It’s mango season! What are the best ways to buy, store and use them? Noris Ledesma renowned expert has answers for us. Jacqueline Coleman speaks with Alessandra Esteves, Director of Wine Education for Florida Wine Academy and 305Wines, about her wines to drink in hot weather.
Food, News & Views with Linda Gassenheimer
Food, News & Views, Ep 229: Mango Season!, Noris Ledesma, Wine Education Alessandra Esteves
[music] Hi, I'm Linda Gassenheimer, and welcome to Food News and Views. Glad to have you joining us. I love eating a ripe mango, especially if I can get one that's still warm from the sun. Mango's are such a real treat, so what are the best eating ones, and how do I choose and store them? There's so many questions. My guest is Narisse the Desma, and she's a legend in South Florida, her horticultural society. She's a renowned expert in her field. She works with mangoes from all over the world, and she's here to give us some answers. So welcome, Narisse. Thank you, Linda, for having me. Nice to meet you again. Yeah, always, always a pleasure. So you're an amazing mango expert. First, just tell us a little bit about your mango background, and by the way, although this is audio, I can see her, and she's sitting in a grove with many mangoes all around her. Well, I'm a mango lover, like many of you that are listening right now. I grew up in a mango farm, and I never expected to be doing mangoes professionally speaking, and I got the luxury to do mango curator at Fairchild Tropical Botany Garden for 25 years. Do you have mango curator? Yes, for 25 years at Fairchild Tropical Botany Garden, if you come to Miami, that's a place to visit, and we have many places to do mango hunting. The other one is Bruton Spice Park, the only ethnic botanic botanical garden in the United States. Everything is edible, and we just had a mango festival two weeks ago, so hurricane season is no hurricane season. It's a lovely time to visit South Florida. Wow. Wow. Well, okay, now last year was an amazing one. The trees were over producing. There were mangoes everywhere, and they were wonderful and great. Now, I understand that this year will be a much reduced harvest. Can you explain that to us? Well, mangoes like the heat that we have, but doesn't like humidity, and we have a very special year, but in my view is depending what you choose to grow here in South Florida, we have so many options to grow the right mango for our special humid weather. So we have probably 500 different mango cultivars in our community, and we have plenty of those than our winners in our heat and humidity. Right. So, for example, it so happens, I have a mango tree, actually it's my neighbors, but it's in my yard anyway, and it's not producing anything this year, and it over produced last year. Is that usual that can happen that it takes a year off in between? I have some mangoes they do, but they are mangoes, and they come bloom even in bad years. For example, a fertile mango is a mango that is very resistant to diseases. So what happens with the humidity is the fungus, they just grow and spray out, and some mangoes that they are very resistant to those diseases, those fungal diseases. For example, malica is another one that is very resistant. I have a bunch of malica mangoes this year in my trees. I lost abundance. So it depends on the type of tree, because my next question was going to be, since it's been such a very, very hot year everywhere, I mean, all over the world, wherever the mangoes are grown, is that affecting the crop? Yes, it is affecting the crop because we are using the wrong kind of mangoes right now. We are using mangoes, and they are not handling all these different changes of the weather. For example, if you are talking about the mangoes that are coming from Mexico, which are the majority of the mangoes that we received and you can buy at the store, the production is having very, very low. Why? Because they are growing mangoes and are Floridians, then they will choose and develop for more than 100 years, and they need special conditions to produce fruit. And this year had been special everywhere. We had very warm weather, and in some places, no rain at all in Mexico talking about Mexico, and their mangoes, they didn't bloom because it was too hot, but that's the problem. So they had the wrong mangoes, and we have been talking last week with a reporter from Mexico, and they are claiming that they have just 10% of the regular mangoes. And the majority of the mangoes, they come to the US, that's why the mangoes are so expensive right now at the store. So if they have to decide that they've got to change the type of mango because they're growing because they're changing the climate, it takes several years for a tree to take hold and produce. So that's not going to happen overnight. That's correct. But we humans, we are so creative, and we can change the canopy in two years. So mature mangoes, you can put a little branches in the top of the trees and make different branches, new branches, two years is enough to make a change. But the problem is, who is going to pay for this, who is going to assume the risk? That's the problem, that there are some companies that they are doing it right now, and they are willing to do that change because we are the primary customer right here. So they are willing to do it. I see. Well, that's very interesting. So they can still use the rootstock and the tree that's there, but they can add to it. Well, that's so interesting. Now, as you've been mentioned, there's so many different mango varieties. For most of us who are going to go buy a mango somewhere, what are the different ones and what should we look for? Colored is not always the best guidance to buy a mango, but the developing of the shape of the mango is more important. They have to be chubby, they have to be robust, like shoulders, they have to be heavy, they have to be aromatic. And if you touch them, they have to be a little bit soft, but no mushy. So that's the important characteristic when you are buying a mango, don't buy it because of the color, because color is confusing for a customer when you are buying mangoes at the store. That's very interesting because I have seen them in the store and most of them are very green, but they have to be fat and juicy and smell good. And it's smell good. Yeah, that doesn't look like very tasty, but that's the sign. You have to act like an orangutan, so choose the mango, but if they are fat and chubby and a little soft and smelly, that's perfectly right. Chubby, soft and smelly, okay, three things to remember. Now, okay, we get the mangoes and we bring them home. That's the best way to keep them in our house. The best way to keep them in your house is putting your counter and decorate your kitchen in a nice bowl, then they can breathe. Don't put them in the refrigerator because that is stopped, the development of the flavors, compounds and sugar especially. So it's better just to put in a nice bowl in your kitchen until they write it slowly and finish the process. So they will continue to write even if they're off the tree. That's good. That's good to know because sometimes it's the opposite. They have to be picked when they're right, I thought. Well, I think we have been making some progress in the past years thanks to the National Mango Board that is working with farmers all from Mexico to South America, helping them to harvest the fruit when they are mature, before they used to harvest the fruit in mature. So they were green still and when we received the mangoes, they never write properly. Now they are doing a better job and we are having better quality of mangoes because they are picking the fruit in the right moment. Okay, so now we've got the mango and we've got it right and we're ready to eat it. What is the best way to cut up a mango and use it? Well, I think a good way to do it is remember that it has a big seed in the middle. So I'm normally holding it in my hand and I take the cheeks off, close to the seeds. So you have the biggest area that is meaty already out and then I make a squares with a knife. Okay. Before we go into the square, so what you're doing is I stand the mango up and to see what you call the cheeks of the sides and then if you carefully slice down, slice on either side of the pit is what you're saying and then you get a whole half of a mango. Yes. So you have two pieces, big and meaty already to use. Okay. The next step will be, for example, if you want to do smoothies, for example, and each way to do it is take a knife and make a little squares, holding it in a steel in your hand because you still have the skin of the mango. So it's going to be safe to do it and then you flip it and you hot all the squares. The cubes ready to the blender and then you can use it already to the bowl and you are going to do a mango salsa, for example, or you are going to make a launch for you for your for your feed that is going to school. So you have your lunch ready, your lunch box ready for him. So it's an easy and safe way to cut a mango, right? And so what you're saying when you make the little squares, it's kind of like a tic-tac-toe square hatch, hatch work. So you draw lines down one way and then lines opposite the other way and when you turn it out, sit down, it's like a porcupine. Opens up. Correct. And the biggest mangoes, I will recommend to do it that way. But the yellow ones, and they call champagne mangoes and you probably remember at the store those yellow mangoes that are smaller, a good way to eat that mango because it's very juicy and it has no fiber, make a little massage, massage the mango as much as you want it, a little massage to the mango and massage the mango, massage the mango, okay, I'm by the dry the end, make a little hole and after you massage the mango for about 10 minutes, all the juices are going to come down straight to your mouth. That sucks the mango through. How wonderful. I never knew about that. Oh, I grew up eating mangoes that way but the ones that you can buy at the store that are easy to eat it, like my childhood are the atawulfos or champagne mangoes. That's a very good way to eat it and it's just painless. Most of the mangoes I know of are called cheats. Correct. Those are very good mangoes for cooking, Linda. They are very pleasant and easy they are big, they are large and so with one mango you can easily make a one recipe. I normally recommend to use cheats to make a salsa for example, one that is ripe and the other one that is still breaking up, that makes this tartness and that balance a little bit of tartness left in it. That's so perfect to use one that is ripe and the other one that is ready yet. To mix the two together so you have sort of a sweet and a little bit of a tart togetherness for a salsa. That's a wonderful idea. That's a wonderful idea. One of my favorite things of course is a mango lassi. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And you make the mango lassi with, I have the recipe I like as I have ice cubes and sugar and mangoes and blend them all together and a little bit of yogurt, plain yogurt. You know, a good news for your audience right now is that we have different kind of mangoes now. We used to have the ket, the tummy add-ins, the kent and the atala also champagne, the yellow ones. But now we have new mangoes coming to the market and these are the malicas and the malicas are the most delicious mangoes to make mango lassi. It is so rich and the color is so beautiful, it's orange, deep orange. So the mango lassi, it's just delicious using malicas. So how is this? M-A-L-A-K-A? Correct. Malica. Malica. Okay, so when we're in the store, sometimes they don't have the names there. I guess you can ask the produce people if they have the carton, if they know which one it is. Yeah, most of these specialty mangoes are coming to the Chinese store, the Asian stores. So in very low quantities, it's not easy to find it in the big supermarkets. Probably that's something for the future. But it's not enough mangoes to cover that market yet, but we are hoping we are working with farmers that we can have this diversity of mangoes that are very appealing for different cultures and are used to eating mangoes in different ways. So I think we are looking to a change. Now, climate change is a problem, but I believe humans, we find a way to make solutions and changes for good, and this is some of the things that are going to happen. New mangoes are going to start coming to the US because they are more tropical than they are more resistant to diseases, and with humans, we will find a way to get through what we are going to see is diversity here in the US. Okay. Mango lover, for sure, and with your optimism, I know it's going to work because you're working so hard to make this happen. Norris Ledesma, if somebody wants to contact you or find out where you're working or what's the best way to contact you? Well, I am retired as you know, Linda, but my Facebook is still posted. My Facebook page is like my name, Norris Ledesma. N-O-R-I-S-L-E-D-E-S-M-A, Norris Ledesma, and they can contact you that way. Well, I can see that you're not really retired because you're working very hard for the mango people. I know that. I have to mainly volunteer work and help in different societies. I love working with the students and my community. So we are looking forward to all the audience to come and visit us here in South Florida during the summertime. It is fun. So you should come here, we have a lot of things going on. On that note, it was just a wonderful note. Thank you so much for joining me and as usual, for the wonderful information. Thank you. Well, I'm Linda Gassenheimer and this is Food News Enfuse. Jacquelyn Coleman is the Vino columnist for the Biscayne Times. She's joining us now with her wine names. Today, I am joined by Alessandra Estebes, who is the director of Wine Education at Florida Wine Academy and 305 Wine. So welcome, Alessandra. Thanks for joining me. Hi, Jacquelyn. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Yes. Well, you know, it's hot these days and those of us who like to drink wine are always looking for the best wine to enjoy while we're sweating, running around and maybe sitting outside. So let's chat a little bit about some warm weather wine suggestions that you might have. So where should we start? If we're hot and we're sweating, what should we be drinking? Well, the good news is that there is so many types of wines from reds to roses to sparklings, two whites that you can enjoy with warm weather. I'll say the first thing to look for is really refreshing wines, wines that have higher acidity. And what acidity does is that it makes you salivate. So yes, starting with the whites, maybe, you know, try different regions and different grapes that you never tried before. We were just talking about, you know, Italian wines and Italian grapes, typically when you see white Italian wines, and I'm not only talking about the peanut region that you know, but I'm talking about other grapes and other appellations, such as gaffes, suave, phalangina, lugana. And so these wines are typically an oak. They are fermented in stainless steel tanks. They are meant to drink when young, and they are really refreshing and pair well with food. So I think, you know, some Italian whites. And then if you want to go to French wines and German wines, for instance, you can try risling, dry rislings, which are, you know, very high in acidity, really refreshing. Think about the citrusy kind of notes from risling, and you can find that both in Germany and in Alsace in France, that are really good, and they typically have a, you know, great pricing too. Yeah, you know, just this year I was in Alsace and then Altolege, which are two regions that produce similar grapes, you know, they use similar grapes and have a similar style to their wines, but both very refreshing white wine regions. And I think looking for those on labels, like you said, the rislings, the Pinot Blanc is one that I think it's overlooked as a great refreshing white wine. I agree. I totally agree. And even, you know, talking about Altolege, so Altolege is a region in north of Italy. It's, you know, it's breathtaking fields. The place is magical, but the wines are magical too, and they do produce Pinot Grigio, but of a higher quality than just, you know, the Venetal Pinot Grigio. So yeah, you should try that too. Yeah. I think, I think Pinot Grigio kind of gets a bad rep, and I won't mention any names, but, you know, as kind of this bulk white wine that is, you know, as my mom says, water wine. But the wine, the Pinot Grigio's from Altolege are very different. They're more complex, they're more structured, and I think that those who have maybe dismissed Pinot Grigio in the past is something that lacks in character, you know, Altolege really is the region to look for, on the label for Pinot Grigio's. Yeah, I totally agree. So what about Rose, where, what kind of Rose should we be drinking? Well, I mean, I'm partial to one region in particular, but I don't know what you think. I just love Rose's, you know, they are so versatile because they can feel refreshing like a white wine. They can have a little bit more body, so you can pair with barbecue and, you know, meat. So, so, yes, let me start with, you know, some other regions and not so known well, well known regions. So Rioja is a region that produce some very high quality roses from $15 a bottle to $100 a bottle. They have, you know, every different style. But these wines typically have ten pernido, brinache, and they're delicious. So I highly recommend trying a rose from that area. Typically they will have darker collards, a darker collar. And then Italy has some delicious wines, too. So they have two styles, two, the kerritos, which are really pale in color, pale salmon color, really refreshing. And then they have the cherasolo, the bruso, for instance, which is more cherry-like color and more like a lighter red, so both amazing. But I guess you have some thoughts about friends, maybe? Well, yes, of course, always. I'm a provensal rosé gal, or even the long duck rosé is obviously impartial, too. I mean, Grunash in general is probably the grape that I gravitate towards. It's on my sweatshirt that I'm wearing right now, but, you know, the crisp rosés of southern France are hard to beat, in my opinion. But we should mention, you know, the color of rosé does not indicate its sweetness level, so that's something important if you want to say something about that. Yeah, absolutely. Because people in the past, they associated a darker-colored rosé with some sweetness in the wine. But that is not true. There is an appellation in France, for instance, called taval. It is in the southern realm, and taval makes dark-colored rosé that are bone-dry, no sugar. They are just, you know, fuller body. Some of these wines can reach 13.5, 14 percent alcohol, which is excellent to pair with, you know, meat dishes and cheeses with more flavor, and they are dry. So you're right. It doesn't mean anything nowadays. Yeah. It was interesting. I was talking with a producer recently, and a champagne producer, and he was talking about his rosé champagne, which we can get into sparkling wines too, as good for warm weather. But, you know, and how they do, when they do their taste test to decide the blend, they put them into black glasses so that they can't see the color, because so often we're influenced by the color of the wine, and that changes our perception of what the wine should be. But really, that does not determine very much at all, other than maybe some skin contact. That's true. And you know, most of these producers, especially in champagne, they will bottle their wines in clear bottles, so you can see the color. And some of them will be more pale. Some of them, if they use a process called sange, which is, you know, the bleeding method, you can have darker college champagne. But yeah, but they're still, you know, they can be made very dry as well. Yeah. So let's talk about sparkling wines, because this might be my favorite category. What is your go-to warm weather sparkling wine? So I love Blanc de Blanc champagne. So made with chardonnay only, chardonnay in champagne gets very high in acidity, because champagne is a cool climate region, so it's very easy for it to have, you know, this very high acidity, super crisp, peeling on the palate, which is perfect with, you know, fish, white fishes, for instance, or some shrimps or some lobster. So yeah, perfect warm weather. So champagne would be my go-to if I can, you know, drink it every day. I pair my champagne with sitting on my couch in the air conditioning and watching TV all day Saturday. Yep. Yes. Like champagne and Netflix, or Netflix and champagne, I guess. And what about, you know, we get stuck on prosecco sometimes is the only Italian sparkling wine, but there are other regions that are producing very delicious Italian sparkling wine. Absolutely. So Trento, DOC, it's, you know, an amazing one. And then French Acorda is also a great one. So I visited French Acorda last year, and, you know, it's amazing what they have been doing in terms of, you know, aging the sparkling wines for a very long time before they come to the market, doing vintages. So French Acorda is still much cheaper than champagne, but the quality is very similar. So I agree. And I know you're familiar with Trento as well, right? Mm-hmm. And I was just up there earlier this year. So it's a beautiful region as well. The sparkling wines of Ferrari and other Trento DOC producers. Exactly. Yeah. So, so still you can find those wines for $30, $40 a bottle, but, you know, with such a high quality that if you compare to a champagne, it'll be, you know, cost a double. Yeah. So it really has so much to offer. It really does. And I still need to explore more and more of Italy. But when we're talking about wines to drink when we're hot, what are some things that we should maybe avoid that will make us hotter as we drink? That's a great point. So I think the first thing is alcohol, right? So if the wine has very high alcohol, you feel warm, absolutely. So think about wines like an amarone from Italy, California's Zinfandel. These wines can easily have 15, 16% alcohol. They are not fortified, but they can have this very high alcohol. So, you know, that will make you feel warm. And also, you know, think about the fortified wines, like plords or sherry or Madeira. Again, unless you're mixing it into a cocktail, which we can talk about, you know, portonica. Yes, these are, you know, no-go during summertime because 20% alcohol, it will make you feel much warmer. I do love the white portantonics. Love that combo. And I know Taylor's has the cans that you can get that are super convenient, but you can also just buy a bottle of white port and make your own portonics at home. Exactly. Highly recommend with a little like orange slice or something. Yes, so tonic, white port, ice, yes, and the orange slice. Amazing. Alright, well on that, I'm starting to get thirsty. Might need to go make my level port on a cocktail. Well, Alessandra, thanks for joining me today and chatting a little bit about these wines that are perfect for our hot, hot weather here in South Florida. Yes, my pleasure. These great news from Jacqueline Coleman. I'm Linda Gastonheimer. Thanks for tuning in. Join us next time for more food news and news. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC]