And you know, with tea drinking, in particular, right, we have a lot of tea in our house, but I tend to drink, you know, ginger tea. That's pretty much the only tea I drink. If there were a bunch of options and none of them were ginger, I would probably just waffle. And oh, you know, I don't know if I want Camille, maybe, or what else? Yeah, I'll just have some water. Like, no, you've withdrawn, you've withdrawn entirely. Well, wait, so, but this is, this is like indicating a specific preference. There's like some, so, okay, where's Gladys on this? Like, does she, would she want to be offered choices? Or would she just sort of want just like a cup of tea with, you know, however, you know, she sort of likes it? I would always ask her. I don't know if that's what she wants. But I would, you know, if I was just curious because it seems like, yeah, go ahead, go ahead. No, just it seems like she's made like, I just wonder if she's maybe closer to like, where, because you, you know, if you said, like, she tends to like, make decisions like that, pretty eat like, just like decisions in general, she kind of like, makes easily, right? And like, you know, I would say like, Grace tends to think about this. So I think you are sort of maybe on the closer to like, where Grace is, where like, she thinks through the decisions a lot more, thinks through the possibilities, thinks through, has more of a preference. And so I think those are kind of linked. And I almost feel like, I don't know, I guess it's a weird spectrum, because Christian sort of on the like, makes a decision fast, but also also has a very strong preference. When I have to make a decision, I just kind of go with it. But I don't like to be faced with a lot of decisions. I just, you know, tend to just kind of like, skip over them if I can. I'm excited to be faced with options. Like, I'm just like, oh, okay, like, even more things to entertain and play with fun. This is kind of fun. Oh, wait. So do you like to be like, do you have a favorite of everything? I have a favorite, like, what's your favorite movie, favorite song, favorite art song? Yeah. So I like, I'm like, the best I can do is like, top 20, top 10. I just can't, you're like, best I can do is top 100. Well, really, it's like, I don't really at different times, I'm like, in totally different moods. So I don't really have a favorite on like, most things. I'll have like, a top five of a thing. But then it's like, you know, if I have, I feel compelled to have an all around number one, like, you know, even if it's not the right thing for every circumstance, like, is this the right thing for the most circumstances relative to the other, like, then that makes it the de facto kind of. I don't like that. I don't like having to pick one thing in that way. I don't even, I've started now, like, avoiding the question or not avoiding, but like, trying to have a different kind of answer. If someone asked me, what was your favorite X, right? So like, when I went to Japan, you know, a lot of people ask me like, Oh, what was your favorite thing that you did? And my answer, you know, this happened over a few times, what became like, well, I really liked the flow of the trip, right? Like, I didn't want to pick. Oh, this monument was great. Or this, you know, museum was great, because they had different meanings at different times. But the thing that I, and I think I talked about this with you guys, the, the flow was like, I was just thinking, like, go back to that episode and hear Christian asking Emilio what his favorite thing was when he did he did in Japan. So you asked me, Oh, you said, I remember this distinctly you, because I was preparing for it. You were, you said, what was, and I was like, Oh, here we go. And then you said, what was the funniest thing that happened? Oh, I was like, Yes, Christian. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's good. I feel so good about being somebody who's surprising sometimes. Yeah, I love it. It was great. And I was so, and I was like, Oh, and I had to think about it. And I think I had an answer. But yeah. So, but yeah, so that's what I find myself doing is like, and yeah, it's sort of situational. Like, if you ask me to pick my favorite movie, it's like God, I don't know what kind of mood am I in, right? Like, you know, I mean, generally, like a lot of movies. I also like, I'm, I think I'm increasingly resistant to trying to pit things against each other. Because the kids always like they've sort of like this urge to like, have a favorite something, like, and to like, it's almost like, it's, it's putting things in this, like, to me, I'm like, feel now, like, there's no real need to have like a hierarchy of like the things you like. And so like, even recently, like Hazel, or even recently, like my, my daughter, like, interviewed me for school. Oh, and it's just something they were doing, probably for Father's Day or something, you know, so she came and she asked me some questions and, and like three of them were like your favorites. And, and like, I was like, what do you think? And I asked her like, what do you think my favorites are? Like, what would you guess? And she was like, I don't know, you don't really have favorites. And I was like, that's exactly correct. Like, that is kind of the truth now. Like, I, you know, I was like, I can probably list off my top favorites in some things. But, you know, I was like, I don't really believe in favorites that much. And you can put that down if you want to. And just disappoint everyone. Yeah. Who reads your report on it? But I know I did end up giving. I was like, if okay, you know what, we should write down, like, it was like favorite book. Like, I suppose I should have an answer. But it's pretty tough. It's very tough to actually try to think of like pitting the two books against each other, or several books against each other, considering like what each role each has had like as a role in my life. And it's like, I don't need to pit them against each other. They said their thing. Yeah, it isn't very like human thing to like categorize things, you know, in these ways. Maybe. Yeah, I mean, it is. But like, I'm like, why? I think it feels cultural rather than human. Maybe, maybe. That's interesting. I mean, it kind of goes back for me to our previous discussion, where it's like, I want to know what I think and feel about a thing before I'm presented with the circumstances that require me to, or that, you know, challenge me in the moment. I want to be ready, basically. And there's not like, and when I say that, it's not doesn't even have like an anxious sort of aspect to it of sort of preparedness in case of danger. But it's just sort of like, I just want to know what the content of my thought processes are or whatever. But like hearing you talk, hearing you guys talk about it, I'm like, oh, you know, like, there probably is a lot of value in letting go of these sorts of ideas. And I don't know if that feels a little, that feels a little bit like it's pushing on sort of like a growth edge for me, probably. Because everything you guys are saying is true. It's like, well, it depends on how I'm feeling. It depends on the circumstances. And I think for me, it's like, again, it's like, okay, my favorite thing is the thing that in most circumstances, whatever. But like, you know, what is the utility of that thought process? It can be valuable perhaps for conversation and interpersonal sort of things. Like, I do think exchanges of interest and sort of the things that you feel more strongly about than others is a valid way of connecting with other people. And I enjoy that process. But because like, if you have something that you're excited about and somebody else is excited about that too, that's a great point of connection. And if you're not necessarily feeling the strength of sentiment around something, then that interaction maybe is not going to be an option for you with that other person. So I mean, obviously, I'm having a lot of ambivalence about it. You know, oh, you definitely get it. It doesn't preclude like excitement about something. I think it's the it's the comparison to other things that is it kind of loses for me because like, but what is your favorite if not the thing you're most excited about? Yeah, I mean, but like, I guess it's like, maybe you really just have to get into a category if you're gonna do favorite because like, you know, it's like, yeah, like maybe the Simpsons is my favorite TV show, but like, maybe it's Andor, like maybe like, and like, they're just so different. They're just, I feel like, even if you go close, they're just different. They're still in different categories in my head. Like, it's so it's the comparison doesn't always ring true. I still just have all these things that I've enjoyed in so many different ways. And so I, it's very tough for me to, I mean, I do, I can still rank them if I really try, I think, but I just I'm moving away from rank it. Yeah, there is a there's like, the question that I used to get a lot when I worked with teenagers was like, Oh, you know, what's your favorite song or what kind of music do you listen to? And you know, I listened to a lot of different music and like, right, I would have to kind of default to, well, I mostly listen to hip hop and it sort of felt boring. And it kind of felt like the conversation didn't really go anywhere from there. And so I started asking people like, well, what are you listening to right now, right? Like, what's on your, yeah, like this week? I think that is like, what's what's hitting me right now? And then you get like, Oh, now that's, I'm feeling this way. And I'm listening to this or whatever, right? Like, yeah, kind of conversation. No, I totally agree with that. And I've used that trick for other things, like, where it's like, if I'm trying to, if I'm talking to someone that I haven't seen in a while, there's a million things you could talk about. Like, like, this is maybe family too, like, you know, family that I don't get to see that often, or like, and if you're like, get into this conversational mode of like catching up on what's been going on, it feels very removed, boring. And like, I want to know what people are doing. What I found is like, what'd you do today? Like that question, that gives you a window into their life in the same way. And you can then be like, Oh, how'd that come about? And that leads to other things. But then it's like, it feels more in the moment, it feels more relevant. And I just, I've found that it just, it sparks more. And I think that's, that feels what you're saying about the music. What are you listening to this week that has that same kind of feel to it, where it's like, yeah, that is interesting for whatever reason. Like, I can tell you, I've been listening to this song called Two Times, like, I just discovered it a couple weeks ago, and I've been listening to it every day for like, like a month now. And the whole family knows it now, because I listen to it, and they have to listen to it. And now they might even like it. And it's like, do it songs too. And it's awesome. Yeah. And it's more interesting than like, well, I sort of listen to, you know, I don't know. That's funny. I do want to hear what people have been up to since the last time I saw them. But I will say a common question that I'll ask somebody, even if I haven't seen them for a while, is like, how was your day? Because I do think that is a nice thing. Yeah, hear about it. And that does also intro. Yeah. Yeah. The worst is when I'm making small talk of people and they're like, so what do you, what, how's your job going? And I just have started seeing straight up like, hey, let's not talk about work. What's going on with you? Like, what are your hobbies right now? Or like, what's something interesting that you learned? Like, I don't know, something different, anything else. But talking about my fucking job, like, please. Of course. But I love hearing, I also like hearing about, and I will ask you guys actively about how things are going and your jobs too, like with your work. But I will say also, like, I think I've recently disclosed to you guys that I've been having like some really bummer things happening at work. But that's been going on for months, months, and I kind of refrained from talking about it, because I also kind of, I certainly don't want to, I don't want talking about my work to be the thing that I talk about. And so, I won't really talk about it unless it's really something, either good or bad, or I'm asked about it, basically. Or I'm talking to somebody who's a friend, but also kind of a colleague. But yeah, I mean, although I do like hearing about it, you guys' jobs and other people's jobs, because we spend a lot of time doing our jobs and that I want to find that balance between like, understanding like, yeah, we don't all necessarily want to be identified as the job that we do, but at the same time, it is a huge part of our lives. And I don't want to neglect that truth either. Christian, what are you listening to these days? What are you listening to? Oh man, you know, I have been getting into the latest St. Vincent album, because I've liked her for many years at this point, even though she's been sort of hit or missed for the past few years. But there's something very cool about this latest album, which has a lot of sort of stuff that's reminiscent of like 90s radio head and like, Portis head, all of the heads. No, but it's like, it's, it's really, it's this great homage to, I think the things I really loved about 90s music in. And so that's been a really cool album. I haven't listened to it as much as I'd like to, because I don't often find time to listen to music, but that's, that's what I'm kind of buying. Nice. I'm going to look that up. And you said you're listening to two times, Les? Two times by Ann Lee. Yeah, yeah. I see it here. Okay, I'm going to check this out. It's essentially like somehow a Venga Boys song that I missed in the 90s. Ah, you shared this. That's right. Yes. Oh, did I already share with the guys? Oh, I don't, I don't think I remember. I think it was in our other chat. Yeah, I think you should. Oh, oh, the chat just with you two, huh? Cool. The other podcast. For our music podcast. No. The other secret podcast. Yeah, it's even more secret. Oh my God. Beautiful. There it is. I was just listening to the Venga Boys a couple weeks ago. Oh, man, you've got to check this thing out. Oh, man, they're terrible. But now we've taken that song, you know, their big song, and we've turned it into the potty song for Ramona. We like to potty. We like to potty. We like to potty. Oh, okay. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. I have another one for you. What is that? We're going to eat pizza. Okay. The song is actually called, We're going to Ibiza. It's by the Venga Boys. Oh my God. It sounds like they're saying we're going to eat pizza. So you have, you'll have two Venga Boys songs for activities with your, with your dog. I don't think you ever need to convince kids with a song to eat pizza though, but I do like just having a pizza song. I have a pizza song. We're going to check it out sometime. It's perfect. It'll be great. It'll be great. And it'll be exactly the same as all the other Venga Boys song, which is, we're going to eat pizza. Do, do, do, do, do, do. You know this song. Exactly. Yeah. I wasn't sure you heard it. Yeah, you know it. Oh, man. Cue the old man dancing at Six Flags. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Oh, God. What do you listening to right now, Emilio? I, I actually, I don't have anything. I'm not listening to anything. Our whole concept just failed. Yeah. I mean, that was your concept, Emilio. Why? Yes. Why do you ask that? I don't like music. The stuff that I've heard most recently is all the Drake and Kendrick stuff. And I'm just, I'm kind of over it. I love, I love listening to that BBL Drizzy song all the time. That song is pretty great. I don't know that one. Oh, man. It's a look it up. It's, um, it came out of the whole beef, the, the guy, uh, uh, Metro, what's his name? Metro something. Oh, Metro, the guy did the, uh, Spiderverse stuff. Uh, I don't know. He's a producer. Um, yeah. That's, he, he's the Spiderverse guy. Yeah. So he, he was on the Kendrick side of things. And then he put out this song in the middle of the beef, uh, called BBL Drizzy, which sounds like almost like, uh, older, like Motown or funk song. Um, okay. It's not much to it. But what I found was interesting about it is that, uh, you know, it has this sample and the sample is like this, like singers, like BBL Drizzy. And it's very catchy. And you're like, where did he even find this sample? Like who would be saying BBL Drizzy? And it turns out it's AI generated. Uh, and so it's like, uh, AI, you know, he, some, someone made an AI, I don't know if he made it or someone else made it, but like an AI song. And then he sampled that and like sped it up and used it in his song. Hmm. So AI music guys, it's coming to the future. Yeah. Yeah. They're gonna give us those, those new genres. Yes. That's right. Yeah. This is the BBL Drizzy genre. Yeah. By AI. Um, man. Yeah. Anyway, that ambivalence I'm feeling about this whole thing. I'm like, my thought is, Oh, I should resolve what it is that I feel about this. So I don't need to have that ambivalence presence anymore present anymore, which again, is that like, uh, fear based thing or an anxiety based thing. I'm not quite sure, but it's kind of like, it's like, I just feel compelled to know what it, where it is that I come down on this, you know. And is it like, do I set the intention to be more growth oriented with this? Or is it something else? Or it's just like, yeah. Oh, I, I'm curious where you'll, where you'll end up. I think probably I'm probably going to move toward the direction that you guys are in, because I think it is more for lack of a better way of putting it. I just think it's more budistic to sort of be moving in the direction that you guys are saying. I'm like, well, what are my core values? Okay. My core values are trying to, you know, relinquish judgment, especially where it's, you know, relatively easy to do. It's like on lists of favorites, like it's a relatively easy thing. That's going to be something that would be a nice fetter to shed. So, um, you know, uh, it's probably a direction that I'm leaning, just have to think about how to do that and what that means. Next week's topic, I'm going to do like a top 10 list for you. Top 10 fetters. Top 10 hindrances. This is all Buddhist language. Yeah. That's really funny. Top 10. Yeah, no, it's legit. Like, that's what they talk about, you know. Uh, I don't, we didn't get a topic for you last, but it has been two hours. Yeah. My topic would be the first thing. Okay. Cool. Well, good work, everyone. Yes. Let me go ahead and stop recording here. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] (gentle music)