Stephen and Sean stare down a topic that isn't fun but has to be discussed--should the Mariners fire Scott Servais and/or Jerry Dipoto? Plus we answer your mailbag questions (thank you for giving us a good laugh)!
The Collins It Like It Is Podcast is two brothers talking Seahawks and Mariners. Get ready for WAR, trying sorry receivers, and breaking up family feuds! Like, subscribe, and follow us on X @collinslikeitis
Collins It Like It Is
41. Should The Mariners Fire Scott Servais?
Stephen and Sean stare down a topic that isn't fun but has to be discussed--should the Mariners fire Scott Servais and/or Jerry Dipoto? Plus we answer your mailbag questions (thank you for giving us a good laugh)!The Collins It Like It Is Podcast is two brothers talking Seahawks and Mariners. Get ready for WAR, trying sorry receivers, and breaking up family feuds! Like, subscribe, and follow us on X @collinslikeitis
- Duration:
- 41m
- Broadcast on:
- 24 Jul 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
(upbeat music) - Welcome back in to the Collins It Like It Is podcast. We're done talking about the Mariners, they're dead to us. And training camp started today. So we're talking about the Seattle Seahawks, baby Sean, pivoting. No, holy smokes. Wow. - I'm down, I'm like seriously, I'm down. - Fire Murphy, you know, first time seein' him, you know, here we go. - Dude, what the heck happened? - What happened to our members? - I just don't. I don't know like what, I don't know what to say. Like this team has left me speechless. They've left me in a state that I don't know like what to do with. It's past the point of like frustration. It's past the point of like anger. Like I'm a broken fan. I don't know how it's just like, they broke me. I don't know like, I don't know how else to just say it. Like I'm not even like, like I'm numb to this. Like when we gave up that lead, you know, when we were given up leads in the Marlon series and the Ray series, I wanted to pull my hair out. I was so pissed off at this team and the effort and all that. And I tell you what, when we lost the first game of this series, and I was even frustrated in the Astro series, but when we lost game one of the series, I kind of felt nothing. I don't know if you felt like that or not. I kind of just felt numb. We lost game two and I even felt even more than nothing. And then when we lost game three, I was expecting it. Like I was like, I knew what was going to happen. You saw the train coming a mile away. It hits you and like, I don't know, I don't know how else to describe it. Like I knew exactly how this game was going to play out. The second that we didn't, or you know, it's one nothing going into the seventh inning or whatever. It's like, I've seen this movie so many times. I know how it ends. I know where the turns are and I'm not surprised that it ends the way that it ends. And I'm just numb to it. And that's a really depressing place to be as a fan. It's just feeling nothing. And you know, and there was no hope, there was no excitement. There was never, you know, bases loaded, lock leers up. There's no like anticipation. You know that they're not going to get any runs there. Something miraculous that the other team is going to do is going to happen. You know, you saw the Astros making great plays in the outfield. You just knew like, yeah, whatever needs to happen, they're not going to get it done. And sure enough, that's exactly what happened. And I just don't know like, help me process it. Cause I don't know like what to do or like where to even go from here. - Well, welcome to the therapist's office. You're welcome here and all of Seattle Mariners fandom. But here's the deal. You're going through the cycles of grief. You go from denial to anger to sadness to acceptance. And we are now at the acceptance phase. We've gone through all these cycles, man. And it's just, we know what this team is. Elite starting pitching was a disaster of a bullpen that can't hold a lead. And you know, all there is is starting pitching in Munoz. Anybody who's not there, it's a disaster pitching. And our offense is historically bad. It's awful. It's, and when I say historically bad, we're going to break the strikeout record. So yes, it's historically bad. It's unprecedentedly bad. And what is so frustrating to me is, is not that, you know, young guys and guys who are, you know, not awesome are, you know, underperforming. It doesn't even make me so mad that we have people that are truly underperforming. You know, your, your polonco's and your carvers and, you know, all that. I'm not even angry that Julio and JPR heard stuff happens. What makes me angry? And what makes me the most just frustrated and it just makes me want to just bang my head against the wall here is hearing Scott just give me the same old answers. Aside from the one presser where he showed some emotion over the last six weeks, it has been keep the faith, stay the course, it's going to change. Teams have ups and downs, ups and downs, ups and downs, and this is just going to get sorted out. Well, guess what? It hasn't. And we're basically now a 500 team. Like we have cratered. We are 10 and 20, we are 10 and 20 over our last 30 games. Is that what the stat was? That was texting you guys about? - I don't know. I don't even want to look at it. Here's the thing that, that it's going to be better. It's going to be, you know, it's going to turn. It's going to, you know, it's going to be fine. It's just one of those stretches. - That would hold some weight if you didn't say that crap last year. - There it is. - If you didn't say that stuff last year, I would maybe buy it. You said the same thing in September last year. I believe this team is going to make the playoffs. I believe we're going to play October baseball. This team fights, this team believes in themselves. That locker room doesn't give up. I've heard this before, Scott. You said the same stuff to us in every press conference last year and you're saying it to me again and I don't buy it this time. - You can sell it to somebody else. I don't buy it. This team stinks. - Oh yeah, I mean, to frame that. Yeah, I got the stats in front of you. I was correct. We were 10 and 20 over our last 30. That's on pace. If you took that win percentage, which is obviously 33%, that's a 54 win pace for the year. That would be the worst record in franchise history. And when you're going to have the worst record in the Seattle Mariners franchise history, that's saying something, baby. So this team has absolutely cratered. And now it becomes about professional pride for me for Stanton to Poto. Is this a professional organization? Is this an organization that we need to take seriously? I'm not saying that our dad was texting with us about this. I'm not saying that Scott is the problem, but he bears the responsibility as the manager. And at the end of the day, we have free fallen. We would have the worst record in baseball if the Chicago White Sox didn't exist. If we carried out that pace for the whole year, I mean, this is an absolute cratering. Losing like what, nine out of 10 series or something? I mean, it's just an absolute cratering. And it's a disaster. It's an abject disaster. And it's also not like with Scott. This is a second year managing. The Mariners weren't like what year nine. Is that what it is now? I mean, it's-- - This is year nine. - This is year nine. I mean, they have a nine year sample size. And if the season ended today, we would not make playoffs. And that means you're missing playoffs eight out of nine years. That's an abject failure. That doesn't work. That's not something that Mariners fans should tolerate. That's not the standard. I get it. We're not the Yankees. We're not the Dodgers. We're not those tier one franchises. Nobody's saying we are. But there's still a standard to be a professional baseball team. They're not mean it. They're just flat out not mean it. And it's frustrating. And what makes me so angry is when Scott acts like we're the crazy ones for having a standard. That we're the crazy ones for caring. That we're the crazy ones for getting passionate about this team. Like, what are we talking about? Like, you should care more than I do. Like, this is your job. Like, this reflects you. Like, I'm just a stinking fan. I'm nobody. This is your squad, man. And I don't know if it's an effort. If you, I don't know if it's a mindset issue. I don't know if it's just losing a locker room. I don't know. But I know that something has to change systematically. This is an institutional failure, institutional. - It's historic. We've lost-- - It is. - That we've lost a 10 game lead in a historic way. This offense is historically bad. We're wasting-- I wouldn't call it historically good pitching. That's not fair to the pitchers. But we're wasting probably, at worst, the second best charting rotation in all of baseball behind the Phillies. You could argue maybe the Orioles. But I'd take us over the Orioles as far as our rotation. You're wasting that. And that can't happen. So I'm just going to rip the bandaid off. I think that this isn't a prediction. But I think that it is time to move off from Scott's service. And that's not because this is all Scott's service's fault. At the end of the day-- - He's not after hitting. Like he's not that in a buck 40. Like it's not his fault. - And the reason that Ty France got DFA'd or put on waivers and then DFA'd is because you could put Ty France on waivers. You can't put Hanigur on waivers. He's making $17 million. So that's not going to work. You can't put Garver on waivers. He's making $12 million. So you can't. You can't put Polanco on waivers. You don't have another second baseman. You could put Ty France on waivers and put him on DFA. And so that's what you did. There's the reality of you can't fire Jerry DiPoto. The trade deadline is in a week. And then after the trade deadline, the draft's already happened. So what's firing-- there's nothing left for Jerry DiPoto to do. I mean, what are you going to-- firing him doesn't do anything for this year. So it's not going to accomplish anything. The reason that you fire Scott isn't because it's fair to Scott. It's not his fault. But you fire Scott because you can fire Scott. That's not a prediction. I don't think that they are going to do that. I think that he's going to be the manager for the rest of the year. And I hope that things turn around. I hope that they make the playoffs. I hope they have reason to bring this regime back. But there has to be consequences. One of my favorite movies is "National Treasure." And at the end of the movie, the Freemasons guy tells Nicholas Cage his character. Someone's got to go to prison then. And it's like, someone's got to get fired here. It can't just be Brent Brown. And firing the other hitting coaches, I'm going to do it. There has to be consequences for this. There has to be ramifications for what has happened. This is historically bad. And there has to be a standard, like you said. And so that would be my next course of action. It's really depressing. Nothing would make me happier. Nothing would make me happier than the Mariners. When in a world series and seeing Scott service raise that-- specifically Scott service raising that trophy. He's such a good dude. And I've gone to bat for him so many times online and stuck up for him. And I can't think of any reason to stick up for him anymore. And the main reason for that is, what do you offer? What do you do? If you aren't elevating your team, if you're not being the vibes guy, if you're not able to have your team rebound and pick themselves up from situations like this, that's what makes you special, Scott. It's certainly not in game management. It's not your bullpen management. It's not your lineup construction that makes you a unique manager. It's that you are able to hold your team together in a unique way. You trade gravemen. They were able to bounce back from that. You have these in the sea wall thing. You were able to keep your roster and your lineup from spiraling. You're not able to do that this year. And if you're not able to do that, then you don't have any qualities. You don't have anything that you bring to the table. So that's kind of where I'm at with this whole thing. Yeah, Sean, you've been saying on the last few episodes which have been a blast with Ty and Jay and all that. Go back and check those out if you haven't yet. But if the mayors don't win the division this year, when do they do it? And when do they do it? And this is the year. And in the same line of logic, if you don't fire a manager for this type of collapse, when do you ever fire a manager? Yeah. If this doesn't get you fired, what does? You're not letting them go because you think, necessarily, it's his, again, his fault, but it is his responsibility. And this has been a colossal failure on his watch. I've watched the team stop fighting. Like, I've watched a team with no heart. I've watched a team with no, like, with no fire. It's a chore to watch. That's his job. He can't make them hit, but he can't make them have fire. And there's just a, they're not even angry. They don't even seem upset. Yeah, they seem like us, they seem just like dead to it. Like, they're just numb. They're expecting to lose and they're losing. Like, that seems like the vibe. Yeah, totally. It's like, it's the shell shock team with no fire, no grit. Where's the leadership, you know, rallying the team together? Cause, I mean, we watched all those like LOB teams, man, with the Seahawks and there'd be times where the, they were getting torched by somebody. And all of a sudden you have a Bob, you have a shurm, like calling people around and getting in people's faces and saying this is unacceptable. And I get baseball, football, they're different sports. But at some point, there has to be somebody in that locker room saying this is not the standard. And the standard is not the Mariners as a franchise. The standard is just being a professional baseball team. Like, that's the standard. And what I'm watching is not a professional, like, offensively, it is not professional quality. This is a bad product. That's on Scott. Like, that's on Scott. If this team was showing fight, if Scott was in the dugout, talking about this is unacceptable, I would have a very different tune. But if you're not saying this is unacceptable, then why would I assume that anything's going to change? If you're not demanding something changes, then this is just going to continue. Like, and if it does change, that's not because you did something awesome. It just happened to change. Like, it changed in spite of you, not because of you. Like, I don't see anything happening from Scott that gives me any reason to believe that anything meaningful is going to change. Because he's not showing a sense of urgency, and he's not demanding change. And that to me is really frustrating. 100%. And I think that Jerry DiPoto has more blame than Scott. Like I said, you can't fire Jerry. So I'm pissed off of Jerry, too. This team that he put together, we can sit here as fans and say, "Oh, it was a good process." Team Stinks. Whatever. I can sit here as a fan. I'm not a front office guy. I'm a fan that watches the games. Like, I'm opinionated, but I'm going to be humble here. My opinion doesn't mean squat. I'm a fan. I'm not a scout. So I can sit here and love the process all day long. The team Stinks. And your team has stunk for, you know, seven or the nine years. And you brought in Tommy Listella and a bunch of garbage to take our team to the next level after we make the playoffs. It's terrible. I mean, this is terrible. And Jerry also needs to be critiqued. And I tell you what, you know, Jerry DiPoto, what he brings to the table is an ability to create assets. You have built your farm system into a top farm system twice. If you don't capitalize on that, then that skill is worthless. And you prove it right now that that skill actually means something. That actually creating a farm system is skill. Like, you have to do that. And if you don't do it, then get the heck out of town. Like, you know, and if you take a big swing, and if you're able to, you know, put a package together and bring in and, you know, a Luis Robert, a Niko Horner, a jazz chism, and you retool this order and it falls on its face. Okay. Like, at least you tried. At least there's something for a fan to hang their hat on and say, you know, you do something other than make the team as profitable as possible for Stanton. Like, as a fan, like, you're going to lose the fan base. I mean, I can't hang my hat on that. Cool. They, you know, they do hot dogs from heaven. And, and, you know, they've got the freaking. The highlight of the stock eyes running out in the outfield. I don't care about that. I care about the team winning. And if you're not going to put a winning product on the field, I don't care about the profitability of, of, of DiPoto. And what scares me to death is he's not going to do Jack squat. He's going to get brought back for a four year contract because he's able to do this smoke and mirrors where he's able to, you know, manipulate the fan base into believing that, oh, no, we're going to be good. You and I both get suckered into it every year. How many years are we going to do this with DiPoto? Where he, you know, is able to retool this order and we look at it, the glass, you know, in sideways and we say, oh, no, there's a winning order here. Team stinks. I mean, I'm over it, man. I'm over it. Well, you, you are, you are collectively saying what I think the, the, you are, you are individually saying what we collectively are feeling. And so Mariners fans take a, take a breath, take a deep breath. And we have some four questions that I think are going to be great to help guide us through this. So we had some people send in some questions. So I'm going to transition us there because I think we could go all night talking about how frustrated we are. And it'd be very cathartic. But can I say, can I say one more thing real quick? One minute, um, there are three examples of what a Mariners or what a marriage, when a manager gets fired and the interim manager comes in, comes in and replaces him where it's actually been, where it's been something that works. Yeah, Joe Girardi get fired and actually I had that right. It gave me one second. It'll take me a second to find it. As you're pulling it out, the reason you're saying this is you're not going to bring in somebody mid-season outside the organization. So the only option is going to be somebody inside, which almost certainly would be to grown, correct? Yeah. I got almost certainly the... Or Manny Acta, you could have Vitaly, Farquhar, Blank. Those are three options. But Joe Girardi got fired in 2022. Interim manager Rob Thompson came in and improved the team dramatically. Similar thing happened in that same year, Charlie Montoya got fired from the Blue Jays. John Schneider, not Seahawks John Schneider, but baseball John Schneider got hired. Blue Jays take a step forward. Chris Woodward back in 2022 gets fired from the Rangers. Tony Beasley gets the interim manager. Rangers take a step forward. So there is a track record where you actually do make a firing and an interim manager comes in and the team does step up. So this isn't just like taking a shot in the dark. There is precedent for this. And with that, Sean, what we talked about a ton, because we will start getting into some Seahawks stuff in the weeks ahead. But we just got sick of watching the same movie with Pete. And for a while, it was a great movie. But at some point, sick will lose in the same way. And you just have to make change for change's sake. And nobody's saying that the change is going to necessarily be better. But I know the change is going to be different. That's right, I'm out with Scott. I don't know. Aw, darn, it won't be worse. In the same way, Mike McDonald is probably going to be worse than Pete Carroll. Like, I'm not going to put that expectation to the Mike McDonald. Are you kidding me? Like, but you had to make a change. Because there's a chance that it is going to be better. And at least it's going to be different. And at some level, I don't know if many act, I don't know if the girl, I don't know if Vitaly, I don't know if any of these guys are better than Scott. Aw, it's probably not. But I can't keep watching the same movie. That's where I'm at. You have to make change for change's sake. And that's where there, that's why our tone changed. I don't know if people noticed this or not. But for a long time, we said, I don't want to give up any of our top six prospects. We did a whole episode on his Julio Rodriguez. Good enough to be the superstar for the Mariners. And our tone slowly changed to where now it's like, you've got to do something. And it all kind of revolves around that whole concept, Stephen. So if you've been noticing slowly our tone changing, you're not going crazy. We have changed our tone. We do want to see whatever it takes, whatever it takes to get Robert. That means you guys trade Emerson, you know, Farmello, Montes, all in the same deal, you have to do it. You have to do it. There's no excuse. Because this team isn't good. Yeah, and the whole idea of, oh, let's have a sustainable winner. You can't have a sustainable winner if you're not good right now. Yes, that is the yes. Yes, you have to make this there. Okay, there's two windows. You've got the starting pitching right now with a horrible lineup. And then in the future, in 2028, you're going to have a really good lineup. But the mission is all going to be exactly a maybe really good lineup with the pitching all gone. Like all of the rotation that we have right now with the exception of Miller and Wu, they're going to be gone by the time our prospects are actually impact players. So you have to make these windows fit. And if that means you're not good in 2030, who freaking cares? We suck right now. So it doesn't matter. Yeah, so you have to make those two when you have to make a window where you actually have a shot. Yes, and you have to do that now. So anyways, let's get to these. We did have a mail bag. We had four people sending questions. One of them is a silly one from our uncle. Yeah, we have to get there. That one is not there. This has been heavy. This has been heavy, man. We got to lose it. All right, get the wiggles out. We got to get it. You got to go. Uncle Jim. Uncle Jim. Here we go. Jim asks, am I too old to try out for the Mariners? I'm only 6-2-6 at the last few games, man. You feel like I have a chance. Say it again. We were laughing. Say it again. Am I too old to try out for the Mariners? I'm only 66 at the last few games and you feel like I have a chance. Jim, I won't try anything, baby. You know what? You can't be worse than JP Crawford in the ninth inning. So you know what? Get him out there, baby. My goodness. I think that's amazing. Okay, let's be real about this. Let's just. No, let's. No, no, no. Hang on now. Let's be serious. Now Uncle Jim, late innings, I think that your offense would be about you'd stand in the batter's box and strike out. We already do that. So I think where Uncle Jim would really struggle as defense. I think you would have early hard time getting to fly ball the gap. I think you'd have a hard time with that. You know, hot corner. I think you'd get back out with the rest of our lineup just fine. I think you'd have a hard time handling any range. You know, but offensively you'd fit right in, Jim. So. All right. This is another silly question, but it's just where we're at, man. Jake from Raise the Triton. I think it's going to be hopping on here in the next couple of weeks. Yeah, yeah. Are you all pro, booing or anti-booing your own players and teams? Sean, start with you. Are you pro or anti-booing? If your team's good, I'm not for booing. You know, if you've got a team that's good, then I don't think you should boo them. Am I a pro? But I think his question is, should you boo the Mariners? Dude, boo the heck out of them, man. I mean, I mean, let it rip. I mean, here's the thing. Would I boo? Heck, yeah. I mean, they I'd be booing as loud as I could. I mean, a bullhorn out there, booing. Oh, man. Yeah, absolutely. But here's the thing. Fan, how you want to fan? If you're sitting there going like, no, I'm not booing my team. Good for you. I like that. It's their home ballpark. Should you boo your own home team? If you feel like, no, I'm not doing that. Sweet. I'd boo the heck out of them. So I want them to feel. Here's the deal. If you don't feel bad for what you're watching, I'm going to try to help you. Because I got a standard. And you're not beat that bad. So I'm not going to boo a team that's clearly trying and clearly, the other part is how many errors are we going to watch? How many bonehead plays are we going to watch? How many bass running mistakes are we going to watch? How many just blunders are we going to watch? That's the stuff I'm booing. I'm not booing somebody. Here's the deal. I don't expect Vossler to be coming in and ripping doubles late in games. It's like, I'm not booing him for a lack of talent. He's not exactly a five star, 80 grade prospect here. Right? There's a reality of he is what he is. That's fine. I'm going to boo just the lackadaisical boneheadedness and just say, this isn't acceptable. I'm going to boo the lackadaisical laissez-faire reality at the Mariners or something. That's what I'm booing. I'm not booing because I don't like these guys. I'm booing because I don't like what I'm seeing. I don't accept it. I'm not celebrating it. So I'm going to boo that. So I'm booing the lead off walks. And then the walks and late innings by our relievers. I'm booing Vross Rojas throwing the ball all over the place. I'm booing, just kicking the ball around strike three. You're swinging out of bat. You swing at a slider down and away out of the zone. And then you watch a middle, middle, fast ball. Like you've never seen one before. I'm booing that. So let's be clear. Next question. I'm next. All right. Let's do J's because of the owners. Well, guess what? You just got a lot cheaper for the owners. Well, the owners, what are the owners now, Sean? Mariners miss the playoffs. Who stays? Who goes? It depends. It depends. Do you want me to go first or you? You go first. Okay. Or we can do it first by person if you want to. However you want to take this. Yeah. So miss the playoffs. That's key with this. Miss the playoffs. It depends on how we miss the playoffs. We miss the playoffs. And our big acquisition is Lane Thomas and Marc Cana. Get everybody out. Hit the road. Chain, regime. Chain on that one. Hit the road. If our big acquisition is something that is a platoon player or like, oh, we hope he's good. Get out of here, man. Get out of here. Yeah, Nico Horner is our big move. Yeah, exactly. If the Mariners make a big swing and we go out and get Robert and he gets hurt. If we go out and get a Esauk Parades and he has got an 80 WRC plus over the next 60 games. And we get a jazz chism and we retool this order and it doesn't work. Yeah. Bring it back because Jerry has qualities about him that are phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. His ability to draft and develop a farm system is absolute gold. I can't, but he's got cash in on it. He's got to be able to not just here's what it is to use a football analogy. It's not just enough to be able to get a lot of yards on offense. You have to build score points and Jerry DePoto right now is showing he is a great at getting yards, getting first downs. But can you score in the red zone? And right now, it feels like the Mariners, they're great at building this farm system, but not so great at getting that farm system to translate into actual hitters. And if you can't do that, that's okay. Then flip all those assets for real players that can be an asset. And you know, like leverage that strength that make it happen. So I'm totally with you. I completely agree. If we miss the playoffs, I don't see there's a world where we keep Scott. If I was the owner, there's not a world where I keep Scott if we miss the playoffs. But if we miss the playoffs and we swung big, I'd really swung big and win for it. I would keep that Jerry. If we don't swing big and miss the playoffs, then even if we don't, even if we don't swing big and make the playoffs, I'm still moving on Jerry. Like Jerry, to me, his job's on the line in the next, what is it? Six days, July 24th, next six, seven days. Like either you're going to go make a franchise altering trade and keep your job if I'm the owner or you don't and see you later. That's right. I think that Jerry, I think he's going, regardless of whatever happens, I think he's coming back because if he doesn't make a big move, then I think that the reasoning is going to be because he has job security. Maybe there's a deal that's already happened and it's not been publicly released. He's not going to do, I mean, if his job is on the line, he's going to trade everyone in the farm because what are you going to keep, build a farm system for the next regime? That doesn't make any sense. I think no matter which way you slice it, I'd be pretty surprised if DiPoto isn't back and again, we're talking about what we would do. I would fire Scott because you got to fire somebody. But I think that Scott and Jerry are tied at the hip. I don't think that Jerry is going to fire Scott. I think that they are, when they look at each other in the eyes, Jerry is not above Scott. He may be above Scott because he's the president of baseball operations, but in terms of the hierarchy, I think Scott looks Jerry straight in the eyes when they talk. If that makes sense. Like Pete Carroll and John Schneider. Exactly. Looking at each other in the eyes. Yep, 100%. I think that's the dynamic. And I don't think that Scott would ever be fired by Jerry unless ownership pushed him to do that. The best case for the Mariners is, and this is going to sound ridiculous, but honestly, the best case for the Mariners is Stan sells the team to Bezos. Like the best case for the Mariners is that Stan sells the team. Yeah. And to get a whole new regime changed in here, somebody's going to spend real money and change the dynamic of the franchise. Don't have areas in believe that'll happen. But you guys are the new owners? Let's pause that. Let's give them somebody with real deep pocketbooks and change the franchise. You don't want me as the Mariners owner, I can tell you that much. We could do it a lot. Hot dogs for Evan and a lot of, yeah, we'd be going real cheap. Last question. So I want to say, Jim, Jake, Jay, thank you guys for sending it. And then we've got Mojo Hand here coming in. It's the last one. So thank you guys for sending in questions. This is fun. The last one, would you extend Jerry DePoto's contract and give him another three years, three to four years to try to figure it out? Or would you clean house? I think we can answer that. I think if he goes and makes the big swine, if he goes and makes the big swine, then sure. It's the idea of you've got to show the ability to build a cash in. I mean, draft developed trade is the mantra, correct? That is the mantra. We're showing what can draft well. We're showing that we can develop a farm system well. There's a last piece to that equation is you must. Which is the most important piece. You know what I don't give a rip about? If Arkansas is awesome, you know, I don't give a rip about. It's a killing in Everett and just bringing their dynasty up there, man. They're just the aquasox or the stick, dude, the Bronx bombers up there, man, just dynasty. I don't care. All I care about is hanging banners out in Seattle. Like, that's all that matters. So I don't care that you're building some awesome farm system from the ground. I'm who cares if it doesn't translate to Seattle. Yep, 100%. That is a well said statement. And there are our farm teams are. Look at the, look at the Modesto nuts. They might be the most electric team in all of baseball. Like literally might be the most electric team in all of professional baseball. You know, at least in America, in the United States. Who cares? I live 45 minutes away from that stadium. I don't care that they're good. I think they're fun. I think they are, you know, a fun watch. I like seeing our exciting prospects. I don't give a rip if they win. Couldn't care less. So that has to translate into Mariners wins. If it doesn't, who cares? Yep. And here's the thing. You made one big swing when you got Castillo. Do you miss Marte? Do you miss Noebe Marte? Do you miss Edwin Arroyo? Do you even know what they're doing now? Edwin Arroyo is not even the major leagues. We traded him two years ago. He's not even good in the minor leagues. Do we miss him? Noebe Marte got dinged for steroids and has barely gotten a cup of coffee in the major leagues. That was two years ago. Do we miss? We gave up for Polanco. Those guys are doing nothing. Like so many of these packages, they're like, "Oh, we're giving up the form." And it's like, you know what? We gave up a acorn. You know, like forget the form. We gave up nothing. The argument to go for it. No, I'm just thinking about it. Do you miss, you know, there's two prospects. Are you sitting there wishing like, "Oh man, I wish we had, you know, whatever." I don't even know what the picture we gave up. Like, yeah, Williamson, like, I don't even, like, exactly. Like, I don't-- Like, other direction too on this, right? Like, you know what we could use right now? Edwin's stinking Diaz, you know, we could use right now. Like, that theory, like, shoot. Robin's, you know, in the Mexican league, might be better than Polanco right now. Anyway, we didn't even do a Kellen again anyways. Like, I mean, at some level here, it's like, "Geez, Louise." I don't know. And of course, you can't, that logic eventually will fall short. But yeah, yeah, yeah. The one time you made the playoffs, you made a big swing. Yeah. Like, that's the one time you've actually done what you set out to do and accomplished your goal. Was getting aggressive at the deadline. Why are you hesitant? It's the one thing that's worked. I don't get it. I mean, I'm not saying he is. Maybe he is, you know, there are rumors that apparently we're, you know, you know, talking about Vlad with the Blue Jays. I'll believe it when I see it. But just like-- Couldn't be more excited. Let's go. Yeah. But the thing that also would, Jerry, you got to stare down. You just mentioned a bunch of the guys last year, man. You know, with your, with your O'Keeves and your stinking, you know, AJ Pollock's. It's like, that didn't work. And then this year, I'm just going to go down some names, man. And this is, Jerry's seat should be very hot. Because you want to talk about, if he doesn't make a swing, if there's no other move to be the move we think of when we think about this year, if we don't get a, Robert, if we don't get a parade, if we don't get a flat. Well, let me just ask you, I'm just going to ask you, yes or no, did this deal work? What did it, did it work? Not good process, good result. That's what I was, that's the only filter message, the result. Right. Did Pollock go work? No. Did Garver work? No. Did Mitch Haniger work? Ooh. Did Jared Kellenik getting rid of him? Did that help us? Mm. No, no, it didn't help us. No. Sontos. Getting rid of the car. Like no wiring. Sontos. Nope, nope, didn't work. Stanik. Kind of? No, he's not worth his contract. It's got like a four-year array, right? And the overall idea of, you know, brash has not been replaced adequately. You know, both of those guys should have, but I just want two, three, four, five. That's seven acquisitions that you would say none of them have been an unequivocal success. You didn't even say you didn't talk about Rayleigh. Rayleigh? Yeah, I mean. Would you, who would you rather have right now? Rayleigh or Caballero? Who would you rather have right now? Robbie Ray or Mitch Haniger? Yeah, that's what I'm saying, man. Uh, that's an easy one. Yeah. I mean, you're telling me-- It's like a no-hitter right now. I mean, you're telling me we got Robbie Ray that frees up woo to, I mean, that's an easy trade. You know, easy thing to trade. Now it's like, well, I mean, then we have to go to Hancock. I mean, his Logan Evans is going to be ready. Like, eh, if you got Robbie Ray right now, I mean, now we're, now we're cooking. I mean, yeah, it's a bad trade. Yep. Good process. Who cares? I don't care about the, I mean, I'm way past process at this point. Yep. Yep. Yep. You can have good process better results, but you're not allowed to have like 17 better results. You know, you can say, you know, we did this analogy with Jay, you know, it's like, hey, if you're a restaurant, and you know, I don't, you can get the best sourced ingredients and get it from the most awesome farm, and you've got the best grills that are going to cook this, you know, this chicken up, and it's going to be awesome, you know, and then you've got the best recipes from the best people, and it's just, oh, yes, it's great. But you just keep serving raw chicken, and it just keeps poisoning people, and people keep puking in the bathroom, and it's like, at some point, it's like, dude, you can't keep doing that, and you can't just keep it. Well, it's a good process. We get the chicken, and we, you know, we got, we have a thermometer, and we temper it, and you know, we have the oil, and we temper, and we got it at the exact temperature, and you know, we got this great recipe, and it's like, at some point, that doesn't matter. At some point, you keep poisoning people, and at some point, Jerry, your process, at some point, you have to say it sucks. Well, because the results aren't good. I can't say you're a great chicken restaurant if you're giving me, you know, like food poisoning. At some point, you can't say you have a good process when you have the worst offense in baseball. End of story. Yep, and it's time to change the philosophy. You know, remember the Titans? Change the way we win. Change the way we walk. Change the way we tackle, you know. It's like, it's time to change your philosophy, because whatever you're doing isn't working. You're able to build a farm great, but who cares? It's time to translate that, and make those farm assets into a major league product. And you don't just have to develop those guys. Some of that is going to revolve around trading. So we need to do that right now. And I don't even, why are we waiting? Like, I mean, what is the next six days? Like, I mean, what is going on? It's not like we need these guys, man. You know, Julio, JP, all our best players are available right now. We can just buy at our time. We've got this big 10 game lead. You know, we can just, you know, buy at our time here. Yeah. Castillo wasn't, I don't understand. Like, I don't understand. There, like, how is there not a team out there that is willing to give us anything? Like, there has to, like, have we not gotten something at this point? Like, we need anything to happen. Like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. So as we land the plan here, Sean, we're both in agreement kind of across the board here. One, we both think, because a lot of the art, the, if you get on X right now, you're on Twitter right now, the conversation is, do you, you know, fire? Scott, we're both in agreement. Yes. We're both in agreement. Right now we would. Where we're, where we all sort of agreement is, what do you do with Depoto? We'll find out. We'll find out in the next week, what we do at Deoto. Either you swing for the fences and, hey, you get a longer leash or you don't, and regime change. So we're both in lockstep on that. Any last thoughts on before we get out of here, next is the Chicago White Sox, correct? Yeah. And we're facing Fedi and Crochet. Yep. So best case scenarios, both of those guys get traded, and we don't face them. Because when the White Sox have those two pitchers going, they're like a okay team. When they don't have those teams going, or those players going, they're like historically awful. Do you think our offense is bad? They're just as bad. So, um, yeah. It's not like TV. It's going to be lost, watch TV. If you're not watching the Mariners right now, I don't blame you. And honestly, can I be perfectly honest? If we weren't doing this podcast, I would just be checking scores, man. Like I'm watching this out of respect for just like, hey, I started something. So I'm just going to keep going with it. But like, I, and I have to watch because if I didn't, then I wouldn't have anything to talk about. And like, you know, doing this podcast has been fun. But like, if we weren't doing this podcast, I don't know if I could bring myself to watch this team. No, I'd be full on, you already know I'm fighting everything, and I don't have to go full training camp with the Seahawks. So I would say it every year is like, Mariners, your job is to get me to August 1st. And this year they, they're barely even doing that. So, yeah, it's, uh, we may be shifting over to, no matter what, we're going to shift over to some Seahawks content. But the Mariners are not giving us any reason to watch games right now. Yeah, but on the flip force us to watch the game, like make me here. On the flip side, yeah. On the flip side, when the Mariners were really bad, like in the 2011, 2012, I still watched every game. So who am I kidding? Yeah, yeah. Well, next up is the White Sox. We keep saying it can't go any lower. They always can't. It always can. And so, oh man, buckle up fans. This episode, hopefully at the end of the day was therapeutic. It was, it made you feel like you're not alone. You're not going crazy as you're watching something that just is brutal to watch. So thanks for giving us a listen again. My name is Stephen Collins. My brother Sean Collins. This is the Collins It like it is podcast. Like, share, subscribe, send us in any questions. We'll answer them in any episode you jump in. Some episodes, man, it's like this. And that's been a lot of Mariners content lately. I would love to fire up an emergency podcast when they make some big trade and we can get excited and have a reason to watch. Jerry, give me a reason to watch this team. Scott, give me a reason to watch this team. Mariners, give me a reason to watch you. Show some fights. Show some grit. Have some professional pride. Let's turn this thing around and make this a competitive race. Cause right now, this team is not competitive. Let's turn around and get competitive again. At the very least, let's at least have that bar. So Sean, we're signing off. Any last words you got? No, I got nothing. That's it. Over and outs. See ya. [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]