In today’s episode, Ryan talks with Rebekah Costello, a 4th-year medical student at Midwestern University Chicago – College of Osteopathic Medicine, and author of a blog at doctorandmom.blogspot.com. Rebekah shares with us her medical school experience as nontraditional student who went through seven different higher-education institutions before finally landing at the school she’s at.
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MappedCon presented by Blueprint Test Prep 2024 is this Friday, October 26, 925 Eastern. I'm starting the day in my track, the pre-med track, planting the seed of your personal statement. We have three tracks going all day long and a couple hours of amazing exhibitors where you can learn more about their programs. Again, MappedCon presented by Blueprint Test Prep, October 26, register for free. It's a virtual event and all the sessions will be up after. So even if you can't make it live, go register and get access to the sessions. Go to MappedCon.com right now, register. That's M-A-P-P-D-C-O-N.com. If you're applying to medical school in 2022 to start medical school in 2023, join me Wednesday or Thursday, Wednesday night at 9.30 p.m. Eastern or Thursday at 11 a.m. Eastern at premedworkshop.com. Go register today. I'm going to show you how to tell your story in your application. Again, that's premedworkshop.com. If you are applying to medical school in 2022, be there or be square. The medical school HQ podcast, session number 61. Hey, this is Z-Dog MD, rapper, physician, legendary turntable health revolutionary and part-time gardener. And you're listening to the medical school HQ podcast hosted by the irredeemably awesome Ryan Gray. Welcome back to the medical school HQ podcast, whether you're a premed lost on your journey or a medical student discouraged on your path. We're here to help encourage, motivate and enlighten you about why you're choosing to join one of the best professions in the whole entire world. We're here to guide you on your path to becoming a physician. Welcome back, folks. I'm your host, as Z-Dog said Ryan Gray. I'm a physician in the military, but as I said in episode one, and I'll just reiterate it now, what I do here has nothing to do with the military. So take that for what it's worth. I come on this after work and I interview all these people. We're 60. This is episode 61. 61 straight weeks. We've done a podcast for you guys every Wednesday. We release it. So I hope you've enjoyed Alison and I come home from work and we interview awesome people. We work on the website. We work on the academy and we thoroughly enjoy it. And I think you guys thoroughly enjoy it too because we keep getting amazing reviews from people in the iTunes store where you can go and leave a review. If you haven't yet, medicalschoolhq.net/itunes will take you there and you can leave a rating and review. We had two this week, one from Anani one two three three who said so enlightening and Costco said great resource helpful information for any pre-med. Thank you to those two for those two ratings and reviews in the iTunes store. You can also I know a lot of people I think last time I looked about 120 people have the medical school HQ podcast in their Stitcher playlist. Do you know you can leave a review in Stitcher too? I don't know how to do it. I don't use Stitcher but I think you can do it right in the app. So check it out and leave a review there and I'll see if I can find out who leaves those reviews and mention you guys on the podcast as well. Today I have an interview with a fourth year medical student at Midwestern University Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine. Now Rebecca Costello blogs at doctorandmom.blogspot.com. Easy for me to say. I reached out to her because I've had a ton of people a ton of listeners mention that they want to hear what it's like to go through medical school as a as a female as a woman with children and I've been trying there's there's actually a great website out there called mothersinmedicine.com and it's a it's a whole bunch of different women that are pre medical students. I'm just looking at the list here a neurologist a resident OBGYN PMNR neurosurgeon kind of runs the whole gamut and it's a it's a blog all about their experiences being in the medical profession as mothers. So I reached out to them and actually didn't go anywhere with them. But I found Rebecca's story and wanted to talk to her. She started she's a she's a very non-traditional student. I think she went through seven different higher education institutions before finally landing at Midwestern University. She started medical school. I think at the age of 35 and had three children. Now for traditional medical students out there and traditional pre med students out there just think about that starting probably what is one of the toughest stretch of four years of your life with three children. Now before you go running away if you're a guy out there listening to this don't go anywhere because this podcast really isn't about having children in medical school. This podcast is about how to prioritize how to schedule your time how to understand what is important to you and what's not important to you and being okay with putting aside some of the things that aren't that important to you even though your classmates might be gunning for those things. So this podcast really superficially is about children but it goes much deeper than that. So even if you're a guy please stick around and listen to the advice that Rebecca has to offer. We go through everything how she survived pre med with children how she went on her interviews and talked about the children and actually having the interviewers kind of doubt her and put doubt into her head about starting medical school with children. So we talk all about that all about how she's done it. Obviously she's had tremendous support from what sounds like an amazing husband and I'm sure that would have been a lot harder if he wasn't around. So stick around take a listen and at the end we'll do a little wrap up. We start off by talking about when she knew she wanted to be a doctor. I first well the idea was first broached to me when I was actually pregnant with my son when I came back to undergraduate and was majoring in biology and psychology I thought I would want it to go into genetic counseling and so I was pursuing my biology degree to be eligible to do that and as one of the requirements for admission you have to spend some time shadowing a genetic counselor they recommend you do that they recommend that much like getting into you know medical school so you kind of know what you're getting into and when I did that I spent the summer with them and at the end of the summer and they asked me they said if you need anything else if you want to do anything you know just let us know we're more than happy to help you and I said I'm going to have to talk to my husband because this is not what I thought I kind of had this idea in my head of what I thought the job would look like and when I saw the actual job it wasn't what I thought it was going to be and they said well what is it what did you think and I said you these people are walking into your office and you don't know what they know or what they understand or what they expect before they walk in you spend a really good 15 minutes with them because you're bolstering their spirits and you're telling them oh they're at a low risk for you know x y or z or there's very low chance that they'll pass something on to their children or you're potentially spending a very bad 15 or 30 minutes with them and then you're sending them on their way and you never see them again and I knew in my heart that that wasn't what I wanted I said I realized that that is part and parcel of being in the healthcare field you know we all have those 15 minutes but I knew in my heart that I wanted more I wanted to be there before those 15 minutes happened I wanted to be there after those 15 minutes happened I wanted to be there for all of it not just some of it and that's when they first told me that they thought I should look into being a physician and I revolted for two years I want to stop you there for a second because I think what you just said there and this kind of has nothing to do with the conversation that I want to have with you but what you just said there is exactly the reason why medical schools want applicants to shadow a physician and get clinical experience before starting medical school because you have to know what it's like and obviously your experience was in the realm of being a genetic counselor but it's the same thing shadowing a physician and figuring out what it's like to be a doctor and it's okay to to take that experience and go you know what this isn't really what I thought it was I thought it was going to be more like Dr. House on on the TV show and it's really not so I don't like this and it's okay to step away like you did exactly and I think you know that was it took some soul searching and and I looked at you know everything I looked at getting my PhD and in various biological sciences because I love biology I love physiology I love pathology I just love the way the human body works it just fascinates me how we all get put together and we all you know walk this earth on two legs it's just fascinating and amazing to me it's it's exciting to learn and you know exciting to try to help people when things go wrong yeah and at the same time I knew I couldn't be in a lab 24/7 a day because I am nothing if but not a people person and I need to be around people and helping people and working with people and so getting my PhD didn't work I thought about getting my side and that wasn't going to work either because that gave me my people but that took me away from the science and the biology that I love so incredibly much so really it it came down to this is this is my journey this is my path and I got you know whacked up aside to have enough metaphorical times to understand that it finally got through my thick skull so you mentioned that you were married and you had a kid on the way so either you got married very young and and had a baby very young or you were kind of a non-traditional student at that point I we were I was a non-traditional student at that well at that point yes I was a non-traditional student my husband and I did get married fairly young for this generation I would say you know we'll be celebrating our our 17 year wedding anniversary next month so yeah we've been married for a while so we got married fairly young and we did start our family you know fairly young for people starting a family my oldest is a freshman in high school okay so we did start our family fairly on the younger side so I guess we were kind of you know I did things backwards and in reverse that's okay and it's working out for you and that's kind of what I want to talk to you about today so you had this epiphany or others forced it upon you and you finally realized it for yourself that you should go to medical school and that you should be pre-med but you were having a child at that point or had one at that point what was that like going through the pre-med process as a mother um I actually got to avoid most of that because I did not officially decide until January of 2004 that I was going to do this and I graduated from my undergraduate in May of 2004 so I was only officially a pre-med for five months so I kind of avoided most of it unfortunately you know I did go through the master's program at Midwestern kind of as a definitely more of a non-traditional student and that is a little bit different you know you have to have a different focus and you have to really know that 100% for sure this is what you want but even going through undergraduate classes as an older student you know with a non-traditional student it's it's a challenge it definitely was a challenge because you know upper level biology classes are are not easy and I had to take my girl biology which um you know that that really challenged me at our my undergraduate institution and it really kind of pushed me to my limits and so it challenged you what did you do to to support yourself or what kind of support did you have while you were going through that um my husband I've been extremely fortunate my husband's always been kind of 100 behind me and always 100% into whatever we have to do to get where we need to be and so you know when I needed to if I needed to study a little bit more or focus a little bit more even then I knew I'm kind of more of a I myself personally am a kind of a combination learner sometimes I learn better audio sometimes I learn better kinesthetically sometimes I learn better you know visually by seeing something done um and so at that time I would record the lectures because she encouraged us to record the lectures and I would listen to them again and I would fill in gaps in my notes and which is a very time-consuming process and around exam time my husband would take a little bit more of the load and I would take a little bit less and in between exams I could pick up me a little bit more of the mom duty and he could take a little bit less so it's kind of that that give and take that balance of knowing that you know sometimes I can do more sometimes I can do less sometimes you'll have to pick up a little bit more and the planning I honestly think the best thing the best thing we did before before I started medical school was we got a 20 cubic foot freezer and that thing has been a lifesaver but even back then I would try to you know do things like on a slower weekend or if I knew I had a test coming up that week say you know Friday and it was the weekend before making something like a big pot of spaghetti or a big pot of chili something that I wouldn't necessarily have to sit down in the evening and make up a meal from scratch because you know you can't always eat out it's not always the A's not the most healthiest option and B it's not the most cost-effective option you know especially if you're feeding a family of at that time three almost four um it's not always you know the best option to do and um you know it's hard you feel silly eating out for young kids uh and it's a waste of you know you want to go to a sit-down restaurant you you sacrifice time and you don't necessarily want to have you know fast food too often either when they're younger so it's kind of a balance of trying to to keep to have something on hand that you can have quickly that you don't have to sit down when you come home if you've got to test the next day and spending you know 45 minutes to an hour making dinner yeah so it sounds like the the planning was a huge part of it and then it sounds like your husband was amazing and there was a lot of teamwork involved there yes teamwork has definitely been the key has has there been any times where the the stress kind of gets to you and obviously relationships aren't always perfect but how have you worked through through that with your husband I think the hardest part for me was probably my first year of medical school because during that time um my son was in second grade and he was doing his first communion and his first communion was right after uh literally the weekend after our finals week and it was so stressful for me as a mom because I think as moms we think we have to at least me as a mom and I don't I'm sure other moms out there are equally like this you feel like if there's a party or if there's an event for one of your children you have to oversee it you have to you know plan everything everything has to be executed perfectly it's it's the moms that do it is not the dads it's always seems you know it's just it's it's a mom thing to make sure that that all goes off you know fairly seamlessly so for me the hardest part was and that caused a lot of it did cause a lot of strife between my husband and I because I was like well why aren't you doing this this needs to be done we need to get this done we need to get that done we need to get you know the cake needs to be ordered we need to think about we're getting the cake we need to figure out you know we need to let the appropriate people know we need to do this we need to do that and he's like just he's like I got it yep the guy the guy's mind doesn't run through that whole list not quite the same way yeah our minds do not work the same way you know and it was really hard and you know I I um you know we just we talked about it and and I had to kind of work through that and myself and with you know the help of others realizing that it was okay he would still have his first communion I would still be there the cake may not be the cake I ordered it may not be the afternoon I envisioned but the important thing is that I was going to be there and it would all be okay so I think that was the hardest part for me first year was just learning to let go that I couldn't micromanage every little microsecond all the time because I just couldn't yeah let's let's talk about that so you you kind of jumped ahead into medical school and and that's good how how did you prioritize your time as a pre-med and in medical school obviously we we all hear the analogy of drinking from a fire hydrant and and medical school is just unlike anything else you've ever experienced before so you start medical school obviously a non-traditional student with I think three kids starting medical school and if I'm not mistaken the only person in your medical school that had children at that time yes yeah how did you prioritize time um I made use of every spare second of my day literally so we would have 10 minutes between classes usually we did not have to switch locations because all of our first year classes were for the most part in the same lecture hall other people would get up stretch go to the bathroom I would try to not do that if I didn't have to instead I would take those 10 minutes I would make sure I either a caught up with the lecture that was leaving if I had any remaining questions that I needed to answer that of something that I just wasn't understanding uh be caught up with the professor who was coming in to kind of touch base and say at least give them a heads up because I know they're uploading lectures and everything saying hey I want to catch up with you after a lecture because I need to ask you a question about xy or z so they at least knew I wanted to touch base with them and would hang around and not rush off to the next lecture or see I would be just kind of perusing perusing through our note packets that our school gave out just to kind of get it a picture in my mind for how the lecture was going to flow because for me I think that was crucial to kind of know where we were going as we were covering topics um you know during lunch I would study if I got there early because the traffic was wonderful that morning which you know in Chicago it's me it that's not always a great that's not always a guarantee in Chicago area um but it was just making use of every of every spare moment of my day I did have a digital recorder so I would make myself audio flashcards like I would say the you know the word or the phrase and then pause and then say the answer and I would listen to that on the way down or listen to a lecture on the way down so it's just every moment of time because when I came home after school I wanted that time when I came home before dinner during dinner and after dinner I wanted to be able to be there and be present and be with my family so we could have dinner together as a family that was an absolute priority for me that was something that I felt was important and that was something that I felt we needed to do as a family to be able to maintain our sense of family you know throughout the first couple of years um all throughout undergraduate uh ever since my oldest daughter was very young we've always kind of had a tradition of having lunch together on the weekends and that was something that we felt was equally important so we always try to make sure and we even still do it today we try to take either Saturday or Sunday and just have that time everything else goes up and just to reconnect as a family and talk about our weeks listen to the kids what's happening with them in school you know anything exciting going on in their life any big projects they've got coming up you know and just kind of talk about the week ahead you know okay you've got this Thursday that means we need to do this and you know just kind of plan the week ahead and it's just kind of our time together as a family and we try to keep that sacred and it meant that I often wouldn't study until after the kids worked about at night and then I would you know wouldn't go to bed until 11 11 30 myself and get up in the morning and and do it all over again so I know as a as a medical student and as a pre-med my mind was constantly on studying and if I wasn't studying it was on the fact that I was anxious that I wasn't studying and I was getting behind how do you think you did that or you think just having that family was grounding for you I think my family was grounding for me because when I came in when I knew I was doing this and you know the master's program gave me a a kind of a feel for you know what it was going to take to a lesser extent obviously but I kind of knew what I was getting into I didn't really know but I kind of knew but I just think that for us we knew family time was was crucial vital and key and we wanted to try to keep you know their lives as sane as humanly possible but at the same time we didn't want to limit their lives so we did things like we tried to limit their involvement to one thing per season instead of being in six different activities okay you pick what we're going to pick one thing and you know you can't do soccer and baseball in the spring it needs to be soccer or baseball you know because both is too much one or the other and that helps a lot and and then also we um you know try to limit I guess I am both blessed and cursed and a lot of my extended family lives are very close by and so we they like to have impromptu get togethers but we made it very clear that we would not be making any impromptu get togethers unless it was a you will be disowned if you do not come and um I think the other thing that really helped and is is probably the biggest thing is I have a friend in the neighborhood um that I met through co-teaching a religious education class at our church and our children are about the same age so they get along so sometimes they hang out you know after school um so that's helpful because they can get together and blow off some steam and I can have a little bit of quiet time and I think the other biggest secret to my success is we currently live less than three quarters of a mile away from my parents and I am an only child which means I am the mother to their only three grandchildren so that probably helps a ton that helps a ton but it's not to say that it's necessary I mean if you have a good solid support network in you know husband and neighborhood and church and community and friends in your neighborhood if you're not near your family I think it can definitely still be done but you need I think it's absolutely crucial you need a good support network behind you and I think for me it was I didn't necessarily want to be at the top of my class because I knew I didn't necessarily want to do surgery I knew that that was the only thing I knew starting medical school surgery was not for me I am a klutz I embrace my klutziness but surgery was not for me I admire those who can but it was not my calling um and I just feel like that I was okay I I was going to do as good as I could do and I was okay with whatever that looked like if that meant that I got an 82 instead of a 92 that was okay because it meant I got to spend time with my family I was not willing to sacrifice my family time and spending time with my kids and sitting down and tucking them in and you know doing their homework with them just little things because I wanted to be there for those small moments as much as I could yeah and I decided I knew when residency hit I wasn't going to be able to have much of those moments and I wanted I wanted to cherish those moments while I could yeah while they were still little I think you you make a good point with with your your mindset you went in knowing that there's only 24 hours in a day and everybody has the same amount of time and that your time is going to be a little bit different than the younger student that doesn't have a family doesn't have a significant other doesn't have kids and their main priority is being number one in the class or as close to number one as they can get and and that's okay too your priority was just different and you were okay with that and as long as you go in with that mindset and know what your goals are then then you can be okay and that's what you just said you you were going to be okay exactly I knew it would be you know I would be okay and I think you know I we started off and when we started off I we definitely didn't do as much I definitely studied a little bit focused more on my studying than my family but kind of once I got my feet under me and once I knew I could handle things and I think that's one thing that worked very well at least for me at Midwestern is that we do have that early start where we have four weeks of classes kind of before we ramp up to full schedule and we don't have we have anatomy lecture but we don't have anatomy lab yet and we don't really have the full breath of classes that we have start post labor day so it kind of enabled me to get that pattern down to get that study schedule down before things got crazy so it wasn't like day one I went in and it was full steam ahead I kind of got to ramp up a little bit for four weeks before the real craziness hit and for me I think that was an incredible blessing because it was and it like I said it just enabled me to kind of get a sense and to get my family in that routine without having all of the craziness thrown at us all at once yeah now you you did your masters at Midwestern as well I did and so was that a linked program where you did your masters and that was an automatic acceptance into the medical school it was not an automatic acceptance no it was not guaranteed that you would be accepted in fact I was put on the waitlist okay now I got in off of the waitlist it was it was one of it was there were provisions in place that allowed you an interview but it was not one of the of a linked program where you got a guaranteed acceptance okay so that's that's kind of good because I wanted to ask you a question about interviewing it at schools and what it was like to to interview at schools and did the fact that you had children come up in those interviews and and how did you how did you integrate that into the conversations the fact that I have children did come up in the interviews but you know I've always been very straightforward about the fact that I have a family because my family is is part of me and you know it was expressed to me the concerns of how how are you going to handle this and you know I told them kind of the same answer I told you you know I'm have a very supportive husband and you know we we know that we're going to have to limit you know kind of pare down on what we do outside of our house and we live very close to my parents who are very supportive and behind me a hundred percent in this journey and we also have friends in the neighborhood and so it's going to be it wasn't necessarily one thing and we weren't quite sure how the pieces were going to fit together but we knew the pieces were there if that makes any sense now that that makes total sense and the the schools kind of took it in stride you think and and accepted your answer um sometimes yes and and sometimes you know and I think it depended on the interviewer some interviewers were like but you have kids it's like well yeah I have kids but you know not the first person to do this with children and I certainly won't be the first person to do this with children do you think there was was there a difference and I don't know if you can think back this far was there a difference maybe between a male and a female interviewer I think the female interviewers were harder yep yep I've heard that from many people about female interviewers being harder about other women having children and families and stuff but you know as as I've also said about this path you know I was also fortunate my kids were older I mean like I said my youngest was four uh my first year of medical school so I had children that were sleeping through the night um I had children that were all potty trained by that point in time and the 10-year-old could my oldest was 10 at the time um you know she could actually kind of halfway make her own peanut butter and jelly sandwich and occasionally make one for her younger siblings as well if we needed to make lunch um but you know we just they were older you know they were a little bit more independent they didn't require as much mommy time but you know I've seen people in my class have babies over the last couple years so I I know it can be done even with babies during medical school I just you know sleep sleep is a very precious thing what what do you think helped the fact that you were a mom and you had children how did that help while you were going through medical school I think it's just like you know for me my family was that was that ground and I think it just it helps me understand that there's a bigger picture out there and there's more than the next exam and there's more than the grade you know it wasn't about that for me it was about my kids and it was about my family and it was kind of about me in a sense showing them that it's never too late to go back and do something if it's really truly what you want to do okay so gave you gave you some perspective I think it did and it just gave me a little bit of a you know I I had worked for a while so I had kind of that real world experience out in the working world so I think it just gave me a different perspective and then most of my classmates and knowing that it wasn't necessarily all about me yeah it was about more than me Rebecca what what's the best piece of advice that you could give somebody that is a pre-med right now or a medical student listening to this on the verge of having a baby and and freaking out that they're gonna have to give up their dream of becoming a doctor don't let anybody tell you it can't be done no I I think be okay with letting go of the little things don't worry about micromanaging because even if you don't do it it will be okay large freezers and crackpots are your friends family always comes first and um don't I think just in general not just not just anybody with the baby but I think it was a little bit easier for me to do this than others is you're going to hear a ton of people give you advice over what will work and what won't work and what will work and what won't work and all I can say is um don't listen to them because you and only you know what study skills work for you and what methods work for you and what organizational skills work for you because if you're doing this with kids you need to be super duper organized I am a paper and pencil person myself I have not yet converted to electronic organizers and I know that's coming and I direct it with a passion but you know do what works and be flexible and be willing to change I think that's the most important thing is is just be flexible because life happens whether or not you want it to happen life will happen that's great advice Rebecca what are you going into uh I am doing uh family medicine it seems like that fits you perfectly that's what I keep being told that's great where can people find your blog uh people can find my blog at doctor and mom dot blogspot dot com all right I'll have a link for that in the show notes so people don't have to write it while they're driving um any last parting words of wisdom Rebecca um don't lose sight of who you are I think I am very much the same person I am today as the first day I walked through medical school doors I have not let the process change me don't let it change you keep who you are and that's that's perfect advice for everybody male female child no child I think the the process has a tendency to change people um so I think that's that's a great advice and I think part of that is just like I said keeping keeping the sense of those keeping a sense of those priorities and what is truly important to you and knowing if you have a sense of those priorities and what's important to you everything else will work out it will be okay I promise it will be okay all right folks I told you that was a lot of information a lot of awesome stuff to to use to help prioritize to help understand what is important to you and understand that there there is enough time in the day if you schedule it out and and you understand uh what you're doing each and every day so thank you Rebecca for coming on the show and talking to us and sharing your story I hope this helps a lot of people out there I know it well if you want to thank Rebecca come on the show notes medicalschoolhq.net/61 as an episode 61 and leave a comment for Rebecca and we'll we'll have her check that out as well you can go check out her blog she is at doctorandmom.blogspot.com and go check out what she's writing about she's uh her last post is all about looks like away rotations getting ready for her residency um interviews and and applications so go there say hello you can say hi to us on twitter we're at medicalschoolhq if you have any questions or any comments that you want us to play here on the podcast go to medicalschoolhq.net/feedback and we will do that I do want to mention that this podcast is brought to you by the academy at the medical school headquarters an online membership site helping you through the pre-med process with live monthly video question and answer sessions monthly live webinars covering everything from the MCAT to financial aid to shadowing you cannot afford not to join start off your near right by investing in your future and join the academy go check it out at jointheacademy.net folks I hope today's information will help better guide you on your path to becoming a physician and I hope to see you next time here at the medical school headquarters
