MappedCon presented by Blueprint Test Prep 2024 is this Friday, October 26, 925 Eastern. I'm starting the day in my track, the pre-med track, planting the seed of your personal statement. We have three tracks going all day long and a couple hours of amazing exhibitors where you can learn more about their programs. Again, MappedCon presented by Blueprint Test Prep, October 26, register for free. It's a virtual event and all the sessions will be up after. So even if you can't make it live, go register and get access to the sessions. Go to MappedCon.com right now, register. That's M-A-P-P-D-C-O-N dot com. The Medical School HQ Podcast, session number 60. Hey, this is Z-Dog MD, rapper, physician, legendary turntable health revolutionary and part-time gardener and you're listening to the Medical School HQ Podcast hosted by the irredeemably awesome Ryan Gray. Hello and welcome back to the Medical School HQ Podcast. Whether you are pre-med lost on your journey or a medical student discouraged on your path, we are here to help encourage, motivate and enlighten you about why you are choosing to join one of the best professions in the world. We're here to guide you on your path to becoming a physician. What's up, folks? As always, I am your host Ryan Gray and I want to give a huge shout out to Z-Dog MD for his awesome introduction. Z-Dog is a real physician. You can find him at z-dog-md.com and he's actually trying to revolutionize healthcare over at turntablehealth.com. I interviewed Z-Dog. His real name is Zubin Damania, Dr. Zubin Damania. I interviewed him back in session 29, which you can go check out at medicalschoolhq.net/29. Before we jump into today's interview, I do want to give a huge shout out to the four people that left awesome five-star ratings and reviews for us. Austin, 4802, roll tide fill. I'm sorry, go gators, roll tide fill. And CLE, apologist, all left awesome five-star ratings and reviews from the United States. And then Roger Federer, med student from Canada, the country up north, left us a five-star rating interview as well. They all said awesome things. Thank you guys very much. Again, if you don't know, if this is the first time listening to our podcast, shame on you, you've missed a lot, go back and listen. If this is your first time, ratings and reviews and iTunes help other students find us. So if you can take two minutes of your time, go to medicalschoolhq.net/itunes and leave us a rating and review. I do also want to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by the Academy at the medical school headquarters, an online membership site for helping you through the premed process. We have live monthly video question and answer sessions, monthly live webinars covering everything from the MCAT to financial aid. And if you are a member, don't forget to join us tomorrow as this is releasing with Thursday, January 16th for our live webinar all about shadowing. And our next live office hours is going to be on January 26th. So if you're a member, go join us over there. If you're not a member, go see what it's all about jointheacademy.net. For today's interview, I have a Jay Major and Alina Paul, both our second-year medical students at Albany Medical College. Both of them went to Union College for undergrad and signed up and were accepted to, applied to and were accepted to Union College's combined BS, MBA, and MD program all in eight years. Yes, three degrees and eight years, kind of crazy, but they're doing it. So they have their MBAs already and now they're working on their MDs. And we talk all about the combined program. It wasn't going to start off about, we weren't going to talk about a combined degree program, but it just kind of ended up that way. So if you're interested in combined BS, MD programs or any kind of combined MD programs, this is a great interview. They talk about the good, the bad and the ugly about it. And then we also talk about an awesome venture that they started. They both were involved in their school newspaper as undergrads and they carried that love of writing and journalism into what is now intraining.org. It's in hyphentraining.org. They call it the "agora" of the medical student community. And we talk all about that and why you as a pre-med or medical student should be over at intraining.org and reading all about it. So let's go ahead and start the interview. Guys, welcome to the show. Thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you. So Ajay and Alina, why don't you go back and reach into your past and let us know, Alina, let's start with you. When did you have that aha moment that you wanted to be a doctor? I would have to say I would have to go back to high school. So for me, I went to Stuyveson High School in New York City. And at that time, we had a great curriculum full of equally balanced between the sciences and the humanities. And I want to say sometime in between AP chemistry, AP biology, I realized that I really enjoyed the material that I was learning. But at the same time, I loved the humanities and interacting with people. And medicine seemed like the best fit for those two aspects, having that strong science background, but you still are able to practice a certain art. I think that's what drew me into medicine. Okay. Any doctors in the family that gave you a little bit more exposure maybe? Right now, I have a cousin who is currently an attending physician. But when I was in high school, she was starting the medical school journey. So in the back of my mind, I had, okay, here's somebody in my family who's going through this and really enjoying it. So I had that aspect, but other than that, no other physicians in the family. Okay. All right. What about you, Ajay? So I think I'd have to go back to high school as well. I grew up in a little town called Valparaiso, Indiana, in northwest Indiana. And I think, I remember in 10th grade, I was always really interested in the sciences. I loved biology, I loved chemistry, I loved physics. And I remember 10th grade, I was doing some volunteering at the local emergency department. And I kind of got bitten by the social service bug and decided that it would be a good idea for me to go in a career where I could kind of mesh the sciences with giving back to the community and being able to help those in need. And I very quickly learned that medicine is kind of a profession, which is also built around this idea of lifelong learning. And I knew I wanted to go into something where there'd be a lot of intellectual engagement. And I'd be able to always be learning new things. And the profession would always be changing the science behind it. But also there was this element of being able to serve a community and being able to help those who are most in need. So that's kind of when I decided to go along that route towards medicine. Okay. And that's like the stereotypical perfect answer for a medical school interview, right? It really is. But you know, it's funny you bring that up because, you know, they say, oh, you know, you know what I say. But you really, a lot of the reason people go to medicine is they want to help people. And it's a great way to do it. And you know, and then a very, you know, kind of stimulating and active profession. And you get a lot of camaraderie in that way. So I want to piggyback on what you just said, the helping people for those of you listening, don't put that on your personal statement. I want to help people. You have to explain in your own words how you were going to help people. What is it about medicine that you're going to help people? Because I like to say you can go help people by being a cashier at the grocery store. You can help people by being an insurance agent. You can help people in millions of different ways. So being a physician, you're not just helping people. You're doing something specifically to help them. You're you're changing some aspect of their life or some relationship that they have or whatever it may be. So explain it a little bit better than I like to help people. Definitely just to add on to that, I know for me, like a big aspect of medicine was the fact that you became a member of that person's community. So whenever you're interacting with a patient or whenever you're interacting with a patient's family member, you become a part of their lives. It might be that you're touching them once or you're seeing them over and over again. You become a very intimate part of who they are and how their life unfolds. And yes, you know, you are helping people, but it's a very unique type of helping people. Yeah, and I would I would go a step further, at least for me, you know, yeah, helping people is important. But physicians are really in a unique position. They're kind of on the front lines, front lines of of health care delivery. And you know, I like I have a lot of personal interest in advocacy, especially for groups that are underrepresented and don't have a voice in medicine. So being able to see the patients that are, you know, most at need and being able to work on kind of a larger and more systemic level, whether it's at the level of the health care system or policy to really make sure you can bring some long lasting change and make these people's, you know, lives healthier and more wholesome. That's another whole perspective for me. And that's kind of what I hope to bring to the table for my career as a physician. Okay, awesome. So both of you guys had your aha moments in high school. How did you pick where you were going to do your undergrad and do your pre-med curriculum? Ajay, you want to start? I think I need to think about this one. So for me, I knew that I wanted to go to an undergraduate institution that had a pretty strong foundation in both the sciences and also humanities. I know I wanted to study Spanish because the Latino population was, you know, and it still isn't at risk population and medicine. And I want to be able to, you know, speak the language more to serve them better. And so I was looking around and I started to discover some programs that were combined agree. And I found one, the leadership medicine program, which is with Union College, Union Graduate College, and Albany Medical College that allowed you the opportunity to get a MBA in health care administration. And for me, you know, as I looked more into that, I saw all the unique skills that it would give me in order to work on a larger level and do that kind of advocacy work, you know, being able to understand the finance of the health system, the way the health system is structured. You know, I did a program called National Health Systems, Trauma Broad, and at Union, where I, you know, went to other countries and looked at their health systems, it tore to kind of gain a better appreciation for how a culture and society kind of affected those systems and how that change could be brought back here to the United States. So for me, choosing that program was seeing the kind of skills that I could get from a background in business in order to help me, you know, work towards improving these communities in medicine. How did you find out about these programs? What resources were you using to initially find out about the program? You know, the internet, actually, there's a, there's a one website that just lists all of the combined degree programs across the United States. And I, you know, looked into each and every one and looked at their websites and, you know, scoured the internet looking for, you know, people's thoughts on the programs and where the alumni ended up and what the undergraduate and what the medical institutions were like. I mean, the internet is really your most powerful resource when it comes to looking into those types of programs. Yeah, I think there's a site. I think it's pronounced Google. Good for that. Cool. Correct. Okay. So you specifically went looking for a combined degree program. Right. So you had high aspirations right from the get-go. Awesome. Alina, what about you? Because you ended up at the same program, right? I did. So I think for me, you know, when, when I was in, when I was in high school, like I mentioned before, I did have this dual interest in the arts and the humanities. And when I was looking for just initially pre-medical programs, one thing that stood out to me was a lot of those programs heavily emphasized the sciences. And there wasn't this emphasis on the humanities, which is something that I really did want as part of my education. And so I think that's when I started looking into just a variety of pre-medical programs. And I just happened to stumble upon the combined degree programs. I honestly kind of like, you know, kind of like what Ajay said, I found a website that listed them and starting looking into them. And the more I did, the more that that type of program called to me. And for me, especially, I had a strong sense that I did want to want to go into medicine. And thus applying for a combined degree program did feel like the right fit at that time. So specifically in choosing Union, Union College, a lot of it was when I visited the college, I got a chance to speak to some of the students who were in the program. And they were really enjoying it. They had, you know, they were doing their biology and their chemistry and their physics, but they were doing things, you know, like Ajay did, you know, they were doing Spanish, they were doing sociology. Some of them were doing art and music and the classics. And that environment really drew me. So when I was at Union, I was a biology and sociology major, kind of got to continue the interests that I originally developed. And another big aspect to why I was drawn to the Union program was going, when I decided to go into medicine, I realized that other than that aspect we had talked about, about, you know, helping people and interacting with people, I really didn't know anything about like medicine. I didn't know how medicine worked. I didn't know how the system worked. And then that idea of being able to do the MBA and the Health Administration was really an awesome opportunity just to learn about what is the system that I'm going to be working in and going to be spending my entire life in. So I think those dual aspects are really fostering and growing what I wanted to do with combining the sciences and the humanities, plus learning more about the system as a whole really drew me. And I was also, you know, I definitely talked to my guidance counselors, trying to get a sense of what the different programs were, like my high schools very large. So we had a lot of students. So I mean, I did talk to my peers at that time, try to get a sense of what they were applying for, you know, their reasons for applying to different schools. But at the end of the day, I think it was just visiting the college and having that sense that this was a place where I belonged. Okay, that's awesome. And I want to follow up with something you'd mentioned, you talked about going to union and asking questions and seeing the students in that program and realizing that it would be okay for you too. So I want to ask you, what did you go to the program and specifically in Ajay, you can answer to, did you go and specifically ask questions? How do you like it? What, what, what do you like about it? What don't you like about it? Because I think that's something as we're looking at undergraduate institutions and even medical schools, we, we don't do a good job of. I agree with you. I know what I did is I actually did an overnight stay at, at union before I chose to go there. And I stayed with one of the students who was in this program. So, you know, I spend the entire evening with her. I met all of the other students that she that she was interacting with. I saw the classrooms where she was taking classes that in and where I would be taking classes and if I was going there. And definitely I asked a lot of questions about, you know, why did she choose this program? What drew her to come all the way out to union? What about the program drew her? And I think in listening to her stories and the stories of her friends, I was able to better solidify what I was looking for and trying to kind of get a sense of whether my experiences and my expectations would be met if I came to the program as well. Perfect. And Ajay, did you have a similar experience of kind of going out and scoping out union? Yeah, I mean, I came, you know, I was coming from all the way. Union is an upstate New York. So, I was coming from, you know, hundreds of miles away. So, I really knew I needed to kind of make it count when I went for my first visit. And I remember, you know, they have special tours that actually the leadership and medicine students give to prospective students who want to, you know, her interested in the program. And I actually remember I was getting this great tour, asking all these questions. And, you know, the woman who gave me my tour actually is now a third year here at Albany Med and I see her every day. And, you know, she still kind of serves as a mentor and advisor to me. So, I would say that, you know, really asking about the program and your fit and seeing if those are the kind of people, because you got to remember for combining reprogramms, those people will eventually be your colleagues. They'll be the people who you'll be working with on your clerkships and rotations, making sure you can get along with those people. And, you know, you have some similar interests, but also that it's a kind of diversity and the kind of environment that you want academically, as well as extracurricularly, is so important. So, asking those questions because knowing that, you know, one day you'll be working with them, I think, is of the utmost importance. Yeah. So, just one more thing I wanted to add, you know, when we did the combined degree program, kind of tour, like, we also came to Albany Med. And, you know, we interviewed at Albany Med, we got to meet some of the professors at Albany Med, some of the students who had gone through the program and were now medical students. And I think that was a very important factor, especially if you are looking into a combined degree program, you can't just look into the undergraduate institution. You have to make sure both schools are a fit for you. Yeah. And that was my next question was, did you go to the medical school? Because, obviously, if you're committing to eight years, you're committing to the medical school, as well. So, you need to make sure that that's a fit for you as well. Definitely. Okay. Awesome. So, tell me about or tell the people listening right now, what was it like to go through, and this has kind of turned into a dual degree interview. It's interesting. What was it like to go through your undergraduate years knowing that you already had an acceptance into medical school? Oh, I'll take this one, for sure. No, because when this is part of the reason I decided on a combined degree program is the edge that kind of pre-med edge kind of gets taken off by a combined degree program and allows you to throw your energy into other things that you want to be working on as a student and as a scholar and as a learner. I mean, my interest in journalism started entirely for my freshman year of college, just working with the concordiances and it turned into a whole possible career for me as a physician. So, I would say being able to get out there and explore, try new things, not be as risk adverse as pre-medical students are. And that's really one of the great benefits of a combined degree program, especially when you're an undergrad, is being able to explore your other interests in a way that you may not be able to if you're a traditional pre-med. So, you don't think you would have gotten into, I don't know if you can really answer that, but you don't think maybe you would have gotten into the concordian and doing the writing and publishing and all of that if you were a traditional pre-med student? I honestly, you know what you're right, it is hard to answer that question, but I don't know if I would have given the same amount of energy and commitment and kind of passion to those had I been a traditional pre-med, I don't think so. Were there any restrictions on like grades, like you had to maintain certain grades and stuff, so you couldn't like totally slack off? Right, all the programs have a GPA requirement and in our case, there's also the requirement of getting one science-based major and one nine science-based major and also of course the MS or MBA in healthcare administration, so there are restrictions, so it's not like you're just you know, slacking off the entire time, but definitely, you know, allows you a little bit of wiggle room, which is kind of what you need. Okay, that's awesome. Yeah, and I guess from from my perspective, I thought that what was so great about the program is that when like, you know, at union as part of the program, you still have to do everything that the other pre-medical students were doing. We were still shadowing, we were still doing research, we were still doing clinical hours, you know, we were still volunteering, so everything that a traditional pre-medical student, you know, does, we did as well, but I think it was different this case because we weren't doing it for the sake of an application or for an interview process, we were doing it for the sake of, you know, okay, this is going to serve me when I get into medical school, I want to make sure I'm prepared for medical school. So, I mean, I know for me, there was definitely that distinction that, hey, I should try something new so that I can develop myself, see if this is something that I want to take forward into when I'm in medical school or when I'm beyond medical school. Definitely. And I think so I think it's at that small distinction of, you know, what is the end goal? Like, who's going to be looking at it? And I mean, I would actually say that I probably would have gotten involved in these the same activities that I did, whether I was a traditional pre-medical student or whether I was, you know, or being in the combined degree program, I think it has, it comes down to, you do have to make certain decisions and take certain risks in terms of what are you passionate about. And I think college, no matter what you are, what type of student you are when you're in college is the time to explore, the time to really look into your passions. And you never know what you might find. Like, you might come into college like being a pre-medical student or a combined degree program and really wanting to do that, but throughout the course of your college education, like things can change. Like we, we definitely had close friends who during the program, they decided that, you know, maybe medicine wasn't the best direction for them, but maybe like law school or global health, you know, one of our friends is doing global mental health. Like, that's their, that's what they, what drew them. So I think you definitely, no matter what you're doing, you definitely have to keep your eye open and make sure you explore your passions in doing that. Yeah. And I like the, that you use that term passionate find, find what your passions are, because I get a ton of questions. Do, do I need to do this kind of research? Do I need to do this kind of volunteering? Do I need to do this kind of shadowing? And, and the answer always comes back to do what you're passionate about, because in the end, that will shine on your application. And, and you will shine during your interviews when you start talking about it, because you're passionate about it. So yeah. There was one other question that came to mind why you were talking about the dual degree program and traditional students. And the, the question is, do you think being in the dual degree program, did you have better guidance and sense of direction and what was going on versus a traditional pre med student, which I'm sure you had friends that were traditional pre med students. Did, did you think you had a better understanding of everything that you had to do and needed to do and were a little bit less lost than he or classmate? See, probably because, you know, from the day we walked in as first year students, we definitely had a list of courses that we were required to take, you know, like, because our program was, you know, just a backdrop of it, because our program is a BS and an MBA and the MD, we had a lot of requirements and a lot of set classes that we had to take at set times to make sure everything fit in within, you know, the next number of years that we had. So I think in terms of like classes, we probably had less flexibility than a traditional student would have had. And because of that, we kind of knew which classes that we needed to take. So that was one aspect of it. And I do agree, you know, having that sense of, okay, I know where I will be in, you know, two years, three years, or where I'm expected to be. I think that didn't make things a little easier. But at Union, you know, the, we had the same guidance in terms of the health professions office for the leadership in medicine program and the traditional premedicence was the same office. So we were definitely talking to the same people and asking to the same and asking the same and administrators or questions. So I don't know if there was, I don't think there was a difference in that. Okay. Ajay, I don't know what your opinion is on that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we have actually a pretty phenomenal premed department at Union. And I agree with you, Alina, that the mindset, I think, is what makes a difference between a combined degree student and a traditional student is, you know, for us, it's kind of, we're already looking ahead towards four or five years out about, you know, what we'll be doing during medical school, whereas I think traditional pre-medical students, you know, a lot of them are primarily concerned with, you know, what's happening the next year, what's happened the next two years. I think that frame of that kind of time frame difference, I think reflects kind of differently on how you're able to work through your undergraduate education. Awesome. So before we get started on what you guys are doing now with in training, I want to ask what was the biggest struggle that you had as a premed? Oh, that's a really good question. Oh, man. Is that you want to take this one? That's what other premeds want to hear. Yeah, they want to hear that they're not alone. Definitely, you know, they're definitely will struggle. I mean, obviously, like, struggle through or go organic chemistry, whether no matter what type of student you are, it's still a struggle, you know, like having physics and all those core, all those pre-medical courses, it's definitely something that you have to get through. I think for me, like very specifically, one thing was, because I had the opportunity to explore the sciences and the arts and, you know, the humanities and like do this MBA, there was a question about, you know, is medical school the right direction for me? Or should I, you know, should I continue with my sociology degree and, you know, my advisor at Union, she was a medical sociologist, so should I do that? Or should I take the MBA and help administration and go into a field related to that? So I think there was a sense of, for me at least there was a sense of like, okay, am I getting the medical degree and then, you know, looking at those different aspects or should I try something else? And I think that was, you know, it took a term or two just to like really thinking about it, but I think at the end of the day, it made the right decision for me. Okay. Yeah, I would say, Alina, I would absolutely agree with you. There is this, I think it's actually pretty healthy. I know, at least freshman year of college, I spent quite a bit of time wondering if the combined degree, you know, track was really right for me and, you know, was medical school right for me. I think that's healthy to really think about that, because it allows you to hone down kind of your reasons for wanting to enter the profession of medicine. I know for me, I had a lot of same thoughts, especially with journalism. I was like, well, I don't need journalism, something you can do with medicine. I don't know. Would I be happier in life if I went on and became a reporter or you know, went off and did something with my MBA. You do question that a lot. And I think, you know, especially for our first year of college, really rough, just being like, is this, am I making the right choice with this, with this program? Is this really what I want to dedicate, you know, the next eight years of my life to or more? Yeah, I would say that. But I think, you know, having speaking to, to, you know, your upperclassmen colleagues, speaking your pre-med advisors, speaking to family and friends, I think is very helpful in letting you kind of ask yourself those questions and get some feedback on them, for sure. That's good advice. I mean, that is a very big decision to make when you're in high school. Like if you decided to do a combined degree program and commit to it, you're committing to a profession that at that time, you know, very little about at a very young age. Yeah. And it, for, I know there's some high school listeners out there listening that you can go and shadow a physician in high school. It's okay to do that. Yeah, sure. And get it, get that exposure that you need and make your decision a little bit easier, hopefully. So you guys are in medical school now. Yes. Yes. And in the throes of it, where are you right now in medical school? So we are currently second years. We are in the middle of our cardiology theme. How's that going? Such it's going. It's a, it's a, it's a, you know, very fast moving a few weeks. Yes. Yeah, for sure. That's awesome. I remember it like it was yesterday. And I try to forget it every day. But so, okay. So you guys are, you guys did a BS, MBA, MD. So three degrees in eight years. Correct. And you've got out and started in training. Yep. Can you tell me about that decision to, to start this whole venture? So go for it, Alina. Okay. So we always tell the story about how, you know, when we were in college, obviously, we had a great time doing the school newspaper and we learned so much from that process. And it was something that we really took away lessons with, just about communicating with other members of society, just communicating and really putting your own thoughts out there. And that's something we wanted to continue as medical students. And at the same time, we wanted to continue and provide to our medical school peers. Now, to be completely honest, we started in training when we were still in undergrad before we had started the med school portion of our journey. So I don't know if, if the idea had come to us, you know, a few months later, I don't know if that, you know, if everything would have unfolded as it did. So, but because we were, you know, senior year of college, you know, we knew we were going off to medical school. And we were excited about all that. And we were down at a conference in Atlanta of the Student National Medical Association. And we had the chance to speak to a physician who had done some physician journalism work and who was doing some reporting. And we spoke to her and our initial idea was just to restart the Albany Medical College School newspaper. And then when we talked to her, she kind of said something along the lines of like, you know, we're in this new information technological era. Why don't you go ahead and go big? And I think that's when the idea hit. That's kind of where we said, okay, like, what does that mean? What does it mean to take this and go big? Yeah. That's awesome. And so we set the next couple of months, really in that kind of summer, but, you know, before we started at medical school, you know, and I it's because the MBA education is kind of a boon because it was our first place to look for for guidance in starting this publication. So we wrote bylaws, we did a niche analysis, we kind of looked at other publications that were doing similar things. We, you know, talked to legal expertise, you know, we spoke some bioethicist, you know, we really wanted to have a strong foundation of management principles when we started the publication because it was really the only way we knew how to get some, you know, long-term, the possibility for the publication will be long-term at all. And then July 12 or July of 2012 is when we went live at intraining.org. And it's been quite a little journey ever since. Yeah. What do you guys write about? Like, what's the main focus? If I was a medical student or even a premed student, why would I go to intraining and start reading? Definitely. So, so because Ajay and I came from a strict journalism background, when we initially thought about creating and training, we thought that we were going to get a lot of news faces. We thought it was going to be medical students kind of talking about, "Hey, my school is doing some new innovative research. We want to talk about it." And then when we initially started in training, we just sent out a general call for submissions. And amazingly, like almost all of the submissions that we got initially were reflections. So these were reflections from medical students at all stages of their education talking about their experiences. So whether it is getting the white code or, you know, seeing the cadaver for the first time, the first dissection, the first patient, you know, that they saw the first patient that they saw pass away, picking a specialty. Students send us like an influx of pieces on their experiences. And what we realized, just go like navigating those first few months, was that for the longest time, medical students haven't had, they have just not had a place to go to talk about their experiences. You know, they might talk to their friends or family members or their colleagues, but it wasn't the same, it wasn't the experience that they were looking for. They didn't have a forum to really share those day-to-day experiences with. And that's what we, you know, got on in training initially. And I think that kind of changed our entire mindset about what in training could be. Like it opened up so many more avenues for us, because students were coming to us with their stories and their own unique perspectives on medicine, like ready to go and ready to share. Yeah. And as we kind of gained speed and gained a lot more exposure, we started to see medical students writing in about, you know, things under the reflections, policy, you know, the latest things going on in undergraduate and graduate medical education, bioethics, law, you know, comments on the way that they think medical education and the medical system should be run about, you know, health systems analysis. We started getting these articles that really dealt with the structural issues that we had in healthcare today. And now actually we've come full circle and we do have a cohort of our writers who are actually doing original reporting for in training on conferences that we've been invited to. And it's really, you know, with that exposure and kind of with the legitimacy that having those reflections has built, we've built this nice little community of medical students who are talking about a variety of issues within within medical education. So I would say to any medical students listening, you know, entering is a great place to see what your peers are thinking about on a national and also international scale. It's a great place to, you know, find some people to collaborate with and to kind of build a sense of community that we haven't really had for a while here in medical school. Yeah, it sounds like a great place to, to for pre-med to kind of understand what's going on at the next level. I actually agree with you. You know, we talked about earlier that when we were talking, when we were picking a school, we kind of went and we talked to students who are at our undergraduate institutions and we got a sense of what their education was like and how satisfied they were with it. And I think that's what you'll get if you go to in training, like any pre-medical student who goes to in training is going to get a real sense of what are both the challenges and the joys of being a medical student. What does it actually mean at the end? You know, it's one thing to sit and think, okay, I should apply to medical school. I'll become a doctor in the end, but what are those four years like? How are you going to change as a person in those four years? And I think that's what in training will provide pre-med students. And it's a point of pride for us that we are a publication that's entirely run by medical students. Our editorial board, which is now 16 medical students across the United States and actually Canada as well, you know, it provides an unfiltered, unbiased view of what the medical student experience is like. That's something you can't get a lot. You can't get from a lot of other resources. And it really allows pre-medical students to see exactly as Alina said, kind of what they're getting themselves into and what it means to be part of that journey and not just the end point of I'm going to be a doctor, you know, now what happens. So as soon as you graduate and you're a doctor, you get fired from in training. That's what I'm hearing. Actually, yes. Yeah, it's part of our mission that, you know, it will always be the editors and she will always be medical students because we really feel strongly that that's the best way to present, you know, to retain the integrity of the medical student voice is to always have medical students running the show. So, you know, we'll be serving in an advisory role, but for sure it'll always be a medical student that'll be, you know, kind of managing the publication. Okay. And then, you know, who knows what the future holds. I'm sure once Adjian and I are in residency and we, you know, have that on somewhat under control, we'll think about what we can do for our students who are moving with us because I'm pretty sure the students who are working for them training right now won't want to give it up. So we'll definitely have to find a way to transition. It's okay. It's okay to change and grow and modify. The bylaws are meant to be modified. Exactly. Are you guys looking for writers? Yes. If a medical student's listening, how do they go and or pre-med that's starting med school next year and wants to start writing, how do they write for you guys? All they have to do is go to intrain.org, go to our about page. There's an email address editor in chief@intrain.org and email us and we'll work with them to figure out something they can write about or if they've got something really passionate they feel about that they want to write about we're willing to accept our goals of any type and in any style. Awesome. All right. So I want to end with what you think is the biggest piece of advice that you would give a pre-med starting their journey right now. I truly think it's very important for any student, no matter what level of their, what point they are in their education, to identify what they're passionate about and because even if you end up in medical school and you're going to become a doctor, being a doctor is not the only thing you'll be doing. You'll be having an entire life and an entire career revolving around being a physician and because of that I think it's very important to figure out what you're passionate about whether it's something as simple as like what hobbies can you do to relax to what do you want to tackle as somebody who's a member as a productive member of the community. So really finding what you're passionate about and really allowing that to develop I think is a very important aspect. Awesome. So I would say finding a really good group, I know this is probably a little against the norm, but taking time to relax. I mean pre-medical students and Alina and myself included, we're so hyped up, we have so much work to do, there's so much to do, finding a good group of friends to hang out with and relax and talk about something other than medicine I think is so important. Allowing yourself to be able to talk about our literature, culture, what have you, things outside the medical profession I think will make you such a more well-rounded learner and to be frank a much better physician and more well-rounded that you are as a physician. The more you'll be able to talk to your patients really engage with them and as Alina said earlier become a part of their life. So I think taking time to relax, do things outside of your pre-medical courses, finding a good group of friends to hang out with I think are so key to your own kind of personal sanity and health as you move forward in this journey. And that's probably how you find your passions as well. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more Ajay. I think in a field where, and I talked about it on a previous podcast with Dr. Drummond all about physician burnout. In a field where we are taught to put others before ourselves, I think you have that tendency to burnout and even as pre-meds and in medical school you're going 110% all the time. And I like to use the analogy. My wife Allison, who's not on the show today, but we always talk about food and eating on the wards. It's one of those small things that you don't think about. But when you're running around the floor and you're there for 12 hours and you haven't thought twice about eating, I always say food comes first. I don't care what's going on unless a code is going on obviously. Food for me comes first because I can't do the patient any good. If I'm flat on my face because I'm hypoglycemic. Exactly. So your comment about relaxing and finding some other things to do to take care of yourself, whether it's exercise, whether it's anything going exploring. Read a book. Read a non textbook, yes. Yes. And you know, those habits that you develop definitely carry on with you to medical school. Like even now, I usually have a novel on my nightstand that I'm, you know, obviously taking me much longer to get through because I'm in med school. But it's always nice at the end of the day to pick up something that that's just for yourself. That's just for you to relax and just for you to, you know, have some time for yourself. All right, guys, that was a Jay and Alina from intraining.org. I think it's kind of crazy to do an a BS an MBA and an MD in eight years and start what is becoming one of the best places to go for medical students to share their stories and read other people's stories. So go give them a a shout out there intraining.org. It's in hyphen training.org. You can go say hi to them on Twitter. Their, their handle is at intraining doc D O C. So go say hi to them. Let them know you heard about them on the medical school HQ podcast. Please continue this conversation. You can do that at medical school HQ net slash 60. That's in six zero as an episode 60. And you can go there that all the show notes will be there links to their website links to their Twitter will be there. You can leave a comment and continue the conversation with us. You can also send a tweet to me. I am at medical school HQ. I hope you guys learned a lot about dual degree programs or or triple degree programs as was the case today. And we'll use that information as you continue on your path to becoming a physician. I look forward to having you next time here at the medical school headquarters. [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
