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So Mike Groes got to interview with Marvin Harrison, junior Malik, neighbors and Roma Dunes, all at once. And they all did fantastically. Mike Groes said it was the best interview he ever had with wide receivers. And then at the end, when none of those receivers were in the room, someone, I can't remember who, but someone asked Mike Groes. If you had your selection of one of those three receivers, who would it be? And he said Malik Neighbors. How cool is that? Or do you think he recorded three separate scenarios where he said each of those receivers names just for hard knocks? No, I think it's genuine. I think Mike Groes, number one wide receiver in this glass was Malik Neighbors. That's Giants wide receiver coach Mike Groes. And John Merritt was in the room and he was like, Oh, wow, really? Over Mark? He's like, yeah. That's pretty good, man. No, it's not like you're it. But like, you know, that's what John said and John's got to be in on everything. He's talking about the, we'll talk about his, the quarterback's up with John in a little bit, John Merritt. But, you know, Mike Groes got his guy. I think that was literally his number one wide receiver's board. And he wasn't alone. Brian Dable loved him. Brian Dable made mention of having a conversation with Nick Saban. Nick Saban said there were two guys in the SEC that were problems for us. It was Malik Neighbors and Brock Bowers. And we even heard throughout the episode how important the Giants view playing in the SEC. Ernie Acorze talked about it with Eli Manning and why that stood out. John Merritt confirmed, you know, part of it was playing in the SEC Brandon Brown's like, yup, yup, that does matter. And clearly Brian Dable and Joe Shane, it mattered to them because Malik Neighbors to me sounded from this episode. Like, they're clear cut number one option after maybe Mark. Now, I don't know if Mike Groes would have gotten his way if Mark was on the board. That I'm not sure, because it seemed like Joe Shane was into Marv. Sure, Brian Dable was. That would have been interesting to save. It was between Mark, like, if somehow J.J. McCarthy went for Nick and then Joe Alt went five. What would the Giants have done? Marver Neighbors. I'm curious if Mike Groes would have got his way that way. But it was definitely interesting to see. And by the way, in that interview, Nick, I love that, you know, we had two episodes ago. The Giants asked Jaden Daniels to recite a play call in his interview and he kind of got it wrong, if we're going to be honest, twice he had two chances. They put, Mike Groes put Malik Neighbors on the spot with what sounded like a pretty tough question to me, at least, from next to those standpoint, and Neighbors snap answered it and it was right. So I just thought that was really interesting. I don't think he gets a lot of credit for his football IQ, Malik Neighbors. Though if you watch the tape, you can clearly see that he's a very nuanced football player that actually does have a high football IQ. Even watching him run routes at his pro day, you can see some of the ways at the top of his breaks that he is maneuvering his body that would throw off a defensive back. There are those little nuances that maybe didn't always come up on film because he was running open, very frequently creating separation and the offense also assisted in that. But I think he is going to be just a dynamite player for the New York Giants. I'm really excited about Malik Neighbors. I'm with you on that. I think he's going to be much better for the people say, "Oh, what's the difference between Giants offense now?" And then they had Saekon Barkley. They lost Saekon Barkley. They got Malik Neighbors. I think you'll see. I think Malik Neighbors is going to put it together a lot more explosive plays this season than Saekon Barkley did last season. And that's 40-plus yard plays. I don't think he's as reliant as Barkley was on the players around him. Barkley was reliant on the offensive line. Barkley was reliant on the quarterback, actually commanding respect from opposing defense and dropping safeties and playing corners off the line of scrimmage, indeed, and my best off the line of scrimmage. Malik Neighbors doesn't need any of that, really. Just get him the ball in space, hit him in stride, and he will do the rest. And that's just one way he wins. He wins as a route runner. He wins on the vertical plane. He wins at all three levels. That's not something you can really say about Saekon Barkley, in my opinion. You needed some semblance of good blocking for Saekon Barkley to work or some semblance of good play design, one of the two. I'm not sold, you need either, for Malik Neighbors. I think he's that talented. I think at times that showed, by the way, on tape, I don't think Jane Daniels was perfect at all with some of the plays that Malik Neighbors made. I love a great deal as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to enter a parallel universe or go through some elaborate labyrinth just to save a few bucks. It has to be easy. No hoops, no BS. So when Mint Mobile said it was easy to get wireless for $15 a month with the purchase of a three month plan, I called them on it. Turns out, it really is that easy to get wireless for $15 a month. It's easy to switch to. The website has a good interface. I have a couple buddies who have recommended this to me. They speak highly of Mint Mobile. Let's start at go to mintmobile.com/bbb. That is three B's. There you'll see that right now, all three month plans are only $15 a month, including the unlimited plan. Plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. 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But I don't know if my neighbors got good quarterback play until this last season with Jayden Daniels. I feel like he had pretty average quarterback play before this. On that note, maybe he's proven already that he can deal with this type of adversity. Let's be honest, the Giants have struggled to move the ball through the air. I think Daniel Jones, I saw this at the other day, Nick. He's averaged 208, 208 yards passing in his career. That's not a number that will obviously, if it continues, lead to Nick neighbors getting the volume he wants. He doesn't want just 200 yards of a passing game and he gets his piece of that pie, whatever that may be. He's going to want a 250 to 300 yard per game type passing offense. And so now we'll get him his due. But I think he's dealt with worse at LSU or equal. So I think there is at least some evidence that he can play through that level of adversity. We'll see though. You're right. So let's move on to Theo Johnson. He made a little bit of an appearance in this episode at the beginning of the episode at Penn State Pro Day. We saw Carmen Brasillo talking, Giants offensive line coach Carmen Brasillo talking with Sake Wambarckley about some of the additions along the offensive line. Carmen Brasillo said something to the effect of Jermaine Illuminati. He's like my son. I've been playing for me for a while. He loves him. Runyon's an athletic smart player who's going to come in and say, "Well, okay, that's cool." And then we saw Theo Johnson running and there were a couple of New York Giant front office guys being like, "Oh, he's so tall. And he's so fast. Oh, he's so explosive." It was a little bit weird the way they were saying it. And then they were like, "He'll be the second Titan off the board. He's checking every box a long way." I was like, "Yo, they were really into Theo Johnson." And they were able to get him with a day three pick. That's exciting. And then excited then for sure. It is. And for all those people during draft season, we're like, "The Giants didn't do it. They didn't take BPA in the fourth round with Theo Johnson. They just took the need. They just kept drafting for need." Clearly, that's not the case. He was obviously their best player available on the board that deep into a draft on day three if he was their tight end two in this class. So, yes, it did fill a need ultimately, but it was also clearly their best player available. And think about it this way too. If he was their tight end two, which we're not 100% certain of that, someone just said the Giants and she's their tight end two, so we're not 100% sure of that. But they were debating on scenarios where they would take the tight end one Brock Bowers in the top 10. That did not happen. They get the star receiver. And then they end up getting their tight end two in round four on day three. That's a win. Yeah, if they get their e-vals right, correct. And we'll see if they do, but I feel good about these two prospects. I really do. I spent, obviously, neighbors goes out saying, "But I do feel good about Theo." But couple notes also, I thought it was interesting that Priscilla, just a quick take away mention. Runyon could give them some center flex. I thought that was very interesting. Maybe that is more of a long lines that we doubt that's going to happen. Runyon was likely to be locked into guard. But it does kind of give me the feeling that Priscilla and the Giants, after they met and talked about last season, didn't feel great about what they had behind John Michael Smith's at center. So, I know that they kind of probably felt like that's one area they need to at least give themselves more of an opportunity to get some depth at this offseason. Yeah, I mean, it's, you just small versatility. That's going to be an absolute disaster of John Runyon's force to play center. Who's going to play guard? What happened to John Michael Schmitz? I mean, it's like worst case scenario at that point. But it's good to just have competent smart football players who can handle responsibilities that typically are not theirs. You're damn right. And another interesting note, they finally had a little bit of Mike Kafka, Giant Solvin's coordinator in this episode. I mentioned earlier what he said about Drake May, going up and get your guy you have a conviction on. But he also confirmed that he really likes the Giants three receivers they had. They said Shane mentioned the three at receiver. I don't know who he was referring to. I assume it's Juan Del Hyatt and Slaton, though it could be obviously one Del Hyatt and Hodgins or something like that. I'm just going to go along the lines of it's Juan Del Hyatt and say, I get the feeling that Mike Kafka does not feel like the wide receiver position has at all held back the Giants. Something I completely agree with him on. Do I think that they had stars before the drafted neighbors? No. Do I think you need star receivers to work in the NFL? No. I think a passing game is mostly down to the quarterback in the offensive line play and a great quarterback with a solid offensive line can do a lot with very little at wide receiver. And it's mostly a timing based rhythm based thing passing in the NFL. But clearly, Mike Kafka agrees because he felt good, but it's not like it's not to say that he didn't want extra talent. Nobody's ever getting extra talent, but I did think it's interesting to hear at least according to this episode, Kafka, who's the Co-O-C is pretty damn high on Juan Del Hyatt, two players that were also very high on. I would hope so. I mean, you spent pretty high draft capital on them. You were both, well, Kafka was there for both of that. I mean, a second and third round pick. I think we have yet to see the best from either. Obviously, they're both still young players. I think Juan Del is only going to ascend. And I think Jalen Hyatt should be a difference maker now at this point, especially with Malik neighbors. If the Giants can block and Daniel Jones can deliver the football, this wide receiver core could be. I'm not going to say special because there are a lot of wide receiver cores around a league, but special relative to what the Giants have had over the last 10 years for sure. I completely agree with that, and we'll never know until the offense gets a little bit more on track from Baskin standpoint, but the stats do not tell the story when it comes to Jalen Hyatt and Juan Del Robinson. I want to get a little into the John Maris stuff, Nick. He mentioned, "I'm very nervous about giving away too much for a quarterback." He says, "But then followed that by saying it's very reminiscent of 20 years ago when a course he made his play." So that kind of confused me because it's like, "Well, you were nervous about it then. You're nervous about it now. But 20 years ago, it really worked." So maybe it's just like the normal nerves you would have. But he also did say, and we heard this reported before the draft, Nick, he said, "If you guys have a quarterback conviction, I support it." And that was pretty clear to me at least, that John Maris is not going to get in the way of the Giants doing what they want to do or Joe Shane doing what he wants to do from a management standpoint. And he talked about how this was 20 years ago with Eli Manning. And Joe Shane made it clear, Nick, that he wants to take a shot in the scenario because he doesn't think that he'll be picking this high again. But I did think that something that Korsy mentioned in that little clip, Ernie Korsy, the former Giants fan who traded up for Eli Manning, was interesting because he said, "One of the things that, and Maris confirmed this, that drew them to Eli Manning and a Korsy to Eli Manning and his conviction to give up all that capital and go get him instead of just taking Ben Ralzperka, who reportedly Tom Coughlin wanted at the time, was that one, he played in the SEC, but two, he did a lot and made a ton of plays without a lot of supporting casts around him. I wonder if that played a role in the Gedelman-Marrow decision to draft Daniel Jones at 6th, didn't play with a lot of talent around him at Duke. Now, quite clearly, Nick, if you look at the stats, Daniel Jones did not make a lot of plays individually that Eli made, Jones was never above 60% completion rate at Duke. Not one season, he was, I think, 117th and average depth of target, just a lot of underneath quick stuff. It wasn't like anything like watching Eli Manning at Ole Miss, but they do have that thing in common, where neither Daniel Jones or Eli had any supporting talent at all at college. So did you think that played a role at all? Maybe a little bit, I think so. It was more so probably giving the no Daniel Jones, but Dave Gedelman, you know, he was there when Eli Manning was drafted by the New York Giants. They will draw back on their previous experiences and relate them to what's going on in the present. And I think John Marrow was doing that all throughout this episode as he kept harkening back to 20 years ago with Ernie of course, and although that worked out, it gave him heart palpitations. And I do like the fact that you brought up a little bit ago and that John Marrow mentioned, like, "Hey, I'm not going to get in the way." That was deliberately added to by HBO. But at the same time, like, I think you really need a good sales pitch to get John Marrow on board. And Joe Shane, like, even before he called Elliot Wolf, he said something to the effect of, "I gotta call John first, or I'm about to talk to John about it." So I think you really need a very good sales pitch to get him on board, but he's not going to necessarily, I think, override your decision-making process. But dude, if you do something and he's not fully on board and it doesn't work out, or if it looks bad in the first year, he might pull the plug on it. Like, there's more than just, "Hey, you're good, or you're not good with this decision-making process. Does that make sense?" I think that makes a ton of sense. I think we've seen it by him pulling the plug on head coaches twice recently within two years, or three times actually, McAdoo, Shermer, and Joe John. So I think it's very clear. I thought you made a great point though earlier, Nick, that I want to pack a little bit more, which is, I think it's clear not only from this episode, you said it, and from past episodes, but also past actions, that the Giants are an organization with John Marr as their owner that will draw back on things that have worked in the past. Is that a good thing? That's what I'm thundering. In your mind, is that a good thing? Because I think quarterbacks come in all different shapes and sizes. I think winning comes in all different shapes and sizes. I don't necessarily think the past is a harbinger for the future in any way whatsoever in life, but also in building football-winning teams. But I think it is in the case of the Giants. I really do believe what you said is true, Nick, that they are looking back on things that have worked in the past to try to do things differently, or even just Marr mentioning, "I'm getting reminders to the past 20 years ago in the strong back on things that happen." Instead of just looking forward to what is to come, what are your thoughts on that? No, I think you're right. I think the hiring of Dave Gedelman was in part a step towards what you were just said, right? Like, you want to bring back somebody who knows the organization to try and rekindle Eli Manning's career now that it is in the latter years. You bring him in, and that's one reason why we were so excited when the Giants went out and they hired Joe Shane. It was somebody outside of the building with someone who would bring a fresh perspective to the New York Giants. That's something I believe they so desperately need because they're a very conservative oriented organization, and they're going to look back in the past, but this is the way that we won back in the year 2000. Let's do that again, and that doesn't always translate when you have such a different game right now with RPOs and hybrid defenses and everything that's going on. So I think the Giants coaching staff and the Giants staff in general, they're not afflicted by that mindset, but when it comes from the top down, it can affect the decision-making process. Maybe I just value or believe that the front office and the guys that Joe Shane has surrounded this team with, they're not going to be bogged down by that mindset. But you still have to get things past John Mera, so I guess it would afflict them to some degree. Yeah, I mean, look, Nick, I'll be honest with you and the listeners, I am in some way concerned about this because I don't necessarily know if they're learning from past mistakes and I don't necessarily know if they've made changes. It seemed on paper like they made this drastic organizational change by bringing in Joe Shane and Brian Dable. And I do think John Mera is giving him a ton of leash to do what he wants to do here. But at the same time, I think it's clear that they are an organization that uses the past to try to predict the future in some ways. Still, I don't know if that's just gone with the they've got on when firing as much as we would have hoped and would like to see it gone. That's not always going to be a bad thing. Like you said, sometimes you'll hit that way, but it just didn't get a good feel with John Mera. Keep referencing this Eli thing, especially when it's just like the situation is so different than and now. And even Joe Shane made that clear to him, right? Joe Shane was like, because John Mera is like, well, listen. He's like, listen, Joey, when we did it 20 years ago, the main thing was, of course, he sold us that. You know, he won the SEC did this. We had to get him. So if you have a conviction on him, like, I told you, I'm not going to get away your question. Joe Shane's like, look, it's not his, Joe Shane didn't say this in his words, Nick, but he's basically like, it's not a conviction, dude. It's, I don't think we're going to be drafting anywhere near this high. And I really like one of these three quarterbacks. We've shot at one of the top three quarterbacks. And we have a clear tier of these top three quarterbacks. I want to get one of those top three orders. So for Shane, it was more of just like, look, the math of the situation, we value quarterback as a position. We believe in Daniel to an extent, but we know we can upgrade it and we can really win in the NFL with a really great quarterback. When are we going to get a chance to draft the top three quarterback again? That's how I read Shane from his reaction to Mera, though, to me was, you better have a conviction on this guy, or I don't want to do this thing. It was more of that. That's how I felt. I agree, but I also think we're reading into this because it's only a couple, you know, comments from like a second. And we only got it. We only get a little bit to work off of here. But it also, it is funny as now I give opinions on something that I just detracted from, right? It worked out, John. Like, whatever worked out. I'm nervous about it. It worked, dude. And then like, I didn't get that, too. Yeah, I don't know. So we got two Super Bowls out of the Alignment, and one of the, I would say him and Lawrence Taylor are like the two faces of the franchise. Right? And regarding just being like Hall of Fame elite type of players. There's been plenty of others. But Eli Manning is the face of the modern day New York Giants organization. We could only hope that a trade up for a guy like Drake Mayor, Jane Daniels could have provided us half of that type of beautiful lifestyle that we just absolutely miss at this point. It does. It was a long time ago. It really was. But God, I hope that Jones can take that step forward. They got him the receiver. The best talent he's ever had a receiver. Clearly Mike Kafka and the staff likes the talent, the surrounding receivers, two, three, four now. He's got a lot of talent to work with if the whole line can hold up. And he's got to get the fricking ball out there on time. Lead the receiver and put it into a spot where you can catch the ball and do something with it because, look, Joe Shane was clear in my mind about what happened at the end of this episode. He said, if a league neighbors is on the board or Marv Harrison, we're taking him. Otherwise, we might trade back. But he said, I'm happy with neighbors or a dunes a we trade back. It's a dunes a or Brock powers. They wanted skill player and they felt like these skill players were clearly the best option for them if they didn't get a quarterback. And so they went out and got their second best option here. Maybe, or maybe best, depending on who you ask quarterback first receiver, but they got a top option a receiver. They got the receiver they wanted their wide receiver coach wanted him more than Marv Harrison Jr. for God's sake. So it really feels like I like what Brandon, I think it was Brandon Brown, Nick said this at the beginning of the episode or at one point in the episode. He's like, when you're drafting this high, it's really important that you maximize the value of this pick. And I feel like that played a big role in deciding to go neighbors. And I think neighbors really will give them a chance to maximize the value of the six pick. And in a lot of ways, take this franchise forward. Now, it may not happen right away if the quarterback play doesn't improve, if the online play doesn't improve. But eventually, Malik neighbors, I think, will take this franchise forward. Malik neighbors is going to be one of the best wide receivers the Giants have had since Odell Beckham Jr. We said it so many times at this point. So let's see it happen now on the field. And hopefully that opens up more opportunities for the rushing attack that does not have saquon Barkley now for the tight end position that does not have Darren Waller now. And for the young receivers who are being developed and also Darius Slayton, who was the wily veteran at this point, makes me feel old because I remember covering a fifth round pick Darius Slayton be like, who is this guy out of Auburn? Holy crap. He's doing so well. And now he is the old vet on the weather that one. Yeah, he's in a vet in the room. Oh, this is like 28. Maybe no 27. There is a 27. Let's say 27. Let's say 27. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. He's probably looking for a contract. Definitely looking for a contract. And we'll see if you can get the playing time he needs. But Nick, anything else on this episode that's set out to you? I want to hold off on the stuff from next week's episode. Talk about it then. Some trade up options. We'll get more info. But anything we missed from this episode. From this episode, no, I think we hit on everything other than when the song came on at the beginning of the episode, I did not know if that was Randy Newman or Kermit the Frog. I think it was a lot like theme. I think it was a bit. Yeah, it's definitely interesting. I thought it was Randy Newman at first. And I was like, no, I think it was something to do with Kermit the Frog. Is Randy Newman the guy who's saying, do you remember that song Short People? Short People. No, I do not remember that. Yeah. No reason. Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's definitely Randy Newman. Yes. Oh my God. Quick story. My brother shout out Matt Schneider listens to this podcast. My dad who listens religiously, Matt doesn't listen as much. He's a bad brother. And I say that all the time, but I'm joking. But I'm joking. I'm joking. How are you joking? No, that's that's actually a Tim Robinson reference from. I think you still leave. I'm joking. I'm joking. But you wouldn't get that one Nick, but Dylan's shout out Dylan's burger. But my dad used to play that song in the car all the time. And for some reason, my brother was personally offended by it. And he thought it was like about him, like Short People. And I was just always going to remember that song. When he put it on in the car and me and my dad would just get a good laugh messing with Maddie and giving him a lot of shit about Short People. Because the time I guess he felt like he was short, but he was just a kid. He was like, yeah, to make him feel better, you should play. You got a friend in me. Yeah. Another all star hit. All right. And that's all we have for today. Giants are our knocks episode for recap. Keep it locked and loaded training camp is on the way. So that's where the coverage is headed for us. But obviously we'll recap the rest of our knocks as well. And maybe add in some other stuff too. Have a great rest of your night or day and we'll talk to you soon. [BLANK_AUDIO]
