[MUSIC PLAYING] We have a Bella Checkian story. Oh, it's true. Canada soccer. It's their tie. It's their season. We had Kevin Blue on last week. We're like, tell us what innovative tactics are you. You didn't say anything about drone cheating, OK? I'm kidding, kind of. I don't know what's going on with this story. Ben Priestman, the Canadian National Team Coach, being peppered with questions I'd imagine. As we speak right now, if you're wondering what is gunning talking about, well, let me tell you. I'm just going to read a headline from Yahoo Sports. Olympic soccer, Spygate? Question mark. Canada staffer detained for flying drone over New Zealand training. We could just call it practice. Not everything has to be so soccer verbiage. At training, I love this story. This is like truly dumb summer sports season. Who knows what happened? If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. I kind of believe that until you get caught. Obviously, there is a point of demarcation. Hello, Houston Astros. But this story, it is just one of these weird ones that we're going to get a handle on. Probably we're like mere hours away from knowing more about this, I'd imagine. But somebody has been detained regarding this. So good morning, Daniel. Good morning, Gunnar. I love this story. I think it's fantastic. I saw it pop up yesterday and I go, oh, baby, I can't wait for salivating Canada finally at the forefront of a scandal, a major sporting scandal dominating the headlines to lead off the Olympic Games in 2024. I love it. I think it's great. You said it. If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. I think also to a certain extent, maybe it's some acknowledgement and a bit of an admission that this woman soccer team, they won the gold medal. But they're maybe not very good. In fact, if you look, they're not. They're not exactly favored in any of their matchups throughout the group stage. And at the greatest irony, the most beautiful aspect of all of this, and of course, it sort of makes sense, logically speaking, although they could be trying to have drones flying on various practices. But they get to play New Zealand tomorrow morning. Fitting. Very fitting. And if you don't think those, if New Zealand's the one when it comes to rugby, they have like, they're the all-blacks. Yes, the Hakka. Oh my goodness. If those ladies don't pull out the Hakka and try to impose their will on our Canadians, I would be ashamed on behalf of those New Zealanders. They need to stick it to us. They really do. But you know what? I love the effort. I really do. I love it. I admire it. Well done by the Canadian soccer team. Well done by Canada soccer. I hope that doesn't mean that there's meddling going on on the men's side. That's my other thing. Okay. But I love this. I really do. So yeah, they do do the Hakka. They do it in all sports. It's amazing how intimidating it is when they're good at the sport. And I've seen the video of the men's basketball team doing the Hakka in front of James Harden in those boys. And let me tell you, like they're very respectful. This wasn't a Fergie at the NBA All-Star situation. But I think they kind of wanted it to be there like, okay, are you done? Are you done? Clap an interface before we clap you by potentially triple digits here. But yeah, when they're good at it, obviously a super imposing thing. The other thing that I go to with this. And again, like I just, but not really, it's what happens when you lose the leadership of Kristin Sinclair, you know, you have the woman at the top all of this, the greatest of all time. And also, you know, saying like, we don't need to cheat. We're already cheating by having me here. This is basically cheating enough. It's just so we see this all the time, like transition periods of and we talked about this again with Kevin Bloom. We had him on the show last week, the idea of what is it like when a program transitions now? I don't think they go, all right, Sinclair's gone. We now aren't selling her with this. Get the drones out, but it is wild. I just, I'm dying to see the reaction to this story. I'm kind of dying to see how big it becomes in Olympic pre Olympic lead up lore. Obviously, we're going to talk about it a ton. It's a Canadian story, but this is the thing about Olympics is there's no one Olympic games. Very rarely it happens where, okay, London, I think it was London 2012. Usain Bolt. Yeah. Okay. Mm hmm. That's one Olympic games. We're all experiencing the exact same thing. We're going, hmm. This guy's very fast. I'd like to see him do it as fast as he possibly can. Will he actually try? We're all excited to watch that. But in the lead up to the Olympics, there is no one Olympic games. America's then telling 30,000 stories about the 30,000 gold they're going to win here in Canada. We're having our flag bearer debate, trying to talk about whatever's going like again, every country, the hosts in Paris, they got a completely different story. You've done the host Olympic's before where the lead up to it is, yes, Canada and you did it. Amazing. But so much of it is infrastructure. And is this going to work? And how's it going to hold up? I'm very curious to see if this kind of takes more of a hold. I think it helps that this is like a super dead zone. I think it helps that it's the very easy Bella Chequi and Spygate, like we could translate it very easily. But that's the thing I'm kind of curious to see is just how much of a hold does this get in North America of those cheating Canadians? I feel like that's what they'll want to call this. That's a really interesting question. I don't know how much residence, frankly, it's going to have outside of our own orbit. Like I think within the next couple of days after mind you, when highlights are played around the world tomorrow after that game, the lead, the headline is going to be this comes on the back of Canada, allegedly using drones to spy on the New Zealand soccer team. But once that all sort of dissipates and Thursday turns into Friday, I think it all kind of disappears and goes away, frankly, although here in our country, it may become a sticking point and a talking point, especially if this women's team doesn't perform very well, then I think we're all going to circle back to that and say, okay, I mean, clearly they were trying to try to nerf whatever advantage they could. Speaking of competitive integrity, you want to know something about competitive integrity? Maybe for years, as you alluded to in a weird way, they looked at it as, you know how we nerfed competitive integrity? We had Christine Cinco, that was our way of screwing the system right there. That's at number 12. But now we have to find different ways to try and gain an advantage, a leg up on the competition. So I don't know overall, though, what level of resonance this is going to have beyond, you know, beyond the parameters of Canada, beyond the parameters of North America, and within the next 48 hours, I would just imagine it's going to dissipate. But I do think, I really do think it is, as I said, a lot of fun for at least this moment to have Canada be the leading story as it pertains to the Olympic Games before the opening ceremony commences on Friday. That to me feels like a win, even though it's on bad in the circumstances are bad, they're murky, they're not positive. You still feel like heck, heck to all of that, they're talking about us, they're talking about us. Well, the other thing I was thinking about with this is like football is obviously, and maybe you would disagree, but I feel like football is far and away the sport where you can get a competitive advantage. And I'm talking, I'm talking like real man's American, we'll talk to Charles Davis after seven o'clock football, not world, European football, soccer, if you will, okay? Football is the one where you gain far and away the most advantage. There's packages that they're going to do, there's substitutions, there are set kind of roots, a route you can expect that if certain sets, all of that, that's far and away the most advantage. That's why Belichick did it because the guy loved to win, he couldn't stop himself from it. I don't know where soccer kind of falls in this in terms of it, right? Because I, you know, we don't think of it as a set play sport necessarily, like we don't think of it as basketball where it's like, all right, what are they going to run? What's their horns played, the elevator doors, whatever. But soccer is not, I'm sorry, just stuck in light years warriors here, I knew you would appreciate that. That's tremendous. But with soccer, again, not to say obviously there's tactics involved, obviously there's formations and how are they going to set up and what's it going to look like. But I don't know where exactly it falls on the, like if football is at the farthest end of the spectrum where you have the most to gain there, I don't know where kind of soccer falls into that. Is it like in your opinion, think it's closer to football or closer to, because honestly like, I look at a sport like hockey, right? And yeah, okay, you could give a different look on the power player, whatever. But outside of wanting to see how hurt a guy is, I don't know what you're leaning out of a practice watching hockey again, basketball, their sets, their inbound plays, their things you can take out of that. I just wonder where soccer kind of falls on that. And again, obviously at this level, any advantage you could take, you'll take. But that that was honest about other first kind of first blush, because again, I go chocker with everything to hockey, I go, there is obviously an advantage to be gained. Teams wouldn't just protect their practice if there was nothing. But I think of the grand scheme of things, especially comparing it to football or even basketball, there's just less to be gained there and I wonder where soccer falls. Totally. I mean, hockey, they're on the ice for 40 minutes and half of the time you're asking yourself, what in the bleep are they doing anyway? Because tactically, I guess the only area in terms of hockey, where I could see this being providing a relative advantage to an opponent, is when it comes to special teams. Like the teams every day, right, stand there, they go through their power play alignment, their penalty kill alignment, those responsibilities, apart from that, it's out of all the sports. The least, the least instructive in terms of trying to spy and peek in on a practice. Also though, Gunner, here's the thing, there's this magical world, this magical tool called film, you can just watch the team, that's all you got to do. I've done it, I watch, I'm preparation, if I can find film on teams that were playing, for kids that are, whether it was my high school senior boys or my U-15 boys, currently, if I could find film on an opponent that we're playing, I would go watch the film and try and discern how they like to play some of the tendencies. Do they press? Do they play zone? Do they play man? What do they do? So, you can dive into that, maybe on the off chance, let's say you've watched a team practice on a Tuesday compared to the game they played last week, are there going to be a couple wrinkles? Exactly. Of course, sure, but again, at this level, the highest level of professional sport, right, like these are these teams, we have to be mindful of this as well. Generally, we refer to the Olympics as an amateur athletics event, right? That's the spirit of the Olympics. But when it comes to basketball, when it comes to soccer, on the women's side, not on the men's side because there's an age, but they're pro athletes, right? They're pro athletes. These staffs, these coaches, these players are all familiar with the preparation aspect of it. How do you prepare? How do you scout an opponent? They do this on the daily, so there's no, trust me, I think, what did they gain? Like, it's a great question that you pose and pause it because in soccer of all the sports, they have cameras from all different angles. You can see the formations and alignments. You can see all the sentences. With drones, probably. There you go. So, they just keep the drones accessible from gameplay and avoid the practices. But that, you're, you're, that's a very fair play because I don't know what it is. Last one. This is much sillier than that. It was a very good, serious breakdown you gave us. What would be the funniest Olympic sport for there to be a cheating scandal? Because my mind, okay, break dancing, that's a very good answer. My mind immediately goes to and like, no disrespect. They're all incredible athletes. I could not do what they do. My mind immediately goes, I don't even know if this is still in there. I imagine it is the walk racing where they're not. They're man. Yeah. Speed walking, okay? Yeah. I don't know how you're cheating. I don't know how you're cheating in that. But if there was a scandal involving that, it's like, how bad do you want it? Like, these guys, there has never been, and girls, women again, like, they're all tremendous athletes. They dedicate their life to it. And every single time I go, that's the one, eh? That's the one. That's the one. Not kayaking. Not the calf one, honestly, not break dancing. That's the one. That's what you wanted to do. I don't know what the cheating scandal would look like regarding that. But I would just, that's to my mind. But break dancing is very good, like, imagine, oh, that would actually, you know what? That's the right answer is break dancing. Because imagine we have, imagine the different tenor we would look at break dancing with in the Olympics. If we had a Belichick Ian Spygate scandal, we think these guys are all, you know, showing up and like, I'm going to go smoke a bowl behind the arena and get out here and really spin on my head. That's how I think a lot of people like ex-games envision it, okay? Okay. That's what I think people look at with this. These people are all athletes, okay? They're all dedicated again. That's the one you picked. But sure, they dedicated their lives to this. How different would we feel about if it's, well, they actually had a guy and he was in like a ghillie suit and he was dressed up as a plant in the ballroom. They were practicing because he needed to know he needed to get the edge in break dancing. This guy spinning on, on his head with three, he's got a third leg somehow. Careful with that. I got to figure out, yeah, I have to, how am I going to want up this? I better change up my routine. I better change up. That's essentially it. Okay. So break dancing and speed walking. Those are the two I would like to see a scandal. I'm not, let me clarify also, let me also clarify a non-steroroid scandal. Like we're just like, we're going to get those. But the steroids scandals are fun. They can be fun, but I want a different ilk. Having said that though, the fastest walker in the world getting popped for Royds. That's funny. That's funny. This also, okay. Blue Gives, whatever. We'll get to them when we get to them. This also leads me to the thing that, I don't know if you saw this story. This was from a Lord knows when earlier this year at some point, but it's basically like Peter Thiel. He's just big like tech executive super, you know, very Elon Musk coded, if you will. He basically put out a thing where he wants to do the steroid Olympics of hey, like whatever, you want to do to your body and get out there and run a seven second hundred meter dash, have at it. And again, like, you know, ethics and people and what it would do to them is I understand all that. Having said that, like park all the ethics to the side for two seconds. How electric. We always do the thing of in the Olympics, oh, they should put me out there so we could see how truly impressive. I think we got it. They're all very impressive. I want the opposite. I want to see what the human body can truly do. Give me the steroid Olympics. Please, please, please, which event at the steroid Olympics would you be most excited for? I mean, at first, Washington sprinting, but I don't know how that works. Yeah. I would need like, you know, they're going to look like gazelles. Well, that's the thing. So I think I think I just, I mean, I, I guess this exists on the internet and I could probably just go find it if I wanted, but like immediately go to weightlifting. That's, that's from my head one. Just freak a nature. Yeah. Muscles on muscles. They got shin muscles. Got eyelid muscles. That's, that's the one I would go to. I think something like, yeah, that's, that's what worked into my mind. Right. Right dancing. Like how good, how good could, how fast could they spin with steroids? Who knows? I was just going to find out just because I don't want to disparage the sport at all. I want to make sure we're accurate in our labeling of the sport. Okay. It's race walking. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We had a guy win, we had a guy win, I believe gold, Evan Dumfries, I want to say is the name. And if I've pulled that correctly, then I respect race walking more. I think you're right on that one. I respect it more than all of you. Good submission on the text link. Okay. Shop put. That's a really fun one too. I actually, I think that's a really interesting one. So here's what I want to see then. I want them to do it, but then I want them to just make the ball heavier and heavier until they get back to normal heights. Like how have it, can they shop? Okay. Yeah. Could they shop, put a beer keg clean across the field, but these freaks in nature, they're all roided up and Peter Thiel's steroid Olympics. All right. One day, maybe, I don't know again. There's a lot of ethics that I can actually like dive into and think about. That's no fun. That's a, you know what? You can park the ethics. That's fine. That's a 12 hours from now conversation. That's a dinner table conversation like, Oh, what do you think about the net now? Six in the morning, brains still getting going fun. Exactly. Okay. Blue Jays fun. So always go hand in hand. Wow. Hasn't exactly been the way they almost had fun last night when Alejandro Kirk made a valet and effort at the end of the game. And then guess what? Well, ball petered out of the track as it's, uh, want to do blue Jays drop their series opener against the Rays. The Rays, another great burrios start there. Let's start there. How big a part of the core is he? I mean, we talk about Vlad is the lone pillar that you are 100% certain about being a blue chain. And even that is not a certainty until he's locked up. Jose burrios is he is under contract. He's going to be here. And then he's still going to be here. And then then even George Springer's contract will be off the books and he will still be here. How much of a team or how much do you think the starting pitching landscape in baseball makes it so the blue Jays need to hang on to that guy as opposed to doing a hard set rebuild with him? Yeah. You know what? So economically, I think he is a part of your core because the contract is palatable, right? For a guy that, you know, historically throughout his career has posted year in your road, you know, 30 plus starts bordering on anywhere between 180 to 200 innings. There's a price that you pay for the durability that comes with that. There's, there's value there. And at 18.7 million dollars that you're paying him, he's one of the more affordable sort of mid-tier starting pitchers in all the major league baseball. Like he's, we know he's not a one. He's not an ace. He has the ceiling on occasion at times of showing that sort of side of his game. But generally, things balance themselves out and he projects more as like a three, four starter, ideally in a perfect world with higher upside. I mean, I look at him as a, I look at him as a lock solid to for a, for a, let's, let's be. That's fair. That's fair by me. That's fine by me. World series team that's doing it with pitching and defense, then he can be a three on that team. But I think on just about any normal World Series contender that looks at it on a kind of balance. Still, I think it's again, like that's not to say a team couldn't have two better pitchers than burrios. I think a lot of teams would look at that guy if they were going to acquire him and what it would cost as the two. That's fair. Yeah. You know, cause I like there are plenty of examples for Cleveland. Where does he, where would he find Cleveland's rotation? He probably projects more as like a three in that rotation Seattle. Where is he fitting behind Castillo Gilbert? They have like, so there are, again, all dependent on the team, regardless, his contract is very palatable, which makes him an attractive asset, whether it's for the Blue Jays or somebody else. But frankly, this is might be one of the better contracts that they've signed during this tenure under this regime, because it's a guy that has a proven track record, has still delivered on a lot of performance since signing that contract extension. And it's netted out favorably in terms of the result for them, given what they traded away to acquire him from Minnesota in what, 2021, I believe it was. So it's, it's, it's a very affordable, palatable deal. Here's what's interesting. In two years, he's got the opportunity to opt out. Now based on his cap number, 18, seven, even at this current pace, let's say he's a, and a guy that's in the high threes and is with a ZRA, but you're in your out. He is posting 30 starts hovering around 180 to 100, and to 200 innings every single year. But it's valuable in free agency in the open market. So as much as we say, let's lock him in, let's pencil him in as a guy that's going to be here. And you feel pretty confident because of his age, because of his track record. Guess what? That could all quickly evaporate pretty soon. Like we talk about Kevin Gosman, less two years of control left, ostensibly burials is in the same position. He controls his destiny in two years to dictate whether he wants to walk out the door and test free agency or opt into the remainder of his deal. And I can assure you, even even with how he's performed recently, he's still in a position where he can cash in and make more money on the open market because his repertoire is still very good. And you can look at him squint and say, well, right now, what is the biggest issue with him? Why has he struggled over the last couple of months? There's things you can actually sort of identify and point to. And if you're a more trained baseball eye, it's easier to do that, even, even tenfold. But you say, well, the delivery has looked a little bit sporadic. The command has wavered at times. He's been struggling to figure out what secondary pitches are going to work for him in any given start. So you say, okay, those are fixes, we can fix that. So I think as much as like, I think he should be, he's a guy I would not consider trading. But at the same time, you have to operate under the notion that, realistically, you've got two years left with him. That's how I'm approaching this. So with that in mind, you have to figure out, does he have more value for us on our team? Or are we going to be, could we trade him and get something of substance back that would help us? You can't do it now, because he struggled too much recently to garner enough value. But it is an interesting question to consider as we move forward here, because everybody seems to be penciling that in like, oh, but Barrios, he's still like, you got him for many more. No, you don't. You got him for two more years. That's it. That's really what you got with him. So you have to figure out at some point or another, you have to make a decision on that. Yeah. Barrios is a very interesting test case. And maybe the guy who's, and you know, it's forecasting what any particular player, but just free agency in general will look like several years from now is a tricky thing. But I wonder if the basset market will be informative of what Barrios market is going to look like. I mean, we don't necessarily think of them as the same pitcher, but they're much closer, you know, related to one another. They're much closer, kind of pitching cousins than, you know, Barrios and somebody who runs it up there at a hundred miles an hour again, not that he lacks a Vilo, but that's he is much more of a pitcher than simply a thrower. And I think that the fact that that'll come before his age 33 season now again, Jose Barrios and Blake Snell, completely different animals. But Blake Snell, like for all the warts, there are about the player and they certainly exist. There are a lot of the check marks that we look for, like one Cy Young check, pitch dim world series check, and he was 31 years old and had to take a two year deal, which granted pays him a ton of cash and there's a player option involved. So it's not like we sometimes painted out like Blake Snell's in the poor house. He's doing okay, but I do think that you look at the market for those guys who are not truly transcendent superstars and what it's been, be it for hitters or be it for pitchers. And I don't know that the opt out is a certainty. I think it's more likely than not that he does take it because you can look at, okay, I'm old 25 and I'm old 50 over these last two years. Can I get 75 over three or something like that to try to extend the window? I do think that's the likely thing of what happens here, but I just think the way baseball free agency is gone, the idea that Barrios is, and I don't even think he's thinking about this right now, quite frankly, but if he was the idea that he'd be licking his chops of getting to the market at 33 years old, I think that's also super up in the air. And that's where this is where you have to make a decision on a trade. We always look for these, well, it was black or white, you got it. This is where a team will look at a player. Let's say it's the Orioles. They seem to be the one everyone's linking to pitching and they'd want to go out and add a controllable arm, you know, scoobles link to them for that exact reason. But if you're the Orioles, you can sit there and say, okay, we're going to get Barrios. And again, I don't think that's going to happen because of the performance. But if he had kept his end of the bargain up and was performing, you could see the Orioles saying, all right, we're going to get these three runs with him. And then there is a very good, there is a, there is a good to okay chance that we're also going to get the two more after that. And if the opt out happens, then we have that money to pay Jackson holiday and presumably he's not included in that trade or Adley Rochman or go down the list of all the guys that are going to have to pay. So I actually think that if you're a team like the Blue Jays, that is the vision you should be selling to one of these GMs that, Hey, this is actually the kind of perfect window. You're either going to have plus two, right. And I just think that that's the thing. And again, Barrios, the way he's performed heading into the deadline has made this kind of a moot point that you're not going to do this. But we always hear, and again, we hear this at all deadlines, not just baseball. I'd like to make a trade that helps our team this year. I would love to make a trade that helps our team for this year and seasons beyond. We hear that all the time. And if Barrios had been able to perform, I think there's a world where teams were to talk themselves into that of, okay, I'm going to go out and get some rental or I'm going to get scuba who is without a shadow of a doubt gone in two years, or can I pivot and get burrios and go about it a different way? I think it's just one of the other. And again, like the, of all the ills for the Blue Jays this season, Jose Barrios year has been very, very, very low on that list. But it is one of these kind of missed opportunity moments that they, they could have potentially had here. Yeah, it could be. I mean, his, his season as a whole, you know, now we've quietly reached the point where it hasn't been great. Like he had one good month, you know, you know, we said that about last year, Matt Chapman, we said Matt Chapman had one good month and then proceeded to completely fall apart and do nothing offensively for the remaining five months of the baseball season. Jose Barrios, you know, had a terrific start to the season, 144 ERA through his first seven starts, which took him to the end of April. And then now as ERA sits at 408 in his last 14 starts, it's a 551 ERA gunner, like that is not a good resume to boast. And certainly he could have not could have did the Jays a solid, but would have benefited it would have behooved the Jays if he had been pitching reasonably well to at least consider. And that's why I've been making this point with Kevin Gossman. It's also applicable to Jose Barrios. And you would argue that Jose Barrios is probably a more attractive asset because he's also younger. And that's part of why everybody sort of dismissed the notion, the idea of would you consider moving this guy? Well, well, because he's under contract and for an extended period of time and he's younger. So why would you do it? Well, that makes him, in theory, actually more attractive as an asset than it does denigrate the asset. With Gossman, the reason I'm pushing so hard right now, I am advocating for the Blue Jays not to trade him, not because I dislike Kevin Gossman. It's quite the opposite. I think he's very good. I think he's been good throughout his entire tenure with this team, but that he's much more futile as an asset to hang on to. So with two more years left there, I'm like, please do it. Consider it. Trust me. The aging curve is real. The performance, the decline is going to happen at some point. Don't let it happen on your watch when he's on the roster. For reos, they feel like there's more runway because he's younger, because of the contract situation. And as you alluded to, just to clarify it all, he's basically got, after 2026, the two years at 48 million that he can opt into, or he can opt out of that and look elsewhere. But over the next two years after this one, it's $18.7 million. And if you're a team, as you pointed out, imagine Baltimore, imagine a Cleveland, imagine any of these teams that are in the contending window. That is really, really palatable, because it's affordable. And he's a young, young-ish pitcher, who, as you pointed out rightly, can pitch to the level of being a one or two. But more often than not, his floor is still super safe. Yep. And I look at it as the, it would have been the perfect opportunity to sell someone on. You could have cost certainty heading into your off season of what that, again, two, three, whatever you look at them. GM's love having cost certainty and soda owners, but the GM's like it because then they know how much money of the owners they get to go spend after that. All right. I've got some Leafs thoughts rattling around in my brain, I'm going to get two. But that actually, that Blue Jays discussion, there's just a little tease, folks. How likely is it that they're going to run it back? And how infuriating will it be when they do? Nice little Wednesday topic, you know, hump day, get you over it. We'll talk about that on the other side, fan morning show on Sportsnet, five night of the fan. Diving deep into leaps, Raptors, J's and NFL, the JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Tis the season for hot seed talk. I was wondering why we were getting hot in here. I was going to say run DMC for run it back, but now it all makes sense at the end. Good job by the highs guys behind the glass. That is, of course, a Mark Feinstein. You heard him on Sportsnet, central breaking down the J's situation there. You want to talk about a devil's bargain. Imagine going up to a J's fan right now and being like, Hey, would you like a competitive baseball team that could win some games next year? And they go, man, it's funny. You should say it's great. It's funny. You should say that. I've been wandering around looking for that the entirety of 2024. And they go, I got just the man to give it to you and you're like, Oh my God, a change. This is wonderful. Wrong, not a change. It's going to be Ross Atkins. What a world. If that is the two doors the blue J's can walk between here of, Hey, competitive retool, not sucking in 2025 and Ross Atkins at the helm of it or complete scorched earth. And you have a new, you know, man to grow to hate. To be honest about this or woman, you know, could be a Marlon situation here. That's what I, I keep, I hear coming out of that clip is what a choice for the J's to make. Now, obviously there are, you know, other ways they could go about this. Like for example, trying to win with the new GM, those things are, that's a possible option as well. But man, I think a lot of people would find that pretty jarring to hear, but maybe not in a market where our true favorite thing in the world outside of Kawhi Leonard in the 2019 finals run is running it back. Yes. And he loves to run it back with him. It would not surprise. We love it with our politicians. We love it with our mayors. We can't. We cannot stop ourselves. It's just like whatever a thing was done. Do it again. We can. What is it? Like just familiarity. Some breeds contempt. Contempting. Yeah. Well, that and I was going to say comfort, but comfortable contempt. Yeah. Well, there we go. That's it. Nice little compromise. I wouldn't be shocked. Honestly, I would not be shocked whatsoever. If Ross Atkins remains in charge of this baseball operation staff in charge of this baseball team heading into 2025. And I think the hardest thing to discern the most difficult aspect of this is trying to understand or interpret how ownership feels because we don't know that answer. Frankly, the only people that know that answer are the individuals that gather up top on the whatever 17th 18th floor of this building on occasion and have a discussion. Is that apart from those people who are in that room, nobody else is privy to that information. And we don't know what their true belief, their vision, their thought process, their belief is as it relates to what's going on with this baseball team and the people who are in charge of running it. I do think though, just based on the reception, the feedback that the fans have provided in 2024 and that the product is appreciably worse than it was a year ago. This is I think the first year in which major serious questions will be asked. And this is where it goes down the road of why I can see a path for Ross Atkins remaining in charge. Because as much as we, you and I, fans, people in this media space, thought the 2023 season was pretty disappointing, pretty lackluster, underwhelming. They flame out again in the playoffs. They played an uninspiring brand of baseball. They won 83 to 89 games. They went 89 and 73. They made the playoffs and we talk about this all the time with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment with MLSE, the owners of the Raptors, the Maple Leafs, the two heavyweight giants in this city. There is much a business and focused on the financial aspect of it and the commercial side of it as they are the actual product and the fact that is the team asking the question, is the team compelling and competitive? This is the first year where the J's under this regime in the last four years, five years have actually been a team that's going to finish below 500 and miss the playoffs. Yeah, man. But that was real, what they have gone through to where they're at now. It's very different. Like we are much closer to the Halcyon days of will there be meaningful gains in September? Then we are to an 89 win team that just missed out on the playoffs with Marcus Simeon in the mix. Like it is so much farther removed from that than anything. I think the reason why it's going to be so much more pointed at the end of this off season one and maybe we're hearing the turning that this isn't the case or exactly how it's supposed to be. It's felt like a death march from Ross Atkins kind of from the start of the season. Quite honestly, once the season turned, it is felt like, okay, well, obviously there'll be a change of GM. It's going to be hard to do the sales pitch, quite frankly, of why this person is going to stay on. I think the other thing, and this can't be overstated and all as mad as everybody was at Ross Atkins last year, there were two big shiny baubles distracting everybody from that. One was the one we grew to loathe throughout the course of winter and lead us to tracking flights. And Lord does what and show Hay Otani. And it was, hey, we're not changing the front office right before we go on the pursuit of this. Say what you will, you can understand, I think, the thinking around that. The other thing is in the aftermath of the season, we weren't concerned about who the GM was, who the president was, who's going to be the manager. We were concerned about whose call it was for Jose burrios to come out of a playoff game when he had been dealing. We were concerned about Vladi getting picked off in second to end the season. Those were the things we were concerned about. And that is so much more red meat, angry stuff or a fan base to focus on than the future of the GM, which is kind of a constantly bubbling thing. Now it's gotten to a point there, but they're not going to have the things to distract all the questions at the end of season presser. Questions about Bo, questions about Vlad, but then what else, like quite frankly, what else do we care about? You want an update on Manoa's health, okay, sure, there's Schneider, sure, but the people, if John Schneider is back, let me put it this way, if the fan base had a choice, you have to bring one back. It's between Schneider and Atkins, it's 100% Schneider because you want a new direction. And I think that's the reason why this is all going to kind of come to a head is that they're outside of it from the very jump. We are hearing the pursuit of Juan Soto or something like that, which I quite frankly just don't think is going to happen because I think he's going to sign with the Yankees and it's going to be a big, big money deal. And maybe the Blue Jays will be used as leverage in that one too, okay? But I think that one's are still fresh. I know. Well, might want to keep the gauze handy. Please. I think we're going to be there again. That's what I keep coming back to is that there's not going to be the thing to distract of regarding where's this team going. There are big questions, but none of them quite frankly will be bigger than who's making the decision. Okay, so yes, yes, I made this point yesterday to think that replacing one guy is going to solve all the problems is foolish. It's you just you referenced it there. You mentioned the point. It's bigger. Like there's deeper issues at play. You use the word direction. I don't think changing. And I'll be it. He is the GM. I get it. It's his title. I don't think just by changing that individual, all of a sudden your team is your front office is going to adopt a drastically different approach or philosophy or direction because the individual that's hiring his replacement is probably still going to be Mark Shapiro. And as such, he's the one dictating the type of vision and direction that he wants from his general manager and how the team looks. Could we not see a could we not bring it back to the Leafs as we always do? Could we not see what's happened under Brendan Shanahan? That is as hard and fast a pivot as we have seen from a president in this market that I can remember. It was the speed and skill and the new age and it's like Big Bad Brad is coming in. He just wants to fence men that are six six and will pummel you. That is a complete 180. Not from where they were at the end of the Dubas tenure to where they are now, but from where it was at the start to where it is now. And I just wonder if that is and again, like I don't think anybody should look at the Leafs and go, there is the gold standard. But I do wonder if that is the blueprint there of yeah, we do like this guy as president and we are going to now. I will say the difference is the Pelly got involved there. There's not going to be some other figure getting involved in the Blue Jays mix like that is set in stone. But so that's the key difference to you there is the Pelly kind of came in or because I just look at that and I say, there's no reason. I mean, Spyro, I mean, you don't get that job because you aren't an excellent communicator and you aren't good at managing up. He can easily walk in there and say, okay, we tried, we're pivoting and it's going to be, I don't know, like we're going to get a strong guy in here who doesn't wear glasses and has a beard. He's going to look so different than Ross act like I think that's the way you can still go about it. Yeah. You know what? Hypothetically, it's possible. It is possible. You know, I just think what, what have we talked about the last few weeks when it comes to, you know, we recently had the MLB draft transpire and, and we, I mean, I think you were off at the time. Ben and I, we were having a conversation with BNS who did a big deep dive pertaining to all the draft failures that under this front office, the biggest indictment on what this front office has done, it's some of the missteps as it pertains to, you know, trades not working out certain signings, not panning out. But the biggest, biggest indictment is their inability to do what they set out to do when they arrived here on day one, which was replenish the firm system and build a firm system that was among the best in baseball because you need to supplement your system. So I don't know that the GM step, a change at general manager is going to fix that without widespread changes across the board in other areas of your organization, scouting, how, because that is a reflection of top down how they value and want to evaluate players. But it's, it's pretty simple. So I just, I'm just saying in, if, if the GM comes in and has autonomy, different story, but there is an element of how much autonomy is that person going to have? How are, are they going to be fully empowered to say, this is my vision. This is how we're doing it. How you guys did it for the last nine years while Ross Atkins was in charge, throw it all away, we're doing it different, but yet the president's still the same, right? It's possible. Yes. Okay. Now, also does Mark have, does Mark have as much cache as let's say Brandon Shanahan? I think more. Okay. I think more. So that the answer should be yes. Look at how ownership like there has never been a moment where we have seen the Brandon Shanahan sitting up there with his new boss moment with Mark Shapiro because it doesn't exist. will be the decider of things until he's not, like, there's not a world where, and again, like, ownership is involved to the extent that all ownership is. They want to be aware of things. Oh, hey, I got it. I'm sorry. We're giving a guy a billion dollars. Yeah, you could probably tell me about that. We could be involved in that, but it's not the vision. And I think the other thing that is so hard to square here is that this is a team that I can sit here and dump on where this team is at now. But I also have to remember that this is the same group that put together the best team in base, but the best team in the history of baseball to have never made the postseason in the Marcus Simeon Jays, or a team that if Laddy just could have woke up and not get picked off at second base, we're having a totally different conversation about. Like, I, again, I can be as down and downer on things as possible, but I also have to be realistic to look at this group. And again, where they're at now, consequences. They should, there should be someone who wears this, but it's also the idea of, well, this, this, absolutely, the entirety of this. I think Ross Atkins has to go as general manager, full stop. I don't, there's, it's not going to happen before the deadline. So you might as well keep in the rest of the year, but there has to be a change there. But the idea that this particular era of Blue Jays has, again, it's not been a success. They've literally never won a postseason game. They have trouble scoring more than one run in the games unless they're going to blow the lead and then they could score a whole bunch of runs early on. Okay. All the faults I see there, there are also teams that would kill to have played in the postseason the amount of times the Jays have been. And again, where they're at now, there's consequences that have to be paid for for those things. But I also look at it and say you cannot paper over the relative success that they, that this group has had. Someone has to wear it, but the guy at the top, I think, has still earned enough cracks to try this again. I think the key there is he's now one layer removed from the marsh fire. This is one layer removed from the bullseye being on his back. And that one bullet that he has left to use is fire the GM, because they've done it to the manager, right? Next in line is the general manager and to pit the blame there and say the bulk of the decision making stems from this individual. And this is why our team is not in the most desirable position right now. Here's how we're going to even if it's just cosmetically, we're going to send a positive message to the fan base. Because as you put it, somebody needs to be held accountable. There needs to be ownership and responsibility for what has transpired here. That's it. Once that move happens, then the bullseye shifts squarely onto the back of Mark Shapiro. That's it. So he goes from being the one, and we're seeing we've seen this with the Leafs, and everybody will tell you now, well, who is the one person that if there's any change that's going to be made over the course of the next 12 months from a managerial standpoint? It ain't going to be the coach. It ain't going to be the general manager. It's going to be the president. The Jays are in a very similar position once if this were to transpire, then all of the pressure goes on to Mark Shapiro. Because he's going to have to be the one to sit there in November or October, and at a press conference, and he has to be the one to take ownership for what went wrong. Sit there and say, this is why it didn't work. This is what we're doing differently. This is how the individual sitting to my right or left is going to fix this. Then our conversation becomes less about whoever that person is, and it becomes more about what does it mean for Mark moving forward? Yeah, a lot to get into. We'll get into more of that as the show goes on. Ben Nicholson Smith, who's going to join us just after eight o'clock as well. Also, coming up after seven o'clock, we've got deeds on the cheaters. Apparently, okay, like people are suffering consequences. It ain't for nothing. Canada soccer will give you the update on what's going on there. But before we do that, Bush is coming to Budweiser stage for their loaded the greatest hits tour on August 19 with guest Jerry Cantrell and candle box to celebrate. We're giving away tickets to enter. All you have to do is tune into episodes of the fan morning show, listen to the code word, then text the code word to 59590 standard message and data rates may apply. Today's code word is the kingdom. Again, text the kingdom to 59590 right now to enter for your chance to win. We're also giving away another pair of tickets tomorrow. But if you don't win with us, tickets are on sale at ticketmaster.ca. Again, we have our first scandal of the 2024 games. It hasn't even started yet. Canada doesn't have a flag bearer. I'm pretty sure it won't be Bev Priestman. What does that mean? I'll tell you, on the other side of the break here, we continue fan boarding show, including a stop by from our old friend, Charles Davis on Sports Step 5 Night at the fan. [Music]
