(upbeat music) You're listening to the FitMind FitBody podcast where we explore the connection between running and positive mental health. We do this by talking to runners from all walks of life who generously share their experiences with us. So you don't miss an episode, I've created an email list for you to join. Check the show notes for more details. Without further ado, I am your host, Michelle Frost. Let's get moving. (upbeat music) Today we have an amazing guest, someone that I've known for quite a long time. Dr. Corinna Fife. Corinna is not only a dedicated runner, but also a GP from here in Tasmania. Her journey from running as a young girl to balancing her career, her family, and competitive running is truly inspiring. In this episode, Corinna shares how running helped to manage the stress of studying medicine and why it's such a powerful tool for mental health. She also offers some fantastic tips for runners of all levels from starting slow and staying consistent, to finding joy in the process and joining a supportive community. Corinna's story is about more than just running. It's about resilience, balance, and finding happiness in the journey. So lace up your shoes and get ready to be inspired. Let's dive into the conversation with Corinna. Enjoy. Today I'm bit mine, bit buddy. I am excited to introduce you all to Corinna Fife. I've known Corinna for many years, but we've never really sat down and had like an in-depth conversation. So I'm super excited to do this. Welcome, Corinna. - Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. - It is an absolute pleasure. Like I was saying before, I know your family, and I suppose we live in Tasmania. It's everybody knows everybody. (laughing) The opportunity to talk to you. Yeah, it's really a delight. I really am excited to get to know you a little bit more so thanks for jumping on. It's awesome. - Absolutely. - Let's start a little bit, get to know a bit about you, about your background. So where did you grow up? Not everybody knows, you know? (laughing) Your family? - Sure. (laughing) - Sorry, so I grew up in Tasmania. So we grew up on a small town in high school, going to Gary's about half an hour outside of one sister. - I didn't know that one. - Yeah. - But yes, I went to half school at least in one sister. And yeah, I've always been a runner, basically, forever. (laughing) - Can you remember as a child what it was like, like running for you at school? - Yeah, so, I mean, I, so my story to our sisters and we all did athletics from the earliest age possible. So I was there as a little toddler doing the toddler race every week. (laughing) - Are you the oldest or the youngest or? - I'm the youngest, the youngest, yep. So I was there, yes, from, yeah, from when I was very small and I, even from that young age I knew what a race was about and for the other little toddlers, you know, might not leave the start line, but I was helping on getting to that finish line. (laughing) So, yes, I've completely been a runner. - Yeah, I think, yes, there's always been a competitive side to me. (laughing) - Are you siblings like that too, are they competitive? - They are, yes. I'm probably not quite to the extremes that I am. My middle sister Sarah plays a lot of hockey and, you know, she's gotten back into that after having kids and, you know, speaking about setting Queens where she was now in the master's teams and things like that. So yes, she's definitely competitive and Emma, yeah, probably not quite as competitive as Sarah and I, but still has it there. And, you know, you can see when she comes along to pass on and being seen as she's always motivated to better herself and to do the best it's become. - So when you were growing up, was there a competition amongst the three of you as well? - No, not that I really remember being competitive with my sisters, no. I think they used to exploit my competitiveness. They used to make me do things and say, "I'll tell you." (laughing) And that was it, let me cross the lines, sorry. - How fast can you put the rubbish out? (laughing) - Yeah, basically, yeah, yeah. I need something to have, I'll tell you. - I love it, I love it. - Yeah, so I don't think we were directly competitive against each other. (laughing) - So at school, can you remember what you felt about, you know, like when we have like school carnivals and things like that? Was it something you look forward to? 'Cause often, you know, even on the podcast, when we're talking to runners, people will reflect and they'll say, "Oh, I actually really didn't like, "you know, that environment at school. "Were you into that? "Are you, do you remember what you thought about it?" - No, I think I love the school carnivals. Yeah, I can, yeah, family school. I mean, obviously that was very casual affairs that I definitely enjoyed the school carnivals and I couldn't remember, you know, doing the school cross country and then going to the next level, the regional cross country and the state cross country. - A representative, yeah, yeah. But I can remember doing that even in primary school. And yeah, so, yeah, I guess that, yeah, so I've always been competitive, but I can guess that's been, you know, something that has been motivated for me. But I did really enjoy it, you know, I'm really loved. I loved what I, you know, enjoyed doing the swimming carnivals as well as just the running, but running, I had a more natural affinity for them. - Someone said the other day who was good as well when they were kids, they said, they could recognize that one of the reasons they really loved it was because they were good. You know, as opposed to, you know, so that really was a driver, like you just said, I mean, it goes a bit of a motivator for why one of the reasons you liked it. - Yeah, I think that's very true. I think, you know, you've drawn to the things that you're naturally good at. And yeah, I think that's part of it. I enjoyed it. I was good at it. You know, had those lots of positive feedback, I guess, at a young age, so. - Yeah, that's interesting. Now, at school, do you, you went on, and I know you've gone on and done further study, did you find, well, number one, did you keep you running up through school and then through, I know that you did, so it feels like a silly question. Through school and then then into university, tell everyone what you went on and studied and where they're running, do you think helped you in those periods? 'Cause it's quite stressful the career that you chose. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I studied medicine and have since become a general practitioner, so JP. I did, yeah, I guess so, I ran all three high schools. And through high school, I was, you know, pretty serious with my running and doing, you know, competing at states and nationals, you know, every year and various, you know, cross-country and on-track, et cetera. And I can remember getting to the end of grade 12 and just with, you know, the study load, as well as the training and competing, I was probably a bit burnt out and I remember being, you know, really feeling like I needed a break and I did take, I took a bit of a step back at the end of grade 12 and didn't compete for a few years. So I went to Monash University in Melbourne. So I went, you know, straight the next year after finishing grade 12, it went across to start university. And I was still running, but just for fitness but not competing. It was a few years, I think I can, yeah. I can't remember what drove me exactly to get back into competitive running, but I did after a few years off. I think I just felt like I needed, I guess like another focus in life. So, you know, when I was, yeah, something that wasn't study, that kind of gave me purpose outside of study. And I think actually, I think it was a conversation where they, it's one of the lectures at university. I don't remember how it all came out, but I remember him sort of saying, oh, it's, you know, it's really nice that you're a good runner at high school, but like nobody really cares anymore. If you want to be ready to be good runner now. Like, it's kind of made me think, oh, yeah, okay, I really, you know, it's a waste not to be, you know, continuing to put effort into it. And that kind of gave me a little bit of a kick at the moment. I thought, okay, I'm going to go back and I'm going to join a club and get back into more competitive running. So I did. And so, yeah, I still ran all the way through university. I joined quite happily after this club. And that was sort of just a chance that they happened to be really dominant clubs. I've got a bit of success running with them for the cross country. So it was sort of the team, one, you know, several years in a row, which was nice to be involved with. But yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's no, I've not had any long periods of time where I hadn't run outside injury, I guess. So the competitive, like the pressure of the, you know, studying medicine and then the pressure of the competing versus just, you know, running for fitness, like you said, yeah, but you were happy to add that, you know, even after a couple of years of study by the sound of it, you were missing it. Yeah, I think I was missing it. Yeah, that's all right. I think it was just a lack of your purpose. Yeah, I think I, yeah, I just think, so I don't know, like I wasn't, yeah, wasn't giving it my all, I guess, if I was just running around. Yeah, I guess, you know, miss getting out and competing and miss having, you know, those team, the team element and, you know, having something that you're working towards and goals and that sort of thing. So, yeah, I think that, yeah, I really enjoy having, having that component of running there as a side focus from, you know, separate from work and study and whatever else is going on in life. What do you think drives you? 'Cause it's quite, you know, it's quite a driven career and quite, you're running a still quite competitive, like, and you were pretty competitive, you know, so it's, there's a drive that takes to keep that up, you know, you could have just gone, I'll just take a step back and yes, I'll still run for fitness and I'll do some fun runs here and there, but I won't think about time or, you know, you could, you could have chosen other parts, but you didn't. - Yeah, that's very true. Yeah, I think there's several things that drive me. I mean, yes, I'm competitive, that's part of it, but I do just genuinely, really enjoy running and, you know, I really love going out and, you know, pushing myself and, you know, the older, how you feel after you've had a good heart at first. And I'm still striving to, you know, run, PDs and run, you know, faster than I had in the fast work. I haven't currently injured, so that's slightly on the cause at the moment, but it's been the, the desires around the past is still there. - That's where I saw you at the physio. - That's where I saw you at the physio. - Anyway, I can't go. - Unfortunately. - Yeah, I don't know, I think, I just love, I just love it. I just love, I love training, I love racing. And I, yeah, I love having, you know, that other focus in life, that's, you know, not, yeah, something that I've chosen in Korea, that, you know, a lot of people could completely just, like, their whole lives, too. But that's not, that's not me, sort of, you know, I love my running just so much of that. (laughing) - I mean, I don't know if I'm saying the wrong thing, but it probably makes you a better GP in some ways because you have these other dimensions. Like, nobody's one faceted anyway, but it does give you this other dimension. - Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know about that. But I think it definitely gives me a different outlook on life. And, you know, people, you know, there's lots of different styles of GP's out there and gravitate to a style of GP that suits them. (laughing) - I know I used to go to one that was a runner all the time. (laughing) - Yeah, being good, yeah. - At least he won't look at me like I'm crazy when I say. - Yeah. (laughing) - And I know I'm not resting. (laughing) I'm running, whatever. It's quite funny. When you were at uni, can, like, I'm always interested by the studies that I've read about the improvement in the ability to study, for, like, how a brain works because we're staying fit and healthy. So, you know, you would have seen these studies, but the direct correlation between someone who goes out and does a run in the morning and then sits down and studies or does an exam or whatever, straight after. It's, you know, all the stuff that's going on in our brain neural pathways and things. Can you, I mean, yeah, the thing is for someone like you who's kind of literally never really stopped running, even if you didn't compete all the time, maybe you don't know what it's like to not have that ability to tap into it. - Yeah, yeah, it's a good point that you make 'cause yes, I never really have stopped. It's always, yeah, it's always, I've not known any different. So, but I know how, even if I just got a day without running or exercising how that affects me, if I'm a mental health point of view. So, I can imagine that it would not see a positive thing to not have it there. And I often, I'm not actually a morning runner. I'm learning to be a morning out, but I've always really enjoyed the role of running as a day stress after a day of study or work. Like I just love that you can kind of go out for a run and just put this real separation between your workday and the evening and, you know, others might come home, you know, tired and grumpy and you take that through into the evening, but I love, yeah, go for a run. Completely clear and you hit a total reset and then you have some nice evening and then, yeah. Go back to start again. - I've heard a few people say that they do that. They literally will run home a few times a week at least because it's like they can leave it all at work and don't come into it. - Yeah, put your runners on. - Bring everything home, kind of stuff. - Yeah, yeah, it's a real cleansing, I guess. Yeah, so I don't encourage people to give it a go 'cause I think, yeah, it does, yeah, makes your evening so much more enjoyable having kind of cleansed the stress of your day away. - That was really interesting. Especially for me, afternoon running only really works when I've had a group to run with because at the end of the day, it's like, "Oh, so many other things to do." And, you know, it all sort of piles up. Whereas if I get it done in the morning, it feels like, you know, now I've set my day up. So my brain tends to work that way around. - Yeah, I can definitely see both of those set in the first and I think since having me filled in my daughter. Yes, I'm becoming more of a morning runner because you just have to get in and get it done when you can and just last get that little bit harder to juggle. - And predictable. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So tell me what was that like? How did you go through your pregnancy and then coming out the other side with your running? Did that affect your running? - Yeah, sorry. It was, so when we decided we were gonna have a little traffic family was just at the end of COVID and it was a bit of a disappointing time, I guess, in terms of running because I'd had like a long period of really consistent running and I was probably a speeder by the end of the game and I had, yeah. No, very okay. - Or maybe what? - Or maybe what. - Yes, I had been paid up to do the gold post marathon and then was to do marathon and then take a step back from running into our family but the marathon got canceled like on the Tuesday before the grass was meant to be on the Sunday. - I think I spoke to Soho. - Cass, I would demonstrate it. - It was, yeah. I put it in a lot of very disappointed people because we've done the whole build up by that point and it was on the back of just so many race cancellations. So I think I'd train for that right now because it all got canceled through that time period. So that was, yeah, I mean, that was disappointing. And then it was getting pregnant for us was not the easiest being, it took us a little while and I really, really cut back on my running class significantly in that process. I was running over a hundred times away can kind of went down to maybe 30 or 40 or something. - So that was in order to be able to concede like that? Like what you thought it would help, yeah. - Yeah, exactly, yeah, who knows in the end. But, and then so through pregnancy, I did still run just very gently and I sort of walked jobs quite a bit. But I kept running right up until I think 37 weeks, 38 weeks or something like that. So early on, and I was just lucky that physically my body held up okay. I didn't have any pelvic pain or anything that was holding me back. So, yeah, so then had to take, I had a cesarean and had to have, you know, the rest recovery after that. And then we got back into my running and I had, we had set some goals that were probably a little bit foolish because my husband and I really wanted to do Chicago marathon this year. So the total was born in 2023, but we had to qualify. So we both wanted to run Melbourne marathon in 2023, which was six months to the day after the material was born. - Mm-hmm. - Correct, so- - And you did a good time. - Well, yeah, yeah. Well, it was the other time it wasn't so much of the challenge for me. I was just getting and running under the, my body ought to be able to complete this. - Do it, yeah. - So, you know, and that was a bit rocky, the recovery, my pelvis did combine a bit, trying to get back into running. First time I had a lot of pubic synthesis going stress and, you know, it would have appreciated if I had not been trying to do a marathon. (laughing) That we got there and we did it. (laughing) - Oh, yeah, that's awesome. - And we both, yeah, my husband and I both got the qualifying time. My husband got it by 16 seconds. (laughing) - Well, he was much more challenging than mine. So yeah, I've got that going, which is great. But yeah, that was, yeah, the, yeah, I guess the driving, the driving, the focus for the first six months of getting back into running was to try and get, you know, get it up to do this marathon, which we did. And then I could kind of, yeah, take a step back after that and then run a rebuild and focus on actually getting, I guess, race fit again to do, you know, 5K, 10K, half an hour at once with speed and things. So that, yeah, and I've got back into things over the summer and things were going along OK, but I've picked up an injury, so. - When's Chicago? I should know things like that. - Chicago, you did October. - Yeah. - Yeah, but unfortunately, it's probably not going to happen anymore, but, you know, we did everything that we could. (laughing) - So your injuries, it's not a good injury. It's not a recovery in a few weeks, injury. - No, unfortunately, I mean, I'm not 100% sure about the process it's going to be, but I've got a tear in my leg when I'm back here, so it's a cartilage problem. It's not likely to heal when it's going. - Oh, I can absolutely think of Mentora. - Yeah, they're a bone or something that will just rest and we'll get better. Yeah, so unfortunately, I'm waiting to see a surgeon to talk about getting a repair, didn't it? - Damn. - Then we'll go from there. - Will you both go over and you're just what? - I think, no, I think we're just going to pull the pain completely. - Oh, I think it's just in seconds though. - I know, I know, but as we get older, the qualifying time gets easier, so. - Oh, okay, so there's plenty more in the future. - Yeah. - You guys are still pretty young, I'm very young. - Yeah. - So you've got plenty more running ahead. What would be in your running history, what would be some of the things that you look back most fondly upon when you're running Journey? - Definitely, yeah, I mean, there's so many things. I guess, like, the things that I hope was lucky enough to represent Australia at the World University, cross-country championships in Uganda. So that's fantastic to be able to wear on Australian Singles. - So good. - That might not even happen again. So, yeah, that was definitely a highlight. And then, yeah, just from the local races that I've been able to do, so. You know, even races are quite critical down the way back, which I've done a few turns. And yeah, it's always been a fantastic community event since, yeah, so great to be able to be out there and to be able to do that fashion treatment. And then, you know, running, yeah, through, you know, running, as I mentioned earlier, running with Glen Huntley at the club in Victoria, who, you know, the cross-country season in Victoria is, it's a big event. There's, like, there's thousands of runners that go and it's just a fantastic environment. SPM's been really fun to be involved in that team, so, you know, cause, probably run with empatinees in the end, I guess. - Oh, wow. - Yeah, so, yeah, that was lovely to always be, you know, involved with that club. And I mean, I'm similarly, you know, running for, you know, the heavy carbs when I was a junior, but I guess my memory of that is not as crisp cause it's getting a long time ago in Africa. - Sure, yes, you're so odd, no, not at all. I did think, it was something I meant to ask you before when we were talking about your childhood. I know both your parents are quite athletic and they quite, you know, they've always, you know, even as, you know, they're only a little bit older than me. And I'm in my 50s and my understanding of both of them is they've always been, you know, into running or cycling or triathlons or whatever they're doing. But do you think that was an influence on you girls? - Yeah, definitely, definitely. I think, I think, it's actually something as an adult, and I feel quite lucky that my parents were active, that, you know, they, you know, went out for rounds and they played sport, they, you know, really set that as a normal part of life to be active on a daily basis. I think it's something I feel very lucky to have had that. So I know a lot of families exercising regularly is more of a foreign concept to me. - It's like an adult, you become an adult, like sport is for when you're a kid or before you have your own kids. And then it's sort of, yeah, there's a cold group in our culture that just seem to think, you know, once you have kids. - I know we're trying to step away. - Yeah, you just look after the kids and you don't do your own thing, you know. - Yeah, yeah, which is not, not what was modelled. And I definitely think that's, that's changing with, even watching, you know, the, like the, the elite Australian distance runners at the moment, like there are so many now that have had children in return to the sport and are, you know, returned at a really high level. And that's, yeah, it's really showing that it's certainly possible, it's certainly not, you know, have children and hang out in your shoes kind of thing. - Well, I think Parkland too is probably having a big influence just on the broader community when it comes to like, we can all go and do this thing together that would, you know, normally be considered a kids thing or younger kids. - Yeah, that's right. Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's just normalizing that, you know, you have the, always people from all different walks of life are coming out every Saturday and going for a run and enjoying and, you know, being, and getting the benefits of being active and that, you know, it's really lovely to see, you know, a big community of people doing that regularly. - Can you think when you first called yourself a runner in your head? - I, I didn't know, I didn't think part of my identity because I was so young. As I say, yeah, I was even through primary school. I was, I was already the runner, I guess. And I think I made the, it was the Pacific school games. Was there, I think it may still be an event and I think I made the team for that when I was in grade six, or six, I think. Yeah, that was, you know, that might have been, you know, through Hassel kept the scrapbook with the newspaper quick things and things like that was like the first and then that they were the newspaper article about it. So that was the first time I think I probably can remember being, oh yes, this is. - I'm a runner. - Yeah, yeah, this is my thing. - Love it. So when you do get into it, how do you deal with it? You know, when we, when we wrap our identity, obviously we're all multifaceted and we're not just one thing. But when we wrap a large part of our identity around something that an injury causes us to stop for a while, how do you deal with that? - Yeah, well, I can say I don't do it well, I don't think I necessarily do. I think, yeah, like this is an injury in particular. And I think with any injury, it's kind of like a period of grief where, you know, you come to terms with the fact that yes, you don't have to take a step back and, you know, give up on whatever race it was that you were, you know, had your eyes on or that sort of thing. So I think I'm learning that, you know, it's okay to be a bit sad for a while. And then even police are together. - Get on with it. - And get on with it exactly. Yeah, I find other things to focus on, you know, make a plan, having a plan helps having, you know, knowing, you know, yes, I'm gonna take this period of time off and then I'm gonna, this plan of getting back into it. And while I can't run, I'm gonna focus on strength or I'm gonna have, you know, cross train or do whatever it is that I'm allowed to do or can do. 'Cause I think, yes, it is to keep them, you run every day and it's such a part of your routine, part of your every day. I was sort of thinking of like, you know, if you had somebody who was addicted to something else and you took it away from them softly, like, I would probably be a bit grumpy. (laughing) Like, running is kind of an addiction in terms of, if my brain is very used to getting that heat of endorphin every day and I can take that away, I'm just tired of all that. - What's it gonna be? - What's it gonna be? - Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah. So, but the take a little while to get you, you know, to find your new routine that's gonna keep your mind happy and get your body, you know, happy while you're recovering. And yeah, it's funny what it is that you can do that kind of sticks from those boxes, don't run anywhere. - It seems like a strange question to ask you, but how long do you think you'll run for in your life? - Well, I'd like to, you know, run until I'm old. - At least as old as me. - Oh, no, no, no. - Even on. - Oh, no. - Oh, I'm thinking like, everything. - Oh, I'm planning, I did a thing the other day, we had to do like a meditation, we were looking at our future self, and I was 103, the person that I imagined, and I was still learning. (laughing) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - There you go. - There's a girl flea. - Sorry, it's totally met, hopefully. Yeah, 'cause I can get this kick fix up to any problem, but of course, I'd love to be able to run, you know, forever, if somebody allows it. Yeah, even, I mean, my mum's partner is 75, and he's still running regularly. - I love him. - It's just amazing to see, so. - It is, it's so good. You're running right now, obviously. Are you able to run it all with the hip, or is it no running at all? - Yeah. - Thank you, Karina. (laughing) - Well, my physio has allowed, has said I can keep running. - Yeah, I like those kind of physios. - It's good that it does hurt to run, but unfortunately, every step is kind of cool. - Okay. - Which makes it not, not that enjoyable, but I do, I have still been trying to run, but that will see. (laughing) - That's why you might have a different opinion. - When do you go to your surgeon? Is that, - In a short time. - I'll put you like, yes, at three o'clock this afternoon. (laughing) - Keep on like, yeah. - When you're not injured, what does your typical running week look like? Like, you don't have to, like, super detailed, but what is your typical running week look like? - Yeah, so I guess I'm trying to do like two sessions and a long run and then easy running on the other day. So generally it would be at the moment or around work, I've been sort of doing a split easy run on Monday and Thursday. So just do like half an hour, 35 minutes in the morning and similar in the evening. And then Tuesday, I'm very lucky my mum babysits material to my daughter for me while I would do a session normally, so go back up with it. And we have often had a bit of a group to run me. So on Tuesday morning, which has been really lovely. We're going to do, yeah, sessions. So that might be like five or six minute reps or okay, we're not going to go reps or that kind of thing. And then Wednesday, I was trying to do a midweek long run. I was trying to do coordination hours 'cause it wasn't long that long, but a long issue. And then Thursday, do the split easy run Friday morning. I've been trying to do a longer session. So like tempo threshold type stuff, like 30 minutes work. Kind of thing. And then easy run on Saturday. Unless I'm doing part run, then I switch those two proud on Saturday and then long run on Sunday. - That's like, that's seven days. - Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was seven days. - Yeah, I do normally, ideally run every day. - Do you do strength work? - Like as well, I don't know. - Yeah, I do. I'm gonna actually think maybe the strength work has irritated my hips, but anyway. - Of course my hands are spring-ish, yeah. - Oh, there you go, yeah, okay. - I was trying to keep up with my daughter though, so that was, I know exactly what had happened. Anyway, okay. - Yeah, so I was, I had been doing this like kind of a body weight strength work for very specific video-guarded exercises. And yes, I had recently done the gym to do some stronger lifting and yeah, yeah. - Go so well, sorry. - Oh, I'm so sorry. - Do you have a coach or do you coach yourself? - No, I coach myself. Yeah, I've actually, yeah, I haven't had a coach since I finished, since I left high school, but I used to try this, I played and I'm back in, I think in high school, but no. I think a better or worse, I know I've just touched myself just because we'd work and study. I was just, I struggled to maintain a consistent schedule and I just thought I'd be too hard for somebody to coach and try to do my own thing. And now I do actually do a little bit more in coaching work for other people. - Awesome, can you? - Years of experience now, but I keep thinking, I think that will be my next step, so I recover from this current problem, running injury, would be to get a coach, because I think there's definitely benefit in handing the reins over to somebody else. - I've had a coach, I did the 101, gone nuts, what was actually 103 Ks earlier this year. And I got Amy, Amy Lampert coached me, which it was really nice to just, as you said, hand over the reins, you know, to have someone else say, "This is what you're doing this week, "and this is what you're doing." Didn't have to think about it, just had to work out how to put it in my calendar, but that was about it, and that was actually really nice, I really enjoyed it. Anyway, I plucked for coaches right there. - Yeah, yeah. - What kind of goals can you see in the next sort of 10 years that you want to hit? What kind of running, I guess, are they speed goals, are they distances, do you want to do trail stuff, do you want to do road stuff? What do you see over the next decade? - Yeah, I think I'm still, well, yes, I want to be healthy, so, first and foremost. I definitely still want to run PBs on the road. So, yeah, the marathon is the big one. I just really feel like I had not nailed, not had a successful marathon. Yes, and I'd really, really like to run faster than I have over the marathon, so that's probably the big one. And I'd love to run faster if I have 10,000 half marathon, if I can. - Yeah, I think long term, like I'd love to do an ultra, but certainly, yeah, that's a lighter down the track goal, I think, once I, no, if I can't reach the point where I can't, I don't want to run fast anymore. - Is that like a trail type thing, you're thinking, or a road ultra? - Yeah, I am a bit scared of trail running because, oh God, dodgy ankles. I've damaged my ankle through rolling it about a million times in the past, and I don't know how I'd go over trails, because it just, it's so unstable, I just roll it whenever I'm on the road, basically, sorry. - So, you don't think it would, you know, for a period of time, carefully, strengthen it a little, because you are having to be so nimble, I guess, that's the one. - Because I can do wood health, I don't know, I just, at the moment, I really never thought trails, because I do almost without, okay, I'll roll my ankles on a trail, 'cause I think I've just got no looking at the left in my ankle on it. I've realised I'm absolutely stabilised it, so if I just lose focus, even for a moment, it's at risk of rolling it, so. - Since I'm strapping. - Yeah, I can have me just grab it. Every run, every run on the trails, basically. - Crazy. - So, yeah, I probably will at one point, and again, I'm like, if I slow down, and try not to run fast, then I'll probably be fine. - That's where most of us end up, like. (laughs) On the trails, because it's more forgiving. You know, when we're not chasing speed so much anymore, it often tends to be that, you know, one of the next thing, okay, how far can I go? Oh, look, you can go in trails, and you can go walk up the hills and jog down, try not to fall over, as you said. - Yeah, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, I'm sure I'll end up, and there's so many beautiful trails, I do have to build it a bit sad, but I'm not, you know, entrenched in the trail running community, but I'm not ready, so I'm not ready to give the roads that just yet. (laughs) - Oh, I'm still like, I'm now trying to convince you to run on trails. We have plenty of trails, you know, like down in, what's it, three capes track, for example, where it's more like a park. I don't know if you've done the three capes track, but the path itself is, you know. - Lovely. - Yeah, like, you could roll the ankle anywhere, but it's not, it's just like going on a road in some ways, but a bit more gravel, but yeah. - Yeah, absolutely. - That'd be like soft introduction too, it's an easy trail. - Yeah, I think that's what I need, groom the trail. - Yeah, exactly. - That's my hard part. - My house had always complained about that path, because he's like gnarly bush walk a man, and, you know, if you can walk two or three abreast, and not hardly have to lift up your foot, he thinks that's a bit, yeah, it's like going to be, what do you say, the botanical gardens, like for a walk in the middle gardens, 'cause it's all so well looked after. Anyway. - But it's very accessible, so it has its roots. - It does. - No, I think that's amazing, it's beautiful. As an example, we talked a little bit before about being an example, the great example you had for your parents, from your parents, and your mum's partner as well. - Can you reflect now on what you see for the future for you and Matilda? And you're your husband and Matilda? Like, can you see that that's a thing in your head? - Yeah, that makes sense. - Yeah, yeah, I'd love to see, you know, to be able to be running at an age where she can come along and cheer me on and remember it. And I think, yeah, like my husband has been getting into running more and more, and I think he also, you know, would love to be the family that every, you know, every family holiday is off somewhere, to run a marathon from around the world. Yeah, I think, yeah, that's something I'd love to be able to do, you know, take the family along and, you know, be really setting that example for her. And, you know, she may or may not want to go into running, but if she wants to do any sport, 'cause it's perfectly fine on me. - Yeah, it's just that having an example, whether it's running or anything, it's just that moving, isn't it? That I'm an adult and just because I'm growing up, like we said before, I'm still moving and doing something like that for myself. So, hopefully kids learn from that example. - Yeah, that's it. And I think as well, I know I've heard L.A. is welling, sort of saying it's the Australian, I wouldn't think that, but I'm just setting that example of being, if we can do hard things. But, you know, it's, yeah, like, you can set your mind to go and do it, it doesn't matter that it's hard, it's kind of the point that you do it because it's hard. - In fact, on this podcast, we talk a lot about getting uncomfortable. And even after I did the 101 earlier in the year, my big thing for that was exactly that. Like, I can do hard things, you know, that was sort of what it taught me. The biggest lesson and maybe in this life where we're all getting too comfortable, like how everything that we do in our modern world is about getting more comfortable, whether you're sitting at home, ordering your groceries or pressing the remote control or whatever it is you're doing. We don't, we hardly have to move. - Yeah. - So, very true. - Finding ways to get out of that. Anyway, philosophically, I love those kinds of things. When you are running, what sort of things are you thinking about? Like, you don't have to give us details, but what sort of goes through your head when you're running? - I mean, I must admit, I listen to a lot of podcasts when I run, so, so yeah, a lot of the time I guess I'm just being entertained and enjoying that time, myself. - What sort of podcast do you just like? - I love running one car. - Oh, of course, absolutely. (laughing) - Inside running is my favorite. - Like a mission. - Any running one car? - Okay, running and other things are running. Talk about running. - Well, you can, there's, we've got 300 and something episodes fit my new body you can talk into. - I need to get me entertained. - A bunch of people you know, sort of. - Yeah. - And some of you don't, can learn some more stories. So, you're listening to podcasts. Sometimes, I find when I listen to podcasts, I tune out sometimes though, find my brain goes off and I'm thinking about something as well. - Yeah. - I think so, I, which is why running podcasts is good because it doesn't actually, like if I try to listen to something educational, you know, and then I zone out and then I miss half of it and then it's so smooth. It's not helpful as I get to say. - It doesn't matter if I zone out of my running podcast for a little bit. - Yeah. I don't think about anything in particular. I think sometimes I just, you know. You know, try to be appreciative of the environment and you know, notice the sunrise or notice how you feel and that sort of thing. When I'm trying to train and I'm fast, then I think it's kind of time to stay relaxed, trying to find that comfortable, you know, balance between pushing hard and still feeling, yes, still feeling relaxed. And then, yeah, I think it, yeah. In races, I was, I used to do a lot of mental arithmetic and trying to get my face. But now I don't, now I actually try to stop myself from doing that because I think when you start focusing on that, you slow down. - Because it gets so hard. The further you run, the harder mess is. It's, I've just got it done. - Yeah, it's my point of trying. Is it, you say, just get it wrong anyway? But yeah, so now, yeah, I'm trying to be more focused and not distract myself, I guess, trying to be present in the race and try and keep pushing and that sort of thing. Yeah, I probably don't think about much, to be honest. - Excellent, well, that means you're probably being more present anyway, rather than, you know, ruminating that we touched on that before we hit record. But yeah, so you're not allowing those things to jump into your brain and, yeah. It would be like e-worms. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Instead of being present, which is great, really, I think. - Okay. - Can you, well, I wanted to ask because I know, it's a tricky question only because you're not running as much as you used to right now because you're coming from your injury. But how do you fit it all in? Like you're now, so you're a doctor, you're a mum of a little person and you're quite a competitive runner. So it's quite important that, you know, how do you fit it all in and what motivates you to get out the door in those days? You don't want to get out that, yeah. - Yeah, I guess, yeah. So fitting in, so I guess, so Matilda is 13 months old and I went back to work when she was nine months. And that, so before that, I was on maternity leave. And it's still tricky because, you know, obviously you need someone to be working with her. So I had to, you know, try and squeeze rums in before and after my husband, you know, was going to work. And that sort of thing that worked, I guess, that was, yeah, kind of falling into more of a routine. I guess, yeah, as I say, learning to love early morning runs. So, you know, running in the morning. And then, as we say, having those, in that regular appointment with mum to look after Matilda on a Tuesday, which is fantastic, I think, I think. - Because I've always been a runner and running has always been something that has been such a high priority in my, you know, listening to things that has to get done each day, it's as a household, like my husband respects. But it's not something that's negotiable for me, it's something that has to happen. - Yeah, so I think, you know, we, you know, obviously, you know, we sit down and, you know, each night we work out, you know, make sure we know who's going to run and what time and, you know, that it's going to fit in. And I think he's probably been more laughing days ago that I'm generally talking at the start of the week and if you need to make sure, you know, I've got a plan for when he wants to run and when I want to run and go to work. And yeah, you just make it work. - Yeah, it's kind of a motivation point of view, I guess. I think it's just, yeah, like, I mean, the tricky thing, as I say, I'm not necessarily, you know, a natural morning runner, so sometimes that's the hard bit of getting up and just wanting to get me out the door, especially when you've had a sleepless night. But I think it's just, I just know, if I don't do it now, I'm not going to get a chance to do it and I just know how awful I feel if I don't do it and that's just enough to... - That's enough. - And get me going. - Yeah, we've even had people say, you know, they'll go to bed, like, especially the early morning peep, the ones who don't like early morning, they'll go to bed in their running clothes. (laughs) - Oh my God, really? (laughs) - That's great. - Yeah, I hope someone said that one. - Okay. - I was like... - Yeah, I haven't gone that far. I do always make sure I've got my running gear, you know, out on the ground, ready to go. I don't have to be, you know. - You're putting your hand in the dark, trying to find you in the morning, that's what I think. - Yeah, that makes life so much easier. - Yeah. (laughs) - If, when you reflect, if you hadn't become a runner, even at that early age, and this is probably a really tricky question for you, what do you think your life would be missing? Like, what's it giving your life? Like, if you hadn't chosen running as your sport, or it's chosen, chose you by the sound of it? - Yeah, yeah. (laughs) I mean, I guess there's two ways of looking, like, if I hadn't, if I didn't have sport at all, I don't know, or if I had gone into some other sport, I think, I think any other sport, if you were committed and, you know, you'd get the same benefits from it, it would probably be the same, but I think if I wasn't doing any sport, I don't know, it just gives, it's, you know, that purpose. - It's a purpose that's not, you know, not work. - Yeah. - And not family? - Yeah, and not family. - Not that there's anything wrong with either of those. You've got all of them. - No, it's just a different thing, but feels you in a different way. It's a passion, I guess, like, yeah. - It'd be missing that. - It's hard to know, I can't imagine. - I know. - Running. I really, I really can't, and, you know, I guess that's the thing with this injury. You know, there's made a good talk about, or, you know, you can go get a fix, you ain't got to run the law, and I'm like, "I just can't." - I just live in the never-same-never camp. I've always lived in the never-same-never camp. Like, there's always ways. There's always something, I don't know. People climb mountains with one arm. I'm sure I've seen that kid, some guy who managed to climb an Everest or something with that, and then I watched a movie the other day, and they had a blind guy just still rock climbing. You know, you just think. - Wow. - What are you doing? - Yeah. - She's crazy. - Yeah. - So, you just start. - Yeah, go away the way. - Yes, exactly. I'm rooting for you. (laughs) - Okay. - In a minute, I'm going to ask you some awesome tips for people, for beginner runners, I always say, but as we've said, I'm not sure how many beginners listen to the podcast, but for some tips for runners. But before I do, is there anything about running in general that you want to talk about before we get onto the tips? That we haven't tapped you already. - Yeah. I guess, it's interesting with the running and mental health, I think, because it is such, you know, we know exercise of any sort, but running in particular, you know, such a valuable tool for, you know, improving wellbeing and mental health. But I think it's interesting when, you know, when someone laughs, like me, that's a little bit of a type of personality. (laughs) - Maybe. - It's the thinking thing, you know, I just, I know it's so good for me when I'm able to run, but it's so damaging when I can't. I have to, you know, remind myself that I need to have other, you know, cool little kid, I guess, other outlets. So that, you know, if running is, you know, for the background of a period of time, that's, you know, I'm not gonna fall on hate. (laughs) - Yeah. - Which, yeah, I think we can't just, yeah, I do have a tendency to rely on it, you know, as my number one tool. And then you can use a fantastic tool, kind of, you know, does gives you so many benefits. It's stress management and you feel so much better. - Yeah. - Yeah, well, those are the things that, yes, I can only feel something after (laughs) you have to sit back and think, what else can we do? What else can I do that will kill some of those holes? - Yeah. Yeah. Which is where you're at at the moment, which is... - Yeah. (laughs) - Tricky. But, yeah, like I said, we're, I never say never, and we are, and you are still running anyway, so... (laughs) - Well, you went to the, to the surgeon says stay. (laughs) What are you doing? (laughs) - You're gonna be water running. You've got a water running belt? - I actually do, yes. - I've got one somewhere too. - Yeah, yeah. - Almost never used it, is it? - I'll remove it. - It's funny. - Yeah, I haven't used it for a long time. I used to get a lot of work. I do, I can cycle on crossroad and other things. So, I should be, I should be thankful that the injury hasn't stopped me from doing everything. - Well, those are the things that... - Yeah. - It's just not the same. - It's just not the same. (laughs) - Stop saying that. Okay, some tips for, I was gonna say beginner runners again, 'cause that's a habit. I have, but some running tips that you'd like to share with people would be amazing. - Yeah, I think it's probably a tip for beginner then, for more people's runners, but I think just remembering to respect how much load running puts on your body, and not to be mindful of your load management, I guess. So, we begin our runners, so tempting to jump in and start doing things really quickly, and it's just a recipe for ending up. Injured and having to take time off. So, I think just remembering that, yes, even though it feels good, it is actually quite hard on your body. You have to give your body time to recover. You have to be sensible in how much you do. And if you're unsure, you know, reaching out and get seeking the guidance of a coach or a physio that can find a body or an exercise physiologist or somebody like that, who knows, who knows, and who's experienced. Yeah, because it's, you know, how to support it is when you, you know, you'd just be like, you're making progress and then something's gonna take time off. So, slow and steady is definitely wins the race when it comes to running. - 10% rule. - Yeah, well, yeah, and even, I don't think myself at the 10% rule is probably too generous. I think that, you know, you're sometimes, even that's too much for a beginner running, but you know, just slow down, allow you body to adapt to what you're asking about. - Do you think that's finding a way to be able to really be in touch with your body? Like that, because we are so disconnected these days, because we're so connected to devices and whatever else. Yeah, like when you are a little bit more connected, then you can tell, like you just said, you could tell that actually 10% is a bit too much for me at the moment in this period that I'm in at the moment of the season. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, I guess in some ways, I'm trying to, we'll begin a run, I was trying to avoid them having to go through the learning process, but everyone else has gone through it, you've gone too much and got into it. - Learn from my mistakes. - Learn from my mistakes. - Help them, they do. - And avoid them for yourself. - Exactly. - Yeah, 'cause I think it's a tricky thing, especially if you, I mean, even if you aren't, as I say, experienced, I think knowing, trying to find that balance would be a very tricky thing. - Funny story, my daughter, who she moved to Melbourne 29 last year and decided to get fit, she hadn't run since, you know, since running club. So since London's been running club, since she was about 16 or something. So she'd put on a bit of it. Anyway, she lost 30 kilos, she got quite fit, she decided to run, she saw that I was doing the 100, she goes, well, I might come and do the 50, I'm not just gonna do a marathon. So she spent, she asked one of my friends what she should do and they just said, "Just keep increasing by 10%. So she was going to the gym a lot and she was doing." So she was quite strong. And the funny bit of the story she rang me and said, "I'm up to like 38 now and the 50 Ks isn't for like, "I don't know, a month or two months or something." She's like, "Is that good or something like that? "That's great Nick, but you can stop increasing at 10." It's like, she was just gonna keep increasing. Like any minute now you're gonna be, you will have run your 50 Ks and you won't even. And so that was quite funny. Anyway, that not learning when to stop. She did the 50 K fine. I think, in fact, she was, I think she was third in her age group. Yeah. Amazing. There you go. Yeah, anyway. 'Cause she's so strong. Now she's injured and still running crazy. So she's got the bug in it, that bug didn't stop. And we're like, "You should stop and stop. "Now let yourself recover then." She's not. Anyway, I hijacked your tips. That's any more tips for us? Oh, I think finding life-minded people to run leads is also lovely. I mean, I must admit, I do a lot of running on my own. But I could get as a beginner. It's been really lovely to find a group and run with them. And it's really motivating if you've got, you know, you know, you're meeting someone for a run on a rainy morning. It might be a best way to encourage you to get out the door. Absolutely. And, you know, we're lucky with, you know, there's a running boom at the moment. There's so many more people running in as well. It's crazy out and about, which is, yeah, great to see. I love it. Like, in 2004, you probably don't know this, but I wrote a book about running. God run forever. But nobody, like, runners didn't buy stuff then, apart from running shoes. Whereas now, like, yeah, it's how much you, you could spend a fortune on running if you chose to. You don't need to, by the way. But you could. I'm going to say, it's so much out there, I understand. Yeah, just because it is, you know, it's such a boom. I think even before COVID, it was, it was booming. But then with COVID, it just exponentially exploded. Definitely, yeah. Yeah, I think, yeah. And I was in Melbourne throughout October. Now, it's suffering in the lockdown to go over and off. We are just remember feeling so lucky that I was a runner. Thinking about, yes, one of the few things that we could still do. And, you know, really wasn't impacted too significantly at all, which was, I mean, apart from racing. But we can still train, and that's what we love doing. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. All right, any more tips? I do keep interrupting with your tips, which is very, very, very different. I think. Yeah, I think, I mean, probably things like, it's all in the same vein of not getting carried away, I guess. You know, if you don't want to travel, I don't feel like you can just start. And, you know, just because somebody else is running a kilometre of the week, or doing these other sessions, doesn't mean that's what you need to be doing. I mean, yeah, yeah. Just take it so I'm studying LA, body to adapt. And, you know, it doesn't, you don't have to run fast. You can just run slowly. And, you don't have to be paying for it. You have to give me no more. That's right, at least you're injured. Oh, we talked about the injury again. That's not good. All right, Karina, it has been an absolute delight to get to know you some more. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for sharing all that wisdom. And I know that, you know, you've just lived and breathed running your entire life. So, you know, you just have so much to share. If anybody, so you are coaching out. Did you just say you've got some people? Yeah, yeah, I do coach through run to PD. And I must admit, I'm a bit time poor at the moment. I'm not taking on too many people, but it is, yeah. If anyone's looking for an online coach, run to PD is great. I will put that in the show, I'll put it over there. They may not be able to get you, but they might be able to get someone else. Yeah, because you're a busy lady. All right, thank you so much. Don't jump off straight away, but again, a massive thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing. It's been amazing. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to the FitMind FitBody podcast. I'd love to talk to you about your running journey. Send me a message on Facebook or on the website, and let's do it. I also wanted to let you know that I've created an email list so you won't miss any podcast episodes. You'll find details in the show notes and on the FitMind FitBody website, along with a bunch of resources on mindful running. They'll help you to get and stay mentally and physically fit. And I'll see you there. Plus, I'll be back here in your podcast player a few times a week. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. And before you go, I'd really appreciate it if you would leave a review. It'll help more people to find the podcast and get inspired to start running and ultimately to improve their life. See you soon. (upbeat music) You [BLANK_AUDIO]
