On this week’s episode we had the pleasure of hosting Style and Direction’s @ethanmwong. What does the M stand for? We talked about his clothing origin story, how to dress when it’s hotter than hell, Inspector Gadget’s trench coat, gatekeeping, “Dapper Day” at Disneyland, cinematic dressing, being a podcasting OG, being addicted to getting stuff done, and a whooole lot more.
Apocalypse Duds
A Fear of Dying with Ethan Wong
On this week's episode we had the pleasure of hosting Style and Direction's @ethanmwong. What does the M stand for? We talked about his clothing origin story, how to dress when it's hotter than hell, Inspector Gadget's trench coat, gatekeeping, "Dapper Day" at Disneyland, cinematic dressing, being a podcasting OG, being addicted to getting stuff done, and a whooole lot more.
- Duration:
- 1h 16m
- Broadcast on:
- 20 Jun 2024
- Audio Format:
- aac
- Welcome everyone. Here we are again. - Here we are. - You can count on our next guest to straighten out your tax return, but he's more interested in straightening your tie. Our next guest is the Navy Blazer of Creative Endeavors. He thinks he writes, he photographs, he podcasts, a composer, an amazing station of content creation. A mastermind of managing a maestro of marketing. We're honored to be graced by someone who may actually have menswear as their middle name, Ethan M. Wong. Welcome. - I can't believe I've never made that joke. (laughing) I was sure that you would have made it. - Yeah, seriously, it would have been a trend territory. - You know what, I like to think that I'm a very funny and witty and smart person, but there are just things that just escape me and that's so good. I can't believe it. Like menswear, I can't believe it. That's crazy. - Dude, that's funny. You don't even have to credit it. You can just take it. You can have it. - That was Connor's idea anyway, so he's just giving it to you. - And we're all about free use. We're all about everything. Nothing is copyrighted. - Open source, man. - Open source, open source. - Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. - Ethan, how you doing today? It's 814 on our coast and I think it's 514 on the left coast. - That's right. You know, for those for keen listeners who love to listen to me across everything, I've had a couple of interviews with my pal Reggie at the Fashion Geek podcast. He always teases me about my weather over here. And you know, it's, and so the place that I live, I guess that my house has bad insulation. So it's hot when it's hot, it's cold when it's cold. - Gotcha. - And you think, you know, I'm a little chicken 'cause you know, I live in California, but I swear, like it is my, like, my also like, my window is facing like the sun. - Ah, yeah. - You guys can see it in like, you know, and you're thinking like the light is coming in. And so I am kinda toasty, which is why I'm wearing, for those, you know, spoiler, I'm wearing a T-shirt and not a sport coat today. - You know. - That's so, it's so funny. I was wondering what you were gonna wear. (laughing) - It is funny that I wear, you know, I feel like I always, I always, you know, some expectations every once in a while, you know. Usually the Tuesday, you know. - Well, how do you? - I go to trivia. - My question. - Yeah. - Of course, of course, of course. And everyone knows about the trivia league. - Yeah. - What is the, what is the secret? We're gonna be asking you about a lot of your secrets. - So I love it. What is the secret to dressing when it is hot? 'Cause you wear some shit and I'm like, he's gotta be baking and he's not even sweating. - I, okay. So I think number one, I don't sweat as much as people, as like a normal person does, but that could also be just be wrong. Like, maybe my sensitivity is different. However, I like to wear, you know, open weave, you know, clothing, you know, open weave walls as much as possible, big breezy linens, big, high-waisted, but very breezy, full cut pants. And I think as I've, you know, as of 28 years of life on this earth, I feel that I sweat more when I have more skin contact when it's hot. - Yeah, I agree. - Yeah, it's like, it's a weather thing. It's also like a sensitivity thing. We're like, you know, like, I'll get like a weird, not like a rash, but I'll get kind of weird if like, things are like kind of too weird on my body. So like, I tend to wear, which is crazy, I know like, like V-neck undershirts in like, you know, regular cotton, because ribbed tanks sometimes rub me kind of weird on my body and I will sweat more because of that. So that basically does a little even more. - The one thing I have ever published is it was an article in my school's newspaper about undershirts, understanding undershirts. Of course, it's the title of the piece, but like, the point is you should wear the V-neck, you should wear the V-neck because it's more versatile, right? And I didn't think at the time be for versatile, but it is, it just makes more sense. - No, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, you wear an OCD, you know, during the day with a knit tie or whatever, and then as your day goes on, you unbutton it. And it still looks good. - Right. - Although I will say the crew neck T-shirt underneath an OCD, that's very classic Ivy also, I just like a little bit of sex appeal. If you can call the two or three buttons sexy, you know, let's go. - Right, it is, it is. - It is, I wish you could have sized this school. One of my colleagues who's been on this program said, where does Mr. Connor think he's going with his shirt buttons like that? And I was like, this is only like, this is only a few down, this is only a few down, but. - Yeah, you're not going navel on this, you know, you know. - Right. - You're not going down to the belly button. - Right, you're not. - Yeah, I am also in the always covered camp. Like I get weird tans because I roll my sleeves up, but I always have long sleeves on. I learned it from a guy that I used to work with when I delivered batteries. And he was like, yeah, man, if I'm wearing long sleeves, like my skin is not as hot because it's not getting as much sunlight. I think that's it. - Yeah, it's. - I think that's the thing. - It's real. - I think so. - Oh yeah. No, I mean, it's this, I'm sitting with like pants. I feel like I sweat more with shorts because of like skin contact to the sun and to like, when I'm sitting down, but like when there's pants, I'm like protected kind of. I don't know, it's weird. I don't know. - I think it makes like a very intuitive sense almost like. - I think so too. - You should have more protecting your epidermis from the world. - Well, I mean, it's large. - You know, right, we have sun hats and things that are supposed to like, you know, keep you cool or whatever. So why would that concept not, you know, not replicate on other parts of the body that aren't your head? - We really are breaking new scientific ground. - We are breaking new scientific. - People should just be like me, just wear a bunch of clothing. Come on guys, that's all right. - That's all of our goal. - That's all. - I always tell everyone, I'm like, I'm gonna be hot either way. And this way I don't get sunburned. So fuck you. - Exactly. - You don't look like, you don't, neither of you looks like a hog. Like neither of you looks like. 'Cause then I'm like, right now, I'm like, perspiring slightly. And it's like, I'm in my house with a fan on. But it just-- - Are you drinking enough water? - Yeah, dude, I only drink water. And I don't drink alcohol. So I'm drinking soda water right now. This is probably my eighth soda water of the day. At least. - Breaking other new ground. - Right. There you go. Never come for my hydration. - Yeah, it's true. Connor is very hydrated. So-- - It's a lot-- - Ethan, widely known. - To kick things off-- - Yes. - Do you have, we asked this question a lot, but do you have an item or a style or something that first made an impact on you as far as clothing goes? - Oh my God. You know, I feel like every time, it's such a great question, 'cause I feel like I'm continually trying to find like the impetus for everything that I do. Like every blog post is like me finding something new about myself and finding something new thing. And from the past specifically, and I, you know, at first it was like, oh, was it like a suit that I wore to church? You know, there was a thing when I was younger where my mom told me that a blue button-up shirt is more casual than a white one. And it kind of makes sense, right? Like as we know from like menswear rules and everything. But I remember that, I'm like, oh cool, so like if I wear this, I'm like still wearing a button-up shirt, but I'm not really fussy. And then like I thought about that, then I'm like, oh, but also like there was the Inspector Gadget trench coat that my mom, like my aunt made for me. But I would wear all the time, ever since that movie came out. And then like his old photos of me wearing it, like to like family trips. And you know, it was made of like this like really thin cotton that, you know, my aunt found, you know, at the Joanne's or whatever. And so there's a lot of photos of me wearing that. And then like an actual jacket on top of it, 'cause my parents don't want like a five year old kid, you know, getting a cold or the flu. And so like maybe like that's it. But then there's also other stuff too where like I, you know, if we were, if we want to take this to like when I was like a teenager, when I was in college, I got like one of my first suits was like a, one of my first fashion suits, I should say, like at H&M, they had like this like navy and red window pane, but it wasn't like a hard window pane. It was very like vintage-y looking. I'm sure it was like fully polyester, but it had like a like kind of like this like texture to it, like kind of like a, you know, like, I don't know what you call it. Almost like CRISPR that you would say nowadays, but it was like really cool, like, you know, two button suit, whatever. But it looked kind of vintage, you know, like that was a really big thing. And I wore that, you know, before I started getting into vintage and I remember seeing my vintage, like a belt back in the, you know, for the first time in like those 1930s stuff. So there's always been like things that I see that I get like obsessed with. I mean, that's the whole thing with menswear, right? It's like, you find the thing that you like, you know, like, holy shit, that's the thing. And then you do that. And then you find something else or whatever. In my case, it just adds like, I don't abandon things. It just continually, the list of things that I enjoy just gets bigger and bigger. Totally, as it should be, you know, yeah. Well, it's amazing because you have all this to those who don't know. You have all this photos of all this. Yeah. You have the photos for this. You have essays you've written about this. Like, just amazing. Just the depth of it is amazing. I know, you can call me weird. It's okay. You know, that's another way of saying it. No, no, no, not at all. I think part like portrait, perfect guest. Like, you have the whole thing. You think about it all the time. Yeah, I know, it's funny. I don't even know where that even kind of got started. I mean, I just, I always like taking photos. I've always been kind of like a, I guess like a blogger or dire, direist, I guess, you know. Right, the photos, the photos came very like far away. I would say, I mean, you know, I loved, you know, taking photos as a kid. Like, like getting my, I guess my photo taken. Like my parents, you know, would always have their film camera. And then I remember, you know, like in high school, I got a DSLR that like begged my parents to give me because at first I wanted to make videos and DSLRs could shoot video and take photos. And so like, oh, you know, if you do this, I could do both. And then, you know, obviously I can't be making videos all the time, so I would just use to take photos. And I was like on the school yearbook and I was also like the media person for the student association. So taking photos of like every school event, stuff like that. And then of course, getting a tumbler back in like 2008 when I was like, you know, 12 or 13 years old, I would just like post stuff there. You know, now of course I would like consume photos that I would see on tumbler. And so photos as a way to document whatever I'm up to, to document friends has always been around. And then I'm like, well, I should like write about what's happening. And so like eventually I would like just blog about my day. Usually it's about having a bad day where like kids at school would make plans in front of me and then not invite me to the mall. And so I'd just be like, today was kind of sad, you know? And hey, all of that kind of plays into the, eventually became a little bit of rest in the podcast. So kind of funny. - No, it is kind of, I don't know, it's remarkable. It's like you, I'm not very much older than you. I'm 34, but like there is a difference in our ages in terms of computers, right? And social media, it's significant, I think. Like, yeah, I mean tumbler was big and useful. I mean, Matt was extremely involved with tumbling. But I think, yeah, I mean my, the clothing thing is a, like you were saying, is a combination of things. It's a combination of a lot of things. - No, yeah. - It's a additive. - Yeah, I mean, you know, I've always had conversations with people about like technology and especially, you know, for me as someone who has been so in tune with it. I feel like, I'm sure I've said this before in my podcast or kind of hinted at it, but I feel like for me it was because I didn't have like a lot of friends. And I know that in most cases people would use that to like find IRL ways to connect with people. But, you know, growing up Christian and everything or specifically set up at the Adventist and having a very insular experience. Like the only outlet was like embracing the internet, you know what I mean? And it was kind of like, there wasn't a lot of stuff. - I feel you 100%. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. 'Cause it's, yeah, it's a replacement for, you know, I don't want to say like, you know, that everyone do it, but I know for me it kind of taught me that way. I like kind of embrace social media early on. And I still try and use it in a positive way today as a way to like make friends as opposed to like just, it's not a means to an end for me. I mean, I mean, you guys know that right, you know? - Yeah, you're not a tool about it. It's like, it's about fostering community. And that is good in every case, I think. - Yeah. - Yeah, so I mean, I guess we see there are some bad communities, but. - Right, that's true. - The men's wear one, and like, you know, Connor mentioned, I like, I lived in New York in kind of the golden age, like 2011 to 2014 of the like Tumblr era. But, you know, the men's wear community as a whole seems, you know, seems less susceptible, mostly, especially now to like douchebags that are just like trying to be, you know, trying to be mean to everyone. It's like, oh, cool. Like we're, we all just realized that we're nerds and like we connect on some level. And it's like, okay, everyone's on the same page here. - Yeah, that's something I always found like really nice about men's wear, at least the people that I've met and hung out with and the people that we, that we were all mutuals with. Because, yeah, I mean, yeah, the, it can seem intimidating, right? I know to a lot of people and it can, and it can still look intimidating, you know, and it's kind of like, even today, like my, I've been told like, like my friends can seem intimidating. I'm like, that's crazy, 'cause if we're like the dumbest people, there are. - Dude, seriously. - And it's, I mean, like, it's, you know, it's a combination of like, you know, seeing people who are confident and people wearing clothes at the way that we do. And like, you know, of course, it's gonna be some kind of like, you know, preconceptions there. But I'm like, man, that's how I felt about like, real people, like people like in bespoke or whatever, you know? So, it's just kind of funny how like, there's always levels to this. And, you know, we can't escape it, but the hope is that you try at least to show how open you are. And, yeah. - Hey, do you like clothing that's well made? You can listen to us, we assume you do. Our long-time comrade, Ava Kuel, is the founder and created behind a gnarly brand called Eveline. She offers thoughtfully designed and graphic garments made right here in the USA at a non-bougie price. Eveline's sayfuls like the Doyle Wertjacket, the more directional Kanagata and the infamous River Chino have been captivating her clientele for more than a decade. Commitment to offering unique, interesting fabrics and a staunchly consistent fit is unrivaled. In casual outerwear, tomato order, RTC, Taylor clothing, Eveline offers garment for any occasion. Visit Eveline@fren.com and enter the code DUDKAST 10 or 10% off your first order. - And it's certainly much more open, right? Like I feel even in the past, like, even in the past year, there has been, there's been serious, like, diversification of the men's wear space to include all sorts of people, which is tight because what is the point of being exclusive? - Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, like, I don't see it, I don't see what the positive point is in, like, gatekeeping or whatever. Like, I never-- - Yeah, absolutely not. - I never understood it. Like, I mean, that's maybe because I, again, like I said earlier, I never really belonged to a, you know, social group. And so maybe what I'm saying is kind of, like, heresy to a lot of stuff, but it's like, wouldn't you want other people to get into this too, you know? - Yes, yes, like, you know, I think we talk about this a lot. You know, a lot of us come from various, like, types of cell cultures or communities, you know, and gatekeeping has never been something that makes any sense to me. It's like, you know, I want to like, I want someone to have the same reaction to whatever the fuck I'm interested in that I do. And it's like, oh, when I find that person, it's like, yo, you care about this, like, incredibly niche thing too? That's how it should be. - Absolutely, no, yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, 'cause I just, yeah, I never understood why, what was the point of gatekeeping? Like, who, like, you're gonna keep it a secret, but you also want people to feel good about, like, if you want people to respect it, like, I don't get it, I just don't understand it. - Well, it's that same, it's the same thing that happens all the time, right? It's like, you people stay away, you people stay close to me because we are the same, but you people fuck off. - Yeah, well, I mean, you know, finding, finding community is important. And that is always, like, anything that I've ever been into from, you know, from clothing to, like, music or whatever, I just wanna be around people that give a fuck about the same thing. And if anybody shows interest, you can separate the week from the chat. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's not a, yeah, but there shouldn't be a barrier like, a barrier or a ventrary. If you see this person doesn't care, then you don't have to associate with it. But, yeah, yeah, like, it's just, yeah, like, anybody that wants to be into the incredibly, like, nerdy stuff that we are all into, I'm game, as long as you're cool. Like, if you, if you act like a douchebag, fuck off. But other than that, you know, like, there's a, there's a pretty low bar, like, just show, you know, show all of us that there's like a passion there or an interest there. - Absolutely, I definitely, I definitely agree. I mean, it's kind of the idea, too, that I, one of the things I believe in is like, I think that anyone can get into it, you know. - Totally. - And so it's like, it's like, if they just, if they just find out how cool these pants are, like, they're gonna love it just as much as I do. That's my toxic trait, actually. It's just like, if I just tell them this cool thing about how the way this lapel goes or how this interacts with this, like, I know they're gonna be obsessed with it like me. And, and like, 50% of the time I'm wrong. But, - Right, right. - I'm like, yes, yes, and then. - Again, it's a particular, it's a nice kind of thing. - Yeah. - But if you get it, you get it, you know. - There is this, like, there is, like, a unique sadness to trying to get someone interested in something that they, like, really don't give a fuck about. That I think with clothing is even more, I don't know, like, I have people who bought things on my request that they probably didn't want, you know? And it's just like, that sucks, but, like, you know, you had to try something new. - Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's why I'm always like, if, like, you don't have to spend the money if you don't want to. Like, if people ask me for recommendations, I'm like, just to be clear, you can go to the mall and buy whatever you want. You know, like, you don't have to, you know, buy the thing that I'm offering to you. But if you do, here's why it's cool. But, you know, and then I didn't let them do it. - At one point, to get them to buy the stuff. - Yeah. - I would say, this would be flattering on you. It would look nice on you. And then they would get it and they would not wear it. - Yeah, unfortunately. - But it's life, right? - Well, Connor, this is the other side of the coin is that the things that I sell you not to buy, you buy anyway and enjoy it, so. - Right, right. - You know, we all exist in this world. We all have people that give us random types of either encouragement or discouragement, and then we do whatever we do. - Yeah, no, that's, I mean, I always wonder what that is. I mean, I think I'm usually, my friends know what my taste is, and so I feel like I do lean into them. If I, I'm seldom on the fence. For me, it's like, if I pick it up, if I share it with you, I'm probably gonna buy this thing. I'm probably just waiting for you to be like, "Yes, Ethan, buy that." I'm waiting for this thing. - Right, right, yeah, yeah. - There's been very few times where someone's like, "You don't need that." And that's usually because I find something that's close to what I already have, and I'm like, "Okay, you're right." But if it's like something, if it's something I don't own, I'm probably gonna buy it because I don't own it. - Which is crazy. - Considering the amount of clothes behind me, you know. There's not that much that I, there's not, the list of things that I like and don't own is not that big. - Right. - Yeah. - Right. Everyone needs a hobby. Everyone needs a hobby. - Yeah. And clothing is a good one. Clothing is a good one because you need it anyway. - Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can't just be naked. I mean, you know, you, I mean, maybe you can if you work from home, but you're eventually gonna need clothing. - This is a good program. (laughing) - That's been, that's been like a day one guest idea also. Like find a nudist. What's the deal with that? (laughing) When was the last minute you wore clothes? - Yeah, that would be really, my concern with, with nudists is, is not, is not the embarrassment of being nude, but it's more so like, are you ever concerned of getting something dirty when you sit on it? You know what I'm saying? It's like. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - My concern is like, I'm cooking with boiling oil. - Yeah. - I don't want that on my body. - Well, do you, do nudists wear clothes? - Yeah. But do nudists wear protective clothing if they need it? Like if they're out in the sun. - Now we're asking the real question. - Yeah. - Can a nudist wear an apron? - That's our welding mask. - Yeah, I mean apron is clothing kind of, but it's not like a fit. It's not like, yeah, every day thing. We don't wear aprons out. - So maybe that's, maybe that's their Sabbath exception. They are not to wear service clothing. - That's so, I never even thought of that. That is so good. Yeah. They must be able to do that. - In under 25 minutes, we have devolved into so many different parts of-- - That's the Ethan effect. That's the whole thing that I can do. - Dude, I love it. I fucking love it. It's, yeah, we're breaking new ground constantly here on the pop lipsticks. - I love it. - Well, who, I mean, who has ever considered that? - Yeah. This is true. I haven't thought about that a day in my 40 plus years in this planet. So, I would like to meet a nudist. That would be kind of fun just to chat with him. Never, never really thought about their, you know, cooking or welding or whatever got it. - There's one in Annapolis. There's a nudist community in Annapolis. - Oh, wow. Okay, yeah. - Oh. - So Matt, it's closer than you think. - Yeah. - I'm not a nudist. I'm like an ever nude, basically, like-- - Yeah. I am also an ever nude. - I'm gonna be close all the time. Yeah. - I wear long pants and long sleeves all year round. So, I'm also on that tip. Where the fuck do we go now? - I had a question. I mean-- - Hit it. - Yeah, let's hear it. - So, I don't know that there's an elegant way to break into this, but like the first piece of tailoring that you thought like, this is correct. Like, I have finally done this correctly. - Mm, mm. I mean, I would say it's like an ongoing thing, I feel like, you know, honestly speaking. Like, I always, I love my tailor. - That's what you were happy with. - Oh, happy with it. I mean, you know, when I put on like a vintage suit for the first time, there's this one, this is like, you know, I went to the store called Papermoon Vintage. They still exist. Shout out Nicole. I went to the physical location back on in Los Felis a long time ago. And I remember when I went in there, they had a brown like three-piece suit. And I didn't need to tailor it. I didn't buy it 'cause it was just, you know, I was, I could not afford it. But I put it on and it was like, everything was so good, sleeves are perfect, shoulders are perfect. It was like a 40 suit. So not like my, not like a super 30s thing, but like, you know, kind of like a normal, pretty close to normal suit that was right before the bold era where things started to get really low buttoning and stuff like that. But it was, it was like spot on. And I was like, holy shit, this is so good, you know? And I, like that's, I mean, I'm sure I had tried on some stuff before that. Like, you know, I tried on pants, tried on jackets, but I was like one of the first things I tried on, like a full suit. There might have actually been a time before that where there was a thing called the set shop, which is like one of the vintage guys in LA, he had like a, basically like a warehouse in downtown where, 'cause he would like this, he was like a set or production designer or something like that. And, but he was a vintage enthusiast. And so like once a year he would bring everyone together to do kind of like, what Alfargos is, is kind of people selling different stuff. And I remember also going there very early on when I had like no idea what vintage was. And I just kind of like, I had bought a couple of vintage ties. And so like the guy selling me the ties was like, hey, you should go to this thing. So I went there and I also tried on a suit there. That one was double rested. And that was like, oh man, my God, that was so good. Also didn't buy it because it was very expensive back then. I'm sure it would have been over a thousand dollars today 'cause it was like a three piece belt back, but back then it was like maybe five or 600 bucks, but to like an 18 year old that's still impossible money. - It might as well be, it might as well be thousand dollars. - Right, right. - Yeah. - What time period would this have been? - In my life? - Like what year was this? - Yeah, this is maybe like 2012, 2013. It might be getting a little bit late. So for some added context here, I graduated high school 2012. And then I got into college 2013. That's when I had free dress for the first time in my life 'cause my K through 12, I had a uniform. So in my free time, I would wear like, you know, what kids wore in 2008, which was like a dumb graphic t-shirt with like plaid shorts and flip-flops. So going to college, you know. Yeah, like the original like "Malady" kind of a thing, right? Like that's what you would like, that's what like I wore. I wasn't cool enough to wear like, you know, that's when like skating was kind of really big for like teenagers, I know like the 90s already existed but like in the 2000s, it was more mainstream and people were wearing like vans and like hot topic. It was like, it was all mollified, right? But of course, I didn't really know that. I also being an Asian kid, parents didn't want to take me to places if they didn't have to. So like I just, again, I wore like a baggy shorts, flip-flops and a baggy shirt and that's what it was. But of course going to college, then my parents were like, hey, you gotta dress, you gotta have like some kind of intentionality. And I'm like, well, you guys didn't teach me that. So I have like no idea, but eventually, yeah, I got into vintage because like, yeah, I got like, you know, button-up shirts from Abercrombie. I started wearing like chinos with like, Aldo leather shoes and like, okay, like. - Of course, the scourge of the moll. - Yeah, you know, like kind of not like hashtag men's, but definitely like Tumblr, hipster, or like, you know, like what like a nice person wore like like Ted Mosby, right? Like a plaid shirt untucked with jeans and like a leather shoe or something like that. And then immediately like shortly after that, you know, 2012, I think I started college and then all of a sudden the gassy movie came out, then Gangster Squad came out. Dapper Day started being a thing at Disneyland. I got into more of like, I started to see more than just like fandom stuff on Tumblr. I started to see like fashion on Tumblr, you know? And then I was like, the rise of the influencer at that time and like on the beginnings of it. And so like all that together, I was like, oh man, this is kind of crazy. And so, you know, everything since then has been so exponential, but even like back then it was like, you know, okay, I'm wearing untucked shirt and jeans. Boom, I got the H&M window pane suit. Okay, then I found vintage ties, then I went and then I saved up and I bought like a vintage, you know, navy suit or whatever. And then started getting custom shirts because of the shirts, you know, you can't, you can't wear an H&M tiny collar shirt with a 30 suit. It just doesn't look right in proportions. And so like, yeah, so a lot of my money, you know, went to that. I did not go in any concerts or anything cool in college because all my money went to close. - Oh, hell yes. Wait, we got a backup for a second. - Yeah, yeah. - For a day? - Yeah, Dafforday, I love it. Yeah, no, Dafforday is a really great thing. Shout out Justin Jorgensen. He's like an artist or designer or something like that. But anyway, he started this event on, that was kind of about Disneyland. He was like looking at inspiration, you know, he's an artist and he would look at old concept art of Disneyland where people were drawn going to Disneyland wearing like sport coats and ties. There's some illustrations of like teenagers. There's like, you know, 1950s, like college nights or grad nights where people would wear, you know, like dinner jackets to Disneyland. And of course, back then Disneyland was like a food cart and a carousel, you know, like it was, it was like a regular thing, but people would dress up and he's, Justin was like, oh, like, why don't we just, why don't we do that, you know? And this was also the time where like, like Disney had a bunch of unofficial meetups. Like these are not official Disney things. These are like community things where people would just go straight to Disneyland. Like, you know, they would spread the word out through Tumblr or, you know, maybe Instagram at that time, but like there were furry days, there were gay days, there were, there was pirate days. And again, all unofficial Disney, I think at the time did not like it because like they just didn't expect it. They were like, who do all these people? And Disney doesn't like people like, you know, they're not a convention center. There's, you know, so it's like, that day became a thing and it like blew up. Like again, go coinciding with hashtag men's wear, with mad men, with Gatsby, with every, it was like the perfect time for it. And so I heard about it by seeing like photos of people blogged on, on Tumblr and people, but also this is a side note too. This is also the rise of a thing called Disney bounding, which is, which is, I know a lot of people don't like it, but for those of you who don't know, it was, it's a, it's a term for dressing up like a Disney character, could be animated, could be live action, but using regular clothing. So for example, Mickey Mouse, you know, where you would wear like a black shirt, could be buttoned up, could be T-shirt with red pants, red shorts, whatever, you know. And it was a way for people to like cosplay at Disneyland, again, turning it into kind of a convention, but without being in trouble for wearing a costume, because you cannot wear costumes in Disneyland. So it was like, and of course that got caught up by like fashion bloggers, it was a Disney bound. Someone had started that and this girl looked into it and became that. She was like a, I think like an ex-punk or whatever. And there's a lot of punks who go to the side because, like if you look up Disney gangs, like there were, there were like local wholesome gang, like like a reformed gang members, like biker gangs, who would go to Disneyland and they would have like patches on their like denim, denim like cut off vests. And it'd be like, like Mickey's crew or like Donald's, Donald's dude. It was, and it was so funny. - That is the most wholesome, wholesome. - What the fuck? Why can't you wear a costume? I mean, I kind of understand what way. - What way? - Disneyland is all about costumes. - Well, it's because I think, I think the reason about they said was they don't want to confuse park goers. And so one, 'cause Disneyland has a mix of obviously, like I think Mickey Mouse is different. But like if you dressed up as a Latin, but the real Latin's walking around, there is a potential that a kid could get confused or that guy could, you know, take advantage of looking like Latin. - It's a Latin confusion. - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah, it's kind of a Times Square Elmo situation. - Exactly. That's exactly. - Yeah, like, whatever, I didn't go to Times Square often, but I always, always wondered, like. - Oh, no, it's not for Elmo. - Yeah, well, now it's just like as a parent, how do you trust this random person on the street dressed up as a character? - Yeah, the whole concept is crazy, right? - It's like, absolutely. - You don't like the faceless person. - Yeah. - It's so weird, even here, right? Harwood is all about it. - Same thing. There was just a bunch of, like, I remember like, I recently, this is a rant. I don't do influencer events like ever, but I went to one because they gave me a free ticket to watch the, watch Pulp Fiction at the TCL Chinese Theater. - Oh, yeah, I saw that. I saw that. - I was like, that's fucking me. - The randomest thing. But I was like, I had to walk down Hollywood Boulevard to get there, and I'm like, I'm wearing a fucking tuxie. I feel weird, you know? And there's people, like, hustling. I'm like, you know, keeping my hands to myself. And there's like Iron Man just walking around. I'm like, who's walking around here? He was like, I'm gonna come here and get a photo with Iron, like a knockoff Iron Man. - Yeah, who's doing that? I don't understand this. I don't, I don't get it. - Oh. - It's weird. But yeah. - Fucking bootleg characters. - Exactly, exactly. But that's why, yeah, that's why Disney doesn't want that. And I think also people, and people kind of forget this too, like when you walk down Main Street in Disneyland or on Buena Vista Street in California Adventure, people are dressed like the 30s and 40s or like the 19 teens to 20s. 'Cause like, that's like the shop owners, looks like that they have like, you know, they have like the Dapper Dan performers who do acapella. There's like the cab drivers that they can take you on a little tram ride. So there is a potential for also like getting confused with like a regular Disney staff person. - Right, right, yeah. - Is there a tie in with Roger Rabbit? - I feel, that makes sense, right? That's kind of prolific. - Yeah, I mean, that ride is still popular, I think. You know, it's like in such a random spot. I mean, it's a pretty, I mean, it's a kid's movie, but it's also kind of an adult Disney crew. - Oh, it's absolutely an adult movie. Yeah. - I'm not mad, I'm strong that way. - Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah, is like, they, there were so many weird, like legal requirements for that movie, like time and stuff, what up. - Yeah, that's right. They couldn't show Donald Duck and Daffy being better than each other while playing the piano. They had to be equal amounts of prolificness. And that's why they both get taken at the end because they're, you know, they're equal. Yeah, I mean, you can do that. - Yeah. - Just unbelievable. - The 80s and 90s as far as pop culture is concerned was so unhinged and so, so ridiculous. And like, I don't think that anyone that didn't mean it through that experience understands. Like, there's so much in the window, so many like adult themes in, in quote unquote, children's shit. Just wild. - Oh yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of, yeah, it's well to think what they got away with, you know? - Oh, totally, totally. - I mean, apparently according to that Nickelodeon documentary thing, you know, I guess we're finally realizing just how weird that shit was, you know? - Oh yeah, and some of it like. - It's not good. Yeah, it's not good. - But that's all. - So Ethan, you're very much into vintage. - Yes. - As we have uncovered, and as you have talked about at length, what's the kind of like vintage to modern ratio in your wardrobe? - Mm, that's a good question. I feel like, you know, people love asking me that and I feel like it changes. I think it gets a little bit more modern each time just because I don't really wear vintage suits as much just because I want things the way that I want them to be. And so like, one of my recent purchases, and I feel bad for even saying this is because like, I got this like Calvin Klein, like '90s Calvin Klein suit. And I love the way the jacket is, but the pants are weirdly tapered and the drape is really good on it. And I've worn it a couple of times, but I'm like, you know what? I don't like how tapered these pants are, you know? And they're plenty of high-waisted. I'm sure it would have been fine for me like a couple of years ago, but like for me, I'm like, I want every pant to be like 10 inches wide, you know? And so, and of course I could find stuff like that for vintage, but then sometimes like the jacket is, you know, it's like, like I like 50s pants, but I don't like 50s jackets, which have like, you know, very slimmer lapel, square quarters, kind of lower buttoning point. Like I'm not a fan of how that looks. And so, and then there's also a thing of like fabric where I'm still even, even 1930s and 40s, like just regular wool, like not even like flannel. Like that can still be very, very heavy, if not itchy to wear. And so a lot of my suits themselves have been custom, so those are all kind of new now. But some of my sport codes, I still thrift, a lot of my pants are second hand, maybe not like vintage vintage, although I have been getting kind of lucky lately with like Hollywood waist trousers for less than $200. So like that's even kind of a win, you know? But a lot of my shirts are vintage or second hand. I've been wearing a lot of, you know, on the theme of no secrets and open source, I've been wearing Calvin Klein, like 90s or early 2000s shirts that have a little bit of a longer collar. They're softer. If you can find them in a fit that's not slim and you get them, you know, without the non-iron, they're pretty good. I mean, obviously they're not gonna look like exactly like a 30s shirt, but they look pretty good enough to me and they're long enough to put a collar bar there. So I've been wearing that a lot. I've been finding them on eBay or thrifting those ones. All of my OCBDs are like, you know, vintage or second hand brooks. And of course, all my camp collar shirts are 40s or 50s and some 60s rayon shirts. And so those are all there. My outer wear is all vintage or second hand too. You know, I've got like a 40s overcoat, you know, like a 70s or 80s duffel coat. Got my 40s, 50s leather jackets. Obviously all my mill syrup stuff is vintage. - Yeah. - And so yeah, I think it really depends on what, like what category we're looking at, but it is like, not like, people assume I wear a lot of vintage suits and that's not true because they're all made by either Helmadden or I tell you a fugue, shout them out. But then everything else, obviously all my ties are vintage. Like those are, you know, outside of like, you know, like three or four Drake's ties that I got from the sample sale or from a homie. Like everything else is like true 30s to like 60s vintage. But yeah, it's, you know, it's never really about the fact that they are vintage. It's like, it's just, they just have the details that I like. They just happen to be from an old era. If they, if everything today, if the mall had clothing that was made like this, I would have, I would have, I would have kept shopping at the mall, but I can't, you know, so what you gonna do? - Search. - That's right. - I guess, right? - Like you'd start searching. - Yeah, I was gonna ask about the vintage scene in LA. I mean, it is sort of off-discussed, but I was just curious. - Yeah. - I guess you can kind of, you can compare it to the New York thing, but just your assessment of the vintage scene, I guess. - Yeah, no, I mean, it's an interesting thing 'cause you know, there's like the swing dancing aspect of it. I never swing danced, but of course my circles crossed with theirs because they're the people who are the tailoring the most here. But obviously when people think of the LA vintage scene, they think of like the traits of like inspiration, vintage rendezvous, which are all of like these like, like vintage markets that, you know, are mainly workwear, milserp, casual wear, et cetera. And that's kind of like the main part here in LA. I mean, most vintage stores here have that kind of tone to them, obviously, 'cause a lot of them are ex-punks, ex-skaters, or are still punks and skaters. And so like there's this kind of like this kind of like, you know, slang and vintage kind of vibe to that. And you know, I have, like I'm friends with some of them. I've only just seen some of them. I follow some of them on TikTok. But yeah, I mean, that's kind of like what it is. Like, you know, and the more you go, the more you buy or the more you'll, you know, interact with these people at like the flea markets or whatever, the more you'll, you'll see the same characters over and over, you know, and you know, with a lot of kids now trying to get into it, like it's kind of cool to see. But you know, it is still kind of like a business and it's still very much like, not like a club, but it's very like, you know, it's, and I don't wanna use the word incestuous, but it's kind of like, you know, they all know each other and they all kind of sell to each other. And you know, it's kind of wholesome in that way of like, oh yeah, that like type one that used to be mine and now this guy has it and now he's selling it to this person. So you hear all these stories, but they're all, you know, they're all very cool, they're all very nice. But yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of great to see here, even if I'm not really a part of it as much anymore. I don't think I'm in like any like style scenes, specifically anymore, just 'cause I feel like I've gotten a little bit older and I finally have friends for the first time in my life and God, you know, so yeah, you know, but it's great. You know, I mean, I have some vintage friends, it's great to see them at the flea markets. - How are you? So when we were leading up the interview with you, Connor and I were talking about cinematic dressing and how that was. - Oh yeah. - Like you're, if you Google that, I think Connor, you can confirm, but like, you're the first thing that comes up in that. So. - Did you have your idea? - Yeah, it seems like your idea and can you tell us a little bit about that? - Yeah, absolutely, I mean, I think I might have to credit Spencer on that specific terminology, 'cause we were trying to come up with like a nice name for what is essentially like costuming, but also kind of, I mean, I wanted to say cosplay, but he was like, absolutely not. - Yeah, there's connotations to that word. - Yeah, I mean, yeah. And you're kind of hinting it with Disney bounding, right? But like, yeah, no, but it's basically like kind of approaching, approaching dressing through a like a film costumer mindset. So like, you know, you're dressing cinematically. It doesn't mean like you're dressing in a way that is photographed or whatever, but it's very intentional. There is a narrative through what you are dressing for, what vibe all of these pieces kind of create and you know, the more, the more I think about this stuff, the more I read about other things, the more you realize that every piece of clothing is coded in some way or has some kind of connotation. And that's kind of like, I mean, I didn't study film costuming, but like, to me, that's like what a film costumer would think. Like everything is so intentional. Everything can be indicative of a profession, a vibe, a background, et cetera. And you know, there's so many great blogs, especially Banff Style.com, which goes into all of these ideas. And it's like, you know, why, like, you know, I realize I've always kind of dressed in that way. And personally for me, as someone like someone who like didn't have a lot of friends or social group, it was kind of a way for me to kind of show my interests through my clothing. And that's something that has probably come so natural to other people who dress for their subculture because they're in it, right? Like when you're in a band, or you know, you're into skating, whatever, there is a uniform. But for me it's like, okay, like, well, how do you do that if you want to dress like you like movies? You know, like I don't really know. But like you look at like what a film critic wears, sometimes they wear sport codes and you think of like what hipsters wear. There's like a lot of different things you could do with it. And so, you know, like that was such a like, that was such a big thing for me. It's something that I guess me and Spencer, and I'm sure everyone has kind of done. And I'm like, well, we should like just kind of like canonize it, at least for us. That way if someone asks us, we just send them that podcast or send them the article, like, hey, this is it. Like that's, you know, get into that. But that's kind of like what it is. And I'm sure it does, it has my connotations to cosplaying, you know, 'cause it's like, and Disney bounding, 'cause one of the fun games I would do when I would go to Disneyland and back again, back to this little side note, I used to have a pass because before Disneyland was way more accessible to people who lived in Southern California. If you had a zip code, you could go there, like the pass to go like any day was really cheap. And that's why you have like the wholesome gangs in the Disney bounding and all these convention stuff, 'cause local people would just go all the time. It's only recently that they've just like, you know, jacked the price up to make it of such a big money maker. But anyway, one of the things I would do is, you know, you go to Disneyland after college, you know, for like an afternoon, 'cause it was free, 'cause you have a pass. And, you know, you get your little churro, you know, your little Mickey Mouse churro or whatever. And you'll see a kid, you know, whatever, walking around in like a, like a purple t-shirt and green shorts, you know, like, is this kid dressing up like Ariel, or are they just happening to wear these things together? And it's hard not to, you're in Disneyland, it's hard not to think that, right? Or someone wearing like yellow pants and a red t-shirt, is that Winnie the Pooh? Like, and so like to me, like that's like, you know, so like nowadays, you know, you see someone wearing like a bucket hat and then, and like a corduroy suit, like are they trying to be Ivy, like, or are they just, you know, and it's like, well, even if they're not intentionally doing that, it still looks like an Ivy League professor guy or whatever. And so that's kind of another way of like going about this where like, even like, you know, when you wear these things that might seem disparate or seem agnostic, the truth is that they're not. And so cinematic dressing is just about embracing that idea and leveraging it to make an outfit that just kind of just says something 'cause it's always gonna say something. You know, I personally don't believe that there's anything that is just truly agnostic unless you wear a t-shirt that says where you work at, you know, like that's, that might be, I mean, that's still saying something, but that might be like the most simplest way of doing it. You know, like I work, you know, tech guys, I work at Google, I work at SpaceX or whatever. Okay, that is telling you. But then, you know, you've got, you know, you've got Connor here where like, you know, like the, like the boutique print with like a khaki jacket and the cap, what is that all saying here? You know, the jacket's unstructured. It's like a tropical vibe to this, right? You know, there's a, there's a cap here, like, is it the weather? - It is, but the sun, yeah. So there's a lot that goes into this and I think that's really fascinating. It's like, why, and why not just take advantage of it, you know? It's fun, it's supposed to be fun. - Well, that's one of the main, I don't know, that's like one of the strengths of clothing is that it speaks for itself. - Absolutely. - It's a, it is an amazing way to communicate. And it's like sort of up to you, like how much you, 'cause I definitely get away with, or maybe I get away with, I think I get away with stuff more just like the school teacher thing. It's like, you can look a certain way. - Yeah, it's not like people don't look at me, like I'm totally crazy if I'm wearing a bow tie. - Yeah, it is funny how that kind of happens. I mean, it's, I just read this book about pretentiousness and people always, well, the book kind of argues that like the accusation of being pretentious is kind of just accusing them for, you know, trying to rise above or leave an unexpected appearance or expected social group or whatever. And there are some, there are some professions like being a school teacher, professor or whatever where like certain modes of dress aren't pretentious because like it just seems correct for what that is. But like if you were, like there's a lot of vintage guys who were like, you know, blue collar workers who were guys who were like auto mechanics or whatever, but they loved swing dancing. And so like when they get off work, you know, they would change into their suits and go to the local dance hall and start playing. Or start, start, start swinging dancing and wearing their, you know, belt back suits or whatever. I always thought that was really cool. Like, you know, and I know that they would always tell me that they would get, you know, if someone found out like, oh, why did you do that? I'm like, well, like who says that a, that like guy who works with his hands can't wear a suit, you know, or vice, or vice versa, I guess, you know? So, yeah. - Yeah, there, there've been so many like difference parts of that over the years. Like I have since I was like teenager, loved traditional skinhead culture. And that was basically the same thing. Like dock workers, you know, would put on the suit and go dance to like, you know, 60s and 70s, like rock and roll and like, wrecking and things like this. And it's like, yo, yeah, they just like, these people wear what they wear because of their day job, but like, they might wear something different on a Saturday night because that's, that like feels right. - Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's just about, I don't know about code switching, but it's more like dressing for the occasion, I guess, you know. And some places there that you have to wear what you have to wear to work, I totally get that. I think, I think what is more crazy now is, you know, the, or maybe what has contributed to all of these conversations about authenticity and pretentiousness or whatever is that you can wear whatever you want to work. And so now people are confused about like, not knowing what you are when they see you, right? Like that's just, and I think that, you know, it's supposed to have been something that's super positive, but I think nowadays it makes it kind of like another, a very untold game of one-upsmanship of like, I'm more authentic than you 'cause I play into whatever society expects or whatever is the accepted, socially accepted idea of what this person should wear, but it should be a kind of a fun thing of like being like, yeah, like this guy wearing a tuxedo is a metalhead in his free time or whatever. Like I think that that's really awesome. Like it's okay that people can contain multitudes, you know? - Oh, it's kind of the whole point. - It's kind of the whole point. - Yeah, this is the whole point, yeah, right. - Yeah, absolutely, but yeah, no, it's interesting to see how we've kind of been forced to go to do that with like the demise of like dress codes or, you know, people working from home and also just like, how subcultures might no longer have a strict appearance nowadays, you know? - Yeah. - Who knows? - Which personally I think that's a good thing. - Yeah, yeah. - Like none of us are, you know, none of us are monoliths. No one in any particular interest is a monolith. Like why the fuck should there be, you know, rules around this stuff? - Well, if I had to wear a tie, I would not wear a tie. - Yeah, I, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, if I was required to wear a tie for work, I would absolutely not be caught wearing a tie, right? But it's because it's like, who the fuck does that, you know? - Yeah, no, absolutely. I can't, I always wonder-- - You're not confusing five-year-olds. - Yeah, that'll be, that's really funny. No, it's like, I'd always wonder what would have happened if I had like an actual corporate job or whatever. Like I wonder how that would have changed my whole thing, but I've never had like an overly corporate, strict thing. And so I've always had this freedom to kind of wear whatever I want within reason. - You'd never have like a Taco Bell, like a Coles, like a-- - No, I-- - No, like, I'm not attaching anything to this, I'm just saying, like you never had to wear a polyester polo, which like just because-- - No, I mean, yeah, I never really-- I think it's 'cause I didn't, I didn't drive and I would always like hang out with my grandparents. And so like, I mean, it's very, it's very, I was very blessed to like not have had a teenager job. And then in college, I, I just, yeah, I got like, I see like office work, I got like a campus desk job at like a, you know, like a teacher's assistant, kind of a thing, I was like a tutor. And so, and like even then, like you just kind of wear what students wear, I wasn't even fully into fashion at that point. And then, yeah, I mean, I worked at Banana Republic and the Port of Banana Republic, you don't, there is no uniform, they don't even require you to wear, at least at the time, you didn't have to wear the clothes from the brand. Although I did get talking to you that I was a little bit too dressed up, you know, like I-- (laughing) They encouraged me to make more modern choices, you know, like, oh, why don't you wear a jean with your jacket instead of like, you know, pleated trousers or whatever? But they didn't really enforce it, it was totally fine. And I eventually became like the suit guy, obviously over there, you know? And so, yeah, yeah. But I've never had to like, do like full on uniform, you know, like work uniform. - You lucky duck. - Yeah. - Hey, do you like clothing that's well made? Listen to us, we assume you do. Our long time comrade, Ava Kuehl, is the founder and created behind a gnarly brand called Evelyn. She offers thoughtfully designed and graphic garments made right here in the USA. At a non bougie price. Evelyn let's say fools, like the Doyle work jacket. The more directional Kanagata and the infamous Rivicino have been captivating her clientele for more than a decade. The commitment to offering unique, interesting fabrics and staunchly consistent fit is unrivaled. And casual outerwear, tomato order, RTC, Taylor clothing. Evelyn that offers garment for any occasion. Visit epilnetfriend.com and enter the code "Dudcast 10" for 10% off your first order. - So we're, we have talked endlessly about like, cauterized connection and where this show started. But I was wanting to ask what the origin story for style and direction was. - Ooh, yeah. That's really, oh man, it's really funny because obviously the blog, a little bit of rest, which was not, that's not what it was called back then. It was called streetxsprezza.wordpress.com because I was a cheap person who didn't want to pay until I had to. But yeah, I, the blog obviously predated all of this. I was like my way of doing something. And I'd always like entertained the idea of like Spencer contributing a little bit. But you know, we just never really had the idea and eventually like the blog really just became like me as like my, it's like my zine of like me writing my ideas out there that I was like, you know, maybe it's fine if he doesn't do it because that way like the blog is completely my point of view. But I still want Spencer to do something, you know, and we always talk about it. And we were like, you know what? Why don't we do a podcast? And it wasn't because every guy had a podcast back then. Like this was, I guess maybe like 25th, 2016, 2017. I guess, you know, the idea of like influencers having podcasts wasn't as big back then. It was still very like it was post like radio, but like not, you know, it wasn't super big. Like, you know, it was still true crime was still a thing. But anyway, like we both love this podcast called Comedy Bang Bang, which is by Scott Ockerman. And so it's basically a fake talk show where Scott, the host will talk to a character played by a comedian. And it's just really, really funny. It's, you know, it's full of like fictional versions of like Andrew Lloyd Webber. You could also be like, I'm talking to a pretzel specialist, a specialist, you know, and a guy like that could be like a very thinly veiled improv character. And then they fleshed it out and then they have a whole more and then the guy comes back and the future. It's crazy. It's a really funny episode. I was like, you know what? I don't want to do that. And at the same time, I think Handcut Radio was like announced. I don't know if Handcut Radio had come out yet. I think Blamo had kind of done some stuff. And so I was like, well, they're probably going to get all the guests are going to do all the interviews to phone. We just talk about what we like, what we do. And we just started recording. We just were like, OK, we'll do this. We ended up buying some microphone or at least we we bought. He had a headset. I had a I bought a microphone and we just started, you know, making pod making podcasts. It wasn't very regular until I think shortly before the pandemic where we kind of decided to do one every two weeks. And yeah, it's just a way for us to talk about stuff that because I know Spencer again has a lot of opinions about the same things that I do. But of course, I write the blog. So we would always kind of do a two for which is what we do now where we have a topic. We do the big discussion on the podcast. And then I have like my follow up or my version of it on my blog, which says a bit more about, excuse me, my personal point of view and stuff I maybe didn't get to do on to the podcast. And that's kind of how it was. Like, you know, I always like the idea of doing something with friends, even the blog got started because I wanted to make a fashion blog with my friend. And I was going to be the Spatatura part of it. The mentor part of it. And then my other friend Tim was going to be the streetware because he was like, you know, he was like, not really a sneaker head, but he was kind of like in the streetware and he never wrote anything. And so that's why I eventually the blog just became more and more about me. But even back then, I was like, oh, I mean, it'd be really cool to do a thing to do a thing with friends. And so the podcast was just kind of like that outlet. And I'm very glad we got to bring MJ on because I value his thing and, you know, he also lives close. And he experiences all the stuff with us. And he can be like the new eye to everything that we're doing because it means Spencer at this point, I've been doing it for nine a decade, you know? So it's like, you know, so having MJ on there who is relatively new is like been really great. And, you know, these are two of my best friends in the world. So it's like, yeah, why, why not, why not do that? And it's just, it's just surprising. I always feel like I just started it, but we're, you know, like a couple hundred, not a couple hundred, but we're like a hundred episodes in and it's been like, yeah, it's been like five years, you know? So yeah, it's, it's been a fun, it's been a fun thing, you know? I typically like the blog, I, I did, we did it because we wanted to do it, you know, and so far, fingers crossed, haven't run out of steam so far, so far. Yeah, I was going to ask way up in the list of questions like, yeah, how you have so much energy. This isn't a, like, are you taking stimulants question? But it's like, how do you have so much energy? You exercise too. I try music and you're exercising. That's crazy. You know, it's just, I'm sure there's, there's some anxiety thing behind here somewhere. But, yeah, I don't know. You're making it up for lost time. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you know, like, you know, like, you know, Hamilton, he writes like he's running out of time. Like, that's kind of like how I feel. Like, I, I know we recently had a, had a party, this, this party for a friend and we had to talk about like our fears or whatever. And, you know, it's like, it's, it's like a fear of dying is, it's something that we all have, but specifically, it's because I don't want to run out of time. And it's not that I, I know a lot of people like, oh, they have a bucket list because they're not going to get to it. My thing is, I'm actively doing things and I don't ever want to stop doing these things. And so like, that's why it's like, if I don't do it, I'm, I'm going to miss out on it. And so I just try and do everything as much as possible. And, and, and also so far, the ideas haven't stopped coming. There's always something that I at least want to respond to, something that I find inspiring, you know, something I haven't talked about. And even with like music where it's like, there's just these melodies in my head that I, that, I mean, yeah, they're in my head, but like, they're not done because they need to be written out and orchestra, and not even just written out, they need to be orchestrated. And they need to be exactly the way I think of in my head. And so it's like, I gotta, I gotta do that. I gotta find time to do that. You know, but of course, there's a bunch of books I have to read. So like, it just, the list doesn't stop. Yeah, the list doesn't stop. I can't, I can't stop it. You know, it's. And here's the thing, I don't take naps. So like, that's, that's why. No. And I need to do why. And I still don't get nearly have as much shit done as you. And I get a lot of stuff done. Yeah, I'm, I'm like addicted to getting stuff done. And the good thing is like, are you like a GCD person? Are you like a life hacker? Like they won't know. I mean, I, I must, yeah, I must have some kind of like, like, not a life hacker, but I try, I try and be efficient. If that makes sense. Like I don't like doing two things. I don't like going back and forth, you know? So it's like, if I'm going to, if I'm going to go pick up dry cleaning, I'm going to go to the gym at the same time. Cause I don't want to go back and forth. And so it's, I try and find a ways to kind of like just get everything. You make a circuit. Yeah. No, and that's when it works, you know, and you have like five different errands stops and you do them all and nothing gets fucked up all the time. Then you're like, yeah, which is why when it doesn't work, I am the most miserable person in the world. Yeah, you know, right. You know, I mean, like, I get people have different stuff. Like, I, you know, like I'll go to my tailor. My tailor is a very old man. He's like the best, but you know, some days he's old, some days he'll just walk home. And he won't, you know, I should, you know, call ahead of time. But like usually he's there, but I'll go there and be like, Oh, left home at like three o'clock and I'm like, fuck, I just drove all the way over here. And it's like, it's fine. I live close if I can go tomorrow, but that's like another errand circuit. I'll have to try and figure out tomorrow. So, you know, that's so funny. I've never met anybody who has that. Yeah, I do like if I'm, if I'm like cooking food, and I know, like, nothing's going to burn down, I'll wash dishes while my food's cooking. Like it's like, I might as, I might as well just do it. I just, it's not about like, I, I don't like being idle. And so it's, and it's not to fill up time. It's just that there's always something to do. Like, I, like, you know, it's like, I don't know, I don't know. Like if I'm going to be at the gym, I'm going to, you know, text my girlfriend about what, um, what plans we have, you know, there's always something that you can do at the same time, you know? And so you might as well just take those opportunities. Yeah, that's, that was a more succinct answer than I thought I would get. But I'm slightly relieved and then also horrified because I'm already doing the thing and it's not enough. I mean, hey, eventually we'll see what happens if I just combust. You know, we'll see what happens, you know, knock on wood. Yeah, right. Um, well, we've adored having you on the program. Uh, those, all the questions, I thought you had like a bunch more. I have time if you want. We can, uh, where's Matt? Oh, is Matt, uh, I don't know what happened. Um, but it is late here. Oh, that's true. I'm here. I'm here. I don't know what happened at that. That's okay. I mean, if you're comfortable wrapping up, we do have more stuff to talk about. I mean, um, let's, yeah, we can, we've been doing something where we have, uh, you know, past guests on. So we'll just, we'll plan to, you know, plan part two for, uh, yeah, let's do it sometime in the near future. And you got to get to trivia, right? Yeah, it's still, you know, it's only 619. It's already set like 730. So there's, there was still some time. Got you. I, yeah, I don't have to, you know, I'm going to win anyway. You know what I'm saying? So it'll be okay. Wait, what's, what's your, uh, what is your, like, best trivia category? Just out of curiosity. I mean, it's, you know, like, like any menswear or any person out there. It's usually some kind of like history pop culturey thing. Right. I can tell you my weakest one is a music. Absolutely. Really? That, yeah, I mean, that's shocking to it. It sounds shocking, but let me explain to you why here. Um, and I'm about to out myself in front of a bunch of all the listeners, because I'm like the worst person. But for me, you know, again, as someone who is, this will make sense. I like looking at my own and spoke, right? For clothing and I, you know, I get, I get inspired by myself a lot. And so the same thing with music is I listen to like the same music all the time. And so I don't know actually a lot of music. And the second part of that is also as someone who likes to write music. Um, lyrics or say vocals are kind of like an instrument to me. So I don't even, I don't even hear like words. I just like, I just hear the music. And so like, so if someone were to like show me lyrics or like, oh, that's this song by Ariana Grande, I'm like, okay, I can tell it's Ariana Grande. I have no idea what song it is because I don't listen to the lyrics and I don't. And, you know, that's the whole thing. You have to always guess at trivia, the song title and the artist. And so, you know, like it can be kind of tough when like, yes, it's, of course, it's Destiny's Child, but which one? I don't know. Like I just, I can't like, you know, or, or oh, it's, you know, I forgot. Like, we did something, oh, rock me like a hurricane. And, uh, I think we put deaf leopard, but I think it's scorpion. Yeah. And so, but I'm like, yeah, you could have put a gun to my head. I would not have been able to tell you what that was. Yeah. Oh, again, that's why my friends are there. My friends are there to answer anything I can't answer. This is what trivia is, you know, it's, it's a collective effort. To, and all of you hopefully have a different, um, category that's your knowledge base. Absolutely. I mean, I love all my friends are incredibly smart and cultured people in their own right, but also just in general. And I, I mean, like, that's the reason why we do so well. Like it's not, it's not me. It's like they, they bring some random stuff to this. You know, like, I mean, someone will watch. They definitely watch more sports than I do. Like I don't watch any sports, you know? But yeah, it's sports ball, you know, but I'm like, if I don't even know what I answer. Like I just, I feel like what I answer, we all know, I just happen to have the most thunder behind it. And so I'm like, they'll just be like, all right, let's go with it. I'm like, yeah, exactly. And then we do it. And so that's how it's done. Oh, yes. Oh, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. And that's how it's done. And that's how it's done. Hopefully, uh, hopefully you guys went tonight. Um, Eden, dude, thank you so much. We'll, we'll definitely have you back on to, uh, to expand on our previous conversation. Um, but we want to give you a chance to shout out whatever you want to. So yeah, I got it. Yeah. Um, so if anyone who's listening to this, who doesn't know me, uh, please follow me at Ethan M Wong on Instagram. Uh, I have a blog called a little bit of rest dot com. I do a podcast with my two best friends, Spencer and MJ. It's called style and direction. Um, and, uh, also, okay, here's a random shout out, uh, that I, that I feel like will, uh, explain more about me. There is a catalog of all the Star Wars themes by, by, uh, Frank Lemon or Lehman, it's L E H M A N. He's like a music scholar. And if you, if you read his articles on anything about Star Wars or even he has a really good one about, um, the music of Indiana Jones, it's called, like, why action music should have action in it. Um, I think that that is kind of, if you read that with an open mind, you can kind of see how I approach things where, um, because basically he's like, you know, when John Williams, when the boulder is rolling, he have like frenetic Trump, it's playing staccato. And it's like mimicking this, this idea that the, that the bowl is coming after you. And it, you know, it's expressed musically instead of just generic action music. And so it's like that idea of using things to express vibes, emotions, um, characters, places is so important. And, um, that's, you know, and tied to cinematic dressing. It's tied to me as a composer. Um, and yeah, shout out Frank Lehman for being a really great guy. I mean, being, being that articulate about John Williams. So look him up if you guys want really cool. Very quick. I was forbidden from doing this introduction, but Ethan, what do you call? A potato that has gone to the dark side. Uh, Darth Tater. Thank you. Thank God. Oh, fuck. I should have known that he would know it. You know it. This is why I said, like, and yet I haven't thought of Ethan men's wear long. I don't know. Yeah, that's crazy. I can't believe that. I mean, that's like, that's like, that's like, it's got to go on your business card. I know the M stands for men's wear. Like, oh my God. That's crazy. That's so much fun. Oh, holy shit. Holy shit. Yeah. Well, thank you guys for having me. This was so much fun. Hell, yeah. Yeah. And we will definitely have you back on, uh, this has been, this has been fantastic. And I love it. Yeah. Open source. He asked me whatever you want. I will answer anything with a number of people. A number of people who are willing to come on our show is ever decreasing. So, uh, you're like kind of a guaranteed 80% yes, maybe. So. Nice. Well, this is great. This was, this was fantastic. Um, everyone listening, you should check out sound direction. Uh, Ethan is, as we said, the baby blazer. Of creating content. So, um, anyway, you can't stop me. You know, right? Fucking fucking can't stop this man. Um, anyway, once again, Ethan, thank you. Um, if you like what you heard, please listen, rate, subscribe on your platform of choice. Um, don't know what that does, but hey, please do. Um, no one has any, no one has any idea. Uh, if you have questions, comments, concerns, email us. Paco subs@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram at a pocket of studs. I am Matt Smith at Rubble's Robes. And I'm kind of new. Is it real? Kind of new years, but I guess I'll probably change that. Yeah, we'll, we'll get into it later. Uh, anyway, thank you for listening and we'll see you next week. Cheerio. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]